I was just coming back to offer another thought on Westbrook because I didn’t do him justice on that last post in comparison to Banks. My point was more how D’Antoni treated a similar skilled player than I expect Westbrook to become Banks Part Two.

I do think he has an awful lot in common with Banks but there’s a few very important differences. Westbrooks is a much smarter player on both ends of the floor and he’s a much harder worker. For those reasons I can’t see him struggling through his career like Banks did. He doesn’t have the mental deficiencies of a Marcus Banks. I see Westbrook rising to a Fisher-like level (quality starter but no star) rather than an utter disappointment (like Banks).

I thought Banks-D’Antoni is a good building block to judge how D’Antoni would treat/like a player with similar qualities …. and I don’t think Westbrook is a point guard for a Mike D’Antoni. I don’t Westbook has the creativity or the the ability to run the offense. Once he’s not doing that I think his lack of shooting hurts him from getting major minutes as a shooting guard under D’Antoni.

I didn’t see anything in Westbrook’s play to convince me he’ll have an easy time adapting to being a floor general. He didn’t look that comfortable creating for teammates or directing traffic (giving orders, calling for screens, telling guys they’re in wrong positions type of things). Mario Chalmers is in a similar situation with Kansas but I thought he showed a lot more in those areas. That’s why I imagine a lenthly development phase and a risky development for him.

Westbrook did an excellent job of getting to the rim in the open court but orchestrating the break is a different thing entirely. It’s the difference between Deron Williams and Devin Harris when they run the floor.

Actually Devin Harris is a decent comparison, better than Banks. For the record I don’t like Devin Harris, I think he’s vastly overrated. Most of Dallas’ offensive struggles in the playoffs were because of his inability to create offensively which made Dallas’ offense too predictable, iso dependant and easy to stifle. But Devin’s a good penetrator, exceptional athlete, great defender. Coming out of college Devin was a far superior scorer, better shooter, better off the dribble but other than that they were very similar. More comparable to Westbrook than Banks.

I don’t think Westbrook is worth a lottery pick. He’s a solid pick from there on down. I don’t see him being any answer for the Knicks.

On Duhon, I completely agree with you. That’s why I think he’s a good last ditch option. If the Knicks can’t get a top point he’ll serve as a solid placeholder while they use their assets (draft pick say) to improve other areas of the squad. That’s the main reason why I like him for the Knicks and the type of situation where I like him for the Knicks.

I don’t have a problem comparing Duhon to Ward or Fisher or saying he’s a decent PG (in fact, if not for D’Antoni’s hiring I’d be with you 100%). Charlie Ward didn’t run or pentrate: he defended and shot jumpers. So, I can see comparing the two, I just don’t see either running the break for D’Antoni. That is, of course, if D’Antoni and Walsh are going to try and build with that same uptempo “7 seconds or less” mentality…

I agree that the Lakers did a great job nurturing Bynum, and he must have also worked pretty hard in his own right to make the kind of improvements he has. After whatever went wrong at A&M I’m pretty suspicious of Jordan’s will to work as hard as Bynum, even if given the same nurturing environment. It’s really hard for me to say though, as Bynum didn’t play in college (and, don’t know if it would help, but I never saw him in highs school). I mean given how he’s evolved in the NBA, Bynum might have dominated the NCAA. I could see Jordan as a Dampier type who can be fairly productive, but only in the right environment. Who knows how Bynum/Dampier would have done in each other’s shoes, but I can’t see Bynum not having been a pretty good NBA C in just about any environment.

I have to admit I haven’t seen Randolph play, so I’m really not in a position to say. It’s just that Bosh was really polished player before he got to GT and was a productive NBA player from day 1. Your comparison seems to make some sense though, the whole quick first step thing. I just wonder if Randolph can be as good overall as Bosh, well he can more whether he will. Bosh seems like a leader on the Raptors as well as a very good all-around player, but like I said I don’t know much about Randolph so maybe he is too. From what I’ve heard, I do like Randolph.

I’m don’t think Westbrook is a good penetrator. Most of his drives came in the open court not in the half court. He has a huge athleticism advantage in the college game that will matched a lot better by NBA players which will limit his penetration further. I just don’t see it.

The Marcus Banks example came because of D’Antoni’s connections to him. I think Westbrook has a lot in common with Banks and you can clearly see how he’s treated Banks over the past two years. Banks was a far superior penetration and scorer out of college. He was just as weak a floor general, both similar passing ability, both lack ingenuity with the ball, both were weak shooters. Both were dominant defenders in college and Banks has been a very tough defender in the pros in previous seasons (his D lagged off this season from a lack of confidence from D’Antoni, correctly, benching him).

Anyway I’m clearly in the anti-Westbrook camp. I don’t rate him.

I really like Chris Duhon he reminds me so much of Charlie Ward. Excellent defender, one of the best defensive point guards in the league. Great energy and effort. His quickness is fine. He understands how to control the halfcourt and get the ball to his stars. Duhon is nothing special but he’s a fine fill in. His body is a lot like Derek Fishers too, very thick, so nobody beats him about because of his size. Hard nosed player.

I completely agree with you on Randolph and Jordan. They could be just about anything. Both are projects and no locks to be stars in this league.

Bynum could have been a bust just as easily as a success story. The Lakers nurtured him brilliantly and he himself was an good-to-excellent (rookie-to-summer between 2nd and 3rd year) worker. I don’t think Jordan is anywhere near a lock to be a top player but I do think he has excellent upside and better upside than every other player after the top two picks. If I were to compare Jordan unfavourably (if he didn’t pan out as a star), I’d probably go with Elden Campbell rather than James. James is an extreme case of not caring, that’s very easy to spot. I haven’t seen that with Jordan. Maybe Brendan Haywood also (I like Haywood more than most I must add) if he fails to add enough offense.

Like I said, Randolph scares me because I don’t like 6-11 thin power forwards. More fail than succeed. Chris Bosh is the best penetrating big man in the league. He’s unbelievable at drawing contact and fouls on drives from 15 feet. That’s what seperates him from a solid player to an All-Star. That’s no small skill and nothing easy to duplicate. The way Randolph plays the game reminds me of Bosh though. Randolph’s first step is the quickest in the NCAA out of big men. He’s comfortable with the ball. Has a jump shot. Very active defensively. Likes to rebound and block shots, the biggest thing with young bigs is whether they’re willing to get their hands dirty down low. Randolph has willing to do that. I’d rate Randolph higher than I did Brandon Wright last year. Still he’s a project. Bosh was too when he came in the league. If everything possible goes right (which isn’t likely but it never is with raw prospects) he might be able to follow Bosh’s footsteps but that’s a big ask.

He can’t penetrate??????? Did you watch the final four? The guy got to the basket whenever he felt like it against the most athletic team in the country on the NCAA’s biggest stage. His dribble isn’t bad. He distributed the ball well for an off-guard…

“I honestly think the team would be better served signing Chris Duhon in Free Agency. I think Chris is a superior version of Westbrook (actual floor general, better defender) and he’s already established himself in the NBA.”

I like Duhon a lot, but I’m not sure he’s quick enough for D’Antoni.

Better defender? Westbrook is considered the best perimeter defender in this draft and has 2 or 3 inches on Duhon. Duhon’s a good solid defender, but Westbrook looks like he could be all-defense if he develops his offensive game. Duhon couldn’t buy consistent minutes on a team that concentrated on defense.

“D’Antoni likes skilled players.”

Who doesn’t?

“Westbrook is a worse version of Marcus Banks.”

That’s a bold prediction, we’ll have to see in a few years.

“He reminds me so much of Andrew Bynum.”

I don’t see it that much. In my opinion, Bynum has a much bigger frame while Jordan might have more quickness/athleticism.

The big difference I see is that Bynum came into LA and worked hard from day 1, Jordan got to A&M and go himself benched. I see as much Jerome James in him as Bynum.

“I agree with the poster above on Randolph, he reminds me so much of Chris Bosh.”

Bosh was a heck of a lot more polished/productive at the same age and Bynum was a good NBA player at 19, we’ll have to see about these comparisons.

There’s no point guard that I’m wild about. I don’t think OJ Mayo is a point and except him to be off the board by 6 anyway. Bayless isn’t really a point guard either but he’s interesting and could be worth the pick.

Wings … Gallinari is the only one I see worth considering at 6. I haven’t seen him play but he sounds interesting from reading other people’s reviews.

Bigs …. Love, Jordan, Lopez, Randolph in that order.

I’m a big fan of Kevin Love. I think he’ll be an all-star caliber player or a borderline all-star. Someone similar to David West or a Memo Okur depending on how his body shapes up with the lost weight. I also believe him to be the surest thing in the draft once you get past the first two picks. Good jump shooter, some post skills, great pick and pop player, good on the elbow, very good passer, cerebral player. Good decision maker, rebounder, can handle the ball. So much to like. It’s difficult drafting a power foward with Zach and Lee already on board but I think Love is so much better than everyone else that it would be worth doing. He’d be great in D’Antoni’s system with his shooting ability.

As for the other three …. Jordan is a huge risk but his potential payoff is the biggest out of everyone in the draft after Beasley/Rose and might even be equal to Beasley in terms of potential. What makes him special isn’t just the 7 feet size but the agility, balance, ability to run and move around. The difference between say Chris Kaman and Dwight Howard. He reminds me so much of Andrew Bynum. I have no idea whether he’d pan out but with some good big man (Robert Parish) coaching Jordan would be very interesting.

Then there’s Lopez and Randolph. I’m not wild about Lopez. He can do some things but he doesn’t protect the rim well enough for a centre. Drafting him puts an awful lot of pressure on finding a power forward capable of being a top tier shot blocker. That’s why he slipped in my estimation. Also the Knicks have two post scorers already and can’t find space for them, what good will a third one do? I agree with the poster above on Randolph, he reminds me so much of Chris Bosh. Unfortunately stick thin 6-11 players scare the life out of me so I’m not willing to give him top billing.

Kevin Love/Gallinari/Bayless/other big men would be preference for the Knicks pick.

Great athelete, good defender but he has zero offensive skills that are even mediocre at an NBA level. That scares the life out of me. He can’t shoot, dribble, penetrate, run the break, run the halfcourt offense. He has some upside to him but there’s just way too little skills in the package to be worth drafting high.

I honestly think the team would be better served signing Chris Duhon in Free Agency. I think Chris is a superior version of Westbrook (actual floor general, better defender) and he’s already established himself in the NBA.

I really can’t see Westbrook being a starting guard for Mike D’Antoni. What would he do on offense? D’Antoni likes skilled players. Westbrook is a worse version of Marcus Banks.

I expect Westbrook to be a big disappointment for whoever drafts him if he goes high in the draft.

The only way it makes sense is if you are both correct that moving him will be a major plus for the team AND you feel compelled to be better “next year”.

There is absolutely no reason at all to be thinking about next year. The entire thought process (100% of it) should be geared towards 2010-2012 when we hope to have contender in place. That means the goal isn’t to get better next year. It’s to get as much value out of getting rid of Randolph as possible no matter how long it takes – and despite the chance it could cause some short term problems next year to delay the move.

I wish you could have seen me almost spit up my coffee as I read this statement. Dude, if you don’t want to be challenged, you are on the wrong board.

If Gordon is giving up 3+ to/game, is he worth 20 points/game with no other tangible attribute to his game? There are plenty of guys who can score 20 ppg in the nba who are unemployed. Hell, I’d call up Spree for the vets minimum if thats all the Knicks needed.

As for what his ass/to ratio has to do with your prior comment, you said that his talent was there for everyone to see. Well, looking at his talent, I see a lot of turnovers for a pg. This is not a good thing no matter how many points he’s putting up.

You could have argued that Gordon injured his wrist, and therefore that contributed to his high ass/to ratio. However, saying that your statements cannot be challenged . . . please.