Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, October 21, 2014

You Better Watch Out, You Better Not Cry…

[EDIT: A few sources reporting this is dead...]

Better not pout, I’m telling you why, Allen Iverson appears to be coming to town.

The New York Post reports this morning that Allen Iverson is one interview with Donnie Walsh and Mike D’Antoni away from signing a one year/$1.3 million dollar contract with the New York Knicks.

78 comments on “You Better Watch Out, You Better Not Cry…

  1. Mike Kurylo

    Great article on Basketball Prospectus on AI. There’s a lot of good stuff in the article, but I’ll just quote a tiny bit.

    http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=788

    Let’s take Chandler. He’s shot 9-of-38 from beyond the arc this season. If he was hitting at the same rate as last year, Chandler would have made either 12 or 13 threes. If we add four more three-pointers and 12 points to his stat line, Chandler’s Win% improves from .358 to .401–because of four shots.

    In this context, the Knicks’ pursuit of Iverson looks like an overreaction to a slow start that isn’t reflective of the team’s talent level. Slumps or no, New York has room to improve its core talent, but the backcourt seems like an odd place to look, given it was the team’s strength a year ago. In particular, the Knicks’ existing guards already offer similar skill sets to Iverson’s. Robinson is a prolific scorer in a point guard’s body, just like Iverson, except that he was the more effective of the two players a year ago. A similar description also applies to rookie Toney Douglas, who has been an efficient scorer off the bench this season. Even if Iverson is an upgrade on Douglas, it’s not worth cutting into the playing time of a youngster who is a part of the team’s future.

    You should really read the rest, I think it’s a great take on the situation, with some interesting numbers to back it up.

  2. Nick C.

    But that doesn’t show “guts, spirit and heart” that AI brings every night. :-) Along with a career .425 FG% and a awesome mind boggling .313 from 3pt range (on 3.8/g) .519 TS% and .452 EFG%. How can we pass up such an opportunity. That’s what every team needs, a dude that will miss a ton of shots while running around more spiritedly with a fierce look on his face or better yet can “get” his shot just sucks at doding the improtant thing making it. Please sign him now, I mean it’s not like we didn’t learn anything from watching Jamal now we are ******** over ourselves to get his Grandfather.

  3. Brian Cronin

    That really was a great article, Mike.

    And if the Knicks seriously just passed on Iverson and not even had the interview, then really, what the hell, New York Post?! I wouldn’t have dreamed of linking to the article had it not been for how definitive they were stating things. It was not “the Knicks are thinking of offering Iverson a contract” it was “the Knicks are meeting with Allen Iverson before they offer him a contract.”

    That’s ridiculous reporting right there. I’m never counting on them again, that’s for sure.

  4. Mulligan

    Alan Hahn’s been talking about trading for McGrady since forever. If it would allow us to trade Curry and/or Jeffires, it sounds too good to be true. Why would the Rockets do that?

  5. d-mar

    Frank – I think that was just Hahn speculating.

    Now that the Iverson thing is dead, we can go back to talking about whether Chris Duhon can actually cross the 20% threshold in shooting and whether Eddy Curry is the Knicks’ salvation. Ugh….

  6. Mulligan

    although maybe with some solid Rockets defense, Curry’s flaws would be covered up a bit? They are really thin up front…

  7. Sandy

    no iverson = great news! can we put to the rest the theory that D’Antoni’s SSOL offense can rejuvenate every former star’s or bust’s career regardless of relevant stats.

  8. mase

    it makes you wonder what D’antoni told the Knicks to motivate them at halftime to produce that awesome send half in Indiana…”if we lose A.I. will get all your minutes!”

  9. Owen

    Thank god, I was on the verge of an aneurysm…

    Mulligan – Interestingly enough, the Rockets have been better on offense than defense so fa this year. They are ranked 12th and 14th respectively. Story of the year so far I would say. Also, my sense would be that Daryl Morey would be the least likely GM to trade for Curry. One can dream though…

  10. ess-dog

    Ha, I think Owen would’ve become a Nets fan if that had happened.
    I could see Morey going for a Hughes/Jeffries/Nate package… maybe…
    Hell, at this point I would do a straight up Harrington/Duhon for T-mac just to not have to watch those guys any more.

  11. Jafa

    Just read the NYT article. So Curry looks good for 10 minutes and we decide were OK? We beat Indiana and we think we have a team? Can’t wait for them to fall behind by 20 point in the 2nd or 3rd quarter to the Nets before making a rally, and then get completely blown out by the Celtics – I’m betting at least a 25 point margin.

    Just lost a lot of respect for Donnie Walsh.

  12. Mulligan

    I wasn’t against the Iverson trade, but in hindsight I’m glad they didn’t sign him. It felt a little like a quick-fix Isiah kind of move. Anyways, no one else is going to sign him, so you can’t exactly say it’s a missed opportunity. More like an opportunity we haven’t taken yet. If in January things are still totally bleak, I’ll probably be willing to try anything..

    Agreed that Daryl Morey would be the least likely GM to trade for Curry, but it’s not like he’s doing OUR trade for Curry. He’d be trading the expiring contract of a player that maybe doesn’t “fit” what they’re doing there for a player whose contract expires the next year and who maybe kinda sorta fits a need and gives them some depth??(not really, but that’s how I’d spin it I guess)

  13. David Crockett

    “Just lost a lot of respect for Donnie Walsh.”

    First, the article implied that James L. Dolan was the voice of reason in that situation — a sure sign of the coming apocalypse.

    Second, AI isn’t good anymore.

    I lost a little bit of respect for Walsh because he may have come closer to signing AI than Ramon Sessions.

  14. SeeWhyDee77

    I really doubt that AI’s on-court contributions are really the reason why Walsh problee won’t sign him. I think the Marbury era has everyone shook. Really? Are they serious? I don’t think AI is really that bad. Yea he has his “star status” issues, but he’s a totally different creature than Marbury. http://youbeenblinded.com/starbuy-point-guard-in-disguise/4621?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+youbeenblinded%2FsjRo+%28You+Been+Blinded+-+Now+in+Dazzling+HD%29
    I found this online today. Seriously yal, AI is no Marbury and I think it’s unfair to compare his so-called off court issues with Steph’s. It wouldn’t necessarily be a knee jerk reaction if Walsh were to sign AI. It’s a low risk move, so y not take a shot with a guy with the credentials AI has? I’m just dissapointed that Walsh seems to not be doing everything he can to field a competitive squad this year. However, if he pulls off a trade for McGrady (and he’s healthy enough) and ends up shedding Curry or Jeffries’ deal in the process-I won’t be upset with the decision not to sign AI

  15. d-mar

    I can see it now, D’Antoni in the locker room before the Nets game: “Fellas, the reason we didn’t sign Iverson is because we’re very comfortable with our roster as is. Donnie and I believe in you guys. We know we’re not a 2-9 team, and with Eddy back, I’m really amped about our team. So let’s go get ‘em!’

    And the Knicks go out and lose by 20 to hand the Nets their first victory of the season.

  16. Mulligan

    Maybe it’s just me, but it really bugs me when people write that they lost respect for people. First of all, it’s so overused. Secondly, what does it even mean? You lost respect… now what? To me a lack of respect connotes that you wouldn’t give Donnie Walsh common courtesy if you met him. Is that what you mean? If so, that’s kind of weird.
    You probably mean that you’ve lost faith in Walsh, that you think this move is such a bad idea that the only conclusion you can make is that you don’t trust him to do a good job in the future.
    To which I say, “Really?” He didn’t sign a historically controversial player that’s alienated at least the last two teams he’s been on and that makes you question Donnie Walsh’s judgment?

  17. Jafa

    David Crockett,

    I agree with you that its sad he came closer to signing AI than Ramon Sessions, who would be making us look respectable right now (unlike Duhon). But the perception of AI’s current skill set should not be up for question here. We have argued on this site repeatedly that it would have been a low risk medium upside move, and it would only be for 1 year (no messing with the 2010 plans).

    Anyway, got any prescriptions for pain medication that works on Saturday afternoon between the hours of 1PM and 4PM?

  18. cwod

    Did anyone read this?

    “D’Antoni, who was quoted after last night’s game as saying that Gallinari’s back was stiff, said he was misunderstood. Said D’Antoni: ‘I said he was a stiff. Not stiff. He didn’t look real fluid last night.’

    He sounds like a Gallo-hater!

  19. Owen

    David – I completely agree with that. I am sure Sessions wasn’t signed because he can’t spread the floor.

    It’s a sharp contrast btw Walsh and Morey. Right now, the Rockets are playing a platoon of Aaron Brooks and Kyle Lowry at point and paying them less than 2.5 million combined. Brooks has a 105 offensive rating, Lowry is at 112 (with outstanding defensive +/- numbers). Iverson for his career has a career offensive rating of 105.

  20. Donnie Walsh

    The interview didn’t go well. I said “Allen, don’t take this the wrong way, but we’re going to want you to practice.”

    He got up and left.

  21. TDM

    The news reports said that Walsh spoke with Larry Brown about potentially signing AI. I wonder if Brown had some not so good things to say.

    I’m not sure how to feel about the Knicks not signing him. I do know that as we get closer to the draft, I may be cursing Walsh for not pulling the trigger, and Isiah for not protecting the Knicks first rounder.

  22. cgreene

    What does it really matter if Utah gets the first pick or the 10th pick. They get our pick. Period. We shouldn’t be making any decisions based on where we might fall in the lottery. We all want to see the young players play more. That’s what they decided to do.

  23. iserp

    The problem i see is that now we’re up to if we can trade Curry and/or Jeffries. Lebron might come (alone) to a bad team if we have promising young players; but not to a totally garbage team. We’re leaving our young players too exposed and i think the pressure is making them play bad (specially chandler). The same can be said about Wade or Bosh.

    I know the year is very long, but right now, i am pessimistic even for summer 2010.

  24. BK

    So here’s where I deliver my standard preface that the administration deserves criticism and I’m not about blunting that criticism. Criticize away please…I’ve been doing it.

    However, it’s ludicrous to claim that Walsh was “closer to signing AI” than Sessions as some sort of indictment of his judgement, because the situations were totally different. Both players were considered by Walsh this past summer, and he talked to Sessions and agent heavily, and barely gave Iverson the time of day. Sessions wasn’t signed because of the maniacal focus on cap room, especially with the shrinking cap, and the determination that he wasn’t worth the number of years his agent was requesting.

    That might have been bad judgement (looks that way now because of how bad our guards are, though he’s not exactly turning things upside down in Minny), but the talent/need vs cap room consideration doesn’t equate to valuing AI over Sessions. The team was “closer” to signing AI because of a 2-9 record that is likely to be 3-15 or 2-16 in two weeks…a cheap quick fix presented itself, and they considered it very seriously.

    Now if you argue that the team wouldn’t be in this boat if they picked up Sessions in the first place, fair argument. But I doubt anyone foresaw the team being this bad out of the gate (as Kevin Pelton’s article shows so well). In this case, criticism of Walsh is warranted but seems overly heavy-handed to me.

  25. TDM

    “What does it really matter if Utah gets the first pick or the 10th pick.”

    In 2004, the difference was Dwight Howard vs. Luke Jackson. In 03, LBJ vs. Jarvis Hayes.

    Seeing Utah pick John Wall would be a much more bitter pill to swallow than seeing Utah draft someone like Luke Harangody. I’d take AI for a year just to ensure I wouldn’t have to see that happen.

  26. Mulligan

    Donnie Walsh: Master of Subterfuge!
    Chris Sheridan just posted this quote on True Hoop:
    “That’s part of it, because Eddy is now on the team and we’ve got to develop a lot of attention to Eddy from a franchise standpoint, because he went out there in 11 minutes and I thought actually changed the game in a lot of ways. Their big guys were having their way with us, which big men do because David (Lee) is not a natural center, and when Eddy went in — just the fact that he could take the ball and go at them — I could see they went back on their heels and they weren’t the same after that no matter who was playing. I thought he helped us win the game right there. He’s got a lot of talent, he’s got great size, you can see he’s worked on his body tremendously, so yeah, Eddy is a guy we’re very high on, and we wanted to work with him.”

  27. Owen

    TDM – Good point

    BK – You might be right. But I feel fine about my zero tolerance attitude towards Knicks management. Here is a piece from Chris Sheridan on why the Iverson signing fell apart. Apparently, Eddy Curry was part of it.

    It’s great they didn’t sign Iverson. But it’s crazy that Eddy Curry was the reason why. Every time Walsh does something right he at the same time does something to shake my confidence in him.

    http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/10869/how-eddy-curry-helped-doom-chances-of-iverson-to-knicks

  28. Ted Nelson

    I’m not upset that the Knicks aren’t signing Iverson, even though I thought they should. I am a bit upset with the reaction on this board, though. From an attitude, chemistry, etc. perspective there are a lot of reasons to argue against AI. For those making statistical arguments and saying, “oh, he’s got a 52% career TS% and 3P% of 31%… wah, wah, wah…” I just don’t see how you can ignore his 07-08 season. No one is saying he’s going to magically get better in D’Antoni’s system or play the (ridiculously stupid) role he did in Philly, just looking for him to match or come close to matching his production from the season before last.
    I agree with the Basketball Prospectus article that it’s not time to overreact to a slow start. However, even if Duhon were playing at his career averages or his numbers from last season, I would still be in favor of replacing him with Allen Iverson. If Chandler were scoring like he did last season maybe he’d be better, but he’d still be bad. I would also point out that while Iverson isn’t the answer to the Knicks prayers, how many high quality defensive centers are lying around willing to accept small one-year deals? Would D’Antoni even play them if they were? I think Iverson would have solved one of the Knicks biggest problems: they have a sub-par PG in a ridiculously stubborn offensive system that relies on strong PG play.

    BK does a good job of evaluating Iverson vs. Sessions. To me, the big difference is the length of the deal. I believe that Donnie did make an attempt to sign Sessions for one season, but the risk of signing him longer is missing out on much better FAs in 2010. (Don’t know if that was the right or wrong decision in the long-term.) From Sessions’ perspective, not only does he get more guaranteed money with the 4 year deal, he also ensures that he gets a pension (which I believe is 6 figures a year after something like 5 seasons).

    “We all want to see the young players play more. That’s what they decided to do.”

    I’m not sure that’s what they decided. Duhon, Hughes, Harrington are likely to continue getting heavy minutes. I would have been happy cutting Duhon and replacing him with Iverson, straight up, which would have left the same minutes for young players. Marcus Landry is the young guy I would like to see get more minutes, and I’d like to see those come at Chandler’s expense.

  29. Robert Silverman

    “It’s great they didn’t sign Iverson. But it’s crazy that Eddy Curry was the reason why. Every time Walsh does something right he at the same time does something to shake my confidence in him.”

    Guys – when Walsh says something like that, please don’t take it at face value. It’s called spin. He’s trying to inflate Eddy’s trade value and in this case, used the decision not to sign AI as a platform to do so. So, when he says something to the effect of, “He changes the game,” it shouldn’t be read/understood literally. He’s not talking to Nix fans, he’s talking to Morey, Kahn, Wallace, etc.

  30. cbrooklyn

    Having AI would of at least made the games more interesting to watch.PERIOD! Last game, none of “the young guys” got much playing time, and the previous games in which they did play..they were LOSERS!! To hell with all the watch “the young guys develop”!! This is NEW YORK, WE WANT TO SEE WINNERS, or at least competitive players…Walsh passed on obvious competitors(jennings,blair etc) in this draft and we dont have a pick in the next draft..WTF!! IMO they could of AT LEAST gave AI a shot…at least!

  31. Ted Nelson

    The Walsh quote is ridiculous (Curry had his way with Roy Hibbert and Solomon Jones… great!), but he also couldn’t come straight out and say, “Allen Iverson is an egomaniac who is not entirely in touch with reality so we decided not to sign him…” I think it was just misdirection. Walsh either has a way of avoiding media questions by talking about something largely unrelated but which serves his agenda (motivating Curry and boosting his trade value) or he’s just senile. Not sure which it is.

  32. Mike Kurylo

    I think there are many problems with Iverson, and I think both sides of the isle exaggerated his strengths & weaknesses. The main one that would make me hesitant to the Knicks signing him would be his reluctance to accept a lesser role. If AI comes over & it doesn’t work, there is no having him come off the bench like Hughes, Harrington, or Curry. In one respect that’ll hurt the team to invest time & energy on him, only to lose him the instant the coaching staff feels he’s not worth 35 minutes a night. And the fallout of Iverson pouting again, will make for an uncomfortable situation for the coach, other players, front office, etc. Going through the Stephon Marbury saga last year, as a fan I’m not ready to go through that again.

  33. Sandy

    “Iverson appears to solve a “problem” that doesn’t really exist while doing little to help the Knicks’ issues at the defensive end of the floor. The team would be better served by exercising patience as the players on hand return to their usual level of play.”

    Strong line from the Prospectus.

  34. tastycakes

    The difference between 1 and 10 going to Utah: who gives a shit?

    #10 this year was Brandon Jennings. Last year it was Brook Lopez. In 2005 it was Andrew Bynum. In 2002, Caron Butler. 2001, Joe Johnson (Eddy Curry #3!). You can get all-stars at either slot. Not picking, on the other hand, gets you JACK.

    Of course I would rather have the Knicks picking at 1 than 10. But it isn’t our pick *either way* so who cares where the Jazz land?

    Besides, with so many incredibly hilarious memories of Stephon Marbury, wasn’t it worth it???? THX ISIAH!

  35. tastycakes

    BTW, minorly disappointed we didn’t sign AI (for the entertainment value) but I can see the reasoning.

    Now, if we actually were trying to get Toney and Jordan and Gallo extended playing time, I’d be buying it a bit more.

  36. tastycakes

    Mase, a bit early to tell, don’t you think? I certainly thought he was a punk based on interviews etc pre-draft, but his team is winning and he’s playing tough. Will be interesting to see how all the attention goes to his head.

  37. BK

    Actually Owen, I thought of you when the Walsh quote on Curry surfaced and had a good laugh — just thought you’d appreciate the absurdity of Eddy appearing just in time to save us from Iverson. Who said he doesn’t have any value?

    But I tend to take Robert’s side on this: the Curry comment is spin. With the paucity of good news surrounding this team, Curry is a genuine human interest story that’s cannily being used to deflect attention away from the dysfunction. If Walsh and co. really believe we can be much more competitive during one of the most brutal stretches we’ll have all season (the next 10 days or so against the Celtics, Lakers, Kings, Nuggets, Magic and Hawks) thanks to Eddy, that’s delusion worthy of Chris Wallace.

    I said this in the previous thread, Eddy *can* be helpful in carefully doled out 8 to 10 minute chunks…I do believe that. But if he becomes part of a core rotation of 35 minute players that includes Duhon, Harrington, and Chandler, disaster looms.

  38. Peter87

    About the draft pick, I look at it this way:

    SOMEONE is going to get the first pick. It would probably be worse for us if the first pick lands on a team in our division. It’s kind of nice that we can control the pick, and see that it gets sent to the Jazz, where it will probably not affect us too much (unless he’s really a game-changer who lands Utah in the finals year after year, and somehow we end up in the finals too…)

  39. Z

    “About the draft pick, I look at it this way: SOMEONE is going to get the first pick. It would probably be worse for us if the first pick lands on a team in our division. It’s kind of nice that we can control the pick”

    Good point. Better the Jazz get it than the Nets.

    In fact, maybe we should lose tomorrow.

    Part of the long term plan.

  40. Ted Nelson

    Mike,

    I think that’s a good point re: Iverson demanding a big role. My thing all along has been bring him in if it’s to eat Duhon’s minutes (and also probably play a bit with Duhon), provided you feel he can come close to 07-08 form. Even if Duhon weren’t struggling so mightily I would still advocate upgrading. If D’Antoni’s not comfortable putting the ball in AI’s hands as a starting PG, then I agree it would be a total waste to sign him.

    Peter87,

    Good point. Knicks shouldn’t be looking to win with Utah in mind, but of course they should still look to win. As others have mentioned, it will be interesting to see what Utah does if they do get the #1 pick and John Wall is still the consensus choice… So depressing to look at the lottery prospects and know the Knicks have almost no shot at drafting one of them this year. At least we have our own 2nd, I think, which is basically a late 1st.

    BK and Owen,

    I think Curry can legitimately help this team. It’s always two steps forward and anywhere from 1-5 steps backward with him, but the Knicks have really struggled to get/make easy shots. He rebounded really well in game 1. 99% chance that’s a fluke (definitely a fluke to some degree) but maybe losing the weight and actually trying helps. His rebound rate under Larry Brown was actually 14 (due in part to a career high OReb%, which won’t happen under Mike “Screw Offensive Rebounds” D’Antoni). 3 TOs was bad, but the difference between a TO and Chris Duhon 3PA this season is minimal. He is more of a defensive 5 than Lee if he’s trying. In short, Eddy Curry is not a very good player, but the Knicks are also not a very good team.

  41. d-mar

    I was one on of the posters on this board in favor of signing Iverson because I wanted to bring some excitement to the team (and maybe make it easier to re-sell season tickets), but I’m not going to crucify Walsh for his decision. When you think about it, what would Iverson’s motivation be to sign with the Knicks? Obviously not to win a championship. To help them win more games? How important would that really be to him? His main motivation would be to show the league he can still play, and that doesn’t necessarily translate into wins, but more likely, AI “getting his”. So I can live with the decision. Now if we could make a Curry for T-mac deal….

  42. Frank

    The other thing is that it’s not like we can’t sign AI at a later date. No one is going to touch this guy. I don’t buy the whole Miami angle.

  43. TDM

    Walsh, to his credit, is the Bizarro Smiling Weasel. Every morning he wakes up and asks himself “W.W.I.D.?” — what would Isiah do? — then he promptly goes out and does the opposite. When it comes to running an nba team, you can’t really argue with this masterful plan.

  44. d-mar

    I just happened to check the in-game box score of the Bucks-Bobcats game, and Jennings was 8-9 with 19 pts. with 5 min. left in the 2nd qtr and I was fantasizing about what it would be like if he was on the Knicks instead of the Bucks. 1) We definitely wouldn’t be 2-9 2) we would be the talk of the NBA 3) we would be VERY attractive to next year’s FA”s and 4) the Garden would be buzzing every night. And iinstead we have a guy who doesn’t even play.

    F-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-u-k!!!!!!!

  45. Frank O.

    I’ve been one of the biggest supporters of bringing AI over, so I’m disappointed. So it goes. I think Ted and Frank and some others have made some good points about why he is an easy upgrade to Duhon, who in my view has virtually forfeited his minutes in my view.

    But I was heartened to hear that Walsh’s assessment of Curry was much like mine in earlier posts. He had an impact. They had to change their approach. The had to cope with his power. It was pleasant to see a Knicks player that actually could take the other team out of their game.And he did show vigor on both sides of the court.
    I know it’s early, but I want to believe that Eddy has grown a lot in the past year with his family problems and tragedy. Despite all that he was able to focus and lose a lot of weight. I think there is more to him than we originally thought.
    I know Mike and others disagree, and they have a lot of reasons not to believe.
    I just think a guy doesn’t go through such a big change without some fundamental restructuring of how he thinks and works…
    Time will tell.
    One thing is for sure: I’m eager at least to see how it plays out.

  46. tastycakes

    d-mar, word. Another sick game from Jennings in MIL, who could end up as an All-Star in Year 1. One player is all you need to start righting the ship in the NBA, and he could have been it. Damned hindsight!

  47. totti

    I can understand your feelings. It is very bad to support a team and never get a satisfaction from it. And there are so many years they don’t win. I am a big supporter of AC MILAN and i feel bad when they have a not winning season. Anyway, this management took the good path even if the present is dark. It takes time to rebuild and many lost games to swallow. By the way i am happy AI won’t come and i am equally concerned about Gallo. Is he ok or not? It seems to me that he is definitely not healed from the back problem. I keep crossing my fingers as i would like to see him in a couple of seasons becoming a fully developed player, maybe a star. Last thing: the return of curry is very very important. can you imagine add his salary to our cap next year? Or finally cover the 5 position with him? ciao a tutti

  48. totti

    I can understand your feelings. It is very bad to support a team and never get a satisfaction from it. And there are so many years they don’t win. I am a big supporter of AC MILAN and i feel bad when they have a not winning season. Anyway, this management took the good path even if the present is dark. It takes time to rebuild and many lost games to swallow. By the way i am happy AI won’t come and i am equally concerned about Gallo. Is he ok or not? It seems to me that he is definitely not healed from the back problem. I keep crossing my fingers as i would like to see him in a couple of seasons becoming a fully developed player, maybe a star. Last thing: the return of curry is very very important. can you imagine add his salary to our cap next year? Or finally cover the 5 position with him? ciao a tutti

  49. Z-man

    Random thoughts:
    I wonder how much of the decision to pass on Jennings was due to the Steph hangover. From what I remember about the pre-draft perceptions, there were concerns about character. I think the size issue (unwisely?) caused Walshtoni to rule out both Lawson and Jennings at #8, but Doc rivers made a great point about how the tightening of hand-checking rules has benefitted the smaller guard, turning good players into great ones. Still remains to be seen if Jennings can take the pounding when the league adjusts to him, that was one of Iverson’s best qualities in his heyday.

    Has anyone noticed that Blair’s burn has virtually disappeared in the last few Spurs games? Wasn’t he starting a few games ago? What’s going on?

    For all the Balk lovers out there, he is still glued to the bench in Denver, got a DNP-CD last night. Averaging 8 fouls per 36.

    With Nelson out for a while, I wonder if Orlando should take a flyer on AI. On second thought, if they can beat Boston on the road w/o him, why bother?

    In hindsight, I can live with the non-signing of AI. I would rather watch Nate and TD screw things up 40 MPG than an aging chucker dominating the ball.

    However pissed and disappointed I have been with Eddy, it was really nice to see him looking and playing like he did in his first game back. Good for him. And good for us, finally. It had to take a lot of hard work to get to this point, and habits (good and bad) are easy to maintain with proper support, so there is reason to have some optimism about him staying like this for a while. He can only help at this point.

  50. d-mar

    BBA – no doubt if the Knicks had signed AI, those 2 papers would have framed it as a “desperate” move by the “sinking Knicks”. I don’t know what Berman will do for a living if the Knicks ever start winning.

    Z-man – from my limited time watching Jennings, what really impresses me is his court vision and poise. Occasionally, he’ll jack up an ill-advised 3 (to quote Clyde), but he generally makes great decisions with the ball. And he’s unbelievably quick as we all know. For all those wanting to crucify Walsh (including the blowhard Francesa) what about the GM’s who picked ahead of the Knicks? There was not a writer, scout, coach out there who ever thought Jennings would be this good, in fact, the Bucks were considered to be making a very risky pick even at #9.

    Re: the Magic, very impressive win last night. It’s funny, though, that if you just look at the headlines, it appears VC was the star of the game with 26 pts. However, he was 10-29 from the floor and had 6 TO’s. I’m of the opinion that they were better off with Turkoglu and Carter will come up small in the playoffs.

    Re:Curry – he’s the one reason to watch the Knicks now, to see if he can produce sustained good play.

  51. ess-dog

    I am fine with not signing AI, but what I’m NOT fine with is having Duhon continue to start. Start Nate and Toney; Toney and Hughes; Nate and Hughes; Nate and Big Bird; anyone but Duhon.
    And if you watch the games, it doesn’t seem like a slump. Does speed and jumping ability go into a slump? Only if you’re injured.
    Without him the fastbreak would thrive, and Gallo would become more involved, maybe even become the primary passer.
    I’m sure D’Antoni wants to look sympathetic to the vets and wait another month and then make the switch toward “rebuilding” but I can’t stand this unwatchable basketball. I’m surprised anyone shows up to the garden at all…

  52. totti

    Oh yes dmar and essdog, why on earth duhon is on the starting five and Berman is paid by nypost? Misteries…..and yes d’antoni has to show he’s a good coach from now on trying to put some discipline in his players’ heads. PLAY THE YOUNG CORE

  53. Owen

    “For all the Balk lovers out there, he is still glued to the bench in Denver, got a DNP-CD last night. Averaging 8 fouls per 36.”

    I think he is hurt actually. They did sign him to an extension, so I will get the chance to watch him from afar for a few more years.

    Re Jennings – One major difference so far between him and Iverson, scoring efficiency. Jennings can hit the three ball. Iverson couldn’t. Jennings is at 58% thus far, which is pretty ridiculous given his volume. Remains to be seen how good he really is but early returns are definitely positive.

  54. cwod

    What are the chances that Lee’s performance this season, coupled with how bad the Knicks have been, will diminish his stature in the league, thus allowing us to re-sign him to a reasonable long-term deal? That is, assuming he wants to come back to this dysfunctional franchise at all and that we’d even want to see more of his well-chronicled defensive ineptitude [at the five].

    I say this as Lee finishes the first half shooting 1-6 from the floor. At least he has seven boards (but only one of the offensive variety).

  55. Kikuchiyo

    Third Quarter Thoughts:

    *While Lopez isn’t exactly killing the Knicks, it would be nice to see Eddy get a few minutes on him. I get tired of watching Lee get rejected. (Add Gallo now.)

    *I encourage the following slogan: Don’t-hon.
    Douglas and Nate should get chances to run the offense.

    *Let’s admit it: Hughes has been, gasp, somewhat dependable.

  56. SeeWhyDee77

    is Darko hurt or somethin? It jus amazes me that our best interior defender gets no PT. Add to that the fact that he’s a more versatile offensive weapon than Curry, it really makes me wonder what the hell goes thru D’Antoni’s mind. Don’t let me get started on not givin Hill any run so we could see what he’s got…although I’m not a fan of Hill’s…

  57. SeeWhyDee77

    Duhon is actually playin a decent game..but I agree that we all call him what Kikuchiyo said..Don’t-hon..thas hilarious!

  58. Kevin McElroy

    The two guys I’ve ragged on the most this year — Duhon and Chandler — are both coming up big here. Duhon’s undoubtedly been the most important Knick in the 4th quarter.

  59. cwod

    Chandler had just as many FTAs as FGAs. Granted, I think at least one of his trips to the line came off a loose ball foul.

  60. d-mar

    Now that’s the Eddy Curry we know and love! Someone needs to tell him that he doesn’t need to bull his way to the hoop EVERY SINGLE TEAM HE TOUCHES THE BALL. There is such as thing as kick it out and re-post.

    Gotta give Duhon props for playing a solid game at the 1, but jeez, it’s about time.

    Back to reality tomorrow.

  61. Joamiq

    That Pelton article is interesting but myopic. In the context of the realities of this season and the next, everything he wrote is completely irrelevant. Douglas is replaceable. Duhon is a FA. Robinson is a FA. Hughes is a FA. There’s nothing of worth in the backcourt that needs to be developed. Meanwhile, when you take a step back, the Knicks aren’t winning enough games to make the playoffs this year regardless of what they do. I don’t really care whether or not Iverson gives the Knicks a better shot to win this season, and I sure as hell don’t believe there’s anyone who is important to the Knicks’ future whose progress he would impede. I think Iverson is fun to watch and I’d enjoy rooting for him because he makes plays that can be admired in and of themselves, regardless of how many shots he misses along the way. Those little moments that let us forget about the realities of the season are all I have as Knick fan this year. I wish he’d been signed.

    I’m mostly pissed at the FO for pretending that they didn’t sign him for on-court reasons. They just didn’t want negative press in a year in which there wouldn’t be anything positive on the court to counteract it. That’s all. As a fan, I feel ripped off.

  62. Joamiq

    And yes, I know it’s part of Walsh’s job to spin things strategically. That doesn’t mean I have to like it.

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