Comments on: Top 25 Favorite Knicks of the Modern Era: #8-7

By: Nick C.

Nick C. — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 11:45:59 +0000

@35 I thought my memory was skewed about Bernard being the best finisher on the break in the game. Thanks.

By: Z

Wed, 29 Dec 2010 07:41:45 +0000

I think “role player” is pretty much defined by usage rate. Low usage players are “role players” and high usage players are “stars”.

By: daJudge

daJudge — Wed, 29 Dec 2010 00:06:52 +0000

hoolahoop: “prolonged his non-playing” Never remember that about Bernard. I kind of thought it was the other way—I remember thinking the Knicks didn’t want Bernard after the ACL. It was a pretty tough injury back then. Not like today. My own perception was that he was pure class, guts and game face and kind of got screwed over by the Knicks. His rehab was not easy. Also, “getting fully compensated”–his contract was guaranteed, right?

Maybe I’m wrong about “B”. Either way, it’s my story and I’m sticking with it! He’s really one of my hoop heroes and I loved his game.

By: hoolahoop

hoolahoop — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 23:42:33 +0000

Bernard was best known for his open floor game. He was an unstoppable slasher – the best the game has ever seen. My memory of him is having the ball on the wing on a break and scoring every single time. He could slash left or right, always with the same outcome. Unstoppable.
However, as a fan, I thought he screwed the knicks in the end.
After his injury, he prolonged his non-playing- except for six games he needed to play in order to collect his full year compensation. Then, after not playing for two seasons and getting fully compensated (big money), he played hardball with the knicks for his new contract, when it was questionable if he was able to come back. Then, he signed somewhere else. I thought it was sleazy move, and as a fan, I realized what he was all about.

By: Z-man

Z-man — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 22:37:25 +0000

I did some searches and it seems like Fields is a hard player to find matches for. What throws things out of whack is his rebounding. To put things into perspective, his rebounds per 26 are the same as Oscar Robertson’s as a rookie. Fields is listed as a F in B-R, so searches become complicated. Three contemporary names that seemed to pop up a lot were Wally Szczerbiak, Andre Iguodala and Richard Jefferson. Here’s a comparison of their stats up to age 22:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=iguodan01&y1=2006&p2=szczewa02&y2=2000&p3=jefferi01&y3=2003&p4=fieldla01&y4=2011

By: daJudge

daJudge — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:57:07 +0000

The fact that we’re having this discussion is awesome. Not sure about tonight’s game though. I’ve got the yips.

By: Z-man

Z-man — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 21:35:16 +0000

Tough to compare across eras, but having seen all three play, I think Fields is more like Hondo than like Ginobili. All three are F/G hybrids, but Manu leans more towards SG (better ball skills) and Landry/Hondo are more towards SF (more physical, better rebounders.) Still, I love the comparison, especially in that Ginobili and Fields were both passed over until well into the 2nd round.

I wonder if Treutlein would classify Ginobili as a “great role player…”

By: tastycakes

tastycakes — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 20:35:01 +0000

Here’s a fun comparison – Ginobili’s rookie year (at age 25) vs Fields’ thus far:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=ginobma01&y1=2003&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

And too young to know Havlicek’s game, I ran his rookie season vs Landry’s:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=havlijo01&y1=1963&p2=fieldla01&y2=2011

Obviously stats are missing, but it’s clear it’s the “rebounding guard” thing that has people seeing Hondo. Except that Fields is much more efficient (at much lower usage).

Worst case, he’s a very good role player (which he is today). Best case .. I’ve got to stop, I have stars in my eyes….

By: Z-man

Z-man — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:33:23 +0000

Excellent points, ess.

By: ess-dog

ess-dog — Tue, 28 Dec 2010 18:12:24 +0000

It’s funny because they primarily credit his move from a 1st scoring option to a 5th scoring option as the reason behind his success, but his win shares coming out of college were at the top of his class (something that Cock Jowles alerted us to during the draft.) And he led the Pac-10 in scoring and was at the top in rebounding. He was clearly good in that role as well (actually, maybe it wasn’t clear!)
Maybe he can’t carry a team on his back, but can anyone really? Could Kobe before Gasol joined him? As has been discussed ad nauseum, even MJ needed help.
I think he’s just a good basketball player. I agree that a role player should be defined as a guy that does his “role” like shoot threes (Kapono) or block shots (Ibaka) but I think they meant “glue player” as in an all-around good player that does the dirty work that “stars” can’t be asked to do. Fields is definitely that but real stars do everything as well, think Wade, Lebron or Kobe. The only difference is that those guys are also volume shooters and crunch time scorers.
There’s no proof that Fields can’t do that yet, as he hasn’t been asked to.