Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, August 28, 2014

Tyson Chandler Hurts Big Knee

Latest scoop on Tyson Chandler, according to Frank Isola of the Daily News, is that he banged knees with Gerald Wallace, left the game on crutches and needs an MRI.

Is it me, or is Tyson Chandler’s knee the most important knee in all of New York city? The Yankees are done, the Rangers aren’t even playing, no one cares about the Islanders, and the Jets already lost their best player. The only other person in the Big Apple that means more to his team is Eli Manning. And before you start thinking that Carmelo Anthony is more important to this team, the Knicks were ranked 22nd on defense before Chandler and 5th last year. Perhaps Camby, Thomas, and Wallace can fill the void until Tyson comes back?

As for my thoughts of a season without the RoboCenter?

Use in event of an emergency…

Godspeed knee. Godspeed.

38 comments on “Tyson Chandler Hurts Big Knee

  1. ruruland

    Only Berman and Isola are going off the ledge with this. Surprise.
    Here’s a pretty good NBA reporter:

    http://www.cbssports.com/nba/blog/ken-berger/20673300/knicks-chandler-to-have-mri-on-left-knee

    “The only injury that we are concerned about right now is Amar’e,” Anthony said. “We know Tyson is not that bad, and we have a week to get him back. Rasheed is doing extremely well in practice with what he’s doing. J.R. and Camby and those guys are doing what they need to do to get back for that first game and maybe a couple of practices before that. So if you look at the big picture, we have guys who are making a comeback and on their way back. So the only big problem for us is missing out on one of our main guys in Amar’e.”

    In the absence of Stoudemire and Chandler, the Knicks’ farewell to the preseason turned into the Melo show — and for a while, it was a horror show. Anthony was 1-for-9 in the first half and finished 4-for-13 with 15 points.

    “I sat back and told myself, ‘We’re missing a lot of guys out there,’” Anthony said. “So when guys come back, I don’t really have to put that burden on myself. Yeah, there’s going to be times when I have to score; that’s what I do best. I score the basketball. But for the most part, like tonight, we were moving the basketball and playing defense. We had a lot of good things happen for us.”

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  3. knicknyk

    I have a bad feeling about Tyson Ruru. The Knicks are never ever honest about injuries & quoting Melo doesn’t help that feeling go away.

  4. jon abbey

    actually I think if Camby can play, Chandler probably isn’t nearly as essential as he was last year, at least in the short-term. hopefully it’s not a big deal, though, fingers crossed.

    Prigioni and Copeland with some very nice chemistry, they should both be in the rotation when the real games start IMO. Felton I thought looked a lot better tonight, I am fine with him as long as he minimizes the bad shots early in the shot clock and looks to get other people involved.

  5. jon abbey

    the SI preview likes the Knicks and is pretty rough on Lin, FWIW. they pick NY 3rd in the East (IND 2nd) and to lose to MIA in the conference finals. they have anonymous quotes from scouts about Lin in both the NY and HOU sections:

    “I have no problem with their decision to let Jeremy Lin go-it’s like losing Tim Tebow. Last year was a perfect storm for Lin.”

    “It’s beyond me why they paid Jeremy Lin so much. Goran Dragic is better. Lin is not quick. He’s not a good ballhandler. He has good size, and when he gets in the lane, he is good at finding the open man and is not a bad finisher. But he didn’t show me he was very good at running a team.”

  6. sidestep

    jon abbey: actually I think if Camby can play, Chandler probably isn’t nearly as essential as he was last year, at least in the short-term.

    I think Hollinger’s profile for Camby is interesting because it is extreme with both the positive and negative:

    + Lanky big man who defends rim and rebounds. Won’t leave paint on defense.
    + Good handle for size and excellent high-post passer. Awkward outside shot.
    + Rarely attacks rim and struggles to finish. Lacks strength. Poor foul shooter.

    Camby led the NBA in rebound rate at age 37, which is an amazing accomplishment no matter how you slice it. He also ranked in the top 15 at his position in both blocks and steals per minute, and was third among centers in pure point rating. These metrics overrate Camby’s defense — he won’t leave the paint to help his guards because he knows rebounds get him paid, leaving lots of open jumpers for pick-and-roll point guards — but overall he’s still pretty solid at that end.

    Offensively, however, he’s a bust. Here’s an amazing stat: Camby had the worst shooting percentage at the rim among bigs in 2010-11; technically, he was five shots short of the minimum 150 shots, but if he had made all five he still would have been last. Wanna know what happened in 2011-12? Camby was the worst again, shooting 49.3 percent at the rim. Except this time he was four shots short of the minimum. But, again, if he’d made all four he would have been last.

    So basically, he’s just a really, really bad finisher for a player of his size, and that limits his offensive impact — especially since he can’t shoot either and his free throw shooting has gone off the rails the past couple seasons. Overall, Camby averaged an anemic 8.5 points per 40 minutes with a terrible TS%; he was just so good on the boards that he had a solid PER anyway. For as long as he continues doing so, he’ll be a…

  7. Mike Kurylo Post author

    knicknyk:
    I have a bad feeling about Tyson Ruru. The Knicks are never ever honest about injuries & quoting Melo doesn’t help that feeling go away.

    This.

    The one good thing about being a stat guy is that I don’t have to cobble together information from sources and try to drunken eyeball them all together into a narrative. I don’t have to piece together who likes who, who drinks at night, who isn’t practicing, because it all shows up in the stats. To me that doesn’t matter, so I don’t tend to get caught in conspiracy theories.

    But the Knicks have been so awful at keeping injuries a secret that even I’m paranoid on this one. Sure it’s just a banged knee. Every time I bang knees in the gym I go home in crutches and get an MRI. WTF!?!?!

  8. thenamestsam

    Mike Kurylo:

    But the Knicks have been so awful at keeping injuries a secret that even I’m paranoid on this one. Sure it’s just a banged knee. Every time I bang knees in the gym I go home in crutches and get an MRI. WTF!?!?!

    Exactly. A banged knee can happen any time you’re on the court, but I’ve never heard of someone getting an MRI for a banged knee. Hopefully they’re just being ultra-cautious, but I’ll sure feel better when I know for sure. And somehow hearing reassurances from Dr. Melo isn’t doing much to reassure me. I’m pretty sure Ruru would be confident with Melo being in charge of an open-heart surgery, but I’m not quite at that level yet. Maybe if he gets us to the 2nd round…

  9. jon abbey

    sidestep:

    Offensively, however, he’s a bust. Here’s an amazing stat: Camby had the worst shooting percentage at the rim among bigs in 2010-11; technically, he was five shots short of the minimum 150 shots, but if he had made all five he still would have been last. Wanna know what happened in 2011-12? Camby was the worst again, shooting 49.3 percent at the rim. Except this time he was four shots short of the minimum. But, again, if he’d made all four he would have been last.

    So basically, he’s just a really, really bad finisher for a player of his size, and that limits his offensive impact — especially since he can’t shoot either and his free throw shooting has gone off the rails the past couple seasons. Overall, Camby averaged an anemic 8.5 points per 40 minutes with a terrible TS%; he was just so good on the boards that he had a solid PER anyway. For as long as he continues doing so, he’ll be a…

    yeah, this would be an interesting illumination of my point on how I think efficiency has become very overrated in today’s NBA, as I don’t think Chandler’s ultraefficient “shooting” has much of an impact either. hopefully Chandler is OK, though, and we don’t have to see.

  10. Nick C.

    Jon, I don’t follow. He goes on about how Camby is horrible offensively (it sounds almost Jefferiesesque) and that relates to Chandler’s high efficiency low usage/range. I’m not trying to argue that your Chandler premise is right or wrong just don’t see a connection.

  11. ruruland

    Sidestep, that’s the exact scouting report on Camby I gave you before there was even discussion of him signing.

  12. ruruland

    thenamestsam: Exactly. A banged knee can happen any time you’re on the court, but I’ve never heard of someone getting an MRI for a banged knee. Hopefully they’re just being ultra-cautious, but I’ll sure feel better when I know for sure. And somehow hearing reassurances from Dr. Melo isn’t doing much to reassure me. I’m pretty sure Ruru would be confident with Melo being in charge of an open-heart surgery, but I’m not quite at that level yet. Maybe if he gets us to the 2nd round…

    haha. Look, Melo knows it was a precautionary test. Guys don’t shoot from the hip about teammate injuries. Of course, Tyson is probably lying too.

  13. jon abbey

    Nick C.:
    Jon, I don’t follow. He goes on about how Camby is horrible offensively (it sounds almost Jefferiesesque) and that relates to Chandler’s high efficiency low usage/range. I’m not trying to argue that your Chandler premise is right or wrong just don’t see a connection.

    I’m just saying that it’s my opinion that when someone is that low usage, it doesn’t make much of a difference how efficient they are. the difference between 40 percent shooting and 60 percent shooting on 3 shots a game is .6 PPG, and I question how much of that difference is innate skill and how much is circumstances (teammates, system, luck). in fact, if Camby got in Amare’s way less than Chandler does, he could theoretically help the team overall on offense.

  14. sidestep

    ruruland:
    Sidestep, that’s the exact scouting report on Camby I gave you before there was even discussion of him signing.

    I didn’t realize it was posted before, nor for my sake.

  15. sidestep

    jon abbey:
    the SI preview likes the Knicks and is pretty rough on Lin, FWIW. they pick NY 3rd in the East (IND 2nd) and to lose to MIA in the conference finals. they have anonymous quotes from scouts about Lin in both the NY and HOU sections:

    “I have no problem with their decision to let Jeremy Lin go-it’s like losing Tim Tebow. Last year was a perfect storm for Lin.”

    “It’s beyond me why they paid Jeremy Lin so much. Goran Dragic is better. Lin is not quick. He’s not a good ballhandler. He has good size, and when he gets in the lane, he is good at finding the open man and is not a bad finisher. But he didn’t show me he was very good at running a team.”

    It’s hard to take seriously anyone who says Lin is not quick. So much for anonymous quotes in which no one is responsible for what is said. FWIW, Hollinger has this to say about Lin in his recent assessment of the Rockets:

    “I’ll give you two predictions. First, Lin will be the real deal. In this system, with the point guard as the focus, he will thrive just as he did during the heights of Linsanity under Mike D’Antoni. And despite scouts’ misgivings about some of his weaknesses, Lin simply does too many high-value things (drawing fouls, assisting at the rim, steals and rebounds) to not be an effective player.

    Unfortunately, he won’t have much help. [...]“

  16. knicknyk

    jon abbey:
    the SI preview likes the Knicks and is pretty rough on Lin, FWIW. they pick NY 3rd in the East (IND 2nd) and to lose to MIA in the conference finals. they have anonymous quotes from scouts about Lin in both the NY and HOU sections:

    “I have no problem with their decision to let Jeremy Lin go-it’s like losing Tim Tebow. Last year was a perfect storm for Lin.”

    “It’s beyond me why they paid Jeremy Lin so much. Goran Dragic is better. Lin is not quick. He’s not a good ballhandler. He has good size, and when he gets in the lane, he is good at finding the open man and is not a bad finisher. But he didn’t show me he was very good at running a team.”

    Ahh. Do you have the link for this please would love to read. I was waiting for another hatchet job to come out. I must admit I burst out laughing at the Lin is not quick part. Makes me root even harder for him to succeed. Our organization needs to get there priorities straight. We won’t talk about Lin but we will provide anonymous sources from NY & Houston to bash him through the media.

  17. jon abbey

    I typed in those quotes from the print magazine, but those are the full quotes about Lin. I doubt that those anonymous scouts have anti-anyone agendas as SI always does that for their preview issues these days. I personally don’t really agree with those, but I did think they was interesting and worth posting.

  18. knicknyk

    jon abbey:
    I typed in those quotes from the print magazine, but those are the full quotes about Lin. I doubt that those anonymous scouts have anti-anyone agendas as SI always does that for their preview issues these days. I personally don’t really agree with those, but I did think they was interesting and worth posting.

    Oh I mis-read. I didn’t realize it said anonymous scouts. Pardon my initial statement then. Well yes, when it said he isn’t quick I laughed pretty hard. And when he said he can’t run a offense I laughed even harder cause the Rockets are running the 3rd best offense in pre-season. But it is pre-season & it is fools gold in so many ways despite what Ruru likes to tell you.

  19. Donnie Walsh

    But scouts NEVER liked Lin– he made them look stupid for passing him over, and they never seemed to recover… It’s no wonder that the scouts that rated him poorly then rate him poorly now. Why should the scouts change their mind. They’re never wrong! (Just ask that guy Cock Jowles about it).

  20. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Donnie Walsh:
    But scouts NEVER liked Lin– he made them look stupid for passing him over, and they never seemed to recover… It’s no wonder that the scouts that rated him poorly then rate him poorly now. Why should the scouts change their mind. They’re never wrong! (Just ask that guy Cock Jowles about it).

    It boggles my mind that people criticize the deal, which pays him what, $8M per year? And turns into a near-max deal in the final year that could be traded as a huge expiring for a big contract? And all for a player who, even in limited minutes, put up strong numbers in what we can call his rookie season? Yeah, the scouts are right about this guy. No ball.

  21. ruruland

    sidestep: I didn’t realize it was posted before, nor for my sake.

    It was posted for the sake of anyone who dared to repeat it without citing me as source first.

    kidding. Camby isn’t a horrible shooter though, and he can be a pretty effective high low player.

  22. ruruland

    There are definitely guys who defied scouts expectations to the point that all criticism became comical.

    Lin has more of a burst than lateral quickness, which is why he can really struggle against ball pressure. He can use his body really well and seemed to understand basket angles. He has a good vertical which is largely negated by short arms. That is why so many of his shots in paint look really odd.

    His play this preseason has been stunningly poor and should be raising some red flags about the final 15 games last year, his knee, and the true nature of that great 15 game stretch.

  23. knicknyk

    Ruru. Cut the crap when he had 12 assits the other night you were nowhere to be found but the game before when he played poorly you were talking. Once again the double standards blow my mind. The entire issue is that nobody knows what he is because of a small sample size & now you are taking an even smaller sample to prove you know what he is. Ruru I doubt he has short arms stop making things up now. Christ & how is his performance stunningly poor when he is facilitating the 3rd best offense of the pre-season?

    Anyway I am still a little bit worried about Tyson. I know they said it is just a bone bruise but they said the same about Amare. I know we can’t compare Amare’s knees to Tysons knees but still. I don’t trust the medical staff & won’t feel totally comfortable until I see Tyson actually play in two games in a row. Amare had a bone bruise, played now he is out for 2-3weeks, afraid the same will happen to Tyson.

  24. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    His wingspan is 6’5″ and his true height (w/o shoes) is 6’3″. That put him at about average for his draft class at PG. Steal numbers invalidate any sort of claim that his arms hurt his production, though.

  25. Eternal OptiKnist

    Mike Kurylo: This.But the Knicks have been so awful at keeping injuries a secret that even I’m paranoid on this one. Sure it’s just a banged knee. Every time I bang knees in the gym I go home in crutches and get an MRI. WTF!?!?!

    Whew…total bullet-dodge; glad the T-1000 is made of liquid metal. I was actually so glad that they MRI’d it, despite the fact that they thought that it was just a bruise. The reason i felt that way, was because Amare had the same accident and his bruised knee eventually had the cyst which eventually burst. The cyst would have shown on an MRI and it could have been aspirated as opposed to bursting (which i would assume would mean shorter recovery). Now, i’m not saying the bruise caused the cyst, as most of what i read says its a symptom of chronic arthritis or meniscus damage BUT maybe there could be a causal effect there. “Why the hell take a chance!! Whats the hurt in an MRI??” is what i believe was he thought process was…they both had banged knees and one turned into a problem..BE CAUTIOUS.

  26. Eternal OptiKnist

    But i will say…why the hell are the Knicks so secretive about the injuries?? Its laughable..the JR Smith ankle/achilles was so stupid! Season tickets are already sold out; i just dont see what they have to gain by doing it. They always come off foolish when they do stuff like this.

  27. Eternal OptiKnist

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: It boggles my mind that people criticize the deal, which pays him what, $8M per year? And turns into a near-max deal in the final year that could be traded as a huge expiring for a big contract? And all for a player who, even in limited minutes, put up strong numbers in what we can call his rookie season? Yeah, the scouts are right about this guy. No ball.

    Dude, i’ve never understood why everyone is so concerned about Dolan’s money all of a sudden. I care about team spend flexibility and retaining Lin would have left us in NO worse position than we were. Shoot, if Houston wanted him that bad, they would have traded for him! It was dumb to give up a young asset that clearly had interest. And i agree, for the 1st 3 years its a reasonable deal for an average PG..maybe he earns year 4..and if not, its a big, expiring deal! I just DON’T GET IT! Man, i’d love to see Lin prove everyone wrong; even if a part of me will die if that happens. Go get ‘em pal.

  28. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    His wingspan is 6’5? and his true height (w/o shoes) is 6’3?. That put him at about average for his draft class at PG. Steal numbers invalidate any sort of claim that his arms hurt his production, though.

    Long arms help wih steals. Anticipation still trumps that attribute in tersm of steals.

    Most point guards who live in lane have longer wingspans, better handle or threaten more with jump shot effectively unclogging lane at times.

    Rondo 6’9”

    Williams 6’6” 1/4

    Westbrook etc

    Lin’s best attribute is his thickness, imo. He seems pretty wide and he’s heavy. Using his body to create space is how he’ll be effective inside. Parker is a master at angles, Lin showed some of that in the 15 game stretch.

  29. knicknyk

    Yes ruru. He has short arms. I also remember you saying he has a slow release on his shot & that too was proven wrong.

  30. ruruland

    knicknyk:
    Yes ruru. He has short arms. I also remember you saying he has a slow release on his shot & that too was proven wrong.

    Not really. He has a good release when he has his feet set, but he does not get his feet set quickly because he uses a wide base.

    There was nuance in my statement. And yes, Lin’s arms are relatively short for a 6’3” guard.

  31. ruruland

    knicknyk:
    Yes ruru. He has short arms. I also remember you saying he has a slow release on his shot & that too was proven wrong.

    As a matter of comparison, look at how quickly a guy like Carmelo Anthony can get into his release, even when he’s up against a stellar defender like Deng, it’s difficult to contest his shot.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMVAe2Ldy78

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