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	<title>Comments on: Swift, Brown, and Fun With Logos</title>
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		<title>By: property and casualty license</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-332881</link>
		<dc:creator>property and casualty license</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Jul 2011 17:37:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The best website…&#8230;</strong></p>
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		<title>By: dave</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-54</link>
		<dc:creator>dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2005 15:17:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-54</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As difficult as it is to disagree with Hollinger, though he makes compelling points, I think Harvey Araton&#039;s piece in the NY Times is a better take on Brown-to-NY rumors: http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/sports/basketball/20araton.html (free registration req&#039;d)

I think there are two times when coaching in the NBA has the biggest marginal payoff: 1. when a team is on the cusp (this is what phil jackson specializes in); 2. when a team is directionless  and floundering. I think LB really does his best work under the second condition. So I&#039;m not at all convinced that Brown would absolutely refuse to sign on to a turnaround project especially now that he&#039;s won his ring. Larry&#039;s not Phil Jackson. And it&#039;s not as if LB hasn&#039;t done this before in LA and NJ. As Araton aptly quotes the Pacers&#039; Donnie Walsh, &quot;They used to say Larry hated veterans and would only coach kids he could mold.&quot; LB played a 21-22 year old Iverson. He also rescued Tayshaun Prince from Rick Carlisle&#039;s dungeon in Prince&#039;s 2nd year, moving Corliss Williamson to the bench permanently. He made it clear that Prince should have played sooner under Carlisle, though by that time it was plain to everyone except Carlisle. So I also don&#039;t buy the &quot;Larry hates young guys&quot; line. I think his refusal to play Darko had a lot to do with the fact that Brown wanted a player who could help immediately; not a project. Brown would play an 8th grader if he thought the kid would pass and play hard on defense. That alone virtually ensures that the 3 rooks will play on a team with starters who are notoriously allergic to defense. 

Should Brown sign on with the Knicks it seems inconceivable that he&#039;d have any real illusions about whether this is a rebuilding project, nor about what the Knicks can reasonably do to upgrade the roster in the near term. The key, I think, is whether Brown would regard the situation as winnable. 

I suspect his considerable ego will have him thinking that outside of Miami, Detroit, and Indy no one else in the East is without major flaws that his coaching prowess couldn&#039;t overcome. &quot;In two years,&quot; I&#039;m sure he&#039;d think, &quot;I could challenge for a top 4 seed and put the team in contention. Then I could exit gracefully, handing the baton to my hand-picked successor.&quot;

Of course - I think Hollinger and I would agree - this is an ultra optimistic scenario; likely fool&#039;s gold. However, I&#039;m less convinced than Hollinger that this would leave the Knicks worse off in 5 years financially or otherwise than they are now. (With LB as coach the MLE might attract better talent than Jerome James.) Nor am I convinced that the surer or safer road out of mediocrity goes through Paul Westphal or Flip Saunders. I see the Westphals, Sauders, McMillans, and Mo Cheeks of the world as much more likely to find success following Larry Brown than preceeding him. 2-3 seasons with Brown, even given the inevitably messy divorce, could quite reasonably find the Knicks in much better shape for the next guy to keep things on track or possibly improve.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As difficult as it is to disagree with Hollinger, though he makes compelling points, I think Harvey Araton&#8217;s piece in the NY Times is a better take on Brown-to-NY rumors: <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/sports/basketball/20araton.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/20/sports/basketball/20araton.html</a> (free registration req&#8217;d)</p>
<p>I think there are two times when coaching in the NBA has the biggest marginal payoff: 1. when a team is on the cusp (this is what phil jackson specializes in); 2. when a team is directionless  and floundering. I think LB really does his best work under the second condition. So I&#8217;m not at all convinced that Brown would absolutely refuse to sign on to a turnaround project especially now that he&#8217;s won his ring. Larry&#8217;s not Phil Jackson. And it&#8217;s not as if LB hasn&#8217;t done this before in LA and NJ. As Araton aptly quotes the Pacers&#8217; Donnie Walsh, &#8220;They used to say Larry hated veterans and would only coach kids he could mold.&#8221; LB played a 21-22 year old Iverson. He also rescued Tayshaun Prince from Rick Carlisle&#8217;s dungeon in Prince&#8217;s 2nd year, moving Corliss Williamson to the bench permanently. He made it clear that Prince should have played sooner under Carlisle, though by that time it was plain to everyone except Carlisle. So I also don&#8217;t buy the &#8220;Larry hates young guys&#8221; line. I think his refusal to play Darko had a lot to do with the fact that Brown wanted a player who could help immediately; not a project. Brown would play an 8th grader if he thought the kid would pass and play hard on defense. That alone virtually ensures that the 3 rooks will play on a team with starters who are notoriously allergic to defense. </p>
<p>Should Brown sign on with the Knicks it seems inconceivable that he&#8217;d have any real illusions about whether this is a rebuilding project, nor about what the Knicks can reasonably do to upgrade the roster in the near term. The key, I think, is whether Brown would regard the situation as winnable. </p>
<p>I suspect his considerable ego will have him thinking that outside of Miami, Detroit, and Indy no one else in the East is without major flaws that his coaching prowess couldn&#8217;t overcome. &#8220;In two years,&#8221; I&#8217;m sure he&#8217;d think, &#8220;I could challenge for a top 4 seed and put the team in contention. Then I could exit gracefully, handing the baton to my hand-picked successor.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course &#8211; I think Hollinger and I would agree &#8211; this is an ultra optimistic scenario; likely fool&#8217;s gold. However, I&#8217;m less convinced than Hollinger that this would leave the Knicks worse off in 5 years financially or otherwise than they are now. (With LB as coach the MLE might attract better talent than Jerome James.) Nor am I convinced that the surer or safer road out of mediocrity goes through Paul Westphal or Flip Saunders. I see the Westphals, Sauders, McMillans, and Mo Cheeks of the world as much more likely to find success following Larry Brown than preceeding him. 2-3 seasons with Brown, even given the inevitably messy divorce, could quite reasonably find the Knicks in much better shape for the next guy to keep things on track or possibly improve.</p>
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		<title>By: Larry Fleisher</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-50</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry Fleisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jul 2005 04:40:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-50</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I might be in the minority but I actually agree with Hollinger.  Does anyone think Brown will honor a five-year contract or believe him when he says this is his final stop?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might be in the minority but I actually agree with Hollinger.  Does anyone think Brown will honor a five-year contract or believe him when he says this is his final stop?</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly Dwyer</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly Dwyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 21:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-46</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I actually bookmarked this Piston press release link

http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/logochange_050711.html

thinking I could use it for something.  The line about how the Pistons &quot;have eliminated any and all horse representation&quot; cracked me up.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I actually bookmarked this Piston press release link</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/logochange_050711.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nba.com/pistons/news/logochange_050711.html</a></p>
<p>thinking I could use it for something.  The line about how the Pistons &#8220;have eliminated any and all horse representation&#8221; cracked me up.</p>
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		<title>By: Lance Uppercut</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-44</link>
		<dc:creator>Lance Uppercut</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 20:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-44</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Channing Frye will never be any good.  I can&#039;t think of one decent center he had to play against in college, and I watch a lot of the Pac-10.  Couple that with the fact that teams had to defend the perimeter against Salim, and you get a scenario of a decent college C/PF who didn&#039;t play against big, NBA style C with teams having to constantly shadow Salim, leaving the lane open for lanky, soft Channing.  Sorry.  I am often wrong though.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Channing Frye will never be any good.  I can&#8217;t think of one decent center he had to play against in college, and I watch a lot of the Pac-10.  Couple that with the fact that teams had to defend the perimeter against Salim, and you get a scenario of a decent college C/PF who didn&#8217;t play against big, NBA style C with teams having to constantly shadow Salim, leaving the lane open for lanky, soft Channing.  Sorry.  I am often wrong though.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul M</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-43</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 18:10:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-43</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[As a Pistons fan, the loss of the horse logo is crushing.

...

Also Larry Brown.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a Pistons fan, the loss of the horse logo is crushing.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Also Larry Brown.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott Carefoot</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Carefoot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 17:49:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-42</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I suspect that Swift signed with Houston so he could play PF full-time next to Yao. Typically, guys his size don&#039;t enjoy playing center because they end up getting banged around by real centers.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suspect that Swift signed with Houston so he could play PF full-time next to Yao. Typically, guys his size don&#8217;t enjoy playing center because they end up getting banged around by real centers.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: KnickerBlogger</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>KnickerBlogger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-40</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Hollinger&#039;s Sun article:

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nysun.com/article/17243&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.nysun.com/article/17243&lt;/a&gt;]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hollinger&#8217;s Sun article:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nysun.com/article/17243" rel="nofollow">http://www.nysun.com/article/17243</a></p>
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		<title>By: Jim K</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-39</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[That was my impression too, and while I assume James will either a) be a stiff or b) be an adequate role player, which won&#039;t be enough for Knicks fans who will boo, leading to his becoming a stiff, he may make more sense in that he can at some level just be plopped in the lane and give the Knicks the resemblance of a traditional center while they try to figure out if Frye or Jackie Butler (I never saw him play, is there any hope?) and Lee can play or not.  I would assume Mo Taylor, who I don&#039;t hate as much as everyone else here, is going to get some minutes as he is the one name not being brought up in trade talks.  Despite his rebounding anemia (and didn&#039;t he rebound better with the Knicks than he had in years?) I don&#039;t find him the defensive stiff some say, and he has moves in the paint.  So I think we may have to stop looking at all available 6&#039;8-6&#039;9 guys for a while until we figure out what to do with the multitude we have...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That was my impression too, and while I assume James will either a) be a stiff or b) be an adequate role player, which won&#8217;t be enough for Knicks fans who will boo, leading to his becoming a stiff, he may make more sense in that he can at some level just be plopped in the lane and give the Knicks the resemblance of a traditional center while they try to figure out if Frye or Jackie Butler (I never saw him play, is there any hope?) and Lee can play or not.  I would assume Mo Taylor, who I don&#8217;t hate as much as everyone else here, is going to get some minutes as he is the one name not being brought up in trade talks.  Despite his rebounding anemia (and didn&#8217;t he rebound better with the Knicks than he had in years?) I don&#8217;t find him the defensive stiff some say, and he has moves in the paint.  So I think we may have to stop looking at all available 6&#8217;8-6&#8217;9 guys for a while until we figure out what to do with the multitude we have&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: phil</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/swift-brown-and-fun-with-logos/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Jul 2005 15:05:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.knickerblogger.net/?p=279#comment-38</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, Swift is much more athletic and at the beginning of the offseason I was begging for him to come to the Knicks...but he&#039;s also 6&#039;9.  I understand that Stoudamare seems to be the new standard of how a center should be.  Still, Swift would&#039;ve been adding yet another PF and unless you thought about a trade following a signing like Swift, it wouldn&#039;t have made any sense for the Knicks to make it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, Swift is much more athletic and at the beginning of the offseason I was begging for him to come to the Knicks&#8230;but he&#8217;s also 6&#8217;9.  I understand that Stoudamare seems to be the new standard of how a center should be.  Still, Swift would&#8217;ve been adding yet another PF and unless you thought about a trade following a signing like Swift, it wouldn&#8217;t have made any sense for the Knicks to make it.</p>
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