Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, October 20, 2014

Trade Deadline Open Thread

About 5 minutes to go before the official trade deadline. Thoughts?

63 comments on “Trade Deadline Open Thread

  1. oboogie

    considering isiah has no interest in acquiring cap relief or 1st round picks, i think inactivity is clearly the best route for the trade deadline.

  2. David Crockett

    Looks like nothing from the Knicks. I’m only mildly surprised, as I thought Thomas might try to swing a minor deal for another player who could run some point, as Crawford is clearly wearing down.

  3. emac2

    I’m sure he has tried but I’m happy he hasn’t made any of the stupid moves he has had available.

    Play for the number one pick and sign Artest in the offseason

  4. ScottD

    No trades,

    Sounds like Isiah might have been told not to make any trades?
    If that’s the case that’s the best news I’ve heard all day.

  5. JVG

    So after all the rumors, the trade deadline has come and passed without the Bricks making any trades. What does this mean?

    Zach Randolph and Eddy Curry, Knicks for Life! ;-)

  6. Spider Cider

    Please don’t tell me Toronto traded with NY. As much as I want Dixon out of Toronto, there’s nobody on NY I’d want in return (unless IT was crazy enough to trade Balkman or Lee).

  7. Caleb

    from ESPN’s Marc Stein:

    “…the deal calls for the Cavaliers to receive Wallace, Szczerbiak, Seattle point guard Delonte West, Chicago’s Joe Smith and a future second-round pick from the Bulls.

    The Bulls, apparently abandoning their gamble on Wallace less than two seasons into the lucrative four-year deal they used to sign him away from Detroit, would get Cavaliers forward Drew Gooden and swingman Larry Hughes along with Cavs reserves Cedric Simmons and Shannon Brown.

    The Sonics, shedding Szczerbiak in the name of additional payroll flexibility, come away with the expiring contracts of Cleveland’s Ira Newble and Chicago’s Adrian Griffin as well as Cavs veteran Donyell Marshall.”

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3257159

  8. Frank

    boy this guy Sam Presti is frickin brilliant. Check this out from CNNSI:

    “Seattle originally yielded a second-round pick to Phoenix in the preseason while agreeing to take on Thomas’ salary in addition to a pair of first-rounders from Phoenix. Adding that to the haul they received from San Antonio, the Sonics have ultimately netted a trio of first-round picks as well as Francisco Elson, Brent Barry and cash — all for one conditional second-round draft choice.”

    So since coming in, he’s traded Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis (neither of whom was going to be useful long term for them), drafted Durant and Jeff Green, has something like 13 draft picks in the next 3 drafts including 6 in the 1st rounds, has engineered $15M in expiring contracts for this year, another 17M or so after next season (assuming they pick up options on Durant and Green). Not sure if I did the math right but they are only $8M over the cap right now so by the end of the 08-09 season they could be $20+M under the cap in terms of current obligations.

    Add to that a promising start of Green, Durant, and 6 first rounders (with at least 2 of them being probable lottery picks) over the next 3 years, and we could be looking at a powerhouse pretty soon out west or wherever they relocate to.

    Just wanted to bring up an example of true housecleaning. We need some of that.

  9. Brendan

    There needs to be some sort of prize for the first NBA fan to adequately explain just what the Bulls think they’re doing. Yeah, they dumped Wallace, but they took on an equally bad contract in the form of Hughes (and isn’t he the homeless man’s Ben Gordon anyway?), and Drew Gooden is not exactly a difference maker; mostly he just keeps Tyrus Thomas riveted to the bench. I have no idea what this trade achieves for them, other than maybe getting Noah some minutes and “shaking things up.” That team needs to be burned down almost as badly as the Knicks do.

  10. Funky

    You have to like that trade for the Cavs. It’s probably not enough to get past Boston though, barring an injury to Garnett or Pierce.

  11. Spider Cider

    Chicago got burned, Cleveland did exactly what they needed to do (I actually really like the construction of their team now), and Seattle continued their incredible rebuilding job. Suck on that, Memphis. That’s how you get rid of unwanted players, especially ones with market value like Gasol.

  12. Frank

    Wally will be great for the Cavs — could anyone on that team hit a 3 pointer to save their lives other than LeBron occasionally? Damon Jones is a shell of himself. And with Wallace, Varejao, and Ilgauskas– that is some serious beef inside.

    Funny how little Knicks talk there is on a site called knickerblogger. I love Isiah Thomas and Duck Folan.

  13. Frank

    Meanwhile, is it HARD to be an NBA GM? There are only 12-15 players on the team, and the rules of the cap are relatively straightforward. It’s not like baseball where you have 25-40 players on the roster at any given time, 9 everyday positions, and minor leagues to deal with. Or football where you have about thousand contracts going on at once and a hard cap to boot. It seems to me that with 82games.com, NBA league pass, and the trade machine, you should pretty much be able to do 80% of your work sitting in your PJs at home. The other 20% involves flying to Europe and watching basketball, sounds awful. What actually qualifies someone like that Memphis GM who if I’m not mistaken destroyed the Boston franchise before going to Memphis and laying an egg there, or someone like our brilliant IT to be a GM? I honestly think half the posters on this board could be legitimate GMs in this league. Of course I’m preaching to the choir here but really, it doesn’t seem hard.

  14. Spider Cider

    Not only did Cleveland get a valuable 3 point shooter and a much-needed serviceable PG, but check out their front line now. Big Z, Varejao, Big Ben, Joe Smith. That’s as deep a front line as you’ll find the league. Z and Smith can stretch the D out to 18 feet, and all 4 of those guys can rebound and defend. Cleveland just put themselves in Boston/Detroit territory.

  15. Z

    Well, this is as far as I go I’m afraid.

    The only hope this season held for me was that something would change– first in the form of changing the GM, and then from there changing the roster along with the overall philosophy of team governance. Since this team is officially the final version of the 2007-2008 Knicks, and with a disparaging few players on the roster that I can even root for, I am checking out– cutting my losses in time and energy, turning my back, and walking away from the team…

    I’ll be back, probably in three months or so when the draft and the off-season offer a renewed chance to waste my time hoping for improvement for the franchise. At the time that I do return to my beloved Knicks, tuning in to see the state of the franchise, I hope for just four small changes to have been made.

    1) May Isiah no longer be associated in any way with the team. A new coach and a new GM, and with them the freedom to purge the roster and play the players that give the Knicks the best chance of winning games.

    2) May Dolan have sold the Knicks to absolutely anybody else.

    3) May Zach Randolph play for one of the other 29 teams in the league. As long as he is a Knick I can never fully come back to the team as a fan.

    4) May Kenny Smith be replaced on MSG telecasts by Marv Albert.

    Maybe, when I return to the Knicks, it will be like waking up from a bad dream. That the last eight years didn’t really happen. That Checkets and Grunfeld are still actually in charge of the team. That Marv is still telling fans that the foul will be “a non shooting affair”.

    I probably should have divorced myself from the team on draft day– the point in time I knew for sure our relationship suffered from irreconcilable differences. Like a beaten spouse, though, I stood by my man, blaming my own high expectations, and thinking “well, maybe Zach Randolph will have changed.” Old habits die hard, and following the Knicks has been like eating and breathing for me over the past 25 years. But today I liberate myself.

    Like Ted Nelson, Mr. Black, Frank O., and others who’s passion and interest in the team has dwindled away since pre-season, I am the latest casualty of Jim Dolan and his band of losers. So good luck, KnickerBlogger Nation– you all have made this season infinitely more enjoyable than a 16-38 record has any right to be. Keep calling for the kids to play. Keep calling for Isiah to be caned. Keep begging Dolan to sell…

    I leave it up to you, because I am officially OUT.

  16. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    Bye Z,

    I’m right there with you. I really only watch these days to see what kind of game Lee will have and for the possibility that Crawford will try to bounce the ball off his head and into the basket

  17. Jobu

    As a Bulls fan, I’ll try to reply to Brendan.

    Wallace had to go. I’ve experienced the frustration that is Eddy Curry, this was worse. He ‘s a dog, and only getting older. I find it somewhat akin to what’s going on @ MSG right now where several, highly paid, veteran, frontcourt players were blocking the younger, energetic, and equally talented fan favorites on the bench.

    Many Bulls fans were pining for Thomas & Noah to get some serious burn on the floor. Joe Smith’s departure should remedy that as well. Smith played pretty well in Chicago, but ultimately didn’t need to be here. Close to 60 frontcourt minutes/game went out, half of that is coming to Chicago in the form of Gooden.

    Hughes is dogshit. I have no delusions of grandeur about what sort of player he is. But, he is a *tad* cheaper and will, at times, solve the Bulls’ backcourt munchkin-itis.

  18. Mr. Black

    Ken “The Animal” Bannister Said:
    February 21st, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    “Bye Z,

    I’m right there with you. I really only watch these days to see what kind of game Lee will have and for the possibility that Crawford will try to bounce the ball off his head and into the basket”

    That was racist.

  19. Chris

    If i could redo this team i’d love a rotation that included:

    A shot blocking center that can score 16-18pts a game. Backed up by Randolph Morris.
    David Lee. Backed up by Randolph Morris.
    Renaldo Balkman. Backed up by Wilson Chandler
    Crawford: backed up by mardy Collins
    A pass first point guard who can knock down the three and defend: backed up by Nate

    That rotation might lack a little scoring punch but I think it’d be a cohesive unit with the potential to grow together. Of course its hard to say if it would be cohesive without actually naming a point guard or a center.

    Although ive been going to this site for over a year ive never posted on it before. however our team is playing so poorly that I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

    First the obvious people to go:

    Jerome James aka BIG snacks
    Malik Rose
    Isiah Thomas. I stuck up for him for a long time including up until the beginning of this season. but at this point its clear he has lost the team and hasn’t assembled a balanced roster either.

    Then I’d get rid of:
    BOTH curry and randolph, as well as Marbury

    Curry is heartless and he can’t defend or rebound.
    Although Randolph is a prolific scorer and a great rebounder the offense becomes stagnant once he gets the ball. He also doesn’t defend.
    Neither of these guys show any leadership.
    Although I still like Marbury I think he just has to go. Although he was playing well when he was inexplicably benched he still has no right to abandon his team like that. Hes not a leader, has lost some quickness, and doesn’t finish his and 1’s anymore.

    After this it becomes harder of who to keep and who to stay. We have a logjam at the small forward spot. Q is a hard worker and seems to be a good teammate but this year hes having a horrible season. His shooting percentage is atrocious. Is this just for this season or would you send him packing?
    Balkman is energetic off the bench but sometimes I question his attitude. He also can’t shoot.
    Along those same lines Jefferies is a terrible shooter so much so that I belive hes a liability on the floor. Hes been playing better lately but in some ways hes like balkman just longer. He seems to be a better teammate though. Do you keep Balkman or Jeffries or both? Im not sure.
    I think this guy Wilson Chandler is going to be a special player. From what I saw in summer league he was impressive I think he needs to get more minutes. If we got rid of Q and either Jeffries or Balkman I wouldn’t mind having chandler start or come off the bench and get 20 min. a game.

    Crawford can still take over a game, is a good teammate, and gets some assists. However hes a shooting guard and he shoots 40%??? And that’s practically if not a career high for him??? He also isn’t a good defender. Would he stay or should he go?
    Fred Jones. He doesn’t seem to be anything special to me. Hes athletic and a good defender but im just not sure about him. I think I rather have mardy Collins.
    Collins played really well down the strech last season. Their was a few games when he flirted with a triple double. Now this year he hasn’t been getting as many minutes but when he does get them he doesn’t seem to produce like he did last year. Is this just a soph. slump or was last year a mirage.

    Nates been playing very well this year but I still think hes most effective coming off the bench.

  20. justins

    is Derrick rose related to jalen rose they both look fairly similar both left handed and have the same last name

  21. Indian guy

    wouldve been nice to dump Q and add a nice young pointguard like lowry or marcus Williams but now we gotta get a PG in the draft

  22. cbrooklyn

    I dread to see what the rest of this season holds…

    if we couldn’t trade/give away any of these players at mid season, what happens after the league GM’s watch these guys play a full season?

  23. Frank O.

    Z: Good call

    It is a strange phenomena…All this time, I’ve been saying the best move is no move. Let bad contracts sunset and get cap healthy because any trade is just a plea to get ripped off. Or salary dumps…
    And yet, I confess, no move at all, now that it is clear there is no move, also leaves me strangely disillusioned.
    Perhaps some of you have experienced this, but it’s slightly like a death in the family that was expected. And yet when it happens, it still hurts terribly. Now, this is nothing like that really. But the surprise you feel at a sense of loss nonetheless is what I mean.

    Having said that, I was where Z is a couple months ago. Only Zeke’s departure will signal any significant change, and they hire someone with some gravitas. Colangelo (sic?) might be the guy.

    One thing has been achieved this year, however. I’m seeing more and more people refer to them, rightfully, as the Bricks.
    While I’m sure that’s not original, I hadn’t seen many use it here other than me. Now I see it more often…:)
    A dubious distinction…

  24. John

    i would love to write off this season and this blog now because there is no hope for this team this year.

    i am glad IT didn’t do anything but he should at least tried to get a PG for something. I can see crawford just shaking his head, curry eating a bucket of wings saying “whatever” and Z-Bo sticking to his 20-10 no matter what.

    Next step has to be IT getting fired…..it just has to be because any average basketball executive will tell you the Knicks can’t get it done this way.

    Let’s start the ’08 draft thread because there isn’t much else to talk about with this team.

  25. jon abbey

    doesn’t PER only measure offense? Gasol is very good on that end, he just gives too much back on the other (Bynum may help with this once he’s back).

  26. JMoore

    WE need to get rid of Isiah and all the idiots bringing these clowns to our team. Trading current players for worse players. When is this gonna end and we can get back to winning. Look at our roster, terrible group of clowns that I can’t even stand to watch. Scrap it all and lets build around David Lee and young guys. Use the draft instead of giving away each guy we get. Find someone who knows talent and has a good system. This is a shame and has really turned me off from even wanting to follow or watch this team. I find myself being ashamed to tell people I’m a Knicks fan. Bring back Oaks, Ewing, Starks and Mason. This sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  27. Brendan

    Jobu- I get what you’re saying, and in some way the basic move makes sense, but…it’s like with the Knicks: What’s the overall plan? Dumping Wallace half-undoes the mistake of signing him (although the bad contract remains), but what you’re left with is still a collection of players in search of a team, a plan, a system, etc. When you think about it, that phenomenon of talent-without-a-plan is the common thread among a lot of bad East teams- NY, Milwaukee, Charlotte, ATL, and the Bulls. Maybe Indy as well.

    I can understand needing a player off the team so bad you don’t care what the return is (that’d be how I feel about Curry and Zbo), and you’re right that this does clear some frontcourt space for them; but for this to be a forward move and not a lateral shuffle, I think Chicago needs to make several more changes this summer.

    In re: Knicks, does anyone get the sense that trying to understand why the Knicks didn’t make a deal is starting to resemble Kremlinology, or maybe building a criminal profile? is there any sporting edifice more opaque than the Garden these days?

  28. Shakes

    Brendan:

    Ben Wallace is putting up the worst offensive season for a center in the history of the league. Given he’s not the force he once was on defense or the boards, and he’s a locker room cancer to boot, dumping him for ANYTHING is a good deal for the bulls.

    Gooden swapped with Smith is basically getting a younger version of a similar sort of player: average big who can rebound a bit and shoot a few shots. Both expire next year, but Gooden’s contract is bigger, which helps down the line if Chicago want to make a trade during the off season (when Hinrich and Noc’s contracts become non-BYC, or a sign-and-trade with Deng or Gordon).

    Getting Hughes obviously sucks, but his contract is slightly better than Wallace’s, and expires at the same time so doesn’t really hurt.

    What this does for the bulls is opens Wallace’s minutes for Thomas, Noah and Gray, all of which are much more important for Chicago’s future than Wallace, and arguably more likely to help the team win right now (in Noah’s case, I don’t think it’s even arguable, he’s outplayed Wallace when given the chance).

    The downside is that Hughes in the back court crowds out Thabo who has started to show something since Gordon has been injured. However, with Deng being in and out this year with injury, some minutes might be open for him at SF anyway. Then in the off season I expect Gordon to be signed and traded or take the QO anyway (given the bulls and Gordon weren’t anywhere close on salary during extension negotiations).

  29. AZ

    Hey there Knick fans,

    As a lifelong Knicks die-hard, I feel for all of you out there.

    It seems that there is no guarentee that IT will be sent packing and lose his NY privileges. (By the way, is IT able to walk the streets of NY? I can’t imagine him being safe on the streets…)

    Here’s to a better year in 08-09.

    Lord, let us find a pass first PG and a another home for Eddy or Zack, or both. Yeah, both sounds good.

    Also, allow Mr. Marbury to follow his dreams all the way to Italy.

    Lastly, allow James Dolan to… ah, I cannot wish death nor paralysis to anyone. Allow IT and JD to leave the NBA behind and skip, hand in hand, all the way to hell together.

    (I have this fantasy in which Marbury, Curry, Z-bo, Jeffies, and James are all found guilty in the assault of murder (whatever) of I. Thomas. That would be one of the happiest days of my life. All them fools off the books and IT gone.)

    Sincerely,

    AZ

  30. Indian guy

    you guys r so fake that it sickens me. I for one am a true knicks fan who will watch every second of knicks basketball this season no matter how bad they r. I will stick by my team thru good and bad because that’s what a true fan does. Okay so maybe we have a horrible roster and he worst owner and gm but we’ve got a nice core of guys in lee, balkman and Robinson and we most likely will get a good draft pick in this years draft. So stop whining and moaning and pick up ur di*k

  31. Caleb

    Re; the Bulls/Cavs/Sonics… You could say it’s basically a good deal for everyone but not really a blockbuster.

    For the Bulls, it’s pretty much an even trade on talent and money, but they got younger. Larry Hughes might be wildly overpaid but he’s not going to get worse in two years. Drew Gooden’s probably the best player in the whole deal. Bulls have a nice young lineup, but that’s nothing new…

    The Cavs are basically shuffling pieces on their frontline, but got the backcourt shooters they desperately need.

    The trade looks great for the Sonics, but it didn’t take a genius to trade Szerbiak & West for expiring contracts – with all the teams out there needing shooters, you’d think they might have wrung an extra draft pick or worthwhile player out of it.

    Re: the Knicks… probably our best trade deadline in years. I was hoping to see us clear salary or add a pick, but I can’t complain. IT’s biggest problem has been a lack of patience.. there’s no reason to rush a deal now; our bad contracts are only going to get more attractive as they get shorter (see Szerbiak, Wally). I’m fine with waiting for the deadline.

    Now that that’s done, I’m really hoping we’ll see a lot of Morris & Chandler, not to mention Balkman.

  32. jon abbey

    “you guys r so fake that it sickens me. I for one am a true knicks fan who will watch every second of knicks basketball this season no matter how bad they r. I will stick by my team thru good and bad because that’s what a true fan does. Okay so maybe we have a horrible roster and he worst owner and gm but we’ve got a nice core of guys in lee, balkman and Robinson and we most likely will get a good draft pick in this years draft. So stop whining and moaning and pick up ur di*k”

    the whole concept of “real” and “fake” fans amuses me. I don’t think any of us will ever be able to fully break our loyalty to the Knicks, but sports is supposed to be entertainment, it’s supposed to add pleasure to your life, not constant irritation and frustration. when a couple of assholes take over your team and run it into the ground, I’m all for ignoring/boycotting the team until they’re gone. one could even argue that a “REAL FAN” would do that, since it would be for the greater long-term good of the franchise if everyone followed suit.

    also, I like Lee, Balkman and Robinson as much as anyone (except maybe Owen), but as far as young cores go, that’s hardly one to build around. I’d guess that the majority of teams in the league have a better young core, FWIW. we don’t have a Howard or Paul or Deron Williams or Bosh or Roy or Oden or Durant or Amare or Bynum, etc, etc, those are the kind of young guys you can build around. our young guys can be very good complementary players, but in terms of franchise players, we’re worse off than pretty much anyone else in the league.

  33. Chris

    good point jon about the young guys. while most of our 1st, 2nd and 3rd year players are intriguing in their respective ways, none of them are franchise players.

    If we stayed with those guys though then we could just add a superstar player and be a very good ball club. however even still theirs a bunch of teams that are just “1 superstar away”

    all i know is that when we rebuild this team we gotta do it the right way. let the contracts expire, get some guys thru the draft, and then add one or 2 all-star caliber players who Compliment our team and dont simply look good on paper. Isiah originally did add some draft picks but he traded expiring contracts away for young guys who had the potential to be good. these guys never fulfilled their potential and then he just overdid it and started bringing in guys who were stars but just didnt fit with our team.

    I think theirs some truth to what isiah said when he first got here. NYers are impatient and we don’t like to rebuild. but after seeing the catastrophe of the past few years (Layden term included) it seems we’ll need to show some patience and then start from scratch.

  34. Ess-dog

    Everyone knew immediately that the Zach Randolph trade would not work. The media knew it, the fans knew it, Portland knew it, every other team knew it and now, finally, Isiah knows it.
    Last year’s lineup of Steph, Crawford, Jeffries, Lee, Curry would’ve done infinitely better than the mess we have now. Zeke’s borderline destroyed these players’ confidence and he’s only out for himself at this point.
    A firing is the only way to salvage these players.

  35. dave crockett

    Z –

    we are not accepting resignations right now. you know there’s gonna be some craziness that goes down before the season is out, and you’re gonna be mad you missed it. we can’t have that on our conscience :)

    besides, what else are you gonna spend your time on? family? community? your professional endeavors?

    bah.

  36. jon abbey

    something else that we’ve talked about plenty, but that needs to be added near the top of Isiah’s recent sins: this dreadful team still has absolutely no idea what it has in Chandler and Morris, which just amazes me. if Morris signs somewhere next year and becomes a contributor, we need to draw lots to go Weasel hunting.

    someone should draw up the different stages of Knicks fandom, anger, resignation, disgust, nausea, Lee-love. also blind hope: “maybe LeBron will decide he wants to bring the fans of MSG their first title in almost 40 years”. how sad is it when a player on another team wearing a Yankee hat (who isn’t a free agent for another 2+ seasons) is the main reason to be optimistic?

  37. Spider Cider

    I don’t know, Brian, I think Mardy could be the mascot is need be. Surely he has enough talent to don a stupid costume, no?

  38. H22

    Anyone who thinks the Knicks should be trading for, or signing Ron Artest, is a damn fool. Are you kidding me? Artest is a loser and a headcase and a cancer to any sense of cohesion within a team, both on and off the floor.

    No “big name” will save this disgrace of a so-called professional sporting franchise. It’s called cutting your losses and starting afresh people.

    Face it, over the next 3-5 years (thanks in large part to the pathetic and two-faced Isaiah Thomas) the Knicks have no hopes of making any significant, let alone respectable, impact in the league.

    Be realistic. Stop the bullshit. Focus on detaching from the horrific contracts that have tied this franchise down, and on acquiring young talent that can develop in a positive atmosphere.

    In order for that to happen we need a fresh front office and coaching stuff (barring Herb Williams) that can inject a new image and persona and soul into this team.

    Face it, our Knicks suck. They’re a joke. Most of their players are a joke. And no sad-sack loser like Ron “The Rich Thug” Artest will save it from the hell in which it currently dwells.

    After 30 years of being a Knicks fan, I have come to the conclusion that I have NEVER been more disgusted and ashamed of being associated with ANYTHING like I am with the New York Knicks.

    Start fresh. Reboot. Look to the future and do everything within your power to forget the NOW. Because it’s just far too ugly and depressing to think that anything else will do.

  39. matty

    you cant really blame this all on isiah cut the guy alittle rope he came into a bad situation. he made a few moves and has made some mistakes. but he came into this job as a new gm of the new york knicks he tried to bring a big man in here.he already had bad contracts. he tried to continue with the bandaids and patch things up with big contracts. its not his fault q-rich cant shoot anymore and that eddie has no heart how was he supposed to know. the point is he didnt make any bone head moves this year upon trading day. the first step in starting over. he have to admit he hasnt made one drafting error only errors on expecations of names. but with this all said he can stay gm but we need a coach with some fire come on your the coach get on these guys i mean you must tell them the same things over and over and over by now they should get it if not TELL THEM THEY SUCK

  40. Ted Nelson

    “There needs to be some sort of prize for the first NBA fan to adequately explain just what the Bulls think they’re doing. Yeah, they dumped Wallace, but they took on an equally bad contract in the form of Hughes (and isn’t he the homeless man’s Ben Gordon anyway?), and Drew Gooden is not exactly a difference maker; mostly he just keeps Tyrus Thomas riveted to the bench. I have no idea what this trade achieves for them, other than maybe getting Noah some minutes and “shaking things up.” That team needs to be burned down almost as badly as the Knicks do.”

    “but what you’re left with is still a collection of players in search of a team, a plan, a system, etc. When you think about it, that phenomenon of talent-without-a-plan is the common thread among a lot of bad East teams- NY, Milwaukee, Charlotte, ATL, and the Bulls. Maybe Indy as well.

    I can understand needing a player off the team so bad you don’t care what the return is (that’d be how I feel about Curry and Zbo), and you’re right that this does clear some frontcourt space for them; but for this to be a forward move and not a lateral shuffle, I think Chicago needs to make several more changes this summer.”

    Last season the Bulls were considered one of the best young teams in the league: they won 49 games and made the second round of the playoffs. Their young core includes Luol Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Nocioni, two (Knicks’) lottery pick bigmen in Noah and Thomas, and now Gooden. They’re a good defensive team that’s won with this core in the past…

    The Knicks’ core is Curry, Marbury, Randolph, and Crawford… How many playoff wins, or even appearances do those guys have combined?… our core, maybe, should be Lee, Balkman, Robinson, and maybe Chandler… a step up, I would argue, but still not the Bulls’ core.

    As far as this trade, there are several aspects that I think make it work for the Bulls about as much as for the Cavs:

    -As everyone’s mentioned the Wallace/locker room factor. This was a playoff team last season, it seems pretty likely that chemistry, motivation, or whatever you want to call is has been lacking this season. With the same talent last year they were a good team. Will this fix the problem? I don’t know. They seemed to have caused some real problems by not locking up Deng and Gordon over the offseason… I’m interested to see how it plays out.

    -As everyone’s also pointed out the Bulls aren’t going to lose what Wallace brought to the court, they’re going to fill his minutes with Noah, Thomas, etc. And Gooden should

    -Gooden represents a upgrade on the glass vs. Joe Smith and obviously a scoring upgrade over Wallace. Kind of a happy median between the two. He’s also much younger than both. Not going to be an All-Star, but I’d say he’ll be adaquate in a bigman rotation including Noah, Thomas, Nocioni/Deng, maybe Gray and whoever else.

    -I wouldn’t say Hughes is a “homeless man’s” Gordon. Gordon is a lights out shooter with an amazing touch, but 6-3 without PG skills. Hughes is 6-5, capable of playing the point, but can’t shoot particularly well. In some ways they’re opposites.
    As others have pointed out, Hughes has a similar skill set to Sefalosha, but is more refined at this point.

    -I think Hughes could be a decent pick up for them in that he facilitates an offense. The Bulls could use some more scorers, but if you don’t have many scorers I’d say it’s good to have a bunch of good passers.

    The Cavs put some good role players around LeBron, all they really needed to do. For the Bulls, if nothing else, it could prove to be addition by subtraction.

    “something else that we’ve talked about plenty, but that needs to be added near the top of Isiah’s recent sins: this dreadful team still has absolutely no idea what it has in Chandler and Morris, which just amazes me. if Morris signs somewhere next year and becomes a contributor, we need to draw lots to go Weasel hunting.”

    You have a point. However, it’s really the fans who don’t know what we have in Morris and Chandler… the team sees them practice just about everyday.

    Matty: Are you really serious??? I thought that was sarcastic when I started reading, but it really seemed like you were serious by the end.
    Q-Rich had a previous back injury and his back was uninsurable… That’s how you could have known he was an injury risk. How was he supposed to know Curry had no heart? The guy had been in the league 4 years already and had developed that reputation.

  41. mase

    now that the tradeline has passed, i can’t believe not a single team making a playoff push or rebuilding wanted Crawford, Curry, Zach or F. Jones’ (expiring)…really shows you how overvalued they all are to Isiah.

  42. jon abbey

    “it’s really the fans who don’t know what we have in Morris and Chandler… the team sees them practice just about everyday.”

    yeah, I thought of this, but no amount of practice is the same as seeing someone in real game minutes. there’s no substitute for that.

  43. njhoops

    Did you guys see in the paper that Isiaih gave the team the day off from practice today? Makes sense after losing by 40 to a below average team. The guy is so clueless it’s amazing, or maybe he really is trying to get worse.

  44. Billy W.

    Here’s a random trade that I wish had happened:

    http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=1995~254~264~3024~2373~3010~2786~2986~3194~990&teams=18~18~1~18~18~19~19~1~1~19&te=&cash=

    In summary, Orlando gets an excellent backup center for D. Howard in Curry (though his contracts sucks). They get rid of Redick, and get another shooter back that they might like more (Stoudamire) to surround the centers.

    The Hawks need toughness and defense at SF, which Balkman can provide. They get upside in Chandler.

    Childress is in the last year of his contract, atlanta probably won’t him so the knicks get a free look at someone who actually makes a high % of his shots for a change. We also get Redick who is not a bad player. We need a legit 3 pt threat.

    The rest of the bigs and salaries fall into place. There are some expiring contracts as well.

  45. Frank O.

    Is it me or are there a lot of new people bringing up old stuff like, cut isiah rope because he inherited a terrible team, which has actually got worse…or…well, you get my drift.

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