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Friday, October 31, 2014

Recap: Knicks 99, Magic 89

New York Knicks 99 Final
Recap | Box Score
89 Orlando Magic
Carmelo Anthony, SF 43 MIN | 11-22 FG | 2-3 FT | 8 REB | 2 AST | 25 PTS | +7

Just like the Knicks on this night, Melo’s performance can best be described as “good enough.” A timely late three-pointer and some decent defensive stretches were laudable, and I’d be remiss not to mention that he buried a few jumpers to get the Knicks on the board. However, in the first half there were also quite a few defensive lapses, with Melo falling prey to several well-time Magic back-cuts. Luckily the intensity picked up in the second half, and as long as the Knicks keep winning, Melo’s few foibles can be overlooked.

Ronnie Brewer, SF 17 MIN | 1-3 FG | 1-2 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 3 PTS | 0

O Ronnie Where Art Thou? Turns out Coach Woodson wasn’t kidding about playing Brewer fewer minutes, although according to Isola it was swelling in Brewer’s knee that prevented him from playing more. I suspect the Knicks defense would have been even stauncher had he been able to grab a few more minutes- feel better Ronnie!

Tyson Chandler, C 33 MIN | 4-6 FG | 4-4 FT | 6 REB | 1 AST | 12 PTS | +19

Tyson looked like he spent the entire day at Disney World. For the first few quarters, if you’d told me waiting in line for Space Mountain had turned his legs into Jello, I wouldn’t have doubted you. Slow on defense, missed alley-oops… Fortunately, the opportunity to throw-down a reverse-jam brought Tyson back to life, but only for a moment. What was it Tyson? Turkey leg make you slow? Cotton candy stomachache? Let’s hope the San Antonio Boardwalk doesn’t pose similar issues.

Jason Kidd, PG 32 MIN | 2-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 5 PTS | +6

Man, savvy veteran leadership grit heart & experience were in full supply tonight! Once again Kidd played better than his stat sheet, but my favorite bit of grit was when Jsson blatantly ignored Ray-Ray calling for the ball like he was an annoying teammate in 2k13 online. Yeah, he passed it to Melo, who promptly stepped out of bounds, but Jason Kidd was smart enough to know that on this night Raymond Felton should stay far, far away from the ball, and that’s the type of leadership Americ- I mean, the Knicks- need.

Raymond Felton, PG 37 MIN | 9-23 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 5 AST | 21 PTS | +4

Remember that one time when every player on the Knicks was freaked out because they thought they were getting traded for Carmelo, and Raymond’s coping mechanism was shooting a ton and not having many of those shots go in the hoop, and generally he just kept shooting way more than he scored, causing him to tail off very quickly from what had been an almost All-star level season? Today, Raymond provoked a flashback to an era that, contrary to what Chris Farley would say, was totally not awesome.

Rasheed Wallace, PF 14 MIN | 2-7 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 0 AST | 4 PTS | 0

Ra-sheed I love you, but you’re bringing me down. Too many deep threes on this night. Love the old man hustle, but Coach Woodson needs to figure out when to pull the trigger on Sheed’s outings. My prediction is that Sheed will oscillate between very good nights and very bad ones: it’s on Woody to know which is which and respond accordingly.

Steve Novak, SF 20 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 3 PTS | +4

Steve didn’t do anything incredibly poorly tonight, but man, he’s just not getting open. On some nights this isn’t a killer– we’ve seen how, if the other team’s defense gears up to stop Novak from getting shots, it can lead to Melo seeing more single coverage. Tonight, however, it just looked like the offense forgot about its three-point-threat.

Marcus Camby, C 4 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | 0

Mr. MC should have taken some of Sheed’s minutes. Next time, Coach Woodson?

Pablo Prigioni, PG 7 MIN | 2-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 1 AST | 5 PTS | +1

Pablo looked really good tonight, and so Woody played him….. seven minutes? *crickets*

J.R. Smith, SG 32 MIN | 9-14 FG | 1-2 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 21 PTS | +9

@NBA tweeted that Carmelo led the Knicks on this night. They were wrong. Once again, JR played out of his mind, hounding the Magic on defense, knocking down shots, and just bailing the Knicks out all over the place. On a night when the Knicks offense was as erratic as the six Houseguests from Argo, Earl Smith was Ben-Affleck-Cool, throwing out a low-pitched “You need to trust me,” and ensuring the Knicks made it out of Orlandian airspace alive.

In a way I feel bad for JR– the smart teams all recognize it’s best to have one of your better players come off the bench a la the Spurs and Manu. I suspect that for the Knicks it’s best for JR to fill that role. But put yourself in JR’s shoes: he’s doing everything right, he’s (mostly) keeping his cool, and if he asked “What more could I do?” there would be no answer. Yet it’s almost guaranteed that becoming a STARER will remain out of his reach. Let’s hope he keeps on keepin’ on.

Four Things We Saw

  1. The start of the game. Holy hell. Just ugly, ugly, ugly offense. Clanked outside shot after clanked outside shot. Even Melo’s first-quarter makes were of the “pull-up-jumper-I-don’t-like-to-watch” variety. Obviously against a better team that kind of start could be a killer.
  2. Luckily, the Knicks played the Magic, so even with a lackadaisical effort they won by ten points merely by focusing in the fourth quarter. That might be the truest indicator that these Knicks are legit; the past few years, it seemed like the Knicks couldn’t get out of their own way when it came to playing horrible teams that should give easy W’s. The mark of a good team is winning on an off-night, and that is what the Knicks did today.

    Which makes me ask- how surreal is this all? I don’t mean to jinx it, but that this Knicks team would consistently play this well, in an almost clinical fashion, is crazy. It used to be that the one thing you could count on from the Knicks was drama from game to game, yet I’m left wrapping up a recap with the basic storyline of “The Knicks played, they were eh, they won.” Regardless, I’ll take games like this half the days of the week.

  3. Oh! The Magic: sneaky decent! The talent level is way below an appropriate NBA squad (especially when missing two starters to injuries), but the Magic players, perhaps recognizing their potential on any given night to get blown out by forty points, displayed some tremendous energy. Their vision and cutting was excellent-only problem was catching the ball on some inside passes- and throughout the Magic really hustled. While I’m still doubtful about Big Baby, JJ Redick looks like he a could be a key piece on a championship-level squad, and Nikola Vucevic was intriguing. Credit to Jacques Vaughn for getting the Magic to buy into a season that could go pretty roughly.
  4. Finally: Four wind sprints for the coaches!! I like this system. Expect the excellent Spurs to push the Knicks in this area when they play later this week for ALL YOUR NUMBER ONE SPOTS IN THE POWER RANKINGS!

54 comments on “Recap: Knicks 99, Magic 89

  1. maxwell_3g

    i dont know about that felton grade. he made a lot of big shots when things were going really bad for the knicks. and he could have had several more assists if people could just make dunks. the guards struggled on D for the first three quarters, true, but that was mostly j. kidd being unable to stay with his man when the magic had two small guards out there together and kidd was forced to chase reddick around

  2. maxwell_3g

    also, i disagree that sheed took too many threes. clearly, his instructions with that lineup (when he is in there with melo) is to avoid the post and spot up at 3. his role in that scenario is a floor spacer. when he has the open 3, its his job to take it, or he wont be spacing anything for felton, chandler and melo to operate. i guess my point is he has to take the shots, we just need to hope he actually makes them. if he doesnt, there really isnt difference between him and kurt

  3. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, this was not what Felton should generally do, but I think a D was overly harsh. Unless you’re viewing it as sort of like spritzing a cat with a water bottle to make sure they stop certain behavior. So like every time Felton takes over 20 field goals, he gets a D. Then I guess I understand the D a bit.

    But overall, Felton wasn’t that bad. Just took too many shots.

  4. jon abbey

    Sheed hasn’t been good, but Camby hasn’t shown much either in his limited time.

    and point #3 about the Magic is written strangely: they’re playing without three of their best players (Nelson, Turkoglu, and Harrington) and they’ve been getting crushed recently before tonight. your points apply to this game, not their whole season thus far or going forward.

  5. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, it is worth noting that while I am thrilled with the Knicks season so far (thrilled), four of their five wins have come against teams missing their best player. Heck, in each of those wins, the opponent was actually missing two or more of their best players (Sixers were missing Bynum and Richardson, Mavs were missing Dirk and Marion and Magic were missing the aforementioned Nelson, Turkoglu and Fraggle Al).

    Good teams beat bad teams, of course, so there is nothing particularly wrong with these wins (and the other win was only against the defending champions who had just kicked Boston’s ass two days earlier), but it is worth noting.

  6. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, it is worth noting that while I am thrilled with the Knicks season so far (thrilled), four of their five wins have come against teams missing their best player. Heck, in each of those wins, the opponent was actually missing two or more of their best players (Sixers were missing Bynum and Richardson, Mavs were missing Dirk and Marion and Magic were missing the aforementioned Nelson, Turkoglu and Fraggle Al).

    yep, and the other one was the half-hearted “we feel bad for NYC” Heat game. also I think NY got really lucky that the initial game against the Nets was postponed as Brooklyn had been gearing up for that for months.

    of course you can only win the games on your schedule, but I think there’s a good chance this team comes back to earth really quickly.

    in the meantime, let’s milk it while it lasts. check that 1/8 matchup:

    http://espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/matchups

  7. John Kenney Post author

    Two points: I will not reward Felton for having more shots than points, especially when he’s taking 23 of them! To make it worse, most of them were wide-open (from the Magic PG going under the screen). He needs to knock those down, OR pull a Rondo and try to drive into better position. Could he have had more assists? Of course- Tyson’s to blame for a couple of the missed ‘oops. But “managing the game” was performed by Mr. Jason Kidd tonight, not Raymond Felton.

    Second: I’ll note the Magic’s injured players, but I wholeheartedly still believe that their talent level is incredibly low. Do we think they’re substantively better than the Cavs team that owned the Knicks two seasons ago? Even with a starting 5 of Jameer, Afflalo, Hedo, Big Baby and Vucevic that team would be in serious danger. Yet they’ve won a couple games, been competitive in a few others, and only had the 40 point blow-out once, to Brooklyn.

  8. jon abbey

    John Kenney:
    Yet they’ve won a couple games, been competitive in a few others, and only had the 40 point blow-out once, to Brooklyn.

    they’ve lost five in a row after winning the first two, and got blown out in the three before tonight, averaging just under 73 PPG (!!!). they probably wouldn’t be a playoff team even at full strength, but there are some terrible teams in the East and they did win the one game they played with Nelson and Turkoglu.

  9. BigBlueAL

    The Nets are 4-2. Losses to the Heat and Wolves (at home), wins vs the Raptors, Magic (2X) and Cavs.

    They host Boston on Thursday, that should be an interesting game.

  10. nicos

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, it is worth noting that while I am thrilled with the Knicks season so far (thrilled), four of their five wins have come against teams missing their best player. Heck, in each of those wins, the opponent was actually missing two or more of their best players (Sixers were missing Bynum and Richardson, Mavs were missing Dirk and Marion and Magic were missing the aforementioned Nelson, Turkoglu and Fraggle Al).

    Good teams beat bad teams, of course, so there is nothing particularly wrong with these wins (and the other win was only against the defending champions who had just kicked Boston’s ass two days earlier), but it is worth noting.

    To be fair, they haven’t just won, they’ve had a double digit margin in every game and three of them (Miami and both 76er games) were over midway through the third quarter. Tonight’s game was really the only sub-par performance they’ve had. Hopefully they were just looking forward to Thursday.

  11. Brian Cronin

    True, like I noted, there was nothing particularly wrong about the wins. They played weak teams and they kicked their ass. That’s exactly what they’re supposed to do. Which is great. It’s just interesting to note how each team they’ve played since Miami has been missing their best player. That changes with Memphis, of course.

  12. nicos

    Also, on the Miami win- I don’t think Miami “took it easy” on the Knicks- they’ve been pretty lax on the defensive end all season. When they put up another low energy defensive effort against a very good Memphis team, the same thing happened- they got blown out. I do think the Knicks will be lucky to get a split of the next two and even two close losses might be a better sign than some of the wins thus far.

  13. BigBlueAL

    Sure the Knicks have played opponents missing key players but technically so have the Knicks with Amar’e and Shump out. You could argue how important they really are for the Knicks but still they are easily rotation players for them.

  14. ruruland

    Doubters seem to forget that this is not just about the 5-0 “streak”, the 5 wins by double-digits, the +15 point margin, the fact that the Knicks opponents are a combined 17-7; this is about a team that under Mike Woodson has gone 23-6 and has a point margin indicative of a 65 win team. The best defensive basketball team in the NBA in that span, and they’ve played most of the best at full strength, missing guys blah blah blah.

    There will be nights throughout the year that below average young teams, playing at home, will outwork the Knicks much of the contest. The Knicks are going to lose games to good teams, have a few slip-ups against average- bad teams and they will lose a few blowouts.

    None of that is going to fundamentally change what this team has demonstrated. The structural foundation is in place and is not going to change unless further key injuries occur. In fact, the incoming pieces are actually EXACTLY what the Knicks are missing on both ends of the floor.

    I don’t think that without Amar’e the Knicks are the most efficient offense in the NBA, and I know the 3pt percentage is going to come down some.

    But I don’t see much changing defensively. Sure, there are some rebounding issues at times, and you can see what happens when the Knicks have poor energy against a team that doesn’t.

    But a trademark of virtually all old but great teams the last 30 years is that they turn it all the way up when the game is in the balance.

    And for as shitty as the Knicks played — and they will play shitty again — that ability to turn it up is what will win them games in the regular season and it’s what portends playoff success.

    Because grind-it-out is what the playoffs most often come down to. The Knicks identity is not going to change.

    60 games means winning 90% against the bottom 10, 70% against the middle ten and 50% against the top 10.

    Even two losses here is fine. But I don’t expect that to happen. I think they’ll play their…

  15. ruruland

    best game of the year in San Antonio.

    As far as Tuesday’s performance. First, Carmelo Anthony deserves plenty of criticism for the the three times he failed to get back on defense in a timely matter in the latter stages of the second quarter.

    Melo got a ridiculously bad whistle, but there’s no excuse and he knows better than that.

    Now, Tyson Chandler also had two incidents where he did exactly the same thing. And I thought that outside a couple of plays in the first three quarters and those final 6-7 minutes, he was pretty horrible defensively in the pick and roll. He also really did a poor job boxing out and going up for rebounds.

    He was pretty bad Tuesday until the 4th quarter. So was Brewer. He got beat 4-5 times in that first half, twce when he went for steals and exposed his teammates.

    Kidd and JR had absolutely no answers for Reddick.

    Felton played a very good game.

    What people don’t seem to understand is that the Magic were going under screens and not rotating off shooters in the patented high pnr.

    The shots Felton took he needed to take, and they were all good shots. If he lives on those shots he will have his most efficient year of his career.

    Kidd did no impact box score but was great in every way outside of his individual defensive match-up. He’ll do thtat every minute he’s on the floor until he can’t walk.

    Also, this another one of those nights where Melo was getting ridiculously good looks and absolutely abusing his defender and comes out with a very modest efficiency performance.

    Even if he gets 2-3 of 5-6 times he was fouled, I have a feeling we’re looking at a 20+ blowout.

    Every time Melo beat his man and got fouled with no call it turned into a little spurt of momentum for Orlando, which is kind of how it works — running with stolen money

  16. ephus

    I am becoming deeply infatuated with JR Smith. I know it is bound to lead to heartbreak and disappointment, but I cannot help myself.

    Re ‘Melo: his PnR defense in the first half was pathetic. If he does not hedge and always the PG to turn the corner easily, none of the rotations can work. Woodie got on his case, and ‘Melo picked up the effort in the second half.

  17. Frank

    ruruland: Felton played a very good game.

    What people don’t seem to understand is that the Magic were going under screens and not rotating off shooters in the patented high pnr.

    The shots Felton took he needed to take, and they were all good shots. If he lives on those shots he will have his most efficient year of his career.

    +10000000

    Even if Felton is not the greatest shooter in the world, a wide open 15 footer is a good shot in the NBA, especially if the defense is packing the paint and the roller and tightly guarding Novak etc. at the 3 point line. I don’t want to hear about Felton’s career mid-range jumpshooting, because those are not the shots he was taking. What you need is Felton’s statistics on wide open midrange J’s in rhythm — no one outside an NBA office’s stats department has that info, but my guess is that when it’s all said and done, Felton shoots way better than 37.5% in that circumstance.

    If you look at Felton’s line, he had 8 shots at the rim (only 3 for 8, rimmed out a bunch of layups), zero shots between 3-9 feet and 10-15 feet, those 8 shots from 16-23 (which were wide open), and then hit 3 of 7 from 3 point range. That is a very nice shot distribution for him, especially since the long 2’s were wide open.

    Look, this offense is about creating good shots. I would say the vast majority of Felton’s shots were shots that Woodson would want him to take. That’s all you can ask for. On another night with these same opportunities he’ll hit 14 out of 23 and get some and-1’s that the refs wouldn’t call last night, for 32 points on a TS of 60+, and we’ll all be happy.

    And totally agree with ruru and others – Tyson looked terrible on D yesterday. Vucevic was basically owning him. He ended up with a +19 but sure didn’t play like it.

  18. JC Knickfan

    Yeah I’m glad Woodie made effort to yell at Melo for PNR defense. To have measure of success Knicks have be defense stalwart team a la Pistons. I believe they can keep it up. On offense Melo being Melo shooting at 0.544. JR Smith playing to opt-up of contract and get a big payday. I say he going post career-high TS this year.

  19. JK47

    Sure, Felton needs to take the jumper when the defense goes under the screen. The problem is, he stinks at making that jumper. It’s his fatal flaw as a player. Smart opposing defenses will just go under the screen every time, and Felton isn’t good enough to make them pay.

  20. JC Knickfan

    JK47:
    Sure, Felton needs to take the jumper when the defense goes under the screen. The problem is, he stinks at making that jumper. It’s his fatal flaw as a player. Smart opposing defenses will just go under the screen every time, and Felton isn’t good enough to make them pay.

    To me Felton has shown zero inclination training hard off-season on specially on his shot. Honestly open jumper is easiest thing practice and through tons repetition anyone can get better. If defense start daring Felton shoot and he doesn’t improve this going to be on-going bitchfest throughout the season.

  21. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    The Knicks are a few more consecutive double-digit wins away from me discarding everything I think about basketball statistics and saying that this team is the ’96 Bulls.

    Kidd won’t continue to average 5.3 steals per 48 (and thus be ridiculously good at generating points for his team) and all that, but jesus, this team can play.

  22. Frank

    JK47:
    Sure, Felton needs to take the jumper when the defense goes under the screen. The problem is, he stinks at making that jumper. It’s his fatal flaw as a player. Smart opposing defenses will just go under the screen every time, and Felton isn’t good enough to make them pay.

    I know I’m in danger of sounding like THCJ here, but I don’t think we really know that Felton isn’t good enough to make that jumper, and so what you’re saying is all conjecture and bias. you can cite whatever stats you want, but unless you know how Felton shoots on wide-open 18 foot jumpers, we don’t know that he “stinks at making that jumper”. I remember last year in the OKC/SA playoffs, Tony Parker was just killing it from midrange in a similar setting as Felton (defense going under screen), and there were articles about how much better he shoots when he has an open jumper than his “averaged” midrange J stats would suggest.

    Maybe you’re right, I don’t know. But that’s just it- we don’t know. What we DO know is that one game of shooting 3 from 8 from midrange isn’t really a sufficient sample.

  23. JK47

    Felton has played almost 20,000 minutes in the NBA, and he has a sub-.500 TS% and a career .455 eFG%. Those are not the statistics of a player who is competent at shooting the basketball. Maybe I’m wrong and he’s lights out on open 18-footers after all, but I doubt it. I’d be willing to bet he’s way below average at making that shot.

  24. Frank

    JC Knickfan: To me Felton has shown zero inclination training hard off-season on specially on his shot.Honestly open jumper is easiest thing practice and through tons repetition anyone can get better. If defense start daring Felton shoot and he doesn’t improve this going to be on-going bitchfest throughout the season.

    Holy W%$^$@#. This is all based on a 3 for 8 performance in 1 game that we won by 10 points?

    FYI, Felton has shot 43% from 16-23 feet this season. The average FG% from 16-23 for guards in the NBA this season, last season, and last season is 38-39%. This year he’s shooting better from that range than Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, and Russell Westbrook. On top of that, he’s only shooting 2.3 long J’s per 40, which ranks him 29th in the league when you look at PGs playing over 25 min/game (ie. starters). There are only 39 PGs in the league playing 25 min+ per game.

    He’s shooting 37.5% from 3 point range (which incidentally is basically what he’s done the last 3 seasons if you subtract out his out-of-shape 1st half with Portland last year). The Knicks are better offensively when he’s on the court (+7.5 per 100 poss) and defensively as well (-2.9 per 100 poss).

    Sometimes I don’t understand Knick fans. We’ve won all 5 games by double digits and we’re (incorrectly) nitpicking on Felton shooting 3/8 from 16-23ft in ONE GAME.

    The reason this game was even close is because our defense SUCKED ASS until the 4th quarter. Not because Felton shot 8 long Js.

  25. JK47

    Look, I’ve never liked Felton, and his weaknesses are glaringly obvious to me. He’s a very inefficient shooter and he shoots way too much. Bad combination.

    I will give him credit for doing a pretty good job of protecting the basketball. Hopefully when Amar’e returns we will see Felton’s FGA diminish. The team is winning despite Felton’s erratic chucking, so it’s all good I guess. I’m enjoying the winning like everybody else, but I’m not going to delude myself into thinking Ray Felton is a good player.

  26. Juany8

    JK47:
    Look, I’ve never liked Felton, and his weaknesses are glaringly obvious to me. He’s a very inefficient shooter and he shoots way too much. Bad combination.

    I will give him credit for doing a pretty good job of protecting the basketball. Hopefully when Amar’e returns we will see Felton’s FGA diminish. The team is winning despite Felton’s erratic chucking, so it’s all good I guess. I’m enjoying the winning like everybody else, but I’m not going to delude myself into thinking Ray Felton is a good player.

    Jeremy Lin: 49.3 TS%, 30.8 3PT%, 6.7 assists and 2.7 turnovers per 36 minutes

    Raymond Felton: 47.3 TS%, 39.1 3PT%, 7.2 assists and 3.2 turnovers per 36 minutes

    The difference in their TS%? Felton is shooting a career worst 55% on free throws (career average of 79%) while Lin is over 90% after being below 80% his first 2 seasons. Which one seems more likely to continue? Which one is getting payed at 8 million a year vs. 3 million a year?

  27. JK47

    If Jeremy Lin never existed, I still wouldn’t like Ray Felton. The Knicks wil stilll be good despite his erratic chuckery, and when Amar’e comes back hopefully he’ll eat into Ray’s usage some. So it’s not the end of the world.

    The numbers, however, speak for themselves. Sub-.500 TS%, mid-20’s usage. Not desirable.

  28. JC Knickfan

    Frank: Holy W%$^$@#. This is all based on a 3 for 8 performance in 1 game that we won by 10 points?

    FYI, Felton has shot 43% from 16-23 feet this season. The average FG% from 16-23 for guards in the NBA this season, last season, and last season is 38-39%.This year he’s shooting better from that range than Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, and Russell Westbrook.On top of that, he’s only shooting 2.3 long J’s per 40, which ranks him 29th in the league when you look at PGs playing over 25 min/game (ie. starters).There are only 39 PGs in the league playing 25 min+ per game.

    He’s shooting 37.5% from 3 point range (which incidentally is basically what he’s done the last 3 seasons if you subtract out his out-of-shape 1st half with Portland last year). The Knicks are better offensively when he’s on the court (+7.5 per 100 poss) and defensively as well (-2.9 per 100 poss).

    Sometimes I don’t understand Knick fans. We’ve won all 5 games by double digits and we’re (incorrectly) nitpicking on Felton shooting 3/8 from 16-23ft in ONE GAME.

    The reason this game was even close is because our defense SUCKED ASS until the 4th quarter. Not because Felton shot 8 long Js.

    Honestly we discuss or complain weakness with team. Who 2nd second scorer option on team after Melo? In starting lineup it happen to Felton. He actually shooting 39% from 3’s, but still post 0.473 TS. Your tell me that 0.473 TS is average? For long-term success and trying vie for top seed, I think Felton should pass some shot and facilitate even more. Love see him get apg up 8.5-9.

  29. Frank

    I’m not saying I want Felton to shoot 23 times per game every game. I’m just saying that if a guy who is probably at least an average shooter of open jump shots is given wide open jump shots, he has to shoot them. We’re not talking Jared Jeffries or Reggie Evans here. We can’t judge this unless we know what his % are from that range with nobody covering him.

    If he doesn’t shoot them, then it is possible we don’t get a better shot during that possession. Remember, they were collapsing on the roll man and not leaving the 3 point shooters. He could drive to the hoop (where all the defenders are) or kick it back out I guess, but still, it’s hard to argue with a wide open 18 foot jump shot.

  30. Frank

    Meh. Taking about 1 per game. I’m fine with that.
    The big change in a very small sample is Tyson’s free throw rate, which is WAY down. Presumably that will get better as the year goes on.

    The bigger issue is his extremely crappy defensive rebound rate (14.7). Especially with Melo playing the 4, Tyson needs to own the defensive boards, and he definitively not doing that. On top of the rebounding, his usual defensive tenacity doesn’t seem quite up to par.

    Oh well, it’s early, and we’re 5-0 with a +15.6 margin. Tough to complain.

  31. Darrell H.

    Re. Felton.

    I’ve been a Knicks fan for 40+ years. The Linsanity run was one of the high points of those years. However, to use the parlance of my basketball playing days, Lin threw up a ton of “running garbage”. I always had this lingering feeling that I was watching “smoke and mirrors” with him. I expect Lin to have a decent career but his floor generalship is not even on the same level as Felton’s. I’ll take the Knick’s version of Felton over Lin any day of the week.

    I realize I’m not backing up my opinion with any stats, but I never gave two shits about stats when I played either. I could tell who was good and who wasn’t by what they did on the court.

    By the way, I really hope Lin proves me wrong. I really love that kid. But, somehow, I doubt that will happen!

    Feel free to ignore my “stat-free” rant. I feel better now, though…

  32. cgreene

    It’s funny the biases that have started to show up in these grades. Tyson could score for the other team and never get lower than a C bc he’s Tyson and he’s high efficiency blah blah. And Felton the exact opposite. Their grades should be absolutely flipped. Tyson plus Melo on D were the exact reason Orlando shot such a high %. Tyson was awful minus a few 4th Q minutes. He deserved the D. Felton athough shooting a bad % hit some huge momentum saving shots where the Knicks were down 5 or 6 and Felton brought them within striking distance. Maybe 1-2 of his 23 shots were “bad” shots meaning either rushed early in the clock or not wide open. Felton deserves the B-.

  33. cgreene

    Frank: Holy W%$^$@#. This is all based on a 3 for 8 performance in 1 game that we won by 10 points?

    FYI, Felton has shot 43% from 16-23 feet this season. The average FG% from 16-23 for guards in the NBA this season, last season, and last season is 38-39%.This year he’s shooting better from that range than Deron Williams, Tony Parker, Ty Lawson, Jrue Holiday, and Russell Westbrook.On top of that, he’s only shooting 2.3 long J’s per 40, which ranks him 29th in the league when you look at PGs playing over 25 min/game (ie. starters).There are only 39 PGs in the league playing 25 min+ per game.

    He’s shooting 37.5% from 3 point range (which incidentally is basically what he’s done the last 3 seasons if you subtract out his out-of-shape 1st half with Portland last year). The Knicks are better offensively when he’s on the court (+7.5 per 100 poss) and defensively as well (-2.9 per 100 poss).

    Sometimes I don’t understand Knick fans. We’ve won all 5 games by double digits and we’re (incorrectly) nitpicking on Felton shooting 3/8 from 16-23ft in ONE GAME.

    The reason this game was even close is because our defense SUCKED ASS until the 4th quarter. Not because Felton shot 8 long Js.

    THIS!!!!

  34. gbaked

    “But put yourself in JR’s shoes: he’s doing everything right, he’s (mostly) keeping his cool, and if he asked “What more could I do?” there would be no answer. Yet it’s almost guaranteed that becoming a STARER will remain out of his reach. Let’s hope he keeps on keepin’ on.”

    Yes, but he will be in serious contention for 6th man of the year. Is that not looked at as a nice award? I think winning that, will do more for his career then one year as a starter would.

    Plus, he is finishing games. Which is really what matters.

  35. Jack Knickolson

    Hey, that was a relatively ugly one, but I definitely saw some good signs amid the rather mediocre effort.

    – As you noted in Point 2, this is exactly the type of game the “Knicks of Old” would consistently lose. Looking ahead to bigger games coming up (Spurs, Grizz), playing down to competition, losing the “games you should win” were all hallmarks of the Knicks circa 2000-2012. It’s refreshing to see us actually play poorly but still win a game by clamping down on D at the end and finishing it off.
    – JR Smith is really looking good. I’ve been saying he can be the #2 scoring option with Stat out and I think he’s showing that. Combined with his defensive energy it makes sense that he’s averaging the 2nd most minutes on the team.
    – Melo had some baaaad defensive lapses, especially in the 2nd quarter, and especially in that last play of the half where he forced a shot against multiple defenders and then stayed back and complained, forcing the the Knicks to play 4 on 5 and give up an easy lay-up. But… on several occassions you could see Woodson ripping into Melo for his defensive lapses, and Melo responded. So we got that glimpse of “Old Melo”, but somehow I have faith in Woody to keep him in line. Melo and the whole team stepped up the effort and held Orlando to 13 in the 4th.
    – I’m not so mad at Ray’s effort. Fact is, we have the type of team where you know you’re gonna get points from Melo, you know you’re gonna get some from Smith, but beyond that, it’s probably going to be a rotating group of guys to put up our points every night. Some games Novak may be hot and drop 18, others it’ll be Tyson or Ray or whomever has the matchup advantage or the hot hand. This was a night where Ray got a lot of open looks and some of his 4th quarter buckets were key in preserving the lead. Regardless, I always like Ray’s grit and the way he attacks the defense, it’s provides a counter-balance to the top-of-the-key point play of Kidd and Prigioni.

  36. Juany8

    Another thing to keep in mind is that this is Felton’s first game taking over 13 shots. He mostly has limited his attempts, but I agree with Frank that at some point you have to take the shots the defense gives you. Would I prefer someone like Kyle Lowry? Of course, but there’s a reason Felton was available and Lowry wasn’t, I think Felton has been very solid on both ends of the floor so far, and his playmaking has been excellent considering how many other ball dominating players he shares the floor with. Prigs, Kidd, Melo, and JR all have a case for having the ball in their hands for extended periods, yet none of them are quite as good as penetrating the defense and getting others good looks inside. This, along with some good D and spacing, has been Felton’s main value to the Knicks

  37. jon abbey

    I don’t think any of you guys are saying the right thing about Felton (unless I missed it). those wide open 18 footers are one thing with 6 or 7 seconds left on the shot clock, another thing if no one else has touched the ball that possession. he needs to look to get other people involved for the first 16 or 18 seconds of each shot clock, then I could care less how many shots he takes after that. obviously the occasional exception is fine, but last night he shot too many long jumpers early in the shot clock, which I don’t like.

  38. ephus

    Tyson Chandler has not been as efficient offensively near the rim as he was last year. He is averaging 65% near the rim this year, compared to 75% last year. http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tyson%20Chandler

    There have been a number of missed alley-oops. When he was sick against Philly at MSG, he noticably struggled to get up the court on offense. I hope that we see TC return to last year’s form soon.

  39. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ephus:
    Tyson Chandler has not been as efficient offensively near the rim as he was last year.He is averaging 65% near the rim this year, compared to 75% last year. http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Tyson%20Chandler

    There have been a number of missed alley-oops.When he was sick against Philly at MSG, he noticably struggled to get up the court on offense.I hope that we see TC return to last year’s form soon.

    His TS% is 68 instead of 70 this season. I wouldn’t worry about Chandler. He’s up +1.4 ORB/48 this season so far, and he’s shooting like 84% on his FT. He’ll average out over time.

  40. Frank

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: His TS% is 68 instead of 70 this season. I wouldn’t worry about Chandler. He’s up +1.4 ORB/48 this season so far, and he’s shooting like 84% on his FT. He’ll average out over time.

    Agree – I’m not worried about his offense at all. It’s his defense that has me worried. Other than the Miami game, he just doesn’t look great out there, and his defensive rebounding has been very ordinary.

  41. Frank

    This Royce White thing is getting ugly. Someone needs to get in that kid’s ear and tell him to stop with the Twitter. It doesn’t help anyone. Even if he’s telling the truth, it does you no good to call out your employer when they are holding all the cards.

  42. Juany8

    Frank:
    This Royce White thing is getting ugly. Someone needs to get in that kid’s ear and tell him to stop with the Twitter. It doesn’t help anyone. Even if he’s telling the truth, it does you no good to call out your employer when they are holding all the cards.

    I don’t think he’s going to make it in the league, he does have a serious condition but somehow he seems to think he’s entitled to an NBA career. Some adjustments for his condition are perfectly reasonable, publicity stunts that make the team look bad are gonna get him benched, and eventually released.

    If he seriously can’t stick in the league due to his condition then he’s right, he should prioritize health over money. The problem is he declared for the NBA draft anyways and expects an NBA team to bend to the demands of an unproven rookie. Greg Oden couldn’t stay in the league due to health issues, it sucks but you don’t see him bitching out the Blazers management in public and missing practices. If White wants people to take his condition seriously he can’t act like it’s a more pressing concern than any of the other million health issues around the league. Delonte West is bipolar, do you think he makes demands before showing up for training camp every year?

  43. Z-man

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: The Knicks are a few more consecutive double-digit wins away from me discarding everything I think about basketball statistics and saying that this team is the ’96 Bulls.Kidd won’t continue to average 5.3 steals per 48 (and thus be ridiculously good at generating points for his team) and all that, but jesus, this team can play.

    Who are you and what have you done with Jowles?

    Seriously, It should be no surprise that the Knicks have been playing well, this is a deep, veteran team with bonafide NBA rotation players, all-NBA class offensive and defensive specialists, and one of the top 5 smartest players ever to play the game as a coach on the floor, and a head coach that seems ideal for this group of players. That said, the season really starts tomorrow. Thanksgiving will be a better time to heap on the accolades should we sustain most of this. And for the record, THCJ, your advanced WoW stats absolutely love a number of our players: Chandler, Kidd, Brewer, Camby, Novak…and like (salary aside) Melo, JR and Amare.

  44. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Z-man: Who are you and what have you done with Jowles?

    Seriously, It should be no surprise that the Knicks have been playing well, this is a deep, veteran team with bonafide NBA rotation players, all-NBA class offensive and defensive specialists, and one of the top 5 smartest players ever to play the game as a coach on the floor, and a head coach that seems ideal for this group of players. That said, the season really starts tomorrow. Thanksgiving will be a better time to heap on the accolades should we sustain most of this. And for the record, THCJ, your advanced WoW stats absolutely love a number of our players: Chandler, Kidd, Brewer, Camby, Novak…and like (salary aside) Melo, JR and Amare.

    http://www.thenbageek.com/players/222-amare-stoudemire?direction=desc&sort=season

    Amar’e sucks. Has for several years.

    It’s all about efficiency. And right now, in point margin, SRS, and every other stat, the Knicks are the best team of all-time. Like, seriously. THE BEST TEAM OF ALL-TIME. I don’t think it can continue like this. If they continue to play at even 90% of the effectiveness they have, they’ll challenge the ’96 Bulls. That’s not hyperbole: they’ve been THAT dominant. But given that Jason Kidd has a +.600 WP48 (owing primarily to his ridiculous STL/TO ratio) and the rest of the team is shooting like it’s a college 3-point line AND not turning the ball over AND forcing turnovers AND being dominant on both sides of the ball re: eFG%, I’d say it’s only a matter of time before they come back down to earth.

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