Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, November 28, 2014

The Garnett Rumors

According to a (very) recent report, the consensus now in NBA circles is that Kevin Garnett will very likely be traded to the Phoenix Suns, with the Lakers still pushing to get involved.

Garnett playing alongside Nash would be tremendous to see, even more so if the Suns somehow manage to avoid losing Amare Stoudemire in the deal.

Meanwhile, though, if you’re Boston – if you don’t get Kevin Garnett (or Stoudemire, I suppose), why would you ever trade Al Jefferson?

If you’re Atlanta, how awesome would it be to flip #3 and #11 for Amare freakin’ Stoudemire?!?!

If you’re Minnesota, which would you prefer – Jefferson and the #5 or the #3 and the #11? I think Jefferson and the #5 is a no brainer.

In any event, looks like some interesting times leading up to the NBA draft. It looks like we WILL have a deal before the draft, so tomorrow and Thursday should get reeeeeeeeeal interesting.

21 comments on “The Garnett Rumors

  1. Owen

    It’s interesting to me that the Suns want to get rid of Marion rather than Stoudemire in their quest for Garnett. Both are fantastic players, but Stoudemire probably wasn’t deserving of first team All NBA. In my mind, Marion is definitely the better player. Not only that, but a trio of Nash, Marion, and Garnett seems to make more sense than Nash, Stoudemire, Garnett.

    It was amazing to me that Phoenix, who have by far the best trio of players in the league, didn’t go further. Garnett is not a huge upgrade at this point on Marion or Stoudemire. I wonder if he would be enough to get them over the hump…

  2. MattinDC

    I think there’s some tension in Phoenix…and Garnett might solve it. One main issue being the alpha dog battle between Marion and Amare (if you can believe the book “7 seconds or less” by McCallum).

    Amare is more dominatig on offense than Marion, while Marion is a better defender. I think KG is an upgrade on offense over marion, but a downgrade in quickness on D. But KG likes to pass (over 4 apg last year with weak teammates) and I think he’d let Amare do his thing in the post. While KG can’t guard the 1-4 spots like Marion, he can lock up Duncan more effectively. If the Suns are tooling up to dethrone the Spurs, KG’s the one to do it.

  3. Hudson River

    What would the Suns lineup be?

    Steve Nash
    Raja Bell
    Boris Diaw
    Kevin Garnett
    Amare Stoudemire

    With Leandrino Barbosa, James Jones, and Kurt Thomas coming off the bench? That seems too slow for their style to me Marion is one of the keys as to why their style works. Would they slow it down a little?

  4. Z

    Three years ago when Phoenix began playing their “style” of ball, stomping through the regular season, critics said that they would not be able to win in the playoffs with it. Fans defended the style because it was 100 times more entertaining to watch than the grind it out basketball of the Spurs and Pistons.

    Three years later, though, the critics have ultimately been proved right– Phoenix has not made it out of the West.

    Adding Garnett for either Marion or Amare would change their style, but I don’t think that would be a bad thing for them. Plus, they get to remain a top attraction and fan favorite team because of the exciting pairing of two of the league’s top players.

    If I’m Phoenix I do it for either guy, and I do it for Amare definitely to keep KG from playing with Kobe in the same division. (Lakers will turn their focus to Indiana, who is a major step down from Garnett talent-wise and marketing wise, adding to the Phoenix coup.)

  5. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger)

    “the critics have ultimately been proved right”

    I don’t agree with this assessment. It’s like how people say that communism doesn’t work, because a few communist countries failed. No one says “look at Haiti – that’s proof capitalism doesn’t work!”

    The Suns were VERY close to knocking the Spurs out, and anyone who thinks that their style of play made them largely inferior to any other team is wrong. How come when the Jazz or Pistons lose, someone doesn’t say “see – playing traditionally just doesn’t work!”

  6. LostmyKnickers

    i agree with the host. Golden State knocked off Dallas playing ball simalarly to Phoenix. Does that mean that conventional methods only work in the regular season and not in the short playoff series of course not. I think an improtant question is which pace lend it self to being more efficient. The hectic up and down style that phoenix plays or the traditional half court offense. There might not be an answer to this.

  7. Z

    “anyone who thinks that their style of play made them largely inferior to any other team is wrong.”

    Don’t the Spurs’ two championships in that span make the Suns inferior?

    But I also didn’t say “largely” inferior. I think they are close and Garnett puts them over the top. The move for Phoenix is a no-brainer– even if they don’t improve on the court, they are an even more marketable team with KG. With Nash in his prime, the Suns need to go all in. The lineup that Hudson River proposes looks pretty awesome if I’m a Suns fan.

    And, as for Communism, how many millions of people need to die in China and Russia before D’antoni implements a half-court game in the playoffs?

  8. caleb

    The reason they would rather shop Marion is that Stoudemire is 5 years younger. Assuming his leg holds up (and you have to think their doctors are on top of it) he will still be improving. He’s the same age as Eddie Curry & Channing Frye. Sigh.

    Plus, I think his contract is about $4 million cheaper per year.

  9. tastycakes

    How quickly we forget that if not for those awful suspensions, Phoenix would have had a stellar opportunity at knocking off the Spurs and winning the title. I don’t see why they would mess with their big three unless it netted them Garnett and some of the depth they sorely need. This is why I could only see them moving Stoudemire if they got KG + a lottery pick or another quality veteran. I love KG to death but Amare has a chance (health permitting) to be one of the great forwards in the history of the game.

    Also, if you think that the Suns are still incompetent on the defensive end, I think you’re probably watching reruns of their games from 2005. They have become a solid, balanced defensive team. To me, their biggest problem is a lack of depth. If D’antoni can’t trust more than 6 guys come playoff time, who’s supposed to have fresh legs with the game on the line?

    I mean, they had to play Pat Frickin’ Burke in Game 5!

  10. tastycakes

    I’m surprised we haven’t seen the Knicks pop up in any of these trade discussions. I understand that they don’t have the world’s best assets, but they’ve got a pick, a fistful of young talent (Lee, Frye, Balkman, Robinson) and .. a bunch of awful contracts? Who wants our awful contracts for a superstar??

    Perhaps I should be careful what I wish for, given Isiah’s history with trades.

  11. Matthew

    As a Wolves fan, I’d much prefer the Jefferson and #5 deal. With that deal we’d get a proven young player. We can’t get just draft picks because Kevin McHale is a terrible talent evaluator. His best draft pick this decade is Craig Smith. If we only get draft picks we’ll be the worst team in the league for the next 10 years. Guaranteed.

  12. Larry

    Communism doesn’t work.

    The jury is still out on the Suns’ style of play, though. If the Suns decide to murder tens of millions of people, I’ll feel safe saying they didn’t work, either.

  13. ben

    This might not be a very popular thing to say but I think that Amare is overrated. He is a very good player but without Nash he would only be a borderline all-star at best not the all-nba player he is now. Over 65% of all his field goals were on assists. Who is going to be delivering them? Claxton, Lue. Also with the great shooters on Pheonix, teams could never double him, that will not be the case in Atlanta, with only one good shooter. Plus Amare is only a mediocre defender and average rebounder, Garnett on the other hand is a huge upgrade for the suns for the next 2-3 years, exactly how long Nash probably has before he starts to wear down. Then they can let all their big contracts expire and rebuild. Great move for Pheonix.

    Atlanta with Amare will be better but without better point guard play they will struggle to make the playoffs. I think long run they might be better keeping their picks, because they do not have a first next year either. If they stand pat they can get Horford and maybe even Conley if he slips.

  14. dave crockett

    I can?t see Garnett moving prior to the draft and opening of free agency. It?s a difficult deal to do on principle and for a title contender like Phoenix, who would most need to add Garnett to the current mix, this is almost impossible. The more teams you add to the deal the more complexity.

  15. Z

    KB– in 1998 the Yankees were one of the best baseball teams ever. They won something like 115 games. That off season they traded their best pitcher (Wells) for the league’s best pitcher (Clemens). They went on to win two more titles.

    Trading Marion or Amare for KG would be similar in mentality to that deal. It’s not a breaking up of the Suns but an upgrade, even if a minor one, at one key position.

    (and as a footnote, Clemens had a pretty subpar year in 1999, and the team lost close to 20 more games I think. But they still played well enough to win in the post season (the Suns’ new goal) AND the value of the team increased a lot with Clemens on it (hence his recent return at $30 million bucks a pop). Despite the team’s success the year before, the deal was a no-brainer for the Yankees. This one for Garnett is too).

  16. caleb

    personally, I wouldn’t trade Amare for Garnett… KG maybe has one more year of being better, and it’s close even now. Tough call, though, especially since Nash isn’t getting any younger.

    What I don’t understand, with regard to the rumored 3-way deal with Atlanta… why would Minnesota take the #3 and #11, and let the Hawks get Stoudemire? If that trade were going down, why wouldn’t it just be between the Suns and T-Wolves? That makes so little sense, I don’t believe the whole thing is anything but imaginary. More likely Boston would pull it off, giving Minny the #5 and Ratliff’s expiring deal (plus maybe a future #1) and getting Marion in return, assuming they can work out a contract.

    I wouldn’t count out the Bulls, either… don’t they have some cap room to take on Marion (or Stoudamire), and plenty of young players to offer?

    If KG gets traded it will be a last-minute thing – something we haven’t heard about yet, some team swooping in at the last minute.

  17. MattinDC

    I initially backed up a KG for Marion trade, but now I have to favor the Amare for KG scenario.

    Amare seems to keep developing his offensive game each year; however, his defense and ball handling are questionable. Without Nash and plenty of outside shooting, would he still drop 24 and 12?

    Either way, Suns should trade either Marion or Amare for KG if they want to win NOW. If they are looking 3-4 years down the road, stand pat and waste Nash’s last years of dominance.

  18. DS

    The rumor over at Yahoo! Sports is Zach Randolph and Martell Webster for Francis and Frye. I can’t imagine Portland would take it – but could that possibly work? Curry and Randolph in the post? Has Frye plateaued already??

  19. Conor

    “This might not be a very popular thing to say but I think that Amare is overrated. He is a very good player but without Nash he would only be a borderline all-star at best not the all-nba player he is now.”

    This might not be a popular thing to say, but I think Nash is overrated. He is a very good player, but without Stoudamire, he would be a borderline all star, not the two time MVP he is now.

    Nash didnt become Steve Nash until he started playing with Stoudamire. Granted, he had an awesome 06 season where Stoudamire was in and out of the lineup, but I don’t see how people can say Nash makes Amare without realizing its possible Amare makes Nash just as much. The two highest assist rates Nash has ever had both occurred when Amare was healthy and playing.

    I think the entire Suns situation is kind of like the perfect storm. They have the perfect mix of players to play the kind of style they have; they have a probing PG who is always looking to push the ball and make plays, but I think Amare and Marion make that team. They have a 3 and a 4 who are such freakish athletes that they can get away playing them major minutes at the 4 and 5, which means they have a significant quickness advantage and thats why they can push the ball so much. I don’t know if either Amare or Nash is more responsible for the success of the other (I have a hunch its Amare, since Nash wasn’t an MVP in Dallas and he had a great player in Dirk along side him) but I think its fair to say that if you mess with that mix the results won’t be the same.

    Not that putting Garnett in the lineup for Amare would make them worse, but they wouldn’t be as successful playing the same style they do now.

    one other thing; why the hell doesn’t Minnesota just take Amare? It seems like they are trying to find a third team to trade Amare to; why wouldnt they just keep him? Would you rather have Jefferson and the #5 or Amare?

  20. jon abbey

    I don’t think Phoenix has actually offered Amare to anyone, Atlanta or Minnesota. I think that the vast majority of what we’ve heard rumored in the last week or so has no basis in fact.

Comments are closed.