Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Sunday, December 21, 2014

Walsh to the Knicks Imminent?

Donnie Walsh is officially out at Indiana and ESPN is reporting he is set to sign a three-year/$15 million dollar contract with the Knicks.

I am not a huge fan of Donnie Walsh, but he should most likely be a step up on not only Thomas, but on every Knick General Manager since Ernie Grunfeld, as well.

It will be interesting seeing how this all plays out. Will Isiah still have a role on the Knicks? Who will be the next coach? Will there be a new coach?

66 comments on “Walsh to the Knicks Imminent?

  1. jon abbey

    Indiana consistently had talented teams on a reasonable budget for a long time. it’s pretty hard to remember at this point, but they had maybe the best team in the league in 2004 before Artest blew up, and I think Bird’s done the majority of the decision-making since then.

    anyway, I’d be reasonably happy with Walsh making personnel decisions going forward, but someone should do a column handicapping the potential candidates we know about. Colangelo probably has a better recent resume, but I like that Walsh is a NYC guy.

  2. Ess-dog

    I also like that Walsh is a nyc guy. I think he will do a competent and professional job and won’t be bullied or give the keys to the car to whomever is coaching. That being said, who will be his coach? I’m warming up to the idea of Skiles- The idea of him screaming at Curry and Zach on a nightly basis warms my heart. I think Terry Porter deserves a shot. He’s a smart, family-values guy. I like Carlisle, but I don’t think Walsh will revisit that. Regarding the coach: players make a difference. Doc Rivers was a mediocre coach at best before Garnett, Allen and Pierce. Frankly, I think Isaiah could coach that team to 50 wins. I just hope Walsh can do something with “moneybags” Randolph and his 99 year contract or else it will be a tough road for all of us…

  3. Count Zero

    Anything would be an improvement at this point. I’m not in love with Walsh, but I’ll take it. Unfortunately, I’m still not certain Isiah will lose the coaching job. I’m keeping my fingers crossed.

    Now let’s see if we can lose the last 13 and tank our way to a shot at Derrick…

  4. Bob Cook

    I’ve watched the Knicks since ’65
    I’ve seen them win
    I’ve seen them lose
    This season is the first time I’ve seen them quit.

  5. justin

    espn reporting that walsh signs a 3 year 15 mil contract after This season. We keep losing, things r starting to look better (:

  6. Gabe

    “I am not a huge fan of Donnie Walsh, but he should most likely be a step up on not only Thomas, but on Layden, as well. ”

    Why not? Was it his ability to identify one successful coach after another (except I. Thomas)? Was it trading for a peaking Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, and sleeper-pick Ike Diogu? Savvy draft picks like Danny Granger, David Harrison, Primoz Brezec (laugh at that one if you want, but how many other GMs have grabbed starter-quality C’s with the 27th pick?), and Al Harrington? Parlaying team cancer Ron Artest into Peja Stojakovic? Plucking a young Jermaine O’Neal away from Portland for a mummified Dale Davis? Trading overpaid Jalen Rose and Travis Best for Brad Miller and a young (and at that time non-crazy) Ron Artest?

    Those moves sound a lot better than what MSG has endured since the mid 90s.

  7. jon abbey

    “Was it trading for a peaking Mike Dunleavy, Troy Murphy, and sleeper-pick Ike Diogu? ”

    this one was Bird’s deal, and all GS has done since then is win games, all Indiana has done is lose, I wouldn’t be so quick to put that in the plus column. also, Peja did nothing in Indiana, and was gone for pretty much no return after a half-season. but again, I think Bird has made most of the personnel decisions in the last few years.

    anyway, Walsh built perennial contenders, starting with the Miller/Smits teams we grew to know so well. I think most of their problems over the last few years can be directly traced to Ron Artest losing his mind, and it’s tough to blame management too much on that one. you have to take chances on talented loons sometime, and sometimes they work out (Rasheed to Detroit, Sprewell to NY, Rodman to the Bulls), sometimes they don’t. we all knew Artest wasn’t all there, but I don’t think anyone thought he was that far gone.

  8. Matt

    Any change right now is good change. Isaiah has ruined our franchise and made us the laughingstock of the league. We need to get back to the days of John Starks, Oakley, Ewing, Mason, Harper, Smith and the rest of the Knicks that made coming to MSG such a tough matchup. Walsh is a New York City guy who has a much much better track record than Thomas and I look forward to seeing what he can do. Keep the young guys and try to trade Curry, Randolph, Crawford for some short term deals and make a stab at Lebron in 2010.

  9. IMissBernardKing

    Im a Donnie Walsh fan for sure and agree it will be a big step up for us. The only management team I can think of that was competent was the Grunfeld-Checketts team. Bringing in Walsh will hopefully feel like we have someone competent running the front office.

    Im hoping this isnt a last paycheck situation for Walsh wanting to retire to NYC and have something to do. 67 is still pretty young in today’s day and age and Id like to think that after all the tumult in Indiana he felt it was time for a change of scenery.

    But unless James Dolan resigns from day-to-day management of the franchise and truly lets Walsh make all personnel decisions (including who coaches the team), I dont have much hope for the future. Here’s to hoping Dolan goes back to what he knows (whatever that may be, it isnt running an NBA team).

  10. jon abbey

    “Here’s to hoping Dolan goes back to what he knows (whatever that may be, it isnt running an NBA team).”

    I’m pretty sure the full list consists of knowing who to pick as his daddy.

  11. teddd

    As an outsider, I think that this is a very good move for the Knicks. Walsh has been one of the best GM’s in the game the past 15 years (or so) and will bring respect and professionalism back the the organization. This is exactly the type of guy that needs to be brought in at this point in time.

    At the same time, I’m going to miss the perverse enjoyment I got watching Isiah Thomas at work these past few years. A train wreck likely not witnessed in NBA circles since the Ted Stepien days. Any chance Walsh can keep him on for one more season? Please?

  12. cwod

    From Newsday.com:

    “Former Knick Mark Jackson, who worked the Nets broadcast last night for the YES Network, already is being linked to Walsh because the two were together in Indiana.”

  13. Frank

    Is there any support here for bringing in Tom Thibodeau as coach? I think it’s pretty believable that he was a large part of the defense of our beloved Knicks of the late 90s, Houston’s defense under JVG, and now Boston’s near league-leading defense.

    Some snippets from his profile on NBA.com:

    “During his tenure with the Knicks, New York set a then-NBA record by holding 33 consecutive opponents under 100 points in the 2000-2001 season.”

    “In 14 NBA seasons, Thibodeau has helped his team finish in the NBA’s Top Ten in team defense 11 times. He has also coached in 80 NBA playoff games in his career, including New York’s appearance in the 1999 NBA Finals.”

    I don’t think Skiles is a good choice — Crawford and Curry both hated him in Chicago, and unless those guys are gone, there is going to be bad blood right off the bat in that situation. I think we need a no-nonsense, no-baggage gym rat basketball guy a la the 1st go-round of Van Gundy.

    Mark Jackson might be ok but I think we’ve had enough “players’ coaches” for a long while.

    I’m very happy about Walsh coming on board. Really, anyone would be better than IT. And his long history might make Duck Folan allow him more leeway. Meanwhile, is there any evidence out there that the trades listed above were Bird’s idea and not his? Certainly he’d have to sign off on them as CEO.

  14. Jay

    Don’t get too pumped up yet… Walsh gave Isiah his first coaching job. I would much rather give the GM job to someone with no ties to Isiah. Just the possibility of Isiah remaining as coach is killing me right now.

    By the way, did anyone see that sequence in the third quarter last night where the Nets passed the ball to whoever was being guarded by Zach and let him go one on one? The Nets scored six straight times that way. What a depressing team

  15. Thomas B.

    I think Isiah may be with the team in some capacity. I think he does a fine job evaluating talent, he had a few misses, Frye over Bynum for example, but for the most part he has done well. Add to that his relationship with Walsh and whatever hold he has on Dolan, you could think that Isiah could be back. Since we will have a top six pick, I would like an evaluator like Thomas helping. Thomas is a poor coach and a poor financial manager.

    I would like Mark Jackson as the coach.

  16. W. C.

    I have no idea whether Walsh is the best candidate, but I am pretty certain about 2 things.

    1. Anything that takes power away from Isiah is a good thing.

    2. If I was the owner, I would have interviewed several more candidates before hiring one. It’s not like there aren’t any other qualified people. This seems like a rushed decision.

    I also have a funny feeling Isiah is going to stay around in some capacity. He was in too good of a mood after a recent meeting with Dolan AFTER Dolan had already spoke to Walsh. That doesn’t pass the smell test.

    I hope it’s not as coach, but if he stays around in a scouting role that would be OK. It’s going to cost Dolan a ton of money to clean house totally. He might want to leep Isiah around in some capacity so he earns some of that money.

  17. W. C.

    I know it’s very fashionable to trash Dolan for keeping Isiah around for so long, but he does have one redeeming quality.

    He’s willing to spend a lot of money.

    So when we evaluate the prospects for Donnie Walsh turning the team around in a couple of years, we should keep in mind that he never had a war chest of money like this to work with in Indiana. If he did, I bet Indiana would have done a LOT better.

    It’s just going to take some time to get rid of all the large bad value contracts we have now. The good news is that the biggest one is off the books after next year.

  18. IMissBernardKing

    Like I said, removing Dolan from the day to day is what the team needs to do. Write checks, show up at games, cheer. Thats his role. Not making decisions.

    Hard to argue with hiring Walsh though and while you could say they should have interviewed more people, Walsh was likely not to linger in the Free Agent pool all that long. You have to move to get a guy like that.

    Course, I said that about Larry Brown a few years ago too. You know, the guy who succeeded everywhere but the Knicks. You just wonder how much Walsh can prosper with Dolan active in team decisions. Lets face it, the guy is a moron. Rich. But a complete and utter moron.

  19. Nick

    Is Walsh official or just educated speculation at this point? I seme to recall reading in the Daily News just a few days ago that Walsh was styaing at Indy so I’m leery of trusting anything I read.

    As for Isiah, he’s got to go. He is grotesquely incompetent at every aspect of his job. as Jon abbey pointed out 6 straight possessions running the same play and his players still botch it up. That’s at least aprtly on him for not teaching and more likely never coaching defense as has been mentioned. His skills as a talent evaluator as way overrated. You cannot give him credit for a few fortuitous draft picks like T-Mac and Lee and then pass on his ability to evaluate actual NBA talent like Curry, Zach, Jamal, Steph, Moochie Norris, Tim Thomas, Jerome James, Jeffries, etc. I think the fact that he is utterly inept at evaluating players that he has seen play in the league speaks more about his ability to evaluate talent than firing a dart at a board on some kid in or barely out of his teens come draft day.

  20. o_boogie

    ess-dog:

    if nate mcmillan couldnt do anything with z-bo, i wouldnt count on skiles doing much for him either.

    —-

    i wonder if donnie walsh only accepted the terms of the knicks offer if he is given full power and no interference from dolan.

  21. caleb

    Walsh built some fine teams in Indiana, and seems to be a solid talent evaluator. My cautions are:

    1) If he has a weakness, it’s overspending. O’Neal, Tinsley, Harrington… he has handed out some questionable contracts over the years, and Indiana has been seriously hamstrung the past 3-4 years. Though you could say — he went all out, going for the ring, and it might have worked except for Artest.

    2) I would generally prefer a younger guy…

    3) Like W.C. said, I wish Dolan would look more widely. Of course, he might have and this only leaked when he got close to a decision.

    I don’t care one way or the other if IT is still around, as long as he doesn’t have check-writing privileges.

    As coaches go, I like Thibodeau — I definitely would look for a strong NBA assistant, rather than a recycled mediocre head man, or god forbid some college guy.

    p.s. I saw on ESPN.com yesterday (maybe Broussard) that Marc Iavaroni is on thin ice in Memphis, after just a year. Maybe the guy has personality issues, who knows, but he is a great coach…

  22. TDM

    Newsday reported that the Knicks sent out questionnaire to season ticket holders asking for feedback – whether they were going to re-up, and if not, why. Anyone on the board that received the survey that can give some more info would be appreciated.

    I can’t imagine that Walsh would take the job unless it meant that Dolan was going to take a more hands-off approach next season. Dolan’s rep is no secret around the NBA, so to bring in a guy like Walsh (along with the aforementioned survey) signals that Dolan may have finally gotten the picture to some extent.

  23. Ted Nelson

    Didn’t read through all the comments, so maybe this has already been metnioned, but what I really like about Walsh is that Indiana was one of the few teams to successfully rebuild without missing the playoffs. Of course, in hindsight, that rebuilding didn’t result in the championship contender you would have liked to see, in fact things have really fallen apart. Don’t know how to split the blame between Walsh and Bird. Overall, I think Walsh has been one of the best NBA execs of the last couple decades, and he may have learned some things from the collapse Indiana has suffered.

  24. Geoff

    every time i read “Walsh is a NYC guy”, that picture of Larry Brown outside the Garden with “Welcome Home Larry” on the sign pops into my head.

  25. Frank

    I got that questionnaire from MSG for season-ticket holders — was pretty vanilla, although they did ask questions like “if you are not going to sign up for season tickets again, what is the most important reason why?” and then giving a dropdown menu with player conduct, team performance, ticket prices, etc. They also gave several free-text boxes that allowed me to go off on dolan and the administration of the Knicks. That was fun.

  26. caleb

    “Tinsley signed that ridiculous deal after Bird took over.”

    Isn’t that like Isiah blaming Larry Brown for the Ariza/Steve Francis trade?

    p.s. For all the success that Jerry West has had, he doesn’t walk on water… think about the Memphis years… a lot of draft flops. Plus, he’s almost 70. If Walsh somehow fell through, I’d rather go with someone who has yet to make a name for himself. Not that it would happen, though.

  27. o_boogie

    lotta people are hating on walsh, but the pacers were championship bound before artest and jackson scr3w3d them. when you are forced to trade artest and jackson for 30 cents on the dollar after what they did, you cannot fault walsh.

  28. caleb

    Anyone want to lay odds on a trade of Randolph and our pick for Jermaine O’Neal? Or Randoplh and Balkman?

    Not that I think either of those would be a good thing… but Walsh & IT are O’Neal lovers, and Bird is an O’Neal hater.

  29. jon abbey

    “every time i read “Walsh is a NYC guy”, that picture of Larry Brown outside the Garden with “Welcome Home Larry” on the sign pops into my head.”

    yeah, but a GM is different from a coach.

    “Isn’t that like Isiah blaming Larry Brown for the Ariza/Steve Francis trade?”

    not quite, although that was indeed Brown’s fault. from all reports, Bird had much more to do with shaping the roster after he got there than Walsh. there’s a reason that Pacers fans almost universally seem to wish Walsh stayed over Bird, and I don’t think it can be chalked up to nostalgia.

    I love people who refuse to acknowledge real world machinations, and insist on attributing everything to the person whose job it’s supposed to be. Brian Cashman wanted Vlad Guerrero over Gary Sheffield, but Steinbrenner overruled him. in your book, I suppose Cashman gets charged with that move.

  30. jon abbey

    also, not that I’d bet on anything involving Dolan, but I’ll be shocked if Isiah isn’t replaced as both GM and coach very soon after the season ends. I do think he’ll likely remain in some sort of far from the court, behind the scenes, “advisor” relationship, hopefully specializing in the draft, but mostly because Dolan won’t want to swallow his whole contract and just let him go (and who can blame him on that one!).

  31. caleb

    “I love people who refuse to acknowledge real world machinations, and insist on attributing everything to the person whose job it’s supposed to be.”

    C’mon, doesn’t the buck stop with somebody? Larry was months from losing a power struggle and getting fired, yet IT was somehow forced to sign off on this harebrained trade? I guess you could defend him by saying, ok, try and get along with the coach who you’ve hired for the long haul… but then you turn around fire him a few months later. If you were that unsure about him (and you had plenty of reason to), why’d you sign off in the first place? If Dolan thought Larry was smarter than IT, what did he see to change his mind a few months later?

    I know the Indy situation is more complicated, in that Bird had more of an “official” role than Larry Brown did.

    “not that I’d bet on anything involving Dolan, but I’ll be shocked if Isiah isn’t replaced as both GM and coach very soon after the season ends..”

    That seems like a pretty safe bet.

    Would IT willingly sabotage the draft, intentionally pick someone he thinks is gonna suck? That’s why you don’t keep someone around after you’ve fired them — what’s in it for them?

  32. caleb

    “I love people who refuse to acknowledge real world machinations, and insist on attributing everything to the person whose job it’s supposed to be.”

    C’mon, doesn’t the buck stop with somebody? Larry was months from losing a power struggle and getting fired, yet IT was somehow forced to sign off on this harebrained trade? I guess you could defend him by saying, ok, try and get along with the coach who you’ve hired for the long haul… but then you turn around fire him a few months later. If you were that unsure about him (and you had plenty of reason to), why’d you sign off in the first place? If Dolan thought Larry was smarter than IT, what did he see to change his mind a few months later?

    I know the Indy situation is more complicated, in that Bird had more of an “official” role than Larry Brown did.

    “not that I’d bet on anything involving Dolan, but I’ll be shocked if Isiah isn’t replaced as both GM and coach very soon after the season ends..”

    That seems like a pretty safe bet.

    Would IT willingly sabotage the draft, intentionally pick someone he thinks is gonna suck? That’s why you don’t keep someone around after you’ve fired them — what’s in it for them?

  33. cwod

    From the SI article:
    “Most important is Warkentien’s approach to team-building. As opposed to other GMs who prefer to build over a long period of time via the draft, he is known as an executive who believes in making moves to improve teams quickly.”

    Isiah part II? I suppose nobody can be that bad.

  34. caleb

    Warkentien is the genius responsible for Kenyon Martin, no? A team with as many salary problems as any but our beloved bricks..?

  35. jon abbey

    Caleb, we’ve been around and around on that Ariza/Francis deal a million times already. my perspective is that at that point Brown was pushing hard for it and Dolan decided to throw him a bone and see how it worked out. “the buck” does stop with someone, but it doesn’t need to be the same underling necessarily on every single move. if you want to look at it that way, the buck stops with Dolan, on this and every other move.

  36. jon abbey

    “Warkentien is the genius responsible for Kenyon Martin, no? ”

    no, pretty sure that was Kiki Vandeweghe. maybe Warkentien has been in charge since Vandeweghe left in 2006? which of them signed off on that ridiculous Nene deal, I wonder?

  37. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, I bet Isiah sticks around in some capacity, if only to make it feel better to Dolan to pay him $21 million over the next three years.

    I wouldn’t even mind Isiah working as a draft advisor.

    I do bet the odds are slim that Isiah will stay as coach.

    I am mainly hoping Walsh is just a Lee fan (and a Balkman fan, too).

  38. DS

    Isiah will not be demoted to a scout. He’ll be fired outright. Dolan and Isiah both have too much pride for that to happen and that just doesn’t seem to happen in the NBA very often.

    Yes, Dolan and Walsh love Isiah. Yes, Isiah prob will never find a high profile NBA job again – I just believe pride supersedes it

  39. Thomas B.

    “Anyone want to lay odds on a trade of Randolph and our pick for Jermaine O’Neal? Or Randoplh and Balkman.”

    1 in 100K.

    God I hope that does not happen. JO is coming off a bad knee, Bird makes bad trades just about every time out, and we still give them Randolph and a pick? I say thee nay!! Not when you can find a defensive big man in the draft. I know you want to move Zach, so do I, but not at the cost of this year’s pick.

  40. PeteRoc

    Whenever a team in a dire state hires a new GM, the new guy often fires everyone and installs his own people (namely the coach). My guess is Dolan went after Walsh precisely because he may be one of the few people willing to keep IT as the coach.

    I saw comments in this and the prior thread about Carlisle or Skiles, but be careful what you wish for. Carlisle’s been fired twice in a five year span (that can’t be a good sign for a team like the current Knicks). Skiles is a demanding coach with a style in the same vein as Larry Brown. That coaching style would help instill better defense, intensity and discipline, but would take at least two years to get buy in and decent results. You’d almost have to fire him soon afterwards because he isn’t willing to ease up (even after a team establishes itself as a perennial playoff team). It eventually wears on the players. Take it from a Chicago fan.

  41. jon abbey

    “Isiah will not be demoted to a scout. He’ll be fired outright. Dolan and Isiah both have too much pride for that to happen and that just doesn’t seem to happen in the NBA very often.”

    it’s not up to Isiah, unless he wants to walk away from his contract (HA!). it doesn’t happen in the NBA very often, but messes like the one in NY don’t happen very often either.

    “Yes, Dolan and Walsh love Isiah. ”

    Walsh has admitted publicly he made a mistake hiring Isiah as coach.

  42. Thomas B.

    Anagrams part II

    I did some anagrams for the team a few months ago. I have new ones.

    Donnie Walsh = Handles wino. I love this one given Jade Salmon’s (James Dolan) history with alcohol. Also: Laden now his.

    Quentin Richardson= Squirt on Hinderance (Remember the water throwing incident with Zach and N8?)

    Randolph Morris= mild horror span, ramrod horn lips (i have no idea)

    Fred Jones = fond jeers

    jon abbey= job be nay (just kidding)

    There isnt much to do while I wait on my wife to deliver yet another unfortunate Knick fan.

  43. jon abbey

    thomas b rutgers=ass bum thortger

    “There isnt much to do while I wait on my wife to deliver yet another unfortunate Knick fan.”

    good luck on this one not being a hermaphrodite, my man. (just kidding)

  44. Brian Cronin

    Guys who are fired are given different head office jobs all the time in sports, so while I certainly would not be surprised if Isiah was, indeed, just outright fired, I also would not be surprised if he sticks around.

  45. PeteRoc

    jon abbey – I have trouble believing something you wrote:

    “Walsh has admitted publicly he made a mistake hiring Isiah as coach.”

    Where did you get that information? I’ve always read the two still have a good relationship.

  46. Brian Cronin

    By the by, saying the two have a good relationship is not necessarily incongruent with Walsh saying he made a mistake picking Thomas as his head coach, particularly because the other choice at the time was Rick Carlisle.

  47. jon abbey

    yep, agreed on that, Brian. here’s my source, today’s Newsday piece:

    “Thomas was hired by Walsh to coach the Pacers from 2000-03, which might suggest that Walsh could be open to keeping Thomas as the Knicks’ coach for at least another season. But a person with knowledge of Walsh’s experience with Thomas in Indiana said Walsh admitted he made a mistake in hiring Thomas.”

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/ny-spknix255625354mar25,0,5458006.story

  48. caleb

    “I know you want to move Zach, so do I, but not at the cost of this year’s pick.”

    I didn’t say I would do it, it’s a terrible idea. But don’t be so confident it won’t happen. Probably wouldn’t include the pick, but don’t be shocked if they do a deal like that with Wilson Chandler or next year’s (hopefully) protected pick.

  49. PeteRoc

    jon abbey – scratch my last post, the same writer apparently has a more updated article citing a league source who said IT would not be with the Knicks next season after Walsh takes over.

  50. tarek

    players that should go:
    Randolf and collins to atlanta for josh smith in a sign and trade
    curry to the warriors for al harrington and a first rounder
    jeffries and richardson, to portland for lafrentz, frye and a first round pick
    jerome james to indiana for jeff foster.

    i think this will be a great team to have. Marbury and lafrentz come off at the right time and wala. the warriors first rounder should be a future pick and not next year. portland has too many players and a lot of draft picks. we should take it this year.

  51. tarek

    still tarek. the team would be like this

    foster
    harrington
    smith
    crawford
    marbury

    frye
    lee
    foster
    rose
    chandler
    balkman
    robinson
    malik rose then you also have two first round picks.
    knicks take rose with the early pick and deandre jordan with the late pick.

  52. tarek

    when marbury and lafrentz come off the payroll they give lee some money and go after lebron james
    future knicks:

    Deandre jordan
    David lee
    josh smith
    lebron james
    derrick rose

    balkman
    robinson
    frye
    harrington
    wilson chandler

    5 player from the draft and free agents
    when you look at the outcome it is possible when you do it trade by trade or move by move. just look at what portland did and what seatle is doing now.

  53. jon abbey

    “Randolf and collins to atlanta for josh smith in a sign and trade”

    hahahahahahahahaha, hahahahahahahaha. come on, now, are we really supposed to keep reading after that?

  54. Thomas B.

    “thomas b rutgers=ass bum thortger

    “There isnt much to do while I wait on my wife to deliver yet another unfortunate Knick fan.”

    good luck on this one not being a hermaphrodite, my man. (just kidding)”

    That was funny.

    Thanks for your concern. My son was born healthy on Wednesday during what i later learned was a Knick victory. I take that as a sign of great things to come.

  55. Thomas B.

    Jon,

    I am a knicks fan and an attorney, I have not been a warm blooded mammal for several years.

Comments are closed.