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Thursday, August 21, 2014

Xmas Day “Recap”

So I made this. Maybe it doesn’t sum up everything that’s wrong with this team, but I think it hits upon at least 3 things.

Anything for you, buddy!

Anything for you, buddy!

5 Things I Saw:

1. The Knicks were -32 points with J.R. Smith on the floor, but he dropped 20 points so there’s that.

2. The Thunder shot 61.3% eFG for the game, which prompted this from Tyson Chandler about the Knicks’ D: “There’s a lot of holes. If I started going on them all I wouldn’t make it home and allow my kids to open their gifts.” That’s cold. Spot on, but cold.

3. ESPN published an article saying that the players still support their coach. What do you expect them to say publicly? Quickest way to the unemployment line is to stand up in the middle of your job and say that your boss should hit the road.

Additionally the players quoted were J.R. Smith and Iman Shumpert. The former can shoot like a rec league chucker and get plenty of burn. While the latter can’t crack 30 minutes a game even though he’s the only guard that could stop a 5th grader from scoring. It would be dumb for either of them to say anything bad about the decider in a room full of people with cameras and microphones.

4. Cole! Aldrich had a little pep in his step against his former team. The stats didn’t show it, but I thought he played pretty well. He threw one ball out of bounds when a cutter stopped making his way toward the basket. Otherwise his defense was pretty good. Oklahoma had a more difficult time just walking up to the basket and placing it gently in the hoop with Colesanity on the floor. I thought he had two blocks, but I guess he didn’t get a piece of that second one.

5. Barring a miracle turn-around, the Knicks are going to fire Woodson this year. The only question that remains is — When? Lenny Wilkens and Don Chaney were gone after exactly 39 games, and D’Antoni lasted until the 42nd. Using that measuring stick, Woodson should be exiled between the 17th and 24th of January. If P.J. Carlesimo isn’t the replacement I lobby for Rasheed Wallace. Why not? It’s half a season that’s half way down the crapper.

44 comments on “Xmas Day “Recap”

  1. kronicfatigue

    Only the Knicks could have a controversy brewing where their third string point guard is getting publicly blamed for their losing. For the non-timeout game no less.

  2. Frank O.

    About Woodson, I also think these guys are human beings.
    No one wants to see someone fired, particularly if they like the guy, and particularly around Christmas.
    I think they all feel culpable for the team’s failure as well.

    But Woodson is showing a lack of flexibility that rivals D’Antoni’s:
    - is JR love is killing him.
    - his willingness to run certain players to the ground is killing him, as well as the resulting injuries.
    - his unwillingness to play the smaller, more effective line up is killing him.
    - his in game calls are killing him.
    - his inability to create good ball movement on a consistent basis is killing him.

    The Knicks should fire him. His players are utterly disinterested in defense. The number of unchallenged layups is pretty sickening.

    Whether you believe it is all Woodson’s fault or not, the team needs a change.

  3. Mike Kurylo Post author

    Only the Knicks could have a controversy brewing where their third string point guard is getting publicly blamed for their losing. For the non-timeout game no less.

    In the business world, find me someone who blames his subordinates for his team’s production, and I’ll show you a bad manager.

    And yes there are some managers who inherit a bad staff. But the right way to look at it is the team’s problems are your problems. Publicly you take the blame for the whole team, while you privately work to change the team/make them better/replace them.

    Maybe Beno is to blame for what he did in the final moments of that game, but that was only 1 of 10 things that went wrong. Heck I’d say that even having Udrih out there is the coach’s fault. If he sucks so bad, play Murry. If Murry isn’t the right guy than bring up Chris Smith. If Chris Smith isn’t a real option, then get rid of Cole Aldrich, because you never play him anyway.

    Or maybe have the wherewithal to call a time out and draw up a play. Or maybe run drills so you’re players are prepared for every situation they might encounter. Or maybe put in Metta (or take out Bargnani).

    A bad manager will blame one aspect and be blind to the 20 other things that are going wrong.

  4. Frank O.

    Regardless of whether the East sucks, the Knicks should really think about making some trades, picking up some draft picks and looking to a new draft and a new season. Melo and Tyson and Shump could help another team win this year.

    Beyond that, I have rarely seen a team of good talent with so little chemistry. They don’t like each other.

    And I’m not liking them.

    It started for me with Melo announcing that he would test free agency publicly. To me that was, if not the father of this decline, it was a major factor. His play has been outstanding; the cynical part of me says it’s because he intends to be a free agent.
    But even before that there were the Knicks offering a large contract to JR, who despite winning the 6th man award, had completely blown up during the playoffs.
    JR should never have gotten that big a contract from the Knicks, and he has not played up to the contract.
    It had another effect: it alienated Shumpert, who then was told he needed to compete for his job with JR, a guy who has never been a good starter in this league, but who is the recipient of Woodson man-love.
    The message was clear: offense gets you rewards in the NBA and possibly a starting job. So long as Shump was cast defensively, he knew his prospects were not good visa vis JR, particularly with Woodson at the helm

    The Knicks reinforced this message when they demanded Shump attend summer camp to work on his ball-handling skills. The Knicks hadn’t asked JR to attend to improve his ball-handling skills, or his defense, or his streakiness.
    And while JR labored through some truly horrible basketball early this year, it was Shump that was getting killed by the coach and faced trade rumors.

    And no one seemed to get on Ray for showing up this year fat…again.
    Is it any wonder Ray has had injuries again?
    Shump showed up fit and he was returning from surgery.

    It has been the guard play that has killed the Knicks this season.

  5. lavor postell

    I don’t even blame JR anymore when our franchise player is out and Woodson still runs an offense in which isolation makes up 50% of the possessions. Only Woodson thinks that isolating STAT on one side of the floor 15 feet from the hoop with not one player on the strong side for an easy outlet available to kick out too is an effective play. Only Woodson would rather JR bring the ball up and free lance rather than running a fucking play from the sideline. Only Woodson thinks switching on any pick and roll and consistently having players rotate off of the weakside corner is a sound defensive strategy. Only Woodson believes that doubling anybody in the post regardless of the matchup and time remaining on the shot clock with the closest perimeter defender leaving easy kick out threes open is a good idea. Only Woodson thought it was a good idea to completely abandon the two PG lineups from last year at the beginning of the season when we had all three point guards healthy.

    In short, fuck Mike Woodson.

  6. Frank O.

    For almost all of this, except Melo’s comments about free agency, Woodson bears responsibility.
    He seems to not realize that these are human beings, young ones at that, and that his decisions create concentric rings through the locker room.
    If you reward a volume shooter who is prone to stupidity, the message to your best young player is: offense of a certain kind is more important than team defense, than effort, than grit.

  7. Frank O.

    I think Mike got lost.
    I think he took an offensive-minded team from D’Antoni and got good offense.
    And then he believed more in offense than defense suddenly.
    He preaches about defense, but his defensive sets have been terrible. The switching has been a nightmare. Switching has become synonymous with non-effort.
    And he hasn’t helped his best perimeter defender feel his defense is important.

  8. massive

    I honestly believe this team would be so much better if JR Smith, Andrea Bargnani, and Mike Woodson were all gone. When you’re down double digits, it’s unacceptable to let JR Smith dribble the ball up court and shoot before the shot clock has a chance to get to 16. And you don’t play a front court player like Bargs when your defense sucks and you’re getting out rebounded. I don’t think Mike Woodson believes in ball movement. I don’t think he believes in rebounding. The only thing he believes in is switching and isolations. And it’s gotten his ass handed to him all season.

  9. flossy

    Anyone watch the Lakers/Heat game? Is there any reason the Knicks, who have far, far more talent on their roster than the Lakers at this juncture (even without Melo, frankly), can’t simply play hard and compete the way LA did?

    If you ever find yourself wishing your team played more like one coached by Mike D’Antoni, starring Nick Young as the go-to scorer… I mean, holy crap. Nothing says “blow it up” more than that. I just don’t understand what the front office is waiting for. If they’re not going to tear it down, how are they not at least trying something? A trade, a coaching change… how does anyone watch this team play and think the ship will right itself? Does any sentient human think that the lack of Raymond Felton and Carmelo Anthony’s defense is the reason we got lit up for 123 point?!

  10. massive

    And despite what Mike Woodson will tell you, he has always been an offensive minded coach. His teams in Atlanta were always better offensively than defensively. I think his last year there, his team was 2nd in offense and 13th in defense.

    The more I think about it, there is no better case for a man who doesn’t know what makes him successful than Mike Woodson. He’s really clueless.

  11. Mike Kurylo Post author

    The more I think about it, there is no better case for a man who doesn’t know what makes him successful than Mike Woodson. He’s really clueless.

    Maybe that’s his brilliance? He’s so dumb that he can get rich dumb people into believing him. If he were smarter and knew better ways to do things, then he’d just be an average guy to the smart people in charge. But that he walks and talks like someone the dumb people think is smart, makes him able to be a success, because there is always some dumb person in charge that will hire him.

    For all the conjecture on NBA minds being the smartest minds in the sport, I’d love the chance to run a team. I’d seek out some successful high school coach and probably do just as well. I mean can they be any worse than some of the NBA coaches out there? I’d get a fantasy guru to the be a GM. All they do is crunch numbers and offer shitty trades to dumb owners. They just need one Dolan to OK Bargnani for an unprotected first, and we’d be right on track.

    It’s not what you know, it’s who you know.

  12. Frank

    For all the conjecture on NBA minds being the smartest minds in the sport, I’d love the chance to run a team. I’d seek out some successful high school coach and probably do just as well. I mean can they be any worse than some of the NBA coaches out there? I’d get a fantasy guru to the be a GM. All they do is crunch numbers and offer shitty trades to dumb owners.

    I know you’re being tongue and cheek here (are you?) but my guess is that this is a lot harder than it looks. If any Tom Dick or Harry could be a good head coach then people like Pop, Phil, Riley, Sloan, etc. wouldn’t be coaching legends — everyone would be a legend. It’s one thing to tell people to run a pick and roll – another to run it correctly, positioning, reads, etc. It’s like in football – everyone tries to do some of the stuff Rex Ryan does, but he’s the only one that can teach it correctly. On top of that, the coach needs the personal skills to get everyone on the same page all the time, whether it’s through books about Zen or whatever magic Pop weaves over his players. That’s not an easy job with 15 players that are all corporations unto themselves, with many people in their inner circles that have different agendas.

    nd re: being a GM – sure, some of it is like fantasy basketball but the hardest parts of the job are probably contract negotiations, trade negotiations, and the draft, where you’re dealing with very limited information from all kinds of people from many countries across the world.

  13. Frank

    What would I do? I’d hire the best coach I could find that has shown the ability to be innovative AND adaptable (ie. as innovative as D’Antoni was, but as adaptable as Pop or Riley were). Easy to say, hard to do. Then as GM, if I wanted to do it on the cheap, I’d hire the best internet poker player who’s a basketball fan– a guy who has an innate sense of risk, odds, how to tease out the true intentions of others, and who knows when is a good time to take that risk. No surprise that at one point basically all the CEOs of the most successful banks were card players. (of course there are many definitions of “successful”). Then give him access to high level scouts and whatever analytics he needs.

  14. Brian Cronin

    I think what the best owners do is simply hire smart people and get out of their way. Dolan seemingly will never do that. He almost did it for a while there with Donnie Walsh (who was forced on him by the NBA) but then he had to step in and fuck things up. Walsh was smart enough to know that Denver was asking for too much for Melo. Dolan, though, thought otherwise. He was wrong. Because he is not as smart as Donnie Walsh (and it’s not like Donnie Walsh is some genius, but he’s successfully helped build three different strong Indiana teams, so he at least should have earned enough respect to be trusted in the Melo negotiations).

  15. ThisIsTraps

    I think what the best owners do is simply hire smart people and get out of their way. Dolan seemingly will never do that. He almost did it for a while there with Donnie Walsh (who was forced on him by the NBA) but then he had to step in and fuck things up. Walsh was smart enough to know that Denver was asking for too much for Melo. Dolan, though, thought otherwise. He was wrong. Because he is not as smart as Donnie Walsh (and it’s not like Donnie Walsh is some genius, but he’s successfully helped build three different strong Indiana teams, so he at least should have earned enough respect to be trusted in the Melo negotiations).

    I have a lot of problems with Donnie Walsh’s tenure, but this is still spot on. Sadly, according to Walsh himself, he wasn’t wise enough to inquire on the Deron Williams front during the Melo negotiations either. Perhaps if Dolan had been shown an alternative star acquisition at a slightly lower price, the Melo deal may not have went down.

  16. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, believe me you, I thought Walsh had plenty of problems in his tenure (Jordan fucking Hill at the 8th pick? Seriously?!) but when both he and D’Antoni were begging Dolan to call Denver and Melo’s bluff and Dolan just ignored then…just so stupid.

  17. Mike Kurylo Post author

    No surprise that at one point basically all the CEOs of the most successful banks were card players.

    I know hedge funds/wall street recruit chess players (bridge players too).

    If any Tom Dick or Harry could be a good head coach then people like Pop, Phil, Riley, Sloan, etc. wouldn’t be coaching legends — everyone would be a legend.

    This kinda confirms my point. Either you have the stuff for “legends” or you don’t. Obviously few coaches that are in the NBA have that ability. Everyone else you’re hiring doesn’t, or it likely would have been apparent. So why dip into the same pool of failed coaches?

    Yes we can get another coach that is pretty good but has X flaws that he can’t fix and will eventually lead to his demise. So the only logical conclusion is to expand the pool. There are probably somewhere between 5-20 basketball coaches out there in the world that if given the chance could be the next Popp or Sloan. Heck Bargnani rebounds like a 14 year old. JR Smith has the shot selection of a 14 year old. Why not get someone used to dealing with 14 year olds to teach them how to stick your backside out when the shot goes up? Or why the step-back 21 footer should be phased out of your repertoire.

    Personally I’d look for a guy that has had success with lesser talent, that would love a chance to mine through stats that I could afford at the professional level, and has impeccable in game-management skills. Heck the last one alone would make him more qualified than most NBA coaches.

    Seriously here’s one Woodson would have failed: “Your team is up by 1 with 24 seconds to go and the other team has the ball. What do you tell your team in the huddle?” Make 20 of these questions & have them answer it as fast as possible. Hire the guy that gets them all right without batting an eyelash.

  18. Frank

    Sadly, according to Walsh himself, he wasn’t wise enough to inquire on the Deron Williams front during the Melo negotiations either.

    Honestly, I think we’d all rather have Melo right now than Deron Williams.

    it’s not that Melo hasn’t lived up to expectations — he had a down year in 11-12 but other than that he’s been IMHO even better than I thought he would be- the problem is that that is not as good as he needed to be to justify that trade.

    Like ThisIsTraps, I have lots and lots of problems with the Donnie Walsh era. I’m not sure Walsh is the guy we should be pining after, considering his relatively poor draft record, getting worked mercilessly by Morey in the McGrady trade, signing probably the exact coach that Lebron would not want to play for, and then signing Amare to what would turn out to be one of the worst contracts in basketball. Literally all the guy did was gut the franchise in a not-particularly-elegant way, then stand by helplessly as Dolan steamrolled him in the Melo trade.

  19. Frank

    Seriously here’s one Woodson would have failed: “Your team is up by 1 with 24 seconds to go and the other team has the ball. What do you tell your team in the huddle?” Make 20 of these questions & have them answer it as fast as possible. Hire the guy that gets them all right without batting an eyelash.

    That’s an interesting idea — have the guy run on a treadmill to induce some physiologic stress, then just fire questions at them. Most coaching candidates wouldn’t put up with that, but it’d be an interesting test.

    Personally I’d look for a guy that has had success with lesser talent, that would love a chance to mine through stats that I could afford at the professional level, and has impeccable in game-management skills. Heck the last one alone would make him more qualified than most NBA coaches.

    I loved that Brad Stevens hire by the Celts. Seriously, any coach who can get Butler to the NCAA finals not once but twice has to have something special. And we’re seeing it now.

  20. Brian Cronin

    Honestly, I think we’d all rather have Melo right now than Deron Williams.

    it’s not that Melo hasn’t lived up to expectations — he had a down year in 11-12 but other than that he’s been IMHO even better than I thought he would be- the problem is that that is not as good as he needed to be to justify that trade.

    Like ThisIsTraps, I have lots and lots of problems with the Donnie Walsh era. I’m not sure Walsh is the guy we should be pining after, considering his relatively poor draft record, getting worked mercilessly by Morey in the McGrady trade, signing probably the exact coach that Lebron would not want to play for, and then signing Amare to what would turn out to be one of the worst contracts in basketball. Literally all the guy did was gut the franchise in a not-particularly-elegant way, then stand by helplessly as Dolan steamrolled him in the Melo trade.

    I don’t think anything the Knicks did could have mattered to Lebron. All indications are that he had his mind made up back in 2008. That said, beyond all the other things Walsh did (and I agree, he had some major faults) all of his moves were built around that second star to add to STAT and that’s what all of his moves were leading up to – and then Dolan stepped in and took it away from him.

  21. max fisher-cohen

    Regarding Mike’s comment, I think the point is many NBA teams have a very strong corporate culture — highly risk averse with a lot of group think. The profit motive does not reward those managers and coaches who necessarily do what’s in the long term interest of the team. Instead, it tends to reward those who do the best job of covering themselves. If you take a risk — trade a popular player for some relatively unknown young players, hire a relatively unknown coach, run unconventional offensive or defensive schemes — that decision is attributed to you, and while if it succeeds, you will get some credit, you are going to get a lot more of the blame if it fails.

    The better option is to be invisible, to do everything according to convention, and then when things don’t go perfectly (and they won’t most of the time, even if you made a decision that had the best odds of paying off for the team in the long run) your struggles will be blamed on bad luck as your decisions will all be unremarkable.

    Woodson is a perfect example of this — he plays his guys a lot of minutes because the knicks “need to get some wins”, and then when they get hurt, the team’s struggles are attributed to injuries rather than Woodson. He plays with a 100 yard leash because Smith and ANthony are the most connected players on the roster. He plays big because “the east is big” and probably more because Dolan was behind the Bargnani trade.

    Look at how long Steve Balmer has lasted as CEO of Microsoft despite a litany of failures — Bing, Surface, Vista, Windows 8. This is because he simply follows market trends rather than trying to make new markets. Google is making a lot on search? Let’s copy it and throw a big budget behind it! iPads are selling like hot cakes? Let’s copy that too!

    It’s like poker. You’ll eventually go broke if you never call a bet, but at least you’ll never lose! That’s the corporate mentality.

  22. ThisIsTraps

    Honestly, I think we’d all rather have Melo right now than Deron Williams.

    Right now, sure. A lot has happened since that trade, though, and who knows if everything injury-wise would have played out the same. It was also a case of getting an iso-predominate wing versus a P&R guard in what was, at the time, a P&R system with D’Antoni.

    The Melo trade was one that I think had to be done, though. It was, it failed, and we can only hope that the organization will realize that and move on (they won’t).

    ETA: Totally with you on how Melo has performed. This is not meant to necessarily be an endorsement of a Deron trade vs a Melo one.

  23. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, none of this is a shot at Melo as either a player or as a negotiator. I don’t mind him wanting to make sure he was traded before the lockout. Not at all. I do mind that the Knicks caved with their offer. That’s not Melo’s fault.

  24. bobneptune

    Walsh made one key mistake in his tenure with the Knicks (the same mistake the great George Young made with the Giants in 1996 drafting Cedric Jones with the 5th pick in essentially a 4 player draft). He loved Steph Curry in 2009 and didn’t trade up to get him. Rumors were rampant at the time Washington wanted to trade out of the draft (and did, moving the #5 pick for Randy Foye and Mike Miller) and were asking the Knicks #8 pick and Wilson Chandler). Big mistake.

    As to the Amar’e signing, it literally had to be done and the risk at the time was reasonable. Remember, the Knicks couldn’t get anyone (Joe Johnson, Rudy Gay, etc) to give them a sniff til Amar’e signed. Only then were Melo and Chris Paul interested in coming to NYC. Even the vaunted Pheonix medical staff approved signing Amar’e for 3 yrs/60M and they had every bit of data available with which to make the best informed decision. Even they never envisioned Amar’e breaking down before the end of One season. Plus, Walsh had to be aware of the strong possibility of an amnesty provision in the upcoming CBA, so that mitigated the risk in the out years.

    But then Dolan screwed the pooch and forced the Melo trade, not allowing to let Walsh play chicken with Denver down to the deadline. Hence, 3 useful players and 2 #1 picks were sacrificed at the altar of Melo and unwanted crap like Billups et al were loaded on the Knicks obviating the amnesty clause for Amar’e should he blow up.

    “And that (to quote the great Robert Frost) has made all the difference.”

  25. Brian Cronin

    I don’t believe the Chandler/Washington thing was ever actually confirmed. It made too much sense for the Knicks to make that deal, so I tend to believe that it was never actually offered. I bet that it was the Knicks who were putting the rumor of that offer out there.

  26. knickster

    …I have rarely seen a team of good talent with so little chemistry. They don’t like each other. And I’m not liking them….

    That’s the fundamental mistake in most posts analyzing the Knicks’ failures: they start from the premise we have a talented roster. We don’t.

    We have an assortment of one-trick ponies and overlapping ‘talent’, beginning with our so-called ‘superstar’.

  27. er

    unwanted crap like Billups

    —-See this is where ppl miss the boat on this trade. Billups was an expiring contract, he could have been traded or just let expire. Amare could have still been amnistied. And CP3 could have been here

  28. bobneptune

    —-See this is where ppl miss the boat on this trade. Billups was an expiring contract, he could have been traded or just let expire. Amare could have still been amnistied. And CP3 could have been here.

    By taking Billups they lifted an enormous PR problem from Denver, namely, how do they dump the home town hero.

    Once they included Felton, they needed someone to play the point for their “playoff” team, so he couldn’t be moved before the trade deadline.

    Now, they could have let him walk for 4,5M after the season, but they needed to create a slot for a center and still would need someone to man the point. We all found out how Toney Douglas and the player once known as Bibby worked out.

    That satisfying of Melo and Dolan ADHD in that cluster-bleep of a trade and its sequela has crippled the franchise for another decade.

  29. cgreene

    I am so down on the franchise. We are in the midst of basically what’s going to end up being a 20 year run of futility. The highlight is going to be a 3 year stretch where we went 6-14 in the playoffs and had one 50+ win team. All of these clever possibilities that smart GMs that think 2 or 3 moves ahead would have made will never happen with this team. Ever. The reason is James Dolan. Horrible ownership is the worst curse in sports. We have the worst of the worst.

  30. bobneptune

    I don’t believe the Chandler/Washington thing was ever actually confirmed. It made too much sense for the Knicks to make that deal, so I tend to believe that it was never actually offered. I bet that it was the Knicks who were putting the rumor of that offer out there.

    A deal is only a rumor until it is actually done, but the point being Washington WAS interested in moving the #5 pick AND actually did for a middling package of Mike Miller and Randy Foye. Hard to imagine that deal couldn’t have been topped.

  31. Brian Cronin

    Teams confirm offers all of the time. Heck, just the other month there was a confirmed offer of Faried for Shump that was squelched by the Nuggets asking for a pick. No source ever confirmed the Chandler offer. In fact, it was specifically denied as ever being in consideration. I do believe that that pick was in play. I just don’t think Wilson Chandler was ever a realistic possibility for getting it. I’m fine with “they should have tried harder to get that pick” but not “they should have traded Chandler for that pick” since I don’t think it was ever a possibility.

  32. Donnie Walsh

    Forget Deron Williams, what made the Carmelo Anthony trade look terrible was that Chris Paul became available just a few months later. But we had nothing left to offer, and we had a coach and a system that needed a top-PG, and we got him Carmelo Anthony, Amar’e Stoudemire, and Ray Felton. Made no sense.

    And re:the rumored trade-up in 2009, that was a rumor and obviously if it was available, the Knicks would have made the trade. As it turned out, Washington wasn’t looking for draft picks anyway, and wanted out of the draft completely.

    Re:Draft record, the Knicks actually targeted the right players in ’08 and ’09 (Westbrook and Curry), but missed both by one spot. And they got good value with their 2010 pick. And Shump and Hardaway look like solid picks, so the sad thing is that the Knicks have actually been well prepared and used the draft well in recent years. They just keep trading away their goddambed picks!

  33. BigBlueAL

    Yeah, the 2008 draft was just as frustrating as the 2009 draft to me. We had to endure the awful 2007-08 season where the Knicks won just 23 games and yet they only got the 6th pick. Weeks before the draft Westbrook wasnt considered a lock at all at being a Top 5 pick, then as the draft approached the NY media started reporting that he was the Knicks top choice by far and they were not going to let him pass them. Then all of a sudden as the draft approached Westbrook started strongly being tied to OKC at #4 and thats where he went. Cant complain about drafting Gallo but again that draft was a real bummer because all we got for Isiah’s awful final season as Knicks coach was the 6th pick in a draft where the 3 best players in the draft went 1st (Rose), 4th and 5th (Love).

    Besides being cursed with an awful owner and front office the past decade bad luck has also had a part in it too unfortunately.

  34. JK47

    That’s the fundamental mistake in most posts analyzing the Knicks’ failures: they start from the premise we have a talented roster. We don’t.

    We have an assortment of one-trick ponies and overlapping ‘talent’, beginning with our so-called ‘superstar’.

    This is exactly right, and this is exactly where we were at during the Isiah years– with a “talented” roster that made no sense together. Compare this team to, say, the 2006-2007 Knicks. That team had “talent” too– Stephon Marbury, Jamal Crawford, Eddy Curry and Steve Francis, all “talented” players who couldn’t and wouldn’t play defense worth a lick, and who were redundant because they were worthless without the ball in their hands. That Knicks team ranked 17th in offensive rating, 25th in defensive rating, and won 33 games. The current pile of shit occupying Madison Square Garden ranks 19th in offensive rating, 25th in defensive rating, and is on pace to win 26 games.

    Same as it ever was.

  35. Totes McGoats

    Interesting mention if PJ as an interim if Woodson gets the axe. That would actually be a nice short term change. He wouldn’t get along with Melo full time, but hell…..it’s starting to feel more and more like Melo is gonna walk. If the FO was smart they would start exploring rebuild deals and scour the market for young coaches with potential. Or at least start reaching out to Billy Donovan. Woodson’s toast, that’s become painfully clear. Part of me even believes that in a weird way he wants to be let go because he is nit enjoying workin for Dolan. And I’ve seen him be a better coach than he has shown this season

  36. Brian Cronin

    It must be nice to get James Harden’s whistle. 22-25 from the free throw line in a Houston victory.

    Did y’all see Jeff Teague’s game-winner tonight in double overtime? Crazy win.

  37. Kahnzy

    Did y’all see Jeff Teague’s game-winner tonight in double overtime? Crazy win.

    I’m normally not a fan of hero ball (for the Knicks or otherwise), but the battle in double OT between Teague and Irving was fun. not to mention Krover’s 4-point play. I continue to watch the Knicks because I’m a glutton for punishment, but I get my kicks from watching other teams. Portland this year looks a lot like the Knicks last year. Transcendent scoring forward surrounded by a lot of 3pt shooters, a center that just wants to defend and grab boards, and mediocre defense. Also, Damian Lillard is the future best PG in the NBA.

  38. bobneptune

    Teams confirm offers all of the time. Heck, just the other month there was a confirmed offer of Faried for Shump that was squelched by the Nuggets asking for a pick. No source ever confirmed the Chandler offer. In fact, it was specifically denied as ever being in consideration. I do believe that that pick was in play. I just don’t think Wilson Chandler was ever a realistic possibility for getting it. I’m fine with “they should have tried harder to get that pick” but not “they should have traded Chandler for that pick” since I don’t think it was ever a possibility.

    “Confirmed” by whom? Steven A Smith? Unnamed sources?

    Be that as it may, even if Washington wanted players and not picks the Knicks had players to trade that were likely not to be re-signed in 2010 with the “2 max player hunt” in full swing like David Lee (16 ppg, 11.7 rpg, .153 ws/48) 2009. Lee was never going to be resigned if the Knicks were going after 2 max guys in 2010. They got bubkis for him Azubuike, Pharoh and 2 #2 picks.

    Point being, in the NBA where 5 people play the bulk of the minutes (unlike the NFL), if you have a player you love in the draft within your grasp, you have to make a move for him.

    Of course, it wouldn’t have mattered as Curry would have gone to Denver in the Melo trade anyway:-)

    But you cannot let real assets walk for nothing. D Lee and J Lin sez hai……

  39. Brian Cronin

    What was great about Batum’s three that just tied the game with a couple of seconds left is that the Clippers clearly did try to foul up three, but there literally wasn’t an opportunity. What an impressive play call by Terry Stotts, who is really an underrated mind when it comes to coming up with great offenses.

  40. Brian Cronin

    Matt Barnes just committed a Knick-like play. Down one, he intentionally fouls a Blazer far away from the basket with 26 seconds left.

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