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Thursday, April 24, 2014

Quick Reaction: Raptors 90, Knicks 85

Toronto Raptors 90 Final
Recap | Box Score
85 New York Knicks
Carmelo Anthony, SF
13-31 FG | 5-8 FT | 11 REB | 4 AST | 35 PTS | -2

35 points, but on 31 shots. But considering no one else wanted to make shots, it’s hard to blame him.

Josh Harrellson, F
0-4 FG | 2-2 FT | 5 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | +5

31 minutes and only 2 points. He missed all his shots from the field.

Tyson Chandler, C
3-4 FG | 5-6 FT | 10 REB | 0 AST | 11 PTS | 0

Another double double, but he really shouldn’t be playing 43 minutes a night.

Toney Douglas, G
8-19 FG | 2-3 FT | 4 REB | 4 AST | 22 PTS | +3

Heated up late, but still is the main reason we can’t have peace in the middle east.

Landry Fields, G
1-7 FG | 3-4 FT | 3 REB | 5 AST | 5 PTS | +13

Paging Mr. Hyde. Mr Hyde, you have a call on the courtesy phone from Dr. Jekyll.

Mike Bibby, PG
0-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | -18

His third 0 assist game. Missed all his shots. And was -18.

Steve Novak, SF
1-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 3 PTS | -10

Alton Brown hates un-itaskers, for good reason.

Jerome Jordan, C
0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | -3

Hey I played for 3 minutes!

Bill Walker, SG
2-6 FG | 2-2 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 7 PTS | -13

Had a really nice pass to Carmelo under the basket.

Amare Stoudemire, PF
FG | FT | REB | AST | PTS |

Please come back!

Renaldo Balkman, PF
FG | FT | REB | AST | PTS |

Yup I fouled Kobe on a 4 point play a few days ago. Still paying for it.

Jeremy Lin, PG
FG | FT | REB | AST | PTS |

Clock ticking on 10 day contract…

Five Things We Saw

  1. It’s
  2. not
  3. time
  4. to
  5. panic.

43 comments on “Quick Reaction: Raptors 90, Knicks 85

  1. Thomas B.

    What must you do to get an F? Bibby makes me long for the halcyon tenure of one Roger Mason Jr.

  2. hoolahoop

    How could you possibly give Melo a “B” for this game? 13-31 doesn’t begin to explain it.
    For starters, when your offense revolves around one guy most of the shots and making most of the points you have a serious problem.
    Good ball movement and player motion = Good things happen. Contrarily, when you don’t – bad things happen. Melo stops the ball movement and everyone stands around watching Melo shoot.
    When one guy always goes one-on-one, a cancer spreads throughout the team. Soon, everybody goes one-on-one.

    Fact is, the style that Melo plays, no one is in good position to score unless they go one-on-one. That’s why Amare sucks now. That’s why the whole team sucks.

    Yeah, let’s blame this game on all the scrubs that orbit around king Melo – and commend Melo for his great game.
    urrrrrrrrrrrrrghh!

  3. Thomas B.

    “It’s not time to panic.”

    If I may quote the esteemed galactic Senator Jar Jar Binks:

    “Monsters out there, leaking in here. Weesa all sinking and no power. Whena yousa thinking we are in trouble?”

  4. BigBlueAL

    Hoolahoop, honestly, did you even watch the game tonight??????

    Melo found by my count 6 WIDE OPEN 3pt shooters who bricked the shot, he setup Jorts for his 2 FT’s and twice found Chandler at the basket which setup 4 ft’s for him not to mention his 4 assists. Oh and he lead the team with 11 rebs.

    I wish you wouldve watched Kobe last night go 6 for 28 in the loss vs Denver.

  5. hoolahoop

    Please don’t compare Melo to Kobe. Okay, maybe after he gets five rings.
    I saw Kobe’s bad game – but he made some incredible shots in the fourth quarter to break open the game.
    More importantly, Kobe has a history of getting the ball to people in great position to score. Ask Pau.

    Even if Melo passes to teammates that miss shots, it’s no reason to stop passing. That’s the right play – everytime!

    BigBlueAL:
    Hoolahoop, honestly, did you even watch the game tonight??????

    Melo found by my count 6 WIDE OPEN 3pt shooters who bricked the shot, he setup Jorts for his 2 FT’s and twice found Chandler at the basket which setup 4 ft’s for him not to mention his 4 assists.Oh and he lead the team with 11 rebs.

    I wish you wouldve watched Kobe last night go 6 for 28 in the loss vs Denver.

  6. BigBlueAL

    “I saw Kobe’s bad game – but he made some incredible shots in the fourth quarter to break open the game.”

    Ummm, they LOST last night mainly due to Kobe shooting 6 for 28. So to you its OK if Kobe shoots like crap but hits some “incredible” shots late in the 4th quarter but its not when Melo does it??

    For a guy who preaches so much about playing smart basketball and all that garbage being a fan of Kobe Bryant is pretty funny.

  7. hoolahoop

    No, I don’t condone Kobe playing like that. But that’s not his history.

    BigBlueAL:

    For a guy who preaches so much about playing smart basketball and all that garbage being a fan of Kobe Bryant is pretty funny.

  8. BigBlueAL

    Thats not his history?? Have you not seen him play at all during his career?? I mean dont get me wrong, I think Kobe is a great player. But c’mon, nobody in the NBA in the past 10 years has had as many stupid shooting games than Kobe and its not even close.

    All this preaching about playing the right way and stuff to me is mostly a myth. I mean of course you have to have ball movement and pass the ball and thats something D’Antoni’s teams even in NY have always done. But all that ball movement is meaningless if you are bricking shots like what happened tonight in the 1st half.

    Its funny because Larry Brown always preached about playing basketball the “right way” yet his 3 teams that went to the NBA Finals all were mediocre offenses at best (his Pistons teams werent even ranked in the Top half in offensive efficiency). His teams played great D which is definitely something Kobe does and Melo is nowhere near good enough at (although his rebounding is very good).

    Watching great teams play offense by moving the ball is great and fun to watch but even most of that is predicated on the individual brilliance of the players who are able to break down the defenses and draw attention. Did you like that sequence early in the 2nd quarter when Bibby/TD/Walker kept dribbling and passing to each other in the perimeter which lead to a 3pt hoist with the shot clock winding down?? I mean there was movement and passing!!

  9. tmoneyny

    Why isn’t Lin getting more run? Bibby has been atrocious, and Lin is smart enough to know to pass of he’s playing with non-scrubs. His physicality would be a welcome change from Bibby’s matador+hack defense. Lin can actually dribble and penetrate a little. Plus, he showed fire last year in the preseason. I don’t see any reason why Bibby is getting run at this point.

  10. BigBlueAL

    Did you not see Lin in the final 4 mins vs Sacramento?? After that display I doubt he will ever see the court again and for good reason.

  11. nicos

    BigBlueAL: Melo found by my count 6 WIDE OPEN 3pt shooters who bricked the shot, he setup Jorts for his 2 FT’s and twice found Chandler at the basket which setup 4 ft’s for him not to mention his 4 assists. Oh and he lead the team with 11 rebs.

    Not only that but he made a bunch of passes to guys (mostly Fields & Walker) who passed up good looks. It’s tough to generate a lot of ball/player movement when one guy is left wide open all game (Jorts) another, while active, never shoots from beyond three feet (Chandler) and a third is way too hesitant (Fields). Melo shoots a ton but he hasn’t done the classic Melo “I’m going to hold the ball for 15 seconds and then take a step back 17 footer” all that often since he’s been here.

  12. ROUGH

    Lin got some garbage time in previous games. He was just terrible. As bad as Bibby is, Lin is even worse. Imagine…

    tmoneyny:
    Why isn’t Lin getting more run? Bibby has been atrocious, and Lin is smart enough to know to pass of he’s playing with non-scrubs. His physicality would be a welcome change from Bibby’s matador+hack defense. Lin can actually dribble and penetrate a little. Plus, he showed fire last year in the preseason. I don’t see any reason why Bibby is getting run at this point.

  13. Shad0wF0x

    @12

    “Watching great teams play offense by moving the ball is great and fun to watch but even most of that is predicated on the individual brilliance of the players who are able to break down the defenses and draw attention”

    Thank you. All this ball movement is pointless if people blow open layups and shots. I was watching Paul Pierce tonight make the same shots a lot of the Knicks were taking except that they actually went in. People don’t have a problem with it unless if it bricks. The same thing with Amar’e a couple of games ago. He was taking the exact same shots either way. The only difference and the only important thing anyway, was the it went in one game and it didn’t the other.

    Stop it with this rings argument determining the worth of a player. Winning rings is determined by the quality of a team, not just one player.

  14. BigBlueAL

    Im telling you, those first 4 minutes of the 2nd quarter is perfect proof of how passing and movement is a waste if all the players doing it suck.

  15. BigBlueAL

    To be fair though look at scoring and offense around the NBA right now, its pretty awful. Lockout really is affecting play right now for the most part.

  16. New Guy

    I just want to thank time Warner and MSG for forcing me to miss this game bc of their childish dispute. Please get it settled by the time baron Davis is healthy. But no rush for now.

  17. xduckshoex

    BigBlueAL:
    Im telling you, those first 4 minutes of the 2nd quarter is perfect proof of how passing and movement is a waste if all the players doing it suck.

    So because a few players missed a couple of shots the offense should be abandoned so that everyone on the team gets even worse looks?

    I don’t understand how that makes sense to you.

  18. hoolahoop

    BBA, it’s hard to take you seriously because you’ve been the ultimate Melo defender since the knicks got him. For a while, I actually thought you were Melo posting here as BBA, but then I saw you post during the game. Are you on his payroll?

    You guys that dismiss the concept of ball movement and player motion for any reason, (i.e. the rest of the team sucks) have no understanding of what it takes to be a top tier team.
    It was described beautifully here a few days ago by a poster paraphrasing Phil Jackson’s analogy to playing jazz. If one player overly dominates or is doing his own thing it throws everyone off.

    After a Cleveland playoff game Lebron was questioned/criticized for not taking the last shot in a game they lost. Lebron’s reply was that his teammate was open. He said that he’d do it again because it “was the right play”.
    It’s not fair to compare Melo’s game to Lebron, but what makes Lebron great is that he’s always looking to pass, if it’s there, and plays intensive defense. That keeps his teammates involved. Wade is the same way.
    Melo is a vacuum. The ball goes to him and doesn’t come back out. That’s why he’s a loser on this level.
    That’s why everyone on the team looks horrible including Amare, and why D’antoni will lose his job.
    Most people don’t blame the guys who score twenty five. Funny how well Denver is doing without Melo. Do you think they would undo that trade?

  19. nicos

    But it’s not just the missed shots- it’s the guys passing up open looks on kick-outs. I don’t know how many times Melo has drawn a double and kicked out to an open man only to have that guy hesitate and pass up the shot. D’A's yelling at guys to shoot the ball, Melo is telling guys to shoot the ball- the guys on the perimeter (Fields esp.) are just as responsible for bogging down the offense as Melo.

  20. BigBlueAL

    xduckshoex: So because a few players missed a couple of shots the offense should be abandoned so that everyone on the team gets even worse looks?

    I don’t understand how that makes sense to you.

    No, the point was during that stretch they didnt get any good looks at all despite all the passing and movement because none of the players could actually dribble the ball into the lane and draw defenders. Shitty players can dribble and pass all they want around the perimeter like they did and all it will lead to is a forced 3pter.

    Melo was getting players WIDE OPEN 3′s and they were still missing but at least he was able to actually draw enough attention to find open shooters. When Bibby, TD and Walker was doing their globe trotter weave thing or whatever the hell they were doing it amounted to a forced 28 foot 3pter.

    That was my point above, ball movement works when it is done by good players who can penetrate and force defenders to help. When Melo and Chandler were sitting during that stretch in the 2nd quarter they were dribbling, passing and handing the ball off like crazy and it lead to 0 points in 3 minutes until Melo re-entered the game.

    Nobody is saying Melo doesnt force bad shots because of course he does but also alot of them was done because he didnt touch the ball until the shot clock was winding down and they force fed him the ball. Hell there were a few times he was posting up in great position and TD or Fields couldnt even make a decent post-entry pass to him.

    If the Knicks make their shots in the 1st quarter like they did in Sacramento they win this game easily. They didnt struggle this game because of bad ball movement and Melo ball-hogging, they lost because they couldnt make shots period.

  21. BigBlueAL

    Hoolahoop, nobody can take you seriously when you keep repeating the same bullshit over and over. How can you possibly say Melo is a vacuum and never passes?? Are you really being serious??

  22. xduckshoex

    @24 – My bad, I thought you were defending Melo’s shot selection using the classic inadequate teammates argument that we see too often from NBA fans.

    You’re right that ball movement, in this case swinging the ball around the perimeter, doesn’t accomplish anything on it’s own. The purpose of ball movement is to get the defense leaning one way or the other so you can attack it, none of the Knicks are willing or able to do that except for Melo right now. Fields, bless his heart, tries to do it sometimes but it ends up being a horrible failure most of the time.

    That said, Melo is still not above criticism and I have a few problems with him right now:

    1) He tried a terrible pass to Chandler that got picked off and the camera caught him laughing about it while he was running back on defense. Not a big deal, just irritated the hell out of me.

    2) He is terrible at recognizing what he should shoot when. He takes contested midrange jumpshots with 12 seconds left on the shot clock, you can get that any time you want to because that is the shot the defense wants you to take. Short of turning the ball over that is the best outcome for a defense on any given play so they will gladly give you that shot again in 9 seconds. Work to get a better shot.

    3) He is doing a really good job on the those pick and rolls with Chandler but he waved the dude off multiple times while the offense was struggling, opting instead to take some of the aforementioned contested midrange jumpers after trying to beat his man one on one.

    The last two are pretty indefensible in my opinion. This is a pick and roll offense, that is how the defense gets broken down and it is how all of these shooters get their shots. Run the damn pick and roll, don’t wave off your screener so you can play the ineffective hero ball that keeps your efficiency down and keeps your teams from advancing past the first round.

  23. xduckshoex

    Watching Melo is really frustrating because he really does have all the talent in the world, he just wastes it by playing isolation basketball. When he abandons that and plays with the team he gets easy looks, but he doesn’t do that often and everyone suffers as a result. In a typical season for him 30-40% of his plays are isolations even though his efficiency on those plays is lower than his general efficiency; seems pretty obvious that if he abandoned that in favour of a more team-oriented game he would be a lot more successful.

  24. Shad0wF0x

    @26

    I completely agree with you on your 2nd and 3rd points. I don’t blame Melo when the offense fails and expects him to bail them out with 4s remaining. It’s when he just pulls up for a 20ft shot with 15s remaining on the clock is when it’s frustrating.

    Pick n’ Roll/Pop with Melo + Amar’e/Tyson should be the 1st play EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. The best offense from this team usually comes out as a result of that being the starting play. Someone usually gets open for a jumpshot or cuts for an easy layup.

  25. Brian Cronin (@Brian_Cronin)

    Manu out indefinitely with a broken hand. That’s a major blow for the Spurs.

  26. taggart4800

    I worry about anyone blaming Melo for this game. I am not a Melo supporter, rightly or wrongly he created this situation for himself. However he played 90% of tonights game with stiffs.
    I personally think the blame has to lie with D’Antoni. I realise Toronto were packing the paint, but I think you absolutely HAVE to get Melo inside drawing fouls when Amare is off the court. Get their bigs in foul trouble and take the load off of your peripheral guys. Unfortunately nobody seemed remotely capable of throwing an entry pass, as has been mentioned.
    What is Melo to do? Clone himself and put a Fields Jersey on?
    We are missing a lot of players at the moment and confidence is very low among the reserves, I for one am not panicking this early. I think they have until mid march to sort this if they sneak a few wins inbetween.
    I do however agree that at times Melo took it upon himself to try and get things going, not entirely a bad decision, but at the detriment of the offense. This led to a breakdown in communication, because the other players were hopelessly still trying to run the offense. But when you look at the negatives, you have to think D’Antoni was sat courtside…..

  27. Nick C.

    Weren’t these the same guys who blew out Sacramento? Studs one night stiffs the next. Go figure.

  28. iserp

    Not that the loss is on Melo (he carried the team), but he went 1-on-4 for long stretches in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. Even if your teammates brick your passes, you need some ball movement just to space the offenses. If you start an iso play with other 4 players you are clearly not going to pass (maybe because they’re missing all they shoot), then all the defense is going to collapse on you. We need a bit of ball movement, someone drives, passes it back, to the other side, back to Melo and then i have no problems with Melo trying to get his spinning-fadeaway-offbalance-superhero shot; at least he will have a bit more of space then. That, an douglas taking ill-advised 3 pointers without even looking his teammates (even if those 3 pointers went in) drove me mad. Man, i envy Toronto for having Jose, even if he is thoroughly criticized there. About Fields, i think he had a fine game (he failed some layups, but those were good drives by him), although i have to agree that he was the 3rd best player on the floor (after Melo and Chandler), and he needs to be more aggressive in this games when so many people is missing.

  29. KnickfaninNJ

    I didn’t see the game last night so I can’t comment on Melo. But I did see Lin play 4 minutes of garbage time before. He was bad, no question. But it looked like he was trying to do too much. As soon as he got the ball he would try to penetrate, no matter what the on court situation. If he had just picked his spots he would have done better. So I think he has a chance to contribute if he rlaxes a little and trusts his teammates.

  30. Nick C.

    There were stretches where the offense by design or otherwise seemed to have a lot of Melo with the ball on the right side and the four other guys standing around from the top of the key to the left side. Who that’s on I can’t say. It could be a called play or clear out for all I know. What it is, is painful to watch basketball. Those first five minutes were a pleasure and then it went all downhill (for a game at least).

  31. Frank

    Watching last night’s game made me actually appreciate Lebron a lot more. NYK missing Amare makes the team look a lot like Lebron’s Cavs – a bunch of stiffs playing with a thoroughbred, except that our thoroughbred is Melo – he’s very very good but he’s no Lebron. Or maybe more appropriately, Kobe before Bynum was good and they stole Gasol from Memphis.

    Seriously – look at the guys out there with Melo last night. Toney Douglas is a 7th man on a good team, and should be no more than a tertiary scorer anytime out on the floor. Instead, he’s the starting point guard and the secondary scorer with Melo on the floor, primary scorer with Melo on the bench. Fields is fine, but he’s better as the 4th or 5th scorer, picking up the garbage points. Jorts is a rook, and even though he played well the other night, I’ve never seen someone who has the green light to shoot 3′s miss SO BADLY on so many shots. He was off by FEET last night, not inches. And Chandler is great, but very limited offensively. Seriously – JORTS is our starting PF – on a good team he plays 5-10 min/night max as a Brian Cardinal type.

    Like BBA said, Melo easily could have had 35 points, 11 reb, and 8 or 9 assists last night with actual starting-quality NBA players around him.

    If you want to blame anyone – blame Bibby for last night. He played 15 minutes, bricked 3 wide open 3′s, fouled 3 guys and was a -18. I was hoping he could at least be an Eddie House for us, but it looks like he’s taken over Roger Mason’s role of guy with green light but sub 30% TS from last year’s 1st half.

    I am definitely NOT in panic mode. We are literally playing with 3 out of our top 6-7 out right now with Baron, STAT, and Shumpert not playing. Not to mention we’re missing Jefferies who would help a little on D at least. With those 4 playing, Jorts goes back to 5-10 min/game. Bibby goes back to 0-5 min/game.

  32. Frank

    Meanwhile, all kinds of tweets and videos out there showing Shumpert is close to his return. That would be a HUGE help, even just as a defender and another guy who can get into the lane.

  33. Phil Brank - Alien Extraordinaire

    I didn’t get to see the game last night, stupid MSG-Time Warner feud. But this format for after games is awesome. The entry for Renaldo Balkman was hilarious!

  34. misterma

    Remember when D’Antoni got fired in Phoenix and they went to that 7-seconds or Shaq offense? Couldn’t we do the same with Melo? Shouldn’t Toney Douglas run only pick and rolls in practice? It’s a bummer that Amare is hurt this early. When he returns, they’ll have to develop that chemistry all over again. On the flip side, it’s good to see some of the non-stars play bigger roles. I think this experience, painful as it is for us as fans to watch, could be good for TDDWTDD, Jorts and Landry “Agua” Fields.

  35. xduckshoex

    Toney Douglas is another frustrating player to watch right now because he just moves laterally on the pick and roll, he never tries to get inside the defense. That’s why the offense is so bad with Melo off the floor, the one guy with the ability to get some penetration just doesn’t do it.

  36. hoolahoop

    I just don’t see that.

    nicos:
    But it’s not just the missed shots- it’s the guys passing up open looks on kick-outs.I don’t know how many times Melo has drawn a double and kicked out to an open man only to have that guy hesitate and pass up the shot. D’A’s yelling at guys to shoot the ball, Melo is telling guys to shoot the ball- the guys on the perimeter (Fields esp.) are just as responsible for bogging down the offense as Melo.

  37. kram

    P.S. Can we lay off the pathetic alley-”oops” attempts already? I’m guessing we lead the league in threes and alley-oop attempts, with probably similar shooting percentages…

  38. hoolahoop

    For me, what you’re saying is as clear as day. But Melo doesn’t fully buy into it. He’s so confident in his scoring ability that he gravitates to his one-on-one style over and over again.

    xduckshoex:
    Watching Melo is really frustrating because he really does have all the talent in the world, he just wastes it by playing isolation basketball.When he abandons that and plays with the team he gets easy looks, but he doesn’t do that often and everyone suffers as a result.In a typical season for him 30-40% of his plays are isolations even though his efficiency on those plays is lower than his general efficiency; seems pretty obvious that if he abandoned that in favour of a more team-oriented game he would be a lot more successful.

  39. hoolahoop

    Yes, ball movement and player open things up – especially for Melo to get a better shot. As soon as the ball moves, all defensive angles on the court change Move the ball again, again the defensive angles change. You get the defense off balance and find an open player moving to the basket or for a three pointer.

    iserp:
    Not that the loss is on Melo (he carried the team), but he went 1-on-4 for long stretches in the 2nd and 3rd quarter. Even if your teammates brick your passes, you need some ball movement just to space the offenses. If you start an iso play with other 4 players you are clearly not going to pass (maybe because they’re missing all they shoot), then all the defense is going to collapse on you. We need a bit of ball movement, someone drives, passes it back, to the other side, back to Melo and then i have no problems with Melo trying to get his spinning-fadeaway-offbalance-superhero shot; at least he will have a bit more of space then. That, an douglas taking ill-advised 3 pointers without even looking his teammates (even if those 3 pointers went in) drove me mad. Man, i envy Toronto for having Jose, even if he is thoroughly criticized there. About Fields, i think he had a fine game (he failed some layups, but those were good drives by him), although i have to agree that he was the 3rd best player on the floor (after Melo and Chandler), and he needs to be more aggressive in this games when so many people is missing.

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