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Tuesday, July 29, 2014

Who Will Make the Knicks in 2010?

With not much else Knick related going on, my mind has wandered to the end of the bench. It goes without saying that last year’s team wasn’t very deep. However this year Eddy Curry could see a role in D’Antoni’s rotation, as well as summer acquisition Darko Milicic. Danilo Gallinari will likely see more than the 400 injury filled minutes of last year. Add rookies Jordan Hill and Toney Douglas to the mix, and the Knicks have a much deeper roster this year.

But still there are a few spots up for grabs at the end of the bench. Currently Joe Crawford and Chris Hunter are officially on the roster, but it’s possible that they won’t still be on the team by opening day. If they are replaced, they could be removed in favor of one of New York’s summer league participants. Morris Almond and Nikoloz Tskitishvili played well in the summer, but the Knicks also had their eye on Blake Ahearn and Mouhamed Sene.

So who do you think will contribute the most to the Knicks in 2010?

{democracy:34}

38 comments on “Who Will Make the Knicks in 2010?

  1. ScottD

    I recall hearing that Blake Ahearn recently signed with a European team, but i’m not 100% sure.
    Not that he would have been a difference maker.

  2. ess-dog

    “None of the above is the best option, but Almond may take Qrich’s role from last year.”

    What role is that? Shouting at the other team and making fun of Marbury in the press?

  3. Jafa

    I agree with everyone – none of the above, unless we start trading bodies like last year and suddenly can’t find 8 players to avoid a forfeit.

  4. KnickfaninNJ

    I think Tskitishvili was the member of the summer league team who showed the most value (besides the two draft choices, that is), but the Knicks probably consider themselves shorter on guards than big guys at the moment and Tskitishvili fills the same needs as Milicic does so there is really no reason for Knicks management to sign him. Last year they kept the roster filled by signing Sene and others when there was an opening If Knicks management decides to do that this year, I think they will choose Almond and that that is a reasonable choice on their part. That said, I doubt he will contribute much, just that, by being the one signed, he will be the one from the list above to contribute the most.

    Of course, all this could change if Walsh makes some deals by the start of training camp.

  5. KNICKERFAN

    What team needs a skinny white kid who can shoot 43% from the three…44% overall…. 97% from the free throw line….and average 22 points a game …..none that I can think of in the NBA.

  6. knicksfan33

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    Check it out!!!

  7. Thomas B.

    Why would you want Knicks tickets this year? Wait till 2012 when we have Rubio, Wade, James, Bosh, and Howard.

  8. TDM

    Almond and Skita are the only 2 on the list that have any chance of getting burn next season. Almond fills a need, and Skita is a big that can fill in when Eddy and Darko get into foul trouble by the end of the first quarter.

    By the way, the Clips just made an offer to Carlos Arroyo. If he signs with the Clips, Sessions options are down to the QO with the Bucks and whatever the Knicks are offering. That said, if Arroyo passes on the Clip’s offer, I wouldn’t mind seeing him on the Knicks next season to back up Duhon.

    Oh, and knicksfan33, please let us know how Italian Stallion is doing in the land of the kniggerblogger banned list.

  9. Rashidi

    Actually, the T’Wolves are likely getting Sessions now that Rubio is out.

    If you’re a Rubio fan, that increases the chances of NY landing him.

  10. Rashidi

    I still don’t get all the Nate hate. Monta Ellis is making 11 million a year. Ben Gordon is making 10 million a year. Leandro Barbosa is making 7 million a year. He’s the best scorer on the team and only guy on the team capable of getting his shot off the dribble. Why do the Knicks need to replace him?

  11. Caleb

    Sessions to the Wolves? I guess Minny has the $$ to spend – but why spend it on a young PG, when they have Flynn and expect to have Rubio in 2 or 3 years? I assume any Sessions deal would be longer than that. If the Wolves can get him cheap, it makes some sense, but if the offer is cheap – why would he pick them over New York?

    POSSIBLE ANSWERS:
    a) Sessions doesn’t really have an offer from Walsh and is desperate
    b) Kahn has major love for Sessions and is willing to gamble on him, big
    c) Chubby Wells is leaking, trying to pressure Walsh to up his offer
    d) reporter with too much time on his hands, hallucinating

    predicted votes:
    a – 14
    b – 4
    c – 93
    d – 50

  12. Rashidi

    Nah, I just keep reading what a great signing Sessions would be, and it’s ridiculous to me. The only argument I hear for Sessions is his lofty PER, nevermind that the guy can’t hit a three to save his life AND would be running a 7 seconds or less offense. Nate’s PER was even better and people talk about him like he shouldn’t be part of the team going forward.

  13. Rashidi

    Also, Sessions makes perfect sense for Minnesota.

    1. Flynn is a backup long-term and a rookie should never be handed a starting job without earning it.
    2. Sessions is the better player right now and would be the opening day starter without a doubt.
    3. Flynn, Sessions, and Rubio are hardly untradable. And that includes two years down the road.
    4. The current backup PG is Bobby Brown.
    5. Close proximity to Milwaukee. Does anyone honestly believe Sessions has what it takes to start in NY?

  14. TDM

    Personally, I think MN signing Sessions would be a double slap in the face to Flynn. First, they draft Rubio, now, they are going after Sessions. Its not like Flynn is Tavaris Jackson or anything.

  15. Caleb

    Sessions is a really good player, and just 22 — I like Nate, but Sessions is three years younger and based on the contract #s being bounced around, probably cheaper. You don’t have to see him as the next coming of Jason Kidd, to think he’s a massive bargain at $4 million a year. (Of course, you could sign both… but then where does Toney Douglas fit in…)

    PER is useful as shorthand, but it’s ridiculous to say someone’s PER is a point or two higher or lower and therefore they are clearly better or worse than someone else.

    I don’t care that Sessions can’t hit 3s – he’s still efficient. (Partly because he doesn’t TRY to hit 3s!) Anyway, his value doesn’t depend so much on scoring (like Nate’s does) because he’s a terrific playmaker, and a solid defender – way better than Nate in that category. He’s also a good rebounder or a PG (not as good as Nate, tho!)

    It’s a big mistake to think you have to be a “shooter” to fit D’Antoni’s system. IMO there are two broad approaches to getting efficient shots — one is to surround a great post player with 3-point bombers (call it the Orlando model); the other is to get a lot of layups, via quick shot opportunities before the defense is set. Guess what SSOL is designed to do… I think the main requirements are players who can thrive in the open court, who can pass and who don’t turn it over. Sessions would be fine.

    I’m not a big Flynn fan, but the Wolves are or they wouldn’t have picked him #6. It’s one thing to grab Rubio on a rookie deal, but offering $5 million-plus, long-term, to yet another PG? hmmmmm.

  16. d-mar

    Alan Hahn’s blog today (title:The Endless Bummer) is on the mark as usual. While it is true we have not mad a move all summer and lost out on Kidd, Hill, and maybe Sessions, Walsh has to stick with the 2010 plan. I think the old myth of Knick fans having no patience with rebuilding is officially debunked, and we will tolerate another down year it means that there’s light at the end of the tunnel. So far, Donnie has done nothing to hurt our cap situation (and I think Lee and Nate will take 1 year deals) and if he can pull off a miracle and deal Jeffries and/or fat Eddy, we will be in great shape (no pun intended, Eddy) for 2010. Patience is truly a virtue, Knick fans.

  17. Caleb

    Like I said in an earlier post – a one-year deal for Lee is bittersweet, because it probably means goodbye in 2010. The only way not, is if he loves NYK so much that he’s willing to give the team a week or two to work things out with LeBron or whoever else is available. That’s asking a lot of a FA – especially one who’s ticked he didn’t get $50 million already.

  18. jon abbey

    “why spend it on a young PG, when they have Flynn and expect to have Rubio in 2 or 3 years?”

    because, like I already said twice, Rubio is never going to Minnesota and Kahn seems to understand that better than you. Sessions signed a 4 year deal for $16 million with them, not thrilled that Walsh didn’t jump on that bargain.

  19. Caleb

    Show’s what I know. Sessions signs with Minnesota, according to Chris Sheridan.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4445416

    Four years, $16 million. I gotta think – he never had an offer from Walsh, or Donnie pulled it. All the reports said the Knicks were offering that much or more — hard to see him signing with Minny to compete with Jonny Flynn, if he had the opportunity to go to NY.

    From Minnesota’s point of view, it sure does look like they’ll listen to offers for Rubio. Not that they need to be in any rush.

  20. Caleb

    “Rubio is never going to Minnesota and Kahn seems to understand that better than you”

    Do we need to yank your leash?

    I won’t lay odds on whether Rubio ever plays in Minnesota – my point is that it doesn’t matter: Kahn played his cards right, regardless. He’s in a strong position, not a weak one. A trade seems likely, but if it doesn’t happen, there’s zero chance Rubio sits out a year to avoid going to Minnesota. And Rubio’s value isn’t going down, so Kahn can wait – as long as he needs to – for the market to come to him.

    You might say — RR’s value IS going down, because he’s not available for 2-3 years. But I disagree, because at 18 y/o Rubio wasn’t going to make much impact for a couple of years anyway. Whoever gets him in 2011 (or more likely, 2012) won’t be paying for the lean development years. They get a readymade starter/star. If he really comes on, by the time he’s 21, teams will be killing each other to bid for his rights.

    No sure thing, he might be overrated, but that’s a risk with any draft pick.

  21. jon abbey

    “there’s zero chance Rubio sits out a year to avoid going to Minnesota.”

    now it’s down to ‘zero chance’, huh? I guess we’ll see, pointless to keep arguing about this now.

  22. Caleb

    Yes, I’m down from 1%. And yes, we’ll have to wait and see.

    Look, I don’t disagree that he’s likely to be traded. I just don’t think that means Kahn made a mistake. I harp on it because there’s a lesson for Knick fans, re: long-term thinking.

  23. Rashidi

    “Sessions is a really good player, and just 22 — I like Nate, but Sessions is three years younger and based on the contract #s being bounced around, probably cheaper. You don’t have to see him as the next coming of Jason Kidd, to think he’s a massive bargain at $4 million a year.”

    4 million a year is fair market value considering the current economic state of the NBA. The guy essentially has only one season under his belt and would not start for 90% of the teams in the league. It’s not a given that he will improve, and I’d probably bet against it given his draft status. Diminutive PGs without a jumper tend to not improve very much. For reference see: Brevin Knight, Jacque Vaughn, Jason Hart

    “I don’t care that Sessions can’t hit 3s – he’s still efficient. (Partly because he doesn’t TRY to hit 3s!)”

    Sessions had a .525 TS% and .449 eFG%.
    Nate had a .549 TS% and .496 eFG%
    Duhon had a .570 TS% and .515 eFG%

    Sessions ain’t efficient. People who think he could step into Duhon’s role would be sadly mistaken.

    “Anyway, his value doesn’t depend so much on scoring (like Nate’s does) because he’s a terrific playmaker, and a solid defender – way better than Nate in that category. He’s also a good rebounder or a PG (not as good as Nate, tho!)”

    The thing is we wouldn’t dream of asking Nate to be the playmaker when he’s one of the few players on the team capable of dropping 20 nightly. Much like you wouldn’t expect Leandro Barbosa to take Steve Nash’s place in Phoenix, or Monta Ellis to take Baron Davis’ place in Golden State. Nate is a combo guard similar to Ellis, Barbosa, Jason Terry, Eddie House, etc. He’s very good at that role, and that role is very important to teams. He is much better at that role than Ramon Sessions is at running a team. He provides more value than Ramon Sessions, who is basically Chris Duhon without a 3pt shot.

    “It’s a big mistake to think you have to be a “shooter” to fit D’Antoni’s system.”

    Because his teams don’t lead the league in threes?

    “the other is to get a lot of layups, via quick shot opportunities before the defense is set. Guess what SSOL is designed to do… I think the main requirements are players who can thrive in the open court, who can pass and who don’t turn it over. Sessions would be fine.”

    Nate thrives in the open court and frankly is the only guard on the team capable of making a layup. He also had a 2.1 A/T ratio which is pretty darn good for a combo guard.

    Terry: 2.1
    Barbosa: 1.7
    House: 1.6
    Monta: 1.4

    “It’s one thing to grab Rubio on a rookie deal, but offering $5 million-plus, long-term, to yet another PG? hmmmmm.”

    The Wolves grabbed Sessions for 4 years and 16 million (4 million per year). Rubio won’t be around for another 2-4 years which is for the best anyway because he’s better off starting overseas than riding the pine as a teenager in the NBA.

    TBQH Sessions AT BEST is no better than Chris Duhon. The Knicks would be better off trying to UPGRADE the position rather than commit to mediocrity long-term (otherwise why not just give Duhon a 3 year extension?). Because unless you have Sessions pegged to be a future all-star, what’s the point of signing him for four years when you’re unwilling to give better players (Lee, Nate) more than one?

  24. Caleb

    I went overboard calling him efficient. But 52.5 isn’t godawful – hey, Nate was at 54, and 52.8 the year before — and it’s a pretty good bet that Sessions will have better years.

    You look silly arguing that he wouldn’t start for 90 percent of the league, or that he’s worse than Chris Duhon (and never will be better!)

    IMO it boils down to not understanding the difference between and 18 year-old and a 22-year-old and a 25-year-old. Nothing is 100 percent certain, but age is by far the best predictor of improvement. Your comparisons are ridiculous. Brevin Knight didn’t even make the NBA until he was 26, when he racked up a TS% of 44. And he defends like the 5’10 guy he is. Vaughn et al, never sniffed what Sessions did at age 22.

    You don’t have to keep flogging Nate. I’m a fan. To a point. But if you’re Nate’s agent, don’t complain about diminutive PGs. And Sessions is listed at 6’3, 190.

    D’Antoni’s teams make a lot of 3s because they take a lot of 3s… but he’s a coach who adapts to thetalent. Nash and Joe Johnson were great 3-point shooters; Shawn Marion averaged 33 percent under Mike D. and Grant Hill hit 31 percent. (Marion hit 25 percent this year, and Hill hit 17 percent the year before he got to Phoenix, so maybe the system will bump Sessions in the right direction, anyway).

    A jumper is overrated, anyway — Tony Parker was a good player without one, although he’s better now. Same with David Lee. Jason Kidd has been awful his whole career. Etc.

  25. Ted Nelson

    Rashidi,

    I agree with some of your points. Nate is a very good combo guard. I think you’re seriously undervaluing Sessions, though. Not that you’re alone given the lack of interest in signing the guy. I don’t see why it’s an either or thing. The Knicks could have easily signed both Sessions and Nate this offseason if they wanted to.

    Caleb points out a lot of the flaws I see in your arguments (BTW, while Sessions is not at all a diminutive PG and the comparisons ARE ridiculous, Brevin Knight was drafted 16th and played 30 mpg for 80 games as a 22 yr old rookie).

    Sessions is a much better playmaker than Duhon, who is an average or even below average playmaker for a PG. As Caleb points out, Sessions was only 22 last season so he should be expected to improve.

    Last season’s assist rates:

    Duhon: 27.9 (highest since his rookie year where he was at 28.6)
    Sessions: 34.6

    Sessions is a different player than Duhon, definitely not Duhon without a 3 pt shot.

  26. Ted Nelson

    “Sessions is a different player than Duhon, definitely not Duhon without a 3 pt shot.”

    To emphasize this point I’ll list some stats from 82 games:

    Duhon:

    67% jump shots .533 eFG% 44% assisted
    33% inside shots .478 eFG% 13% assisted

    Sessions:

    56% jump shots .376 eFG% 40% assisted
    44% inside shots .543 TS% 38% assisted

    Duhon is a jump shooter who can get to the basket passably. Sessions is a slasher with a weak jump shot. Given how many of his inside shots were assisted, Sessions probably could have played with Duhon offensively.

  27. Rashidi

    “Duhon is a jump shooter who can get to the basket passably. Sessions is a slasher with a weak jump shot. Given how many of his inside shots were assisted, Sessions probably could have played with Duhon offensively.”

    Sessions would play with Duhon about as well as he’d play with Luke Ridnour – good enough to pad his scoring numbers and not win any games.

  28. Rashidi

    “the comparisons ARE ridiculous, Brevin Knight was drafted 16th and played 30 mpg for 80 games as a 22 yr old rookie).”

    While Sessions was drafted 56th overall, played 28 mpg in his age 22 season. Both are pass first PGs. My point was that pass first PGs who struggle to score seldom improve, and I think we bring up quite a few examples of this if needed.

    “As Caleb points out, Sessions was only 22 last season so he should be expected to improve.”

    But what will he improve? His poor shooting? Just because a player is young does not mean he has a high ceiling. Andre Miller didn’t improve much from his rookie season, he has been relatively the same player since entering the league. Brevin Knight never improved. Raymond Felton hasn’t really improved. Jason Williams never became a deadeye shooter, never became a deadly slasher, the only improvement he ever made was deciding not to play like a retard.

    Does Ramon Sessions have the tools to be a deadly scorer like Allen Iverson, Tony Parker, Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Steve Nash, or even Devin Harris? No. Does he have the tools to be a lockdown defender? No.

    So please, explain to me what Sessions is capable of improving. There’s a reason why big men are projects and not point guards. Point guards have developed their skills by the time they get to the league, and the ones that do improve are the ones with the outstanding physical tools they learn to take better advantage of.

  29. Rashidi

    “and it’s a pretty good bet that Sessions will have better years. ”

    What makes it a good bet? How many PGs went on to have better years? Kirk Hinrich was a pretty good bet to improve and he never really did.

    “You look silly arguing that he wouldn’t start for 90 percent of the league”

    Mike Bibby
    Rajon Rondo
    Raymond Felton
    Derrick Rose & Kirk Hinrich
    Mo Williams
    Jason Kidd
    Rodney Stuckey
    Chauncey Billups
    Monta Ellis
    T.J. Ford
    Baron Davis
    Derek Fisher (yeah, even he’d start over Sessions given how poor a fit for the triangle he’d be)
    Mike Conley
    Mario Chalmers
    Devin Harris & Rafer Alston
    Chris Paul
    Russell Westbrook
    Jameer Nelson
    Steve Nash
    Andre Miller & Steve Blake
    Tony Parker
    Jose Calderon
    Deron Williams
    Gilbert Arenas

    I’m the one who looks silly? Know your league. The only teams I didn’t list were Minnesota, Sacramento, and New York (and it’s no given he starts over Tyreke Evans or Chris Duhon). That’s 27/30 teams which is 90%. Did you really think I was exaggerating?

  30. Rashidi

    “A jumper is overrated, anyway — Tony Parker was a good player without one”

    Tony Parker is also the fastest player in the NBA. As was Allen Iverson before him. Can you figure out why a Sessions comparison won’t apply?

    “Same with David Lee.”

    A bigman who can rebound and shoot excellent percentages around the rim? Why would he need 3pt range again?

    “Jason Kidd has been awful his whole career”

    Jason Kidd ranks 9th all-time in threes made.
    Jason Kidd has averaged 1.3 threes per game in his career (low: 0.8 – high: 2.0). Jason Kidd has shot .342 for his career.
    Ramon Sessions has averaged 0.1 threes per game in his career. He is at .220 for his career.

    If Kidd is awful, what does that say about Sessions? Kidd shot 33% (1.6 made per game) as a 22 year old. It is INCREDIBLY unlikely Sessions ever becomes a below average 3pt threat. And by below average, I mean a threat to hit 27% and 0.5 threes per game.

  31. Kiyaman

    Our Knick so-call 2010 Plan has showed no movement or action this offseason to hype-up the Knick-Fans to have confidence in believing there are 3 or 1 of the star 2010 FA players interested in becoming a Knick in the 2010 offseason.
    We did’nt have the tools (management) to influence any of the decent 2009 FA to sign on to our MLE for our Knick future 2010-Plan. Offering a one-year contract is “renting a player”.

    As much as we needed a decent SG to help out in lastseason two-man (Duhon & Nate) guard rotation (Q.Rich had to be the worst SG in the NBA,traded 4 times in one month). So adding the last decent young upcoming FA PG-Session to our roster could have paid off in so many ways for this Knick team……

    If the Bucks do not match that petty offer-sheet the Wolves gave to Session, then alot of people especially NBA players will look at the Bucks organization as just petty petty petty.

    With the NBA economic market looking shady to where the salary-cap will be reduced a second year in a row, every NBA team should fix themselves to pay luxury tax this season to bring-up the market so there would be less of a chance the NBA salary-cap dont be reduced on one of the biggest star FA markets in the NBA in decades. The Bucks organization should know this.

    The Knicks would’ve been building their chances up higher for an elite 2010 FA by giving Sessions that same petty offer-sheet of $16M for 4 years (weeks ago)…..only our Knick management do not have any confidence within itself to rid itself of Jefferies ($6M) contract before the 2009-10 trading deadline. No Confidence!
    Having Sessions $4M contract with Curry $11M as their highest contracts to start the 2010 offseason is more reasonable.
    The confidence level shown this offseason by our Knick management were not high or optimistic at all for Knick-Fans or any 2009 or 2010 FA.

    Last season Duhon & Nate held-down the backcourt by themselves all season long, a player like Sessions added with them this upcoming season would’ve been a great uplift to the Knicks guard rotation. Which could add temptation to SG-Wade, or SG-Joe Johnson, or even a healthy T-Mac for a cheap price in the 2010 offseason.
    The Knicks benching selfish SG-Larry Hughes individual performance for speedy PG-Sessions talent would’ve been best for the Knicks team and a great guidance for the rookie combo-guard Douglas future growth on the team.

  32. Ted Nelson

    Rashidi,

    No one said that Sessions WILL improve. He’s already good and likely to improve. At $4 mill per that’s pretty good. No one is calling Sessions the next Oscar Robertson. You hurt your argument by consistently ignoring and twisting facts.

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