Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, July 31, 2014

This Doesn’t Deserve It’s Own Post

This doesn’t deserve it’s own post, at least until some other news sources start to confirm this (and by confirm this I mean not just read the article and believe it to be true). Now I know my readers will talk about this on that article if I don’t, so might as well create a space to discuss the following:

According to SI.com, the Knicks rejected an offer from the Clippers to trade Zach Randolph solely for cap space.

The Knicks have rejected a proposal from the Clippers to trade power forward Zach Randolph, league sources told SI.com.

Terms of any proposal were not known, but the Clippers have enough salary-cap space to accept Randolph’s contract without having to give the Knicks equal salaries in return. The Clippers, seeking to replace the departed Elton Brand, were trying to take Randolph off the Knicks’ hands while offering little more than cap relief to New York, the sources said. Randolph will make $14.7 million next season, and he has three years and $48 million left on his contract.

It’s unknown what was offered, and the article says that Los Angeles is under the cap so the salaries don’t have to match. It’s also unknown how true this article is, since at the current time this is the only news organization reporting this.

But let’s assume that it is true for argument’s sake. You have to hope that Donnie Walsh knows what he’s doing here. Because getting rid of Randolph fits in perfectly with his plan of getting under the cap by 2010, and many Knick fans would love to see what David Lee could do as the full time starter. Maybe Walsh is playing chicken where he’s hoping the Clippers will throw in a draft pick. Maybe Walsh is playing poker and he has had similar offers from around the league and is surveying the field. Or maybe Walsh figures Randolph’s value will be higher near the trading deadline with a D’Antoni offense increase in offensive per-game stats. Maybe Walsh said “yes” but his cell phone cut out like in those commercials where the person on the other end thinks they offended the person they called.

On the other hand if you’re seeing the cup half empty at this point, you’re wondering if Walsh has lost his mind. Because those are the only plausible reasons for Walsh not saying “Hmmm lemme think about that for a – YES I’LL DO IT! Ahem – I mean yes, that’ll do.” Randolph is not needed on this team. He wasn’t needed last year when the Isiah acquired him for basically nothing. He doesn’t give the Knicks anything they need (shooting – check, rebounding – check, poor defense – check, man breasts – Curry still on this team? – then check).

The other day I was walking to work I saw a dollar bill ripped in half in a puddle floating in a puddle. I thought for a split second, and figured reaching into that muck for a dollar that I would have to dry then tape together wasn’t worth it. (And no dear readers, yours truly isn’t rich enough to walk past money. I will pick up a coin if I see it. At least one that isn’t in muck). I’m sure the person that picked up that Washington thought it was a fortunate event that they were able to have their choice from McDonalds $1 menu. Right now the Clippers are that person, and Zach Randolph is that dollar.

106 comments on “This Doesn’t Deserve It’s Own Post

  1. TDM

    One positive thing can come out of this event, assuming it to be true . . . the entire league is going to know immediately that the Isiah Thomas era of the Knicks is officially dead. The Walsh Knick era has begun – where wild spending in spite of the cap was the norm of the past, now logical, cap-friendly moves are being turned down.

  2. Vmart

    If Walsh passed up a deal for Zach then he must have a very good reason. I can’t see any team trading a 20-10 player just for cap space. Even though Zach has little value to the Knicks he holds value to other teams in need of a power forward. Walsh must want something in return for Zach possibly, Jordan and Eric Gordon or some first and second round future picks.

  3. jon abbey

    “where wild spending in spite of the cap was the norm of the past, now logical, cap-friendly moves are being turned down.”

    what’s the difference? if Walsh had accepted the deal, you’d have a point here.

  4. danvt

    “I’m sure the person that picked up that Washington thought it was a fortunate event that they were able to have their choice from McDonalds $1 menu. Right now the Clippers are that person, and Zach Randolph is that dollar.”

    Dude, That’s a great metaphor for any writer much less a sports writer.
    Nice post.

    “If Walsh passed up a deal for Zach then he must have a very good reason. I can’t see any team trading a 20-10 player just for cap space. Even though Zach has little value to the Knicks he holds value to other teams in need of a power forward. Walsh must want something in return for Zach possibly, Jordan and Eric Gordon or some first and second round future picks.”

    I’m with that. Maybe they feel they should get more. Would the credibility of the franchise suffer if teams around the league know we’re giving stuff away for free.

    Could D’Antoni and Walsh like Zach?

  5. TDM

    “what’s the difference? if Walsh had accepted the deal, you’d have a point here.”

    To me, they are far opposite sides of the spectrum. Isiah would accept any lopsided deal no matter how it affected the cap situation, while Walsh is potentially turning down a boondoggle deal for the Knicks that would help the cap situation.

  6. Vmart

    “I’m sure the person that picked up that Washington thought it was a fortunate event that they were able to have their choice from McDonalds $1 menu. Right now the Clippers are that person, and Zach Randolph is that dollar.”
    Dude, That’s a great metaphor for any writer much less a sports writer.Nice post.
    “If Walsh passed up a deal for Zach then he must have a very good reason. I can’t see any team trading a 20-10 player just for cap space. Even though Zach has little value to the Knicks he holds value to other teams in need of a power forward. Walsh must want something in return for Zach possibly, Jordan and Eric Gordon or some first and second round future picks.”
    I’m with that. Maybe they feel they should get more. Would the credibility of the franchise suffer if teams around the league know we’re giving stuff away for free.
    Could D’Antoni and Walsh like Zach?

    Knicks fan always tend to undervalue a good player and overvalue the not so good players. They put more value to david Lee than they do to Zach and Zach is so much better than Lee. To just give away Zach is moronic got to get a couple of picks out of Clippers.

    D’Antoni and Walsh, might not be the biggest fans of Randolp thats why they want to move him, not just for the first team to come along and offer cap space in return for a 20-10 player. Got to get something in return.

  7. Jose B

    I wouldn’t let ZBo go for nothing when I could get something…I have to believe that this is the case because Walsh has made it clear that cap space is the #1 priority as far as the Knicks rebuilding process goes. Maybe he is trying to snag a 2009 or 2010 first rounder, which will surely be lottery picks. Let’s remember that is far as terrible NBA GMs go, Elgin Baylor is without a doubt in the discussion for worst overall. His lottery pick exploits include taking Olowokandi #!, Darius Miles #3, and spending mid-lottery picks on guys like Melvin Ely, Yaroslav Korolev. As a talent evaluator, let’s just say his judgment is somewhat impaired.

  8. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    I doubt that, SI still has some journalistic standards.

    I assume they’re as reliable as say, ESPN.com, where Messrs. Stein, Ford, et al. are allowed to print the chatter they hear. Remember Ford’s “D’Antoni doesn’t like Gallinari” line about a week or so before the draft?

    I think it’s just as likely that the “source” is Walsh (or one of his subordinates), trying to create the impression that there’s a market for Randolph. If you let a “reputable” institution like SI print/write that the Knicks TURNED DOWN the Clips offer, perhaps other GM’s will start thinking – “Hm, maybe the Knicks have better offers out there. Maybe we should look into Z-Bo”.

  9. Brendan

    The dollar metaphor really is well-said.

    Assuming this rumor is true, which is a giant assumption, two things occur to me: first, that it’s relatively analogous to the Nets’ reported turning down of a VC to Cleveland for cap space deal, so this sort of non-move has a recent parallel. Both Zbo and VC are at very low ebb of their apparent market value, which I suspect was probably the motivating reason for standing pat on them. The chances of either seeing out his current contract with his current team are probably still small.

    Second though, is that this is potentially the equivalent of going all in on a pair of queens with an ace and a flush draw on the board- Walsh may be talking himself into being stuck with something that plays less well than it looks, and is about to cost him a lot of money. I hope he’s judging the Zbo market well, is all I’ll say.

  10. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    I personally of course would trade Z-Bo for a plate of warm guacamole – esp. considering the plate of guacamole would defend the post almost as well as Randolph

  11. Z

    “This doesn’t deserve it’s own post, at least until some other news sources start to confirm this.”

    It must be on the AP wire too because I heard it reported not long ago on the radio (here in LA). It was the exact same report, though, so they may have just been reading the SI piece…

  12. Z

    Walsh strikes me as a straight shooter. Not a Machiavellian schemer trying to trick teams out of 2nd round picks…

  13. Latke

    The knicks didn’t really give anything up for randolph… Really the blazers received less than what the knicks would conceivably get. The blazers had to buy out Steve Francis’s huge contract. Yes, they picked up Channing Frye, but at that point no knicks fan was particularly upset about the loss of Frye. So the knicks took Randolph (who was a year younger and whose reputation since then has only gotten worse) and the blazers had to pay francis something near 20 million dollars. Even if we say Frye is worth $10 million of that 20 million (he’s not), the Blazer’s then paid 10 million dollars to get randolph off of their team. In this situation the knicks ditch randolph for free. I think it’s a no brainer.

    And honestly, I think Randolph could help the clippers. The problem in New York (as has been discussed to death) is that Curry and Randolph’s strengths and weaknesses overlap far too much. Kaman does not need the ball to be effective.

  14. brian quinnett's left nipple

    i’m inclined to believe that the present regime is smart enough to know when and how to dump randolph if given the chance, which makes me think that there would be more to this story than what’s printed, if it’s even true.

    now if this were the past regime, then i’d believe every single word.

  15. foliveri

    It would be nice if they made that deal.
    Maybe the Clips wanted the Knicks to pay at least some of his salary…
    Can that be done in the NBA as it is done in MLB?

  16. daaarn

    i’m thinking this is just gossip. on the other hand, if it isn’t, then i have enough faith in walsh to believe that he has some ulterior motives and it’s not b/c he’s gone senile

  17. pete

    If this is true, then Walsh is trying too hard. He needs to keep it simple. If the top priority is to clear salary, then clear salary. It could work to our advantage to up his trade value, but this trade of no damaging contracts is already above what we thought Z-Bo’s value was around the league. It could work, but it it really worth the gamble? Even if he averages 23 and 10, how much better could the offer possibly be in February?

    And if he isn’t averaging 23-10, or if he gets arrested at a strip club, or if he whines too much to D’Antoni, or if people are reminded that he is a pathetic defender and passer, or if his knee goes out again, or if his career is simply on a downward trajectory, then we are stuck with him for three more years and will have to take back Mark Blount or Marco Jaric to get rid of him.

    The risk, in this case, does is not proportionally outweighed by the reward. When that is the case, you are being foolish. This really seems like something Zeke would have done.

  18. jon abbey

    I think Walsh may be underestimating the huge jolt of adrenaline and relief that dumping Randolph would give the Knicks’ fan base, among other things. if Z-Bo opens the season in NY, this is a mistake, and probably a major one.

  19. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Funny thing is – what if this is a rumor that Walsh put out there to get people to bite on Randolph? And here we come along going nuts that he didn’t jump on the deal to get nothing for Randolph. You think any team’s GM reading this blog (I know very highly unlikely) is going to say “Knick fans hate this guy enough to give him away for nothing – Oh well I was going to trade for him” and Randolph’s value drops (even moreso).

  20. Captain Merlin

    Should the Prime Minister of Pudding, Z-bo, remain on the roster into the regular season, I’d have to assume that this was merely gossip. Walsh seems like he’d be smart enough to jump on this offer were it the best he knew he could get. That being said, I expect and desperately hope the market for him is as generous as that supposed offer.

  21. Z

    “what if this is a rumor that Walsh put out there to get people to bite on Randolph?”

    You mean like starting a bidding war between the Clips and the Warriors for the services of Z-Bo? That is getting into David Falk territory. I don’t think that is how Walsh works…

  22. Z

    Maybe Walsh is angling for a bigger package. Like say Randolph and Crawford for Fugazi, Mobley, and Eric Gordon. If Clips consider themselves a win-now team, why wait for Gordon to develop into Jamal Crawford when they can have him now.

    Here’s to dreaming…

  23. TDM

    If the Knicks are looking for an outside shooter for a small deal, Redick is most likely going to be waived by ORL. The guy could be a good role player off the bench for D’Antoni’s offense.

  24. TDM

    Regarding a proposed deal with the Clippers, wasn’t Mike Dunleavy the coach of the Trailblazers when they drafted Z-bo?

  25. Mulligan

    I wonder if this is just a taste of things to come. I mean, I’d be fine with this deal, but if it nets us anything in return (2010 draft pick? Even DeAndre Jordan), I’d be pumped. Also, looking at Zbo’s contract, it becomes clearer that this is the year to move him. 14.6 this year, then 16 and then 17 in the next 2 years. If we’re having trouble finding takers now, imagine how hellacious it’ll be next year.

    J-Rich was traded straight up for Brendan Wright, but his stock was high and Jordan’s decision making skills are questionable. I think we could get better than nothing, although nothing would be nice enough.

  26. bud

    trading randolph for only cap space right now is not the right move. his value can only increase during the course of the season, possibly through great play on his part, but if not that, at least through the dollar value remaining on his contract decreasing over time. yes, cap space for the free agent gang bang of summer 2010 is desirable, but 1) the knicks have almost two years until that point, and 2) we don’t necessarily need the full amount of randolph’s deal off the cap to sign the free agents we want, and 3) there are other players on our team that can be moved during this time frame, not just zach randolph. trading randolph when his value is higher is the right move because it can not only get us a potential future draft pick, but possibly also a player in return with a lower salary who is young and could develop down the road. i know 97% of users on this site cream over guys like renaldo balkman and wilson chandler, so please excuse me for thinking those gentlemen aren’t the foundation for a title contending ballclub. assets generally have more value at the trade deadline than during the offseason, and i think this will hold true for randolph, who is still young and adept at playing his game, a game that can help teams in this league.

    yes we need to move this guy who is useless for are team, but not for nothing.

    ps randolph’s value could theoretically get lower – ie instead of mere cap space it could fall to the level of other bad contracts, but there is no reasonable indication whatsoever that his game will totally tank ala larry hughes, and he has not reached an advanced age of decrepitude like ben wallace or wally szczerbiak.

    knicks management is making the right call here.

  27. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Maybe Walsh is angling for a bigger package. Like say Randolph and Crawford for Fugazi, Mobley, and Eric Gordon. If Clips consider themselves a win-now team, why wait for Gordon to develop into Jamal Crawford when they can have him now.

    Here’s to dreaming…

    Walsh has always spoken highly of Crawford, so I wouldn’t bet on a Jamal trade. Of course maybe Walsh is smart enough to tout the guys he doesn’t like & wants to move.

  28. caleb

    The rumor could be basically false — 2nd or 3rd hand information from a mid-level source who doesn’t really know.

    If it’s true — it could easily be the first step in a negotiation.

    The good news is — unless the writer made it up out of thin air, the rumor almost certainly started with the Knicks. Who would start a rumor about their team trying to do something and being shot down?

    Possible reasons (multiple reasons could be true)
    - they want to induce a better offer from the Clippers (even if it’s something like throwing in Nick Fazekas and another 2nd round pick, something of that ilk)
    - they want to drum up interest around the league. Get competing offers.
    - they want to be able to tell Randolph — hey, we don’t hate you — look, we’re turning down trade offers for you. (you don’t tell a guy he’s unwanted until he’s gone)

    In likelihood… whether or not the Clippers offer was actually made… someone from the Knicks office planted the story, with all 3 of those reasons in mind.

  29. D

    the team would look so much better on paper without Z-bos contract. Not only would it put the team in position to offer a max contract in 2010, it would put the team in an excelent position to jump into the free agent market in 2009 when kobe, marion, bibby, and boozer could be free agents…

    all they would have to do is trade crawford (who actually has trade value) and curry (ok, he is a little tougher to move)

    I think if they add one of those players next year then it would be much more likely that lebron or another top free agent would come in 2010.

    If the knicks did this deal they could be 2 trades (only one difficult) away from being under the cap enough to offer near max deals 2 years in a row.

    I would like to do a trade that gets us back first round draft picks- knicks should offer to take back tim thomas’s contract and a first rounder for zach

  30. Ess-dog

    I like what Walsh is doing – driving up the price. There’s still plenty of time before the season starts. If he can make this trade, but also have Jordan or Fazekas included, I would go for it. If you can clear out that contract AND get someone to take minutes away from Curry, you are a master in my book. Is it killing anyone else to see these early reports of Westbrook? He looks like he’s already bulked up… I think he’s going to be a good pro…

  31. Thomas B.

    I dont think the Clippers should chase Randolph, but as I said before, the Clips personnel decisions make no sense.

  32. Thomas B.

    “I’m sure the person that picked up that Washington thought it was a fortunate event that they were able to have their choice from McDonalds $1 menu.”

    They still need another dime for tax before they can enjoy 4 nuggets, or a doublecheeseburger.

    Btw, I dont know about you people but a 99 cent burger scares me. You get what you pay for. Have you guys ever heard of Checkers? You can get two double cheeseburgers for something like 48 cents (tax included). The frugal part of me just wants to buy it. The sensible part of me (very small part of me btw) wants to run out the door.

    “That can’t possibly be beef” The sensible part screams.

    So I ask the cashier, “Is this 100% beef?”

    The cashier says “Of course.”

    “See, sensible side. 100% beef. What is there to worry about?” I say.

    But the sensible side of me isnt done yet.

    “Technically, any meat from a cow can be called beef.” Says sensible. “For all you know, that patty is processed bull testicle on a bun.”

    “……” I’m speechless.

    “Or it could be even worse than that.” Says sensible.

    “Okay sensible side, you win. I’ll just pony up 4 bucks for the grilled chicken. Chickens dont have testicles do they?” I say.

    “I think they do, but I’m pretty sure they are dark meat, and this is an all white meat chicken patty. Enjoy.” Sensible says.

    What does this have to do with Zach to the Clippers? Okay, let me put this bong down and explain. In sales you usually need to find a balance between price and quality of the product. If drop the price too low, people will think something is wrong with the product. “Why is it so cheap?” they ask. They assume something is wrong with the product and decided to shop elsewhere. If word got around that Walsh considered putting Zach on the dollar menu, GM would never offer anything more than a dollar. By rejecting a dollar menu offer from the Clips, Walsh is saying that my product is of better quality than you may think. I am not interested in selling for such a low price. Other GM’s hear that and say, “Hey, maybe Randolph is a valuable piece. Maybe if I offer 2 dollars, I could get him.” Another Gm offers three dollars. Before you know it, Randolph is that Grilled chicken sandwich.

  33. cavjam

    First, I can’t believe how many here are eager to give up on the coming season. Second, making plans dependent on an innately nebulous scenario fraught with myriad variables is foolish in the extreme; freeing cap space for a supposed free agent bonanza two years hence is beyond that. I don’t know any decent player who doesn’t always seriously think his team will win it all. Is it so unrealistic to expect fans to feel the same? This is the only attitude which allows winning.

    As for the Randolph dump – the guy works hard to get his stats but that seems the extent of his vision. It’s best for the team to be rid of such a player. Unenlightened self-centeredness is toxic to team play. The Knicks, however, are in a position of strength vis a vis the Clips. The Clips need Randolph; the Knicks, though better off w/o him, don’t need to get rid of him. I’d have been surprised if Walsh had done anything but turn down the first offer.

    I must admit, though, if he stays it’ll be interesting to see which collapses first in the D’Antoni system – Randolph’s desire to get downcourt on offense or Randolph himself.

  34. Peter

    “Before you know it, Randolph is that Grilled chicken sandwich.”

    LOL great post, Thomas B. I nominate you for a Nobel prize in economics.

  35. Riise

    “First, I can’t believe how many here are eager to give up on the coming season. Second, making plans dependent on an innately nebulous scenario fraught with myriad variables is foolish in the extreme; freeing cap space for a supposed free agent bonanza two years hence is beyond that. I don’t know any decent player who doesn’t always seriously think his team will win it all. Is it so unrealistic to expect fans to feel the same? This is the only attitude which allows winning.”

    Cavjam, that’s the exact attitude that got us in the hole we’re in now. We can win now! Just add one more quality player! You need to build in this league, and the only reason I, and other people, have accepted losing next year is because it will allow us to ACTUALLY be a title contender in three, instead of just hoping and dreaming for it and ending up with 34 wins. I can’t believe how insanely shortsighted you are. Name one team that didn’t build before it won. Heat and Celtics had huge trades help them, but could only make those trade because of all the assets they had stockpiled in their rebuilding years. Spurs had Duncan fall into their laps, but prolonged their run by building young talent (Parker, Ginobili, etc.).

    At the moment, the Knicks have few, if any, championship-level assets. Players don’t become superstars over night, and so the only way we can ever expect to win a title is to build for a few years, stockpile assets and then go from there. Whether or not we get LeBron/Wade/Bosh, clearing cap space and getting young, inexpensive players in the plan for now, and the only plan that will lead to a Knicks title.

  36. Dave

    I’m joining the pile of confused spectators. I don’t understand this.

    Just to think on it for a second. The worst possible deal LA can offer is Cuttino and Timmy T right? I don’t think they’d have the brass to demand picks or sweetners on top of that. They’d be laughed out of the building. So let’s assume the worst offer is those two for Zach. Why in the world do you not make that?

    Is Zach the big man that’s going to be kept? Because he can’t play alongside Eddy and he didn’t play all that well alongside Lee. Whatever about next season, Zach certainly can’t start alongside Lee on a contending team right?

    Do you think you’re going to get a better offer? Okay let’s think about that.

    Maybe Donnie wants some draft picks. Well the Clippers lost the exact same number of games as the Knicks last year. It’s not like we’re Memphis trading with a Lakers team that’s a lock for one of the five best records in the league for the next 5 years. It’s a poor team trying to jiggle stuff around. They aren’t giving up first round picks. They have no certainty of where they’re going to be. Zach isn’t good enough for that risk.

    Maybe it’s young talent?

    Eric Gordon and Al Thornton are a huge part of their future. They’re both good prospects with big potential as scorers in this league. Clippers aren’t giving up either one of them for Zach Randolph.

    Maybe lesser young talent?

    DeAndre Jordan. I’m all for that. Include him in the trade. I’m sure the Clippers won’t like it but I find it hard to believe the Clippers would hold up getting Zach Randolph for Cuttino/Thomas over their 2nd round pick who is a high risk player. That can’t be happening. Ditto for Mike Taylor. The Clippers would accept Donnie’s demands and make the deal. Unless there’s some freakish admiration of Jordan which there’s been no signs of from the Clippers so no that’s not happening.

    So what can they give that Donnie wants? There’s nothing else. The Clippers are bone dry.

    Donnie can’t think they’d give up their cap space straight for Zach can he?

    That removes the virtue of acquiring Zach from the Clippers perspective. Adding Zach to that team without anyone else just puts them in that 35-43 win bracket with no hopes of winning a playoff series in the West. No hopes for major roster improvements either.

    Where’s Donnie going to create this cap space for 2010?
    Where can he get a better offer for Zach Randolph?
    What does a better offer even look like?
    Does he think Zach and Eddy can play together?

    I’m confused.

    What’s Donnie thinking?

  37. jon abbey

    “So what can they give that Donnie wants? There’s nothing else. ”

    it could be a protected first round pick, or LA might just not be willing to give up anything in return for Randolph. I would have probably jumped at this if I were Walsh, but maybe he figures LA doesn’t have any better options and will decide to give up something of value as the summer progresses. that’s a very dangerous game to play, though, IMO.

  38. Anthony

    Two points- The Clips had that record with last years team, without Elton Brand all year. So they would be removing Magette, but adding Baron Davis and Zach Randolph. Much better squad. Maybe not a playoff squad, but much better.

    Second, Kevin Prichard has done an amazing job with that roster, and he gave away Zach Randolp for much less than cap space– he ate a huge contract, and a cancer, just to get this guy off the team. If these reports are true, you have to be excited that he either has higher value out there for Randolph, or knows his value will be higher in February.

  39. jon abbey

    “If these reports are true, you have to be excited that he either has higher value out there for Randolph, or knows his value will be higher in February.”

    or is making a huge mistake.

  40. Z

    I was hoping to wake up and find that SI report was just a bad dream…

    “maybe he figures LA doesn’t have any better options and will decide to give up something of value as the summer progresses. that’s a very dangerous game to play, though”

    Very dangerous. Why let the Clips turn their attention to Marion? Dunleavy wants to run without Brand. Miami could get a big trade exception, maybe a pick or two. Marion is better. Clip fans would be happier with Marion than Randolph. Don’t play with fire. Take the salary dump, buy out Marbury, and pretend last season never even happened…

  41. T-Mart

    “I’m sure the person that picked up that Washington thought it was a fortunate event that they were able to have their choice from McDonalds $1 menu.”
    They still need another dime for tax before they can enjoy 4 nuggets, or a doublecheeseburger.
    Btw, I dont know about you people but a 99 cent burger scares me. You get what you pay for. Have you guys ever heard of Checkers? You can get two double cheeseburgers for something like 48 cents (tax included). The frugal part of me just wants to buy it. The sensible part of me (very small part of me btw) wants to run out the door.
    “That can’t possibly be beef” The sensible part screams.
    So I ask the cashier, “Is this 100% beef?”
    The cashier says “Of course.”
    “See, sensible side. 100% beef. What is there to worry about?” I say.
    But the sensible side of me isnt done yet.
    “Technically, any meat from a cow can be called beef.” Says sensible. “For all you know, that patty is processed bull testicle on a bun.”
    “……” I’m speechless.
    “Or it could be even worse than that.” Says sensible.
    “Okay sensible side, you win. I’ll just pony up 4 bucks for the grilled chicken. Chickens dont have testicles do they?” I say.
    “I think they do, but I’m pretty sure they are dark meat, and this is an all white meat chicken patty. Enjoy.” Sensible says.
    What does this have to do with Zach to the Clippers? Okay, let me put this bong down and explain. In sales you usually need to find a balance between price and quality of the product. If drop the price too low, people will think something is wrong with the product. “Why is it so cheap?” they ask. They assume something is wrong with the product and decided to shop elsewhere. If word got around that Walsh considered putting Zach on the dollar menu, GM would never offer anything more than a dollar. By rejecting a dollar menu offer from the Clips, Walsh is saying that my product is of better quality than you may think. I am not interested in selling for such a low price. Other GM’s hear that and say, “Hey, maybe Randolph is a valuable piece. Maybe if I offer 2 dollars, I could get him.” Another Gm offers three dollars. Before you know it, Randolph is that Grilled chicken sandwich.

    Thomas B, I like your idea here, but doesn’t it rely a little too heavily on an assumption that NBA GM’s are working on a herd mentality with Dereck Zoolanderish inteligence. The McDonalds Cheeseburger is made out of mystery meat, just like all fastfood meat. I agree that it is possible to psych yourself out with the frugal v. sensible side waiting on line, I have done this at Taco Bell many times. The problem however, is that Zach Randloph is decidely NOT mystery meat, and everyone knows it, including NBA GMs. I don’t see any GMs getting fooled by this double-cheeseburger model of used car sale, Zach Randloph is a loser, the writing is on the wall in Font size 2383928992323. Perhaps I am giving NBA GMs too much credit, I hope I am.

  42. cavjam

    [T]hat’s the exact attitude that got us in the hole we’re in now. We can win now! Just add one more quality player!

    Nonsense. And nonsense revealed by the rest of your post. It was injudiciousness that got the Knicks in the cesspool. (Who the hell pays Jerome James more than minimum wage?) It was “We can win now” that got the Celts where they are; that and an uncommonly accommodating ex-Celt.

    At the moment, the Knicks have few, if any, championship-level assets.

    Ever see a team outperform the sum of its assets? Ever see a young player blossom in a season, or any player do the same under a different coach’s sway and system? Who’da thunk Carlisle could in one year literally turn around the record of a 32-50 Piston team, one without a single “championship-level asset” (whatever that means)?

    I expect Balkman and Jeffries to improve their scoring (ludicrous idea, I know) in a run and lay-up offense; I imagine Craw and N8 will do better as well, but no one’s gonna make them smarter. Curry doesn’t fit, but preseason musical chairs ain’t over (I wonder if Morway’s dumb enough to swap Hibbert for Curry). Randolph appears to be as good as gone. Lee will continue to get tip-ins (he really does play better w/o Randolph). Can he develop an accurate three-foot finger roll/baby hook? I don’t know, but it’d really help his game. Duhon should be fine if unspectacular. Chandler seems solid, can probably play in any system. Even Collins I haven’t given up on (man, is that pie-eyed). Also, if by miracle the Knicks shed Craw, N8 and the two big blobs, they’d be a pretty good defensive squad if they learn to play together and trust each other.

    I know it’s a deep hole Isiah dug, but with perseverance sunlight may yet be glimpsed again, and soon; and giving up on the ’08 Knicks will not help any of the younger players. For a GM, coach, player, or a fan, it’s also just plain wrong.

  43. Dave

    Let’s say the Clippers with Baron and they acquire Zach Randolph. True, that is a better team than last year. Let’s say they win 16 more games than last season. That’s still under .500 and that’s definitely a lottery team in the West. Also worth pointing out they’ve renounced about 6 of their players and have zero depth after the Zach Randolph trade.

    Clippers face a lot of uncertainty going forward. Zach Randolph only makes sense if they can acquire another top level player with their cap space which isn’t again is not a certainty. Even if they get that player they’re still not a lock for the playoffs. Again a lack of certainty. Even if everything does work out … and the Clippers do make the playoffs there’s a good chance they’ll be a low seed out West, lose in the first round, and that their first rounder will be in the 18-22 range which has considerable value and is worth holding onto …. and that they’ll have zero cap space to develop their team further and their only assets to help them do that will be their draft picks.

    Zach’s a good player who can help a team in the right situation. He isn’t a franchise changing player. His lack of defense and self-involved offensive game denies him from being that.

  44. Mark N.

    “So what can they give that Donnie wants? There’s nothing else. ”
    it could be a protected first round pick, or LA might just not be willing to give up anything in return for Randolph. I would have probably jumped at this if I were Walsh, but maybe he figures LA doesn’t have any better options and will decide to give up something of value as the summer progresses. that’s a very dangerous game to play, though, IMO.

    Walsh probably figures the Clippers were giving a low ball offer, and he’s probably right about that. Getting a draft pick in return would be nice. The Clipper’s pick could be worth a lot. I also think he may have in mind that Curry ended the season with an injury and hasn’t played since. Maybe he also wants to be sure Curry is the same old Curry this year before giving Zach away for almost nothing.

  45. Z

    Gordon scored 23 pts on 5-18 shooting last night in Vegas. Looks like he may be on the fast track to Crawfordom.

  46. Riise

    Cavjam,

    “It was “We can win now” that got the Celts where they are; that and an uncommonly accommodating ex-Celt.”

    No, it was having talented young players like Al Jefferson (better asset than anyone we have) and others so that they could pull off the trade for KG (and yes, with a little help from Isiah). We don’t have anyone that good.

    “Ever see a team outperform the sum of its assets?”

    Er, not really winning a title. I’m sure you’ve heard this many times, but superstars win championships, with very rare exceptions (Pistons, Sonics, Warriors). Think of the last 20-25 years…KG, Duncan, Shaq, Wade, Kobe, Jordan, Hakeem, Magic, Kareem, Bird, Dr. J. These guys win 95% of the rings. And even when a team without a true superstar wins, their players are WAY better than ours. Take the ’04 Pistons. Billups, Prince, Wallaces, and Rip. I’d say the only players on our roster who have even an outside chance to be that good are Lee (very outside shot, as much as I love him), Gallinari, and MAYBE MAYBE MAYBE Nate and Jamal. I’m sorry, but the rest simply will never be that good. And the chances of those four getting that good are slim.

    You don’t become good through sheer willpower, Cavjam. You get good by getting top players, complementary players, and putting them in a good system. We have some guys who can be complementary players on championship teams, but no one who can lead a championship team. So, we rebuild. Get one of those players through three possbilities: high draft pick, free agency, or trading stockpiled assets. That’s the only way we’re going to win a championship, and I’ll take that plan over your “Let’s hope Jared Jeffries becomes an offensive force through sheer force of will!”, Green Lantern-esque plan for the New York Knicks.

  47. TDM

    Eric Gordon? Not very likely that will happen. The funny thing is imagine the bait-and-switch that would be for Baron. BD thought he’d be playing with all-star Elton Brand and promising rookie Gordon, only to find out that they are gone, but Z-bo is there. He’d have to be waiting for Rod Serling to come walking out of the shadows . . .

  48. Maverick

    To me the question is not why this has happened the way it was reported, but rather why was this even leaked? and who leaked it?
    we have 2 options, let’s analyze them, shall we?
    - Knicks leaked the story: What do they gain?
    1 – Walsh wants other GM’s to know that there is no fire sale in MSG and you better come up with good trade ideas.
    2 – Walsh is looking to put pressure on the Clippers to raise their offer.
    3 – Walsh may have another offer and is letting them know that they better jump in soon.
    These are the ones that make sense to me. Granted, I may have missed other reasons, but all the ones listed are positive for the knicks. What I get from it is there is a market for Zbo, he is just trying to get a better deal.
    - Clippers leaked the story, What do they gain?
    1 – They know Zbo is not popular with the Knicks fans and they are trying to put pressure on Walsh to cave, and they are counting on gullible knick fans to provide that pressure.
    2 – If Walsh was playing them against another team, they are making their position public to stop the bidding.
    3 – They are trying to gage their own fans reaction, adding Zbo is going for it, not rebuilding.
    Again, I may have missed otheres, but these are the ones obvious to me.
    This proves that there is a market for Zbo and they are trying to get him on the cheap.
    Some Knick fans are hollering for exactly that, “let’s help the other team, screw our own. We have the worst players and worst organization.”
    I am not sure what Zbo is worth but one thing is for sure, this is the worst time to trade him.
    For some reason, these same fans were all for overpaying for other teams assets but other teams are ok to underpay for our own.
    Be honest, how many of you thought the curry trade was a good, or the Zbo trade was a great trade last year?
    We are all blaming Isiah, but we have to share some of the blame.
    My 2 cents.

  49. Captain Merlin

    At the time, I thought the Curry trade was horrible, to be perfectly honest–an opinion that has easily withstood the test of time

    As for the Zbo trade, I was actually somewhat excited when I first heard about it during that draft. Considering what we gave up–An aging overpriced rancid point and an at times promising, though inconsistent youngin in Frye–acquiring an overpaid pudding slurper who had yet to exhaust all hope did not seem too horrible…At the time.

  50. jon abbey

    “I am not sure what Zbo is worth but one thing is for sure, this is the worst time to trade him.”

    how can you possibly know this? what if he takes a swing at D’Antoni during training camp? we’ll be stuck with his contract for the duration. obviously his value is very low right now, but that doesn’t mean it can’t stay there, or get any lower.

  51. bud

    there’s a very low chance randolph’s value will dip lower. he’d have to play like larry hughes, or as “jon abbey” says make some sort of emotional scene ala artest or whomever. he did have that one tussle with darius miles in the past, but i don’t think that’s enough to expect another incident. his value will only rise, if only because the team trading for him will owe him less.

    looks like he could be a clipper soon, though. hope walsh is holding out for a good deal…

  52. Thomas B.

    “Thomas B, I like your idea here, but doesn’t it rely a little too heavily on an assumption that NBA GM’s are working on a herd mentality with Dereck Zoolanderish inteligence. The McDonalds Cheeseburger is made out of mystery meat, just like all fastfood meat. I agree that it is possible to psych yourself out with the frugal v. sensible side waiting on line, I have done this at Taco Bell many times. The problem however, is that Zach Randloph is decidely NOT mystery meat, and everyone knows it, including NBA GMs. I don’t see any GMs getting fooled by this double-cheeseburger model of used car sale, Zach Randloph is a loser, the writing is on the wall in Font size 2383928992323. Perhaps I am giving NBA GMs too much credit, I hope I am.”

    Ha! Great response T-Mart. Zoolander. A completly under the radar comedy.

    “herd mentality” Yeah, that is a flaw in my logic. I dont think NBA GM’s are a Borg-like hive mind, but they do know what the other is going to do in most cases. But we dont need all the GM’s in heard mentality, just 3 or 4, which is the number of teams that would be interested in Zach. Clips, Denver, Milwaukee, and maybe one other team on the cusp would want Zach anyway. Maybe a three way deal with Denver and the Clips involving Nene going to the Clips, Zach to Denver and a combination of two year deals or picks coming to NY. Nene give LAC interior D, Zach gives Denver low post scoring and Ny gets some cap room.

    Anyway, I trust that Walsh has played this game often enough to do the right thing. My only concern is that I want Randolph gone so much that I would accept anything that is less than 3 years in salary. I mean all we gave up to get Zach was Frye and Franchise. Frye has not looked good since he had that knee injury at the end of his rookie year. So essentially we are trading a young player stuck in first and a former rookie of the year who is on four centerblocks.
    When you think of it that way, Thomas and Mobley arent bad.

    I hope jon abbey isnt right again. I hope Walsh hasnt made a mistake.

    Hey, do we even know for sure what the entire deal was? Maybe the Clips wanted another player the Knicks would not send.

  53. TDM

    “he did have that one tussle with darius miles in the past”

    Actually, I think it was Ruben Patterson, who is known to be a d*ck. Of course, he may has smacked Miles around as well.

  54. jon abbey

    “there’s a very low chance randolph’s value will dip lower. he’d have to play like larry hughes, or as “jon abbey” says make some sort of emotional scene ala artest or whomever. he did have that one tussle with darius miles in the past, but i don’t think that’s enough to expect another incident. his value will only rise, if only because the team trading for him will owe him less.”

    again, I don’t think it’s so clear. right now, Randolph’s got a bit of that “everyone sucked under Isiah” thing going for him, but if he also sucks under D’Antoni (or if D’Antoni won’t play him much), his value will drop. any kind of injury, his value will drop.

    Walsh obviously knows the specifics of the market a lot better than any of us, but it’s a very dangerous game he seems to be playing.

  55. Z

    Maverick–

    It could have been leaked by an underling of Walsh who put the deal together and was so shocked that Walsh rejected it that he caled up SI and leaked it to help get the media and the fans behind pushing the deal through…

    Didn’t Grunwald have that experience when Isiah rejected the package he put together sending Randolph to the Bucks?

  56. Thomas B.

    Thanks to TDM everytime I read the name “Grunwald” I think Grundy. Man, I have to stop smoking this stuff.

  57. bud

    fair enough, but i don’t see it as likely cause he’s young and still good at what he does – not a guy to build around but he can score in that high post/midrange game he has and board.

    yea good call that was the registered sex offender, not d.miles.

  58. Brendan

    One random other possible leak motive: Walsh leaked it because he was asked. Given the priority he placed on transforming the Garden’s media policies at his hiring, it may have entered his thinking that handing out a small bit of off-season trade chatter to columnist(s) was a small price to help end the bloody knife-fight between press and team which was Isiah’s tenure.

  59. Ray

    For the record…I would have stuck my hand in the sludge and gotten that dollar. Then i would have went home and used hand sanitizer. Z-Bo being dealt needs to happen before the season starts. Im okay with driving up the price but get the deal done before the season starts!! I want to see Eddy get off to a good start abusing guys in the post. When hes down there by himself he’s unstoppable. Don’t you guys remember?? Zach will just interrupt the flow of his game. I ran into a book called “Seven Seconds or Less” ii i believe its by Jack McCallum. It documents a season will the Suns as an assistant coach. Maybe that can be the Knickerblogger book club book for the summer. Yeah, Westbrook is killing me right now. I knew he was going to be a baller. Also, kudos to the Nets for getting CDR. Freaking brilliant pick. That dude is going to be a star. Knicks fan for life but when the Nets get to Brooklyn I’ll be watching. Even though that might be in 2020.

  60. Kwayry

    The rumor is the offer was Mobley and the rights to Jordan for Zbo.

    I wouldn’t pull the trigger on that, throwing in a protected first round pick and we are talking.

  61. jon abbey

    “The rumor is the offer was Mobley and the rights to Jordan for Zbo.”

    wow, are you kidding? I’d throw in my eighteen year old daughter (if I had one) to make this happen, Jordan would mean that Jerome James would definitely be bought out.

  62. jon abbey

    “One random other possible leak motive: Walsh leaked it because he was asked. Given the priority he placed on transforming the Garden’s media policies at his hiring, it may have entered his thinking that handing out a small bit of off-season trade chatter to columnist(s) was a small price to help end the bloody knife-fight between press and team which was Isiah’s tenure.”

    if there’s truth to this (and there could be), it’s been pretty poorly executed so far. Walsh sounded like an idiot (a few hours retroactively) on draft day when he told the reporter he was sure he was going to get the PG he wanted and then watched Westbrook and Mayo both go. I’d say there’s a chance that his talking too much to reporters about his love with Westbrook was part of the reason he ended up jumping out of NY’s reach. so if there is truth to this, I’d say there’s a happy medium between Isiah and where Walsh has been so far.

  63. Captain Merlin

    well, looks like our beloved mr. marbury added a tattoo to his temple, in the design of his shoe logo. Hopefully, with this as evidence, Marbury can be proven mentally unfit to remain in the league, thus allowing the team relief from his contract on the basis of being forced into retirement by injury. One can dream ay?

    About that Mobley & Jordan for Zbo rumor…I would throw in 5/6 of my soul for that to go through. I’d be willing to settle for just letting the Prime Minister of Pudding float away for cap space, but to get a possible up and comer who was at one point touted as a top 10 talent…well, that’d just be terrific.

  64. Brendan

    And with that, Starbury officially trips the Mike Tyson alarm and begins fading into Bolivian.

  65. jon abbey

    “well, looks like our beloved mr. marbury added a tattoo to his temple, in the design of his shoe logo. ”

    he should add a $15 price tag underneath it, crossed out and replaced by “now only $8.99!”.

  66. Renaldo Balkman's Agent

    C’mon guys, tone it down, huh. The Clips are listening in on our conversations.

    This from ClipperBlogger:

    “Apart from the obvious character issues, Randolph has never been considered even a good defender. I went to a Knicks blog and they are laughing at us for even considering it.”

    http://www.clipperblog.com/index.php/item/610#nucleus_cf

    …Time to go into covert doublespeak mode!

  67. Z

    “The rumor is the offer was Mobley and the rights to Jordan for Zbo.”

    That is a totally fair trade for both teams. A junk contract just one year shorter and a 2nd rounder that probably won’t amount to anything much for a guy we have no use for but fills a gaping void for them.

    Seems like a win-win to me. Too bad Walsh apparently doesn’t see it that way too.

    As for the rumor that Walsh wants Gordon, he signed with the Clips last week. Doesn’t that mean he can’t be traded for 90 days? (I don’t think Jordan has signed yet).

  68. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    C’mon guys, tone it down, huh. The Clips are listening in on our conversations.
    This from ClipperBlogger:
    “Apart from the obvious character issues, Randolph has never been considered even a good defender. I went to a Knicks blog and they are laughing at us for even considering it.”
    http://www.clipperblog.com/index.php/item/610#nucleus_cf
    …Time to go into covert doublespeak mode!

    Yeah just read that chain. Interesting how much they love David Lee, think he’s a better player than Randolph, but pretty much consider him untouchable. We should send some David Lee haters to go over there & tell them that Lee is overrated, can’t hit a jumpshot, allow the other team to double team anyone they want, sucks on defense, etc.

  69. Captain Merlin

    Well, according to the Post, D’Antoni is said to “envision a forward tandem of Gallinari and Wilson Chandler Wilson Chandler for years to come.” Don’t exactly know what this means in terms of the future of the Clips’ new crush. Maybe this makes him expendable so that the team could use him to sweeten the deal with the Clips enough to include some other assets. Then again, they are the Clips, so it’s really hard to locate any assets on their roster. Also, I always thought Gallinari was more of a 3 than a 4, no? Not enough of a banger or a boarder to bash around down low. Trading Lee worries me a little. I think he’s definitely deserved a trial run as a starter here, and as he’s virtually the only wanted asset, the team ought to be sure he isn’t given up only to sweeten some deal to land a shitty little gnome of a player in return.
    Maybe the Clips are holding out for Walsh to agree to cover Zbo’s Jello pudding cup expenditures too.

  70. Maverick

    The rumor is the offer was Mobley and the rights to Jordan for Zbo.
    I wouldn’t pull the trigger on that, throwing in a protected first round pick and we are talking.

    Well, I highly doubt that. The newsday and SI articles talked about a “salary dump”, trading for Jordan is no salary dump. The rumor I heard is a second round pick for Zbo.
    Moreover, that phrase “salary dump” makes me think it was the Clippers that leaked the story. Salary dump sounds just too sweet to Knick fans. Walsh would have used different terms.

    I am not sure if the Mobley and Jordan offer is valid, although, looking at it from a different perspective, the trade would net the Knicks a 14 million trade exception, which can net them a first round pick somewhere else (from Phoenix maybe?) so the trade may end up returning a first rounder in addition to Jordan.

    I am just speculating here but I have no doubt in my mind that if the offer was Jordan and Mobley, Walsh would jump all over it. Jordan was a projected mid to late first round pick. I would not be shocked if that was the actual counter offer from the Knicks.
    I think this trade will have to wait few weeks until mid August, when the Clippers would have no more options.
    As to the posters that say the Knicks can be patient until next off season, I think that would be too late. I am on record as saying that this is the worst time to trade Zbo, but what I had in mind was September or February. Even if the Knicks do not get full value, as they see it, for Zbo, that would be one less egg, albeit a giant one, off their basket to worry about next off season if they trade him by February.

  71. Captain Merlin

    Well Maverick, given last year’s debacle, I’ve grown to embrace the fact that “one less egg” is in fact Zbo’s maximum trade return value.

  72. Z

    “according to the Post, D’Antoni is said to ‘envision a forward tandem of Gallinari and Wilson Chandler Wilson Chandler for years to come.’”

    The same Post article also says:

    “The Knicks desperately want to trade Randolph’s contract to get under the cap by 2010. SI.com reported the Clippers were interested in Randolph but president Donnie Walsh reportedly rejected a deal, likely because he couldn’t get enough short-term contracts.”

    ?

    That seems like pretty lame reporting. The only contracts the Clips have to offer longer than Randolph’s are Kaman’s and Baron Davis’, neither of which were offered, so why report that, especially since the Clips are under the cap and don’t even need to include matching contracts?! Maybe it’s just lazy weekend reporting, but if they are going to sell their paper, they may as well spend more than 10 seconds writing their pieces.

    I guess I’m frustrated trying to make sense of this trade “rejection”…

  73. Ray

    I guess we’ll see what happens. If Danillo and Chandler are the future….where will our rebounding come from? Sounds like trouble to me.

  74. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    “according to the Post, D’Antoni is said to ‘envision a forward tandem of Gallinari and Wilson Chandler Wilson Chandler for years to come.’”

    The same Post article also says:

    “The Knicks desperately want to trade Randolph’s contract to get under the cap by 2010. SI.com reported the Clippers were interested in Randolph but president Donnie Walsh reportedly rejected a deal, likely because he couldn’t get enough short-term contracts.”

    ?

    That seems like pretty lame reporting. The only contracts the Clips have to offer longer than Randolph’s are Kaman’s and Baron Davis’, neither of which were offered, so why report that, especially since the Clips are under the cap and don’t even need to include matching contracts?! Maybe it’s just lazy weekend reporting, but if they are going to sell their paper, they may as well spend more than 10 seconds writing their pieces.

    I guess I’m frustrated trying to make sense of this trade “rejection”…

    Good catch. And the mainstream press is always railing against bloggers because there is a lack of fact checking and accountability.

  75. jon abbey

    “And the mainstream press is always railing against bloggers because there is a lack of fact checking and accountability.”

    heh, that’s just what they say, the real reason is their jobs are being phased out because people can get faster and more reliable info from said bloggers, so they occasionally try to use their bully pulpits to malign the masses.

    would we really get a massive trade exception if the Clippers take Randolph with no (or minimal) salaries coming back? I kind of thought that didn’t apply to teams over the cap, but I don’t really know. anyone?

  76. jdon

    First, I can’t believe how many here are eager to give up on the coming season. Second, making plans dependent on an innately nebulous scenario fraught with myriad variables is foolish in the extreme; freeing cap space for a supposed free agent bonanza two years hence is beyond that. I don’t know any decent player who doesn’t always seriously think his team will win it all. Is it so unrealistic to expect fans to feel the same? This is the only attitude which allows winning.
    As for the Randolph dump – the guy works hard to get his stats but that seems the extent of his vision. It’s best for the team to be rid of such a player. Unenlightened self-centeredness is toxic to team play. The Knicks, however, are in a position of strength vis a vis the Clips. The Clips need Randolph; the Knicks, though better off w/o him, don’t need to get rid of him. I’d have been surprised if Walsh had done anything but turn down the first offer.
    I must admit, though, if he stays it’ll be interesting to see which collapses first in the D’Antoni system – Randolph’s desire to get downcourt on offense or Randolph himself.

    I seriously doubt he starts the season with the Knicks. Reading and interview with D’Antoni, his one major bugaboo is selfishness. On or off the court. Zach personifies selfishness in almost every way. I see him being gone. But I like the fact that Walsh is driving up the price.

  77. TDM

    Newsday is reporting that the Clippers offered a second round pick for Randolph. Wow. All that salary off the cap and a 2nd rounder . . . I think I’d take that if I were pulling the strings.

  78. Thomas B.

    Congratulations jdon! You are the first poster to seriously abuse the new block quote feature here at Knickerblogger.net. Way to go! I would add to your Karma by giving you a thumbs up, but that feature was removed recently.
    ———-

    I am going to “Dare to Dream” when it comes to the new season. I dream that Marbury will come into camp in great shape and have a come back season. I dream that Crawford will use his speed and ball handling to get to the line twice as often as he did last year. I dream that Richardson will recapture the magic touch he had in 2004. I dream that Randolph will play team basketball on offense, and any basketball on defense. I dream that Curry will average 2 blocks and 9 rebounds per game. I dare to dream that Robinson, Lee, Chandler, and Gallanari will be come the most effective reserve unit in the NBA. They will be known as the Four Horsemen. I dream that Mardy Collins will compensate for his poor shooting by posting up the smaller points ala Mark Jackson. I dream that D’antoni will lead this team to a 45 win season. Hope springs eternal. This year we can do it. Dare to dream with me people. They may take our lives but they will never take our freedom. Because no matter what the scoreboard says, in my book we are going to be winners. Yes, today I consider myself the luckiest man on th face of the Earth. I love the NY Knicks, and tonight when you hit your knees, ask God to love them too.

  79. Captain Merlin

    Thomas B, I got around to talking to God a bit ago, and well, when the whole loving the Knicks bit came up, he was pretty adamantly opposed to the idea, in fact he was pretty set on delivering an NBA franchise to Winnipeg, Manitoba as his #1 priority. Looks like the whole divine aid plan is pretty shot.

    I have a foreboding feeling that this season will be much like some of the past few–hopeshattering disappointments. Call it conditioning.

  80. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger) Post author

    Thomas B, I got around to talking to God a bit ago, and well, when the whole loving the Knicks bit came up, he was pretty adamantly opposed to the idea, in fact he was pretty set on delivering an NBA franchise to Winnipeg, Manitoba as his #1 priority. Looks like the whole divine aid plan is pretty shot.

    “My concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side.” — Abraham Lincoln

    As Knick fans, considering some of the facts that came to light during last summer’s trial, it looks like we’re screwed.

  81. Captain Merlin

    When applying that Abe Lincoln quote to the results of my intimate conversation with god, it’s quite clear what we must do. Fight for the relocation of a team to Winnipeg. Here we go Winnipeg Whiteouts. Maybe that’ll appease him enough for the 8th seed. Funny how I’ve already been reduced to hopeless groveling 3 1/2 months before the season even begins.

  82. Brendan

    The funny thing is, Winnipeg Whiteouts is almost certain to be a far, far better team name than whatever the Oklahoma Abominations actually get named. Also your Doctor Who avatar is excellent; my respects.

  83. cavjam

    No, it was having talented young players like Al Jefferson….

    So, are you saying Boston didn’t have a “We can win it now” attitude? Or are you simply trying to defend your position by any means necessary?

    I’m sure you’ve heard this many times, but superstars win championships,….

    Actually, it’s a team that wins a championship – that’s why the team keeps the trophy, not the so-called superstar – but thanks for the condescension.

    BTW, your stated exceptions prove that bromide false.

    That’s the only way we’re going to win a championship, and I’ll take that plan over your “Let’s hope Jared Jeffries becomes an offensive force through sheer force of will!”, Green Lantern-esque plan for the New York Knicks.

    My posit, one of several, was that Jeffries (and Balkman) becomes more of a scorer in a run and lay-up system. It seems a likely result, though a truly minor factor in a winning season. Somehow this becomes a sole hope, upon which the fortunes of the team depend, that “Jeffries becomes an offensive force through sheer force of will!” Is this just poor comprehension skills or the aforementioned any means necessary to defend a position?

  84. Brian Cronin

    I kind of thought that didn’t apply to teams over the cap, but I don’t really know. anyone?

    From my reading of the Salary Cap rules (not saying that is the correct reading, of course), teams over the cap can still acquire trade exceptions.

  85. Caleb

    Brian, you are right. At least, I’m 99% sure — it’s wildly complicated. But a good reminder is that “exceptions” don’t apply to teams under the cap. That’s what makes them “exceptions.”
    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#68

    Walsh is a master of the trade exception — you might remember what he pulled off with Peja Stojakovic, after the Artest trade. Peja signed a huge offer from the Hornets. Walsh didn’t want to keep him – at least, not at the high price – but he convinced the Hornets to make it a sign and trade. He forked over a little bit of cash, and New Orleans traded rights to a 1998 second-round pick. With this sleight of hand, Walsh gave his over-the-cap Pacers the right to trade for a high-salaried player, without sending back much of anything. Of course, he ended up using it to trade for Al Harrington… oops… but it was still a slick maneuver. Here’s a detailed account:
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2519835

    Trading Randolph without taking back matching salary would give us a very big trade exception. I’m not sure we would or should use it — depends on the deal – but it’s a great option to have.

    As far as the Clippers go, I think we all need to take a deep breath. I’m sure they’ll explore other options, but it doesn’t mean they’ll work. Restricted free agents are restricted. And Shawn Marion — how would the Clippers convince Miami to make that trade? And does he really want to sign an extension with the Clippers? Anyway, there’s a good chance they’ll be back at the bargaining table. Hell, they could sign Andre Iguodala to a $16 million deal and STILL be able to make a Randolph trade, sending back Mobley and Tim Thomas. But none of this is going to shake out for at least a few weeks…

    p.s. re: the Celtics — I agree, it wasn’t just a “win now” attitude but having chips to play. Not just Al Jefferson but a pair of high lottery picks. Just the Garnett trade alone, which will be complete only next year when the Wolves get Boston’s 1st-round pick… basically, the Wolves traded Garnett for next year’s Boston pick (say, #28), Al Jefferson, Kevin Love, Mike Miller, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair and about $11 million in cap space (Ratliff). Knicks don’t have anything close to that kind of ammo.

  86. Caleb

    As far as “superstars win championships,” that doesn’t seem to be Walsh’s philosophy — the Indiana teams were much more a collection of very good players, like the recent Pistons, than the “superstar-plus” model.

  87. jon abbey

    “As far as “superstars win championships,” that doesn’t seem to be Walsh’s philosophy — the Indiana teams were much more a collection of very good players, like the recent Pistons, than the “superstar-plus” model.”

    “superstars win championships” is everyone’s philosophy in the NBA, there’s no getting around it. there are only a handful of these guys in the league at any time, most teams never have a chance to get one.

  88. Ted Nelson

    This seems like the right move. Even if Walsh thinks that’s the best offer he’ll ever get, why jump on it instead of making the Clippers sweat out the restricted free agent process? Watch their offer get matched and their free agent return to his team. At that point maybe they throw in a 1st rounder instead of letting Baron Davis know he just signed with the Clippers… Of course, once he plays a few games with Zach Randolph, he’s going to figure it out anyway.
    If there’s nothing better out there the only way it backfires is if the Clipps sign a free agent or offer a similar deal to another team for a max-salary guy, but in that case Donnie Walsh could have ended his conversation with Baylor or whoever from LAC by saying “give me a call before you do anything.”

    If there are other offers, something like Wallyworld (and his expiring deal) straight-up or (better) him plus a future pick or Anderson Varejao seems to me like a better deal to me. If you’re not the Knicks you’d rather not pay Wally, but if money makes no difference in the short-term why not add a guy with a .573 career TS% and .525 eFG% plus maybe a better pick (1st) or interior defender (Anderson)? The Knicks’ biggest immediate needs seem like interior defense and outside shooting.

    Anyway, it’s nice to see that someone wants Zach Randolph.

  89. Thomas B.
    Thomas B, I got around to talking to God a bit ago, and well, when the whole loving the Knicks bit came up, he was pretty adamantly opposed to the idea, in fact he was pretty set on delivering an NBA franchise to Winnipeg, Manitoba as his #1 priority. Looks like the whole divine aid plan is pretty shot.

    “My concern is not whether God is on our side; my greatest concern is to be on God’s side.” — Abraham Lincoln
    As Knick fans, considering some of the facts that came to light during last summer’s trial, it looks like we’re screwed.

    Did no one notice that those lines were borrowed from the inspirational section of several famous movies? Hackman in Hoosiers, Gibson in Braveheart, whats his name in Pride of the Yankees, Brian’s song, ect.

  90. TDM

    Ok, Eric Gordon has a strained hammy and will sit the remainder of the summer. Any chance of re-opening the channels with the clips and adding J Craw to the Z-bo trade as a package deal?

  91. TrentMotherTucker

    You guys crack me up.

    You really think a player that averages 20/10 is only worth a 2nd round pick? All for salary cap relief? Yikes!

    I like the move, it’s like Donnie Walsh is saying to the entire delusional NBA… I’M NOT ISIAH YOU PUNK A** B*TCHES SO GET THE F*** OUT OF MY FACE WITH THAT WEAK A** SH*T!

  92. Renaldo Balkman's Agent

    Maybe Walsh is holding out for the rights to Sophocles Schortsanitis.

    I mean, you can’t just get nothing for Zach. His fat ass needs to be replaced by the fattest ass available.

    Imagine Eddy Curry, Jerome James, AND Big Sofo on the same front line? Randolph wouldn’t even be missed!

Comments are closed.