Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, July 29, 2014

Training Camp Begins! Let the Festivies Commence!

Thank goodness – some actual basketball news!!

The official training camp begins later today, and yesterday (Media Day) had a number of interesting quotes from players and some intriguing hints as to what we can expect from this year’s Knicks.

First off, I am quite pleased about the Mo Taylor waiving. And yes, it is amusing that one of the things that alienated Larry Brown from the front office was his “waive him, him and him” attitude. While his expiring contract could be quite intriguing to other teams – exactly what were the Knicks going to get with that expiring contract that would be good for the team in the long haul? I posit that it would be nothing as good as just letting the cap space run out, and Mo Taylor has no place on this squad. I wonder, though, where he will end up playing.

Steve Francis had a good quote about last season in the Times today- ?Did you see me play? Did I play?? Francis said. ?I don?t even remember playing. It was just so much uncertainty, man. It?s tough playing under uncertainty.?

Eddy Curry has lost weight and David Lee has put on weight – both events are good news for Knick fans. Lee also apparently impressed reporters during Media Day with the sheer passion he exuded for winning this season and his frustrations with being unable to even take the blame for losing last year, as he didn’t play enough to even feel like he had control over the situation.

The four players vying for Taylor’s spot are forwards Nikoloz Tskitishvili and Elton Brown, center Paul Miller and guard Milone Clark. Clark really has no chance, and I would have to think that Tskitishvili would have to absolutely astonish everyone to get the job, so it is likely down to Miller and Brown. Brown apparently is quite the bruiser, and has even been able to give Curry a run for his money on sheer force on the low blocks, which is cool, but I think Miller sounds a bit more intriguing, as I like the added facet of a center who can shoot the jumper, as a change of pace from Curry (as I doubt any of them will play significant minutes ANYways).

Finally, I cannot wait to see what Zeke’s rotation looks like – who will be the backup small forward? Will Channing Frye be the backup center? Will Balkman play at all? Will Jerome James wear a groove into the bench from sitting so much? We find out today, for basketball has finally returned to us, folks!

55 comments on “Training Camp Begins! Let the Festivies Commence!

  1. Jim K

    I’m most intrigued/concerned about the small spots. How can/will Thomas divide up minutes between Francis & Marbury (who both will likely bitch about anything less than 35 a game), Crawford, Robinson, Richardson, Jalen Rose, Blackman and Jeffries? I don’t see how this roster can hold w/o someone getting very vocal about their lack of minutes…especially since all of them have ability but none are really stars at this point. Sure, Richardson had a lousy year last year, but he was fine the year before that, and in a running offense he could be quite valuable; who sits for him? Does Robinson ride the pines quietly after getting a lot of minutes last year? With Rose’s contract, can Thomas really just sit him? I really keep chewing over these guys, and don’t see how they become a coherent rotation…

  2. KnickerBlogger

    I have to say I wasn’t that impressed with Miller in summer league. Granted he can hit a jumper, but he didn’t show much else. However for a 12th man, and considering our lack of depth at center, I wouldn’t be opposed to giving him a chance. And summer league is only a handful of games, so maybe I was wrong about him.

    And you hit the nail on the head with the Knicks having a lot of players for the guard/swingman spots. It’s going to be interesting who gets the minutes & where.

  3. Count Zero

    Agreed — I don’t see how we can actually play a month with this roster without the bitching and moaning reaching epic proportions. Much as Francis says, “It was just so much uncertainty, man. It?s tough playing under uncertainty,” how’s he going to react when he’s *certain* he’s only going to get 18 – 22 minutes a night? Or does anybody out there actually believe playing both Marbury and Francis for 35 – 40 is a viable option?

  4. GB

    Curry lost 12 pounds…how is his conditioning though?

    Jamal says he’s going to the hole a lot more, that all his pullup jumpers from the past have let defenders ‘off the hook’.

  5. Brian Cronin

    Curry lost 12 pounds?how is his conditioning though?

    We’ll find out soon, but the reports (and I should stress that they’re just reports) are that his conditioning has been a lot better, but then again, seeing as how he didn’t do ANYthing last summer, he’d be hard pressed NOT to be better conditioned, right?

    Jamal says he?s going to the hole a lot more, that all his pullup jumpers from the past have let defenders ?off the hook?.

    Possibly the one concrete area that Larry Brown improved the Knicks was convincing Jamal Crawford to take less threes. I would love to see him take that lesson a step further and go to the basket more often.

  6. Brian Cronin

    However for a 12th man, and considering our lack of depth at center, I wouldn?t be opposed to giving him a chance.

    Yeah, that’s my main thought. Neither he nor Brown are likely to play much, so we might as well get a change of pace guy in there (who we don’t know concretely stinks – like Skita).

  7. Ben

    I actually think that Brown should be the one we sign with the last spot. Neither should play at all not even during garbage time. They should spend the season on the inactive list. So what you want is someone who is going to play hard and aggressively during practice. Miller is very soft and would be no help at practice.

  8. Nixluva

    I’m very pleased with the overall response of the players this summer. Most worked on tthe things they were supposed to work on. I think the way things will fall with the guards will be much like Isiah, Dumars and Johnson. 36, 34 & 25 for Steph, Francis and Jamal respectively. Nate will get any leftovers and he’ll likely see more PT on 2nd night of back to backs, in case of injury or foul trouble. Nate will also rack up time during any blowouts, so he’ll look like he got more minutes than were possible for him to get due to that.

    This team will be much improved, mainly due to more minutes going to our best players. Unlike last year there won’t be anymore Malik, Mo or AD etc. The guys that will be playing are our most productive players. They’re also good team players as well. Jared, Frye & Lee will be a big source of glue to this roster.

  9. Brian Cronin

    I actually think that Brown should be the one we sign with the last spot. Neither should play at all not even during garbage time. They should spend the season on the inactive list. So what you want is someone who is going to play hard and aggressively during practice. Miller is very soft and would be no help at practice.

    Certainly a reasonable point. I wouldn’t mind having Brown (although I still am sticking with Miller!).

  10. cambridge1

    i think it wont be impossible to divide up the minutes (although from the back court it will be a challenge)

    first of all, i dont think anyone has a right to the minutes, so marbury and francis will only get their minutes if they FIGHT hard for them. one problem i had with larry brown is he didnt use the fact that players on the next really had to compete for time as a motivational tool, rewarding those who gave it their all. instead we saw mo taylor and jalen rose on the court playing no d and david lee riding the bench,

    I digress. assuming there are NO injuries (which is very unlikely on any team) i would probably divide the minutes like this:

    Guards
    Steph 33 minutes. Steph is getting older and could actually use some rest so he could play fresh and hard throughout the game. Steph has averaged 38m/year in his career so 33 would be a step off, albeit not drastic.

    Steve 27 minutes. Steve didn’t show a lot of heart last year but was clearly at one point an explosive asset in the league. if he can use his 27 minuets efficiently he could be a dangerous player. if he improves his defense and regains an all star level of
    play, he can always get more time.

    Jamaal Crawford 33 minutes. Jamaal was the backcourt leader of this team last year. He took the tough shots and led by example. He deserves the most minutes in the backcourt and the chance to continue to lead the team.

    this only leaves 3 mpg for Nate Robinson, but I can imagine nate taking more minutes from steve and steph when they arent playing solid defense, when someone in the backcourt is injured (which is possible for francis), when the older guys need to rest, etc. I think nate is an exciting prospect for the team, so this is the big question mark i am leaving out of my plans. I acknowedge it isnt perfect.

    The wing
    Jared Jeffries- If jared brings the defense and rebounding that the front office has promised (which is left to be seen), he should get 25 mpg. at the small foward, which is around his career average.

    Renaldo Balkman- Balkman is being promoted as an energy player who will lead by examlple by hustling. If he can back it up with solid play, i would like to see him on the court for at least 10 mpg. It is worth remembering he is a rookie wiith a lot of question marks. I like him, but it isnt crucial to give him a ton of playing time this year.

    Q Rich- Richardson is a team leader. He is also a player with a chronic back problem. With his medical history I see him getting 13 minutes of play. If he can regain his 3 point shot, and get enough mobility to play the d he is capable of, I would like him on the court for about a quarter/game.

    Jalen Rose- Jalen rose is a bum on the last year of his contract who plays no defense. He deserves no playing time, but if he can act as a leader off the bench, conduct himself with humility, and come into games when we are desperate for some offensive production, he will have served his job.

    The front court is a bit easier.

    Channing Frye can play center and pf.
    David Lee can play PF
    Curry can play C

    Because these are the three players we can reasonably expect to get production from i will divide the minutes between them

    Malik Rose and Jerome James can fill in when our big three are tired or injured, but they are of a level of quality below the big three.

    Channing Frye is a stud. He is also recovering from a serious injury. With 33 mpg (only 3 less minutes per game than D Howard last year) he could do some serious damage without commiting serious wear and tear on his still recovering body.

    David Lee is a stud. He hustles, works hard and makes things happen on the floor.He also supposedly has bulked up. I think he should have somewhere around 33 minutes/ game at the PF position.

    Eddy Curry is a great offensive weapon who still needs to develop other aspects of his game. As is, I just dont see the man getting past 30 mpg.

    In this scheme Jerome James, Jalen Rose get completely shafted albeit fairly.

    Nate gets shafted and this is the one big flaw in my plan.

    Maybe he can take some time from Francis who has not proven himself.

    Malik Rose is a good citizen on the team but he has no real future with us. There is no point to involving him significantly, except as a threat to keep the youngsters in the fron court on their feet and fighting for their jobs.

    well thats my plan.

    its not perfect, but i think its very solid.

  11. Kiya

    Many has disagreed with me however, I think the Knicks should’ve kept Mo Taylor on the roster.
    His value was too great to even think about waiving. Plus half of his salary will be on next season salary cap I found out
    (plus Philly is still trying to trade Webber, and Taylor & Malik would be a decent trade for Webber).

    The Knicks are set at the Guard spot with just 4-players (Marbury, Francis, Crawford, and Nate).
    If any injury occures you have Rookie Collins.
    No! Q.Rich do not belong in any NBA Teams Backcourt, PG-Nash proved that in the 2004-5 season on the Suns.

    The Knicks SF position is covered by players Jefferies, Jalen, and Rookie Balkman.
    No! Q.Rich can not squeeze in there either, each player has something that Q.Rich can not match at the SF position.

    The Knicks PF position maybe the weakest area when oponents experience Frontcourt Players get Frye & Lee into early foul trouble (not to mention when the Knicks Backcourt players let their man drive pass them) and the Knicks have to depend on Malik Rose to hold it down.
    Mo Taylor ending contract could’ve been efficient for that job rather than Malik Rose.

    The Knicks Center of attention will come out this season and MAN the Middle of the Paint.
    Do not SLEEP on Curry or James this 2006-7 Season, those two players will WIN alot of Knick Games this season.

    The Knicks Coach have an easy job this season in just drawing up an easy system plan that fits various NBA Teams that a 8 to 9 man roster could pull an above 500% season out of.
    The Knicks Coach has a roster of well rounded Talent, Skillz, Athletcism, and his main priority is getting Chemistry to go with all that and letting his 48 minute Star Points (Marbury & Francis) lead the way.

  12. Kiya

    The Knicks Coach have an easy job this season in just drawing up an easy system plan that fits various NBA Teams that a 8 to 9 man STEADY ROTATION could pull an above 500% season out of.

    The Knicks Coach has a roster of well rounded Talent, Skillz, Athletcism, and his main priority is getting Chemistry (a steady rotation) to go with all that and letting his 48 minute Star Points (Marbury & Francis) lead the way.

  13. Jim K

    I agree with all said, save that when guys like Francis and Marbury are making so many millions a year (and Thomas is pressed to win NOW) he won’t sit them a) to avoid alienating them and b) he’ll only be able to trade them if they put up stats.

    So yes, in the above posts people seem to be putting Nate on the pine, but I think young Nate’s ego won’t allow him to keep his mouth shut, especially after he played 20+ minutes a game last year (and well enough to have earned time). And then, even if you bench Jalen Rose (who I doubt will go quietly), you still have Jeffries, Blackman and Richardson looking for time, and with their investment in Jeffries, I don’t see him sitting, and Richardson won’t have trade value unless he produces — so it looks like a struggling team whose only bright spot last year was its young guns will be sitting two of them (Robinson and Blackman) for vets who are certainly good enough to play, but perhaps not good enough to win. Even Jalen Rose is still an adequate player — if he didn’t have an onerous contract I suspect a lot of teams could use him for fifteen a night.

    And with James again injured on the 1st day of training, it reminds us that the Knicks are short a big man — gee, Jackie Butler, we hardly knew ya…

    Then again, perhaps Tshishkivili is the answer!

  14. Count Zero

    Well, it’s obvious that opinions run the gamut…

    Kiya: Why would we want to trade for Webber? You assert that Curry and James are going to “man” the middle. Then worry that Frye and Lee will get beaten up on D by experienced PFs, and that Mo Taylor would have alleviated this?!? I presume that’s why you want Webber…who ummmm…plays no defense?!? Thus making sure that you will never develop Frye and Lee while you’re playing Webber to get another no D, offense-minded player on the floor???

    Honestly…some of this stuff scares me. If you really think Nate is a real NBA player then why would you allot him only 3 minutes per game in his sophomore season?!? And Mardy Collins (who many of you claimed was a good draft choice) — he gets zero minutes? So then, I guess he really wasn’t much of a draft choice was he?

    IMHO, releasing Mo Taylor was just about the only intelligent thing this team has done so far. Malik should probably be next, followed by Quentin. Then you give Francis 40 minutes a night and run lots of plays for him in the hope that you can get somebody to offer you something valuable for him…like a young PG or draft picks. Jalen…maybe we can use him as a coat rack or something… ;-)

  15. GB

    Heres a question I always ask of my own team when the season starts:

    Which teams in the division and in the conference are surefire wins? As in, “every time we step onto the court against _______ we should come away with the ‘W’”.

    Then I ask myself, “who are my teams peers, the teams in conference where it won’t come down to talent, but experience, fatigue, injuries, suspensions, home court, etc”

    How are those questions answered for you guys?

  16. KnickerBlogger

    Nixluva Said:
    I?m very pleased with the overall response of the players this summer. Most worked on tthe things they were supposed to work on.

    The Daily News reported that Zeke requested the players show up to camp early, and only 4 players complied (Frye and Lee the most notable). Jerome James is already hurt, and according to this article Eddy Curry couldn’t finish his windsprints.

    Personally, I’m not too impressed.

  17. Count Zero

    Hehe, KB. My favorite part was this:

    Thomas said part of the reason for Curry’s poor season last year was that Brown (Thomas didn’t mention him by name) didn’t play the big man enough.

    “It probably had more to do with minutes played than anything,” the coach said. “He averaged 25 minutes a night and got 13.6 points and six rebounds and shot close to 58 percent from the field. That’s pretty damn good to do in 25 minutes. My job is to get him out on the floor to make him more productive.”

    Ummm…did he watch any games? Is his memory that bad? It’s kind of tough to get more minutes when you generally have your third foul with 10 to play in the 2nd. And that would be because…you don’t move your feet on D, and that would be because…you’re overweight and lazy and you get tired five minutes into the game. :D

    Hey, don’t get me wrong — I actually believe Curry is a potential All-Star. But there’s a lot of work and effort between here and there, and so far he hasn’t shown me he’s inclined to do that much work.

  18. Ken Bannister

    I’m the furthest thing from a Zeke supporter, but Thomas’s quote in the papers wasn’t a shot at Brown: the tabloids merelyspun it that way. Thomas said “It probably had to do more than minutes played than anything.” One can assume that the next (unsaid) sentence would have been, “because my hall of fame/lousy coach wouldn’t play him,” OR you could assume that he’d have followed with, “Because Eddy was constantly in foul trouble, never got in shape, is a subpar defender, etc., etc.”

    The papers CHOSE to interpret it as a swipe at Brown. They could just as easily have assumed that Thomas is well aware of the reasons for Eddy’s limited play but, (Unlike Brown did time and time again last year) chose not to rip Eddy in the papers. Zeke may be a lousy GM (OK he is a lousy GM), but if he’s gonna succeed, he knows he has to have these guys squarely in his corner — Curry as much as anyone on the roster. I tend to believe the latter interpretation of Thomas’s quote.

    Regarding Jerome James, I’d much rather have Curry/Frye/Lee split the 96 minutes available at the 4/5 spots (w/Jeffries getting spot duty when th team goes small) than throw away 10 minutes a game on James just b/c he’s 7’2″. His injury is a blessing (and reinforces how stupid it was not to re-sign Jackie Butler)…

  19. Brian Cronin

    I love Jackie Butler, so it pains me that I have to be petty and hope he sucks as a Spur…hehe.

  20. Count Zero

    Valid point Ken. OK, I’ll get on the positive side of the quote with you. :-)

    And yeah, I really hated to see Jackie go, and I’m really hoping that won’t be (yet another) “I told you so!” two months into the season.

  21. Ken Bannister

    Hate to be a downer, but Jackie Butler’s going to have a good season with the Spurs. He’ll get 20-25 mpg playing along side Duncan et al. and probably average 10ppg and 6rpg with a PER in the high teens — i.e. a very effective, underpaid, young center, similar to what Zaza Pachulia did (albeit under the radar) with Atlanta or Diop did with Dallas — both of whom I wanted much more than Jerome James a year ago at this time.

    That being said, I’ll still pull for “Heavy Paper”, just the way I rooted for Nazr Mohammed, Anthony Mason, Rod Strickland, Mark Jackson, and yes, even Tim Thomas when they left/were traded too soon/etc.

  22. dave crockett

    one way to potentially address the minutes logjam among the smalls is to go the hubie brown route and play 10 guys in a set rotation.

    of course this roster wasn’t constructed to run like that. but apart from the minutes issue i’m really curious to see what the offense will look like under thomas. isiah named 5 coaches from whom he has derived his offensive philosphy (bob knight, john wooden, tex winter, chuck daly, and somebody else).

    on the other side of the ball i strongly suspect the defense will continue to allow dribble penetration, won’t block shots, and won’t rebound well.

  23. mason

    Any ideas as to a single lineup with the current roster that would play sufficient cohesive defense to make games winable?
    -Nate Robinson, Jeffries, Frye at center, Crawford, Lee…is our best starting lineup.

    What then is Isiah going to do with all those maxed out egos he signed?

    Personnally, I would like to see Isiah out of the picture as coach and someone else instead because all the talk out of preseason is offense which was not an issue, ever.

  24. Knicky

    The lineup I cant wait to see is JJ/Lee/Balkman/Nate. Obviously a smallball lineup but when used in the right situations,a devastating,smothering,rebounding defensive unit that will get us back into games.2 guard could be Steph-who plays well with lee, Q who really improved his D last year or Crawford who plays well with Nate.

  25. hotdamn

    Please stop putting Jerome James out there like he’s a part of the Knicks. We should just let Herb Williams be our backup center…at least he’d hustle a little. I’m sorry any post that has Jerome James doing anything next year is off the charts. I watched most of the games last year (I’m not saying that I enjoyed the season, but I watched our players), and Jerome James might have had a total of 10 good minutes of time over the course of the entire season. I guess I needed to vent because this doesn’t come as a surprise to 99 percent of you. There I said it…

  26. Brian Cronin

    Please stop putting Jerome James out there like he?s a part of the Knicks. We should just let Herb Williams be our backup center?at least he?d hustle a little. I?m sorry any post that has Jerome James doing anything next year is off the charts. I watched most of the games last year (I?m not saying that I enjoyed the season, but I watched our players), and Jerome James might have had a total of 10 good minutes of time over the course of the entire season. I guess I needed to vent because this doesn?t come as a surprise to 99 percent of you. There I said it?

    Your venting is bizarre.

    I mean, have you actually READ the comments you’re responding to here?

    Precisely ONE person mentioned James as being an important part of the rotation. ONE.

    ONE commenter, and that translates into “99 percent of you”?!?

  27. hotdamn

    “I guess I needed to vent because this doesn?t come as a surprise to 99 percent of you.”

    Brian, I have actually READ the comments posted and was responding to the 3 comments posted about Jerome having a “monster” season.

    If you stopped being snotty for a second you would have READ my post that said I was just venting and that 99-percent of the posters would agree with the rant that Jerome is a bum.

  28. Brian Cronin

    It’s funny how the use of a comma is so important.

    “I guess I needed to vent because this doesn?t come as a surprise to 99 percent of you” is a snotty comment about 99 percent of us, to which you got my snotty reply.

    “I guess I needed to vent, because this doesn?t come as a surprise to 99 percent of you.” is a snotty comment towards 1 percent of us (however, the position being vented about was so silly, I would not mind a snotty comment in response to it), which I don’t have a problem with.

    So remember, kids, commas are important!

  29. Kiya

    Here’s something to vent on, the Knicks waive Mo Taylor who will bust his chops in his ending contract season, and three days later Jerome James goes down and may miss the first half of the season with a cyst in his foot.

    Jackie Butler $7 million for 3 seasons is sure looking good now.

  30. KnickerBlogger

    Jackie Butler $7 million for 3 seasons was looking good back in July as well.

    I guess we’re going to see a lot more Frye at center this year. Could this mean that Paul Miller makes the roster?

  31. Ken Bannister

    Considering the 4/5 ‘tweeners that comprise the vast majority of Centers in the East, having Frye log 15-20mpg at Center instead of Jerome “Dancing with the Stars” James, would be great. I’d much rather have Marbs/Craw/Nate/Francis running the pick and roll with Frye at the 5 (like Marbs and Kurt Thomas/Doleac did so (“so” being a relative term) successfully in 03′-04′. It’d keep the opposing “center” away from the basket (more room for the aforementioned quartet to drive and kick/finish and Frye wouldn’t have to kill himself defending some of the better PF’s (Rasheed, J.O’Neal, Villanueva, Bosh, Okafor, Howard, Jamison, Webber). This of course means more pt for Lee at the 4. Considering he’s the best rebounder on the team by far, it seems like a win-win situation

  32. mason

    “Lee-Frye-Curry taking up all the 4-5 minutes would be COMPLETELY fine by me! ”

    As well as JARED getting mins. thats the rotation, agreed.
    As for the backcourt logjam, HOW do Q-Rich, Nate and Craw get minutes along side Francis and Marbury?

    how do you play ‘run and gun’ with 4 shoot-first, half court PG’s running the offense?

  33. Ken Bannister

    Regading the run n’ gun…

    I actually think the claims of Steph being “selfish” (as a player on the court) are apocryphal. After 2+ years of watching him on the Knicks, I’ve seen him get tons of easy baskets for players as diverse in skills as Nazr Mohammed, Kurt Thomas, Michael Doleac, Eddy Curry and Channing Frye — all due to his ability to beat most opposing guards off the dribble. The moments where he takes over scoring-wise have almost always been due to the fact that no one else on the floor could put the damn ball in the hole. I think given a set rotation, he’d have no problem running the team in half-court.

    With regards to the “Phoenix offense” The question is a bit more tricky. Marbs does like to finish himself ont he break. There are two keys to having a devastating fast break. One, you need wing players who can just flat out beat opposing players down the floor. Phoenix had this in spades the last two years (Amare, Marion, Johnson, Diaw, et al.) So do/did the Nets w/KMart, Jefferson, Carter, and Kittles). You also need rebounders, specifically ones who pass well enough to start the break or who are good enough ballhandlers to initiate it ont heir own (the aforementioned Kidd, Magic Johnson, Pippen, Jordan, etc.) Do we have anyone comparable on the roster?

    Our best hope is again, David Lee playing 30+mpg. He’s our best rebounder and is from the small sample of evidence, our best big man when it comes to passing and ballhandling. We severely lack finishers on the break. Francis can dunk, but he’s going to have to get used to finsihing off the pass rather than the dribble. Crawford too, needs to learn to comlement the break rather than initiate it. QRich was on that Phoenix team, but he was more often than not, the trailer hitting threes. Perhaps Jeffries can be an asset in this regard. It’s a question of personnel. A motion offense, a halfcourt offense, can be highly succesful here. We certainly don’t lack players who can score. But a running team is going to take time.

  34. Brian Cronin

    Agreed, regarding Stephon’s “selfishness.”

    I remember many times praying that no one BUT Stephon would shoot the ball, as, if he is not getting double-teamed, he should be able to get a good look every time – and if they double him, then that’s just as good!

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