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Thursday, April 24, 2014

What Does Tyson Chandler’s Injury Mean?

What does Chandler’s absence mean to the Knicks?

Wall-EAsk me “gun to my head” which Knick is least replaceable, and I’ll say Carmelo Anthony. That’s because the Knicks don’t have much depth at forward. But if you gave me time to think, I might just answer Tyson Chandler. Simply put, as Chandler goes so goes the Knicks defense. New York was 5th on defense in 2012 when Tyson was T-1000, and they were 18th in 2013 when he was doing his impersonation of Wall-E.

There’s no doubt that Tyson looked healthy this year, perhaps the healthiest he’s been in New York. The guy was grabbing 12.1 boards and blocking 3.4 shots per 36 minutes before Kemba Walker pulled an Antoni Hardonk on him. After 2 games the Knicks were first in the league in defensive efficiency. Heck even after the lackluster Timberwolf performance and the debacle against the Bobcats, New York ranks 10th on D.

If Tyson is out 6 weeks, then he’ll be back on the December 18th game against the Cunninghams. That would be game 25 – which means that Chandler will miss 20 games, or about a quarter of the season. By my back of the envelope calculations, I’m guessing the injury costs New York 4-6 wins. So adjust accordingly.

How will Woodson handle it?

Dr-Pepper

My guess is that Woodson initially trots out Bargnani, Martin, and ‘Melo. Woodson loves big men. Ewww that was weird to type. There’s a chance that he leaves Martin on the bench and goes with three guards. However I think the guiltless (and inefficient) shooting of Junior, the poor play of Beno, and the suspension of J.R. puts that plan on hold for at least a short time. There’s an even smaller chance he puts Bargnani at center and Artest at power forward. Sooner or later (forget about later, just sooner) he’ll put K-Mart as his starting center. That part of the platoon will end.

How should Woodson handle it?

Everything points to the Knicks best odds being small ball. So the Knicks should Give Felton as many minutes as possible, then add a healthy dose of Shumpert, J.R. Smith, and Pablo. Sprinkle a little bit of Beno. Whatever minutes are left make a competition between Toure’ Murry and Tim Hardaway. Junior needs to start finding the bottom of the net, and not the side of the backboard. Maybe being pushed by a hungry guard with nothing to lose can straighten him out.

If the small ball isn’t working, put Metta in. When ‘Melo comes out, put Metta in. In a desparate moment, I’d even throw out an uber-small lineup with Metta as center for a minute or two. Mostly to see the opposing coach’s face, but also to give our centers a rest.

At center Woodson should play Cole Aldrich as much as possible. There’s no reason he can’t start. And it makes much more sense to use him instead of risking the health of K-Mart or Amar’e. Think about it. Even if the Knicks lose a half dozen games now, they’re more likely to succeed in the playoffs with Chandler, Martin, and Stoudemire all healthy.

I’d be fine with ending the platoon of K-Mart, but keeping it with Amar’e. In either case, keeping their minutes to a minimum is worth more than a November win against the Hawks, Celtics, or Cavs.

I know I’ve been beating the Aldrich drum for a while, but it’s the only logical conclusion. Playing Aldrich now will give the team an inkling if he’ll be useful later. I can guarantee that the Knicks will need a healthy third-string center at some point in the year. They might as well know now if Aldrich is the one, or if they should keep scouring the D-League. It makes much more sense than starting Bargnani, who just can’t handle the duties of an NBA center.

As for our Roman friend, I don’t know what I’d do with him. He’s clearly hasn’t fit in with this team, and I wouldn’t trust him manning the 5 for long stretches of time. Ultimately I think his role is at one of the forward spots. But right now I think the Knicks have more important matter to sort out. Like getting the Knicks’ City Dancers back on the floor.

85 comments on “What Does Tyson Chandler’s Injury Mean?

  1. DRed

    Kevin McElroy @knickerbacker

    “The only route I have” is Bargs at the 5 because “Amare and Kenyon are on restricted minutes.”

    OR YOU COULD TRY PLAYING COLE ALDRICH

  2. chrisk06811

    someone needs to drop by the Burger King that Earl Barron is working in and see what sort of shape he is in

  3. massive

    I think he has no choice but to play Aldrich at least 10-15 minutes on Friday. You can’t just let your center get 3 rebounds a game and not do anything about it.

  4. JK47

    Andrea Bargnani is not a center. Starting him at center is like starting Prince Fielder at shortstop– he doesn’t have the physical tools to succeed there and it isn’t going to work.

  5. Hubert

    I know this sounds crazy, but I would play Bargnani at center now, but only with the first unit. We went on our best stretch of basketball last year when Tyson got hurt and we played Copeland at the 5. AB is unlikely to shoot as well as Copeland, but it’s not like Copeland brought so much to the table defensively and rebounding-wise (though he was better than AB).

    I’d go Felton-Prigs-Shump-Melo-Bargani, with Aldrich & Martin backing up AB, MWP backing up Melo, Udrih rotating w Felton & Prigs, and JR coming in for Shump.

    And I’d try to shoot my way out of this early season slump.

  6. Frank

    FWIW we all seemed to love the idea of Cope at the 5 in the playoffs instead of broken-down Chandler. Cope and Bargnani really aren’t that different in terms of their games. Both are offense-only no defense/rebounding guys that get lost on team defense.

    What will happen is that other guys on our team will pick up the slack on the rebounding. We’ll run less and we’ll send more guys to the defensive glass. For instance, last April when Chandler went out with the neck, Melo had 14, 12, 8, 19, and 14 in the next 5 games. We’ll get out rebounded but it won’t be that bad.

  7. stratomatic

    No matter how you slice this, it’s a disaster. I think the payoffs could even be at risk if teams like Toronto, Detroit, Washington and Cleveland all play better this year like I expect. This team is not as good as last year to begin with with the loss of Kidd and downgrade of Novak/Copeland to Bargnani. There is no backup big man of quality at all. Amare is a shell right now and Bargnani is horrible.

  8. Hubert

    That’s what I’d hope for, too, Frank.

    The thing is, AB is going to hurt us defensively, whether you play him at C like that or at PF with Martin or Aldrich next to him.

    At least this way, he theoretically can provide spacing and hopefully that will outweigh what he takes away defensively.

  9. Hubert

    When JR comes back, we’ll have pretty much the same 9 guys available right now who we had available when we finished 16-2. The only difference in we have Bargnani instead of Copeland , Udrih instead of Kidd, and MWP instead of Novak. It’s just about trying the same mix and style.

    It could work.

  10. ephus

    What does Chandler’s injury mean for the Knicks? The immortal words of Bill Murray, and they are not “It just doesn’t matter.”

    Of course that is over the top, but I see a really bad 4-6 weeks. Like losing 2/3 of those games.

  11. JK47

    After Chandler went down in March this past season, the Knicks lost their first two games without him then won their next eight without him. They did it by unleashing a deadly 3-point barrage– over those 8 wins the Knicks shot a pretty insane 84 for 203 from 3PT– a .414 percentage. They averaged over 10 treys made per game.

    About a quarter of those treys came from Novak and Copeland, who brought up that .414 percentage significantly by shooting .452 and .444 respectively during that eight-game stretch without Chandler. Both of those guys are gone. In their place is Bargnani, shooting .333 from 3 this year, .309 the year before that, .296 the year before that.

    It’s not gonna be quite the same.

  12. steveoh

    At least it sounds like this’ll force Woodson to play more small ball, even if it’s against his wishes.

    Melo plays his best on a squad that protects the ball and spaces it out. Size has little to do with it. Not having Chandler will HURT, but we did fine playing small without him last year.

  13. Hubert

    About a quarter of those treys came from Novak and Copeland, who brought up that .414 percentage significantly by shooting .452 and .444 respectively during that eight-game stretch without Chandler. Both of those guys are gone. In their place is Bargnani, shooting .333 from 3 this year, .309 the year before that, .296 the year before that.

    Here’s the thing, though. We went 16-2 with that crazy shooting. If we replicate the same style, and swap AB & MWP’s lower shooting % in for Novak and Copeland, we may not go 16-2, but 10-8 is doable, right? I’d sign up for 9-9.

    But one thing I know is if we keep trotting out big lineups with no interior defense. poor defensive rebounding, and no spacing for Melo on offense, I can see 4-14.

    I’d give it a shot. I doubt Woodson will.

    Also, what did Jason Kidd shoot? Because I feel like he was finished by then and replacing him with Udrih could be a plus.

  14. stratomatic

    During the period that Chandler was out and the Knicks were playing really well, Kenyon Martin was playing way above his typical productivity. I don’t have all the numbers, but remember being shocked how little the loss of Chandler was impacting the team. I traced a large part of it to very good play from Martin. Of course, it was during that period that Martin burned himself out and got hurt.

  15. DRed

    Here’s the thing, though. We went 16-2 with that crazy shooting. If we replicate the same style, and swap AB & MWP’s lower shooting % in for Novak and Copeland, we may not go 16-2, but 10-8 is doable, right? I’d sign up for 9-9.

    Yeah, sure. We’ll get a bit more defense, more turnovers, but if we start shooting better we can certainly not completely fall apart. And getting any sort of competent NBA player to replace Cock Junior is going to help a lot. What we really, really need to do is get Melo going. A TS% of 47 is not going to cut it. Obviously, that’s so far below his career average we can expect him to be better going forward, and like I said earlier, if Melo had been playing like career average Melo we’d probably be 3-1 and less freaked out right now.

  16. Z-man

    Well, it certainly sucks, especially given how well Chandler was playing (although he got somewhat manhandled by Pekovic, imo.)

    On the other hand, it forces Woodson to get real about things and stop tinkering at the cost of W’s, or risk losing his job. I always thought Woodson’s best quality was being able to get max effort/performance out of Melo and JR, yet it has seemed to me since the playoffs that he is very unimaginative and unwilling to either trust or discipline players as their play dictates. Bargnani gets no crunch-time minutes, as he shouldn’t; yet, TH2 plays important minutes over Shump, Metta, Prigs and Beno?

    I also think that minutes restrictions are generally ill-advised once you get below 24 or so minutes. If an offense-oriented player can only go 10-15 minutes, it is a certainty that they will break down eventually, and it puts pressure on others at the position to play more. It also leads to force-feeding him while he’s in there, and for him to feel like he has to put up numbers quickly before being yanked. If Amare continues to be restricted with Chandler out, he will never develop a rhythm and be an asset. At this point, I’d rather he go down for the season than continue to pollute the rotation. Same with K-Mart. At some point, either guys are healthy enough to play or they aren’t.

  17. Z-man

    BTW, more ammo for the haters out there, did anyone notice that it was Bargnani’s foot (off a poor rotation) that tripped Kemba into Tyson’s leg?

  18. JK47

    Also, what did Jason Kidd shoot? Because I feel like he was finished by then and replacing him with Udrih could be a plus.

    Kidd shot .361 from 3 in those Chandler-less games.

  19. Will the Thrill

    See, THIS is why the Bargnani trade was horrible. It was known by some all along that Bargnani would play a much larger or different role than Novak/Copeland simply because of injuries or some kind of “reputation” with Toronto and being a #1 pick. Now that Tyson is out, Woodson thinks it is clear that Bargnani is the only option (like he is far better than Aldrich at C), when he would never start and play Novak big minutes at C. Bargnani is a worse option at C than any other big man we can get our hands on at the moment, and Woodson thinks he’s the best option.

  20. dtrickey

    Huge blow for the team, and I legitimately feel for Chandler who was looking good so far and really came to training camp with a chip on his shoulder from last year. I know the diagnostic is 4-6 weeks, but is there any chance we could get him to a faith healer or something like that? If we all chip in and donate will it be enough for a divine healing?

    At any rate as big of a hole this leaves, it seems like the perefect opportunity to wheel out the 2 pg lineup everyone froths over. Hopefully Aldrich gets some burn. We really just need warm bodies to clog the lane and gets some boards. Let everyone else worry about the scoring. It sucks that Tyler is still banged up too. I would be interested to see what everyones thoughts were on potentially calling up Jason Collins? Servicable rebounder and shot blocker so he could be handy, even if that’s all he offers.

    At this stage of the season I’m not too concerened just yet. The Charlotte loss was frustrating, but to put it into perspective this team tends to go through peaks and troughs. Last year was the persfect example. Awesome start to the year, then a trough in the middle playing .500 ball and then a frantic finish. I think if your mentality is that this team is just going to suck all year, then you probably should just get off basketball for the season. I think in the absence of Chandler you will see a few more voices and players step up. Will it be easy without him? Probably not, but given we are only 4 games into the season we can probaly calm out tits a little and not write the season off just yet.

  21. Will the Thrill

    To add to my post and cover my footsteps: when Copeland played C during the injuries, he was an offensive juggernaut, something Bargnani clearly isn’t. Also, think Copeland is actually better at defense than Bargnani lol.

  22. stratomatic

    Two things

    1. Melo may be struggling with his shot because of his shoulder. Let’s get real here. His shoulder is not going to heal on it’s own. It requires surgery to do that. He chose to try to “manage” the injury with exercise etc.. I’m going to argue that if this wasn’t his opt out year and the Knicks weren’t in win now mode he probably would have had surgery. We have no idea what’s going on and IMHO we won’t until the ink is dry on his extension. It will be just like JR and his knee.

    2. IMO Woodson is a poor coach. He has no idea how to value his own players. IMO he just got lucky for an extended period of time. He inherited a Knicks team that was pretty good in terms of their players, the players liked him and performed well for him, and he was riding on some of the remnants of D’Antoni’s offense of spacing, shooting 3s etc… So the Knicks did fine. But you can tell now that he has to make adjustments, change lineups, value players on his own, he’s lost. He’s massively undervaluing Prigioni. He’s massively overvaluing Bargnani. Half the time he’s just throwing spaghetti at the wall hoping something sticks.

  23. danvt

    Probably not, but given we are only 4 games into the season we can probaly calm out tits a little and not write the season off just yet.

    Thanks for that. Unfortunately, it seems like everything that can go wrong has and it’s legitimately scary. I mean, the coaching has been downright awful. The PF position is a mess and the Bargnani trade looks historically bad, which is really shocking, considering it looked like a relatively minor move when it happened. But if the coach insists on having him guard David West or Kevin Garnett we’re screwed.

  24. flossy

    I also think that minutes restrictions are generally ill-advised once you get below 24 or so minutes. If an offense-oriented player can only go 10-15 minutes, it is a certainty that they will break down eventually, and it puts pressure on others at the position to play more. It also leads to force-feeding him while he’s in there, and for him to feel like he has to put up numbers quickly before being yanked. If Amare continues to be restricted with Chandler out, he will never develop a rhythm and be an asset. At this point, I’d rather he go down for the season than continue to pollute the rotation. Same with K-Mart. At some point, either guys are healthy enough to play or they aren’t.

    I agree with this. I know that Amar’e can’t go 36 mpg any more, but the Knicks can’t act like they know exactly how many minutes he has left and are going to give him five minutes here, five minutes there just to stretch him out until the playoffs. Nobody can get anything going playing that way, least of all someone used to being the #1 scorer on his team.

    Amar’e should get his 20-25 mpg, every game except back-to-backs, and if his body breaks down under that minutes load, he should retire. And I say this as someone who is very fond of Amar’e Stoudemire. 10 minutes every other game is not “playing.” At that point, you’re more of a hindrance than a help.

  25. Z

    I don’t know. It seems that the only fun (or even memorable) moments in recent Knick history has involved scrambling in the face of injury adversity. There was, of course, Linsanity, and there was the playoff return of 2011 in which the end of the bench guys (Bully Walker, Mason jr, JJ, etc) put in 110% effort to make the fans proud. (And, I guess the end of last year too, when Chandler went out, though I missed that excitement completely).

    Point is, don’t fret Knick fans. From the ashes the best play has typically arisen. Maybe watching the Knicks will be fun again (not that those first 4 games haven’t been joyous:)

  26. DRed

    I thought Bargnani would be starting at the 4 or the 5 at some point this year. Those are the positions he plays, and we have a bunch of guys at those positions who are injury prone/old. The people insisting that Bargs was a replacement for Novak were wrong. That’s why the Bargs trade was so goddamn dumb. It’s fine if you’re getting him as a luxury. If you can change the way he plays and he becomes a much more efficient player, great, if not, stick him on the bench and let him stay there. But with us it was very likely that he was going to be playing real minutes at the 4 or the 5 in a role similar to the one he spectacularly failed at in Toronto. It’s like the Heat signing Odom. Great move for them, terrible move for us.

  27. thenamestsam

    I agree with this. I know that Amar’e can’t go 36 mpg any more, but the Knicks can’t act like they know exactly how many minutes he has left and are going to give him five minutes here, five minutes there just to stretch him out until the playoffs. Nobody can get anything going playing that way, least of all someone used to being the #1 scorer on his team.

    Amar’e should get his 20-25 mpg, every game except back-to-backs, and if his body breaks down under that minutes load, he should retire. And I say this as someone who is very fond of Amar’e Stoudemire. 10 minutes every other game is not “playing.” At that point, you’re more of a hindrance than a help.

    Definitely agree with this. Not only from a basketball skills standpoint, but just an athletic exertion standpoint it’s not easy to stop and start like that. I don’t know if they showed it on TV but one thing that was very noticeable at the game last night was that during basically every time out Amare is jogging up and down next to the bench, doing high knees, just trying to stay warm. Not surprising given that it was probably over an hour of real time between appearances for him.

    I have no problems with managing minutes by letting him skip the 2nd night of a back to back or the 4th game of a week or whatever. But in the games he does play I think you have to trust him to go 20 minutes or not at all. Playing 10 minutes once or twice a week not only is making it almost impossible for Amare to have a positive impact, it’s basically ensuring that he has a negative one because there’s no way the rest of the team can be well adapted to having him out there with that little playing time.

  28. d-mar

    So if Tyson is out the full 6 weeks we have 20 games to play without him:

    @Bobcats
    Spurs
    @Hawks
    Rockets
    Hawks
    @Pistons
    Indiana
    @Wiz
    @Blazers
    @Clippers
    @Nuggets
    Pelicans
    @Nets
    Magic
    Celtics
    @Cavs
    Bulls
    @Celtics

    We need to somehow play .500 ball during this stretch, which means beating all the teams we’ll still be favored to beat: Cats, Celtics (2) Magic, Pelicans, splitting with the Hawks and then somehow coming up with 4 more wins, maybe @Wiz ,@Pistons. @Blazers, @Cavs – none of which will be easy.

    So we would all sign up for an 11-13 record when Tyson comes back, right? I would in a second.

  29. MarcusRinaldi

    The New York Knicks will sign the other Melo, Fabricio(Fab) Melo. He will become a double double machine within two weeks and be the defensive anchor we need. There’s no doubt that he easily has a higher I.Q then Tyson Chandler, and he will save the season….. Lord Lord Lord we are in trouble if we don’t go .500 while he’s gone. It could mean 5 seed at best. Hey maybe they’ll end up firing Woodson and hire Mike Rice. I’d love to watch him throw a basketball at Mr.Pipe in practice.

  30. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    What does Chandler’s injury mean?

    Why, of course it means that there will be better floor spacing, and fewer “forced” shot opportunity for the other four guys on the floor.

    That’s the narrative, right?

    (P.S. This team is going to be a lottery-level team for the next six weeks.)

  31. er

    So we would all sign up for an 11-13 record when Tyson comes back, right? I would in a second.

    Nah i see 15-9

  32. er

    (P.S. This team is going to be a lottery-level team for the next six weeks.)

    Man i wish there was a way to place bets here.

  33. Bison

    With Tyson out, our D is probably toast. So our only hope is to outscore the competition.

    Z’s mention of Linsanity (in post #28) reminded me that Jeremy Lin is probably available. He has been playing incredible ball so far, offensively AND defensively, but Coach McStupid will start Beverley nonetheless as soon as the latter fully recovers from his injury. Lin has to feel like he’s being screwed; he probably wants to get away from McFool desperately.

    Is there any way we can get him back?

    By the way, he’s been averaging 17.4 points per 36 minutes. He’s shooting 0.533 overall, 0.429 on 3s, and has a gaudy TS% of 0.663. And he’s been doing all this, remember, with the ball in Harden’s hands most of the time. I don’t expect Lin to keep up that incredible TS%, but the rest is in line with his production in the second half of last season. Do you think he could help our offense?

    Too bad Jon Abbey isn’t here to explain to us why Lin is such a crappy player.

  34. DRed

    Lin? We’re talking about proven playoff failure Jeremy Lin? He sucks. Can’t get it done in the playoffs.

  35. Brian Cronin

    I don’t think we’ll really know how the team will respond to Chandler’s injury until we see them play a little with the new rotation. A really good response and a really poor response seem roughly equally likely to me at this point.

  36. Bison

    @DRed in #39

    Lin? We’re talking about proven playoff failure Jeremy Lin? He sucks. Can’t get it done in the playoffs.

    Yeah, just as Melo sucked in the playoffs last season, and for the same reason — injury.

    Here, maybe the following listing of Lin’s stats so far will be easier to read:

    17.4 points per 36 minutes
    0.533 FG%
    0.429 3P%
    0.663 TS%

    Let’s not even mention his playmaking ability. You don’t think that much offense could help us survive the coming defensive drought caused by Tyson’s absence?

    EDIT: fixed a typo

  37. er

    Amazing that Lin is still brought up. Hes not coming back so we can just stop. Felton has been fine on penetration but needs to hit his open Js. One thing that is simply amazing to me is how JR is thought of as an afterthought. He was the second leading scorer and an integral part of 54 wins. Lets see what happens

  38. Z-man

    Mike K, great synopsis. I agree that Aldrich is the short term answer. I really liked what I saw out of him in the last preseason game. I hope Woodson starts him and lets him play the poor man’s Birdman role.

    I still think that the poor guard play is being understated so far, and that JR returning should have a very noticeable impact on both ends.

    I don’t think Melo’s shoulder is the problem. Like Clyde says, “He’s thinking rather than reacting.” He’s even missing layups right now. Whenever we have been in a state of confusion, Melo had tended to shoot poorly. Woodson has to settle on a rotation that works, and at that point, Melo will be OK.

  39. flossy

    I don’t think it’s particularly significant that Lin has a .663 TS% after four whole games, but even if he kept it up all season I think he and Dolan have already burned that bridge to the ground.

  40. Bison

    @er in #43:

    Amazing that Lin is still brought up. Hes not coming back so we can just stop.

    Why not read my post (#38) again? Lin might just be available. After all, he’s Houston’s backup PG now. (Yes, in spite of scoring 17.4 points per 36 minutes and putting up a 0.663 TS% he is still the backup PG in McHale’s eyes.)

    Felton has been fine on penetration but needs to hit his open Js.

    FG% — Felton 0.396 Lin 0.533
    3P% — Felton 0.214 Lin 0.429

    One thing that is simply amazing to me is how JR is thought of as an afterthought. He was the second leading scorer and an integral part of 54 wins. Lets see what happens

    Do you really think the cokehead can produce as much as he did last season and also make up for what we lost with Kidd, Novak, Copeland?

    We are now a stupid team; I think that’s the biggest difference from last year. I doubt that Pipe’s return will raise our collective IQ. Lin will definitely do that.

  41. er

    The point though is that hes not coming back. Someone else pointed out that its common knowledge that Dolan hates him

  42. er

    Do you really think the cokehead can produce as much as he did last season and also make up for what we lost with Kidd, Novak, Copeland?

    We are now a stupid team; I think that’s the biggest difference from last year. I doubt that Pipe’s return will raise our collective IQ. Lin will definitely do that.

    You’re trying to tell me that he wont improve this current team? Well then i cant help you

  43. DRed

    Lin is good and is cheap. Morey, unlike our owner, is not a fucking idiot. The only tradeable asset we have plays the same position as the Rockets best player. We’re not trading for Jeremy Lin.

  44. Bison

    @flossy (#45)

    I don’t think it’s particularly significant that Lin has a .663 TS% after four whole games,

    It’s 5 games. But I agree. I did say that I didn’t expect Lin to maintain that gaudy 0.663 TS%. But in the second half of last season his TS% was 0.562. That was done over 41 games, which is a pretty significant sample. I think he’ll be even better this year.

    but even if he kept it up all season I think he and Dolan have already burned that bridge to the ground.

    You never know. Lin wants out of Houston, I’m pretty sure of that. He has definitely outplayed Beverley by far and does not deserve to be demoted to the bench, and he must be seething inside.

    At this point, even Dolan may look better to him.

    As to why McHale is being so unfair to Lin, I have a theory. It was McHale who cut Lin in the first place (allowing the Knicks to pick him up). The big guy is a proud man, and does not like to be proven wrong. He is probably still ambitious to be GM again, which means that he must be seen to be a good evaluator of talent.

    Linsanity proved McHale spectacularly wrong in judgement, and I don’t think the Irishman has recovered from the humiliation. So McHale has been looking for any excuse to dump on Lin. This year, with Harden and Howard, he probably thinks he no longer needs a good PG, and that is why he goes out of his way to hurt Lin.

    This is why we may have a chance to get Lin.

  45. maxwell_3g

    im pretty sure that either Zach Lowe of Grantland checks out KBlogger from time to time or great minds all rhink alike. his article on grantland today is pretty spot on. he too seems to view woodson as a mental midget that stumbled upon small ball, 2 pg success last year.
    playing bargs at the 5 would be completely stupid, so stupid that im almost rooting for it to happen. yes, cope at the 5 worked last year for a very short period of time. the difference was that cope was on fire on offense and he at least tried to bang on defense. bargs doesn’t even sweat

  46. Bison

    In #46, I wrote:

    Do you really think the cokehead can produce as much as he did last season and also make up for what we lost with Kidd, Novak, Copeland?

    We are now a stupid team; I think that’s the biggest difference from last year. I doubt that Pipe’s return will raise our collective IQ. Lin will definitely do that.

    In #48, er replied:

    You’re trying to tell me that he wont improve this current team? Well then i cant help you

    No. Remember, you were the one to bring up last season’s 54 wins. I merely said that in order for us to be as successful this year, Pipe will have to produce what he did last year AND throw in enough extra production to make up for our loss of Kidd, Novak, and Copeland. Fat chance.

    And that is why we need Lin.

  47. JK47

    I’m gonna put “getting Jeremy Lin back” up there with “trading Amar’e for LeBron James” and “hoping Andrew Wiggins goes undrafted and we sign him as a free agent” on my list of not-very-plausible Knicks fantasy scenarios.

  48. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Everyone wants to play GM. Everyone, including CAA.

    Lin will never be a Knick. Morey is smarter than you. Remember the Harden-plays-second-fiddle chatter on this board? Yeah, I do too. Morey was smarter than you then. Still is.

  49. EB

    Anybody want to put an over/under for number of games before Dolan demands a stupid trade/fires Woodson?

  50. er

    Anybody want to put an over/under for number of games before Dolan demands a stupid trade/fires Woodson?

    Knicks have played well 3 years in a row when facing adversity. I think it can happen again, schedule isnt that crazy for the next month

  51. AvonBarksdale

    I also have to continually lend my support to STAT playing 20 minutes a game until he completely breaks down or gets into a groove then maybe slowly scale it back to like 18 minutes a game. He is obviously forcing every play cause he wants to get something going in his tiny window. I’m confused how woodson is neglecting so many obvious issues with our team and it’s obvious the players are fucking lost and lacking motivation to try harder since being on this team must be like walking in on your grandma having sex with your dentist or something everyone is constantly uncomfortable.

  52. max fisher-cohen

    @er you thought in the 36-30 first round and out lockout performance was an example of playing well? You considered the barely .500 team of 10/11, the one that didn’t improve at all after trading youth for present talent, to have played well? Last season is the only example of the post $100m Allan Houston contract Knicks outperforming expectations, and then they lost in the playoffs to a lower seeded team. Maybe health cost them that series, but regardless, I haven’t been impressed by anything in the last ten years other than the 54 win regular season last year.

  53. Kahnzy

    Cope sighting in the Pacers/Bulls game. He’s like their last guy on their bench, but he could very well have been our starting center on Friday.

  54. Bison

    @THCJ (#54):

    Lin will never be a Knick. Morey is smarter than you. Remember the Harden-plays-second-fiddle chatter on this board? Yeah, I do too. Morey was smarter than you then. Still is.

    Nope, I don’t remember the Harden chatter here.

    Even the smartest guy can look foolish occasionally. Remember Popovich benching his best rebounder in game 6 of the finals, and the game — and the championship — turned on an offensive rebound by Miami?

    The same with Morey. Recall that he is all about maximizing his assets. However, by loudly declaring that Lin is now a backup, Morey has seriously compromised the trade value of his best PG (best by far) and has a totally pissed off player on his hands now — a big mistake. Perhaps we can take advantage.

  55. SeeWhyDee77

    Oh boy. To say this is one helluva circumstance is a MAJOR understatement. Losing Chandler. I won’t say that the team absolutely needs to bring another Center in. Would be nice if we could find one, but since there is no real presence of ‘old school bigs’ in today’s NBA, I think we can get by with a 4 who can rebound and block a shot or 2 in Tyson’s absence. So who’s available? Barron? Tyrus Thomas? Or maybe we can move JR for one to a team who may need backcourt punch. Biyombo? Manimal? He has been effectively replaced by Hickson right? Udoh? Pachulia? We are in a bad spot, but if we could use JR to bring someone in, I have faith that we will be fine at the 2 with Shump-TH2-Murry. The best option would probably be kicking the tired on our old pal Jeffries. I do know this much: it is truly now or never for Aldrich and it is now the time to bring Tyler back and dump Chris Smith.

  56. Owen

    Sort of can’t believe we are talking about Lin.

    To me, Beverley seems like a much better running mate for Harden and Howard. Lin is a ball dominator and maybe better for the second unit.

    I loved Linsanity. But there is no way we are getting him back. And I don’t think he is what we need right now anyway.

    How about the Magic? Big win. This Vucevic is the classic example of one of those scrubs in a trade who you have never heard of who turns out be kind of amazing….

    That happened to the Knicks once right? Oh wait….

  57. stratomatic

    I’m a Lin fan. I think he’s a more productive player than Felton and he still has upside. All that said, he has NOT outplayed Beverly by a significant amount. You can argue he’s been a little better, but Beverly has been the better defender. So it’s really close. In addition, Lin is most effective with the ball in his hands as a scorer. That’s what Harden does. So Lin is not the perfect fit with Harden. The team is probably better off with Lin being a scorer off the bench. The Lin/Beverly debate is being handled perfectly and fairly by McHale. AND HE’S NOT COMING BACK TO NY.

  58. er

    you thought in the 36-30 first round and out lockout performance was an example of playing well? You considered the barely .500 team of 10/11, the one that didn’t improve at all after trading youth for present talent, to have played well? Last season is the only example of the post $100m Allan Houston contract Knicks outperforming expectations, and then they lost in the playoffs to a lower seeded team. Maybe health cost them that series, but regardless, I haven’t been impressed by anything in the last ten years other than the 54 win regular season last year.

    For god sakes i meant the previous two years. In 2012 when left for dead went on 2 tears. Linsanity and when melo avg 40 in April. Last year played well at the end of the season after floundering a little. I get every wants to be in woah is me mode but god.

  59. Owen

    Watching the Thunder. I like this Steven Adams character. Just had a block, a board, a dunk, and a steal in rapid succession. He looks good.

  60. BigBlueAL

    Since we are talking about fantasy scenarios, the best fantasy scenario would be firing Woodson and hiring either Van Gundy brother. I wonder what would be more likely, trading for Lin or re-hiring Jeff Van Gundy lol.

  61. Bison

    @Owen (#62)

    Sort of can’t believe we are talking about Lin.

    To me, Beverley seems like a much better running mate for Harden and Howard. Lin is a ball dominator and maybe better for the second unit.

    That’s McHale’s stated reason for demoting Lin. But you know what? Lin has been starting while Beverley heals from injury, and has been incredibly efficient playing OFF the ball. (Note his 3P% of 0.429.) In addition, Harden scored 33 points and Howard got 28 points in Lin’s most recent start, a blowout win against Portland. Does anyone seriously believe that Beverley, who really sucks at playmaking, can improve on that?

    On defense, Lin DRTG is 101, which is better than Tony Parker’s 102 and Mike Conley’s 104. Small sample size, of course, but you have to wonder how much better Beverley can possibly be here.

    So there is little objective evidence for preferring to start Beverley; Lin has been overwhelmingly better in all categories.

    I loved Linsanity. But there is no way we are getting him back. And I don’t think he is what we need right now anyway.

    Well, I think a dose of Linsanity can help us. All that offense would be very welcome during our defensively challenged period, while Tyson heals up.

    How about the Magic? Big win. This Vucevic is the classic example of one of those scrubs in a trade who you have never heard of who turns out be kind of amazing….

    That happened to the Knicks once right? Oh wait….

    Hahaha.

  62. Bison

    @er (#47)

    The point though is that hes not coming back. Someone else pointed out that its common knowledge that Dolan hates him

    The prospect of missing the playoffs may concentrate even Dolan’s mind.

    I’m sure Lin would love to come back.

  63. nicos

    Why are we talking about Lin? 1. We had the third best offense in the league last year with Felton and were top ten with him in his first stint here. Point guard isn’t the problem- we have three at least competent guys who can play the position plus Murry who’s at least intriguing. 2. The only asset we have to deal is Shumpert and I’ll keep a cheap Shump over an overpriced Lin any day. Plus if Shump’s going to get dealt I ‘d rather have it be for a someone at a position of greater need. 3. Lin will make 15 million next year- if Melo leaves and we need to rebuild his contract will just gum up the works. Lin might improve the team a bit but he wouldn’t be worth whatever we have to give up, or paying his contract, or enduring the inevitable ensuing media circus.

  64. Brian Cronin

    Lin will only count as $8 million against the cap next year. But yes, it is silly to be discussing him right now. Is there not a Rockets version of Knickerblogger out there for this stuff, Bison?

  65. BigBlueAL

    I thought ts 8 against the cap next season for the Rockets but wouldve been 15 for the Knicks if they matched??

  66. nicos

    I thought he only counted 8 million for the Rockets but if they moved him anyone else would have to pay full freight. I understand that the Rockets were able to spread out his cap hit but how would that work if a team that acquires him via trade now?

  67. er

    Amazing how KD sits out 4 mins in each of the last 3 quarters. Is Woody watching? Can melo get half of this please

  68. marechal

    Playing Melo 42 minutes per game in the first four games smells of coach “looking over his shoulder” and afraid for his job security, doesn’t it?

  69. Bison

    @Brian Cronin (#72)

    Lin will only count as $8 million against the cap next year.

    Yes. That would be so even if he gets traded back to the Knicks.

    But yes, it is silly to be discussing him right now. Is there not a Rockets version of Knickerblogger out there for this stuff, Bison?

    Why is it silly to discuss a way to improve the team? Especially one that could plausibly happen?

  70. Bison

    Why are we talking about Lin? 1. We had the third best offense in the league last year with Felton and were top ten with him in his first stint here.

    Because we won’t have the 3rd best offense this year, not even close. We were that high last year because we were bombing madly from the 3.

    We have lost most of our shooters. And now we are currently 23rd in ORTG.

    We need help.

    Point guard isn’t the problem

    FG% — Felton 0.396 Lin 0.533
    3P% — Felton 0.214 Lin 0.429

  71. SirJim

    Spot on, Mike. I’m definitely rocking back and forth in the corner over this injury, but it’s good to know someone out there can put together a coherent piece without throwing up their hands and saying the season is already over.

    Personally, after kicking the peanut around today, I say we give Aldrich the nod. KMart has always been reliable as a backup, and I think he should get plenty of burn. But scrappy does not equal center. The worst that happens is that we find out that we don’t have a reliable backup center in Cole. Give the kid a shot. You can’t become experienced by not playing.

  72. Brian Cronin

    I thought ts 8 against the cap next season for the Rockets but wouldve been 15 for the Knicks if they matched??

    Correct. But for any team that acquired him now it would be $8 million.

  73. Brian Cronin

    Why is it silly to discuss a way to improve the team? Especially one that could plausibly happen?

    There is no plausible way that it could happen. It’s done. It’s over. Theoretically they could maybe sign him in 2015 (doubtful, but theoretically possible) but there is absolutely no plausible way that they could trade for him this season.

  74. carywashington

    Losing Tyson for any period of time sucks.

    Lin, you’re off to a great start. You have one of the LOWEST usage rates in the NBA (this year and last) and you’ve become even more efficient, this year. Your skills overlap with Harden, HOU isn’t using you….NY could really use your services.

    NY misses you. Instead, we signed bums like Novak, Camby and Bargs. And we have a bunch of fans that LOVE Dolan sooooo much, that they want him to keep saving his billions. I’ve never known people who cared so much about a billionaire’s savings.

    Yesssssss, winnnnnnnning.

  75. carywashington

    I’m a Lin fan. I think he’s a more productive player than Felton and he still has upside. All that said, he has NOT outplayed Beverly by a significant amount. You can argue he’s been a little better, but Beverly has been the better defender. So it’s really close. In addition, Lin is most effective with the ball in his hands as a scorer. That’s what Harden does. So Lin is not the perfect fit with Harden. The team is probably better off with Lin being a scorer off the bench. The Lin/Beverly debate is being handled perfectly and fairly by McHale. AND HE’S NOT COMING BACK TO NY.

    Lies. Do you want a PG with court vision, playmaking skills, and defense (Sampson and Morey continue to say that Lin is an underrated defender, Stats show this too)? If so, you go with Lin.

    Do you want a PG with defense, limited court vision/playmaking skills who automatically dumps the ball to your franchise player, once you cross half court? If so, go with Bev.

    Lin, ball dominant? Stop with the talking points. He’s completely changed his game to accommodate Harden/team. Do you ever remember Felton sacrificing and altering his game to help his team (nuggets and trailblazers say, no)? Lin plays OFF THE BALL, mostly. He’s been playing very well since the all star break…it’s carried over into this season. He’s even better and more efficient than Linsanity. Haters gon’ hate.

    8mil/year is a steal.

  76. Brian Cronin

    Rarely if ever do we need a new thread as badly as we do right now. Knicks morning news can’t come quick enough! Tyson Chandler goes out for possibly six weeks and we’re discussing a completely unrelated player on a different team. Too silly.

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