2008 Game Thread: Cavs at Knicks

*Sigh* wish I could watch the Pistons/Celtics game. Too bad the ESPN game is Suns/Nuggets. Does anyone else think Phoenix will be lucky if they make it out of the second round?

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Mike Kurylo

Mike Kurylo is the founder and editor of KnickerBlogger.net. His book on the 2012 Knicks, "We’ll Always Have Linsanity," is on sale now. Follow him on twitter (@KnickerBlogger).

84 thoughts to “2008 Game Thread: Cavs at Knicks”

  1. Phoenix and Dallas both, yeah. either one of those could draw the Spurs in the first round, and both seem to be disintegrating after their recent moves (Phoenix much more, at least Dallas’ losses have all been to very good teams on the road).

    how does Mr. Knickerblogger himself not have League Pass?

  2. jon – Unfortunately it’s a bit out of my budget, although I’ve seriously considered getting it in the past. Additionally it’d probably hurt relations with Ms. KnickerBlogger as I’d want to watch NBA games every night of the week.

  3. 3 mins into the second quarter and Eddy Curry has more rebounds than David Lee… seeing as he only has 2 rebounds, this looks bad for the knicks

  4. if it helps, Mike, my cable company spaces out the billing over four months. I’m a late night guy, so the West Coast games are essential (plus I love the run and gun teams like GS). my wife wasn’t keen about the incessant hoops, but she’s learned to live with it. :)

    so, Renaldo Balkman is now our fourth-string SF. words escape me.

  5. Whattt Randolph Morris got some playing time?
    He has more boards in 5 min than Curry has in 12.

  6. While it is redonkulous that Balkman is being shafted like this, I like Chandler getting minutes.

  7. sure, I’ve been calling for Chandler to get minutes for months. why this costs Balkman his time instead of Q or Jeffries is beyond me.

    that 3 to beat the buzzer was insane. MVP! MVP! MVP!

  8. Balkman supposedly has had “back spasms” for the last few games thats why hes been out

  9. Balkman supposedly has had “back spasms” for the last few games thats why hes been out

  10. Balkman supposedly has had “back spasms” for the last few games thats why hes been out

  11. I’m loving Isiah playing Chandler over Q. How much longer is Q’s contract?

  12. we got all these young guys that need development, why not keep playing them through the rest of the season.
    Screw the big contract players… i just want to see some hope for the future.

  13. chandler — a pass? didn’t think he had it in him. too bad lee couldn’t finish the give and go.

  14. chandler looking pretty solid.

    nice to see morris get some minutes. he looks like hes got some moves, but seems to have heavy feet and deliberate motions.

  15. I’d given up on the Knicks, but I’m working late and there’s nothing else on the tube. The young guys are playing!!! There’s now a reason for me to tune in. Chandler and Morris should start for awhile.

  16. LBJ is really the next Jordan. You play 22 seconds of good D, and he rips your heart out with a 3.


  17. can’t blame chandler on the 2nd three. that’s the deepest shot on the floor. you have to make lebron hit that. i preferred doubling the ball out of his hand. that’s the right move. they got wally to miss a shot, just didn’t get the board.

  18. this is a perfect knicks game. exciting for almost the whole game yet we still get the loss. i <3 ping pong balls.

  19. Nate’s going to get dogged for swatting that three away from Damon Jones. I actually don’t mind that play at that point in the game. It’s one thing for James to show off. It’s another for Damon Jones to take that kind of shot at that point in the game.

  20. The real pisser is that Cleveland got few really good looks from the floor in the last 3-4 minutes. They hit a lot of bad shots. Different than the NO game, where Chris Paul just did whatever he wanted.

  21. how is balkman the fourth string SF? he should be starting, geting like 25 minutes a game, at least. chandler should get rest, or MAYBE Q. balkman is one of my fav knicks last year when i saw him play. it was great seeing some of his dunks and hustle plays. now i’ve seen him play twice all season. i know it’s more then that, but i dont see every game.

  22. “They should just send 3 guys at Lebron every time. No one else can hit a shot.”

    This is all I thought during the whole game. Why not put everyone on him Verejao (sp?) couldn’t hit the side of a barn, and he plays next to Wallace!

    But it was good to see Chandler get minutes. From where I sat, he looked like the most active Knick (and actually the smartest on most plays.) Honestly, we couldn’t have been in it if Jamal and Nate weren’t hitting jumpers. But I’ve got to say Eddy looked pretty solid against a skinny Cleveland frontcourt. And Morris had some flashes! Glad he’s getting some tick. The bad news is he looks like more of a PF to me than a center, but maybe he can hit the gym and adjust. While Crawford is trying his hardest, he really shouldn’t have to bring the ball up 80% of the time. Nate needs to learn the pg position or get out because he’s shhhhhort! But he had some good looks too.

    LBJ for MVP? You know, he’s not flashy like Kobe. His drives aren’t as pretty, but he finds the best area and hits it- time and time again. As we saw. What a stud. Kobe and LeBron are neck and neck right now.

    Killing the Knicks: Jeffries and Q.

    I don’t know about Balkman’s back or whatever, but he was jumping around during intros like a cheerleader.

    Even though I’m high on the youngsters after tonights game, it’s obvious the loss comes down to late game coaching! The D just is not there. How can you not double Lebron!? Make anyone else beat you. Zeke man, you got to step aside…

  23. ben bow,

    Did you not hear about Balkman? Poster sean broke the news that Balkman has back spasms,

    and back spasms,

    and back spasms.

    Why did it take 40 Ls before we got to see what Morris and Chandler can do? I like Chandler, he sure isnt shy on the trigger. Just wait until he stops holding back.

    I hope Thomas isnt playing these guys in hopes that Dolan will see that the young players he brought in are a sign that he should be brought back. The fact that he failed to get Robinson, Lee, Chandler, Balkman, and Morris consistent minutes over the last 25 games shows why he should not be back.

    Once again we had no way to score in the forth other than Crawford pull ups. A good point is what we need to create offense in these situations. Plus a consistent post scorer.

    back spasms.

  24. so, anyone want to guess who the last NBA player to get 50 points and 10 assists in a regular season game was?

    wait for it…

    wait for it…

    wait for it…

    yes, the Nets’ own Stephon Marbury in 2001.

  25. But who is the last player to drop 50 on the Knicks?

    I can’t remember! Someone help me!!

  26. Oh, by the by, regarding any conspiracy theories re: Lebron and the Knicks in the future, you can’t help beat Lebron’s comments after the game – they were practically, “Please, I want to play for New York so badly.”

  27. How great is Q-Rich’s line last night:

    21 minutes: 0-4, 1 reb, 1 asst, 2 TOs, 5 fouls, and zero points.

    Chandler and Morris look good enough to watch every night. Let’s hope that Q gets a much needed holiday. Who knows, that 20th win could be just around the corner.

  28. Ping Pong Balls…..we need to get a second 1st round pickin this draft…that should come to us if we trade Z-Bo….then we just develop these kids. Things will be fun to watch from there on . I just hope Morris doenst walk after this season. Zeke is a joke for not playing these guys earlier.Lebron will be in Brooklyn…mark my words.

  29. Chandler looked good last night, didnt he?

    All we need is a GM who can cut the dead weight contracts off our roster and a Coach to give these young guys some minutes!

    i wouldnt mind having JVG back, there i said it.

  30. I took a close look at the remaining schedule and I am confident that we will lose no fewer than 57 games. We have an excellent shot at hitting 60 Ls, if Memphis and Minny don’t tank their games against us. I think 60 loses would be enough to secure a top three pick. Miami will probably have 65 and Minny 62. C’mon ping pong balls.

    Also 60 ls would result in a franchise low for Ws (22) and it would eclipse the Larry Brown season. If Dolan does not fire Isiah after 60 losses, then Isiah cannot be fired.

  31. “I just saw on 82games that Crawford is shooting .253 overall and .222 on 3s in “clutch” situations…

    I’m going to go out on a limb and say that those numbers coupled with him as the primary if not sole option is directly related to the inability to close out much less stay close in the last five minutes.

  32. last person to drop 50 on the knicks in MSG was Richard Hamiltion in 2006, Jordan did it twice , once in 95 and once in 86.
    3 players, 4 times over the last 25 years.

  33. We need Derrick Rose. Now. He’s Wade 2.0 and would do wonders for this team.

    Trade up at all costs if we are below 2 or 3 in the draft order. Get some team above us that needs interior scoring to take Randolph. Sonics are probably the best bet, though we’d have to take back one of their crappy big men with 2 years left on a bad contract (he’ll chill on the bench with Jerome). Memphis needs him, but again, they have salary issues (we’d probably have to take Cardinal).

    It’s worth it for this guy.

  34. Yes, Billy, you are correct…however the term “at all costs” sort of looses its meaning when you have such little of value

  35. Please, not the dreaded “looses.” I can’t take it. Why oh why do so many in this culture not know how to spell one of the most common words in the language, especially if you’re a sports fan?

    It’s “lose”!


  36. Hey, I’m with you w/r/t the abominable state of spelling/grammar in this country, but that could EASILY be a type-o. Calm down, tiger.

  37. heh.

    just to go back to Mike’s original post:

    “Does anyone else think Phoenix will be lucky if they make it out of the second round?”

    I misread this last night, I think they’ll be lucky to make it out of the first round. I’d be seriously frustrated if I were a Suns fan, they’ve really screwed that team up and probably killed any window they had for a title.

  38. billy,

    trading up to get derrick rose may mean parting with david lee. are you willing to do that? i am (bring the flaming on).

  39. The Suns thing is hilarious because it is not even a case of second-guessing a trade. Everyone was ripping the trade the moment it was even rumored!

  40. I probably wouldn’t be willing to trade David Lee to get Derrick Rose, but I wouldn’t be adamant against it.

  41. if you’re going to move Lee, Rose needs to be a superstar along the lines of Chris Paul and Deron Williams. I’ve only watched them sporadically, but I’m not sure he’s on that level.

    in other collegiate stud news, I’ve said before here that I dislike almost all white American players, but I think if NY somehow ended up with Kevin Love, I’d have a crush on him like Owen has on D-Lee. I really like Collison also, although I know the consensus is now that Westbrook is better.

  42. if we dont get a top-2 pick, id see if we could trade down for 2 late lottery picks like 9 and 15. with those picks, most draft boards are projecting dj augustin (or darren collison) and kevin love to still be available. i would be extremely happy with both of those players.

  43. I just checked NBADraft.net and they have us taking DeAndre Jordan at no.5…does anyone know much about this kid? I’m admittedly not a big fan of college hoops, so I’ve never seen Texas A&M play.

    Any ideas?

  44. “I’ve said before here that I dislike almost all white American players, but I think if NY somehow ended up with Kevin Love, I’d have a crush on him like Owen has on D-Lee.”

    So the Knicks are going to be Indiana?

  45. Amazing it took this long for Morris and Chandler to get minutes.

    That might have been fun to watch…except.
    I have been just bashing Crawford all year long…and it is totally justified. The guy is a first option on a horrible team, and a 6th or 7th man on a good team.
    There was a reason the Bulls didn’t get anywhere with him.
    He’s a 41 percent shooter taking 20 shots a game.

  46. JA –

    I LOVE Darren Collison but don’t know if he can score enough to stay in the league, but his defense should keep him around.

    I had to watch Kevin Love a couple games before I got the hype. He doesn’t have much of an upper body, but he has a very strong base. He doesn’t get pushed around. He gets tough rebounds, and wow what a passer. I don’t know that he has the athleticism to warrant a lottery pick, but from the neck up he’s a phenomenal player.

  47. What is the restriction for our lottery pick this year?

    If the rule is you can’t trade lottery picks in consecutive years, can we still trade fo r another lottery pick?

  48. “I had to watch Kevin Love a couple games before I got the hype. He doesn’t have much of an upper body, but he has a very strong base. He doesn’t get pushed around. He gets tough rebounds, and wow what a passer. I don’t know that he has the athleticism to warrant a lottery pick, but from the neck up he’s a phenomenal player.”

    he shoots 3s too, and his outlet passes are incredible.

  49. As to earlier, if you do not have a girlfriend who is willing, league pass is the ultimate nightmare, if you do, league pass is the greatest thing in the world to spend 189 dollars on, ive had it the last 3 years and could not imagine not having it.

  50. Mase,

    The following is a bit confusing but I tried to explain it as best as I am able.

    The rule about trading first round draft picks is very simple: A team cannot create a situation where it will be without a first round pick in two consecutive years. Seems easy enough, but it can get tricky when you trade picks and have conditional picks floating around. As I try to explain herein.

    NY was able to trade a 2006 first rounder to the Bulls then swap a 2007 first rounder because that situation did not create a situation in which the Knicks did not make a first round pick in two consecutive years. The Knicks still had a first round pick in 2007 so they did not violate the rule.

    Actually, under those rules, the Knicks could have traded their 2007 pick because they owned the Spurs’ 2006 first round pick. This pick was vested upon the Spurs clenching a playoff spot in 2006, because the pick was top 10 protected. Since the Knicks would have had the Spurs first rounder in 2006, they could have traded the 2007 Chicago pick without violating league rules.

    Under the rules the Knicks can trade the 2008 pick(becuase they made a 2007 pick) but not until they are mathmatically eliminated from finishing with a top 7 record. This is because the Jazz own the Knicks’ 2008 first round draft pick if it is pick 24-30. Ny cant trade a pick until it is vested. The Knicks 2008 pick becomes vested when the Knicks have a record that locks them into picks 1-23. Once the pick is vested, Utah has no claim to the pick and NY may do with it what they please, subject to standard trade rules.

    A similar situation is present with the NY 2009 first round pick. The Knicks cannot trade that pick until it becomes vested. The pick is vested when the Knicks are mathmatically eliminated from a record in the top 8 of the NBA. Utah owns the NY pick if it is pick 23-30. Once NY is locked into a pick 1-22 the pick is vest. However, if this event occurs, NY CANNOT trade this pick away without first securing another 2009 pick or a 2010 pick because Utah will own NY’s 2010 pick without restriction. Simply put, once the 2009 pick vests with NY, the NY 2010 pick vests with Utah. If NY does not make a 2009 first round pick, lets say because they trade the pick, then they will be in violation of NBA rules because they will have no first round pick in 2010. The only way to trade the 2009 pick is to first secure either another 2009 first round pick, or a 2010 first round pick.

    In a way, the Marbury deal is a good thing because it forces the Knicks to secure additional first round picks in 2009 or 2010 before they can even think about trading the 2009 pick. The Knicks current mess is due to poor draft management under Laden (and to some extent Thomas for not securing a top 3 protection on the 2006 pick) and poor cap management under Thomas. At the least, Ny must make good decisions with the 2008 and 2009 draft becuase they almost certaintly will not have thier own pick in 2010.


  51. Tommy B,

    I think you got something wrong partner. You said the Knicks could have traded the 2007 Bulls pick since they made a 1st round pick in 2006, but you forgot what that would do to the 2008 pick. The Knicks could not have traded the 2007 1st round pick from Chicago until their own 2008 1st round pick became “vested”. Are you an attorney? Only lawywers use that term.

    If the Knicks did not make a 2007 1st round pick, they could have gone two consecutive years without a pick because there was a chance that the 2008 pick would go to the Jazz. So they HAD to make a pick in 2007 since they did not have a vested 2008 pick.

  52. “Does anyone else think Phoenix will be lucky if they make it out of the second round?”

    It’s amazing how bad Phoenix looks on the floor. Completely depends on who they draw but if they make it past the first, won’t make it past the second.

    Maybe the worst trade of the last five years.

  53. villainx,


    Mr. Black,

    You are correct about NY trading the 2007 pick before the 2008 pick vests. I told you this could get confusing.

    One other point to note about the first round pick trading rules is that the rules do not require that you sign a first round pick. You ever notice that on draft day team A often makes a pick for team B then trades the pick to team B? Have you ever asked why they did that instead of just trading the pick? Part of it is because unless you are picking number 1, you don’t know who will be available until you make the pick. But the real reason is teams want to get credit for making a first round pick that year.

    NBA draft rules only prohibit a team from going two consecutive years without MAKING a pick. If the team makes the pick then trades it, the team still gets credit for making a first round pick. Teams do it this way to give themselves greater flexability with the following year’s draft. Because the following year you may need to trade your first rounder to get the player you need for your playoff run (as Dallas did this year).

    The Knicks could make the 2008 or 2009 pick then immediately trade the pick without violating NBA rules.

    So the simplest way to state the first round pick rule: No team may go two consecutive years without making a first round draft selection. What they do after they make the pick is their concern.

  54. From Kevin Hench of Foxsports.com:

    “As the Knicks ran their latest losing streak to four games (by a combined 58 points), there were lots of guys in the running for their weekly entry on the Hit List. But Q pulled away on Wednesday night with a performance for the ages that earned him his second mention in three weeks.

    While the other team’s small forward (a guy by the name of LeBron) was going for 50 points, 10 assists and 8 rebounds, Richardson turned in 21 of the most invisible minutes of the season. He went scoreless, missing all four of his shots, had one rebound, one assist and two turnovers.

    He is now shooting 35.6 percent from the field and 64.5 percent from the line. There is no small forward in the D-League that could be worse than this guy.”

  55. jon abbey,

    I live in Washington, DC and I could not agree more. Caron for Kwame has turned out to be worst deal I have seen in a long time. It is worse than the Shaq deal by far because no matter what Shaq is, he at least was a great player. Kwame has never been great at anything, there was never reason to think he every would be great. Even if you didnt know Butler was going to be an All-Star, you knew he was doing more than Kwame. If we knew the Lakers wanted junk for Butler, we could have sent them Tim Thomas for Butler. Soft as Tim is, he is still better than Kwame by a mile. That would have kept us out of the Curry deal and then we never would have got Richardson since the SF position was covered by Butler.


    When players pose for their player stat site photos, they should be made to make several different faces. The picture on the site should correspond to the the performance of the player. Lebron and Kobe are allowed to have big smiles. Richardson should have his head down with his face in his palms. Really, should he be smiling with those stats! Look at him!

  56. Man, I bet the Pacers are pissed that they got David Harrison off the marijuana, as the dude is a hot head now.

    Also, Jason Kidd – dude, you asked to be traded, how is that not “quitting on the team”? I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, but come on, man, just own it.

  57. “Also, Jason Kidd – dude, you asked to be traded, how is that not “quitting on the team”? I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, but come on, man, just own it.”

    Denver’s remaining schedule is decidedly tougher than Dallas’, so I don’t think it’s very likely, but I’m rooting hard for Dallas to miss the playoffs entirely. Nowitzki has also started thugging out in the last few weeks, the Kirilenko play was one in a series of way too hard fouls.

  58. You could argue the Kwame’s contract yielded Gasol though. That doesn’t make Kwame for Caron a shrewd move but it’s more along the lines of the Malik Rose for Nazr Mohammed trade; Malik was shorter, older and statistically (and overall) ostensibly inferior but I’ll never complain b/c we got D Lee out of it!

  59. Watching Usc play Stanford. Gus is going nuts talking about Mayo, comparing him to a young Stephon Marbury at Georgia Tech…

    These Lopez twins look athletic enough for the NBA, especially Brook…

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