Here is how I look at it: There are zero hall of fame eligible players who have made 6 all-NBA teams and not made the HOF. McGrady is at 6 right now, and will likely make one or two more before he retires. Love him or hate him, he is likely going to end up there. The same goes for Iverson.

I couldn’t agree more. That we even have to worry he might trade a good player for Artest, a guy for whom there is NO trade market… it’s like we have to stay awake all night because we’re living with a madman with his finger on the button (to mix metaphors). Who needs the aggravation?

And Frank, no one’s projecting” David Lee to be an excellent player, we’re pointing out that he already is an excellent player, the best player on the team (granted, being the best player on the Knicks might not be something to write home about).

A Sweetney comparison is unfair because:
a) DL is a much better player than Sweets ever was
b) It was pretty weird that Sweetney fell off the map; there’s no reason to think DL will get worse.
c) there was a reason Sweets got worse – he was incredibly fat and even when he was at his skinniest he couldn’t play enough D to stay on the floor

Don’t know where you came up with Stromile Swift…

As for Tracy McGrady, I don’t know if he’s in the hall of fame but he’s been a lot better than Vince Carter. He’s not a great 3-point shooter and is only an average defender but he’s carried a bunch of 50+ win teams.

Caleb–
?David Lee is a very good role player,?

c?mon? haven?t we been through this before?

For all his statistics I have yet to see anything from David Lee that defines him as anything more than a good role player. Remember, your same stats have projected Mike Sweetney, Stromile Swift, and others into great players and clearly they are not. He’s a limited player that might not even be as good as Reggie Evans, except he is a much better free throw shooter. So to call that a “great” pick might be a stretch.

?Nate is plus/minus,?

plus minus meaning not great not bad.

Sounds like a perfect fit for our Knicks. I’m sure Isiah’s on the phone right now offering David Lee and next year’s lottery pick.

Advance scouts chart every play call of their opponents. They see the team’s hand signal, and then they know where everyone should go. And then they watch. Sometimes what they see is that some players are breaking plays. Ian Thomsen of Sports Illustrated: “‘When Theus calls the play and it isn’t for [Ron] Artest, he’s so reluctant to let them get into a play he’s not involved with,” said an NBA advance scout who has been studying Artest recently. ‘He’ll be running down the floor and he should go through to the opposite corner, but instead he’ll turn and post up. He might be open and he definitely is good enough that he can be effective in a quick post-up, but that’s not the play. I can’t tell you how many times that happened. He is playing like a very selfish player right now. Maybe he doesn’t like the team, or he doesn’t think the team is good and so he has to put up numbers to make up for it. I knew he was a time bomb in the past, but I always respected his game. But he has gone down a notch or two because of the selfish attitude.’”

He’s almost guaranteed a spot in the hall of fame even with his shortcomings in the playoffs.

Unless you’re a contender, looking to fill a role… I think you’re always better off with the high-risk, high-reward player — the young guys.

That’s one reason I like the Wilson Chandler pick. Don’t know that he’ll be a superstar, but when the numbers-crunchers looked at his college career, they had him in the 10-15 range… and he looked good over the summer. So I think he’ll be excellent value at #23.

YOu can also see how international players have been undervalued… almost all the stars picked in the 20s came from overseas, and on a lower tier, guys like Anthony Parker.

It’s the Moneyball theory… you have to stay ahead of the curve. West did with Kobe, Isiah did with McGrady. Eventually the rest of the league figures it out… but the smart GMs shift their sights overseas, for value.

What do you think is the next undervalued frontier? I nominate China, or college seniors.

Well, yes. And at #8.

“David Lee is a very good role player,”

c’mon… haven’t we been through this before?

“Nate is plus/minus,”

?

“Balkman is a very limited role player,”

In the limited minutes of his career he looks like he’s already an above-average NBA starter – terrific defender, limited but efficient on offense and the best rebounder of any small forward in the league. But I’ll shut up until we get a coach smart enough to put him on the floor.

“Mardy Collins is unplayable.”

True dat – and bust was all over him from the start.

“Channing Frye is a disaster especially considering that most fans probably were hoping for Bynum, Danny Granger, or Gerald Green”

Yeah, Frye was a bad pick but defensible at the time. Bynum… I mean, a month before the draft, he hadn’t even declared… a week before, he was pegged for the 20s. #8 looked like a stretch… Much credit to the Laker dudes, but I don’t remember a lot of people calling for Bynum over Frye.

As for other picks… don’t forget Marcus Camby. A lot of GMs blow the layups – he didn’t.

“Jerry West – I will excuse the Memphis era draft picks.”

Why? He didn’t pick a decent player for four years… that doesn’t count? Hey, I like Jerry West, but a lot of the draft analysis here is kind of silly – no one in the league has a perfect record, but everyone points to that one example here or there… they coulda had Amare Stoudemire! or Shawn Marion!

For my money, Bryan Colangelo and RC Buford have the most consistent records… picking up good players late, that no one else was looking at.

Even then… how could they take Ian Mahinmi! Or Beno Udrih! Didn’t they know they coulda had Varejao or Chris Duhon or Trevor ARiza?!

Or look at 2003… O’Connor took Sasha Pavlovic and Colangelo took Zarko Caparbarka… ahead of David West, Boris Diaw, Travis Outlaw, Josh Howard, Leandro Barbosa, Kendrick Perkins, Mo Williams, Zaza Pachulia, Luke Walton and Jason Kapono.

O’Connor also has Pavel Podkolzin and Ryan Humphrey on the resume.

You can always cherry pick bad examples – Isiah’s draft record holds up pretty well. (But it’s not like he’s irreplaceable either – we could find someone else to handle the lottery pick)