Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, August 1, 2014

Seven Seconds or Mess: Play of the Week 11/7/08

Hey guys, Gian here. If you’re not familiar with my work, please visit Seven Seconds or Mess. If you are familiar, enjoy the new segment.

This is a podcast I’ll be posting each week exclusively on KnickerBlogger.Net. It breaks down what I consider to be the best play of each week.

(Note: The gray defensive circles labeled 1-5 are position specific. A point guard is a 1, a center is a 5, etc.)

74 comments on “Seven Seconds or Mess: Play of the Week 11/7/08

  1. Count Zero

    Lovin’ these…

    Watching that, I picked up on the switch off the give and go, and the help coming over to stop Crawford, but I didn’t even notice how that enabled Lee to set that pick and make Augustin late.

    Sweet stuff, Gian.

  2. Ted Nelson

    Great stuff.

    I thought the only way to help an offense was to miss a bunch of contested jumpers like Crawford and Randolph, though, and playing with David Lee put pressure on everyone else because he can’t “create” shots… (I kid, I kid).

    This will really be a great addition to the blog: breaking down some tape to go with the stats and opinions… just when I was hoping to end my Knickerblogger addition and try to be a prodcutive human being.

  3. Thomas B.

    Wonderful work, as always. It is great that you even found a play of week, I was not sure we had one. Nice.

    You know Mike, I’m available to give exclusive stuff too. Well, not a podcast since I dont know what that is. But I could do something.

  4. Gian Casimiro (SSoM) Post author

    Glad you like it.

    They actually ran this play pretty frequently in the preseason but haven’t implemented it much so far.

    We know the strength of D’Antoni’s offense is the multitude of options it creates each play and this is a good example of that. Ideally Crawford would’ve beat Carroll to the basket – if you watch it again, he didn’t. That would’ve been a layup, foul or both. If Augustin made it to Robinson in time, Lee could’ve had a post-up opportunity.

    Chandler is starting for Lee tonight, probably to handle Jamison.

  5. Ted Nelson

    Who says the Knicks don’t have an interior presence… big Nate stuffing another 7 footer

    I wouldn’t have minded taking McGee #6… never saw him in college but he’s really an athlete at 7 feet

  6. Caleb

    Along with the hands of stone and raw as sushi style, McGee had some “work ethic” issues, at least according to the pre-draft rumors. But obviously he’s huge – I think he was the tallest player in the draft – and he can run. His draft competition was probably Speights (who I liked at #6) and JJ Hickson… I know Hickson destroyed us in the summer league opener, but has anyone seen him play a real game or know what he’s done? If he turns out to be usable, might free up Ben Wallace for a Randolph trade.
    How’s that for stream of consciousness?

  7. TDM

    Remember when people noted the Knicks’ strong performance from the line the other night?
    Oh well.

    Beat me to the punch. 41%!!! No excuses for that crap. That said, I’ll take the win.

  8. jon abbey

    nice game! I love moving Chandler into the starting lineup, and replacing Lee was pretty inspired considering the matchup. most assists in one game since the nineties! over .500! whoooooooo…..

  9. cwod

    I agree. Nice game.

    Duhon gave an anti-Starbury performance, racking up assists and key rebounds and keeping the offense moving, while not committing a turnover.

    It’s nice to see Q-Rich is playing less and less. He was actually somewhat effective in limited minutes tonight.

    Chandler got a lot less trigger-happy as the game progressed.

    Zach took some of his trademark, predictably ugly long jumpers, but the rest of the team did a good job of getting him the ball around the basket.

    I liked that the announcers called out Crawford for falling in love with his pull-up jumper and not getting to the line enough.

  10. daaarn

    The Spurs continue to struggle.
    Where is the real David Lee?

    Ugh, I hope this is just a slow start, and that they’ll get w/ the program by the time Manu returns. Last thing I want to see is the Spurs sucking all year and then pick up another Duncan-type impact player in the lottery.

  11. jon abbey

    I’d love to see NY comfortably ahead in a home game at some point, and the crowd start chanting “WE DON’T WANT STEPH! WE DON’T WANT STEPH!”.

    yeah, Lee had a few nice plays, but one rebound! what about the way he butchered that open layup late? yikes!

    anyway, very weak schedule so far, but I’m still excited.

  12. nj hoop

    You really gotta like the ball movement and also Duhon playing like a true PG. We will always play well against teams with no low post game, and fortunately we’ve seen 3 of them already. So we can’t get too excited, but it’s nice to see a team execute a game plan and win on the road.

  13. Z-man

    Along with the hands of stone and raw as sushi style, McGee had some “work ethic” issues, at least according to the pre-draft rumors. But obviously he’s huge – I think he was the tallest player in the draft – and he can run.

    I thought McGee looked like a bonafide defensive center of the near future (2-3 years). Tremendous athlete, very active, still raw but a real presence. He had a huge 3rd quarter.

    I agree. Nice game.
    Duhon gave an anti-Starbury performance, racking up assists and key rebounds and keeping the offense moving, while not committing a turnover.

    Good, smart game for Duhon, but honestly, who was the opposing PG? The difference in this game was 3-point shooting: we were hot, they were not. We can’t count on having 36 assist-10 turnover nights every night.

    Zach had a big game again. Chandler looked great. Nate is under control. Still, Wizards did not look very formidable. Nice to see us beating the doormat teams on the road for a change, though.

  14. Caleb

    Nice win. Everyone looked good – Duhon and Crawford, especially. Randolph also impressed with his aggressiveness – late 2nd quarter, one play really caught my eye — he got the ball on just outside the elbow, almost immediately put it on the floor going hard to the hoop. Drew a foul from McGee. Last year he would have pounded it into the floor for 10 seconds and shot a fadeaway.

    On the David Lee front, the good news is that he’s rapidly becoming affordable for that extension.

  15. Gian Casimiro (SSoM) Post author

    The difference in this game was 3-point shooting: we were hot, they were not.

    49.3% 3FG in wins, 29.7% in losses. Sure most attempts are taken open and within the offense but we all know these guys are streaky.

  16. Ray

    I dont care if the schedule is considered weak. They are out there scrapping and winning games and that is honorable. I wish Gallo was good enough to play right now. Id really like to see his skills and certainly his outside shot would help. Its hurts to see other teams rookies playing and not ours. Kinda takes the fun out of the draft. I hope he continues to develop and grow like Wil Chandler…who is a beast!!!

  17. scogg25

    Free throw shooting was bad. Maybe Chandler will be less wild in a starting role because he doesn’t feel like he needs to prove himself as much by taking as many shots.

  18. scogg25

    Also, I hate to say it, but at this point I would actually not be thrilled to see Zach go. I can’t wait to get rid of Eddy Burger though…if it’s a 3- way with the Spurs and Warriors, that probly means the Spurs would have to give up Bowen, and I doubt they would want to do that…or that Golden State would want him…plus they may feel like they’re giving too much away because they would need 3 players to match Curry’s salary…maybe cash from both the knicks and warriors or something..

  19. jon abbey

    Tony Parker left with a sprained ankle tonight, out 2 weeks. so we get the Spurs on Tuesday with no Manu and no Parker, they’re 0-3 at home so far.

  20. TDM

    My favorite stat of the night – Duhon 12 assists / 0 Turnovers.

    Anyone catch the Marbury quote of the day: “I love the fans, I love New York and I love the New York Knicks. One day I might be able to buy the New York Knicks.” Classic.

  21. Thomas B.

    Curry and Collins to OKC for Wilcox and Watson.

    Marbury deserves better than this. They should just waive him.

  22. jon abbey

    come on, not sure how many times we have to go through this, but Marbury deserves absolutely nothing, he’s been stealing NY’s money for years. what he actually deserves is to be tied to a post near the entrance of the Garden and let fans throw things at him and ridicule him. the guy is making a quarter of a million dollars per game to sit in a courtside seat, he’s even stopped scrimmaging with the team. if he really feels like NY is hampering his career, I’m sure Walsh would be happy to work something out.

  23. Thomas B.

    come on, not sure how many times we have to go through this, but Marbury deserves absolutely nothing, he’s been stealing NY’s money for years. what he actually deserves is to be tied to a post near the entrance of the Garden and let fans throw things at him and ridicule him. the guy is making a quarter of a million dollars per game to sit in a courtside seat, he’s even stopped scrimmaging with the team. if he really feels like NY is hampering his career, I’m sure Walsh would be happy to work something out.

    he deserves better than that too. He is human who has not harmed anyone. He has dissapointed you, but that does not justify what you suggest. Say or think what you want.

    Knicks managment should at least deal in good faith. I am so glad the fans-the good ones-cheered “we want Steph.” The best thing about that was it forced knicks management to deactivate him just to avoid the cheers. It exposed the lie. That lie being “he has a clean slate”, and “he could help this team.”

    I think they should just cut their losses and let him go. He deserves better than to be lied to. Marbury never lied to them, he has always been exactly what he always was. This year he vowed to come into camp in shape-he did. He vowed to accept whatever role the coach wants-he has. He has not made trouble. He has not been sullen. He has been the most interesting interview on the team all year. He did what he said he would do. It is the Knicks who did not give him the clean slate they said they would give him.

    Since he did his part, he deserves to have thier part. It’s only fair.

  24. jon abbey

    the Knicks are paying his salary, there’s absolutely no reason they should pay him to play for someone else. if one or two of their guards get hurt, then they’ll let him play.

    and he’s not a prisoner, he’s quite capable of resolving the situation himself if he so chooses. how anyone can take his side outside of his immediate family is totally beyond me.

  25. Ted Nelson

    I agree that D’Antoni made a mockery of himself by saying everyone has a clean slate and then refusing to play Steph at all costs (just by saying he’s a former All-Star and I don’t want to disrespect him he’s contradicting the very notion of a clean slate).
    I’m not so sure Marbury can end this if he chooses or that the Knicks are anxious to cut him, though. It could just be the whole I will not buy anyone out, we need him in case someone gets hurt thing that Walshtoni is saying in public. However, Marbury is one of their biggest trading chips at this point, so I wonder if they’re not holding him until the trade deadline just in case something materializes and he doesn’t know that if he behaves he’ll be let go if not traded.

    “he’s been stealing NY’s money for years.” Couldn’t disagree with you more here, Jon, the Knicks were more than happy to take on not only his but also Penny Hardaway’s contract and pay them both (until they decided to pay Francis… and then Randolph). Marbury’s been exactly what he’s been his whole career since arriving here and the Knicks should have known that was what he’d be. It’s like saying that Jerome James is “stealing” the Knicks money… everyone knew he was overpaid in Seattle and the Knicks go out and give him a contract that’s twice as big… If I offer you $100 and you take it, did you just steal it?

  26. Ted Nelson

    It is nice to at least beat the bad teams. I felt good to see that they outplayed the Wiz at what should be the Wizard’s own style. I was a little bit worried about them out-playing the Knicks in a free-flowing offensive game and then I really would have wondered if this experiment was going to work. Definitely a game they might have lost in the past, and still should have been a blow-out win rather than 6 points. The interior D is still non-existent, the Wiz just couldn’t/weren’t even trying to hit from outside. Knicks spacing and ball movement were nice. Getting the chance to run their offense against a weak defensive team might get them going (the Knicks are only 21st in the league offensively at this point, and also 21st defensively).

    Hate to see this happening to the Spurs (although as someone said they probably get the #1 pick, take a star and win 4 rings in the next 8 years…) but the Knicks could legitimately go 3-1 next week and start 6-3. Don’t want to get my hopes up, but 6-3 would be too much! Would be time to start handing out extensions again… although the Knicks are over .500 so maybe it’s already that time.

    Don’t know what’s up with Lee’s rebounding: 11, 11, 2, 4, 1… Am I wrong or was his one rebound off a missed FT, as well? At some points he seemed to be out of position and at others I felt like he just wasn’t elevating at all. If he had shot at his career average and gone 3-4 from the line (instead of 1-4) he would have had a nice scoring night, though. I don’t mind him coming off the bench at all if he’s still playing about 30 min., playing down the stretch, and grabbing, I don’t know, more than 1 rebound…

    I’m coming around on Wilson Chandler, IS… Nice game and I’d really like him if he could just get to the damn FT line. Seriously, how can someone so athletic with good basketball skills get to the line 0 times in a game where he shoots 12 times? His shots seemed much less forced than usual, probably in large part because the ball was moving so well.

    Every time Zach Randolph gets the ball it’s like he’s already decided whether he’s going to pass or shoot. If it’s shoot he just puts his head down and does what ever it takes to “create” a shot, whether there are 3 guys on him and 2 wide open teammates with 15 seconds left on the clock and he’s out by the 3-point line or not. Has no one ever taught him the triple-threat position? That’s like the first thing I learned at a basketball camp as a little kid.

  27. Jay Zee Police Clyde

    Very Excited
    New Commentator introduced Yesterday.
    Is the BOO GENERATOR Finally on his way out?
    The introduction coupled with his more tolerable coverage the past days would make me think so.
    It could be that he thought a win was a sure thing and he took leave
    as history would tell. Go back to last year when the Knicks went on a 3 day spree. Yes that really happened. That’s just one example.Only time will tell.

    Promising day for the NY if it’s true.
    Too bad for Lary Brown and the others who had to work through his coverage.

  28. Thomas B.

    the Knicks are paying his salary, there’s absolutely no reason they should pay him to play for someone else. if one or two of their guards get hurt, then they’ll let him play.
    and he’s not a prisoner, he’s quite capable of resolving the situation himself if he so chooses. how anyone can take his side outside of his immediate family is totally beyond me.

    I get all that. But it clear they never planned to let him contribute to this team. D’antoni decided that Steph was not able to handle a reduced role without even giving him a chance. Now had they given him a fair shot and he blew it then it is on him.

    I can side with Steph because he has donated millions of his own dollars to help others. Millons to inner-city youths.

    As for our diff’rent views, I leave you with this:

    Now, the world don’t move to the beat of just one drum,
    What might be right for you, may not be right for some.
    A man is born, he’s a man of means.
    Then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

    But they got, Diff’rent Strokes.
    It takes, Diff’rent Strokes.
    It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.

    Everybody’s got a special kind of story
    Everybody finds a way to shine,
    It don’t matter that you got not alot
    So what,
    They’ll have theirs, and you’ll have yours, and I’ll have mine.
    And together we’ll be fine….

    Because it takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.
    Yes it does.
    It takes, Diff’rent Strokes to move the world.

    Wise wise words.

  29. nj hoop

    I love Clyde for his personality and his legacy, but it was refreshing to have a color guy making insightful comments and observations, as opposed to “Knicks have a little pep in their step” and “the Knicks can ill afford to trade baskets” Is this permanent does anyone know?

  30. jon abbey

    Hate to see this happening to the Spurs (although as someone said they probably get the #1 pick, take a star and win 4 rings in the next 8 years…)

    I hope they go 3-79, draft the next Len Bias, and Duncan and Popovich get married and go live on a desert island somewhere. fantastic to see them losing, I hope it keeps up.

  31. jon abbey

    and it is (essentially) stealing money if I’m being paid a quarter of a million dollars per game and I decide to wear cheap-ass $15 shoes and end up with foot problems that hamper my game.

  32. caleb

    He was having knee problems before the $15 shoes were out — spent the two years before that, icing them down Ewing-style after every game, sitting out practice with tendinitis.

  33. jon abbey

    lastly, I disagree with people who are sure that this team would be better with Marbury playing. as D’Antoni said, he’s not suited to a 10-12 minutes off the bench role, Collins and/or Roberson are thrilled to have those minutes, and it’s pretty obvious to me that Duhon, Crawford and Nate should all be ahead of him. Curry is a better player than Malik Rose in a vacuum also, but that doesn’t make him a better fit for this rotation.

    meanwhile, not only is the team over .500, but they had more assists last night than in any game in the entire Marbury era. do you really think that’s a coincidence?

    WE DON’T WANT STEPH! WE DON’T WANT STEPH! WE DON’T WANT STEPH!

  34. cwod

    Like Jon, I agree with D’Antoni’s public comments. I don’t think Marbury is really suited to a role as the fourth guard in the rotation, especially since he won’t even be here next season. Wouldn’t we rather know if we have something in Collins or Roberson?

    PR mess? Probably. Possible dishonesty? Perhaps. Bad personnel decision? I don’t think so.

    There was an article in Newsday the other day. A player was asked if the Marbury situation was a distraction, and the player said, compared to what has been going on here the past few seasons, it’s barely an issue to them.

  35. Gian Casimiro (SSoM) Post author

    We can form any opinion we want about Marbury but in the end, your employers can utilize you as they see fit.

    But if you look at what’s happening on the court, Nate’s play makes it easy to keep Marbury inactive. He’s getting to the rim (how about that teardrop he keeps making?), he’s hitting three’s (42%), and he’s averaging 16 pts, 4.8 assts and 4.2 boards. That completely makes up for Marbury’s strengths.

    Now before you think about how much more Marbury can contribute over Roberson/Collins in 10-12 minutes, consider a few things:

    1) The 9th player in the rotation is generally a specialist – a sharpshooter, a rebounder, a defender, whatever the coach needs for short periods.
    2) Judging from preseason, D’Antoni would’ve used Marbury at the 2, so he’d be out of position and playing without the ball.

    Marbury doesn’t catch and shoot very well, and it doesn’t make any sense to run high PnR plays and change the offense for someone playing 10 minutes a game. We know he needs the ball to be effective. He wouldn’t have it in his hands in this role.

    Collins and Roberson are specialists which makes them better fits. If D’Antoni needs some extra size and defense in the backcourt, Collins is there. If not, Roberson gets a chance to prove himself – and if you watch him, especially on the defensive end, he’s playing like he wants to stay in the NBA.

    But of course, in a month, Gallinari and Jeffries will push them out of the rotation anyway.

  36. Thomas B.

    SSoM,

    “We can form any opinion we want about Marbury but in the end, your employers can utilize you as they see fit.”

    I do not argue that Knicks management has acted outside of their contractual rights, as they have not violated a contract. I argue that they have not dealt with this matter in an ethical manner. They should not have lied about a clean slate if the intention was to never allow him to play. It is clear that that was the case after deactivating him in favor or Mardy and Roberson. While your point about Robinson’s play has great merit, there is no merit to Marbury not being thr 4th guard if you define merit in terms of ability. If D’antoni only played a three guard rotation, then Marbury should be out. However, in a five guard rotation, which we have seen in the last two games, I think there is little question that Steph should be in the rotation.

    I will say again, the coach and GM may play any player they want at any time they want. But do not tell someone they have a clean slate when you know that is not the case. Do not assume that a person will “eventually” have a problem with only playing 15 minutes a night-or fewer. No one desreves to be lied to, mislead, or asked to perform under false pretense. This is exactly what the Knicks have done, and I were looking to join an organization long term, I would give a great deal of thought to the way the team treats its personnel, even if such treatment is within their contractual rights.

    There are a number of posters here who fail to see the ethical argument here and the potential harm these ethical failures may have on attracting talent. The best of the best join top teir organizations. An employee who has several options will not deal with an employer who does not deal honestly and fairly with its employees. The Knicks do this to their own peril.

    —–
    “and it is (essentially) stealing money if I’m being paid a quarter of a million dollars per game and I decide to wear cheap-ass $15 shoes and end up with foot problems that hamper my game.”

    Cheap shoes = bad knees and feet for basketball players?

    Hmmm. Come to think of it, Rik Smits did wear Starbury’s, yeah and so did Penny Hardaway right before his knee problems. Ditto Jonathan Bender. Damn you know, had Greg Oden just wore a pair of 150 Nikes he would not have sprained his foot last week. Ditto Tony Parker. Allan Houston.

    I would have thought that 11 years of playing over 75 games a year might take its toll on a body, but boy was I wrong. It is, in fact, the shoes. As the old commercial says: “The Shoes, it’s gotta be the shoes.” Wow and that independent study done by HBO real Sports that concluded that the difference between the Starbury1 and a pair of top of the line Nikes, was not substantial. The only key difference involved durability of the goods, or how long the shoes would hold up. Dont even think of arguing that since there is not a player in the NBA that wears the same pair of shoes in two games. Hell, I saw Iverson changing them by the quarter.

    Stealing money? Talk to Larry Brown about stealing money. He’s been paid off by two teams in consecutive offseasons to go the hell away. Marbury’s contract was the bargained for exchange that the Knicks agreed to when they made the deal with the Suns. They knew what they were buying. Hey if we are playing Monopoly and you accept a trade of Boardwalk for Baltic, I did not steal, you were just dumb. Knicks management has been idiotic since Layden showed up.

    Hell Layden tore down the house.
    Thomas set the debris on fire.
    Brown shat on the ashes.
    All the while Dolan is dialing “912″ for help.
    Steph-who is not without blame-gets the worst of this deal because he was the first decoration Thomas bought for a home that was already condemed. Everyone else is gone except Marbury, who cannot get clean because he was harmed in the demolition, charred in the fire, and yes shat upon by the highly paid contractor. All while Dolan dialed “912″ wondering why he wasnt get help on the phone.

    Sure the Knicks have been bad under Marbs but he did not trade for Curry. He did not give up two lottery picks, and salary cap room. He did not trade for damaged goods in Richardson. Nor did he trade to get the worst rotation player in basketball, or sign the second worst to a contract 29.99 too high and 4.999 years too long.

    Yet in light of all that, what does it boil down to?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Abr_LU822rQ

  37. jon abbey

    well said, Gian.

    and yes, Larry Brown is a worse culprit than Marbury, but that’s irrelevant here.

    and there is absolutely no ethical issue here, and really no issue at all IMO. no one lied, they gave him a chance in training camp, and he didn’t fit in well, as Gian explained quite clearly and rationally. what’s amazing is that the bottom line is way better than anyone expected right now (3-2), yet still people are questioning D’Antoni.

    why is no one bitching that Curry should play over Malik Rose? same thing IMO.

  38. Thomas B.

    well said, Gian.
    and yes, Larry Brown is a worse culprit than Marbury, but that’s irrelevant here.
    and there is absolutely no ethical issue here, and really no issue at all IMO. no one lied, they gave him a chance in training camp, and he didn’t fit in well, as Gian explained quite clearly and rationally. what’s amazing is that the bottom line is way better than anyone expected right now (3-2), yet still people are questioning D’Antoni.
    why is no one bitching that Curry should play over Malik Rose? same thing IMO.

    Curry did not come to camp ready to play, Stephon did. Not at all the same.

  39. Thomas B.

    and that 3-2 is not better than I expected.

    Gian was clear, rational, and still not seeing the entire picture.

  40. cwod

    While your point about Robinson’s play has great merit, there is no merit to Marbury not being thr 4th guard if you define merit in terms of ability.

    He didn’t define merit in terms of ability. He defined the fourth guard’s spot as a specialist’s role.

    If D’antoni only played a three guard rotation, then Marbury should be out. However, in a five guard rotation, which we have seen in the last two games

    That’s not true. Against Charlotte, Collins didn’t even play, and Roberson saw six minutes of playing time.

    There are a number of posters here who fail to see the ethical argument here and the potential harm these ethical failures may have on attracting talent.

    As someone who completed 90% of a philosophy major in college, I resent that!

    I think there’s another way of looking at this. It shows that the organization is going to do what’s best for chemistry and isn’t going to continue to coddle the so-called “coach killer.” I’m sure if you polled the current roster, which D’Antoni reportedly did in the off-season, the players would have mostly negative feelings toward Marbury. Clean slate talk or not, this is the reality of how Marbury is perceived on the team — and probably in the league. I have a hard time believing any future free agents are going to hesitate on joining the Knicks because of how they treated Marbury. Fairly or not, the guy isn’t taken seriously.

    I’m not saying I know the thought processes of NBA players, but I think that’s a more likely possibility than some wider ethical claim. D’Antoni probably screwed up the PR stuff on this, but I doubt there will be lasting consequences. Besides, NBA players absolutely LOVE D’Antoni, if polls results are to be believed. Everyone wants to play for the guy. Do you think the guys from Team USA are thinking, “This guy helped us win a gold, but look how he’s treating Stephon Marbury. I don’t think I should play for him.”

    Next up: blowout loss to Utah.

  41. ess-dog

    Here’s a nice little tidbit from Dime:

    “The Knicks continue to seriously covet Golden State’s Al Harrington, but Charlotte, offering Wallace, won’t work as a third-team facilitator. One source indicated that the Bobcats indeed have some interest in an Eddy Curry-for-Wallace swap, but taking on Wallace would run completely counter to New York’s hopes (prayers?) of freeing up the salary-cap space to get into the bidding for LeBron James and the rest of the amazing 2010 free-agent class.”

  42. jon abbey

    Here’s a nice little tidbit from Dime:
    “The Knicks continue to seriously covet Golden State’s Al Harrington, but Charlotte, offering Wallace, won’t work as a third-team facilitator. One source indicated that the Bobcats indeed have some interest in an Eddy Curry-for-Wallace swap, but taking on Wallace would run completely counter to New York’s hopes (prayers?) of freeing up the salary-cap space to get into the bidding for LeBron James and the rest of the amazing 2010 free-agent class.”

    that’s a ridiculous entry for multiple reasons. first of all, no way Charlotte would consider that when Portland is offering a few young guys, but since Wallace makes less than Curry in 2010-2011, it would actually help NY slightly in terms of cap space that offseason. Wallace is signed for two more years than Curry, but that’s irrelevant in this context.

  43. o_boogie

    Was fortunate enough to have 12th row seats to the game last night. Here are my observations:

    1) When Washington’s shots were not falling, we did a good job getting the ball up the floor quickly and finding easy buckets in transition, especially in the second half.

    2) The first half, we kept getting stuck on back picks on ball and baseline screens off the ball allowing a lot of easy layups for Washington. Second half, Nate and Duhon did a better job fighting through screens.

    3) Caron Butler is really good. He just finds ways to score; doesn’t matter if he is double teamed or in transition or wide open in the corner, the guy is a scoring threat.

    4) Crawford falls asleep during stretches. During the first and the third quarter he was looking to assert himself and ended up having over 20 points. Other times, he doesn’t move off the ball and isn’t looking to make a meaningful contribution.

    5) JaVale McGee has stone hands. He caught two nice alley oops and also blew two easy ones. At least three passes went right into his chest and he bobbled them.

    6) Mike D’Antoni is intense. With under a minute to go and us being up by six, he was flipping out in the huddle. I am glad cuz Marbury and JJames were dancing to the music in the arena and the team wasn’t focused or paying attention. Closing games is something we are undoubtedly going to have to improve if we stay above .500.

    Im not sure how good we are, but if we beat all the bad teams we may slip in as the 8th seed.

  44. Ben R

    Here’s a nice little tidbit from Dime:
    “The Knicks continue to seriously covet Golden State’s Al Harrington, but Charlotte, offering Wallace, won’t work as a third-team facilitator. One source indicated that the Bobcats indeed have some interest in an Eddy Curry-for-Wallace swap, but taking on Wallace would run completely counter to New York’s hopes (prayers?) of freeing up the salary-cap space to get into the bidding for LeBron James and the rest of the amazing 2010 free-agent class.”

    I would much much rather have Wallace over Harrington. If we can get Wallace and not even have to give up Lee, Robinson or Chandler I think you need to jump on that. If it truly is just for Curry that is a dream come true.

    2010 cap space be damned, Wallace is probably as good as anyone we will realistically get in free agency and if we want to move him he has positive value and we could trade him for an expiring in a second.

    If we still really want Harrington, what about Crawford or Randolph they would both fill needs in Golden State and they both have contracts as long as Curry’s, with Crawford we could also probably get another player like Azubuike or Wright thrown in.

  45. danvt

    “meanwhile, not only is the team over .500, but they had more assists last night than in any game in the entire Marbury era. do you really think that’s a coincidence?”

    No.

    One thing that we’ve suffered from in the last few years is that the rotations have been too long. We’ve had all these guys out there that all did the same thing and none did it very efficiently because you can’t get a rhythm unless you get a steady 30 minutes per game. It’s even worse when you force a guy to play a role that’s not really what he does well. So, benching Curry gives Randolph the minutes at the PF that he needs and he has been much better. Same can be said of Marbury vis a vis Jamal, Nate and Chris.

    Danillo and Jeffries coming along slowly is also a good thing from this perspective. When they’re ready they will a great help, especially if they can grab some rebounds and deter a drive to the bucket or two, but right now it gives other guys, particularly Chandler, a chance to get comfortable.

    Marbury sitting on the bench is a bummer. It can’t make for a comfortable locker room. I feel bad for him since his father died. He does donate tons of money and I wear his shoes, they were the only ones I could afford, and they are terrific.

  46. danvt

    Balkman being gone is a bummer too but we’re getting a sense of who this team is going forward. What comes with that is getting a sense of who it isn’t. However, all that should matter right now is that we’re getting better. I don’t care that we’ve beaten bad teams. I’m thrilled we’ve beaten three teams. We’re in a position where, if we beat the Jazz, people are gonna start freaking out and really getting carried away.

    Being 3-2 puts losing the game into perspective as well. They can, not really but almost, afford a loss as long as they play hard and smart and keep it close. The good thing about a winning record is that you don’t play every game like it’s your last. If they’re 2-3 looking at 2-4 they’re starting to think about the lottery again. Next thing you know they’re short arming their shots.

  47. caleb

    I enjoy the glimpses of hope, but the Knicks have been terrible this year, 3-2 record and all. The average point differential is -4.6 (only 7 teams are worse), against an extremely weak schedule. We’re playing like a 30-win team, at best.

    re: the Dime thing, doesn’t it miss the point? I’d assume a 3-way trade (if it happened) would send Wallace to Golden State, Curry to Charlotte and Harrington to New York. I agree there’s no way Walsh blows the 2010 space on Wallace. Yes, he’s a good player; no, he’s not stealing money at $10 million per; no, he won’t be better than the free agents we can get that summer (especially when he’s past 30).

    Of course I’d trade Curry for him in a heartbeat. He’d be a lot easier to repackage in a future trade, and would be useful to keep if we miraculously dump Randolph to get the cap space.

  48. Ben R

    Caleb – Do you think that Wallace really is much worse than the options we will have in 2010. I personally think that all the top tier players are a pipedream and Wallace is a very good player and worth the 10 mil per he is getting.

    He is efficient enough (career TS% 54.2% – best season 57.8%), blocks shots (1.3 per 36 career), gets steals (2.0 per 36 career), is a good rebounder for a SF (6.9 per 36 career), scores a decent amount of points (15.9 per 36 career) and is a good defender. On top of that he will only be 28 in 2010 and 30 when his contract expires.

    I think Wallace is a great player that the Knicks would be lucky to get and is much much better than Harrington who scores no more points (16.0 per 36 career), rebounds no better (7.1 per 36 career) despite spending time at the 4, is much less efficient (TS% 51.5% – best season 54.7%) and is a much worse defender. To top it off Harrington is two years older.

    For some reason Walsh really likes Harrington and I admit it seems he would fit well into D’Antoni’s system but he is no better than a stopgap till 2010 while Wallace could be a building block to combine with Lee, Nate and Chandler. Get Harrington if we can but get Wallace first.

    If really need to get under the cap in 2010 Crawford has value and Randolph’s value seems to be rising, both could probably be moved leaving enough room for Wallace, Lee, Nate and a big free agent.

    As for the team, I agree, we are too inconsistant to get too excited. I have been really impressed with D’Antoni’s system and I believe he is the real deal but until we get more consistant play from the 2 and 3 a lot of the open looks his system creates will be wasted. As for Chandler he is impressive but I want to see alot more 8-12 games and alot less 3-13 games. If he ever wants to be really efficient he needs to get to the line alot more or become a deadeye three point shooter, all efficient perimeter players are great at at least one of those things if not both.

    It is clear who the culprits are in our inefficient offense our two leading shot takers are Chandler and Randolph and both are shooting about 50% TS%. Our next three (Crawford, Nate, and Q) are shooting 55.2%, 59.8% and 59.1% respectivly. If Randolph and Chandler can either get more efficent or shoot less our ofense will be alot better.

  49. Ted Nelson

    Seeing as Steph has never been put in a specialist’s role and never played off the ball much it’s hard to say how he’d do in that role. He could potentially be just below Roberson and Collins with respect to their strengths (catch-and-shoot from behind the arc/defense) while bringing a more complete game to the table or he could be the same old hard-headed Steph. If given at least a few minutes in that role maybe Marbury would have proven that he cannot adjust to a role as a catch-and-shot sparkplug off the bench, maybe he would have been the perfect combination of Roberson and Collins while also bringing an ability to draw fouls rivaled by few guards in the NBA. The reason I feel Steph didn’t get a clean slate? What team doesn’t experiment with a few different 9th men? To just say that the guy is never, ever going to play while the only other 2 guys in the same boat on the entire roster are fat and lazy and don’t even show up ready to play… If Jared Jeffries gets to try out for the role of interior defender (something he hasn’t been since college), Steph might as well get a shot at 10 mpg sparkplug.

    I don’t think there’s a big problem not playing Steph, though, Roberson and Collins are both looking good in their roles. I just think that by letting it turn into a PR mess the Knicks are still the laughing stock of the NBA and not considered a serious organization by anyone. They keep winning and the perception will change, but they’re not playing well on either side of the ball (21st in both) so I have my doubts. If he adjusted his system to get certain guy (esp. Randolph, Chandler, Marbury, even Curry if he works his way into shape) to the line rather than seeming to encourage them to settle for jumpers or sit on the bench I’m quite sure this would be a better offensive team.

    I still have mixed feelings about D’Antoni because he comes across so strong: they keep winning and he’s a genius, they start to lose a lot of games and he’s Larry Brown… At this point I don’t know if they’ve been lucky with a soft schedule or are growing together and learning the system, I suspect somewhere in between the two. I would have just liked to hear D’Antoni give it to us straight. If he had said what Gian said at least I would understand his logic (as I do Gian’s) or maybe he could have said that Steph has been a total ass for all of training camp and did not show the ability to play within my system (if that’s the case), but to say that he doesn’t want to disrespect a (washed-up) former All-Star with a bit role? Weak stuff. Ultimately the fans are his employers, so I just want to hear it straight.

  50. Ted Nelson

    Dan, Randolph has been about the same so far this season compared to last, aka terrible. I hope Walshtoni knows this. Curry was on the fringe of the rotation by midway through last season anyway, so I can’t understand why people like Hollinger keep insisting Randolph/Curry eating each other’s productivity was the Knicks big problem last season. (Well, Hollinger in particular has to compensate for flaws in his player rating system.)

    Ben R, good point about Randolph/Chandler hijacking the offense. Seeing as it continues game after game, I don’t think D’Antoni sees it.

    —————————————————————

    I’m all for the Curry/Wallace swap, and would rather Wallace than Harrington despite the contracts. I think that if they position themselves well the Knicks should be able to get at least one good max-level FA in 2010, if not 2 (ok, 2 is a pipedream). However, Wallace can either be part of the core to attract that player or be traded for a shorter contract before then.

    I cannot believe Charlotte would trade their best player so far this season for someone who basically failed under Larry Brown before, came to camp out of shape, and has yet to play this season. But it would be exactly the kind of move the Knicks need to make to get back to respectability. Wallace instantly becomes the Knicks’ best defender and probably their best player overall. I suspect the Bobs want David Lee or Wilson Chandler along with Curry, but who knows…

  51. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, Walllace is just about the polar opposite of messing with the Knicks cap space in 2010, as he is eminently tradeable. It reminds me of the old Mitch Hedberg joke:

    I was at this casino minding my own business, and this guy came up to me and said, “You’re gonna have to move, you’re blocking a fire exit.” As though if there was a fire, I wasn’t gonna run. If you’re flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a fire exit.

    Similarly, if you have a desirable player that teams, at the very least, would give you draft picks for , you are never blocking a 2010 free agent signing.

  52. danvt

    “Dan, Randolph has been about the same so far this season compared to last, aka terrible”

    I don’t know, 18 and 11. Yeah, he’s under 50% from the field and he should take fewer outside shots but, I think we’re winless without him.

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