Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, July 30, 2014

The Benefit of Acquiring J.R. Smith

According to various reports, the Knicks have acquired former Nuggets and Hornets swingman J.R Smith. It is believed that Smith will sign for a pro-rated amount of the mini mid-level exception, which is 2.5 million dollars.

Smith has spent the season playing for the Zhejiang Golden Bulls in the Chinese Basketball Association. Smith averaged 34.2 points in 32 games for the Golden Bulls. He was one of the few NBA players, along with former Knick Wilson Chandler, that went to China to play during the NBA lockout. Unlike NBA players that played in other countries, players that signed in China were unable to come back to the NBA until their seasons were over in China.

Much has been made about Smith’s behavioral issues that have surfaced throughout his professional career. In spite of those issues, which are legitimate reasons to be concerned about, I think the Smith signing will work out for the Knicks. I think the motivation for playing for a long-term contract will provide Smith with an added incentive to behave while he is a New York Knick.

The addition of Smith will benefit the Knicks in a myriad of ways.

First, the Knicks will get much needed help from behind the 3-point line. Currently, the Knicks are 26th in the NBA in 3-point field goal percentage (.303). What makes that percentage more alarming is the fact that the Knicks are 3rd in the NBA in 3-point attempts per game (22.5). Adding Smith, a career .370 shooter from 3, will bolster a glaring weakness for this Knicks team. With the presence of Carmelo Anthony and Amare Stoudemire, along with the emergence of Jeremy Lin, there will be plenty of opportunities for Smith to show his aptitude for knocking down three-point shots.

Secondly, the acquisition of Smith provides Coach D’Antoni with more flexibility with his lineups. Due to the various injuries and ineffectiveness of certain players in the rotation, D’Antoni has been somewhat constrained in the variation of lineups that he could put on the floor. With the addition of Smith, it is possible that we might see more opportunities where Anthony gets time at the power forward spot, while Stoudemire plays at the center spot. Acquiring Smith will also allow for Landry Fields to get more time at his more natural position, small forward. This added depth is a necessity in this lockout-shortened season, as many teams, including the Knicks have had to deal with various injuries throughout the season thus far. The more options D’Antoni has available to him, the more lineups he will be able to put out on the court to maximize production and keep players fresh for the playoffs.

J.R. Smith will bolster a bench that has struggled to produce offensively throughout this season. Currently, the Knicks’ bench is producing 26.1 points per game on .399 shooting from the field and .324 shooting from 3-point range. Last season, Smith was 6th in Player Efficiency Rating for all bench players (16.4). That number is higher than all of the Knick guards this season excluding Jeremy Lin (24.2). His ability to create offense is a valuable asset to a team that has struggled to score at various points throughout the season. In an ideal world, the Knicks would look for Smith to contribute 20-25 minutes a game off the bench, and to hit the open 3′s that the Knick guards have been missing all season long. The addition of J.R. Smith will mean less minutes for Bill Walker, and most likely Landry Fields and Iman Shumpert.

While Smith is known almost exclusively for his offensive exploits, J.R. has improved considerably in other facets of the game. Last season, Smith finished 4th in all guards in Total Rebounding Percentage (9.4%), and was tied for 16th in Defensive Rating amongst guards (106).

This move is a low-risk, high-reward proposition for the Knicks. If Smith produces, it will provide the Knicks with much needed depth. If he becomes a distraction to the team, the team can simply waive him with no future ramifications on the salary cap.

In order to sign Smith, the Knicks will be forced to cut one of the players currently on the roster. The most likely candidates are either guard Mike Bibby or forward Renardo Balkman. While Balkman would be the obvious choice, releasing Balkman would put the Knicks on the hook for the rest of Balkman’s salary this season, along with next season.

Now, all that’s left is for Baron Davis to get healthy!

147 comments on “The Benefit of Acquiring J.R. Smith

  1. Frank

    The fact that they’re cutting Balkman and keeping Bibby probably says a lot about what they think of Baron’s back.

  2. Jafa

    I agree that adding JR Smith is a low risk, high reward move. A line-up like you proposed featuring Smith, Melo at PF and Amare at C should allow for ample spacing on the floor, as teams would be hesitant to double Melo or Amare when you would be leaving JR open. The fact that we are getting more veteran players back (or signing them) like JR and BD bodes well for us, especially in the playoffs.

    However, the additions of JR and Baron Davis to the rotation would mean less minutes for Shump and Fields, players I really like and would like to see continue to blossom. Also, who are we cutting? I hope its Bibby, as we seem set at the PG spot with Lin, BD and Shump.

  3. Brian Cronin

    The fact that they’re cutting Balkman and keeping Bibby probably says a lot about what they think of Baron’s back.

    True, which is a bit worrisome, in that this team really needs someone not so terrible at the backup point guard position as the drop off when Lin is not on the court is so awful.

    Anyhow, obviously this is good news. One of the best bench players in the league being on the team is always going to be a good thing. And it is not like Balkman was ever going to play for the Knicks (especially when the similarly-skilled Jeffries was rightly ahead of him in the depth chart), so his loss (while stupid) is not a particularly big deal. Hopefully he can go somewhere where he can actually play. Sacramento would be a good spot for him. Golden State, too, as a change of pace back-up for Wright.

  4. ruruland

    Latrell Sprewell was a nut job who thrived in NY. JR loves big stage, feeds off of it. Not sure what the risks are. He makes the Knicks considerably better, as you pointed out. “Chemistry” isn’t an issue when you’re steamrolling the league. I don’t see diminishing returns issue, not in this offense. Need you be reminded that the original SSOL Suns in ’04 , a historically great offense, had Qrich, a slightly above average 3 pt shooter nearly break the NBA record for attempts. We have yet to see the transition game unfurled with Lin. Smith runs and gets open transition 3s. This team is capable of beating Miami or Chicago on a series, IMO.

  5. Grymm

    Just to nitpick, the article states that signing JR is both low-risk/high reward and has a great amount of risk attached to it.

    With regards to the signing, MDA needs 3pt shooters. Last season, Fields, Walker, ExtraE, and TD were draining them. ExtraE is gone and the trifecta of Fields/Walker/TD can barely find the rim from range at the moment. Look at what Novak has brought to the team and he is almost exlusively living on kick out jumpers. Bibby is on the team exclusively for the hope that he might hit an open corner 3 someday.

    As for maturity, he’s a little older now and I assume a season in the no-nonsense CBA will help. It’s not like he was Demarcus Cousins.

  6. PC

    Wait – is the move low-risk or has a great amount of risk attached to it?

    Says both. I think low-risk for the reasons stated above (we can waive him). Not sure what the great risk is.

  7. ruruland

    Jafa:
    I agree that adding JR Smith is a low risk, high reward move.A line-up like you proposed featuring Smith, Melo at PF and Amare at C should allow for ample spacing on the floor, as teams would be hesitant to double Melo or Amare when you would be leaving JR open.The fact that we are getting more veteran players back (or signing them) like JR and BD bodes well for us, especially in the playoffs.

    However, the additions of JR and Baron Davis to the rotation would mean less minutes for Shump and Fields, players I really like and would like to see continue to blossom.Also, who are we cutting?I hope its Bibby, as we seem set at the PG spot with Lin, BD and Shump.

    i think Fields and Jr are maximized at around 30 minutes. Shump, more like 24 26, depending on match-up. I don’t see any reason for their games to be inhibited. Shooting can be contagious, and this takes some of the pressure off them to be perimeter shooters. JR will enhance these guys games just like he will the rest of the team.

  8. Nick C.

    Whith the way the team has unfolded could there be a more perfect player to get? He give them everything that they need.

    Baron was supposed to be 6-8 weeks IIRC. 6-8 weeks from when I don’t remember but it’s mid February and the season started on Christmas so he should have suited up or be suiting up within days by that timetable. The fact that he isn’t and hasn’t been described as being close is damning.

  9. jon abbey

    nice piece!

    Brian, I think Shump Shump will get the backup PG minutes for now, and that’s when we’ll see more ISOs for Melo and Smith.

  10. Grymm

    One could only hope the Knicks keep blowing out the Sacramento’s of this league (there are a few) to free up some minutes for all this depth they seem to have now. I want to see Novak and Jorts on the court at the same time! (thought probably not in a playoff game)

  11. Brian Cronin

    Brian, I think Shump Shump will get the backup PG minutes for now, and that’s when we’ll see more ISOs for Melo and Smith.

    Hopefully. I don’t see why he wasn’t already getting the backup PG minutes. While he’s not really a PG, he surely is better than Bibby.

  12. jon abbey

    if everyone is healthy, they can give players the occasional game off with this ridiculous schedule.

    also, Melo needs to get some credit for his off the court work. not only does it seem that he was the one who pushed D’Antoni to finally give Lin a chance (unless that is PR spin), but he and Smith share an agent and clearly he had something to do with landing him.

  13. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin: Hopefully. I don’t see why he wasn’t already getting the backup PG minutes. While he’s not really a PG, he surely is better than Bibby.

    he got some in the last game and the offense just stopped dead. it’ll be different with Melo and/or Smith alongside him, though.

  14. Jafa

    jon abbey:
    if everyone is healthy, they can give players the occasional game off with this ridiculous schedule.

    also, Melo needs to get some credit for his off the court work. not only does it seem that he was the one who pushed D’Antoni to finally give Lin a chance (unless that is PR spin), but he and Smith share an agent and clearly he had something to do with landing Lin.

    I agree. Kudos to him.

  15. Brian Cronin

    I’ll definitely credit Melo for Smith choosing the Knicks over the Clippers. I’m not crediting him for the Knicks outbidding the Warriors for Tyson Chandler, but Melo is surely the reason Smith wanted to play here over Los Angeles.

  16. SeeWhyDee77

    I wonder…with the impending signing and the emergence of Lin..would Cleveland take Douglas, Balk and Walk for Boobie Gibson? That would give our rotation the perfect blend of shooting and frontcourt effictiveness, regardless of if Davis gets healthy. Cleveland gets frontcourt depth and defense in Balkman, a swing player in walker, and more backcourt depth behind the rookie and Sessions, and a little cap relief. All the while giving us a rotation that includes Chandler, Stat, Melo, Fields, Lin, Boobie, Smith, Jorts. Jeffries, Shump and Novak. That’s alot to juggle especially if Davis gets healthy. But in a truncated season too much depth is not a bad thing. Maybe i’m just a dreamer..

  17. ruruland

    120, 130 pt games or not far off. I know Knicks are heading into rough schedule, but there are many blowouts ahead if you’re concerned about playing time for some of these guys.

  18. Jafa

    @ 17,

    I’d rather not make the trade. Even though those 3 are probably out of the rotation for the foreseeable future, injuries and ineffective play can change all of that. Douglas and Walker can still hit 3 pointers and Douglas and Balkman still give you some defense. You never know when you are going to need that down the road, even if its for a 5-10 minute stretch in a game.

  19. Jafa

    ruruland:
    120, 130 pt games or not far off. I know Knicks are heading into rough schedule, but there are many blowouts ahead if you’re concerned about playing time for some of these guys.

    These are our NY Knicks, not the Miami Heat. There are no guaranteed blowouts for this team.

  20. Geoff Hutchinson Post author

    I think the biggest risk involved is what happens if he doesn’t pan out.

    It’s a low-risk proposition in the sense that he’s easy to get rid of. However, we are banking our hopes on him being able to anchor our bench. If he causes trouble or is ineffective, we are stuck in a position where we can’t really improve the bench.

    Like Brian said, the back up PG spot should be the major concern of this team now. The dropoff between when Lin plays & when he sits, is drastic. That’s why we need to keep hoping for Baron to get healthy. If not, we will need to look into other options. One person I’d like to kick the tires on if Baron can’t go, is Aaron Brooks. Is relatively young, cheap & has had some history of being able to hit jumpshots. He’s more of a scoring 1, but if he’s hitting his shots, he’s better than Bibby already.

  21. kaine

    jr is a great piece:
    -he is perfect for the system
    -he has already played with melo
    -he has enough swagger to fill a swimming pool
    -he has in himself enough talent to be “good Kobe” in a bunch of games per year
    -he is in shape but has not subjected his body to the nba grind this year
    -he has a good size
    -he’s entering in his prime years

    perfect signing if there is one

  22. SeeWhyDee77

    Jafa:
    @ 17,

    I’d rather not make the trade.Even though those 3 are probably out of the rotation for the foreseeable future, injuries and ineffective play can change all of that.Douglas and Walker can still hit 3 pointers and Douglas and Balkman still give you some defense.You never know when you are going to need that down the road, even if its for a 5-10 minute stretch in a game.

    I agree with u mostly..but let’s not forget Fields’ improving defense and not to mention Jorts’ positional defense would be coming back in the post along with Jeffries’ already integral role on defense. What i’m seeing is if a move like that were made it would push guys into roles that would make them more effective. For example: Novak would take on a Matt Bonner type role. Jorts’ return will mean less banging for an already fragile Jeffries..who by the way has fought through alot to stay on the floor without 1 complaint-as well as give Chandler well deserved rest. Smith and Shump will more than adequately replace Walker and Douglas. And even though Bibby seems to have lost his shot, I feel much more comfortable with him at the end of the bench than Douglas because he won’t make the dumb mistakes Douglas has been making. Such a move would make Davis a luxury. And considering his health issues, that might not be a bad thing.

  23. villainx

    Hopefully. I don’t see why he wasn’t already getting the backup PG minutes. While he’s not really a PG, he surely is better than Bibby.

    I see Shump being the back up PG as hurting his development. It magnifies his flaws/weakness, and might lead to him being a bit lost or overcompensating. And putting him in a position where he’s comfortable and can build confidence probably is better in the long run.

    Then again, the way Shump shoots, maybe he doesn’t have a confidence issue.

  24. ess-dog

    I would love to see Balkman get a shot in Sacto, that seemed like a fit to me also.

    I think between Shump, JR and Bibby, we can cover backup pg minutes for now. Didn’t Bibby start for Miami all of last year? I think in a very limited role he could be good enough. And hopefully Baron will come in and take over.

    Suddenly, we look a little deep (not crazy deep, but pretty good): Lin, Shump, JR, Fields, Melo, Amare, and Chandler is a very strong top 7, plus Jorts and Novak have shown flashes of being pretty good. Have to give the FO credit for getting us to this position.

  25. Brian Cronin

    One person I’d like to kick the tires on if Baron can’t go, is Aaron Brooks. Is relatively young, cheap & has had some history of being able to hit jumpshots. He’s more of a scoring 1, but if he’s hitting his shots, he’s better than Bibby already.

    As noted by someone else (Frank?), Brooks is likely a restricted free agent so the Knicks would not be able to get him.

  26. jon abbey

    Geoff Hutchinson:
    I think the biggest risk involved is what happens if he doesn’t pan out.

    It’s a low-risk proposition in the sense that he’s easy to get rid of. However, we are banking our hopes on him being able to anchor our bench. If he causes trouble or is ineffective, we are stuck in a position where we can’t really improve the bench.

    Like Brian said, the back up PG spot should be the major concern of this team now. The dropoff between when Lin plays & when he sits, is drastic. That’s why we need to keep hoping for Baron to get healthy. If not, we will need to look into other options. One person I’d like to kick the tires on if Baron can’t go, is Aaron Brooks. Is relatively young, cheap & has had some history of being able to hit jumpshots. He’s more of a scoring 1, but if he’s hitting his shots, he’s better than Bibby already.

    but that’s not a risk, the risk would be in not signing him and sticking with what they had. there are almost no quality impact options available midseason, and especially none who fit NY’s needs nearly as well as Smith.

    and Aaron Brooks, like Wilson Chandler, is a restricted free agent, not unrestricted, so both will likely return to their previous teams. anyway, even if Baron never gets healthy (very unlikely IMO), trying to upgrade from Shump Shump for 15 minutes a game at backup PG is hardly a big need. he’s spectacular on D, and the offense will take care of itself now that Smith is on board.

  27. Geoff Hutchinson Post author

    Brian Cronin: As noted by someone else (Frank?), Brooks is likely a restricted free agent so the Knicks would not be able to get him.

    I completely forgot about that. Don’t know why I assumed that they didn’t tender him an offer. My apologies.

  28. ruruland

    I honestly feel this will be the best team MDA has had once they’ve shared enough reps come early April

  29. jon abbey

    ruruland:
    I honestly feel this will be the best team MDA has had once they’ve shared enough reps come early April

    Chandler certainly gives them a dimension his Suns teams never had.

  30. Degree_Absolute

    JR Smith is just a rental, right? Kind of a foster/don’t get attached situation for Knicks fan?

  31. SeeWhyDee77

    ruruland:
    I honestly feel this will be the best team MDA has had once they’ve shared enough reps come early April

    Agreed..and with that rotation arguably the most dangerous team in the EC if everyone stays healthy. Definitely a team no one would wanna see in the playoffs. Has anybody even acknowleged that this is the 1st team D’Antoni has had that actually plays defense? So now he can theoretically play his vaunted system and still have a team that gets stops when it counts. Great work by the front office.

  32. jon abbey

    SeeWhyDee77: Agreed..and with that rotation arguably the most dangerous team in the EC if everyone stays healthy. Definitely a team no one would wanna see in the playoffs. Has anybody even acknowleged that this is the 1st team D’Antoni has had that actually plays defense? So now he can theoretically play his vaunted system and still have a team that gets stops whenit counts. Great work by the front office.

    we’ll see how good defensively we still are once everyone is back.

  33. er

    Wow knicks are kinda stacked

    Lin/bd/Jr
    Fields/shump/Jr
    Melo/fields/Novak /Jr/walker
    Mare/jefferies/Novak /walker
    Chandler jefferies jorts Jordan

    wow
    And u still got td and bibbys corpse

  34. Frank

    Synergy only goes back to 2009-10 but looking at the PHX 2 guard during 9-10 and 10-11 (J-Rich and Vince Carter), roughly 3/4 of all the 3 point attempts came on spot-up shots and in transition, which are high-quality open shots for the most part.

    In 09-10, JR shot 44.6% from 3 on spot-up 3′s and 41.9% from 3 on transition 3′s. Over the years that I can look at on Synergy, his 3 point percentage is lower than it should be because he takes a fair amount in isolation and as the PNR ball handler. Presumably he will not be the primary ball handler much in this offense, and will not be the guy going iso, so his 3 point shot distribution should look much more like J-Rich and Carter.

    In other words, mucho made 3′s.

  35. ruruland

    you add a Nash-impersonator and JR Smith to arguably the best front court in the game, allowing shump and fields to fit into the seams like the glue players they are… Just sick. Not sure people are wrapping their heads around how good this team is going to be…I’m still having troubles with it. Melo is pissed! Just wait to see what he does this second half. Amar’e hasn’t gotten going yet(and he”s going to take off soon in the PnR) you’ve got JR Smith in a contract year !!! And this team hasn’t even started running yet (where Shump can start eating, too). It’s almost too much too soon. I said when this team was getting murdered that everything was in place for a mid-season turnaround where guys would feed off the fear and frustration energy of the first part of the season. There is a blowback deal, I’ve seen it too many times. This is what crazy runs are made of,I just don’t recal a scenario where everything fell into place quite like this. It’s a little serendipity but it’s more about how these new puzzle pieces turned a scattered jigsaw that really made no sense into mind-bogglingly beautiful art. Hyperbolic, getting ahead of myself……knock on wood I’m telling you to cherish these next few months they will be amazing

  36. jon abbey

    let’s see Lin do it for a little while longer before we say this is a better team than the best of those Phoenix ones, they had a couple of 60+ win seasons.

  37. ruruland

    Frank:
    Synergy only goes back to 2009-10 but looking at the PHX 2 guard during 9-10 and 10-11 (J-Rich and Vince Carter), roughly 3/4 of all the 3 point attempts came on spot-up shots and in transition, which are high-quality open shots for the most part.

    In 09-10, JR shot 44.6% from 3 on spot-up 3?s and 41.9% from 3 on transition 3?s. Over the years that I can look at on Synergy, his 3 point percentage is lower than it should be because he takes a fair amount in isolation and as the PNR ball handler.Presumably he will not be the primary ball handler much in this offense, and will not be the guy going iso, so his 3 point shot distribution should look much more like J-Rich and Carter.

    In other words, mucho made 3?s.

    </bloResponsesI

    I knew that was true. Keep it up with the Synergy stats I haven't convinced myself to get a subscription yet!

    44.6 on spot up 3s. Damn I wasn't sure he was quite that good. How does that stack up with Ray Allen?

  38. Nick C.

    ruruland: you add a Nash-impersonator and JR Smith to arguably the best front court in the game, allowing shump and fields to fit into the seams like the glue players they are… Just sick. Not sure people are wrapping their heads around how good this team is going to be…I’m still having troubles with it. Melo is pissed! Just wait to see what he does this second half. Amar’e hasn’t gotten going yet(and he”s going to take off soon in the PnR) you’ve got JR Smith in a contract year !!! And this team hasn’t even started running yet (where Shump can start eating, too). It’s almost too much too soon. I said when this team was getting murdered that everything was in place for a mid-season turnaround where guys would feed off the fear and frustration energy of the first part of the season. There is a blowback deal, I’ve seen it too many times. This is what crazy runs are made of,I just don’t recal a scenario where everything fell into place quite like this. It’s a little serendipity but it’s more about how these new puzzle pieces turned a scattered jigsaw that really made no sense into mind-bogglingly beautiful art. Hyperbolic, getting ahead of myself……knock on wood I’m telling you to cherish these next few months they will be amazing

    Do you think the feel is quite the same if Lin doesn’t come out of nowhere? Because to paraphrase T-1000 Lin allows everyone to play their natural position.

    Otherwise I agree, just not that it was foreseeable because nobody could claim to have expected Lin to play like this or any PG on the roster other than maybe Baron and that would have been a stretch.

  39. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    let’s see Lin do it for a little while longer before we say this is a better team than the best of those Phoenix ones, they had a couple of 60+ win seasons.

    no doubt, its just hard to imagine big time regression with the pieces that will start to surround him. I don’t even know what his floor is right now? Raymond Felton.

    But what if he gets better? What if he starts clicking with Amar’e and Melo? The floor spacing is only going to get better. He’s going to have defenders tied up on the wings, a less congested paint……..and as I said before he hasn’t started running yet

  40. Frank O.

    Dear Mr. Walsh:
    Aside from one bad draft – the guards of which we will not speak in hopes of not provoking a jon abbey tirade against you – this team we have today is in part due to your ability to get the Knicks out of the cap hell they were in. A thousand thank yous.

    Dear new GM: Thanks you for landing my favorite Knick, Tyson Chandler. The Knicks without him would have played crappy defense and simply tried to outscore other teams every night. Brilliant landing Tyson.

    Dear Mike D., and Mr. Woodson:
    You are an effective duo. Mike has been incredibly adaptive, and now our defense is one of best in the game.

    I simply can’t believe how strong this team is starting to look and I can’t wait for the Heat, who also are playing amazingly well. The East is back.

  41. Gideon Zaga

    Man the Knicks really do a good job of recruiting unlike other teams, Jamal Crawford just attributed to it that the Big players
    on the Knicks called him a lot at the start of the season when they wanted to bring him in.

  42. Gideon Zaga

    How about a dear. MELO, Lin or Amare.

    Frank O.:
    Dear Mr. Walsh:
    Aside from one bad draft – the guards of which we will not speak in hopes of not provoking a jon abbey tirade against you – this team we have today is in part due to your ability to get the Knicks out of the cap hell they were in. A thousand thank yous.

    Dear new GM: Thanks you for landing my favorite Knick, Tyson Chandler. The Knicks without him would have played crappy defense and simply tried to outscore other teams every night. Brilliant landing Tyson.

    Dear Mike D., and Mr. Woodson:
    You are an effective duo. Mike has been incredibly adaptive, and now our defense is one of best in the game.

    I simply can’t believe how strong this team is starting to look and I can’t wait for the Heat, who also are playing amazingly well. The East is back.

  43. ruruland

    Nick C.: Do you think the feel is quite the same if Lin doesn’t come out of nowhere? Because to paraphrase T-1000 Lin allows everyone to play their natural position.

    Otherwise I agree, just not that it was foreseeable because nobody could claim to have expected Lin to play like this or any PG on the roster other than maybe Baron and that would have been a stretch.

    no it’s not even close. I figured Baron would come back, give league average play, but allow everyone else to slide back to their natural spots. I thought that would make them quite formidable.

    Lin takes to a level, should he continue playing similar to what he did in the first 7 games ( and at this point there”s no reason to believe he won’t) that I’m not sure any1 comprehends.

    You could honestly be looking at top 10 production at each position. That’s unheard of.

  44. jon abbey

    ruruland, people on Twitter say that Smith shot 47% on spot up 3s last year, he may still be getting better.

  45. ruruland

    Gideon Zaga:
    Man the Knicks really do a good job of recruiting unlike other teams, Jamal Crawford just attributed to it that the Big playerson the Knicks called him a lot at the start of the seasonwhen they wanted to bring him in.

    did u read this story in the Portland paper today about how A Knicks rep basically kidnapped JR after he landed in LAX? It’s a must read.

    Del Negro thought he had JR up until the Knicks whisped him away. Wild stuff. Dolans dollars put to good use in this instance

  46. Spree8nyk8

    It’s weird, it’s like someone told god all of the knicks weaknesses and he threw a handful of darts.

    No pg…check
    weak bench…check
    no chemistry…check

    also lost in the events of the last two weeks is that MDA has actually coached pretty well also, his rotations have been better since the Celtic debacle, he doesn’t let things linger for as long as he was. He seems to be drawing up better plays out of timeouts (novak tying 3 for example). Overall everything seems to be on track, the biggest shame is that if we didn’t sacrifice 23 games of the short season who knows where we could finish seedwise. But hey, compared to where we were I’ll take it all day and just hope that it built some character. 36 games now to polish this up and see what we have.

  47. njasdjdh

    villainx: ee with u mostly..but let’s not forget Fields’ improving defense and not to mention Jorts’ positional d

    Fun fact, Shump averages more assists while playing the 2 than he does while playing the 1 and with considerably less turnovers. (from 82games.com)

  48. Scorpio Dragon

    Last year JR had 85% of his made 3PTs assisted.

    And as of chucking from beyond 30 feet. The only instances I see are end of quarter situations.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=smithjr01&year_id=2011

    Some of the other shots in the 25-30 ft range I wonder are end of the shot clock situations. Anybody have some data on that? I was a bit worried that Smith was a chucker, but my first cursory glance at his stats aren’t really bearing that out.

    I’d also be curious to see how many of his 3PA were off the dribble or after 2 seconds of holding the ball.

    His mid-range game seems solid not stellar (.497 from the field) but the trend there seems to be he does that off the dribble. But he takes quite a few shots at the rim. Almost as many shots as he takes at mid-range and makes them at almost a 60% clip (.596).

    Smith is definitely a good player and can really help the team out from what I’m seeing right now.

  49. Eazy B

    Man this line-up is intoxicating on paper. I’m in the same boat as y’all – don’t want to get ahead of myself, but it ain’t that much of a stretch to be talking juggernaut status here. Really, unless things go wrong in the worst way, how could this not be one of the best teams in the league?

    So in all likelihood, it seems clear that JR Smith isn’t retainable past this season – should the same be said about B Diddy?

  50. Frank O.

    Adrian Wojnarowski @WojYahooNBA
    The Knicks are offering J.R. Smith a second year player option of $2.5M that could make deal worth $4.3M, league sources tell Y!

  51. Frank O.

    Howard Beck @HowardBeckNYT
    The NBA in 2012: JR Smith tweets that he’s signing w/Knicks and Balkman tweets he’s been cut, all before Knicks can announce anything

  52. Frank

    @ruruland –

    Re: Ray Allen – these #s are ridiculous from 10-11:
    46.5% from 3 overall
    on 170 spot-up 3′s – 49.4%
    on 142 off-screen 3′s – 41.5%
    on 74 transition 3′s – 48.6%

    Man can he shoot.

    JR’s #s – maybe I transcribed them wrong last time:
    39.3% from 3 overall
    On 47 iso 3′s – 29.8%
    on 163 spot-up 3′s – 46.6%
    On 26 off-screen 3′s – 42.3%
    On 43 transition 3′s – 41.9%

    If JR can resist the pull-up 3 in iso, his #s would be MUCH better. In other words, don’t give him the ball at the end of the clock.

  53. Brian Cronin

    So in all likelihood, it seems clear that JR Smith isn’t retainable past this season – should the same be said about B Diddy?

    I think Baron Davis’ current open market value is a lot closer to the $2 million Bi-Annual Exception than Smith, so the Knicks might have a chance at Davis next season. Not to mention the fact that Davis has already made a fortune in the league, while Smith has only had one MLE level contract in his career so far.

  54. ruruland

    Scorpio Dragon:
    Last year JR had 85% of his made 3PTs assisted.

    And as of chucking from beyond 30 feet.The only instances I see are end of quarter situations.

    http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/plus/shooting.cgi?player_id=smithjr01&year_id=2011

    Some of the other shots in the 25-30 ft range I wonder are end of the shot clock situations.Anybody have some data on that?I was a bit worried that Smith was a chucker, but my first cursory glance at his stats aren’t really bearing that out.

    I’d also be curious to see how many of his 3PA were off the dribble or after 2 seconds of holding the ball.

    His mid-range game seems solid not stellar (.497 from the field) but the trend there seems to be he does that off the dribble.But he takes quite a few shots at the rim.Almost as many shots as he takes at mid-range and makes them at almost a 60% clip (.596).

    Smith is definitely a good player and can really help the team out from what I’m seeing right now.

    appreciate the verification. Spend 15 minutes watching JR video today to see some of the deep 3s he takes. Best range in NBA but hurts his overal percentage from an eye test perspective. Open 3s just behind line are money. Gets to rim but has low ft rate cuz he doesn’t show contact well…. Poor ft shooter ( stands half foot behind ft line) those three things can be corrected somewhat his offensive effeciency would be amazing. He has a fantastic step back move to create space when he uses dribble, GK hated those shots though. Doesn’t really hold ball much. Has iso skills of u need them.

    Some of his inside shots come off post ups where he can be pretty good vs smaller players. Has a floater when he can’t get to rim, amazing acrobat at rim ( check out his spin…

  55. hoolahoop

    Frank O.:
    Dear Mr. Walsh:
    Aside from one bad draft – the guards of which we will not speak in hopes of not provoking a jon abbey tirade against you – this team we have today is in part due to your ability to get the Knicks out of the cap hell they were in. A thousand thank yous.

    Dear new GM: Thanks you for landing my favorite Knick, Tyson Chandler. The Knicks without him would have played crappy defense and simply tried to outscore other teams every night. Brilliant landing Tyson.

    Dear Mike D., and Mr. Woodson:
    You are an effective duo. Mike has been incredibly adaptive, and now our defense is one of best in the game.

    I simply can’t believe how strong this team is starting to look and I can’t wait for the Heat, who also are playing amazingly well. The East is back.

    Who would have thunk it?

  56. Juany8

    This is why I stayed optimistic all year, and I don’t even think Lin has been as good the last seven games as everyone thinks he has. I honestly think if we took someone like Kyle Lowry and gave him this much freedom to do what he wanted on offense, he’d put up the same numbers, only with defense, rebounds and less turnovers. Competent guards are not that hard to pick up cheaply, while players capable of being primary scoring options and great centers like Chandler are. I don’t think we’ll be dominant, because there are still a lot of pieces to integrate before the playoffs, but the fact that we’ll be getting a few fresh bodies when everyone has been exhausted is pretty fantastic.

    At the same time, I think we have as good a chance of winning the title as any team outside the top 3 (Miami, Chicago, OKC) and we have legitimate matchup advantages against both the Eastern teams. Carmelo, Amar’e, Chandler are clear upgrades over Deng, Boozer, and Noah while JR and Shumpert should at least be able to keep up with Rose. Chandler is simply going to feast inside against Miami’s nonexistent front court, much like he did with Dallas where he was their second best player during the Finals. Carmelo has generally stepped up against Lebron too, and unlike Miami or Chicago, we no longer have any position on the floor where we play offensive liabilities.

  57. ruruland

    Frank:
    @ruruland –

    Re: Ray Allen – these #s are ridiculous from 10-11:
    46.5% from 3 overall
    on 170 spot-up 3?s – 49.4%
    on 142 off-screen 3?s – 41.5%
    on 74 transition 3?s – 48.6%

    Man can he shoot.

    JR’s #s – maybe I transcribed them wrong last time:
    39.3% from 3 overall
    On 47 iso 3?s – 29.8%
    on 163 spot-up 3?s – 46.6%
    On 26 off-screen 3?s – 42.3%
    On 43 transition 3?s – 41.9%

    If JR can resist the pull-up 3 in iso, his #s would be MUCH better. In other words, don’t give him the ball at the end of the clock.

    Wow. What a year Allen had. Really amazing. Not sure how much closer a 5 year split would look.

  58. ruruland

    hoolahoop: Do you actually believe the stuff you write?

    friendly bet they’ll be top 3 in point differential here on out, if that”s not dominant let me know.

  59. hoolahoop

    Geoff Hutchinson:
    I think the biggest risk involved is what happens if he doesn’t pan out.

    It’s a low-risk proposition in the sense that he’s easy to get rid of. However, we are banking our hopes on him being able to anchor our bench. If he causes trouble or is ineffective, we are stuck in a position where we can’t really improve the bench.

    Like Brian said, the back up PG spot should be the major concern of this team now. The dropoff between when Lin plays & when he sits, is drastic. That’s why we need to keep hoping for Baron to get healthy. If not, we will need to look into other options. ……

    Although, for the reasons you outline, it appears to be low risk, but it’s not. This is actually a high risk move.
    Logic would dictate that if it doesn’t work out the knicks would simply waive Smith or simply not play him.
    Well, that’s not how it works in the real world. If Smith’s presence has a negative impact, it might not seem so obvious that it’s him. For example, the chemistry may be disrupted, but Smith may be playing great. Or, his selfishness on the court may disrupt the cohesiveness the team, but Smith may be making timely shots, so people would not look to him blame. These are just two simplistic examples of how it’s not as easy as “we’ll just cut him if it doesn’t work out”. Just because they start losing they are not going to point to Smith as the reason…even though he may be the reason.

    Maybe this is a good acquisition, maybe not. I’m not sure. But, now that the knicks are clicking on all cylinders, playing great as a team, are strong in every position, have bench depth and have great chemistry with the godsend of Lin, why fix something that’s not broken?

  60. Brian Cronin

    The three-point shooting is fairly broken. Shump and Fields are awesome, but neither of them are three-point shooters. The Knicks need a three-point shooter, and Smith is one of the best in the biz.

  61. Brian Cronin

    By the way, this is, of course, all predicated on Melo agreeing to be a Rich Man’s Joe Johnson from the 2004-05 Suns. If he is, then the Knicks are in very nice shape. I think he will, but I do admit I’ll have to see it first to believe it for sure.

  62. hoolahoop

    Brian Cronin:
    The three-point shooting is fairly broken. Shump and Fields are awesome, but neither of them are three-point shooters. The Knicks need a three-point shooter, and Smith is one of the best in the biz.

    I hear you, but I feel good every time the ball kicks out to an open Novak.

  63. Spree8nyk8

    Nick C.:
    I’m afraid to say anything optomistic lest I jinx things.

    nothing to fear, I already watched Empire Strikes Back today….

  64. hoolahoop

    Brian Cronin:
    The three-point shooting is fairly broken. Shump and Fields are awesome, but neither of them are three-point shooters. The Knicks need a three-point shooter, and Smith is one of the best in the biz.

    I don’t really know his game, but from highlight I saw he’s also extremely athletic going to the hole.

    My only concern is chemistry.

  65. njasdjdh

    Brian Cronin:
    And as noted a few times already, wow, Lin/Smith/Fields/Melo/Amare’e wouid practically be unguardable.

    For us or the other team? I get what you’re saying but as soon as I saw the lineup the first thing that came to mind was “bad defense.”

  66. Ben R

    For this to work we need to use our newly acquired depth to cut all our starters minutes not just Walker, Bibby and Shumpert. We can now play our starters 30-32 minutes a game and keep them fresh and use our depth to fill in.

    Also I’m a bit sad about Balkman too I hope he finds a good situation he is a talented basketball player if given a chance to shine.

  67. Will the Thrill

    If JR is a perfect match for us, is there any way that we could keep him for years to come? Or at least longer than just this year?

  68. Brian Cronin

    I don’t really know his game, but from highlight I saw he’s also extremely athletic going to the hole.

    My only concern is chemistry.

    Oh yeah, he is also good at that, too, but I imagine the Knicks really want him for the outside ball. I mean, sure, the chemistry will be affected, but look at it this way…

    A. It’s not like Shump and Fields aren’t going to still play. It’s Walker who is being outright buried, and really, who cares? Walker has talent, to be sure, but Smith has more.

    B. This is strictly a one-year rental, so in a lot of ways, he lets Shump and Fields develop more for next season. Hopefully they can each improve on their outside shot.

  69. Brian Cronin

    For us or the other team? I get what you’re saying but as soon as I saw the lineup the first thing that came to mind was “bad defense.”

    That’s the best thing – they can always switch in to their defenders when they need help.

  70. Brian Cronin

    If JR is a perfect match for us, is there any way that we could keep him for years to come? Or at least longer than just this year?

    I mean, anything’s possible, of course, but the odds are extremely slim that he wouldn’t make a good deal more than the $2.5 million the Knicks can offer him next season. And since the MLE is likely going to have to be used on Lin, it is highly unlikely they can keep Smith.

  71. flossy

    JR Smith is a knucklehead who needs to be on a short leash because he’ll shoot no matter what, but when he’s on he will carry the team offensively and open up the floor for others with his range.

    Knucklehead or not, I don’t think we need to worry about him “ruining” the chemistry. Chemistry comes when you win. 3 weeks ago everyone on the team looked like they wanted to kill themselves, now they’re best friends.

    JR was part of the feel-good post-trade Nuggets team that developed insta-chemistry, it’s not like he’s a sociopathic life-ruiner or Gilbert Arenas or what have you. He’s a dumbass and a terrible driver. For $2.5 mil, for 24mpg off the bench, who cares. He’s a hell of a lot better than Balkman or Bill Walker, and it’s not like having someone slightly crazy ruins your chances of a title (see: Artest, DeShawn Stevenson).

  72. hoolahoop

    Things look too good. Remember, we’re knicks fans.
    If this team plays well together (with Melo and Smith) this may be the most exciting thirty five games in knicks history. The schedule is ferocious after tonight.

  73. ww007

    I think this is a fantastic signing. Fills the most glaring weakness of the team right now (3-point shooting by the guards). D’Antoni’s system relies heavily on 3-point shooting, and for some reason, none of our guards this year have been able to shoot it well. I agree it’s definitely a low risk / high reward situation.

    As for all the talk about Melo not fitting in, that’s such hogwash. He didn’t WANT to handle the ball this much as a point-forward. You think he doesn’t salivate at all the open 15-18 footers he’s gonna get now with Lin running the show? It’s probably gonna take some time to build chemistry but you gotta believe this is gonna work out in the long run.

    Speaking of Lin, wow, this guy says all the right things. So humble and team-oriented outwardly, but man, this guy’s a cold-blooded assassin. Witness the 38 he dropped on the Lakers in a marquee game, when people were saying he hadn’t played against a good defensive team yet. And they way he shoved aside Kobe’s arm when Kobe was trying to show him who’s boss. And of course the game-winner against Toronto.

    And he’s right about his stats: once all the pieces are back, his scoring is gonna go down but his assists are gonna go way up. I think he’s gonna average about 16-18 ppg and about 12 assist per game.

    This team has all the pieces now. Can’t wait to see what it can do once everybody is in sync…

    Just an aside, I find it funny how before the season began, D’Antoni was adamant that Woodson was not a “defensive coordinator” like in football. Yet with Woodson huddling up the players on the last defensive possession in the T’wolves game, I don’t think he could be more like a football DC lol. But kudos to MDA for acknowledging his weakness, albeit not outwardly so that he could keep some semblance of pride.

  74. ephus

    If Smith plays within the team concept, this could be great. I still fear that he is a taller Nate Robinson – a freelance offense-only gunner.

  75. ww007

    Brian Cronin:
    For what it is worth, D’Antoni was likely protecting his brother, not himself, since his brother was in charge of defense before Woodson.

    Ah yes, nepotism at its finest. I think I missed the whole back-story on that…whatever happened to his brother anyway? Is he still wuth the team? If so, I wonder why they couldn’t have done this (hire a competent defensive coach) sooner and just give D’Antoni’s bro another position in the first place.

  76. Mulligan

    I’m skeptical of Woodson’s impact on the defensive end. I mean, he never really had a reputation as a defensive mastermind a la Van Gundy, Thibs or Frank. Tyson Chandler, on the other hand, is like having a defensive coach on the floor with the team. Much bigger impact IMHO. Plus you can’t discount Shump Shump & Jeffries. Can you imagine this team if Frank hadn’t been hired by the Pistons? Actual defensive rotations, etc? Yowza.

  77. Brian Cronin

    I generally agree that Woodson’s impact has been overblown. Heck, you could almost argue that they are succeeding despite his often foolish over-switching.

  78. chrisk06811

    Tyler Murray: Bottom line: Bill Walker’s minutes now belong to JR Smith. Hooray!

    I don’t know about that. Walker’s minutes are going to Melo. I’d say JR will take Novak’s minutes, and some of Shumps. The question is will Shump minutes at the 1….if not, he sits. I think it looks like this:

    1: Lim 33, Shump 15
    2: Landry: 15, JR: 25, Shump: 8
    3: Melo: 33, Landry: 15
    4: Amare: 33, JJ: 15
    5. Chandler: 33, Jorts: 10, JJ: 5

    that goes 9 deep; Lim, Melo Amare Chander at 33 each, Landry at 30, Smith at 25, Shump at 23, Jeffries at 15, Jorts at 10.

    If Davis ever comes back, Shump ends up sitting. there’s no other way.

  79. bobneptune

    Brian Cronin:
    [STRIKE]I’ll definitely credit Melo[/STRIKE] for Smith choosing the Knicks over the Clippers. I’m not crediting him for the Knicks outbidding the Warriors for Tyson Chandler, but Melo is surely the reason Smith wanted to play here over Los Angeles.

    fyp

    2.5 million vs 1.5 million pro rated is the reason he chose the knicks over the paper clips.

    or , as the late george young used to say, “when they say it isn’t about the money…. it is always about the money!”

  80. art vandelay

    Even if a fully healthy baron returns at some point and is productive, I can’t imagine any scenario wherein Shump doesn’t get some substantial playing time…he is far too valuable on the defensive end to leave him permanently affixed to the bench….against dynamic scorers like LBJ or Wade we will surely need his D.

  81. EB

    chrisk06811: 1: Lim 33, Shump 15
    2: Landry: 15, JR: 25, Shump: 8
    3: Melo: 33, Landry: 15
    4: Amare: 33, JJ: 15
    5. Chandler: 33, Jorts: 10, JJ: 5

    I think your overestimating the amount of playing time that lin should receive. I know Dantoni said he was going to ride lin, but he has been looking very tired at the end of games. With Melo and Jr coming I doubt Lin will be getting thirty minutes a game if it can be helped. Melo and probably Jr will be able to maintain the offense when Lin is out.

    In short JR’s minutes will come from Lin and Shump so that they don’t hit the wall as hard.

  82. EB

    As far as BD goes I’d say we should assume he won’t contribute this year. A back injury is devastating and takes a long time to recover. Look at Gallo. I’d say he hasn’t gotten over his back injury until this year maybe last.

  83. Gideon Zaga

    How quickly we forget how Walker single handedly kept us in the game against Miami, with all the 3 point shooting. Guess NY is like that and now we dont even know who ______. is anymore.

  84. Frank O.

    The one beauty of this team, from what I can see is that they can throw so many looks at a team.
    they have a strong defensive lineup, an overwhelming offensive lineup, a mixed and matched lineup.
    they can go inside, and outside. They can play half court and run.
    they can play pick and roll, and they have guys who can isolate.

    there is just so much versatility in this lineup and Smith with his outside shooting and ability to drive gives the Knicks another weapon.

    And overall, this is a young roster. I don’t know how the Knicks’ opponents can hope to deal with the Knicks front line.

  85. Gideon Zaga

    EXACTLY!!!

    Frank O.:
    The one beauty of this team, from what I can see is that they can throw so many looks at a team.
    they have a strong defensive lineup, an overwhelming offensive lineup, a mixed and matched lineup.
    they can go inside, and outside. They can play half court and run.
    they can play pick and roll, and they have guys who can isolate.

    there is just so much versatility in this lineup and Smith with his outside shooting and ability to drive gives the Knicks another weapon.

    And overall, this is a young roster. I don’t know how the Knicks’ opponents can hope to deal with the Knicks front line.

  86. max fisher-cohen

    jon abbey:

    Chandler certainly gives them a dimension his Suns teams never had.

    I’ve wondered about this: How dominant would the suns have been if they had a guy like Chandler instead of Amar’e? I’m not knocking Amar’e; it’s just that era was dominated by two big centers, and Amar’e is not the best defender. If the suns had a great pick and roll guy who could slow down guys like Duncan and Shaq, I think they could have won a couple titles.

    Ben R: We can now play our starters 30-32 minutes a game and keep them fresh and use our depth to fill in.

    I guess MDA has never had real depth, but he’s also always had a very tight rotation. I cringe a bit at his explanations for playing starters so many minutes — He usually says something like, “I don’t look at minutes. If they guy looks tired, I take him out.”

    As far as Smith goes, I think it could end up working out really well. I mean, SSOL is all about taking the first shot available. JR can totally adhere to that philosophy, and the system should get him decent looks. He won’t hesitate on semi-open threes like Fields does.

    What I’m probably most excited about is seeing a lineup of Lin, Smith, Novak, Anthony, Stoudemire. That is an offensive lineup for the ages. I think per 48 mins, it might score about 150 points. Of course, it probably gives up 140, but that’s some fun basketball.

    When Harrellson comes back, he can replace Novak in that lineup; you can still spread the floor quite well and run the floor. People have been ‘meh’ about Harrellson’s perimeter shooting, but he looked pretty damn comfortable before he got hurt. In Jorts’ last 7 games before he got hurt he was 11/24 from three, or 45.8%.

  87. villainx

    The way the team is shaping up, it’s beyond imagining from a couple of short years ago. It’s not gift trade of Gasol, but if everything that transpire ain’t a gift, it’s something equally wonderful.

  88. Juany8

    Honestly know that the team is starting to have legitimate 3 point threats, running the offense through Anthony and JR when Jeremy sits isn’t a bad idea. The biggest issue other than point guard we had earlier in the season is that no one could make a jump shot, if you play Carmelo with JR and Shumpert, both could play off the ball while Melo does his thing. Of course this is better only in stretches, Lin should be setting up the offense most of the time, but now we have 3 people who can dribble the ball under pressure and run offensive sets. If Baron Davis comes back we’ll have 4, if which a massive upgrade from a few weeks ago when Melo was attempting to run everything himself for the first time in his career.

  89. bobneptune

    Juany8:
    Competent guards are not that hard to pick up cheaply, while players capable of being primary scoring options and great centers like Chandler are.

    so “competent” is now defined as a point guard averaging 23 points and 9.2 assists /36 min with a per of 24.3 and a ws/48 of .187? nice way to construct an argument. guys with stats like this often fall out of the sky into your lap from the waiver wire, right?

    the knicks got struck by lightning…. well played!

    and just for the record…. to stumble into a “competent” guard like kyle lowry, you need a first round draft choice…. which the knicks don’t possess this year and only have one the next 3 years.

    and…. as to chandler being a “great center”, i’ll just quote inigo montoya and say i no think you know what that word means.

  90. JK47

    So, first you make the argument that Lin is far more than a “competent” point guard because he has a .187 WS/48, yet in same post you say Chandler is not so great despite his WS/48 of .248?

  91. Brian Cronin

    So, first you make the argument that Lin is far more than a “competent” point guard because he has a .187 WS/48, yet in same post you say Chandler is not so great despite his WS/48 of .248?

    Forget it, JK47, it’s Chinatown.

  92. bobneptune

    JK47:
    So, first you make the argument that Lin is far more than a “competent” point guard because he has a .187 WS/48, yet in same post you say Chandler is not so great despite his WS/48 of .248?

    i make the argument that lin (as he has played thus far as a starter) has been several orders of magnitude better than competent. i only use stats because that is the only currency that seems good here. the eyeball test and the won/lost records also concur.

    chandler is far better than a competent center, he is a very good overall center. he understands his limitations and exclusively shoots dunks and layups with very low usage, so his advanced stats are better than his play.

    he is 12th in total rebounds and 15th in blocked shots. that doesn’t equate to a “great center” especially when you consider he has zero offensive game. marcin bleepin gortat has more boards and blocks for christ’s sake. and please don’t tell me how he’s a great lock down post defender, because nicola pekovic ran him over the other night in minny. that was a total mismatch on the block. he got mauled.

    chandler is a fine nba center far better than competent, but if you consider him great, then i suggest you are disrespecting great players.

    look in the dictionary and see if competent and great have their pictures next to each other.

  93. Richmond County

    A second bonafide shooter is going to help so much when Lin sits down. Having Novak and Smith to spread the floor is going to clear up so much space for Shump to penetrate and also creates an easy outlet (shooter on either side) for him to kick out to if he gets stopped. This is really going to help simplify the game for our favorite kinda/sorta backup point.

  94. Juany8

    Honestly? I don’t think Lin is much better than Goran Dragic, who the Rockets also had ahead of Lin in their lineup. And JR and Baron Davis came to the Knicks for nothing basically because they were the Knicks and they wanted to play here. So did Felton, who looks a lot worse outside D’Antoni’s offense. Lin isn’t as great as his numbers make him seem, but he is a solid starter, which is a massive upgrade from Toney Douglas, the worst player who got minutes and shots in the NBA, and Mike Bibby, the worst player in the NBA period.

    If Lin continues to play like a star then yes that is an incredible find for the front office. He’ll probably come back down to earth and average around 14-7, which is exactly what this team needs to win games when everyone’s healthy. I also don’t think you realize how much having a dominant defensive center who is competent on the offensive end helps a team. Look how happy OKC was to get Perkins. Chandler is probably the 4th best center in the NBA right now, after Bynum, Howard, and Gasol, and right now someone who can both defend the low post against guys like Howard and stop a pick and roll involving someone like Lebron is the rarest commodity in the NBA. Chandler simply makes defense and rebounding easier for a team in the way few individual players are capable of. The fact that he can be an solid offensive player makes him amazing overall.

  95. JK47

    The Knicks were a horrible defensive rebounding team and a horrible overall defensive team before Chandler got here. Now they’re an excellent defensive rebounding team and an above-average defensive team. Maybe it’s because of Mike Woodson’s awesome switching schemes, or maybe it’s because Tyson Chandler is pretty good.

  96. villainx

    Having Novak and Smith to spread the floor is going to clear up so much space for Shump to penetrate and also creates an easy outlet (shooter on either side) for him to kick out to if he gets stopped.

    Or Shump just brings the ball up and pops a 3 pointer 4 out of 6 times. That would be annoying.

  97. Doug

    Juany8: Honestly? I don’t think Lin is much better than Goran Dragic, who the Rockets also had ahead of Lin in their lineup

    BOO! SHUN THE NONBELIEVER *throws heirloom tomato*

  98. xduckshoex

    I’m not going to bother doing a full dispersal of minutes, but here are the things I would like to see:

    Lin and Amare on the floor together most of the time. It’s the only way Amare is going to get back on track.

    When Shumpert is in at point, have him out there with Melo and Smith so they won’t be relying on Shumpert to get inside the defense, something he can’t do consistently.

    The Knicks have a lot of different looks they can throw at guys now. Even if everything comes together perfectly I don’t see them being at the Heat/Bulls level this year, but with some time to figure each other out and some growth from Lin and Fields they could be well on their way to contention.

  99. Gideon Zaga

    Uh oh, reports from Ken Berger that Felton is having a bit of a rift with Nate McMillan, who’s your Daddy now Knick fans.

  100. bobneptune

    Juany8:
    And JR and Baron Davis came to the Knicks for nothing basically because they were the Knicks and they wanted to play here.

    jr came here because of contractual benefits the knicks could offer that the paper clips cannot.

    the knicks can offer 2.5 M pro rated for this year because they had an unused exception. the clips can only offer the vet minimum ~ a million less for this year only.

    secondly and more importantly, the knicks ( because they are using an exception) can offer jr a contact this season for 2.5 million PLUS A PLAYER”S OPTION FOR 2.5 MILLION NEXT YEAR!

    should he blow out his knee or need surgery for avascular necrosis and miss the entire 12/13 campaign he can exercise his option and get paid 2.5 M next year to recover. if he is healthy, he can not exercise his option and go to the highest bidder.

    so the knicks offer is far superior in present money this year, plus it offers 2.5 M in protection for him next year.

    EZ choice and it has nothing to do with wanting to play in nyc or melo. its always about business.

  101. bobneptune

    JK47:
    The Knicks were a horrible defensive rebounding team and a horrible overall defensive team before Chandler got here.Now they’re an excellent defensive rebounding team and an above-average defensive team.Maybe it’s because of Mike Woodson’s awesome switching schemes, or maybe it’s because Tyson Chandler is pretty good.

    pretty good and ” a great center” are 2 entirely different things. i would suggest he is better than pretty good, but not nearly great by any reasonable context.

  102. jon abbey

    bobneptune: pretty good and ” a great center” are 2 entirely different things. i would suggest he is better than pretty good, but not nearly great by any reasonable context.

    but that’s just semantic, he was the one who stopped Miami in the Finals last year, he is the one having a career year offensively, he is in the top 3-4 centers in the league.

    JK47: don’t minimize the addition of Shump Shump either.

  103. jon abbey

    bobneptune: jr came here because of contractual benefits the knicks could offer that the paper clips cannot.

    the knicks can offer 2.5 M pro rated for this year because they had an unused exception. the clips can only offer the vet minimum ~ a million less for this year only.

    secondly and more importantly, the knicks ( because they are using an exception) can offer jr a contact this season for 2.5 million PLUS A PLAYER”S OPTION FOR 2.5 MILLION NEXT YEAR!

    should he blow out his knee or need surgery for avascular necrosis and miss the entire 12/13 campaign he can exercise his option and get paid 2.5 M next year to recover. if he is healthy, he can not exercise his option and go to the highest bidder.

    so the knicks offer is far superior in present money this year, plus it offers 2.5 M in protection for him next year.

    EZ choice and it has nothing to do with wanting to play in nyc or melo. its always about business.

    right, but the reason that the Knicks were on his short list of two or three was because of Melo and D’Antoni and NYC. I feel very confident in stating that if we don’t make the Melo deal, JR Smith is not a Knick.

  104. Brian Cronin

    I feel very confident in stating that if we don’t make the Melo deal, JR Smith is not a Knick.

    Agreed. It might not be a 100% certainty, but it’s close. If it was just about money, he’d have signed with Minnesota, who could pay him upwards of $5 million this season.

  105. hoolahoop

    Brian Cronin: Agreed. It might not be a 100% certainty, but it’s close. If it was just about money, he’d have signed with Minnesota, who could pay him upwards of $5 million this season.

    If he had a $5mil offer from Minni he’d be playing in MSG only when they came town.

  106. jon abbey

    Antwan:

    Heres his contract info.
    2 years 4.3 million, with second year option for 2.5.

    maybe it’s just semantics, but it’s actually 1 year/1.8M, with a second year option for 2.5M, so 2/4.3M in the unlikely and happy event that he exercises that.

  107. Z-man

    Some here just can’t deal with the concept that the Knicks took a premeditated, calculated risk that has ultimately worked (build a top-notch relatively young front line by sacrificing most of your cap space and draft picks and worry about finding a PG and building a bench based on them being easier to find with no cap room than good starting bigs, the attraction of NYC’s big market and the attraction of playing with a front line that just needed a PG to get over the top). Lin is a great story, but his stats will surely come down to earth somewhat and he will become a solid, but flawed starting PG if he can withstand the beating he is taking; his story is unlikely, but only was possible because of the initial plan. If this didn’t happen, it doesn’t mean that we couldn’t have found someone at least servicable, rather than the ineptitude we saw over the first 23 games. There is next year’s MLE, the potential of Nash, Baron, purchase of 2nd round picks, D-league, Europe, etc. and the new GM, like Walsh, seems to have a knack for shaking the trees and jumping on opportunities as they come up. Bottom line is, the plan has ultimately given us what we have now. The Mavs tinkered for a long time before they found the right formula, and there was some very good fortune involved as well as some blunders. For now, this team looks like it is ready to terrify the league. Let’s see what happens. One thing is for sure…ticket prices ain’t going down.

  108. Antwan

    jon abbey: maybe it’s just semantics, but it’s actually 1 year/1.8M, with a second year option for 2.5M, so 2/4.3M in the unlikely and happy event that he exercises that.

    If he’s happy, he’ll take a 2.5 guaranteed. And if not, a 1.8 hit on this year is a steal, if he winds up making 3.5-5 if he decides to leave. A real win-win in my book.

  109. Brian Cronin

    If he’s happy, he’ll take a 2.5 guaranteed. And if not, a 1.8 hit on this year is a steal, if he winds up making 3.5-5 if he decides to leave. A real win-win in my book.

    Happiness will have nothing to do with it – he’ll take a big money contract somewhere else unless something catastrophic happens to him. That, though, is something to worry about in the offseason, not now.

  110. Brian Cronin

    Bought tickets for Mon @ 51 bucks after the Nets win. LOL STEAL!!! FTLin!!

    Ha!

    I had tickets for the game against Cleveland in a couple of weeks but I had something else to do that night, so I listed them at a significant increase and then bought tickets for a game against Detroit in March. Everything other game is WAY too expensive!

  111. bobneptune

    Z-man:
    Some here just can’t deal with the concept that the Knicks took a premeditated, calculated risk that has ultimately worked (build a top-notch relatively young front line by sacrificing most of your cap space and draft picks and worry about finding a PG and building a bench based on them being easier to find with no cap room than good starting bigs, the attraction of NYC’s big market and the attraction of playing with a front line that just needed a PG to get over the top).

    i totally agree they made a calculated risk that has worked perfectly since lin did his david bowie impersonation as the ” man who fell to earth”. getting struck by lightning is a wonderful thing.

    of course, you conveniently neglect this “master plan” was sitting at a crisp 8 and 15 helplessly hoping for davis to get an un-disc injury and with the completely predictable awful play of douglas and zombie bibby.

    so , yeah…. management should take a victory lap for their genius.

    i made my money in the horse racing business and i can tell you i never lost a bet when i played the results from the tote board.

    just out of curiosity, where was the point guard coming from for this year if lin didn’t fall out of the sky?

  112. Z-man

    bobneptune: made a calculated risk that has worked perfectly since lin did his david bowie impersonation as the ” man who fell to earth”. getting struck by lightning is a wonderful thing.of course, you conveniently neglect this “master plan” was sitting at a crisp 8 and 15 helplessly hoping for davis to get an un-disc injury and with the completely predictable awful play of douglas and zombie bibby.so , yeah…. management should take a victory lap for their genius. i made my money in the horse racing business and i can tell you i never lost a bet when i played the results from the tote board.just out of curiosity, where was the point guard coming from for this year if lin didn’t fall out of the sky?

    Well, if you look back at my posts before the year started and they had acquired Chandler, you would find that I totally supported the move for the long term. So your point about the “tote board” is just plain ignorant. You also keep bringing up that the Knicks were 8-15 before Lin. To use your bad analogy, that’s like saying that “well, Secretariat was losing at the quarter pole, so I was right that he was a poor bet; the fact that he won the race is just plain lucky.”

    Wouldn’t you call it “unlucky” that Toney Douglas played ten times worse than he did at any point last year? Nobody thought that Douglas was anything more than a stopgap at the point, but he was so totally inept that it became a major setback. Why do you now conclude that if Lin was, say, only as good as Chris Duhon, that the team would not have improved in the short run? Who’s to say that Baron Davis doesn’t come back after the All-Star break to play well? Why is it impossible that a Steve Nash might come our way next year, like Jason Kidd did for Dallas? Or D-league guy might rise to the occasion? Bottom line is, you were wrong. Deal with it.

  113. mr front row

    I must admit that as a lifelong knicks fan, its great to see what we gave witnessed recently.I side with melo when he stated that in the playoffs the knicks would be a “tough out” . But I would like yp pose this trade to the good folks of this thread. with 45 minutes left until trade deadline and the phone rings and its orlando..amare, bill walker, and toney douglas, for dwight, and duhon… do we make that trade???

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