Personally, I’d rather have spent those years getting high draft picks and having a clear salary cap. Or, to put it another way, the more reasonably priced guys you have, the more you can sign! Their is just too much potential for guys to not pan out and to get stuck with a bad team full of bad contracts with these Knicks.

Besides Marbury (who signed his deal under a different CBA) other good Knicks players might be well paid, but not receiving anything more than their fair market value.

First you have Frye, Robinson, Lee, Ariza, Barnes, and Butler, obviously all getting far less than they’re worth to the team.

Curry: Curry’s health is an issue; of course even healthy players suffer career ending injuries. Tyson Chandler has also had a health problem. As recently as a year ago there was speculation that his back would limit him for the rest of his career. One year of good health and solid defensive productivity was enough to change opinions in the Bulls’ organization and around the league. If Curry can keep his PER around 18 once he’s in shape enough to play 30/35 MPG he would have earned more than $10 mill per on the open market next offseason.

Q: Again you have a health issue, but Q was regarded as a good value when he signed with the Suns, after one year in an offensive system that asked him to sit behind the three point line and launch shots suddenly he’s overpaid (according to the media).

Crawford: No one doubts that a player of Crawford’s talent warrants as much as he’s making and probably more. The problem has been that throughout his career he has played out of control on O, and hasn’t played D at all. The question is whether or not Crawford can get his game (shot selection, decision making, and defense) under control. A combo-guard playing on a winning team who can create his own shot as well as any player in the league, create for teammates, and isn’t a defensive liability is easily going to get $8 million as a free agent.

That’s really the point: the way that business is done in the NBA is if you’re overpaid but contribute on a winning team you’re far from untradeable, overpaid on a losing team and no one wants you. The two franchise players to change hands recently didnt bring that much in return. The Lakers took Brian Grant back for Shaq and the Magic took Steve Francis (who’s the same age as Marbury) for T-Mac.

A few years ago Dale Davis and Jalen Rose brought the Pacers Jermaine O’Neal, Ron Artest, and Brad Miller. After only a season and a half losing in Chicago, Rose was worth Antonio Davis. Dale Davis stayed in Portland for four seasons, but needless to say he would never have brought them a player of O’Neal’s caliber.

Another example is contrasting the trade values of Antawn Jamison and Nick Van Exel. While Jamison was worth only Van Exel and scraps (most of them overpaid) when traded along with Fortson and Jiri Welsch as the best player on a losing team, after one year as the sixth man on a winning team suddenly he’s worth a #5 overall pick and Jerry Stackhouse. Van Exel, on the other hand, went from being worth (a devalued) Jamison and two decent role players to being worth Dale Davis’ expiring contract after only one season on a losing team.

Although it is ill-advised, overpaying free agents is hardly a practice in which the Knicks are alone.

It wasn’t me who said the Nuggets were lucky. Drafting consists of the skill to identify strong players but being lucky enough for those players to still be available is a big part of it. However, I will say that the Nuggets are looking at paying somewhere around $70/75 million starting in the next couple years if they hope to keep together their current team, a team that I would not pick to ever win a title without some upgrades. So, while they took a far different approach, they’ve overpaid some guys all the same and in a few years we’ll see if the results were any better.

– Also, before you get too excited about Eddie Curry, please remember that not only did the Knicks overpay, but he has a heart condition that could take him out of play at any time. Without seeing his full medical report, maybe it’s not fair to pass judgement, but based on the way the Knicks do business vs. the Bulls and the rest of the league, I think it’s safe to say they’re probably assuming too much risk out of desperation.

– Also, the Nuggets didn’t get “lucky.” They cleared a ton of cap space, made solid trades and FA signings, and lost enough along the way to get a top 3 pick. That’s the way you do it.

Kareem: I?m not arguing that the Knicks don?t overpay for their roster at the moment (of course they could be paying $60 million less in two short years). What I am arguing, however, is precisely that things are different now than a few years ago. The post-Ewing Knicks featured players who were aging, unathletic, and/or generally lacked talent. Today?s Knicks are overpaid, but they have youth, athleticism, and talent: ?growth potential? if you will.

My point is that if some of these players come close to this ?growth potential? suddenly they might not be so overpaid. Paying $60 million for a 3-6 seed in two years doesn?t sound too bad. Isiah has taken some big risks, but they have not been without possible rewards.

For example:
If in 2002 the Wizards had given Larry Hughes $8 mill a year over 7 years, instead of $5 mill for 3, they would have looked pretty stupid for 2 seasons. But last year they would have looked much smarter when they had Hughes locked up for 4 more years well below the 12 or 13 mill a year he?s getting in Cleveland. If Crawford can shoot a decent percentage on a winning team and play average defense, suddenly $8 mill a year might not be overpaying.

If the Knicks start winning some games, it stands to reason that Curry?s scoring ability will be a big reason why. I?m not saying he?s Shaq or Tim Duncan, but he?s already one of the game?s best low-post scorers at 22. The heart condition was a calculated risk. Without it there would have been at least a dozen teams interested in Curry this past offseason: inside scoring is one of the most valuable, and scarce, resources in the NBA.

Overall I think Thomas has made quite a few good moves, but two were complete stinkers – wasting the mid-level exception on JJ and swapping Nazr for Rose and Taylor. Surely there was a better player than JJ available? Did we really need two more pf’s (especially when we went out and drafted 2 more)? Why did we trade our best one (KT)? A line-up of Curry, KT, Ariza, JC and Starbury is a lot more balanced than what we have, you’d have Nazr, Frye, Barnes, Robinson and Davis on the bench, maybe we could have signed a decent point guard back-up with the mid-level exception…

Pointless dwelling on what might have been I know, but it goes to show that Isiah has been inconsistent and incohesive in his team restructuring. I don’t feel that he has made nothing but bad moves on a move-by-move basis, but rather the sum total of his moves has been what has let the team down.

– You’re talking about Eddie Curry like he’s some kind of answer, but here’s a classic case of the Knicks being wastefull and impulsive. They gave up a young player who was comparable to Curry in Sweetney and for a guy that is a MAJOR health risk and then gave him a huge long term contract. I could not think of a stupider move.

– Jerome James is not the only waste on this roster. Malik Rose, Maurice Taylor, Q Richardson, Crawford, Curry, Penny Hardaway, and even Marbury are making well more than their production merits.

Think about it… if the Knicks spend more money than any team in basketball and that money is tied up in these guys, yet the Knicks still suck and didn’t even make the playoffs last year, doesn’t it stand to reason that these players are making more than they are worth?

Or, let me ask you this… Their magical run as an 8 seed not with standing, the Knicks have not been a title contender since Pat Ewing quit being a dominant force. Why is this? And, in light of the James, Richardson, Crawford, Rose, Taylor, and Curry moves when they could have easily just waited for cap relief what is different about what they’re doing now?

Your list of players dates back 5+ years and only one of those players remains with the team (physically anyway). Some points about the Knicks ?bad? contracts:
1) Many will come off the books in the next few years and were acquired in an attempt to upgrade the talent on a team with virtually no athleticism.
2) The others belong to players possessing a significant amount of talent: Marbury, and Crawford (I can?t call Curry or Q overpaid if they stay healthy).
3) The Knicks current roster (players actually on the roster) is at around $94 million. Next year?s roster could be at around $70 million. In three years the Knicks have the ?growth potential? to have a core of Marbury, Curry, Q, Ariza, Crawford, Frye, Lee, Nate, Rose, and James for under $60 million, or around the league average.
So you?re left with Jerome James. In reality, he?s eating a whole 10% of the salary cap, which a grand total of 7 teams in the league are currently under. Austin Chroshere and Jonathan Bender both make more than James, and the Pacers still manage. Rasho, though more productive, makes more, as did Rose, and the Spurs do alright for themselves.

The Nuggets went in the opposite direction as the Knicks, and at the moment they?re a #8 seed that has to sign Melo to a max deal and faces the possibility of losing one of the best young bigmen in the game this offseason: Nene?s defensive adjusted +/- over the past 3 years is better than maxed out team-mate K-Mart and Tyson Chandler.

7-8 teams that have a reasonable chance at winning the Championship this year? I count four. Then some borderline teams like Dallas, Phoenix, or Houston who might have a chance if some unproven guys step up. For a team like Houston you could say that Yao and T-Mac have the talent to step up and be championship caliber players, Rafer Alston has the potential to be good, Swift has the potential? Potential, sounds familiar. Dallas, Cleveland, Chicago, etc. just need time to develop, the truth is that the same could be said for any team. It’s really a matter of opinion whether you’d rather be sitting waiting like the Hawks or trying to be good even though you can’t be great, as a fan I’ll take the competitive team any day.

Odom’s deal was reasonable and Crawford and Curry’s deals are not?
Only because Odom has now realized his potential while Crawford and Curry have not yet done so (and it?s true that they may never do so). Also, recall that when Odom arrived in Miami the team started 3-11. If the Knicks finish the season strong and Crawford shoots around .425/.430, creates for team-mates and plays adequate defense suddenly 8 million doesn?t seem so high. If Curry puts up 17 points, opens up the perimeter, and is average defensively and on the boards 10 million is a deal.

“you make the best decision you can at the time and hope for the best”
Couldn?t have said it better. I?d say that signing a 22 year old who is already a solid low post option falls under this category. I’d also say that trading scraps for one of the top 3-5 PGs in the league falls into this category. Trading a 32 year old jump-shooting PF signed until he?s 36 to get Q and Nate, also. Using two solid, but aging, bigmen and scraps to get a young combo-guard with Jamal Crawford?s ability, again. Using a decent bigman approaching free agency to get a leader and 2 1st rounders, yep.

Did I think that a team with Lamar Odom, Dwayne Wade, and Caron Butler all signed at reasonable numbers had a chance to grow? Of course. The point is, that although nothing is ever certain or static, you make the best decision you can at the time and hope for the best. This is why you could never fault a team like Orlando for bringing in Tmac and Grant Hill. Of course, it didn’t work out, but sometimes those are the breaks. The Knicks make impulsive, bone-headed moves to satisfy an impatient fan base. Unlike the Magic, who had their best player’s career effectivly ended by an unforseen injury the Knicks consitenly create their own problems with awfull decisions. Just look at the Sweetney for Curry trade and Jerome James signings from this offseason to see how screwed this team really is. And this is why, even though they spend massive amounts of money they can’t even make the playoffs. It ain’t rocket science.

And to answer your question as to how many teams look like championship contenders… well I’d say there’s about 7 or 8. Then there’s a second group like the Bulls who are a couple of moves away or having some players develop from joining that group. You also have teams like the Bobcats or Hawks who aren’t locked into shitty long term contracts and therefore have the flexibility to sign players, trade for players, and land top lottery picks.

Then there’s the Knicks who stand alone. No other team is even close to having so many overpaid, shitty players that other teams want. And it’s due to the same thinking that you’re championing that lands the team Jerome James and perpetuates the cycle further and further. Look at the Nuggests for god sakes! They were tapped out in bad deals around the same time the Knicks were. They took the route of blowing up the roster, losing 70 games, and rebuilding. Now they’ve got a strong roster and are in the hunt. The Knicks? They took Antonio McDyess.

Nuff said.

The Knicks certainly don’t look like a championship contender as is, but how many teams do? The fact is that the Knicks have some good young players (including the Bulls leading scorers from the last two years) and the opportunity to make some changes over the next couple years, we’ll see if those changes are more Darius Miles or Kevin Garnett, more Jerome James or Eddy Curry.