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Thursday, November 27, 2014

Reading the Teague Leaves

With James Dolan’s proclaimation that the organization doesn’t plan on making any changes to the roster or coaching staff this season less than two months old, the Knick rumor mill is stirring up again, this time with Jeff Teague reportedly the new apple of the Knicks’ eye.

Acquiring Teague is more feasible than Lowry given how much Teague has fallen off this season and how well Lowry has played. Teague’s contract runs through the 2016-17 season at $8 million per year, and his decline is mostly a result of a poor perimeter shooting. His true shooting percentage hovered just below the league average in his previous two seasons, but with his new contract in tow, he’s dropped down to 50.7%.

At twenty-five years old, Teague probably won’t get much better, and with Danny Ferry seemingly following the Daryl Morey strategy of staying flexible with short term value contracts while going whatever direction — rebuild or win now — in which the market offers the best value, it makes sense that Atlanta would be open to losing Teague for a flyer on Iman Shumpert and the opportunity in summer 2015 to look for a better way to spend $8 million.

The big question though is, “Why are the Knicks back in the trade market?” With the Bobcats heading towards thirty-seven wins and currently owning the tiebreaker, the Knicks would likely need to close the season on an 18-12 tear to overtake them. Considering nineteen of the Knicks’ final thirty games are on the road, even adding Teague for free likely wouldn’t punch the Knicks into the playoffs.

Any trade, therefore, is not about this season, in which case they’d be better off waiting to see what Melo does in the summer before making commitments, so this front office mood swing likely relates some news relating to Melo’s thought process for the summer. The question is how might they relate?

Let’s start with three assumptions:

  1. The Knicks’ interest in Teague is real and not just clickbait.
  2. As Stephen A. Smith said, “[The Knicks are] hellbent on holding onto [Melo] and doing everything they can short of James Dolan getting on his knees as a billionaire and begging the guy…”
  3. Carmelo Anthony understands the Knicks’ situation and has been properly prepped PR-wise on how to best achieve his desire. His vague statements about wanting to stay in New York and wanting to win could mean anything, just as Lebron’s statement in June of 2010 — “[Cleveland] does have an edge [in re-signing me]” — turned out to be gobbledygook.

If these are all true, then I only see two possible ways to interpret a trade for Teague.

If the Knicks top priority is retaining Anthony, then they undoubtedly will pass any trade through Melo and his people, so if this trade is really in the works, there’s a good chance Melo has endorsed it. If that is the case then Melo is likely leaning towards staying and is only looking for the team to improve enough to justify that decision.

Why? Well, think about it from a PR standpoint. If Melo was leaning towards or had already decided to bolt, his best option would be to request that the Knicks don’t make any moves, a request that a team desperate to keep Melo would have to fulfill. If the Knicks trade youth and picks for so-so contracts like Teague’s and Melo still leaves, it would be viewed as a betrayal as KB commenter Hubert so eloquently expressed. Not only would he have forsaken the team to which he requested a trade, but he would be leaving behind a team that most likely at his request had just sacrificed its future to make a roster that makes no sense without foundational player like Anthony.

Approving a trade for a player like Teague is a lose-lose proposition for Melo if he plans to leave.

Furthermore, you don’t transform a thirty win team into a title contender by trading for players like Teague. If you’re near broke and need to become a millionaire in a year — a pretty accurate description of the Knicks’ position and Melo’s purported championship dreams — you make high risk, high reward investments and hope they pan out. Jeff Teague is a savings account; he is guaranteed competence. The Knicks need volatile assets or as Daryl Morey says, “smart risk”, and the value you can get from max salary slots is far more volatile.

Therefore, if the Knicks do trade for Teague, it strongly suggests that Melo’s desire to contend for a title is tertiary, behind his desire to stay in New York and to play on a guaranteed playoff team.

If this is the case, Knick fans can look forward to wearing their Melo jerseys for years to come. They can also expect more trades for more players like Teague — think Eric Gordon, Tyreke Evans and OJ Mayo. More playoff wins in the near future are in store too if Melo stays healthy given the tragicomedy that is the Eastern Conference. However, Knick fans can also cross out any chance at a title for probably the next decade.

The other possibility is that Melo is being as vague with the Knick front office as he is with the press, and the front office is freaking out. Whereas a decade ago you mostly only saw stars take pay cuts for title chances late in their careers, in recent times stars firmly in their primes have sacrificed guaranteed dollars, even leaving glamorous cities, in search of a chance to win it all. If Melo is playing coy, the Knick front office may well be panicking, just like the Magic were towards the end of Dwight Howard’s tenure when they reacquired Hedo Turkoglu, traded for Gilbert Arenas and overpaid Glen Davis and Jason Richardson. We all know how that worked out.

In any case, Knick fans who want more than just competitive basketball should dread the possibility of a trade for Teague. The rebuild-on-the-fly strategy has been the core reason for the Knicks’ struggles over the last dozen years. Atlanta and Toronto are younger, have more cap flexibility and future picks, and have a ton more wins than the Knicks. If any of these teams should be sacrificing present talent for future potential, it’s New York. Here’s hoping it’s just a baseless rumor…

51 comments on “Reading the Teague Leaves

  1. DBQ

    I know what you’re saying, but if the price for Teague is just Shumpert, I think we have to do it.

    We already have two other servicable shooting guards (JR isn’t going anywhere, but still contributes 13 ppg. Hardaway is steadily improving). We have point guards who are barely servicable, all of whom should be backups at best.

    Teague, despite his shooting woes, remains a Top 15 point guard in the league, perhaps even Top 12. He is a fantastic athlete who can drive and create his own shot. His contact is not cheap, but $8 million a year for a Top 15 point guard is not ridiculous. Plus he’s only 25.

    You point out he might not get any better, but at that age he probably won’t get significantly worse either. If Shump is the price, I’d pay it. Now. We NEED real PG, and Lowry is too expensive right now.

  2. swiftandabundant

    @1. I agree. I wouldn’t want to give up a first, but if its Felton, Shump, MWP and some second rounders, then do it! Teague is good! Much better than Felton. And you aren’t really giving up youth when you are acquiring a 25 year old PG who is good. I get wanting to remain flexible for 2015 to some degree. But I also think you have to look at the team you have and think “how can we make this team better.” And replacing Felton with Teague definitely does that. He’s younger and better than Felton and could be our starting PG for the next 3 years. That’s huge in my opinion. Its about creating a team and having continuity to build an identity. You get Teague now and then in the off season you replace Woodson with say Jeff Van Gundy. Those two moves alone would address two of our biggest issues. Plus you still have the expiring contracts of Chandler, Amare and Bargnani next year to make more moves. Go for it! Maybe Teague helps us get into the playoffs this year. Sure being an 8th seed would suck but not making the playoffs would suck way worse and at least as the 8th seed there’s the miracle chance we can upset Indiana, which would be awesome.

  3. ephus

    I was wrong in earlier thread that the Knicks could trade Carmelo Anthony during the stub period between the end of the Knicks season and July 1. http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q99

    So, if the Knicks do not trade Carmelo now (and there is zero chatter of that possibility), the only possibilities are:
    (1) Melo does not exercise his ETO,
    (2) Melo exercises his ETO and is signed to a new contract by the Knicks,
    (3) Melo decides he wants to go to a team that does not have the cap space to sign him, and the Knicks do a sign-and-trade with that team, or
    (4) Melo goes to a team with the cap space to sign him and the Knicks get nothing.

  4. Zanzibar

    I’m suffering from trade Fateague but reading the teague leaves, this tells me Knicks have given up on Rondo altogether. Looks like Melo was unable to persuade Rondo to force a trade to the Knicks. But other than that I’m confused. Why were we pursuing Faried who plays at Melo’s best position (the 4), is terrible defender, and thrives only in transition game? Wouldn’t a solid 3andD guy like Shump for 4m under a coach like a Van Gundy be a better fit? Did Melo approve that trade?

    Lakers may not want Melo since plan seems to be to sign Love in 2015 and they wouldn’t have cap if Melo is signed. Clips won’t trade Griffin and Jordan, who Doc Rivers is high on, is having a career year. Unless they collapse in playoffs, I’m not sure Sterling would want Melo other than for pure marketing purposes (like the Lakers). That leaves the last team Melo mentioned (thru sources) Chicago. Why didn’t he force a trade to Bulls at deadline for Mirotic and 2 1st round draft picks? Bulls would then have Rose/Butler/Melo/Noah/Gibson/Dunleavy/Felton/Snell in weak EC and Knicks receive value. PLUS he could theoretically then opt out and re-sign for super max (or anything between 96m and 129m). An S&T is still possible but – paging Ephus – could that be for anything over 96m?

  5. DBQ

    @swift. Starting caliber PG’s don’t grow on trees. Teague clearly is one. If the price is right, we do it.

    If Melo had a real PG, he would be infinitely more effective.

  6. ephus

    An S&T is still possible but – paging Ephus – could that be for anything over 96m?

    A Sign & Trade is limited to 4 years and $96 million. He would be walking away from $23.5 million next year from the Knicks. The net benefit for Melo would be getting 3 years/$72.5 million for opting out.

  7. thenamestsam

    @swift. Starting caliber PG’s don’t grow on trees. Teague clearly is one. If the price is right, we do it.

    The price is already wrong. It’s not about what you give up for Teague, it’s about the fact that he’s a mediocre player on a contract that’s giving you no excess value. Teague for 8M for 3 years isn’t an asset unless he significantly improves from the level he has played at this year. That level would still be a big upgrade for the Knicks, but to what end? A better chance at snagging the 8th seed and a 1st round beating this year? A better chance of getting a mediocre seed and beating a shit team before a 2nd round beatdown next year? The Knicks are miles from championship contending – they need to be patient and they need to take smart risks with high upsides. Teauge is neither of those things.

  8. Zanzibar

    A Sign & Trade is limited to 4 years and $96 million. He would be walking away from $23.5 million next year from the Knicks. The net benefit for Melo would be getting 3 years/$72.5 million for opting out.

    He’d be walking away also from 23.5m and a better team if he had forced a trade to Bulls by deadline! That tells me he’s probably staying a Knick. Winning a chip appears not to be that high a priority for Melo. If it were, he would not have eliminated options like Phoenix. Location/money are his (and his wife’s) highest priorities. He will likely be a Knick next season for about 110m.

  9. Owen

    And I agree about Melo. Winning a championship is his highest priority but he can’t play anywhere other than New York or LA by all accounts….

  10. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, as we’ve discussed, Melo’s motivations continue to make no sense. Even though he says returning to the Knicks is his top priority, he really means that winning a championship is his top priority and the Knicks are just his first choice to do so. However, returning to the Knicks would not lead him to a championship any time soon, and yet it looks like a near certainty that he will return to the Knicks, sooo….

    Or maybe winning championships isn’t a top priority for him, either, but also another case of him saying priority when he meant choice! So his first choice would be to win a championship, but he can settle for just being a Knick.

  11. Totes McGoats

    Ehh..I’m ambivalent on Teague. Maybe if we still had Coach Pringles i’d be excited about the rumor. Teague is a nice talent, but he hit his ceiling last season. Or..if Mills could miraculously flip it into this or some variation of it
    http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=kwb5tzp ,
    I could hope for a trade of Teague involving the Knicks. Now..Holiday might be over paid but he is only 23 and has plenty of time to live up to his contract. But honestly I have lost interest in this season unless the team trades Melo or if some team becomes enamored with STAT and we can add another all star. Beyond that..I’m pretty much waitin to see what Mills does in the offseason..he has a ridiculously huge task

  12. Brian Cronin

    One thing that might be driving the opt out – technically Melo can’t be wined and dined by other teams unless he opts out, so if he wants his ego massaged before he inevitably returns to the Knicks, he would need to opt out. So if he wants the free agent “experience” and having all the other teams tell him he is pretty, then I guess the opt out is a must.

  13. DBQ

    @#8…I hear ya, but we can’t just punt on this season. Especially when our draft pick is in Denver

    Melo has not played with an above average PG since joining the Knicks, unless you count the couple of months he was here with Chauncey at the beginning. Teague is still very good, and constitutes a SUBSTANTIAL upgrade at the position. At 25, he can get better. Give Melo some help!

    Would you rather parlay more assets into Lowry? I’d personally rather not part with another pick or Hardaway. Shump for Teague is acceptable.

  14. massive

    The Knicks simply can’t go past the trade deadline with Raymond Felton as the starting point guard. They just can’t. Please don’t make me sit through more Felton.

    The 2015 cap space doesn’t make much sense as an argument for not pursuing Teague (who is a bad player). A 26 year old point guard making $8 million is a moveable asset. The only way he won’t be trade able is if we don’t get rid of Mike Woodson, who is quite possibly the worst thing you can do to a guy who thrives in transition.

    I’m saying all of this because I’m hoping we can get Teague and then flip him, along with some other assets, for Kyrie Irving at some point in the future. Knowing Cleveland’s management, I think that’s possible. And I just really do not want to see Raymond Felton in a Knicks jersey anymore. I’ve had enough missed lay ups and screens gone under for one lifetime.

  15. Frank

    I said it in a previous thread, but I’m not so against trading THJ. Yes he’s nice, but he literally does nothing other than score (and score well). If you put his stats into the Player Season Finder at B-R (even with very generous limits), it’s very difficult to find a player with his usage (18.9) and utter lack of other contributions in terms of rebounds (TRB 4.1), assists (AST% 7.0), etc. If you put in a USG of 18+, TRB <5, and AST% <8, the ones that come up are Kevin Martin, Marco Belinelli, and Anthony Morrow. He doesn't seem to have the knack for scoring (ie. flopping) that Kevin Martin has (THJ's FTR is only 17% this year vs. Martin's career rate of 48%). He's probably more athletic than either Morrow or Belinelli. But I think Belinelli might be a very appropriate comp for THJ.

    I'm not sure that I would let a Belinelli-level player stop me if I think Kyle Lowry is the PG of the next 4 years for the Knicks.

    If Toronto is even mildly interested, I'd tell them Felton/Shump/lottery protected 2018 pick for Lowry. Or Felton/THJ/top-20 protected 2018 pick with protection dropping by 5 slots per year (on either offer) thereafter for Lowry.

  16. johnlocke

    say we trade for lowry (shump, felton, the pick we don’t want to give up) and then he plays well and we sign him to a long-term contract (3 years, $36M let’s say) how does that impact our 2015 ability to sign another max player?

  17. flossy

    Melo has not played with an above average PG since joining the Knicks, unless you count the couple of months he was here with Chauncey at the beginning. Teague is still very good, and constitutes a SUBSTANTIAL upgrade at the position. At 25, he can get better. Give Melo some help!

    Would you rather parlay more assets into Lowry? I’d personally rather not part with another pick or Hardaway. Shump for Teague is acceptable.

    Hell, yeah I’d rather spend more on Lowry! Jeff Teague is the definition of “nothing special.” The man is not a top 12 point guard–he is more or less a replacement level player, and one who simply can’t shoot the 3. For $8 million/year, plus whatever assets we trade, plus the loss of salary cap flexibility after the Chandler/Stoudmire/Bargnani contracts expire, that is a horrible deal. Jeff Teague is not a difference maker, and just because Raymond Felton continues to plumb the depths of suckitude on a nightly basis doesn’t mean we need to blow our wad on a PG whose game can be summed up as “meh.”

    How about this–if the Hawks want to unload a PG that they just signed to a long term contract, they can send *us* some assets.

  18. johnlocke

    @ Frank — the downside risk is not only that Lowry becomes yet another fat PG after getting paid, but also that he may not sign w/ the Knicks long-term after this season after we have given up all our young assets…that’s the reason not to include Hardaway. He’s our only young player (besides a distant Tyler) that is viewed as a nice asset.

    As an aside, our recent history of nice young assets we’ve moved is interesting: Fields once was, now terrible in Toronto, Shump once was, now not very good in NY, Cope was found by us, now he gets no PT in Indiana —> hope THJ doesn’t go that route. The only young player we’ve actually drafted and then let go and really regretted is David Lee right? Some may say Galinari, but Melo was worth it for him IMHO

  19. Brian Cronin

    The Knicks aren’t getting Teague without losing either THJ or a first rounder and he is not worth either.

  20. JK47

    Once again– OPPORTUNITY COST.

    If you have assets you’re willing to spend, you don’t spend them on Jeff Goddamn Teague. Teague is not a massive upgrade, even over the tub of goo that currently plays the point for NYK, and giving up the assets prevents you from making better deals in the future. Say it with me again– OPPORTUNITY COST. This shit just blows my mind, that grown adults cannot see this.

  21. max fisher-cohen Post author

    I agree that Shumpert is not important. What is important is 2015 cap space and the $8m we’d owe Teague could be the difference between getting someone like David West, Kenneth Faried or Tobias Harris and someone like Kevin Love, Marc Gasol, Rajon Rondo or Goran Dragic. Would you trade Marc Gasol for Kenneth Faried and Jeff Teague? Hell no. But that’s what the Knicks would be doing by throwing away cap space.

    I know these are best case scenarios that I’m talking about, but one of the points I was trying to make — the part about luck and volatile assets — is that rule #1 in team construction should always be to leave yourself a chance in a best case scenario to be a great team. Trading for Teague would minimize if not eliminate that chance, and if Melo wants a plan that at least makes a title conceivable, trading for Teague would be a move in the wrong direction.

    For a better team it might make sense but the Knicks need a lot of luck to become contenders.

    Maybe the easiest way to think about is worst case scenario if the Knicks don’t acquire Teague is they get a better draft pick in 2015 and have $8m extra to spend. How hard is it to get a Jeff Teague quality player with $8m? IMO, not hard at all, and again, that’s a worst case scenario.

  22. DRed

    Teague has really sucked this season. Almost Felton level sucking. And his realistic upside is what-league average point guard? Maybe slightly above average? That’s not a guy you give up assets for. I am sympathetic to Frank’s point about THJ being a remarkably one dimensional player so far, but his perceived value has to be decent and it would be silly to throw him away for a nothing special guy. And it’s not like Carmelo is going to give up millions of dollars for the privilege of playing along side Jeff Teague.

  23. Frank

    Alan Hahn just wrote a short sulia post about Rondo and how he could theoretically force himself to the Knicks. Would anyone here do this–

    Rondo, Gerald Wallace, Jeff Green

    for

    Amare, THJ, Shump, Felton, 2018 protected #1?

    I don’t think Rondo’s a great fit here but he’s definitely better than Felton or Teague. Jeff Green I think is woefully miscast as a primary offensive option, but as a second scorer I think he’d be pretty good, and I recall that he’s a pretty reasonable defender — certainly has the size and quickness to credibly guard guys like Durant and Lebron as well as anyone can. wallace is terrible but that’s the cost of doing business. Then we could trot out Rondo, Pablo or JR, Green, Melo, and Chandler with JR, Tyler, Bargnani (ick), Murry, and K-Mart as the main bench players. Trade Beno and MWP for whatever you can get for them. Our 2015 cap plan would be long gone but that’s really a pretty good lineup and theoretically isn’t bad on the defensive side either.

    I’ll tell you what though – Boston is going to OWN this division in a few years with all the draft picks and basically clean cap after next year.

  24. DBQ

    Max, what’s particularly morbid is that list of free agents you listed, with the exception of maybe Love. Would any of those guys suddenly vault us into serious contention? Doubtful. Maybe Rondo.

    Like everyone else here I’m just fed up with Felton. If the Knicks can’t put somebody out there better, it’s truly pathetic. That Kings game was painful to watch, especially live. SOMETHING has to change (beyond Woodson getting fired).

    Is that too much to ask? Perhaps that’s impossible without the team shooting itself in the foot.

    So do we just punt? I just can’t find that acceptable, especially with our pick elsewhere.

  25. ephus

    I think that STAT for Rondo/Wallace is the skeleton for a great trade next year, if Rondo is making it clear that he will not re-up in Boston. I do not think that Boston is close to trading Rondo now.

  26. lavor postell

    Teague has sucked this season so obviously Atlanta is trying to get out from a contract they are regretting doling out, so if they want us to take that deal from them they need to throw in a sweetener. Picks either this year (unlikely given the wankfest going on over this draft) or 2016 would be nice as would say Millsap. This may involve us throwing Bargnani in the deal to make it match and maybe we use our 3 mill in cash to ease the financial burden on them this season. Atlanta is way under the tax line, so it wouldn’t have any tax implications to it.

    I’m not completely opposed to acquiring Teague if we can pry another asset out of the deal rather than simply praying he returns to his level of play prior to this season. Millsap I think would be worth it for us, given how well his perimeter shooting and ability to defend the 4 would pair with Melo. Again playing a lot of minutes at the 2 has also not helped Teague this season, which I think is more of an aberration. Prior to his play this season I think 8 mill a season for Teague is pretty close to what you’d have expected him to get on the open market.

    Is there a doubt that Reggie Jackson gets 8 mill per from somebody when he’s a free agent in 2015? His offensive numbers aren’t all that great, but playing next to a superstar like Durant and one of the best shooting big men in Ibaka hides a lot of warts. He’s 23 now and his numbers actually compare very similarly to Teague.

    Ultimately Teague doesn’t move the needle enough by himself to sacrifice potential cap space unless you can get a pick or Millsap out of the trade. Maybe Horford is a possibility as well though he’s injured.

  27. flossy

    Umm… Paul Millsap is not getting traded for the Knicks as a throw-in so that we’ll take back Jeff Teague. Teague might be a bit overpaid given his drop in production, but short of performing satanic rituals in the locker room at halftime I can’t imagine why the Hawks would ever be that desperate to trade him. And if they are willing to move both Millsap and Teague they could do waaaay better than whatever the Knicks can offer. Hell, I bet Morey would do Lin/Asik for Teague and Millsap in a heartbeat.

  28. The Ghost of Ted Nelson

    I was wrong in earlier thread that the Knicks could trade Carmelo Anthony during the stub period between the end of the Knicks season and July 1

    Thanks, Ephus. (I was the one who asked the question that you answered several threads ago. I appreciate the follow-up.)

    Nothing about the Carmelo Anthony situation makes any sense to me. I think Brian expressed it perfectly in #12. (And the thing that is currently most annoying to me about Anthony is that he is just flat out idiotic to limit himself to big markets. Instead of trying to get his friends to come play with him in NY, why doesn’t he just go to them? Go to Boston if you want to play with Rondo. Go to Cleveland to play with Irving? Go to Phoenix to win ball games. Pretty much any team in the NBA other than NY will bring him closer to a championship.)

    Starting caliber PG’s don’t grow on trees. Teague clearly is one.

    The real TN used to say that PG was the easiest position to replace. I can’t remember his reasons, exactly, and I think I disagreed with them, but I can say with some certainty that Ted would be staunchly against this Teague trade. (Lowry, on the other hand, he’d probably make a case for, as Felton was one of his least favorite players even before the 2010 signing).

    And it seems that an under-appreciated sports curse is the “NYK PG curse”. How can NY, the veritable breeding ground of great PGs, have such a horrible history, dating back to the Clyde Frazier trade. We traded Mark Jackson for Charles Smith, we turned Marbury insane, and when God gave us Jeremy Lin we shat on it. It’s been a nightmare position for 35 years now.

    Please don’t make me sit through more Felton.

    Nobody is making you watch the games. In fact, it would help the Knicks a lot more if everybody stopped watching the Knicks altogether. (At least until they get their shit together).

  29. Hubert

    Also, I’d put my money on this:

    The other possibility is that Melo is being as vague with the Knick front office as he is with the press, and the front office is freaking out.

    We freak out well.

  30. mase

    We’d be better off cultivating thj at pg. Let’s hire senior in the off season to coach him… It’s a long shot I know but so is Teague at pg

  31. lavor postell

    Yeah I get that acquiring Millsap isn’t very likely but my point was really more of if you’re going to do Atlanta a favor of removing a long-term salary off their hands you need to get something else alongside of that, because Teague isn’t enough. Teague is putting up a shockingly bad shooting season which probably has more to do with him playing off the ball this season. According to basketball-reference he’s playing 28% of his minutes at the 2 this season versus 2% last season and a previous career high of 3%.

    I would assume a player who’s main strength is penetrating into the lane with the ball doesn’t thrive playing off the ball for a larger share of minutes this season than ever before.

    2010-11: eFG% .467 TS% .521 3P% .375
    2011-12: eFG% .514 TS% .551 3P% .342
    2012-13: eFG% .496 TS% .543 3P% .359

    2013-14: eFG% .437 TS% .507 3P% .256

    That is so far out of his trajectory without having suffered a major injury that may be there’s something else going on other than Teague just sucking and forgetting how to shoot. I don’t have Synergy and I don’t know where else I could take a look at his shot distribution in terms of shot type.

    http://stats.nba.com/playerShotchart.html?PlayerID=201952&Season=2013-14

    Based on his shot chart the shot frequency at most locations don’t look like they’ve changed a ton, but he is shooting a mere 47.52% around the basket which is out of whack for his past 3 seasons. In addition he’s shooting horribly from above the break on either side, to the top of the key behind the arc which is also very inconsistent with how he’s shot the ball from those locations the past 3 years.

    I’m not advocating that we trade for Teague, but if we could pry a 2014 or 16 pick from Atlanta that would make it worth since I think at least we can all agree young players on cheap contracts is something we definitely need regardless of who or what we end up building around.

  32. Frank

    I have a funny feeling this Rondo thing is not just someone blowing smoke — ie. there are probably actual conversations going on and not just linkbait. Even Isola is getting into it on twitter now.

    For Ainge – the reason to trade Rondo now is that he’s a shell of the player he was before the injury — it’s likely that it’s just because he’s recovering from the ACL but maybe he’ll never fully recover, or he won’t recover in time to regain his full trade potential. The other reason is that the Knicks are desperate now, and may not be next year. And next year Ainge will be under the gun trying to either decide how much to re-sign a (maybe not 100%) Rondo for, or being in a position where he HAS to deal him in order to get something before Rondo walks.

    The last reason is that by bleeding us of young assets now, he sets Boston up for a new dominant era in the Atlantic (and much of the East) after next season, with basically all of NY and BKN’s draft picks, a completely clean cap, and tankerrific drafts this year and next.

  33. Donnie Walsh

    by bleeding us of young assets now, he sets Boston up for a new dominant era in the Atlantic

    Through it all, the thing I hate Dolan for most is for making me wish I was a Celtics fan.

  34. lavor postell

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/232015/Rumor-Tim-Duncan-Could-Retire-At-End-Of-Current-Season

    Don’t know if this is a real thing or if anybody saw this but man it will be sad when Duncan hangs it up. Best player of his generation for me well above Shaq and Kobe for his longevity, consistency and willingness to work within a system, rather than demanding the system be built around him. Will never forget his 2003 Western Conf. Semis Game 6 performance against Shaq (37-16-4) or his near quadruple double in the closeout Game 6 of the Finals against the Nets (21-20-10-8).

  35. nicos

    I really want no part of Rondo- his WS has dropped every year for the last five years (and it’s not likely he’s going to reverse that trend coming off of the ACL) plus he’s going to want something close to max dollars in 2015. And not only would he cost the Knick’s every conceivable asset they have he’s also going to come with extra salary baggage like Wallace attached. I’d actually rather take Teague than pay Rondo 15m and still be paying Wallace 10m in 2015.

  36. johnlocke

    What’s funny about this is we have 4 point guards…another option is to just play Raymond less minutes and give some minutes to Beno and Murry.

  37. ephus

    Bill Simmons just posted his annual Worst Contracts in the NBA column.

    No surprise that the Knicks take 1 (Amar’e), 3 (Bargnani) and 8 (J.R. Smith).

    Nets take 4 (Joe Johnson), 5 (Deron Williams) and 21 (Brook Lopez).

    And the progeny of Knicks and Nets FO bad decisions also rank high: 2 (Gerald Wallace), 25 (Steve Novak).

    Knicks FO can take pride in not matching the bad contracts ranked 20 (Jeremy Lin) and 24 (Landry Fields).

    At a minimum, Simmons is a good reflection of the conventional wisdom in NBA front offices.

  38. Hubert

    How about this–if the Hawks want to unload a PG that they just signed to a long term contract, they can send *us* some assets.

    This

  39. lavor postell

    Hahaha if this is real I don’t know whether to cry or laugh

    http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/232023/Knicks-Interested-In-Trading-For-Jeremy-Lin

    If it’s Chandler, Shump and Udrih for Lin and Asik I would be perfectly fine with that. Considering the ridiculous nature of the final years on both Asik and Lin’s contracts we may even be able to hold on to Shump, but since it’s Morey I can’t see this happening without us getting completely fleeced.

  40. Hubert

    Is there a doubt that Reggie Jackson gets 8 mill per from somebody when he’s a free agent in 2015? His offensive numbers aren’t all that great, but playing next to a superstar like Durant and one of the best shooting big men in Ibaka hides a lot of warts.

    No. But there is also no doubt that 5 months into his first season w that team, we’ll trade whoever we just drafted and future pick for him when that team has buyer’s remorse and we’re desperately in need of a PG again because 2015/16 Jeff Teague sucks ass and is making $8 mil and we don’t have any assets to get a real PG. It’s the circle of life.

  41. Hubert

    What’s funny about this is we have 4 point guards…another option is to just play Raymond less minutes and give some minutes to Beno and Murry.

    Seriously, how great is this comment?

    You’re too smart to coach the Knicks, John Locke. Way too smart.

  42. bidiong

    When the Knicks suck this message board is far more comical than when they are playing well. I’ve been laughing catching up today.

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