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Monday, November 24, 2014

Will Peace Give The Knicks A Chance?

Knicks Fans were keeping their eyes on the clock Sunday evening as it crept closer and closer to 5 pm — almost like when the clocked ticked down New York’s pick during the first round of the 1999 NBA Draft.

The anticipation, much like it was in 1999, was over whether or not the hometown kid was going to suit up for his hometown team.

As 5 pm came and went on Sunday, the Knicks were given a second chance. Another chance to make up for the one they blew 14 years ago when they picked a French Center named Frederic Weis over Ron Artest.

Artest, better known these days as Metta World Peace, cleared waivers on Sunday after being amnestied by the Lakers, and is now an unrestricted free agent.

(Side note, I became a fan of the St. Johns basketball team thanks in part to Artest, and I still find it weird that he is now Metta World Peace)

World Peace is coming off a season in which he averaged 12.4 points, 5.0 rebounds and 1.8 steals per game — a big improvement over the numbers MWP put up during the lockout-shortened 2012 campaign.

Chirs Broussard of ESPN reported that World Peace wants to play of the Knicks, but stressed that the homecoming of the Queensbridge native is not 100% certain.

World Peace cleared waivers late Sunday afternoon, making him an unrestricted free agent. A source told ESPN.com’s Brian Windhorst that the Knicks, who can offer him part of their taxpayer mid-level exception [roughly $1.7 million], already have reached out to the former Los Angeles Laker.

While World Peace has expressed through various channels that the Knicks are his first choice, he is also holding onto the Los Angeles Clippers and China’s Shanghai Sharks as possible teams to join next season.

World Peace spoke Sunday with Yao Ming about playing in Shanghai, a source said.

With options on the table for World Peace, will he make the choice to return home after the Knicks passed on that chance years ago?

I sure hope so.

The Knicks with Carmelo Anthony at the power forward position are a much better team than with him a small forward. This is almost irrefutable. If World Peace decides to sign with the Knicks, they’ll be addding a bone-fide small forward to a starting lineup that could be one of the best in the Eastern Conference.

And the idea that you could have a defensive trio of Shumpert, Chandler, and World Peace starting every night would certainly be music to Mike Woodson’s ears. Playing MWP at the three would allow Shumpert to work in the shooting guard spot, where he’s had by far the most success.

It also reduces the defensive responsibility for Melo, allowing them to match up better with teams that play bigger lineups.

Additionally, the presence of World Peace helps lengthen the bench, where guys like Smith, Stoudemire, Prigioni and Bargnani should all feel a bit less pressure.

But with the signing of MWP a distinct possibility and roster spots dwindling quickly, the two point guard starting system looks to be in serious jeopardy heading into next season — even though the trio of Prigioni, Felton, and Kidd put up some impressive tandem numbers, particularly down the stretch.

Insteady, it’s becoming more and more clear that the Knicks favor going with a traditional lineup, something the addition of World Peace makes even more likely.

Whatever the Knicks decide to do with their rotations, the team will have its work cut out for it: The Nets have gotten decidedly better, while the Bulls, Pacers and Heat aren’t going anywhere.

Indeed, the East will easily be as competitive as it has been in a decade, and the Knicks need to pull out all the stops to assure they remain part of that resurgence.

The process will likely take a few days, but it’s clear that the addition of World Peace to the Knicks– at what amounts to just a shade above the veteran’s minimum — entails too many positives for both parties to somehow not happen.

The again, what happened in 1999 was shocking, too. Let’s just hope World Peace doesn’t return the favor.

66 comments on “Will Peace Give The Knicks A Chance?

  1. Frank

    Welcome Matthew– you used to write at theknicksblog right?

    Anyway – been thinking about MWP coming to us and I’m really excited– he’s obviously not the player he was, but if he can even be a poor man’s Shane Battier that would be huge for this team – we need more defensive minded guys that play unselfishly. MWP is (or at least was) a very underrated passer- was regularly among the top 10-15 SFs in assist rate and assist percentage (until the 12-13 seasons when he barely ever handled the ball). He generally has had very low turnover numbers (generally single-digit TO-R by Hollinger stat page), and like Ruru has written, has great +/- numbers especially on the defensive end. He’s still generally in the top 10 SFs in steals/40 every year despite not really being known as the gambling type.

    I just hope this actually happens — too much lead-in to fall apart now. Assuming it does, then we can concentrate all our energy on finding a big, whether it’s Kenyon or someone else. I must say though, that I’ve really liked what I’ve seen out of Jeremy Tyler. Need to get that guy into camp.

    Re: the 2 PG lineups – I can see Woodson mixing and matching his starting lineups depending on matchups. Against the Pacers/Bulls we’ll probably see a big lineup with Tyson on Hibbert/Noah and MWP banging with West/Boozer. Or he could go Tyson/Bargnani and drag those guys out of the paint. Against the normal-size teams, I’d still like to see Raymond/PP/Shump/Melo/Tyson as the starting lineup.

    btw if MWP does come, it would be interesting (in small doses) to see some small lineups with Bargnani at the 5 rather than Tyson, surrounded by MWP, Melo, Shump, and one of the PGs. Figure with MWP and Shump there’s a good defensive presence on the floor, and we could play 5-out with that kind of lineup. Would be an interesting look against some of the teams that like to pack the paint.

  2. Frank

    Meanwhile – does anyone think we should offer a player-friendly vet minimum contract to Devin Harris? Apparently will be out 2-3 months with that toe dislocation which caused Dallas to walk away. I assume that there is some worry about his recovery– otherwise I can’t imagine Dallas not just letting him work through it and come in midseason if necessary – that’s a great $ number for Harris from a team perspective. I could imagine guaranteeing him 2 years (ie. 1 year + 2nd year player option). Our depth is such that we could afford to let him rest until after the ASB if he needed.

    Chances are we go with Toure Murry at the 3rd PG but if you could possibly get someone like Harris that would be amazing.

  3. Frank

    btw excellent article at SI re: the Mavs, and what happens when you clear the decks for a big FA signing but those FAs don’t want to come. Should be a cautionary tale for our team post-14-15 season, and for all those that didn’t want to sign Amare etc. in the hopes that CP3 would come eventually. Obviously Amare’s contract hasn’t worked out, but I’m not sure the Calderon/Monta Ellis pupu platter would have been any easier to stomach. Their best defender is the 45 year old Shawn Marion, and they still don’t have a center.

    http://nba.si.com/2013/07/13/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis/?sct=hp_wr_a3&eref=sihp

  4. Frank O.

    Frank:
    I have to agree about the clearing the decks approach. We saw what happened when we went after Lebron – a worthy mission – but a disappointment to a certain degree, however much I like Amare.
    But I would rather have the space, given we likely lose Amare, and have the ability to reload perhaps with younger players.
    Both Chandler and Melo will be good, but at the back end of their careers in two years. I will be interested to see how Melo holds up at the 4.
    I still have grave misgivings about using Melo at the 4 the majority of the time. He had a great season there. But I’m convinced that his great numbers had more to do with his new resolve to play more within a system – as well as having a solid supporting case – than it was him just playing the 4. As much of a mismatch he causes at the 4, he creates enormous mismatches at the three as well, being 6’8 and very strong. Not many 3s are able to play him straight up, perhaps MWP interestingly enough.
    He and Amare playing together started to show real signs of success. Particularly with Amare’s low post game much improved.
    Further, big PFs were trouble for him, although he was game. I’m not sure I want my best offensive players, however, pounding against a big with a significant weight and size advantage. I’d much rather him save that energy for the offensive side.
    I asked ruru in a recent post whether he thought Melo’s body could hold up over the long haul pounding with 4s for a few seasons. Never heard back; I’m sure he’s busy. No big.
    After all the Melo bashing, I wouldn’t be surprised if he tunes out from time to time. lol

  5. Frank

    Frank O.: As much of a mismatch he causes at the 4, he creates enormous mismatches at the three as well, being 6’8 and very strong. Not many 3s are able to play him straight up, perhaps MWP interestingly enough.

    Definitely agree – and maybe that’s what his summer sessions with Hakeem are about — he’s expecting to play a little more 3 this year, and so needs more polished moves for guys down low, rather than blowing by 4’s off the dribble. It’s just great that he has that flexibility — and I really do think MWP (if he comes) will be guarding a lot of the bruising 4s when he and Melo are both in the game.

  6. d-mar

    On another topic (what can I say, it’s July) I was listening to yet another “expert” extolling the virtues of the Brooklyn Nets (60 wins anyone?) and thought about another way to look at this new super team. The Celtics were 41-40 last year with a starting lineup (most nights) of Pierce, Garnett, Bass, Green and Bradley. Now let’s substitute Lopez, Johnson and Williams for the last 3. Big upgrade at PG obviously, although Bradley is a much better defender than D-Will. Green vs. Johnson? Maybe a slight edge to Johnson. And Lopez is a much better scorer than Bass, but a worse defender and rebounder. So does substituting D-Will, Johnson and Lopez for Bradley, Green and Bass get you 19 more wins? or 15?

    I guess my point is that people are forgetting how average Pierce and Garnett were last season, and Pierce specifically was dreadful in the playoffs. I’m not buying the hype, maybe I’ll be proven wrong.

  7. Frank

    @6 – I actually think the Nets will win low-mid 50s in the regular season this year — but only because KG/Pierce are definitely not going to push themselves during the regular season. I do think they’ll be very dangerous in the playoffs when they can increase everyone’s minutes and cut their rotation to DWill, JJ, Pierce, KG, Lopez, Terry, Kirilenko, and Blatche. There’s relatively little overlap in skill sets, all 4 of their non-Lopez starters are good passers, and it’s an old/slow but REALLY long/big team. They’ll have the size advantage on just about every team except for maybe Atlanta. KG and Lopez are both good rim protectors, and complement each other pretty well overall – KG takes the harder defensive assignments letting Lopez roam and block shots. KG is more of an outside shooter now on O and Lopez is pretty good near the hoop. They are going to be a load.

    On paper at least, there really aren’t many weaknesses in this team. They’ve got 4 pretty good 3 point shooters betwen DWill, JJ, Pierce, and Terry. They’ve got at least 3 guys that can initiate the offense or “create a shot” as the clock goes down in DW/JJ/PP. They’ve got two bona fide post guys in Lopez and Blatche. They’ve got good passers. They could use an ace defender in the backcourt, but that’s pretty much it assuming health (big if).

    Re: Pierce last playoffs – yes he was awful, but he was basically asked to carry the team on his back the last few months of the year and during that Knicks series. He’ll be way better with less responsibility IMHO.

  8. Frank

    sorry meant they’ll have a size/length advantage on every team but Indy – and maybe even Indy since KG is way bigger than West.

  9. Hubert

    Frank:
    btw excellent article at SI re: the Mavs, and what happens when you clear the decks for a big FA signing but those FAs don’t want to come. Should be a cautionary tale for our team post-14-15 season, and for all those that didn’t want to sign Amare etc. in the hopes that CP3 would come eventually.Obviously Amare’s contract hasn’t worked out, but I’m not sure the Calderon/Monta Ellis pupu platter would have been any easier to stomach.Their best defender is the 45 year old Shawn Marion, and they still don’t have a center.

    http://nba.si.com/2013/07/13/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis/?sct=hp_wr_a3&eref=sihp

    I feel like we’ll be reading a lot these articles next summer when the Lakers whiff on Melo & LeBron.

  10. Frank

    Hubert: I feel like we’ll be reading a lot these articles next summer when the Lakers whiff on Melo & LeBron.

    Hubert: I feel like we’ll be reading a lot these articles next summer when the Lakers whiff on Melo & LeBron.

    I think the Lakers are still the Lakers to most players — it’s still SoCal, it’s still hot girls on the beach in a great city with great weather. I don’t think LBJ or Melo are going (Melo is staying and LBJ is either CLE or MIA IMHO) — but considering they will have, what, $49MM in potential cap room, they will be able to really overpay for some guys — especially for restricted guys. I can see them making a HUGE push for Paul George, who will be a RFA and is from Palmdale, a short drive from the Staples Center. I can also see them making a run at someone like Larry Sanders, who I’m sure will be dying to get out of Milwaukee like everyone else is. I imagine that Indy will match PG no matter what (their cap is squeaky clean except for Gerald Green), but would still be an interesting decision.

  11. DS

    Frank:
    btw excellent article at SI re: the Mavs, and what happens when you clear the decks for a big FA signing but those FAs don’t want to come. Should be a cautionary tale for our team post-14-15 season, and for all those that didn’t want to sign Amare etc. in the hopes that CP3 would come eventually.Obviously Amare’s contract hasn’t worked out, but I’m not sure the Calderon/Monta Ellis pupu platter would have been any easier to stomach.Their best defender is the 45 year old Shawn Marion, and they still don’t have a center.

    http://nba.si.com/2013/07/13/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis/?sct=hp_wr_a3&eref=sihp

    The Greg Oden thing is interesting. Obviously it’s not a safe assumption that he’ll be able to contribute anything at all but Ellis, Calderon, Oden, Dirk, Marion/Crowder could compete in the West.

  12. SeeWhyDee77

    At first I thought bringin MWP in could keep Melo fresh as I was thinkin he should go back to his customary SF spot. But the more I think about it, a starting 5 of Chandler-Melo-MWP-Shump-Felton sounds great as a tone setter. And then a combo of Bargnani-Stat-JR with Prigioni feeding them sounds scary off the bench if Woodson can find the right blend of minutes. A starting 5 of Chandler-Stat-Melo-Shump-Felton with Bargnani-MWP-Smith-Prigioni spelling them sounds damn good also. Either way, Woodson probably has to to coach this bunch without regards to salary and ego because a very talented player or 2 may not get a whole lot of burn. If MWP signs, I wouldn’t mind bringin in Tyler, Jennings, and Toure from the summer league squad. They look worth developing along with Leslie. There is hope for the future of this franchise after all..cap hell be damned lol

  13. ptmilo

    d-mar:
    On another topic (what can I say, it’s July) I was listening to yet another “expert” extolling the virtues of the Brooklyn Nets (60 wins anyone?) and thought about another way to look at this new super team. The Celtics were 41-40 last year with a starting lineup (most nights) of Pierce, Garnett, Bass, Green and Bradley. Now let’s substitute Lopez, Johnson and Williams for the last 3. Big upgrade at PG obviously, although Bradley is a much better defender than D-Will. Green vs. Johnson? Maybe a slight edge to Johnson. And Lopez is a much better scorer than Bass, but a worse defender and rebounder. So does substituting D-Will, Johnson and Lopez for Bradley, Green and Bass get you 19 more wins? or 15?

    I guess my point is that people are forgetting how average Pierce and Garnett were last season, and Pierce specifically was dreadful in the playoffs. I’m not buying the hype, maybe I’ll be proven wrong.

    I think you will be proven wrong. It doesn’t make much sense to talk about the Celt’s overall record last year when Garnett and Pierce didn’t play anywhere near all their minutes. Lineups with Garnett/Pierce and Garnett/Pierce/Terry were much better than the Celtics overall -0.5 PPP, running about 3 net PPP, and this was not a Rondo effect. That is actually better than the Net themselves were last year, despite a mediocre Celtic supporting case for much of the year.

    It’s also not true that Lopez is a worse rebounder or defender than Bass, in my opinion. Lopez is a better rebounder per 36 in his career and was a much better rebounder last year than Bass, despite much higher offensive usage. I also think that Bass is a sometimes overrated defensive player who gets a lot of credit for playing well defensively relative to his very mediocre quickness and length, which still leaves him not particularly effective. Lopez, meanwhile, is…

  14. jon abbey

    DS: The Greg Oden thing is interesting.Obviously it’s not a safe assumption that he’ll be able to contribute anything at all but Ellis, Calderon, Oden, Dirk, Marion/Crowder could compete in the West.

    compete for what? maybe the 8th spot assuming Dirk actually holds up, maybe not even that.

  15. thenamestsam

    jon abbey: compete for what? maybe the 8th spot assuming Dirk actually holds up, maybe not even that.

    Seriously. If Dirk still has another all-NBA type year in him and Oden is something other than a total zero and they can get Ellis to play well that team might, might be able to fight for the 8th seed out West. They’re not a threat to anyone though. The West is still stacked – the only playoff teams that are clearly weaker are the Nuggets and Lakers. OKC, Spurs, Clippers, Memphis, Houston, Golden State are all sure fire playoff teams who are a definite cut above that Dallas group in my opinion.

  16. Garson

    Not a big fan of Ellis… however i dont know if there is a fan of Ellis out there.. other then Monta himself.

    However, He has never been on a team which he was the clear #2 option. playing next to dirk can only improve his percetages as he has no choice to shoot less and hopefully better shots.

    He also has never played for a coach that is close to the level of Rick Carlisle.

    Check out terrys shooting numbers in atlanta and then in Dallas under Carlisle. Significant improvement is an understatement. If Carlisle can do to Ellis what he did to Terry, i think they have a decent team.

  17. DS

    thenamestsam: OKC, Spurs, Clippers, Memphis, Houston, Golden State are all sure fire playoff teams who are a definite cut above that Dallas group in my opinion.

    I agree with you guys. By “compete,” I meant “perhaps have a season like Golden State just had,” not win the WCF. And if Oden was signed and healthy, which I understand hasn’t happened since 2010… Crowder could end up being very good; and I think Calderon, in spite of his lax D, will be a nice upgrade from playing Collison 25 mins/night with Mayo and Mike James backing him up. Ellis for Mayo might even be a downgrade in efficiency.

  18. thenamestsam

    Garson:
    Not a big fan of Ellis… however i dont know if there is a fan of Ellis out there.. other then Monta himself.

    However, He has never been on a team which he was the clear #2 option. playing next to dirk can only improve his percetages as he has no choice to shoot less and hopefully better shots.

    He also has never played for a coach that is close to the level of Rick Carlisle.

    Check out terrys shooting numbers in atlanta and then in Dallas under Carlisle. Significant improvement is an understatement. If Carlisle can do to Ellis what he did to Terry, i think they have a decent team.

    I actually like Ellis’ chances to have a big improvement next year and I still don’t think that team will do much of anything. I agree with you 100% on the Ellis-Terry comparison. Ellis-Dirk pick and rolls/pops are potentially extremely deadly and if they can get Ellis to try to fit in rather than try to stand out he can be a valuable offensive weapon.

    But they’re going to be an abomination on defense. Calderon-Ellis backcourt is as bad as it gets. They’re two of the absolute worst defenders at their positions in the league. Dirk is thoroughly mediocre on that end. Marion has definitely lost a step from his best. Crowder is decent but a bit of a tweener – not really big enough to guard bigs and not really quick enough to guard wings. He’s far from lock-down. And Oden is pretty impossible to say. I guess in theory there’s still maybe a dominant defensive big in that body somewhere, but even if you can unlock it (and I’d say it’s far from likely despite the fact that I’m rooting like hell for the guy) it’s only going to be for 20-25 minutes a night presumably. Depends how they fill out the rotation obviously, but I think it’s going to be hard for them to be as good on O as they will be bad on D.

  19. Vinny L.

    er:
    Melo and company have earned MR Dolan quite a bit since 2011

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/kurtbadenhausen/2013/07/15/values-of-cowboys-dodgers-and-knicks-soar-despite-playoff-failures/

    Franchise worth from ~680 mil to ~1.1 Bill

    And these spoiled brats talk about they don’t have money? Lol…

    Can you guys chill out…

    I like the MWP move to New York but we’re not getting prime Lebron or prime Jordan. Its a good vet pick up that fell in Knicks managements lap. They don’t get credit for MWP wanting to end his career in his home town ballin with Melo.

    Do you guys realize what we could’ve did with the full $3.18 million mini mid-level? Maybe get a young solid banger down low (no homo) to backup Tyson or K-Mart? Dalembert? Or a PG who could improve our penetration and transition game? I won’t mention the PG’s name again since you guys get annoyed when I do lol.

  20. thenamestsam

    Vinny L.:
    Maybe get a young solid banger down low (no homo)

    Ugh, please cut this shit out. Your comments are generally inane, but that’s fine, I’m sure there are plenty of people who think my comments are dumb too. But please, please don’t make them offensive as well. This garbage has no place on this board (or anywhere else for that matter.

  21. Vinny L.

    Wow so this is what the cowards use to ban me with:

    And these spoiled brats talk about they don’t have money? Lol…

    Can you guys chill out…

    I like the MWP move to New York but we’re not getting prime Lebron or prime Jordan. Its a good vet pick up that fell in Knicks managements lap. They don’t get credit for MWP wanting to end his career in his home town ballin with Melo.

    Do you guys realize what we could’ve did with the full $3.18 million mini mid-level? Maybe get a young solid banger down low (no homo) to backup Tyson or K-Mart? Dalembert? Or a PG who could improve our penetration and transition game? I won’t mention the PG’s name again since you guys get annoyed when I do lol.

  22. Keniman Shumpwalker

    thenamestsam: Ugh, please cut this shit out. Your comments are generally inane, but that’s fine, I’m sure there are plenty of people who think my comments are dumb too. But please, please don’t make them offensive as well. This garbage has no place on this board (or anywhere else for that matter.

    Not to mention the fact that the no homo comment didn’t really even make much sense given its placement. This is almost as bad as Dog Rufus. Almost. Further, Vinny, you keep talking about being banned…yet you’re still posting (and posting nonsense, at that)…methinks you may have skipped class the day they taught about what the word “ban” means, both within the blogosphere and without.

  23. Vinny L.

    You guys put Mike Vick in jail for dog fighting. When you guys kill animals live on tv?! ESPN lol… So I really get irritated when you try to act like you know our sport.

  24. Keniman Shumpwalker

    Vinny L.:
    You guys put Mike Vick in jail for dog fighting. When you guys kill animals live on tv?! ESPN lol… So I really get irritated when you try to act like you know our sport.

    Que?

  25. EB

    Vinny L.:
    You guys put Mike Vick in jail for dog fighting. When you guys kill animals live on tv?! ESPN lol… So I really get irritated when you try to act like you know our sport.

    ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    PS. In no world does Nate Robinson improve a team. He doesn’t make them worse, necessarily, but he definitely does not improve them except very marginally.

  26. Shad0wF0x

    Can we just ignore him as a group and disregard his posts?

    Anyway I’d be satisfied if we started the season with this.

    PG: Felton, Prigioni
    SG: Shumpert, Smith, Hardaway J.R., Murry
    SF: Anthony, World Peace, Leslie
    PF: Stoudemire, Martin, Bargiani, Jennings
    C: Chandler, Tyler

  27. SeeWhyDee77

    Ok Vinny..thas enuf..chill son..it’s over..lets talk Blue and Orange. How about the new uni? I think it’s gonna be dope.

  28. TDM

    Shad0wF0x: Can we just ignore him as a group and disregard his posts?Anyway I’d be satisfied if we started the season with this.PG: Felton, PrigioniSG: Shumpert, Smith, Hardaway J.R., MurrySF: Anthony, World Peace, LesliePF: Stoudemire, Martin, Bargiani, JenningsC: Chandler, Tyler

    Agree with everything said, however, I’m not sold on Jennings. He is uber-athletic, but don’t know how much rebounding we can expect from him, and he seems foul prone. Personally, I think I’d rather bring back Jorts, who can shoot it from outside, but also has an extra gear of hustle.

  29. Keniman Shumpwalker

    If Chris Smith even sniffs the 15-man roster I will be offended. He’s really god-awful. Murry will stick. Tyler probably as well. Jennings is worth a training camp invite, most likely, and I’d like to see more of Vargas as well. He’s got a beautiful stroke for a 6’11” dude.

  30. SeeWhyDee77

    O hell yes..I too will be offended if Chris Smith gets serious consideration at this point. He needs a lot of work..even more comin off of injury. I like Jennings but my only concern with him is when he finally got his minutes in college his stats were kinda underwhelming though stats don’t always tell the story. Don’t know for sure how many open roster spots we have left, but if the roster is rounded out with Leslie, MWP, Tyler, Jennings, Toure Murry, and a 3rd PG like Boobie Gibson I think we’ll be fine. And better than we were in the short term and long term than we were last season.

  31. Vinny L.

    Keniman Shumpwalker:
    If Chris Smith even sniffs the 15-man roster I will be offended. He’s really god-awful. Murry will stick. Tyler probably as well. Jennings is worth a training camp invite, most likely, and I’d like to see more of Vargas as well. He’s got a beautiful stroke for a 6’11? dude.

    Not sure if Toure Murry fits the bill, but I swear to god if Chris Smith makes it to training camp after they failed to free up some money for Nate, i’ll quietly root for Knicks, but I will be so done with this organization.

  32. Keniman Shumpwalker

    SeeWhyDee77:
    O hell yes..I too will be offended if Chris Smith gets serious consideration at this point. He needs a lot of work..even more comin off of injury. I like Jennings but my only concern with him is when he finally got his minutes in college his stats were kinda underwhelming though stats don’t always tell the story. Don’t know for sure how many open roster spots we have left, but if the roster is rounded out with Leslie, MWP, Tyler, Jennings, Toure Murry, and a 3rd PG like Boobie Gibson I think we’ll be fine. And better than we were in the short term and long term than we were last season.

    Yeah I knew nothing of Jennings coming in but have been impressed so far. Not enough to consider him a potential rotation guy, same with Vargas, but I’d like to see more of both of them and that’s what training camp invites are for. I’m with you that we still need a 3rd PG, even beyond Murry, and I don’t hate the Boobie idea. Would like someone who can shoot off the dribble, a drum I’ve been beating since before the draft. I’d like to have someone who can adequately run the PnR while maintaining the threat of a pull-up jumper (something Raymond doesn’t do well and Pablo doesn’t do at all). Anything to keep defenses from feeling so comfortable going under screens and collapsing on the dive man.

  33. Keniman Shumpwalker

    http://vorped.com/bball/index.php/player/shotchart/888-Aaron-Brooks/season/2012-2013-REG?ui=zone14

    Hope this link works. It’s Aaron Brooks’ shot chart from last year and, while I’ve never been enamored with his game (read: non-PG-PG, chucker, etc), he shoots well enough from mid-range to warrant consideration for that 3rd PG role. Does anyone have the ability to pull up more detailed shooting statistics in regards to FG% when shooting off the dribble as opposed to spotting up? I read somewhere recently that Beno Udrih is actually a terrific shooter off the bounce from the mid-range but can find no data to back this up. Would like to know if he’s worth a look as the 3rd PG as well.

  34. thenamestsam

    Shad0wF0x:
    Can we just ignore him as a group and disregard his posts?

    Anyway I’d be satisfied if we started the season with this.

    PG: Felton, Prigioni
    SG: Shumpert, Smith, Hardaway J.R., Murry
    SF: Anthony, World Peace, Leslie
    PF: Stoudemire, Martin, Bargiani, Jennings
    C: Chandler, Tyler

    I don’t think there’s room for two project bigs on the final roster in Tyler and Jennings, not for a competing team with so many old and fragile bigs. Chandler is fragile, Kenyon is old, Stat is fragile and horrible on defense, and the same goes for Bargs. In my opinion we have to have a fifth big who has proven himself at the NBA level, even if he’s mediocre.

  35. Keniman Shumpwalker

    thenamestsam: I don’t think there’s room for two project bigs on the final roster in Tyler and Jennings, not for a competing team with so many old and fragile bigs. Chandler is fragile, Kenyon is old, Stat is fragile and horrible on defense, and the same goes for Bargs. In my opinion we have to have a fifth big who has proven himself at the NBA level, even if he’s mediocre.

    I would agree with this…Cole Aldrich? Tyrus Thomas? The pickings are slim when it comes to bigs who would accept the vets minimum and consent to, at best, a tenuous hold on a rotation spot.

  36. SeeWhyDee77

    I read, I think on espn, where MWP may consider the Clips. Can’t knock that move because the Clips are loaded. They say the Knicks can offer him more money, but I don’t think that should be an Issue since he’s still gettin ALOT of money from the Lakers. I think it’s more about fit. Both teams can offer a starting spot. But I think he Knicks advantage is, we’re his home team, and we offer more rope on offense if he starts (gotta think that Blake, CP3, and Redick will get more shots plus they have Crawford as a 6th man). He, if we go with Chandler-Melo-MWP-Shumpert-Felton as the starters, should be allowed to do things that he does really well with more frequency. I know he relishes guarding the opposition’s best players so I know he would be salivating goin up against Paul George-LeBron-Deng-Rose-Williams-Bosh-Pierce for east supremacy. The hometown thing is key though. He has to be sold on finishing his career as a champion in his hometown alongside another hometown hero in Melo. With a former Knick as coach. C’mon Grunwald, make this happen already!!

  37. Vinny L.

    SeeWhyDee77:
    Ok Vinny..thas enuf..chill son..it’s over..lets talk Blue and Orange. How about the new uni? I think it’s gonna be dope.

    I like the new uniforms but some people have been saying that they look like prison clothes. So I’m definitely not down with projecting that image of black men in jail uniforms around the world IMO.

  38. SeeWhyDee77

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I would agree with this…Cole Aldrich? Tyrus Thomas? The pickings are slim when it comes to bigs who would accept the vets minimum and consent to, at best, a tenuous hold on a rotation spot.

    Cole Aldrich never got any real playing time..but he would be great to consider in place of Jennings. I like Tyrus Thomas but I don’t trust him on this team..especially if we add MWP. MWP and JR have proven to be coachable despite their..eccentricity. Tyrus Thomas? Not so much. But would love his athleticism at the end of the bench. Hell..why not consider JJ at that spot if Jennings doesn’t make it? He’s great in a role as a glue guy and a defender. He’s a little older than I would like at the end of the bench becuz I feel like we need guys we can develop at the end of the bench, but JJ’s not a bad choice

  39. Donnie Walsh

    Vinny L.: I swear to god if Chris Smith makes it to training camp I will be so done with this organization.

    I hope Chris Smith makes it to training camp.

  40. Vinny L.

    EB: ????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

    PS. In no world does Nate Robinson improve a team. He doesn’t make them worse, necessarily, but he definitely does not improve them except very marginally.

    Chicago? Playoffs 2013?

  41. SeeWhyDee77

    Vinny L.: I like the new uniforms but some people have been saying that they look like prison clothes. So I’m definitely not down with projecting that image of black men in jail uniforms around the world IMO.

    lol..yea they do a little. The Christmas uni did too even moreso..i hated those things. But I’ve been wanting to see a orange uni with blue lettering for a while.

  42. thenamestsam

    Keniman Shumpwalker: I would agree with this…Cole Aldrich? Tyrus Thomas? The pickings are slim when it comes to bigs who would accept the vets minimum and consent to, at best, a tenuous hold on a rotation spot.

    Yeah I think we may have to content ourselves with guys who are willing to accept that they’re not going to be in the rotation. But for those guys I think we can at least offer them higher expected PT than they might get most other places with all of the injury risks. I like Aldrich and don’t like Tyrus for the same reasons voiced by SeeWhyDee above, Tyrus is just more trouble than he’s worth for a 5th big in my opinion.

    I also wouldn’t mind Earl Barron for that spot. He still looked competent in the brief glimpse we got last year and he seems like the type who might be content to sit on the end of the bench when everyone is healthy.

  43. Hubert

    Elton Brand signed w Hawks.

    I hope we can get Martin done soon bc we’ll be up shit’s creek w/o a strong backup for Tyson.

    I feel like if we’re withholding the rest of the mini-MLE from him bc we expect him to take the vets min we could be in trouble.

  44. Shad0wF0x

    I’ve never seen Cole Aldrich play so I don’t really have an opinion on him. That being said, if his role is a hard counter to Roy Hibbert then I wouldn’t be opposed to it.

  45. Keniman Shumpwalker

    thenamestsam: Yeah I think we may have to content ourselves with guys who are willing to accept that they’re not going to be in the rotation. But for those guys I think we can at least offer them higher expected PT than they might get most other places with all of the injury risks. I like Aldrich and don’t like Tyrus for the same reasons voiced by SeeWhyDee above, Tyrus is just more trouble than he’s worth for a 5th big in my opinion.

    I also wouldn’t mind Earl Barron for that spot. He still looked competent in the brief glimpse we got last year and he seems like the type who might be content to sit on the end of the bench when everyone is healthy.

    Agree on Barron and Aldrich. As for Thomas…yeah, we probably have already surpassed our Mercurial Personalities Quotient (I’m assuming, probably foolishly, that MWP is a lock). I’ve always liked Barron and I was at that last game of the year against the Hawks and yeah, he does enough to warrant a spot as an injury-insurance big.

  46. Keniman Shumpwalker

    …although, the difference between Barron and a guy like Jennings/Tyler/Vargas is probably negligible so whatever. Purely for entertainment value, I’d like Jorts back in the fold.

  47. jon abbey

    done deal!

    Adrian Wojnarowski ?@WojYahooNBA 1m

    Metta World Peace has reached an agreement in principle on a two-year deal with the New York Knicks, league source tells Y! Sports.

  48. EB

    I like Metta. We struggle keeping our cool against the more physical teams. Metta will help us against the physical teams, but he certainly won’t help us keep our cool.

  49. Keniman Shumpwalker

    jon abbey:
    done deal!

    Adrian Wojnarowski ?@WojYahooNBA 1m

    Metta World Peace has reached an agreement in principle on a two-year deal with the New York Knicks, league source tells Y! Sports.

    Somewhere, in a small town in the French countryside, a small burden was just lifted off of Fredric Weis’ well rested shoulders. Welcome home, Ron Ron.

  50. alsep73

    Excellent. We’ll get made fun of for all the eccentrics on the roster (especially if KMart re-signs), but we needed a guy exactly like Artest to give us 20 minutes a night or so at the 3.

    Roster definites as of now:

    PG: Felton, Prigioni
    SG: Shumpert, Smith, Hardaway
    SF: Artest, Leslie
    PF: Anthony, Stoudemire, Bargnani
    C: Chandler

    That leaves four open spots. Hopefully KMart returns to back up Tyson, we go with Toure Murry and Jeremy Tyler as a couple of extra developmental types at the end of the bench (assuming Woodson wants 3, counting Leslie), and one spot left for whoever will take the rest of the mini-MLE.

    Who knows how well Bargnani will play in this system, how much Amar’e can play, whether Tyson can turn on the Wayback Machine, etc., but in theory, I like this roster.

  51. EB

    I’m interested to see how the minutes and lineups shake out. Woodson has a ton of options IF everyone is healthy. Front court is crowded. They’ll probably experiment with some combination of Bargs, Stat, Melo in the front court at the 4 & 5.

  52. Keniman Shumpwalker

    alsep73:
    Excellent. We’ll get made fun of for all the eccentrics on the roster (especially if KMart re-signs), but we needed a guy exactly like Artest to give us 20 minutes a night or so at the 3.

    Roster definites as of now:

    PG: Felton, Prigioni
    SG: Shumpert, Smith, Hardaway
    SF: Artest, Leslie
    PF: Anthony, Stoudemire, Bargnani
    C: Chandler

    That leaves four open spots. Hopefully KMart returns to back up Tyson, we go with Toure Murry and Jeremy Tyler as a couple of extra developmental types at the end of the bench (assuming Woodson wants 3, counting Leslie), and one spot left for whoever will take the rest of the mini-MLE.

    Who knows how well Bargnani will play in this system, how much Amar’e can play, whether Tyson can turn on the Wayback Machine, etc., but in theory, I like this roster.

    Yeah, and while I was against giving up assets for Bargnani, I don’t believe he is a lock to be subtraction by addition. So, given that, I don’t see how we’re in any worse shape than the team that won 54 games last year, and, with better luck in regards to health, we could be better. Given our financial constraints coming into this offseason, I’m not unhappy with where we sit right now.

  53. Garson

    Love the Signing… The only thing that can make this better is a formal name change back to Ron Artest.

  54. JK47

    Psyched about Artest. He should start at the 3, and before long he’ll be playing 30 minutes a night. We just picked up 2,000+ minutes of quality NBA play essentially for free. The two-year contract is the perfect length.

    With a full season of Shump and now the addition of MWP, this team should look pretty different on the defensive end. Bring K-Mart back and the Knicks are actually a pretty balanced team.

  55. domiknick

    Garson:
    Love the Signing… The only thing that can make this better is a formal name change back to Ron Artest.

    Are you saying you’re not excited for your “World Peace” Knicks jersey? Haha

  56. EB

    JK47:
    Psyched about Artest.He should start at the 3, and before long he’ll be playing 30 minutes a night.We just picked up 2,000+ minutes of quality NBA play essentially for free.The two-year contract is the perfect length.

    Then what do we do with Stat/Bargs

  57. Hubert

    Well. I’m nervous about the unique challenges he will pose. And I’m excited about what he can bring.

    Having said that, I’m very concerned about how he affects us offensively. Do we really want Artest in 3-point friendly system?

    The thought of him and Shump guarding the perimeter is enticing but I can’t see how that works offensively. Assuming they’re surrounded by Melo, Felton, Chandler…if the Felton/Chandler PnR isn’t working that’s basically Melo by himself.

    This renders the AB acquisition virtually pointless, as well. What is he, our 4th forward when Amare is healthy? We gave up a 1 for that? That’s water under the bridge though.

    Hopefully one of these forwards is always injured bc that’s a hard situation for Woody to manage.

  58. JK47

    EB: Then what do we do with Stat/Bargs

    Let Bargs and Stat run a platoon of sorts as backup scoring 4’s. If you want low-post scoring, send out Stat. If you want floor spacing, send out Bargs. Stat can’t play a lot of minutes anyway and Bargs probably shouldn’t be playing lots of minutes because he’s a bad player.

  59. SeeWhyDee77

    JK47: Let Bargs and Stat run a platoon of sorts as backup scoring 4?s. If you want low-post scoring, send out Stat. If you want floor spacing, send out Bargs. Stat can’t play a lot of minutes anyway and Bargs probably shouldn’t be playing lots of minutes because he’s a bad player.

    I think they’d be a nice high/low post off the bench. Defense would suck but that combo will keep Chandler and Melo fresh I we can keep Stat/Bargs healthy enough to give us 20-25 mpg. All kindsa room for JR to operate as well..Prigioni too. I believe as long as we’re utilizing Stat/Bargs properly on that second unit with a pass 1st guy like Prigioni, we could get a bonus in a more efficient JR.

  60. Unreason

    Garson:
    Love the Signing… The only thing that can make this better is a formal name change back to Ron Artest.

    Or a change to Mega Knooklier Disaster.

    I’ll get over it soon enough. I thought it would take months to get use to KMart. It took about 15 min.

    I’m not sure he’ll help much on O but he’ll clearly help balance out Amare’s and Bargnani’s deficiencies. In a way I think having him and Leslie get regular PT could be good because it might help prevent lazy D habits that come from over reliance on the hot hands of high usage guys. To form a defensive identity that serves them well in the post season I think they need to learn to associated Ws with almost never taking a possession off on D.

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