Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, November 18, 2019

Sacramento Kings 113 – New York Knicks 92 – Game Recap

If I had to guess the Knicks’ record in the first six games before the season began, I would probably have said 1-6 or 2-5 if I was wearing particularly rose-colored glasses. The Knicks record is actually 1-6 right now. So why, oh why, I do feel like everything is going in the most horrible way possible?

I guess everything starts with the inherent distrust you’re forced to carry around Dolan’s minions. While Perry hasn’t done anything super bad (not a good talent evaluator, but he actually won a few marginal trades), Mills and Fizdale look like guys who can talk their way out of a lot of hairy situations while failing to understand a lot of basic basketball principles – Mills talking with Dolan, Fizdale with media and pundits alike.

I mean, I guess it’s probably hard to build a coherent roster starting from essentially scratch. But when you go around and build something that even the man on the street will tell you is deeply mismatched, and then compound the mistake by putting at risk the development of what you already have because you need to make it work with the new pieces, and that’s because you need to save face about your acquisitions… well, this is how the worst run organizations work.

The battle in Boston was pretty much well fought, so what do you do to tackle the Kings? Of course, you change your starting lineup to make space for one of your newest acquisitions, Bobby Portis. He’ll be the key to unlock your big summer splash, Julius Randle! Yeah, sure. Pretty much everyone would have told you the results would have probably been bad (especially on defense). You know what? Fizdale isn’t pretty much everyone; take that for data!

The game itself doesn’t offer many talking points: it was a complete drubbing, we were never without striking distance and a lot of Knicks were very disappointing in every facet of the game. You know who wasn’t disappointing? Yeah, the (probably still injured) guy switched out of the starting five. And the good Melo impression Marcus Morris. That’s it. Everything else was between slightly below average to downright terrible. De’Aaron Fox toyed with everyone, even Frank (who half the time looks like on the verge of a focus crisis); a lot of the other guys kept hitting threes with incredible ease, with the Kings ending the game on a good 15-for-39 from behind the arc – and a certain point they were 12-for-24! I don’t know how but we managed to make Harrison Barnes, a very useless basketball player, look competent and reliable.

The sooner we forget about his game, the better.

The good:

– Nope.

The decent:

– Marcus Morris (28 pts, 6 rebs, 2 ast, -11 +/-) played a very efficient offensive game, scoring his 28 on just 14 shots and hitting 6 of his 7 free throw attempts on a night where the Knicks were terrible at everything (40% from the field, 25.8% from three, 64.5% from the free throw line). His playing style is something that makes me want to pry my own eyes out with a screwdriver, but it would be very intellectually dishonest on my behalf to pile on him on good nights. That said, December, 15th can’t come soon enough. It’s only a shame that our FO will not recognize, for the umpteenth time, the opportunity cost in retaining those one-year-contract veterans and will fail to capitalize on the few good games Morris and Ellington will have played from now to that date.

The bad:

– Who knows if this terrible performance will dissuade Fizdale to ever play Bobby Portis (2 pts, 6 rebs, 1 ast, -23 +/-) more minutes than Mitch? I mean, this guy was supposed to be the answer to “How in the hell do we set the table so that Randle will stop hamstringing himself with his magic imaginary yo-yo?” and ended up being out of place, out of space for all the 20 minutes he was on the court. Portis will never give you defense, we all know that (maybe Perry and Fiz don’t, I seriously don’t know about them). If he can’t even give you a modicum of offense and spacing, he’s worse than useless. He’s utterly detrimental. Friendly reminder that we’re paying this guy 15 million dollars this year and that our coach seems to like him more than basketball savant Mitch.

– Kevin Knox (2 pts, 3 rebs, 1 ast, -3 +/-) played in a few semi-effective lineups, but totally laid up an egg this time. 0-for-4 from the field, 2-for-6 from the line, ludicrously ineffective defense. This is his first real bad game of the year, but on the nights he plays like this there’s nothing wrong putting in Iggy. Looked slow, looked tired, looked last year’s Knox. This won’t cut it, ever. That said, I think we need 15-18 minutes per game from Kevin on a nightly basis, if only for spacing purposes. Allocating all of Portis’ minutes between Knox and Gibson would make me happy. Well, maybe not happy. Glad?

Fun-sized bits:

– Portis was supposed to unlock Randle. Julius’ line: 8 points, 7 rebounds, 4-for-13 from the field. Our vaunted summer acquisition is posting negative WS/48, BPM and VORP numbers. He’s exactly the same player (minus a probably flukey shooting hot stretch from last year). Who do you think takes the blame for his unprecedented regression?

– How can you unlock a burly, paint minded power forward by having him initiate the offense 30 feet from the basket? Asking for a friend.

– RJ is kind of a beast going to the rim and posted good numbers (22 points, 5 boards, 3 assists) but his efficiency is waning. His TS% is .487 (mostly thanks to his woeful free throw shooting). His raw numbers are good, but he needs to be playing inside a more functional and functioning system for us to really grasp what do we have here. I like him, a lot, but there are times when I’m afraid he’s a smarter Evan Turner and that doesn’t bode well.

– Mitch in 24 minutes on a bum hand: 10 points, 5 rebounds, 2 blocks, +5 +/-. But sure, he’s the reason Randle started off very slowly. In extremely limited minutes, he’s posting a .293 WS/48. Hey Fiz, here’s a hint: play him until he fouls out. Nobody cares. Everyone else in the frontcourt is all Afflalo to us. Mitch is our future and whoever stands between him and leaguewide dominance should be kicked out of New York asap.

– How I wish we had a decent point guard. If we add to that the fact that the only point guard (?) we have now is Frank, and he derives his value from on man defense, and we deploy a very switch-heavy style, playing him doesn’t make a lot of sense. Moreover, De’Aaron simply pwned him.

– Why does Trier end up from time to time in Fiz’s doghouse? Nobody’s arguing he’s a great player, but when he plays he delivers something usually. His fit with Barrett is simply awful, though.

– First NBA minutes for Iggy! I already said he’s a better player than Knox. Hot take, maybe, but I want to know what we have in him.

Let’s hope for a bounce back game against Detroit and our old frie… sucky point guard Derrick Rose. Until then, fare thee well!

 

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117 comments on “Sacramento Kings 113 – New York Knicks 92 – Game Recap

  1. Ingmarrrr

    Thanks Farfa.

    Let’s make this right. I’ll start.

    1. Never, ever let Randle initiate the offense from the perimeter. Give him the ball when he’s in a position to score in the low post.

    2. Work with Mitch on shooting when open from 18ft. He’s being totally ignored there by the defense, and that’s a real problem. Otherwise make sure he doesn’t find himself with the ball at that position.

  2. Hubert

    Thanks for continuing to do this for us, Farfa. I don’t envy your work.

    I’m 1000% out on Mills and Perry and don’t think there is any going back. They needed to be ousted before they enter the “acquire long term contracts to save our hides” phase of their reign. I don’t know how Dolan can reach that conclusion, though. It seems like Mills is the only guy he has to talk to in the organization. We need Adam Silver to steer Masai to NY and save us like he saved the Clippers.

  3. Hubert

    To be fair, I’ve liked some of Mills/Perry’s moves. But here’s the evidence:

    – Chose Fizdale over Budenholzer (who won coach of the year in his first year at Milwaukee)

    – Selected Knox over SGA (who looks like he might make an all star team in his second season)

    – Got 50 cents on the dollar for Porzingis

    – And most damning of all: they didn’t just put this roster together… they wanted this roster so bad that they rushed to overpay for it on Day 1 of free agency.

    Case closed.

  4. Ntilakilla

    Important bit of information here to put Fizdale’s moronic statements about RJ’s minutes into proper historical context.

    When Latrell Sprewell last played 42 mpg, the average pace in the league was 90 possessions per 48 minutes.This season, the Nuggets have the slowest pace in the league with 97.1 possessions per 48 minutes https://t.co/Es0esdC4Hr— Bootum (@DaRealBootum) November 4, 2019

    It’s getting to a point where Fizdale may have to be fired to salvage our future. Many a young promising player in professional sports has been burned by a coach who overplays them to save their job. The coach ends up leaving and the franchise is left with the squandered player. All of these minutes at such a young age won’t bode well for RJ.

  5. E

    and that our coach seems to like him more than basketball savant Mitch.

    There’s no “seems” about it — he does like Bobby Portis more than Mitch. Just like he liked Emmanuel Mudiay more than Frank. Frank and Mitch are “one-dimensional,” and maybe even a little bit “gimmicky.” And “gimmicky” smacks of … Euro. Frank’s a Euro, Mitch might as well be. And we all know that Euro stuff doesn’t cut it.

    On the Take That For Data! front, Fizdale is 18-79 in his last 97 games as an NBA head coach.

  6. DS

    Personally, I’ll give them another two weeks. The next seven games are against pretty mediocre (unless you count Dallas as good) to bad teams. If Payton is back and they still look terrible, then it’s tank time.

    I’m not optimistic, but on the other hand, this was the first truly terrible loss.

  7. Brian Cronin

    Good stuff, Farfa!

    Here’s the thing, though, I went pessimistic as fuck with my win suggestion this year, figuring that they would get into the 30s with wins – just good enough for them to A. not make the playoffs, B. not get a good lottery pick and C. not want to cut ties with their 346 mediocre veteran free agents they signed (“We’re so close to .500!”).

    And instead, they’re looking to get another high lottery pick and they’ve hit on a winner with their previous high lottery pick (that they got from actually intentionally tanking – which is some nice positive reinforcement for Dolan. “Here, Dolan, we tanked and you got a cookie! Good, right? Yay!”) and the veterans (outside of Morris) are all so shitty that they’ll likely cut ties with them and maybe actually try to build a roster next season built around the win curves of Barrett and Mitch (and with a roster that somewhat approximates what the other 29 teams are doing and not trying to outsmart everyone else while not, you know, being smart). And hey, the losses might be enough that they’ll actually fire these guys and hire some good replacements.

    This is actually the most optimistic that I’ve been about the Knicks in years. They actually have two young players who you could see being part of the foundation of a good team! When’s the last time they had that? Patrick Ewing and Mark Jackson? And Mark Jackson wasn’t even that good!

  8. Owen

    I like him, a lot, but there are times when I’m afraid he’s a smarter Evan Turner and that doesn’t bode well.

    It feels like he might split the difference between Evan Turner and Ben Simmons.

    I turned it on down 25 and got to see some good play from Mitch at least.

    Masai or bust.

  9. thenamestsam

    I mean on the one hand, it is possible that RJ’s minutes aren’t a problem because the Knicks have a state of the league sports science dept. that’s looking at every variable, closely monitoring all his inputs and outputs and coming to the conclusion that he’s capable of handing a huge load right now. And on the other hand it’s also possible that we’re five years behind every other team in the league and our sports science approach boils down to “Ride him until he breaks at which point you tell him to rub some dirt on it and get back out there”. Really no way for us to know for sure from the outside; I’m sure this is probably fine. Things usually work out for us.

    Seriously though, there’s a reason the rookie wall is a thing. Going from college to the pros is already a huge step up in the level of grind you’re subjected to. Barrett played 1340 minutes last year at Duke. At this pace he’s going to pass that around New Year’s with 4 months and about 45 games left in the season. He’s currently top-25 in the 3-point era for rookie MP/G and the only teenager above him on the list is Lebron. It’s just too much and has a serious whiff of desperation given how clear it is we’re going nowhere fast.

  10. E

    He played in garbage time against the Celtics, too in the blowout. It’s not just the minutes, it’s also the risk of blowing out an ankle or a knee during meaningless Tacko time.

  11. Nick C.

    If anyone watched the post game, Wally was furious about the rookie wall and minutes questions. “You used to play all day at his age, mumble mumble about his rookie year” the unintentional comedy keeps right on rolling.

  12. Brian Cronin

    Which is especially hilarious considering Wally didn’t come into the league until he was 22 and he averaged less than 30 minutes in his first season.

  13. DS

    If anyone watched the post game, Wally was furious about the rookie wall and minutes questions. “You used to play all day at his age, mumble mumble about his rookie year” the unintentional comedy keeps right on rolling.

    Wally played less than 30 minutes per game on a 50-win team in his rookie year.

  14. DRed

    As far as I can tell we don’t really know if it’s good or bad to play someone like RJ huge minutes. Lebron played 42 minutes a game when he was 20 and he led the league in minutes played when he was 33.

  15. DS

    My son, born in June 2018, is named Rowan. I was initially psyched to learn RJ was also a Rowan but then quickly realized he probably prefers RJ because he doesn’t his name very much. :)

  16. JK47

    The other thread seems dead so I’m going to repost these pearls of wisdom here on this fresh one:

    This team is crummy in the exact ways I expected.

    The guard play is execrable, it’s a low eFG% team because there are no easy buckets, and the offensive rebounding doesn’t offset all of that enough. End result: 29th in offensive rating, 29th in eFG%.

    The defense is merely bad and not horrible but we also haven’t faced many top offensive teams yet. Yesterday against a struggling Kings team the defense was nonexistent early and then the game got out of hand.

    Bad team, bad concept of a team, should have just stuck with a full youth movement and tried to take on bad contracts for assets as anyone with a brain could have seen coming from ten miles away.

    Fire everybody.

  17. thenamestsam

    As far as I can tell we don’t really know if it’s good or bad to play someone like RJ huge minutes. Lebron played 42 minutes a game when he was 20 and he led the league in minutes played when he was 33.

    I agree there’s no definitive way for us to know. There is very advanced sports science stuff going on at a lot of teams these days; I just have zero confidence that the Knicks are one of those teams. And given that zero confidence and the fact that they’re treating Barrett differently than basically any other team treats their rookies, it’s hard not to be concerned. Hell, every other team is trending towards way more rest with all of their players. Barrett leads the whole damn league in minutes played and is 5th in MP/G. When you see someone agressively swimming against the stream it usually means they either know something everyone else doesn’t, or else they’re really, really lost. Betting on the Knicks being really, really lost has produced a pretty steady return over the years.

  18. E

    The Suns signed a bunch of free agents last summer and they’ve actually managed to turn things around, even without Ayton. Net rating of almost +9, 4-2 on the year, already beat the Clippers. Still early, but early returns look very promising.

    Miami, too. They didn’t really even have any cap room to work with.

    The Knicks just always fuck things up. Fifty cents on the dollar, tops, for a guy picked 4th and still only 22, and the cap money used for Marcus Morris, Bobby Portis, Wayne Ellington, Taj Gibson, and Julius Randle (who’s absolutely godawful and doesn’t look a thing like a guy you can win with). LOLOL. Dolan’s Razor.

  19. DRed

    The biggest indictment of the FO/coaching staff is that the guy who is by far the best player on the team is sixth in minutes played.

  20. E

    If all these minutes give Rowan Jr. a stress fracture in the tibia or the foot or something, that only raises the chances (at least 40% already) that he pulls a KP and doesn’t re-up with this shitshow in 2023. Gotta call it like it is. Hope I’m wrong. But this formative experience for him is wretched in virtually every dimension, from mediocre and mouthy mercenary veterans to shitty, clueless coach running a prehistoric offense, to incompetent front office, and running clownjoke ownership. Quite the paradox: Best fanbase in the NBA, worst organization in the NBA.

    As much as the case can be made that KP was an ass and a diva and not worth a max, we also shouldn’t forget that he wanted nothing to do with this organization. That word travels.

  21. KnickfaninNJ

    Of course, the Suns also signed a competent coach in Monty Williams. If I was at the game I would have tried to start a “Fire Fiz” chant

  22. thenamestsam

    The biggest indictment of the FO/coaching staff is that the guy who is by far the best player on the team is sixth in minutes played.

    And he’d be 7th if Payton hadn’t been hurt. Not ideal.

  23. ess-dog

    Yeah, despite the terrible signings, we could at least be putting decent starters out there (Payton/RJ/Morris/Randle/Mitch) and teaching them how to maximize their skills as a unit, but for some reason, we don’t do that. We start Portis.

  24. hoolahoop

    Sole highlight for me last night was when they cut to Bill Walton and Mickey Hart in the stands

    It was a lot nicer seeing them at MSG a couple of nights earlier.

  25. E

    Morris and Randle can’t play together. They define the word “redundant.” That lineup has no floor spacing and a bunch of mismatch, which is why it has a net rating of minus-20.3. You don’t fix it by swapping out Mitch for Portis, that’s stupid, but it still sucks.

  26. thenoblefacehumper

    This team is so incoherently assembled any “solutions” seem futile to come up with. Especially considering the best idea I’ve got at the moment is to make Randle a super sixth man type and start Frank-Trier-Barrett-Morris-Mitch until Payton gets back, at which point I guess I’d move to Payton-Ellington-Barrett-Morris-Mitch.

    I don’t think Julius Randle is ever coming off the bench for the Knicks though, so this is all a thought experiment.

    By the way, sure is interesting that Moe Harkless, who came with an unprotected first round pick and was hanging in the balance for a while with no one willing to take on his contract, is good enough to fully be in the Clippers’ rotation. Guess our standards are higher though, and thus require Bobby Portis for more money and no draft pick.

  27. Brian Cronin

    Are Payton and the other shitty point guard ever coming back or what?

    DSJ’s absence is due to a death in the family, I believe. So I’m giving that dude a mulligan on being out.

  28. E

    Yeah, but he’s already been out a long time for it and he and they are going to point to it as a reason for his continued bad play when he comes back. I can very easily see an indefinite leave of absence in his very near future. Again, I hope that’s wrong, but that’s where it’s headed. It’s already happened in Dallas. Can’t see this one ending well, but it would certainly be great if something about the Knicks ever surprised to the upside.

  29. E

    Less than two years ago, this team beat the 26-9 Celtics to go to 17-14 on the season. Then Porzingis hit the wall and the entire thing has completely cratered. They’re light years away from even getting back to December 2017 levels.

  30. JK47

    That 17-14 start had a lot of Pythag luck built into it. A lot of us pointed that out and were told that we were idiots.

  31. djphan

    i’m not enamored with the coaching but it’s still pretty early and it is a very long season…. there isn’t exactly a wealth of talent but there are good young pieces along with some solid vets….

    this isn’t the worst team in the nba… altho we probably deserve to be called the worst team by how we’ve looked… if we didn’t get some absurdly hot shooting from specific people…. we probably get blown out by the nets.. bulls and celtics also… so there is absolutely some dysfunction present….

    but we also don’t have payton who seems like he should be back relatively soon…. and our team looked the best when he looked functional and that was against SA…. that also coincided with randle’s best game as well… i would hold back on crucifying people until we get him back healthy….

  32. GianaDani

    We had Mitch on this roster as a future of this team and drafted RJ. So, one would think that the shopping list included players that complement those two to play in an offensive system that you want to run and fit into their defensive schemes.

    Why would you make Randle the biggest day one acquisition when he can’t play without a PG and next to Mitch?

    This is the idiotic thinking that KP ran away from when they talked about their plans for rebuilding the franchise. Been saying this all summer.

  33. TheClashFan

    Yeah, several of us here were crying for the Knicks to rent cap space for a first rounder or two, but the nitwits didn’t even try. And I believe pretty much all of us condemned the Portis signing. He’s a guy who could be useful to some teams as a bench scorer (sort of a stretch four), but maybe at about 1/3 of what the Knicks are paying him.

    I guess the one thing that surprises me the most is how bad Randle looks. I mean, he’s awful, he doesn’t seem to do anything well (except the occasional nice pass), and he’s locked in for 3 years, so they’re gonna keep playing him.

    If the FO actually makes some deadline deals and gets a first rounder or two for Morris/Randle/Taj (who’s in the doghouse)/Ellington, I guess that’ll be okay, but when have these guys shown any interest at all in doing that in the past? They’ll probably just try to win as many games as they can with this group, then let the 1+1 guys go and sign more vets…

    And if it continues to go bad, Fiz gets scapegoated. Sure, he’s a lousy coach and I’ll be glad to see him go, but I actually feel a bit sorry for him with the roster he has to work with and the likely pressure on him to play all the guys the FO signed.

  34. thenoblefacehumper

    I still don’t really mind the Randle contract because it was short-term and might’ve been our best chance to get a young, reasonably productive player via free agency. There’s probably an argument to be made that you don’t pass that up and worry about the fit later (which can include trading him if it just doesn’t work at all).

    What I do mind (a lot) is prioritizing getting value out of that contract higher than developing Mitchell Robinson. That’s frankly a terrifying indication that these guys have no idea what they have in Robinson and think he’s “just another rim runner” or whatever.

    These guys decided they wanted to win as many games as possible in 2019-2020, which was a) stupid and b) they signed a bunch of guys not particularly conducive to that goal anyway. It’s not what you want!

  35. Dink

    Glad I skipped this one (went to the PA Bacon Fest instead). Decided to throw on some Big Thief instead of the game for the drive back to NJ. Looks like I made the right call (and big ups to everyone here who recommended BT, good stuff).

  36. ess-dog

    I think we are stuck with Morris/Randle as the forward spots. It’s not ideal, but it could be worse. Both of them can hit threes, hopefully at a decent rate, rebound, and both are close to average defenders.

    But the super big lineup just doesn’t work against most teams: It’s a team from the 80s. Obviously, Morris at pf and Barrett at sf would be better, but since our guards are terrible, that just creates other problems.

    they need to figure out a way to “play big” while still guarding the perimeter on D. And on offense, they should simply do high picks with Mitch while the other bigs look for passes at the 3 pt line. Feature Mitch and RJ, they are the future anyway. We don’t need Randle’s old school post moves in the halfcourt.

  37. GianaDani

    Other than Payton, sit all the veterans one by one and tell them that they are coming off the bench and their minutes minutes are 100% defendant on the impact they personally have on the young player they’re coming in for and not on their own performance.

    Assign them as mentors. Taj to Mitch. Morris to RJ. Randle to Knox. Ellington to Trier/Dotson.

    Start: Payton, Dotson, RJ, Knox and Mitch. Trier is the 6th man and others who spend time and work throughout the week with their youngin get the remaining minutes.

    Make an 8 game report card system. Mentee and mentor write an honest report to about each others progress and feedback about coaching, rotations and certain game situations. These reports go directly to Perry/Mills who share this info with coaching staff. No pride. No experts. No all-stars. Collaborate till vision unifies. Then you have a team. W’s will follow. Team will be greater than sum of its parts because it was built from bottom up.

  38. JK47

    This team would be so much better off playing smallball, but to do that you’d have to move one of the redundant forwards for a guard. Randle is gumming up the works, he’s an old-school big booty 4 and those guys are going the way of the dodo bird. Payton/Ellington/RJ/Morris/Mitch is probably the best lineup to throw out there if you want to win games but with the salaries being what they are we will probably try to keep jamming the square peg into the round hole.

    As ever, the East is big, man.

  39. KnickfaninNJ

    I see no way this team will be good on offense. (At least, not without actual basketball plays or a completely different offense, which just isnt in Fiz, as far as I can tell). So just make every line up decision based on having the best defense possible and resign yourselves to another tank year. The offense might be worse, but we might actually have an average defense, so the games would probably be closer and more watchable even though we would lose a lot of them.

  40. GianaDani

    Help the team develop an identity. It has to be true. Has to be real. Forget skill set, talent and position-less basketball fake geek & snowflake type pipe dreams. Built this on a real foundation with blue collar workers. There are no All-stars or even top 50 NBA players on this team. Help these kids figure out who they are deep down and let them display that on the court. Did you see Luka going at LBJ? You think that Euro would have done that if he was playing for Fiz? RJ is real and already plays with a chip. Portis has an edge. Our only win is because of that edge. Morris and Taj are as tough as they come. They must punish people inside. Bump people after the call. No layups. Get 2-3 flagrant calls a game. Send Trier and Randle to G league for lack of effort on any two consecutive plays and bring in a few PHD (Poor, Hungry and Determined) players to replace them. Find the next Mason, Starks, Whiteside, Johnson etc…Hint: They’re not the Millionaire lottery picks who haven’t panned out somewhere else. This whole 3 yr used lottery ticket strategy to hit a jackpot is idiotic. Randle is literally doubling down on that same strategy. Guy looks lackadaisical and disinterested after 1st quarter. Reminds me of Jerome James when it comes to belly fire.

  41. TheClashFan

    @46

    Payton/Ellington/RJ/Morris/Mitch is probably the best lineup to throw out there if you want to win games

    I like that, though I’d trade Morris at the earliest possible date and then start Randle. Along with that, I’d like a “second unit” of DSJ, Frank, Dotson, Knox, and Taj (the vet). Get those guys about 20 mpg each for awhile and see if any of DSJ, Frank, or Knox takes a step forward.

    But Portis is probably going to play, whether Fiz likes it or not. My main hope now is come January the Knicks trade away Morris and Portis, at least.

  42. GianaDani

    Most New Yorkers can spot a fake tough guy easily. Fake geek is the same exact thing. Fugazzi is a Fugazzi. Being a genius is not a lifestyle you choose, its who you are. Fiz and Perry are like Boston and Bain consultants. Well trained to talk about business or give intelligent sounding advice using smart sounding words or phrases but they can’t build or run anything themselves. Time to kick these fake clowns out of town.

  43. Brian Cronin

    Payton/Ellington/RJ/Morris/Mitch is probably the best lineup to throw out there if you want to win games but with the salaries being what they are we will probably try to keep jamming the square peg into the round hole.

    And what’s crazy about that is that I have a very hard time believing that you couldn’t find a shooting guard as good (or better) than Ellington and possibly a point guard as good (or better) than Payton by just going to undrafted free agents. Why are good teams finding guys out of the G-League and a shitty team like the Knicks, who should have multiple roster spots open to fliers, are not? And they’re literally a year removed from possibly having a minor success with Trier!

  44. Knew Your Nicks

    Simple Things:
    Send Fiz home.
    Get JVG, Pitino or someone experienced and interested to work on a rebuilding project.
    If he’s unable to work with the PFMotley Crue too, keep the coach and the youngsters and throw away the vets.
    And tank.
    But for God’s sake GET A GOOD FKN COACH.
    We don’t have the luxury to try Waltons, Kerrs and Fizdales after 47 years of misery….

  45. The Infamous Cdiggy

    I mean, if you wanna go that route, then who is Phil Jackson (the coach version) without Shaq, Kobe, MJ and Pippen? Who is Pop without Duncan, Manu and Parker?

  46. Knew Your Nicks

    Who d you prefer if they were all free between Kerr, Doc, Pop, JVG ?

    I’d have taken Kerr last.
    Despite his 3 titles.

  47. KnickfaninNJ

    Even though there are great Knick memories of JVG, I’m not sure he’d be a modern style coach. So I would put him last.

  48. geo

    Of course, the Suns also signed a competent coach in Monty Williams.

    that was kind of whom i was hoping we’d pick up…my impression was though monty didn’t want to come here…

  49. Knew Your Nicks

    The Champ Tyron Lue or the Fake Euro Champ Zelimir Obradovic ?
    I’d have grabbed the Serbian and sign him to a 5yrs contract without hesitation if he’d ever considering nba.

  50. Dink

    dang dink…that looks like some hella fun…i love me some bacon…

    It was a lot of fun… even my vegan gf had a good time lol.

    Easton, PA is a nice little place. Lots of great local brews; filled up a couple growlers before returning home (God bless the Weyerbacher brewery).

  51. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Lol did I just hear that Pitino is a great coach and Kerr isn’t

    “Jerome James ain’t walking through that door. Renaldo Balkman, Jarred Jeffries ain’t walking through that door.”

    Pitino is a con artist.

  52. Dink

    Looking at Julius Randle’s contract: I thought he had signed a 3 year deal with the 3rd year being a team option. But spotrac says the Knicks will carry $4million in dead money even if the option ISN’T picked up. What’s the deal with that? Is the 3rd year a partial-guarantee instead of a team option?

    Not sure if I can handle 2+ more seasons of J. Randle, point-forward.

  53. ess-dog

    Yeah, they need to scrap the point-forward experiment. Randle’s a finisher that can slash and shoot a little.

    So as we all predicted, the Knicks have signed 3 vets that are centers in the small-ball era EVEN THOUGH their best player is a center… and it’s not working out.

  54. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Anyone care to link to that Pythag thread? I remember that vaguely but want to have a rush of endorphins for making the fake-stats crowd look like utter fools per usual

  55. TheOakmanCometh

    Listen, it’s still early. There is plenty of time left in the season to sign more PFs. I just feel like the answer to our problems is more PFs.

  56. Early Bird

    Listen, it’s still early. There is plenty of time left in the season to sign more PFs. I just feel like the answer to our problems is more PFs.

    Don’t be ridiculous. We already have Taj who hasn’t gotten any burn recently. We should start next game with. Knox/Randle/Morris/Portis/Gibson. That will solve our problems. Run those guys 36 minutes a night.

  57. GianaDani

    Give the keys to Malone and let him drive the bus this year; carefully watch how he handles the swirling road and fragile passengers, how he makes left, right and u-turns, prepares for the road, and most importantly, his ability to be calm and think on his feet during storms and his ability to take action by making immediate and decisive decisions. Lastly, must be consciences and have the ability to self-reflect at the end of each trip in order to keep improving as a bus driver. This is not rocket science folks. It is, however, a mystery to those like Guitar Jimmy, Perry and Fiz who have never built anything themselves.

  58. bobneptune

    The Alienation of MR begins…. well played DizzFail!!!

    Knicks center Mitchell Robinson became the Knicks’ fall guy Sunday in an attempt to get Julius Randle off the schneid.

    But the Knicks never looked worse. Randle didn’t play well. Bobby Portis, who replaced Robinson in the starting lineup, couldn’t make a shot. And Knicks coach David Fizdale is back to the drawing board.

    “He wanted me to come off the bench,” Robinson said after the 113-92 Sacramento rout dropped the Knicks to 1-6. “He wanted to see how they’d do with them starting. So I’m going to support the decision. I’m still on the team. I’m going to come off the bench just as hard.”

    The lineup change was done to space the floor better, putting the 3-point-shooting Portis alongside Randle up front and bringing the defensive-minded Robinson off the pine. Randle’s 3-point field-goal percentage has now dropped below to 5.6 percent — he’s 1 of 18.

    “Usually I stay in the dunker’s spot,” said Robinson, an alley-oop machine as a rookie. “I really don’t get into the corner. Bobby gets into the corner. It’s not the natural spot I run to. Me coming off the bench, I guess (Fizdale) sees a lot of spacing there. I can’t tell you that part. You got to ask him.”

  59. GianaDani

    GM vs Coach is the chicken or the egg question. Jockey or thoroughbred? Driver or race car? – the exact weight of each is in the formula is debatable. However, based on a lifelong driving record, think it’s finally evident to everyone that neither Perry nor Fiz are a long term solution. If anyone still thinks that they deserve two more years then the results are in and, I’m sorry but, you have officially tested positive for cult.

  60. Farfa Post author

    “Usually I stay in the dunker’s spot,” said Robinson, an alley-oop machine as a rookie. “I really don’t get into the corner. Bobby gets into the corner. It’s not the natural spot I run to. Me coming off the bench, I guess (Fizdale) sees a lot of spacing there. I can’t tell you that part. You got to ask him.”

    Nooooice

    13 more games and Fiz is out

  61. Dink

    GM vs Coach is the chicken or the egg question. Jockey or thoroughbred? Driver or race car? – the exact weight of each is in the formula is debatable. However, based on a lifelong driving record, think it’s finally evident to everyone that neither Perry nor Fiz are a long term solution.

    Dafuq kind of analogy is this?

    And the answer is GM. A quality GM gets you a lot further than a quality coach.

  62. E

    “Usually I stay in the dunker’s spot,” said Robinson, an alley-oop machine as a rookie. “I really don’t get into the corner. Bobby gets into the corner. It’s not the natural spot I run to. Me coming off the bench, I guess (Fizdale) sees a lot of spacing there. I can’t tell you that part. You got to ask him.”

    He occasionally gets the ball at the top five feet behind the three line, too, when they run that ridiculous handoff/weave/Hoosiers play like they do 85% of the time. They actually run action to get the ball to that point, too, for no purpose, since the defense would just give the ball to Randle or Robinson or Morris at that spot without any Knick effort.

    Fizdale doesn’t really want to play Mitch much and certainly doesn’t want to do anything offensively to utilize Mitch’s skills. Bobby Portis is his vision of a “center.” Emmanuel Mudiay and Dennis Smith, Jr. are his vision of a “point guard.”

    He’s a dreadful coach. I wish he wasn’t. He seems like a cool guy and it would be pretty cool if he actually had the juice to back it up. But he doesn’t. Too stubborn, too set in his ways, not imaginative enough, not adaptable enough.

  63. ess-dog

    Yeah looking at the schedule, Fiz is lucky he has two Cavs games and a Bulls game coming up. Those teams really don’t mind losing. But aside from the Nets, there aren’t a lot of winnable games coming up. If he loses the Cavs/Bulls games, I think he’s out before Thanksgiving, otherwise, he’s probably fired around Dec. 7 before/after the Pacers game.

  64. Brian Cronin

    “I can’t tell you that part. You got to ask him.”

    Thank god the Knicks got a great communicator as their coach.

  65. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I view it as more an Alice Waters’ The Art of Simple Food metaphor. If you source high-quality ingredients, any reasonably-experienced home cook can make them taste good. If you give Thomas Keller chicken-in-a-can, he’s going to give you something just slightly better than chicken-in-a-can.

    Give a mediocre coach like Doug Collins an MVP-level Michael Jordan or Grant Hill and he’ll win Coach of the Month (Nov. ’88, Feb. ’97, respectively). Give him 2012’s Jrue Holiday, Thad Young, Evan Turner and Spencer Hawes and watch him get real fuckin’ fired.

  66. Brian Cronin

    I still can’t get over “I can’t tell you that part. You got to ask him.” That’s really, really bad.

  67. E

    I still can’t get over “I can’t tell you that part. You got to ask him.” That’s really, really bad.

    Well, from his previous Memphis experience and even last year with the Knicks, there’s no reason to think he actually IS a good communicator. If he has that reputation, it would be only because he managed to get guys like LBJ and Wade as backers. All indications are that in Memphis he just picked out a handful of guys (“his guys”) and talked to them a lot and basically blew everyone else off. Enes Kanter would probably tell you the same thing.

  68. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    I swear to god if they pick Fizdale over Mitch I am 100% done with this team.

    In my analogy, Fizdale is not Thomas Keller. He’s motherfucking Papa John.

  69. JK47

    The best thing would be if this team went on like a 14 game losing streak right now, with all of the lame ass veterans playing heavy minutes. Let’s accelerate the timetable for Fiz getting canned.

    This might actually happen, this team sucks that bad.

  70. JK47

    The other thing that’s so bad about the Mitch situation is that he seems to be the kind of kid who has trust issues to begin with, and the kind of kid who needs encouragement and positive reinforcement. Not a great fit with the phony who coaches the team.

  71. d-mar

    Pop quiz:

    5.6% is:

    a) The Knicks road winning percentage by the end of November
    b) The percentage of Knickerbloggers who think the Knicks will win more than 30 games
    c) Julius Randle’s 3 point shooting percentage
    d) all of the above

  72. Knew Your Nicks

    2 more blowout losses in a row can send Fiz home imo. No need to fuck the whole November. Starting DSJ and Portis can do the job easily.

  73. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    Fizdale is benching our best player to accommodate our most expensive player.

    What a Knicksy thing to do.

  74. heavencent35

    Come on another coaching change? That is not the answer. We are trying to be stable and once in a while coaching change is not good for the culture.
    Our GM should just talk to Frizdale and mandate him that the priority is to improve our core – mitch, rj, and may be randle. And develop the likes of knoxx, dsj and frank.

  75. TheClashFan

    @89

    Lebron recommended us Fiz and DSJ.

    Supposedly, Peyton Manning called the Jets and strongly recommended Adam Gase for HC of the NYJ. Yeah, great.

    I’ll make a wild prediction that Fizdale is fired before Gase.

  76. GianaDani

    Happy but weird to see most see the light; three months ago when KP was ousted because he didn’t believe in Fiz & Perry, – most of this board defended management.

    Trading Mitch is a deal breaker now. Love it. Can’t help but think what KP & Mitch front court with RJ and someone like Kemba would have looked like while coached by Mark Jackson or JVG.

  77. Early Bird

    Happy but weird to see most see the light; three months ago when KP was ousted because he didn’t believe in Fiz & Perry, – most of this board defended management.

    Trading Mitch is a deal breaker now. Love it. Can’t help but think what KP & Mitch front court with RJ and someone like Kemba would have looked like while coached by Mark Jackson or JVG.

    Well, one of the players is good at basketball and the other is an injury-risk who is getting paid max-level money to be mediocre. Also, KP’s a rapist.

  78. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Happy but weird to see most see the light; three months ago when KP was ousted because he didn’t believe in Fiz & Perry, – most of this board defended management.

    This is perhaps the most contrived and inaccurate way to summarize the arguments made on this board, so right on-brand for ya.

  79. Z-man

    I’m not enthusiastic about Fiz possibly getting fired. As I’ve said repeatedly, he’s a perfect “interim” coach that can be canned when the team is actually built for the playoffs. The Vermin piece was as dumb as it gets.

  80. bidiong

    What the Hell does DizFail even do to make the team better?

    I haven’t seen a whole lot out of him.

  81. bobneptune

    I’m not enthusiastic about Fiz possibly getting fired. As I’ve said repeatedly, he’s a perfect “interim” coach that can be canned when the team is actually built for the playoffs. The Vermin piece was as dumb as it gets.

    He is perfectly useless. He teaches nothing. Why switch off a point guard with a big when the “screener” never gets within 5 feet of the play? What offense has the PG dribble across half court and then hand off to a big 32 feet from the basket every single trip down the floor. etc….. etc…..

  82. geo

    No need to fuck the whole November.

    holy cow knew your knicks – you just cussed…i’m a little surprised, and smiling…

  83. JK47

    I guess the whole rationale behind the 1+1 contracts was to “play the right way” or some crap and eke out enough wins to attract the free agent superstars of tomorrow, but that’s failing badly in both departments. We’re playing a dumb brand of iso ball and we’re 29th in the league in SRS and on top of the Tankathon standings. One of the core prospects is being used sporadically and is not really being developed, and the other good prospect is playing 40+ minutes per game and playing out of position most of the time.

    None of this is going well. At all.

  84. geo

    He’s a dreadful coach. I wish he wasn’t. He seems like a cool guy and it would be pretty cool if he actually had the juice to back it up.

    fuck him and his cool tone loc voice and gorgeous wife…you all nailed it in one simple example – every single time i see it that stupid fucking hoosier weave shit drives me crazy…what year is it – 1954???

    i get it – he has a shit roster synergy wise, still – stop doing dumb shit with the young guys…

    it should be miller time…

  85. Donnie Walsh

    Remember when everybody here thought Devin Booker was an over-rated chucker and scoffed at Phil offering Porzingis for him?

    Good times.

  86. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Remember when everybody here thought Devin Booker was an over-rated chucker and scoffed at Phil offering Porzingis for him?

    His shooting percentages by distance, year over year.

    0-3

    .659 >>> .677

    3-10

    .471 >>> .364

    10-16

    .496 >>> .421

    16-23

    .438 >>> .308

    3P

    .326 >>> .471

    If Booker has managed to be virtually the same player from every distance except beyond the arc, and crushes Curry’s 3P% + high volume records, I will eat so much crow and fuck it, I’ll do it live. But there’s, like, no chance of it happening.

  87. Knew Your Nicks

    Remember Luke Walton having the best record of all times as an interim coach of the gsw/an unsung coach of the century.

  88. KnickfaninNJ

    Luke Walton was smart enough not to mess with something that was working. That’s a lot smarter than Fizdale.

  89. Z-man

    Booker is a very good young player who has been terribly underrated here from the get-go. He will be worth every bit of that max extension. Yes, crow du Jour will be on the menu.

  90. Z-man

    Booker compares very favorably to a young James Harden. He’s a very good passer for a 2, an equally lousy defender, and a brilliant offensive player. Harden got to the line more, and eventually became an MVP. Booker probably never reaches that level, but he’s still very young and can develop further. And who knows, maybe he’s not the head case that Harden is.

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