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Saturday, October 25, 2014

Poll: The Deed is Done- Do You Approve?

Carmelo is a Knick.

From the NYT Off the Dribble Knicks blog:

The Knicks will get Anthony, a 6-foot-8 small forward, along with the veteran point guard Chauncey Billups and three nominal role players – forwards Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman and guard Anthony Carter.

In exchange, Denver will receive four of the Knicks’ top players – Danilo Gallinari, Raymond Felton, Wilson Chandler and Timofey Mozgov – along with the Knicks’ first-round pick in 2014. The Knicks are also giving up two second-round picks acquired from Golden State, in 2012 and 2013, and will send $3 million cash to Denver.

As part of the deal, the Knicks will send Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry and $3 million to Minnesota, in exchange for Corey Brewer. The Knicks have not yet decided whether to keep Brewer or flip him in another deal

.”

Do you approve of the Knicks trade for Carmelo Anthony?

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68 comments on “Poll: The Deed is Done- Do You Approve?

  1. Brian Cronin

    they finally really did it.. those maniacs.. they blew it up… damn them! damn them all to hell!

    Hey, you can’t steal my joke! :)

  2. Quicker

    Yes, yes indeed I approve. The Knicks are a better team now. I’ll miss some of the players they gave up, especially Felton who really was an old school type point and really seemed at home as a Knick.

    However, Billups is better, Carmelo is better than Gallinari and Chandler. Mosgov? Who can say what he’ll be but I think that Sheldon is a better defender in the post. I just wish he was 6’ll. Randolph has looked pitiful for months with limited playing time.

    I actually Brewer is decent but I really would have preferred a usable big. Maybe another deal is forthcoming..I hope so.

    However, right now, the Knicks are a better team and that’s what you hope for in any trade scenario.

    See you at the Garden!

  3. dmull

    My only real issue with the deal is that I would’ve told them they’re taking Fields, not Galli and kept my foot down on that. I don’t see how that would be a deal breaker for them…

    I voted an emphatic Yes. Fuck yo stats nigga!

  4. Brian Cronin

    However, right now, the Knicks are a better team and that’s what you hope for in any trade scenario.

    It really, really, really isn’t. Or else Steve Nash for Russell Westbrook would be a good trade for the Oklahoma Thunder.

  5. JK47

    Uh, at least it’s only a three year deal? We get to watch Renaldo Balkman sit at the end of the bench? Shelden Williams is a pretty good rebounder?

    I got nothin’. I’m the biggest ‘Cuse homer there is and I don’t like this trade.

  6. Brian Cronin

    By the way, how weird was it that Denver gave Balkman an extension before the 2009-10 season and then promptly never played him again? That’s really weird, right?

  7. endyendy

    I approve of Melo, I don’t approve of this. Current roster might be a second round playoff team, but unless there’s a chemistry explosion or we somehow manage to get a good PG to replace Billups and a decent bench that’s about all we have.

    I think this team is better than what we had right now, but will it be better in 2-3 years?

  8. Brian Cronin

    By the by, not for nothing, but odds are the Knicks aren’t a second round playoff team this year, right? I just found it kinda weird to see debate over whether being a second round playoff team is bad or not when the Knicks haven’t even shown that they’re at that level yet.

  9. Brian Cronin

    Are there any decent players out there who might get bought out by their teams after the trade deadline (and no, Eddy Curry doesn’t count)?

  10. nicos

    Not a fan of the deal- it’ll be interesting to see if DW (or maybe I should say Isiah) pulls off another deal before the deadline- figure Azu and Brewer’s expiring deals might be able to yield something. Maybe including Timo was just a way to get the deal done with enough time left to make another move. Still probably not worth it though.

    I’m going to be interested in seeing how the trade impacts TD- coming into the season I really thought he had the chance to be the third best player on the team behind AR & Gallo- he should see a few more minutes a night at the point which probably won’t be a good thing but might not be quite as bad as it looks as now he can just give the ball to Carmelo and get out of the way. His shooting looks like it might be coming back around after the shoulder woes. Maybe he plays his way back to looking like a poor man’s Jason Terry and becomes a trade asset for 2012- I sure hope so.

  11. TheRant

    I vote no. Especially because we now have virtually no pieces we might trade to make us better still, plus (I’m virtually certain that) we have a disenfranchised Donnie Walsh with no contract and thus nobody who is going to take us through summer 2011 and next winter, when equally important moves need to be made.

    I never would have guessed that 10/10-2/11 would have been the golden era.

  12. massive

    Brian Cronin: Are there any decent players out there who might get bought out by their teams after the trade deadline (and no, Eddy Curry doesn’t count)?  

    Richard Hamilton has been rumored to be bought out.

  13. jaylamerique

    Brian Cronin: Are there any decent players out there who might get bought out by their teams after the trade deadline (and no, Eddy Curry doesn’t count)?  

    Troy Murphy

  14. jaylamerique

    TheRant: I vote no.Especially because we now have virtually no pieces we might trade to make us better still, plus (I’m virtually certain that) we have a disenfranchised Donnie Walsh with no contract and thus nobody who is going to take us through summer 2011 and next winter, when equally important moves need to be made.I never would have guessed that 10/10-2/11 would have been the golden era.  

    the golden era is .500 basketball?. Really?

  15. DS

    Do you think basketball fans will be angry if the Hornets ownership (the NBA) trades CP3 for Billups, Fields, and Sheldon Williams before the deadline?

  16. massive

    The mainstream media seems to believe that in two years the Knicks and Heat will be the best two teams in the East. Thoughts? Will we be better than Chicago and Orlando?

  17. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin: Are there any decent players out there who might get bought out by their teams after the trade deadline (and no, Eddy Curry doesn’t count)?  

    Jared Jeffries!!!!

  18. Brian Cronin

    Hehe. Funny tweet from InsideHoops – “It is now confirmed that Carmelo Anthony is included in the major trade bringing Renaldo Balkman back to New York.”

  19. TheRant

    jaylamerique: the golden era is .500 basketball?. Really?

    Not at all. That’s why I said I “never would have guessed it.”

    The golden era was hope in rebuilding. It was patience and a perceived lack of Dolan’s meddling.

    Remember that the last time Dolan meddled in a deal with Denver to bring in a “big name,” we drafted Nene at 7 and then sent Nene and Camby to Denver for McDyess, who was supposed to be our “marquee” big.

    If we had the patience to rebuild, we could have drafted Stoudemire then, who was next up on the board at 8. Camby and Stoudemire would have been quite a capable front court for the last decade.

  20. massive

    The best part about this deal happening now is that we have 2 more days to make more trades. Not that I see them happening, even though I would love a trade getting us one of Earl Clark and Ryan Anderson from Orlando. We need youth badly.

  21. JK47

    Shelden Williams might actually be a somewhat decent fit. He’s a solid post defender and a strong rebounder. Not sure how many minutes he’ll get but he’s not a complete waste of space.

  22. Brian Cronin

    If we had the patience to rebuild, we could have drafted Stoudemire then, who was next up on the board at 8. Camby and Stoudemire would have been quite a capable front court for the last decade.

    Not for nothing, but the Knicks were going to take Wilcox at #7 (he ended up going at #8 in front of Amar’e).

  23. rama

    Look, will we ever know if the Nuggets would have made the trade without Gallo and/or Mozgov? No. But Melo said he wanted to come here. Told the only real competition he wouldn’t sign an extension with them. WE HAD ALL THE FUCKING LEVERAGE. And then we get the kind of all-in deal that losers with no leverage make. It’s just pathetic.

    Do I like Melo’s game? Yes. Do I think he’ll be great on the Knicks? Yes. Would I have prefered not to trade two good assets we didn’t probably need to trade? YES!@&^%!

    Now all of you who voted for this trade – 1 out of 3 of you – tell me how we add that other piece in 2012 and field a team. I really want to know. We don’t have the cap space. We won’t be able to add a max contract. We don’t have any tradable assets. TELL ME HOW WE ADD THE MISSING PIECE!!

    I’ll wait until the deadline to walk away from this team – maybe Walsh can clean up Dolan’s stinking mess. If he don’t, I’m out. There’s just no point. I’d rather watch the Nuggets get as far in the playoffs as us, with most of our former team.

  24. Richmond County

    How much would it really take to trade for Troy Murphy? Some mix of our collection of warmup suit models has to be better for NJ than straight buying him out right?

  25. jon abbey

    John Kenney: Sources confirm Minnesota will now grab every rebound available per game.  

    and still only win 20 percent of their games, causing Dave Berri’s head to explode.

  26. Brian Cronin

    The best part about this deal happening now is that we have 2 more days to make more trades. Not that I see them happening, even though I would love a trade getting us one of Earl Clark and Ryan Anderson from Orlando. We need youth badly.

    While “untouchable” is not accurate, Ryan Anderson is about as close to “untouchable” as it gets right now in Orlando. Clark might be available, though, but the downside is that he is bad.

  27. DS

    @33 – It’s going to take more than posts that end with “but he’s not a complete waste of space” to lift morale around here. :)

  28. Kevin McElroy

    John Kenney: Do any Dave Berri types know if our team is supposed to be better or worse by his metric?  

    Pretty sure we’d be losing wins by Berri’s measure. Gallo already averages more win shares per game than ‘Melo. Berri is low on usage rate as an important component of value relative to Hollinger (usage rate is a big part of PER).

    This is really all about how well ‘Melo and STAT co-exist both are quick enough to abuse slower defenders and powerful enough to abuse smaller defenders. But both need the ball in their hands and aren’t great passers or rebounders or defenders. With the right role players (and fields and billups are a start) they could be lethal. But I need to see them play together before I start to form anything resembling a final opinion.

  29. massive

    Brian Cronin:
    While “untouchable” is not accurate, Ryan Anderson is about as close to “untouchable” as it gets right now in Orlando. Clark might be available, though, but the downside is that he is bad.  

    I have a friend who follows the Magic pretty rigorously and is saying that Earl Clark is starting to come around. Not sure how true that is, but hey. I don’t see how trading Balkman or something like that for him would hurt.

  30. rama

    I checked Berri’s stats, since I’m curious too. At the moment, the Nuggets have a WS of 33.1 and a rating of .116. The Knicks are at 27.6 and .102.

    Billups is the real star in the deal, according to Berri (and all of us who grew frustrated with Felton’s “I’m-the-man”tics in the last month). But…he’s old. So, hard to get excited about whatever lift he may provide. We gave up at least one player we didn’t have to.

  31. TheRant

    rama: Now all of you who voted for this trade – 1 out of 3 of you – tell me how we add that other piece in 2012 and field a team. I really want to know. We don’t have the cap space. We won’t be able to add a max contract. We don’t have any tradable assets. TELL ME HOW WE ADD THE MISSING PIECE!!

    Rama,

    You forgot “we don’t have a GM anymore.”

  32. John Kenney Post author

    Don’t people make a big deal out of Brewers percentage being low because he takes everrryyy halfcourt shot in Minnesota? Gotta think that can’t affect him too much tho.. sad.

  33. jaylamerique

    rama: Look, will we ever know if the Nuggets would have made the trade without Gallo and/or Mozgov?No.But Melo said he wanted to come here.Told the only real competition he wouldn’t sign an extension with them.WE HAD ALL THE FUCKING LEVERAGE.And then we get the kind of all-in deal that losers with no leverage make.It’s just pathetic.Do I like Melo’s game?Yes.Do I think he’ll be great on the Knicks?Yes.Would I have prefered not to trade two good assets we didn’t probably need to trade?YES!@&^%!
    Now all of you who voted for this trade – 1 out of 3 of you – tell me how we add that other piece in 2012 and field a team.I really want to know.We don’t have the cap space.We won’t be able to add a max contract.We don’t have any tradable assets.TELL ME HOW WE ADD THE MISSING PIECE!!I’ll wait until the deadline to walk away from this team – maybe Walsh can clean up Dolan’s stinking mess.If he don’t, I’m out.There’s just no point.I’d rather watch the Nuggets get as far in the playoffs as us, with most of our former team.  

    we will have atleast 11 million in cap space in 2012 if the cba doesn’t change and everything stays the same. so we are not caped out.

  34. Brian Cronin

    I have a friend who follows the Magic pretty rigorously and is saying that Earl Clark is starting to come around. Not sure how true that is, but hey. I don’t see how trading Balkman or something like that for him would hurt.

    I think Balkman has less trade value than Jared Jeffries. It sure would be hilarious, though, if Balkman were suddenly to make the Knicks rotation.

  35. Ben R

    Yeah but what about Sheldon’s 49.2% TS%. His TS% over his five year career:
    07 – 51.8%
    08 – 49.4%
    09 – 50.3%
    10 – 61.2% ????
    11 – 49.2%

    Unless he becomes the player he was last year I don’t care what his rebound rate is, a sub 52% TS% big man has no place in a teams rotation. If he gets major minutes we are in real trouble.

  36. Ben R

    jaylamerique: we will have atleast 11 million in cap space in 2012 if the cba doesn’t change and everything stays the same. so we are not caped out. jaylamerique

    That is only if we renounce Fields, Douglas, our first round pick this year and any other players we might want to keep. The only way renouncing Fields is worth it is if we get a star and no star is signing for 11 million. So if we keep Fields we have more like 5-6 million in cap space and that is about the same as the MLE so in reality it is not much different than just being over the cap.

  37. New Guy

    You know, I was against this earlier, but now that Bill Simmons, Magic Johnson, Ian O’Connor, AND Stephen A Smith all say it’s a great deal, well who are we to argue with those guys!

    Honestly, I just wish I could read one article from someone who isn’t an idiot tell me this was a good trade without using the flawed best player wins the trade argument.

  38. New Guy

    Ben R:
    That is only if we renounce Fields, Douglas, our first round pick this year and any other players we might want to keep. The only way renouncing Fields is worth it is if we get a star and no star is signing for 11 million. So if we keep Fields we have more like 5-6 million in cap space and that is about the same as the MLE so in reality it is not much different than just being over the cap.  

    Yeah, people don’t seem to get that we have to lose Fields in 2 years to make anything happen.

  39. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, people don’t seem to get that we have to lose Fields in 2 years to make anything happen.

    I love Fields, but if losing him brings in Chris Paul, I wouldn’t even have to think about it for a minute, I’d dump Landry.

  40. JK47

    @54

    You’re that attached to Mozgov after his epic 458 minutes and 4 points, 3 rebounds per game? It’s not like it’s Ewing or Oakley that’s being traded here.

    Losing Gallo does hurt though.

  41. BigBlueAL

    Ben R: Yeah but what about Sheldon’s 49.2% TS%. His TS% over his five year career:
    07 – 51.8%
    08 – 49.4%
    09 – 50.3%
    10 – 61.2% ????
    11 – 49.2%Unless he becomes the player he was last year I don’t care what his rebound rate is, a sub 52% TS% big man has no place in a teams rotation. If he gets major minutes we are in real trouble.  

    You just described Anthony Randolph. lol

  42. John Kenney Post author

    All hope isn’t entirely lost about post 2012… the only players still on the roster then are Landry, Amare, Melo, and Balkman right? If sign and trades still exist post-new-cba, we could find a team with cap room but no chance of getting Paul, to act as facilitator in a sign and trade for the bonus of getting Fields out of the deal. Bigger issue is will a PG take a pay cut to get here… it’d really help us if salary cap remains about same but max salary went down so that other teams couldn’t offer any more $ anyways.
    Anyways, maybe we’ll get Nash. who knows.

  43. New Guy

    Any word on whether we even bothered to negotiate protection on the pick? It’s a long way down the line. What if 2014 is the year Amare breaks down?

  44. Ben R

    Brian Cronin: I love Fields, but if losing him brings in Chris Paul, I wouldn’t even have to think about it for a minute, I’d dump Landry.

    Even if we renounce everybody and the Cap doesn’t shrink the new CBA we will still be short on signing a player like Chris Paul. There is no way Paul takes a $5-6 million+ a year haircut just to play here.

    So really there would be no reason to renounce Landry.

    One positive. I think Azubuike could play a future role on this team. I hope we hold on to him and resign him. He is a good player and once he is fully back from this injury he will be a huge upgrade over Walker and Williams.

  45. itztiz

    Honestly the team isn’t much better or worse. I seriously doubt with all their skills and abilities Chandler and Gallinari would ever be able to combine to have a good night at the same time, Wilson hot Danilo cold/Danilo hot Wilson charging.

    Mozgov will only be remembered for a Blake Griffin no matter what he does. Felton while a great fit for a D’Antoni system had an unreliable jumpshot that begged teams to play off him in the pick and roll.

    Carmelo is that player that is able to have performances like 1/2 Danilo 1/2 Chandler and still be consistent. We also get Corey Brewer who is the type of versatile tweeners D’Antoni always loves. I’m most excited at the prospect of seeing Landry Fields play a young Rip Hamilton to the real Chauncey Billups.

    I like the new look Knicks my only question is whether this group of talented individuals can play D’Antoniball. Make no mistakes about it this team is a solid team, but they have to adapt painfully or MDA has to use a more traditional half court approach. I think these guys are not a finesse team and D’Antoni has a tough job ahead of him for this season. The future is a bit scary butthe hope of signing a Deron Williams or a Chris Paul this off-season make me forget all my inner-pessimist.

  46. Owen

    Berri has a post up on it. Wins Produced doesn’t think much of any of the players involved in the trade. Melo is a marginally better than Chandler but only the fourth best player on the Nuggets this year after afflalo, Nene and Billups. Gallo is well below average and Chandler around average.

    At the end of the day what we gave up is less important than our opportunity cost, as I said in a previous post. I don’t understand the cap all that well, but the only importance of this trade is whether it costs us the chance to sign Paul or Williams or Howard. And it sure seems like it does.

    The roughly 50% of people who think this was a good trade are about to have some shattered expectations….

  47. jaylamerique

    Owen: Berri has a post up on it. Wins Produced doesn’t think much of any of the players involved in the trade. Melo is a marginally better than Chandler but only the fourth best player on the Nuggets this year after afflalo, Nene and Billups. Gallo is well below average and Chandler around average.
    At the end of the day what we gave up is less important than our opportunity cost, as I said in a previous post. I don’t understand the cap all that well, but the only importance of this trade is whether it costs us the chance to sign Paul or Williams or Howard. And it sure seems like it does.The roughly 50% of people who think this was a good trade are about to have some shattered expectations….  

    I def. know howard wasn’t coming here but this Melo think kinda makes the Paul thing seem possible.

  48. Quicker

    I guess we as Knick fans just always expect the worse outcome given the teams recent history. I still think the team is better than it was before the trade overall. We’ll all just have to wait and see how this plays out between now and 2012.

    I have modest hopes for the team’s playoff run but I felt that way before the trade. If they get some additional length via trade, I’ll feel much better.Turiaf is decent but doesn’t seem to be able to hold up with too many minutes. Sheldon is a PF so that doesn’t help much. Not to many minutes to be had behind Stat. Whatever happened to the center they signed at the end of last season? Barron or something like that?

    Anyway, it’s going to take some time to work this new group into a unit. It should be somewhat easier as superstar 1A is bringing his long time PG with him. Chauncey is good period. Numbers may not bear this out but he is certainly not a downgrade from Felton and Felton is the ONLY guy amongst those traded that I’ll miss. Inconsistency is the key word with Gallo and to a lesser degree Chandler. I think Melo is an BIG upgrade at the 3 and it has to help Stat to have a second or first option like Melo on the court with him.

    Billups ability to hit open shots helps and if our ROY can get a bit more consistent knocking down those spot up jumpers, it should be fun times at the Garden.

    Finally, CP3 will look great in a Knick Uni!

    : )

  49. danvt

    Owen: Melo is a marginally better than Chandler but only the fourth best player on the Nuggets this year after afflalo, Nene and Billups

    This is moronic.

    rama: Now all of you who voted for this trade – 1 out of 3 of you – tell me how we add that other piece in 2012 and field a team. I really want to know. We don’t have the cap space. We won’t be able to add a max contract. We don’t have any tradable assets. TELL ME HOW WE ADD THE MISSING PIECE!!

    It’s not easy to have three max deals in any scenario. Are all three of Pierce, Allen, and KG making the maximum salary? Maybe Amar’e and Melo’s cap #s preclude us from adding Paul, Howard, Deron, etc. Maybe Melo is not as good as those guys and we should have waited it out, as a .500% team (hopefully), through next season, in the hopes that one of those guys would come here.

    I’m sorry, I’m just not that mature. I’ll sit shiva over Gallo until tomorrow night and then I’ll root like hell for the future hall of famer
    we just brought in.

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