Knicks Morning News (2018.08.08)

@1 way to take my comment out if context, a truly scumbag thing to do.
I was referring to his part in the war on drugs, and he was a true scumbag in that regard. He was also a scumbag for executing American citizens and using a kill list, where he was the sole decider on who was getting droned that day.

Fuck you for calling me a racist.

There is a new form of bigotry: Conservatives are calling Liberals ugly names and Liberals calling Conservative ugly names. The hatred has gotten pretty intense. The “scumbag” comment about Obama is an example. I have heard, first hand, the hatred that Zanzibar cites. The direct derogatory statements that I heard about Obama (I won’t repeat them here) were very clear. One of the same people that made those comments told me, “I hate that murderous bitch Clinton” and as a follow-up called her a “murderer”. When pressed, cited Vince Foster, who committed suicide. This person fed into the conspiracy theories. And who spread them? Donald Trump.

I was criticized previously for being “hypersensitive” about racism. My only response to that is to say that I’m in a minority in my social circles as not being a pure conservative. I witness overt, unfiltered prejudice all the time. Bigotry is alive and well and all it needed to bloom again was a feeling that it’s alright to be prejudiced. Our president is working hard to erase the stigma of bigotry. Charlottesville, Portland and the comments about LeBron and Lemon are clearly efforts to legitimize hatred. So when I say that I hate Trump it’s because of direct actions he is taking to turn us all against each other. 2for18’s comment about Obama is similar to the comment about Hilary. It is baseless and just blind hatred. Here’s a nice example of legitimized hatred of Democrats. I’m sure that there are similar Yahoos on the far left.

Time out, guys. The level of discourse is deteriorating quickly.

Can we all agree that all of these people trying to get rid of uber are scumbags?

My pal that drives a medallion cab in NYC would vehemently disagree with that. And as the son of holocaust survivors, I am very careful about who I call a Nazi and unfortunately, I find that the term is not misused much these days.

Well then let’s make a list of things we can’t talk about and stick to it, because if someone references me in a post I’m going to respond.

We’re the Washington Generals, or Generic-Mike-Tyson-opponent-about-to-get-his-head-knocked-off-for-our-amusement, of the NBA.

2FOR18, you posted a bunch of quotes from Democrats…without saying anything about why they’re lies.

It’s true that middle-class and below individuals get a small tax cut (I get $9 extra per week), but it expires after 10 years at which point the loss of the SALT deduction, and likely forthcoming assault on Medicare/Medicaid/Social Security, will ravage the middle-class and below. So yeah, there is absolutely a middle-class tax hike right smack in the middle of this god awful piece of legislation. But hey, I guess it’s worth it for me to pay more so Jeff Bezos can buy up what little parts of this country he doesn’t yet own.

2FOR18, you posted a bunch of quotes from Democrats…without saying anything about why they’re lies.

It’s true that middle-class and below individuals get a small tax cut

smh

I think the NBA is setting up some nice drama if KP is indeed back on Christmas Day. In his first game back, he’s on national television against the other European superstar (sorry Jowles but Jokic doesn’t resonate with fans the way Giannis and KP do) and the team that he tore his ACL against.

That, or they just wanna see Giannis jump over TH2 again.

I was looking forward to watching Zhaire Smith play. Bummed that he might not be back for awhile.

KP coming back anytime before we’ve secured 50 losses would be a failure of a season to me.

Maybe KP *contributes* to the losing effort! There is no guarantee he will be any good (or bad!) whenever he comes back.

KP is a real dilemma. Will he bolt at the first opportunity? How good is he? Should the Knicks build around an un-proven player who has shown clear signs of diva-like behavior without actually delivering the goods?

As for the Christmas game. I’m setting the line at Milwaukee by 12. KP should come back November 2019. I want him to take the year off, and work on his core and endurance. I don’t need him coming back to a losing team and yes, let’s finally grab one of those top-5 ping-pong balls.

Newly muscled up Kristaps rejecting Giannis’ dunk attempt by palming the ball and causing Giannis to fall backwards would be the logical next step in the script.

@17

Congratulations, now you’ve found two black men who think the same way!

Now, if you really care about this instead of just proving your point, go read some opinions that disagree with your own preconceived ideas. Then we can talk.

I was reading a ‘way too early’ 2019 mock today and realised that on the basis of Lee-season projections the Celtics are getting two more top 10 picks, one very high, in 2019.

Imagine how stoked we’d be with a core of Tatum, brown and two high forthcoming picks right now. Then factor in that the Celtics also have three veteran all stars and are likely going to the finals this year. Wow.

The nets trade was an all time terrible one but even then you have to credit Ainge with how he’s maxed it out – they could contend for a decade, no problems.

If that black man isn’t you, then I recommend you stop posting on this subject all together.

Why?

I was reading a ‘way too early’ 2019 mock today

As a Knicks fan, it’s never too early. I’ve been looking at next year’s class since this past draft ended. 5 very intriguing possible studs to look forward to watching this season. Duke will be must see TV with 3 of them, and Oregon, with Bol Bol, will provide the late night entertainment.

@GoNY, thanks, I think.

No, ProjectKnicks, I don’t have the magical solution for everything and nor do you do. I am white. It’s not my experience and it’s not my place to give them solutions.

What I can do and what I do is think interseccionally and try to help with their struggle as much as I can with my experiences as a gay man.

What I’ve been trying to tell you is that you are really disrespecting the history and the struggles of a group like the African Americans in the USA by thinking you, a white man I assume, have the magical solution.

I told you what my solution is and you thoroughly ignored it: listen to the people who actually have a say on the matter. If you think that means googling one more article that supports your preconceived position, then this discussion is completely useless.

Um, that op-ed was written in 2001…that was 17 years ago. A LOT has changed since then most notably the financial collapse of 2008, which affected minorities and especially African Americans far worse than it did white people. Also, winter of 2001 was just mere months after 9-11. The police state and terror state was just getting started. Since then the police across the country have become more aggressive and militarized. Also, there are more private prisons now than there were back then. 2001, yes 9-11 had just happened but we also were just leaving a period of strong economic growth from the 90s. And really the economy continued to do pretty well, propped up by the housing bubble, until 2008. Things are much starker now (wages are about the same as they were in 2001 for most people).

So yeah, maybe an op-ed from 2001 isn’t the BEST example to prove your point.

Enough with politics. Its never as simple as black and white but many shades of different gray.

Considering KP is not even clear to run on his knee yet, so – I’m having trouble seeing the timetable of intermediate markers where he’s 100% and back on/or before Christmas.

I’m curious to see Burke as the number one option…with Timmy, Lee, Knox and Kanter. Offensively, there is enough talent there to lose most games by a small margin. When you swap Kanter with Robinson and bring in Frank for Timmy, then defense will lead to some offense and a ton of fun for us to watch.

KP is a baller and with today’s medical advancements, I have no doubt that he will be a top 5 player in this league year after year during his second contract. Looks like both Robinson and Knox on each side of him could become perfect complimentary players for the long haul.

Ha they all make less than Ron Baker and Lance Thomas.

That was actually my thought to!

Studies have been conducted where identical resumes were sent out, the only difference being the name on the resume. The ones with black sounding names did much worse than those with white sounding names. https://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2015/mar/15/jalen-ross/black-name-resume-50-percent-less-likely-get-respo/

We could do this all day, but I’m sure we both have better things to do.

Nowhere at any point in time have I said that racism or biases don’t exist in our society.

I am telling you that at every major corporation in NY I have ever worked for I have never seen a single occasion where I thought the most qualified person was not hired or given a promotion etc… because of skin color. NEVER, not once. Like I said previously, if anything, the bias was other way around. Companies were more reluctant to lay off minorities, older people etc.. out of fear of lawsuits. The decision making process was always a function of whatever was in the best interests of the company. The people I have worked for and with didn’t give a crap what color their employees were. They only cared about how much money they could help them make.

No general study or evidence of racism and bias “in other circumstances” is going to change “my” experience. I know what it is and I’ve never seen it.

@45

Well, There’s no way to respond to this without being aggressive so I just won’t. I’ve learned sometimes ignorance is just overwhelming and it’s better left alone. I thought you were a reub type of troll but you’re just really stupid, so it’s time for the proverbial ignore button and let’s talk basketball.

i got a slightly off topic question to ask:

how big a deal (in the world of gambling) is what oakley did?
i get it’s a possible felony…he ended up getting charged with a misdemeanor…

does it happen frequently?

is it just a matter of someone’s drunk in they’re not really paying attention to what they are doing?

is it something people do and get away with often?

i can only imagine dolan’s squeal of glee when he found out what the oakman had done…

Exactly. You shouldn’t write about what you just don’t get.

I admit to not ‘getting’ why most blacks won’t make the slightest effort to find solutions instead of playing the victim’s role in a sad merry-go-round of poverty, ignorance and violence that results is broken families, broken lives.
I do not ‘get’, either, the hostility toward people who ask for solutions instead of complaints. My guess is it’s easier to play the victim and feel powerless than actually getting off the couch and working on forging a better tomorrow. Oh, well…

Not sure whether it was blackjack or poker, but basically Oakley knew he was going to lose the hand and snuck one of his chips off the table before it could be taken. Then in another hand he knew he was going to win and snuck an additional chip onto the table to illegally increase his bet.

It was pretty petty stuff. He’s one of my favorite players (as you can tell from my username) and this is disappointing.

Oak put more money on the table after the hand of blackjack was over I think.

How does anyone think they can get away with that? Vegas is no joke when it comes to fair play and procedures.

We could do this all day, but I’m sure we both have better things to do.

Actually, no I don’t have anything better to do. In fact, there’s nothing more important at this time than standing up to outright racism or those who claim it’s not a big deal. The Germans targeted Jews as the source of Germany’s problems. The WASPs in America targeted Italians, Irish, Poles, etc as filthy immigrants. And now Trump targets blacks as dumb and lazy while Latinos are vermin infesting the nation.

I am telling you that at every major corporation in NY I have ever worked for I have never seen a single occasion where I thought the most qualified person was not hired or given a promotion etc… because of skin color. NEVER, not once.

I think it’s true that racism affecting hiring decisions in major corporations is not near so bad as smaller organizations. But did you personally screen all of the resumes to arrive at your judgement or did you just base it on the people who ended up getting positions in the companies?

Nowhere at any point in time have I said that racism or biases don’t exist in our society.

True but that’s hardly a bold statement. The sense I get from your posts is that you think it’s just not that big of a deal judging from your own experience. Sorta like when John Roberts gutted the Civil Rights Act citing times had changed and since that ruling something like 200 restrictive voting actions targeting minorities have been implemented. Oops! I tried to provide some studies that suggest it really is a big deal when a black person with the exact same resume of a white person has a significantly lower chance of getting an interview. I’m not sure that had any effect on your outlook from your response. Most people in America don’t work for the largest corporations.

I admit to not ‘getting’ why most blacks won’t make the slightest effort to find solutions instead of playing the victim’s role in a sad merry-go-round of poverty, ignorance and violence that results is broken families, broken lives.

Please stop fucking whitesplaining about what “most blacks” do and don’t do. Quite frankly you sound like a total fucking idiot.

Ibram Kendi’s Stamped from the Beginning does a good job of explaining the three types of attitudes about American race relations:

Segregation: Black people are inferior and should be kept away from white society. This is obviously a form of racism.

Assimilation: Black people are inferior to whites not because they are genetically inferior, but because they refuse to or are unable to assimilate into white society. This too is a form of racism.

Antiracist: Black people are not inferior to white people, and there are structural and legal reasons for disparities in wealth and achievement between whites and POC.

I’ll let you guess which one you are, ProjectKnicks.

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/03/black-wages-labor/521172/

Just read this and stop talking out of your ass.

I’m black and I’m thoroughly disgusted with this blog right now. Is there anyone out there moderating who can get the subject to basketball and away from this racist bullshit. Please!!!

out here in the LA area i have access to clippers and lakers games…i’ve never gotten in to watching the clippers play…not sure if it’s there uniforms, player personal – or, just the fact that they’re the clippers, yuch…

the lakers however – i did enjoy watching them when they had shaq, a lot less so when it became kobe’s team…the last few years of kobe, i had zero inclination to watch the lakers…

the last couple of years i have enjoyed watching the lakers again with some interesting young players on the team…now that lebron is joining the team – i’m not so sure that’s gonna make me want to watch them more or less…

i’ve never been a big fan of teams with one dominant ball handler…it’ll be interesting though to see if lebron actually does end up playing off the ball more this year…

@65 what do you think of enterprise zones?
It’s where you give tax breaks (predominantly property taxes) for opening a business in a depressed area. A business pays no property taxes for x number of years. Instead of having an abondoned lot or building, you have a business providing jobs, goods and services.

Lance might call LA home, but that’s a NYC move on Kanter pic.twitter.com/tRJw40LrCn— Knicks Film School (@KnickFilmSchool) August 8, 2018

Good thing that Kanter worked on his lateral movement this summer focusing on becoming a better defender.

I hear you GoNy. I let it go as long as I could. I work at a predominantly white company in the South and I come here to escape. There are other blogs where people can discuss race relations intelligently. I know I don’t have the last word, but that’s how I feel. Also, I went to Columbia. Where can I send that resume?

Woj reporting Noah is getting stretched on September 1st. I continue to see zero upside in stretching him until we get an agreement from a free agent(s).

Knick fans should stop sitting on their asses and work harder, that’s the only way to stop the merry-go-round of losing, overpaying free-agents, trading draft picks, and more losing. All you do is sit and complain and ask for the league to make rule changes. Stop being the victim! Get off the couch, Knick Fans, and forage a better future for yourself. Cheer harder and the Knicks will win, it’s the only realistic solution!

man, noah is absolutely living the life – who doesn’t want to hang out naked in santa monica…

77, – LMAO. Point taken. Its exactly what Perry is trying to change. CULTURE. They way everyone at NYK organization goes about its daily business. Phil called it a “looser mentality” but he was clueless on what to do about it.

@35 as an description of the problems of institutional racism followed by a description of the challenges faced by black Americans, that’s not bad at all, I’d say.

Where I disagree is the intimation that the power of institutional racism and the power of unhelpful cultural phenomena in black communities are both equal to one another.

As someone else said, if you understand the history of the black experience in America, it’s 400 years of horrific psychological trauma suffered by one people group. I have studied the history and I have listened to as many black voices as I can, and have included it is impossible for black people to lift themselves out of their struggles without changes to the entire system. That’s not to say that a human being should not make an effort to fulfill her responsibilities and improve her situation. But a meaningful change to the problems black people face is impossible to earn on effort alone.

What do black people need to do about the problems they face in American society? I will defer to black people themselves. I believe that if we’re going to talk about a marginalized minority, their voices need to be front and center. They should set the tone and lead the conversation. We need to listen first. I was impressed how warmly Bruno’s sharing of his experiences and struggles as a gay man was received and no one tried to negate or diminish his story. That same posture is the most appropriate one for conversations about race.

It’s not enough to put in some work to describe the issues and then conclude by saying they’re just as bad as each other, both sides make mistakes, let’s all get along and talk basketball like normal.

As humans we have capabilities of reason and moral judgment. We can compare one thing to another without declaring them two sides of the same coin.

i don’t know bruno – maybe you should just give up on trying to reference post numbers 🙂

That was pretty good 76

@82 serious question. I believe Asians are the biggest ‘victims’, for lack of a better word, of affirmative action, especially re: college admissions.
As an Asian, how do you feel about that.

Again, I know it’s hard for people around here to accept this argument but the Knicks do not want Joakim Noah in the locker room because they’re trying to rebuild the culture. I’m not sure I’d want a guy who thought it was appropriate to get naked in public on my team either.

I just hope they keep the same cap clearing energy when it’s time to trade TH2 to Sacramento.

Woj reporting Noah is getting stretched on September 1st. I continue to see zero upside in stretching him until we get an agreement from a free agent(s).

Financially, you are correct, but it does create a roster spot, which the Knicks could use to evaluate a young player with, and its nice for Noah. The roster spot is the biggest thing, but if we are planning to let him go anytime in the season, we might as well just do it now
and not have other players thinking we kept him from p,aging anywhere unnecessarily.

I do not understand why we would stretch Noah.
What I would do is start and feature him. Let him go nuts for a month. Then trade him for a bag of popcorn.

I think it’s a poor tactical move to stretch Noah. Why commit to a stretch until you need to do so?

The only nuts and bolts argument I can think of that makes any sense is that it frees up a roster spot.

I get the possible side effects of keeping him on the roster. But at this point, I don’t see anything that would merit tying up $6+ mill in cap space for two additional years just to purge his stench. There’s a lot of stupid GMs out there, you never know when some kind of package deal can be worked out.

But if Perry and Mills do decide to stretch Noah, it’s not the end of the world I guess.

In my fantasy scenario we trade KP for a top 5 pick and draft Bol Bol and Zion and sign Kyrie.

2019 starting line-up = Kyrie, Frank, Zion, Bol, MitchRob

@88 2for18

I appreciate the question, thank you.

It’s true that affirmative action adversely affects Asians, but I believe it’s the right thing to do. It’s so much harder for low-income students to succeed academically, especially if they are black or brown or Native American. I don’t believe life is an even playing field for everyone. I also believe that diversity is always a strength. Students of color that earn college admission with help from affirmative action contribute in irreplaceable ways to the flourishing of their fellow students and to the campus academic environment with their experience and cultural knowledge.

The real enemy of Asian-Americans in college admissions isn’t affirmative action in favor of black and brown students. It’s affirmative action in favor of legacy students, who are usually white. A Princeton sociology study of the top 10 ranked US schools concluded that for them, legacy status is equal to 160 more points on the SAT. Another study of the top 30 ranked schools concluded that legacy status gives an applicant up to a 45% boost over an equally qualified candidate.

There’s a simple solution to having both fair admissions standards for worthy Asian students and also affirmative action to create meaningful representation of black and brown students: Cut legacy admissions, which disproportionately favor white students that otherwise don’t meet stated admissions standards.

The conventional wisdom (one might even say “eye test”) is that maintaining a 30% legacy student quota is necessary to keep alumni donations flowing in. However, recent research seems to suggest that legacy quotas may actually have no meaningful correlation to total alumni giving. Check the Atlantic article below for more:

https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/02/when-affirmative-action-benefits-the-wealthy/553313/

My dream scenario is as follows:
-KP sits out the year and shows up next year looking like Ivan Drago.
-Ntilikina becomes a 2-way player.
-Knox wins rookie of the year.
-Robinson starts the season in the G-league and ends the season as starting center.
-Hezonia and Vonleh take to the change in scenery and become solid rotation players.
-We turn Noah, Kanter, Lee, Hardaway, Thomas and Baker into expiring contracts and future picks.
-We win 22 games and end up with a top-5 draft pick.

I can dream, can’t I?

Also, wasn’t Noah brought here FOR his locker room presence and fiery play?

@ 102 – yes he was. Then he got hurt, used steroids and got into a fight with the coach.

You just know Noah will be joining the Lakers, ugh.

Ok can some body explain to me, like I’m a 2 year old, why Shane Robinson is playing everyday?

Thank you in advance for your time.

If Noah is so cancerous for the locker room they can just ask him not to come, say he’s out of shape and needs time off with a different trainer or something.

Problem with that is you probably get the NBAPA knocking down your door.

@104 – Yeah, we all know. That was tongue-in-cheek.

Hey, I have this as the current depth chart. Am I missing someone. Thoughts?
1 Burke Mudiay Baker Allen
2 Frank CLee THJr Trier
3 Knox Hezonja Thomas
4 MRob Vonleh Hicks KP(Inj)
5 Kanter Kornet Noah

@108 – If that Shane Robinson question wasn’t rhetorical, the Yankees have an OF depth issue on their 40-man roster. With Judge and Clint both down, the bench tonight is Gregorius (SS), Hisgashioka (C) and Voit (1B). You might say “Bring up someone” but the only hitters in the minors on the 40-man roster are Tyler Wade, Ronald Torreyes and Thairo Estrada. They are all infielders. They really needed to give Didi a breather. They don’t have a day off until August 20.

They can start Gardner, Hicks and Stanton in the OF and DH their best minor league hitter, no?

It feels much safer just to nod my head and go with the flow, even when I feel internal dissent in response to what is being said.

If you had just done that in the wake of the Jeremy Lin exit, you and I could have still been friends…

I’d be willing to wager that the opening night starting line-up =
Burke
Timmy
Hezonja
Knox
Kanter

I agree this is the most likely lineup. And it’s one I would probably pick myself, absent new information. But it has Pointzz written all over it, and not much defense, if any. I fear this represents the style of player our management prefers. They mostly acquired players whose best attribute is scoring, so then the team ends up being that way too.

Re: the political dialogue, while I strenuously object to some points made in this thread (and previous ones) I wonder what purpose is served when the “pick yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd gets profanely dismissed as ignorant, racist, or both.

Sure, that’s fine, but ProjectKnicks’ comments were genuinely ignorant and offensive, and I’m not down with entertaining that bullshit in the name of “let’s understand all perspectives.” Some perspectives are not really worthy of consideration and “the problem about the blacks is that they don’t want to do anything except whine and do drugs” is one of those perspectives.

Sometimes a simple “fuck you, dude” is in order.

There’s just no downside to keeping him other than the roster spot.

There are other potential downsides. Maybe he really did become a toxic personality, and it wasn’t just that Hornacek was an idiot. (The fact that Fizdale hasn’t reached out to him, and Perry and Mills don’t want to talk about him, suggests it went deeper than Noah vs. Horny.) Maybe he won’t be satisfied playing 12 minutes a game if he’s healthy, and he’ll raise a fuss that will be bad for the morale of a team that’s trying to build a new culture in a season when they’re likely to be among the worst in the league.

Who knows how possible any of those things are, and I’d be inclined to keep him until the summer when we know what our realistic FA options are, but he could potentially cost a lot more than the roster spot.

Mozgov’s been traded like 5 times since he signed his shitty contract. If Noah can play at all you’d have to think we could deal him next year at least.

@117 & @122 fair, PK was way over the line.

I mean, at this point the media would make more of a fuss if Noah actually played minutes, it would probably be more distracting than keeping him on the bench. I think everyone expects him to be 100% done anyway, just see how Luol Deng has been reported by the media. He came out after the NBA Africa game and said he wanted to prove he can play minutes, it became a footnote, nobody cared, and he’ll stay glued to the bench.

I’m still betting it’s 100% a move preparing for a next move, be it during this season or in the next off-season. Getting his toxic ass out of the lockerroom is nothing more than a bonus I would say.

Yeah, even if Noah still has something to contribute, it would probably send the wrong message to the team by letting him come back – do drugs, fight your coach, be a distraction, no problem: the Knicks circus is still your home!

I can’t see it being a net positive in any way. There is no upside – he plays well, not good for us. He plays poorly, not good for us. He doesn’t play, not good for us. We have to cut him, or, at worst, keep him away from the team. And that may politically be difficult to do.

Yup. They’re gonna do something dumb with the cap space and win 30 games to mess up my under 29.5 bet

I’d keep Noah but they do have too many guys signed. A possible upside is they see our future so far in the future waiving him now doesn’t matter? I’d waive Lance instead, but I wasn’t privy to the shit Noah pulled. Maybe, after an era if Melo having front office power they are just trying to assert control?

I really don’t think it’s expected bad vibes from Noah that is getting him waived and stretched. I don’t know if Fizdale reached out to Noah, but per a number of sources “On Tuesday, Fizdale told reporters Noah has reached out to him and, per Ian Begley of ESPN, intimated he’s open to the possibility of Noah returning.” That suggests bad vibes aren’t there.

I think unlike Phil, it may Perry wants all his players to be able to score with defense and passing being secondary. It’s all about the Pointzz. It’s not like he hates defense, but looking at the likely starting lineup for this coming season, it’s not a large part of it. To be fair, it’s hard to get young two way players who still have potential for growth. It’s easier to get the players he did. And you can’t really blame him for having Kanter, since that was the only reasonable price for trading Melo. It’s also possible Perry just doesn’t want someone who will not be part of the team long term taking time away from the development of young players. Whatever his secret sauce for player development is, I don’t think it involves aging mentors on the team.

But the only reason I can see for not seeing Noah in training camp is that you are trying to be nice to him. Waiving him now gives Noah a much better chance of finding a place to play next season.

@rama, class of ’85