Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, September 2, 2014

Poll: Would You Do This Deal?

So it looks like a few sources are saying there is a deal very close to being consumated. According to Kurt Helin of NBC Sports:

Multiple sources now report that the trade of Carmelo Anthony to the New York Knicks happening later tonight or tomorrow.

The Denver Post called the trade “imminent” while a source told the New York Times, “We’re about to dot the i’s and cross the t’s.” Newsday and Yahoo reporters also have similar reports.

Carmelo Anthony did not take part in Nuggets practice today.

The latest version of this has it a three-team trade that also includes Minnesota. The Knicks would get Anthony, Chauncey Billups Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman. The Nuggets would get Raymond Felton (who likely would be traded again before the deadline), Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, the Knicks 2014 first-round pick and Corey Brewer from Minnesota. Minnesota would get Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry’s expiring contract from the Knicks.

Should the Knicks trade Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, their 2014 first-round pick, Anthony Randolph and Eddy Curry for Carmelo Anthony, Chauncey Billups Shelden Williams and Renaldo Balkman?

Should the Knicks make this deal for Carmelo?

View Results

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218 comments on “Poll: Would You Do This Deal?

  1. NYK Ewing

    Mike – multiple sources now reporting that Mozgov is a part of the deal.

    Way to ruin your leverage Dolan…

    Whatever, I just spent about two paychecks worth on tickets so I can double the price when the trade is announced tomorrow.

  2. David Crockett

    Posting and Toasting is citing a tweet from Woj saying that the Knicks have included Mozgov, for whatever that’s worth.

  3. TheRant

    Here’s a question for the KN nation.

    I asked about Felton’s reasonable $7.5M/yr contract, since Billups is at $14.2M. Even if Billups is the better point (and more fun for announcers), it seems he’s not quite the same value.

    Someone replied that both are two-year deals and thus each player would be essentially a “rent-a-point” waiting for a better option (hopefully D Will or CP3, or a reasonable facsimile) to be available in 2012. No bearing on who we bring in.

    But let’s say we’re in this same, terrible situation in a year. Now we have a disgruntled CP3/DWill fed up with the crumbling franchise in NO/Utah. They say that they want to come to NYC and form another heroic trio. And the other team doesn’t want to lose them to FA, and wants something in return.

    Wouldn’t Felton be a better trade asset, since you could trade him (with pieces) for CP3/DWill, and the other trade partner still has a point guard? Billups by that time will be 36 or 37, almost certainly slowing down, and wanting to retire back to Denver. No way he would sign an extension. What am I missing?

  4. Ben R

    ThRant – You are right about Billups being alot less of a future trade asset. but we gave away too much talent to make a real push for CP3 or D-Will anyway, so I don’t really see how it matters much.

  5. Brian Cronin

    Wouldn’t Felton be a better trade asset, since you could trade him (with pieces) for CP3/DWill, and the other trade partner still has a point guard? Billups by that time will be 36 or 37, almost certainly slowing down, and wanting to retire back to Denver. No way he would sign an extension. What am I missing?

    No, that’s a fair point. The Knicks just obviously didn’t care enough.to let that factor in.

  6. Brian Cronin

    The Nuggets traded Melo to the New York Knicks tonight, a league source said. Denver gets Wilson Chandler, Raymond Felton, Danilo Gallinari, Timofey Mozgov, the Knicks 2014 first-round draft pick, the Warriors’ 2012 second-round pick, the Warriors’ 2013 second-round pick and $3 million in cash.
    Anthony will go to New York, along with Chauncey Billups, Shelden Williams, Anthony Carter and Renaldo Balkman.

  7. latke

    If this is the only option (i.e. if we have 95% certainty that ‘melo isn’t coming, either this season or during the offseason) then yes, I do the deal, mostly because of the possible payoff next year with a 3rd star.

    I would first explore all options that involve keeping Gallinari and Fields, even if it means sending Walker, Williams, Mozgov and 2 first rounders. I would even take back Al Harrington if it meant keeping Mozgov. I would probably put Fields in before putting Gallinari in.

    For example, I’d prefer this trade: http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=4ebmhbl

    Obviously Denver wouldn’t want to do a 9 for 3 trade, so we’d have to route some of the guys elsewhere for picks, but you get the idea.

  8. Brian Cronin

    Wait….did they keep anthony randolph?

    It doesn’t say, but I believe no. I think they traded him for two second rounders from Golden State.

  9. Thomas B.

    Waiter? I asked you to hold the Balkman.

    This too is Isiah Thomas’ fault. Had he not signed Curry to that deal, his expiring contract would be here for us to use to make this deal work.

    No extension for Donnie Walsh if he signs off on this. He has totally blown it again. He overpaid to move JJ he screwed up the draft in 2009, and now he is sending an average player and an above average player–both of whom are not yet 24– for a slightly above average 26 year old who makes more triple the combined salary of the two younger players. This is an awful trade if it includes Gallinari. I’d walk. Chandler, Felton, Randolph, Curry and a pick is my best and last offer. Melo is just not good enough to give up as much as proposed.

    If this goes down I’m done. I mean it this time.

    To paraphrase Prince Akeem in “Coming to America”: “From this day forth I renounce my fandom. I renounce my fandom.”

  10. Mulligan

    Wait, but Larry Coon said they can’t trade the 2014 pick because the 2012 pick is top-5 protected. The only way they can do that is if they get another 2012 pick. Did they trade AR straight up to MIN and keep the pick?

  11. Ben R

    I believe those 2nd rounders are ours from the Lee trade. But the trade does not work unless we move Curry as well and that would most likely be to Minnesota with Randolph.

  12. latke

    alanhahn Alan Hahn
    The trade, which includes Randolph and Curry going to Minnesota, means Knicks open up two roster spots. Will need to get a big.

  13. Mulligan

    Ben R: I believe those 2nd rounders are ours from the Lee trade. But the trade does not work unless we move Curry as well and that would most likely be to Minnesota with Randolph.  

    Exactly. Unless Kahn does us a solid and trades us a pick for Curry’s contract? No effing way that’s happening, right?

  14. Mulligan

    latke: alanhahn Alan Hahn
    The trade, which includes Randolph and Curry going to Minnesota, means Knicks open up two roster spots. Will need to get a big.  

    Blurg.

  15. rayhed

    @7 regarding billups

    i do agree with what you said, but one way to rationalize it is that once billup’s contract is up, he might be prone to resign with the knicks for a few years at a lower price to finish up his career, whereas felton will probably try and seek better money elsewhere… its a stretch though

    this is ridiculous… i think the knicks with billups, amare, and melo are still significantly worse than the nuggets were over the past two years… this trade makes no sense

  16. xduckshoex

    @19 I’m not sure why you think this is Walsh’s doing. This seems to go against everything else that he’s done since he took over which leads me to believe the reports that Dolan is the one making this happen.

  17. Ben R

    Quick note – According to the poll at the denver post over 48% of Nuggets fans love this deal and another 25% like it. You know it’s a bad trade when the fans of the team forced to lose a star is clebrating the trade.

    So we gave up 4 of our 5 best young players plus Felton and a future 1st. Fantastic.

  18. Ben R

    Quick note – According to the poll at the denver post over 48% of Nuggets fans love this deal and another 25% like it. You know it’s a bad trade when the fans of the team forced to lose a star is celebrating the trade.

    So we gave up 4 of our 5 best young players plus Felton and a future 1st. Fantastic.

  19. Brian Cronin

    I think Chuck Heston said it best:

    You Maniacs! You blew it up! Ah, damn you! God damn you all to hell!

  20. jon abbey

    this obviously only makes sense if the decision makers in NY (whoever they may actually be at this point) know that one of the big three will come to NY in free agency next year. otherwise, it’s pretty hard to understand.

  21. xduckshoex

    jon abbey: this obviously only makes sense if the decision makers in NY (whoever they may actually be at this point) know that one of the big three will come to NY in free agency next year. otherwise, it’s pretty hard to understand.  

    The problem is that they won’t have the money to sign them with Amare and Melo taking up 75% of the cap on their own.

  22. Caleb

    Well, I knew it was a real possibility but holy crap.

    At this point it’s hard to see Donnie sticking around past April. Maybe he figured he was leaving anyway, or maybe this was the last straw. Guess we’ll see….

    Wonder what kind of reception Melo gets at the Garden first time out?

  23. Ben R

    I want someone anyone to please draw up how we can get D-Will, CP3 or Howard in 2012 with our cap situation and lack of assets. It might be possible but I don’t see it. Can someone maybe write an article breaking it down. Because Fields plus an expiring Billups will not get us a star, and the cap situation seems impossible. I’m not trying to be negative, because alot of good posters are using that as solace and I just don’t see it. Please help, I could use some solace as well. How?

  24. Brian Cronin

    Okay, moving on.

    Barron obviously returns.

    So who’s the starting lineup? Turiaf at the 5? Or Sheldon Williams at the 5? Will Balkman ever get any minutes? Probably not, right?

    So let’s figure it as…

    Billups 32 minutes a game
    Fields 33
    Melo 36
    Amar’e 37
    Turiaf 22

    Extra E 25
    Toney 22
    Sheldon 14
    Walker 12
    Barron 7
    Balkman -120

  25. latke

    FYI Knicks still have a couple of expirings which, as they won’t have cap space this summer, they would be wise to trade to try to replace the big man shortage.

    Roger Mason: 1.4 million
    Kelenna Azubuike: 3.4 million

    Carl Landry and Yi Jianlian strike me as reasonable targets (as in an expiring plus $3 million might do the trick) with salaries we could match, and who might be able to help us inside.

  26. Brian Cronin

    What’s interesting is that let’s say a healthy Azu does show up. What do you do with him? Play him at the 2 with Fields at the 3? Effectively take away Walker’s 12 minutes, reduce Fields’ minutes to 28 then give Extra E Sheldon’s back-up 4 minutes?

  27. Caleb

    @34 depends on the cap and exactly what Melo extends for. If he starts at $20 mil (with raises, for his reported $65m extension) then he and Amare take up $40 million even, give or take $100k. Nine minimum-salary drudges makes $4.3 million… At the current cap, that would leave $14.6 milllion for the FA. LeBron et al took the equivalent of $16m starting salary (since no state income tax)… so you’re close, but not quite there… the cap either needs to go UP, or Melo needs to take less. (this assumes that FIelds and this year’s pick are given away for future picks).

    Man this sucks.

    ON top of everything else this team will rank a lot lower in style points. Might be worth it if we were winning 55 or 60 games, but not just to bump us up to 47.

  28. Tyler Murray

    I’m so impressed you guys are able to formulate words about this. I’m just full of “grrr”, “wtf” and “aaaarrrrrggggggggg” right now.

  29. chrisk06811

    it’s unclear to me that we lost AR.

    I like the trade. We are a LOT better now. If/when we gel, we could sneak up on someone. Sheldon is 27, balkman 26. Is Mosgov really that much more full of potential?

  30. BigBlueAL

    chrisk06811: it’s unclear to me that we lost AR.I like the trade.We are a LOT better now.If/when we gel, we could sneak up on someone.Sheldon is 27, balkman 26.Is Mosgov really that much more full of potential?  

    Sheldon Williams sucks.

  31. Caleb

    Billups is less durable than Felton… that’s one problem… we will be leaning more on Toney D.

    I’d guess it looks about like:
    Center: Turiaf and/or Barron 24, Stat 24
    PF: Stat 14, E-E 24, Anthony 10
    SF: Anthony 30, Fields 18
    SG: Fields 18, Walker 24, Billups 6
    PG: Billups 28, Douglas 20

    God help us if Billups gets hurt (same as with Felton).

    You have to think Donnie will get cranking between now and Thursday to try and find some extra bodies.. probably a fantasy to reel in someone like Carl Landry but hey – now’s the time – the cap room won’t be there later.

  32. Brian Cronin

    I’m so impressed you guys are able to formulate words about this. I’m just full of “grrr”, “wtf” and “aaaarrrrrggggggggg” right now.

    You can’t dwell on this stuff too much. Does it hurt? Sure, but so did the three decades Isiah was in charge (it was three decades, right? It was hard to keep track), and we all dealt with it. This is a lot easier to deal with than the Isiah days. At least Melo is legitimately a very good player, as is Billups. It is a horrible trade, but it is not Eddy Curry for two unprotected lottery picks bad. So upward and onward – we’re all still Knick fans, right? So we will just have to deal with it.

  33. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    You can’t dwell on this stuff too much. Does it hurt? Sure, but so did the three decades Isiah was in charge (it was three decades, right? It was hard to keep track), and we all dealt with it. This is a lot easier to deal with than the Isiah days. At least Melo is legitimately a very good player, as is Billups. It is a horrible trade, but it is not Eddy Curry for two unprotected lottery picks bad. So upward and onward – we’re all still Knick fans, right? So we will just have to deal with it.  

    Well said Brian.

  34. Brian Cronin

    Can someone clarify what’s going on with Curry and AR… ?

    They were traded to Minnesota. Minnesota got AR in exchange for being facilitators in the deal by eating Curry’s salary.

  35. Dan Panorama

    From A-Woj on Twitter:

    WojYahooNBA Adrian Wojnarowski
    Donnie Walsh ally says of steep price paid for Melo: “This is all Dolan. All Isiah. All (Worldwide) Wes and Leon Rose…”

    If there was truly no other option (and we don’t have all the facts, Melo never publicly put his foot down the way he needed to in order to kill all leverage), then maybe this is borderline OK. But if it’s true that Walsh had them right where he wanted and Dolan gave us up Gallo for nothing I don’t know what to say. Unless Fields blows up fast (and I really hope he’s here for the long haul) it’s tough to see assets for a Paul or Williams trade to add that final piece. Gallo would have been really helpful there, as would Felton.

    On the positive side, given where we were in May 2010, I’m still amazed we have a team built around Amare Stoudemire and Carmelo Anthony. Isane.

  36. Caleb

    AR, Love & Rubio would be a fun team to watch…

    That fleeting chance we had to keep AR makes this more soul-wrenching than it would have been. I’d been braced for the worst. Then un-braced.

    MDA has to hate Balkman’s guts but they could really use him.

  37. BigBlueAL

    Person I feel the most sorry for right now believe it or not is D’Antoni. He is going to be on the hot seat now having to coach a flawed roster for the rest of this season and with unreal expectations from the local media.

    I hope he gets to coach this team next season where they will hopefully improve the depth of the team over the summer and he will have an entire training camp with the new team. Of course if Walsh is gone who knows what that means for D’Antoni.

  38. Caleb

    @57 Yes… what makes this really, really depressing, is that Wojo was right – odds are that Donnie is out the door and Isiah is back in charge by the time the lockout is over.

  39. Kikuchiyo

    No Balkman. The talentless Anthony Carter instead.

    Carter will be here to hold Chauncey’s cane when he’s playing.

    But look on the bright side, Anthony Carter had 8 touchdowns and over 1,000 receiving yards in 1990.

    Oh, wait….

  40. Brian Cronin

    No Balkman. The talentless Anthony Carter instead.

    Both are in the deal.

    I suppose Carter could actually play a couple of minutes a game.

  41. Caleb

    It’s this generation’s Antonio McDyess trade.

    Except that if we’re lucky we’ll get a couple of seasons watching a decent team before our PF blows out his knee.

  42. latke

    The only way we get one of the big three is through free agency.

    Amare: 19.95 million
    Carmelo: 20.44 million
    10 minimum salaries: $5 million

    total: $45.4 million

    Assumed salary cap: $61 million (let’s hope that this is the cap or that contracts before the new CBA are either rolled back proportionally or count less proportionally against any lower cap).

    Maximum contract the Knicks will be able to offer: $15.6 million.

    On a 5 year deal and 10.5% raises, that’s 15.6 + 17.23 + 19.04 + 21.04 + 23.25 = $96.1

    Stoudemire’s contract was $99.7 over 5 years, so that’s a pretty marginal difference. ‘Melo and Star #3 would have to take some pretty decent cuts in order to leave room for Fields’ cap hold.

  43. Brian Cronin

    It’s this generation’s Antonio McDyess trade.

    It really is nearly as bad as that.

    The AR stuff, though…man…Minnesota got him for picking up the tab on Curry’s contract. That’s it. Not even freakin’ Brewer.

  44. Caleb

    @67 Honestly it’s even worse, because this team looked to be headed for bigger and better things… that team was already on the way down and the McDyess deal just cemented it.

    Who will have better record next year, Knicks or Nuggets? (assuming Nene stays in Denver for the year)

  45. Igno-Bot 3000

    Sooo let’s start working on that Billups/Anthony Carter/2016 1st round pick package to send to Utah for Deron…

  46. Jim Cavan

    If that Tweet by Hahn is true and allies of Donnie are already coming out to spite the trade, you can imagine what’s gonna come out of the woodwork tomorrow. I’d be surprised if he stuck around much past the deadline. He’s too old for this shit.

  47. Ben R

    Man, Denver looks pretty good. If they do the smart thing and just keep the team together I think they might have actually improved.

    Felton Lawson
    Affalo Smith
    Gallo Forbes
    Chandler Harrington
    Nene Mozgov

    That’s a good looking team right there. I’m pretty sure better than we are right now, with flexabilty and assets.

  48. John Kenney

    We gave up AR JUST TO GET MINNESOTA TO ABSORB CURRY’S CONTRACT?!?!

    So upset right now. So upset right now. So upset right now. So upset right now.

  49. Doug

    Doug: Great. Now we’ve got Candace Parker’s husband and Candace Parker’s brother on the team.  

    Disregard, my blind rage has temporarily rendered me unable to distinguish Anthony Carter from Anthony Parker.

  50. Tufumbo

    I still dont understand why AR is going to minny if minny isnt giving anything up? they just threw him in for the hell of it?

  51. Jim Cavan

    Ben R: Man, Denver looks pretty good. If they do the smart thing and just keep the team together I think they might have actually improved.Felton Lawson
    Affalo Smith
    Gallo Forbes
    Chandler Harrington
    Nene MozgovThat’s a good looking team right there. I’m pretty sure better than we are right now, with flexabilty and assets.  

    F*%$ it. I’m going to GoDaddy to buy Knuggets.com

  52. Caleb

    @73 I’d say they’re about even on the court but I would rather have Denver’s roster, with the future flexibility. I’d say – “New York is a draw!” – and it is – but Jon Abbey was right when he said this team is never winning anything while owned by Jim Dolan.

    If I was a little kid I’d cry.

  53. Ben R

    I don’t think I’ve ever been this upset about sports before. Speechless, angry. It’s still kinda unreal.

  54. latke

    Even if you think ‘melo, amare, paul = wade, bosh, james (and since Bosh is pretty mediocre, it’s not the most outlandish claim), the major problem I see with this plan is that our window will be so small. Wade (28 @ signing), Bosh (26 @ signing), LBJ (25 @ signing) are significantly younger than our trio would be when they played their first game together: Paul (27), Amare (three weeks from 30), Carmelo (28) will be if they end up uniting. That first year will be those 3 plus minimum salaries, which means we aren’t going to win then. So our core will then be 28. 31, 29 heading into the first viable championship year (2013/14 season). As Amare came out of HS and has had two microfracture surgeries, his body is probably in comparable shape to a guy a couple years older than him. Who knows if he’ll still be playing all-star ball in 2013?

    I suppose it’s not something you complain about. After all, Boston didn’t unite until their big three were all several years older, and KG came out of HS too. I guess we’ll just have to see.

  55. Kikuchiyo

    Why do I think the day will come when we look back at this very brief period, four months of 28-26 ball, as a golden age? When Amar’e misses a week and Shawne Williams starts at center….when Carmelo sits and TD is our second leading scorer….when Isiah slouches back toward the Garden, we will think about Raymond Felton as the beautiful girl we spent a summer with.

  56. Robert Silverman

    Tufumbo: I still dont understand why AR is going to minny if minny isnt giving anything up? they just threw him in for the hell of it?  

    Knicks had to move Curry to take on Carmelo/Billups salary

    And yep. Dumb trade. So dumb.

  57. Caleb

    It looks like a coup from above… how long does MDA stick around? The Laqkers job is opening up.. I’d guess he and Kobe are simpatico.

  58. KnicksFanInVA

    Shit like this honestly makes me want to angry that I have remained a fan for years. Finally things were going our way, and them BAM, we get Dolanized.

  59. Frank

    OK – I’m going to put on my optimistic hat now.

    #1 – Don’t care what anyone here says, Billups is clearly a massive upgrade over Felton – as much as I love Felton. Someone above said that Billups is less durable than Felton – whoever that was should actually look at some proof before saying that. Billups has played at least 73 games since 2000. I’d say he’s pretty durable. He’s definitely getting older but as I mentioned in a post a couple days back, he’s played 10000 minutes less than Kobe Bryant, who still seems to be doing pretty well.

    #2 – Honestly, and this is sad to say — Shelden Williams would have been our best low-post defender and rebounder even before this trade, and he is definitely so now. He certainly can’t hurt. I assume he’ll probably play 20 min/game at the 5.

    #3 – Melo – warts and all – will be put in an offense where there is no plan at all for him to stand around and iso. I can only hope that this actually improves his offense. I’d also like to think that he knows the Knicks gave up the moon for him to make a few extra million $$ so he had better BRING it 150% every night.

    Oh well – it is what it is.
    Truth is – 1 year ago we had Chris Duhon, Larry Hughes, David Lee, and Gallo at the 1/2/3/4. Now we have Chauncey Billups, Fields, Stoudemire, and Melo. It’s hard to argue that we aren’t ridiculously more stacked than I thought we would be.

    But it could have been so much better.

    Well – I am an NYK fan for life, so go NY go.

  60. Ben R

    I’ve been in denial the past couple of days and hit anger this morning, I’m now in bargaining, hoping something falls through, a physical, Billups retires, Gallo threatens to go to Europe, anything please.

  61. rama

    I don’t know if I can stay a fan. I see Donnie Walsh being trumped by a bunch of dipshits who got Melo to NY in exchange for any hope of building a championship team…and ruined any joy in rooting for this team as well. It’s way too much to give up. Dolan is an idiot and/or still being counseled by that snake Isaiah. And now Melo gets NY and his max deal, and we get years of second round exits.

    Can we all really root for second round exits for years? Year after year of futility? I don’t know. truly. This might be it for me, after a fucking decade of hoping for a change.

  62. Kikuchiyo

    Our only hope now is that Wilson “Poison Tooth” Chandler takes a bite out of Dolan.

    It’s almost a full moon tonight.

  63. KnicksFanInVA

    rama: I don’t know if I can stay a fan.I see Donnie Walsh being trumped by a bunch of dipshits who got Melo to NY in exchange for any hope of building a championship team…and ruined any joy in rooting for this team as well.It’s way too much to give up.Dolan is an idiot and/or still being counseled by that snake Isaiah.And now Melo gets NY and his max deal, and we get years of second round exits.Can we all really root for second round exits for years?Year after year of futility?I don’t know.truly.This might be it for me, after a fucking decade of hoping for a change.  

    Couldn’t have said it any better.

  64. DS

    Caleb: Fuck it all. I’m going to bed.  

    You said it, brother. The worst part of this is that ESPN rumors actually came to fruition. Now we have to listen to that horse shit for another 2 years with the flickering hope that we’ll turn Landry Fields and Toney Douglas into Chris Paul someday.

  65. latke

    Ben R: I don’t think I’ve ever been this upset about sports before. Speechless, angry. It’s still kinda unreal.  

    Ben, take it easy. It’s all rumors. We’ll never know the real story about what could have been, and there’s still a chance that this team will become a contender. It’s slim, and the window is definitely smaller, but it is still there. Even if Walsh himself comes out and resigns and makes it clear why he’s resigned, it’s entirely possible that the comp we get from the Leon Rose and WW Wes will be what net us Paul or Williams. Sure, that makes the sport seem kind of dirty and underhanded, but it’s naive to think that when millions of dollars are involved there isn’t constant power plays by people with less pure intentions.

  66. jon abbey

    rama: I don’t know if I can stay a fan.I see Donnie Walsh being trumped by a bunch of dipshits who got Melo to NY in exchange for any hope of building a championship team…and ruined any joy in rooting for this team as well.It’s way too much to give up.Dolan is an idiot and/or still being counseled by that snake Isaiah.And now Melo gets NY and his max deal, and we get years of second round exits.Can we all really root for second round exits for years?Year after year of futility?I don’t know.truly.This might be it for me, after a fucking decade of hoping for a change.  

    if the only thing you care about is a title (understandable), you should have renounced NY when LeBron picked Miami.

    Donnie Walsh knew what he signed up for, his job was to land LeBron. he had zero room for error and he botched the 2009 draft badly, LeBron went elsewhere, and Dolan lost faith in him.

  67. Ben R

    At least when Isiah was running the team into the ground it was already bad, but now we were good, going up, young, cheap, easy to root for.

    I can’t wait until the press rips NY apart for giving up too much. Just to “see Melo at all costs” SAS turn around and shred the Knicks will be fun from just a study of human behavior kinda way.

  68. New Guy

    rama:Can we all really root for second round exits for years?Year after year of futility?I don’t know.truly.This might be it for me, after a fucking decade of hoping for a change.  

    Actually, based on the history of Melo’s career, first round exits are more likely.

  69. Brian Cronin

    I can’t believe we would just give up AR. Something has to leave Minne. Right??!?!

    Hmm…I guess something, but it could honestly be something as inconsequential as a future second rounder that the Knicks only get if the T-Wolves win 60 games in 2012 (or whatever other nearly impossible-to-meet standard). Since Minnesota had the cap room to absorb Curry’s salary, that was what they had to trade – their cap space.

  70. ww007

    Well so much for leverage. I’d like the nominate the Nugget’s GM for GM of the year: basically took a bleak situation and turned it into a Golden trade.

    I just want to thank him for sparing us Amare and Fields. We are forever in your gratitude…

  71. massive

    I’m so upset. We didn’t even keep Anthony Randolph? We can’t get back Rubio from Minnesota? Ridnour? Flynn? Anybody? This is a travesty. Isiah Thomas and James Dolan had to be behind this deal 1000000%.

  72. KnicksFanInVA

    I wish our former Knicks the best of luck. They deserve better than this shit anyway. I hope Felton and Gallo lead the Nuggets into the playoffs.

  73. Sandy

    Guys, I think we all agree that we lost this trade, from both a stats and game theory perspective. That much we know. However, going forward, without me diving into the numbers, does anyone have an optimistic view for this team, without me diving into the numbers?

  74. Thomas B.

    xduckshoex: @19 I’m not sure why you think this is Walsh’s doing.This seems to go against everything else that he’s done since he took over which leads me to believe the reports that Dolan is the one making this happen.  

    I thought this sounded very much like the over pay to Houston last year.

  75. Sandy

    Guys, I think we all agree that we lost this trade, from both a stats and game theory perspective. That much we know. However, going forward, without me diving into the numbers, does anyone have an optimistic view for this team?

  76. notronwest

    Frank:
    Truth is –1 year ago we had Chris Duhon, Larry Hughes, David Lee, and Gallo at the 1/2/3/4.Now we have Chauncey Billups, Fields, Stoudemire, and Melo.It’s hard to argue that we aren’t ridiculously more stacked than I thought we would be.

    Well put and he should put in 150% – this thing is all about him.

  77. Jim Cavan

    Forgetting everyone else for a second, I’m really curious to see how Billups reacts to this. By all accounts he was content to ride off into the middling sunset with his title and gold medals while enjoying the comforts of home. Can’t imagine this is going to make him too happy. Who knows, maybe he gets rejuvenated / relishes the challenge or whatever. But if I were him I’d be pretty pissed.

  78. Jim Cavan

    Kevin McElroy: We got Corey Brewer also, if anyone cares.  

    Honestly, if you told me we were getting Kevin loves beard shavings I’d find solace in that at this point.

  79. Brian Cronin

    By the way, as much as I hate this trade, I have to admit that this deal is even worse for Denver. Not in terms of basketball talent (as they come out very well), but in the sense of “Holy crap, we’re a good team and we can’t even get a star player to take $65 million to play for us?” What does that say for Denver? What does that say for the NBA as a whole?

  80. Igno-Bot 3000

    Sandy: Guys, I think we all agree that we lost this trade, from both a stats and game theory perspective. That much we know. However, going forward, without me diving into the numbers, does anyone have an optimistic view for this team, without me diving into the numbers?  

    What I’m most looking forward to is seeing how having Melo on the team will impact Amar’e and the new lack of triple teams on him. Billups has been 44% beyond the arc this season and will also spread the floor..

  81. Doug

    From Beck:

    “As part of the deal, the Knicks will send Anthony Randolph, Eddy Curry and $3 million to Minnesota, in exchange for Corey Brewer. The Knicks have not yet decided whether to keep Brewer or flip him in another deal. They have several other trade possibilities in the works as they approach the N.B.A.’s Thursday trading deadline.”

    Are we getting Corey Brewer?

  82. Brian Cronin

    I am sick to my stomach. Two pieces too much.

    Yep. And that’s not even counting the two 2nd rounders they had to give up because they couldn’t get Minnesota to kick in a first rounder for AR.

  83. New Guy

    Um, actually…I like Corey Brewer a lot! I thought he went to Denver.

    Well there’s that.

    But mostly, I kind of want to cry. I can’t take this anymore. At some point my love of the Knicks has to give way to the nightmare of supporting a Jim Dolan owned team. I was so happy this year, and now it’s all gone. I can’t live like this.

  84. DS

    knickspodcast: Dolan is going to send Fields to Denver tomorrow too just to make sure Carmelo is coming.  

    I nominate this for post of the year.

    @110 – I appreciate the optimism. But the goal is to try to somehow catch Miami someday not just to improve upon Duhon, Hughes, Harrington, Lee, and Jeffries.

  85. rohank

    Wait to reserve judgement for 3 reasons:

    1) See what all those players’ potential develops into.

    2) See how Billups and Anthony contribute (especially billups, who most people are forgetting about).

    3) See if this helps convince Paul or Williams to join in FA (for less, maybe?) in 2012.

    THEN grade the deal.

    I don’t think it’s the doomsday scenario that most of you are predicting.

  86. Ben R

    First Beasley and now Randolph, those are the kind of smart moves a small market team needs. I think we all misjudged Kahn. It took him a little while to get his bearings but he seems pretty good. Two incredibly high ceiling players for a 2nd round pick and Corey Brewer.

  87. hoolahoop

    So, 98% of people in this forum, real Knick fans, don’t like this trade. What do the professional trade makers know that we don’t. D’antoni and Donnie are strong men able to to tell Dolan not to do it.
    Why?

  88. Jim Cavan

    Brian Cronin: By the way, as much as I hate this trade, I have to admit that this deal is even worse for Denver. Not in terms of basketball talent (as they come out very well), but in the sense of “Holy crap, we’re a good team and we can’t even get a star player to take $65 million to play for us?” What does that say for Denver? What does that say for the NBA as a whole?  

    New York, LA, Chicago and Miami are always going to be ideal destinations. Not much the Denvers and the OKCs of the world can do about that. But keep in mind that a lot of these guys have houses in these places as well, or in their home cities or whatever. Denver isn’t NYC or LA, but it’s not exactly Bismarck, North Dakota either. OKC has proven that you can draft a good team of high character guys who haven’t been corrupted by the false lures of the “big” city. Obviously guys can — and will — come to New York for the right reasons, chief among them being that, if you win here and do things right, you’re immortalized. But I don’t think this necessarily should be looked at as an indictment on “small markets”.

  89. Sandy

    PG – Billups
    SG – Fields
    SF – Melo
    PF – STAT
    Center – Turiaf

    Bench – DWTDD, Sheldon “Parker”, Corey Brewer, Shawne Williams

    Not bad. What pieces, and for how much, do we need to add to make a run for the championship next year? A shooter?

  90. Tufumbo

    i dont see how this team is ever going to stop anyone on defense. they werent before the trade but i cant imagine it gets any better now. with melo and stat now its about post-season success and i dont see much with the lack of defense this team plays

  91. rohank

    Also, for those of you who are “boo-hoo-ing” about 2nd round exits, WTF were the 90s about then? Did you hate the Knicks in the 90s too? You knew we were never getting past Jordan…

  92. Thomas B.

    Doug: Great. Now we’ve got Candace Parker’s husband and Candace Parker’s brother on the team.  

    I’d rather have Candance Parker on the bench over those two

  93. DS

    New Guy: Um, actually…I like Corey Brewer a lot!I thought he went to Denver.Well there’s that.But mostly, I kind of want to cry.I can’t take this anymore.At some point my love of the Knicks has to give way to the nightmare of supporting a Jim Dolan owned team.I was so happy this year, and now it’s all gone.I can’t live like this.  

    Well, I hate to take away your one smidgen of happiness but Brewer has a .414 eFG%. (cringe)

  94. New Guy

    Those two extra 2nd round picks frighten me. As Jim Ross would say: “wait a minute…that’s Isiah’s music!”

  95. Brian Cronin

    D’antoni and Donnie are strong men able to to tell Dolan not to do it.

    Clearly they did tell him and he overruled them.

  96. Brian Cronin

    First Beasley and now Randolph, those are the kind of smart moves a small market team needs. I think we all misjudged Kahn. It took him a little while to get his bearings but he seems pretty good. Two incredibly high ceiling players for a 2nd round pick and Corey Brewer.

    I know, right? They didn’t even have to give up the first rounders they have from Utah and Memphis! How insane is that?!

  97. KnicksFanInVA

    rohank: Also, for those of you who are “boo-hoo-ing” about 2nd round exits, WTF were the 90s about then? Did you hate the Knicks in the 90s too? You knew we were never getting past Jordan…  

    I’d rather lose with some guys than win with others. But we all have our ways of looking at things. Not passing judgment. I enjoyed the 90s years because they gave it their all and fought. Who cares if we lost to perhaps the greatest player? Shit, all the teams in his era lost.

  98. New Guy

    rohank: Wait to reserve judgement for 3 reasons:1) See what all those players’ potential develops into.2) See how Billups and Anthony contribute (especially billups, who most people are forgetting about).3) See if this helps convince Paul or Williams to join in FA (for less, maybe?) in 2012.THEN grade the deal.I don’t think it’s the doomsday scenario that most of you are predicting.  

    Again, I hear Isiah’s music.

    Guys, his fingerprints are everywhere.

  99. Brian Cronin

    Also, for those of you who are “boo-hoo-ing” about 2nd round exits, WTF were the 90s about then? Did you hate the Knicks in the 90s too? You knew we were never getting past Jordan…

    The Knicks made it past the second round four times in the 90s (three if you count the 1999-2000 season as the 2000s).

  100. rohank

    KnicksFanInVA:
    I’d rather lose with some guys than win with others. But we all have our ways of looking at things. Not passing judgment. I enjoyed the 90s years because they gave it their all and fought. Who cares if we lost to perhaps the greatest player? Shit, all the teams in his era lost.  

    EXACTLY! Only one team can win it all every year. We root for the Knicks because we love our team and we love our city. Not b/c of advanced stats (and I def. agree that we gave up too much – i’m just trying to be optimistic).

  101. Brian Cronin

    More trades to come? Hopefully Walsh is in control and I don’t have to lose sleep over this.

    I feel as though I can safely say that there is no way for any future trade to be any worse than this, so I’m not too concerned.

  102. Z-man

    It’s not doomsday, just a very bitter pill to swallow. I loved Gallo and liked Mozgov. I also think we just plain gave up too much.

    Don’t know what to make of Brewer, who cares, really? We now have no center, an aging PG, no real trade assets, no chemistry, no draft picks… wow.

  103. Ben R

    rohank: Also, for those of you who are “boo-hoo-ing” about 2nd round exits, WTF were the 90s about then? Did you hate the Knicks in the 90s too? You knew we were never getting past Jordan…  (Quote)

    I don’t think there is anything wrong with second round exits but honestly after Billups retires I would be surprised if this team can manage even that. Plus the team before the trade looked poised for 2nd round exits as well but with young players that were fun to root for and the outside possibilty of getting better. So while the recond and inevitable playoff loses are the same at least with the team before the trade there was hope, a shot at improvement. Now only downhill. Betwen Billups age, Amare’s knees and no real cap room the only direction this team can go is down.

  104. jaylamerique

    Brian Cronin:
    I know, right? They didn’t even have to give up the first rounders they have from Utah and Memphis! How insane is that?!  

    well since AR plays the same position as Love and Milicia, i dont see how he gets minutes on that team. If he couldn’t get SSOL how the hell is he going to understand the triangle offense. So, slow down the hype

  105. Brian Cronin

    Amazingly, he’s gotten worse.

    But, like Melo, he was the Most Outstanding Player in the NCAA Tournament and won an NCAA championship! He must be good!

  106. Frank

    @125 – here’s some more optimism, even though it makes me feel dirty. I think we can all agree this was orchestrated by Leon Rose and World Wide Wes. It seems entirely plausible that the plan really is to bring Chris Paul here.

    Meanwhile how many expirings do we have now? Brewer is 3.7M, Mason 1.4, Azu 3.3 – since we have no plan to go after any FAs this summer, we might be able to land a big that expires after 11-12 and save someone some money. NOt sure who those candidates might be.

  107. Jim Cavan

    massive: More trades to come? Hopefully Walsh is in control and I don’t have to lose sleep over this.  

    If I were Walsh I’d be tempted to make my parting move a 4am flip of Fields and Brewer for Jordan Hill.

  108. Brian Cronin

    well since AR plays the same position as Love and Milicia, i dont see how he gets minutes on that team. If he couldn’t get SSOL how the hell is he going to understand the triangle offense. So, slow down the hype

    They got him for Corey Brewer and picking up Eddy Curry’s salary for a few months. It’s an obvious coup for them.

  109. Brian Cronin

    the only hope for a title at this point is:
    not making playoffs this and next year
    and get two high picks

    The Rockets have the Knicks’ pick in 2012.

  110. tastycakes

    I am surprised that KB has not exploded.

    Some important notes before I go read the 300 posts I missed:

    - We got one of the best male cheerleaders in the game (Balkman).
    - According to Jeff Van Gundy, all we need to do is figure out how to defend and rebound and we’ll be contending.
    - 2 superstars is obviously better than 1! Duh.

  111. jaylamerique

    Brian Cronin:
    They got him for Corey Brewer and picking up Eddy Curry’s salary for a few months. It’s an obvious coup for them.  

    well with this trade, you guys can get two of your main wishes: Gallo as a number 1 option and AR getting on the floor. We will see how it plays out.

  112. BigBlueAL

    We can complain all we want but I bet your ass Boston/Miami/Chicago are all gonna try their asses off to get in the Top 2 in the East and avoid the Knicks in the 1st round assuming they hold on to the 6th seed.

  113. jaylamerique

    Ben R:
    I don’t think there is anything wrong with second round exits but honestly after Billups retires I would be surprised if this team can manage even that. Plus the team before the trade looked poised for 2nd round exits as well but with young players that were fun to root for and the outside possibilty of getting better. So while the recond and inevitable playoff loses are the same at least with the team before the trade there was hope, a shot at improvement. Now only downhill. Betwen Billups age, Amare’s knees and no real cap room the only direction this team can go is down.  

    really you thought we could beat chicago with the team we had before the trade. I mean c’mon, we were barley holding on to the 6th seed.

  114. Brian Cronin

    well with this trade, you guys can get two of your main wishes: Gallo as a number 1 option and AR getting on the floor. We will see how it plays out.

    The former was never my wish and the latter is not my wish when it’s not on the Knicks. Heck, I would qualify both scenarios (Gallo as #1 in Denver and AR finally getting to play for a team smart enough to play him) as fairly nightmarish, really.

  115. Brian Cronin

    So when do we even have a draft pick? 2015? 2016?

    They have whichever is worse – their pick or Houston’s pick this year. Then they have their first rounder in 2013. And 2015-on.

  116. Ben R

    BigBlueAL: We can complain all we want but I bet your ass Boston/Miami/Chicago are all gonna try their asses off to get in the Top 2 in the East and avoid the Knicks in the 1st round assuming they hold on to the 6th seed.  (Quote)

    I think there is a chance that this year we will be a better team, this trade possibly lifted us up to the Atlanta’s and Chicago’s of the world but unlike the team we just had we are at our ceiling. The only improving player that is any good is Fields. Unfortuately Billups, the biggest reason for the immediate improvement is really old is at best a one and a half year answer. So any gains by Fields will be offset by a declining Billups.

  117. Frank

    BigBlueAL: We can complain all we want but I bet your ass Boston/Miami/Chicago are all gonna try their asses off to get in the Top 2 in the East and avoid the Knicks in the 1st round assuming they hold on to the 6th seed.  

    I sort of agree. This trade is not good for the long term and definitely sucked in terms of a value proposition given that we should have been dealing from a position of strength — but we clearly upgraded at the PG position and the SF position, and lost a center that was an afterthought for most of the season (including the portion during which we were playing really well!) From a teambuilding perspective I hate the trade, but I agree that we become a very dangerous team in the playoffs. Our 3 main guys are all playoff tested and their games fit reasonably well together.

    Lots of pressure on MDA to make these guys gel quickly.

  118. Brian Cronin

    The Knicks have their own 1st round pick this year which will be a pretty big pick now.

    Yeah, there really is a lot riding on that pick. You figure it’ll be roughly, what, #20?

  119. Frank

    ALso – Larry Coon is saying on Twitter that he can’t figure out how we can possibly give our 2014 pick. Wouldn’t it be great if the trade was disallowed due to that technicality!??!?

  120. Mike R

    Hey guys, been reading the threads for a while and decided now is as a good a time as ever to join in. First of all, I can’t believe how many people outside of this blog love this trade and the philosophy of getting Carmelo at all costs. Im with the majority of you knickerbloggers – I like Melo but this is wayyy to much. Maybe Im just extremely high on Gallo and his potential (I think he is going to be an all star one day). Also, what happened to the take it or leave it ultimatum we just heard about last night??? You know the one where Mozgov was not going to be thrown into this deal. I could have lived with this trade if it did not include either Mozgov or Gallo. (If it didnt include Gallo I would have went as far as liking the trade). Unfortunately though this looks to be a done deal and at the end of the day Melo is a Knick which if it leads to a third star in 2012 will be 100 percent worth it. My issue is we just gave up wayy to much young talent to get a great scorer that does not play much defense to bring to our team that at most times is great scoring team but does not play much defense. I see him being successful for us as an efficient scorer and will fit in well along with Chauncy (for the time being) and Amare within Dantoni’s system. Its just weird that the team is so much different then the one that entered the All-Star break. I dont think Ive ever seen a team be reshaped this much within the middle of a season. I can’t see this as Donnie’s doing – this has Dolan and the plague that is Isiah written all over it. If I were Donnie and this were the case I would walk and he would have every right to. Also, the Knicks have to get a real back up pg now, like right now… I guess we should be looking at the positives at this point – At least we kept Fields.

    PS -I guess the Conan show isn’t live? And its kind of ironic that Melo was on Conan followed immediately by Amare on Lopez Tonight. Both those shows suck but now I am obligated to…

  121. Brian Cronin

    ALso – Larry Coon is saying on Twitter that he can’t figure out how we can possibly give our 2014 pick. Wouldn’t it be great if the trade was disallowed due to that technicality!??!?

    It’d be nice if the Knicks somehow got a 2012 first rounder from Minnesota.

  122. Ben R

    jaylamerique: really you thought we could beat chicago with the team we had before the trade. I mean c’mon, we were barley holding on to the 6th seed.

    Maybe not this year but our team was built for the next 5+ years, with lots of youth and cap space. Now all of a sudden we are in win now mode. We are the Atlanta Hawks. A good team, but absolutely stuck outside of the elite with no room to get better and the clock ticking on our 3rd best player.

  123. itztiz

    Kevin McElroy: We got Corey Brewer also, if anyone cares.  

    I care, I like the kid. He will do good things for us defensively.

    Billups, Fields, Melo, Stoudemire, Turiaf

    Is MDA prepared for the massive change of pace of this team. This team would probably be best in a half court style.

  124. Thomas B.

    At least we aren’t bringing in Al Harrington.

    I am very concerned about this team on defense now. It wasnt great before but at least Felton and Chand;er showed energy and played passing lanes well. What do you think Derrick Rose is going to do with Billups? I shudder to think of it.

    Sad part is that had Felton and Chandler not had those huge drop offs in play starting in late December, they might have been enough to keep Gallinari out of the deal. Gallinari and the picks are what I regret giving up. I cant say I will miss the recent patch they installed on to WilsonSoft.

    Also concerned about 3 point shooting. Anthony aint that great there. Billups is okay, and Chandler is addition by subtraction in that area. Anyone see MDA playing Stoudemire, Anthony, Extra-E, Fields, Billups as a regular unit to keep a decent 3 point shooter on the floor?

    Final question. So who shoots the technicals for us now? Did Dolan think of that at all?

  125. Kevin McElroy

    OK guys, it’s over. Here is our lineup

    PG – Billups
    SG – Fields
    SF – Anthony
    PF – Stoudemire
    C – Turiaf

    Not bad at all. But the bench is where it gets ugly:

    Backup guards: Douglas, Brewer, Billy Walks, Rautins, A Carter
    Backup forwards: Sh(awne/elden) Williams
    Backup center: Earl Barron?

    Just about the least frontcourt depth I’ve ever seen. Also what are they gonna do with the backs of Shawne and Shelden’s jerseys? Is Shelden’s going to say “She Williams?”

  126. jaylamerique

    Ben R:
    Maybe not this year but our team was built for the next 5+ years, with lots of youth and cap space. Now all of a sudden we are in win now mode. We are the Atlanta Hawks. A good team, but absolutely stuck outside of the elite with no room to get better and the clock ticking on our 3rd best player.  

    you do realize that we will have cap space in 2012 right. so, technically we aren’t caped out. And also we have no idea what the cba will look like.

  127. Kevin McElroy

    jaylamerique:
    really you thought we could beat chicago with the team we had before the trade. I mean c’mon, we were barley holding on to the 6th seed.  

    Please do not cite our marginal (and not even certain) improvement this season as the reason to make a trade with such far-reaching implications. We’re still far from a contender. Argue for or against the trade but we have to do it in terms of how it looks in 2+ years.

  128. Frank

    Sandy: also, a great piece favorably comparing billups to felton from p&thttp://www.postingandtoasting.com/2011/2/21/2005640/chauncey-billups-appreciation-discussion-posttrying desperately to go to my happy place…  

    Billups is so vastly superior to Felton it’s not even funny. And their contracts were for the same length. This part of the deal is a major win. Whatever on-ball defense advantage Felton has is more than made up by the fact that Billups doesn’t get posted up because he’s so big. A Billups/TD backcourt would be pretty good defensively.

    And my lord the dude can shoot the rock.

  129. jaylamerique

    Thomas B.: At least we aren’t bringing in Al Harrington.
    I am very concerned about this team on defense now. It wasnt great before but at least Felton and Chand;er showed energy and played passing lanes well.What do you think Derrick Rose is going to do with Billups?I shudder to think of it.Sad part is that had Felton and Chandler not had those huge drop offs in play starting in late December, they might have been enough to keep Gallinari out of the deal.Gallinari and the picks arewhat I regret giving up. I cant say I will miss the recent patch they installed on to WilsonSoft.
    Also concerned about 3 point shooting. Anthony aint that great there.Billups is okay, and Chandler is addition by subtraction in that area.Anyone see MDA playing Stoudemire, Anthony, Extra-E, Fields, Billups as a regular unit to keep a decent 3 point shooter on the floor?Final question. So who shoots the technicals for us now? Did Dolan think of that at all?  

    We’ll billups is better then okay as a 3 pointer shooter and i’ve seen numerous games were Felton got abused by another point guard. A good defensive big man is so much important to a team defensively than a good defensive point guard. + when you consider that Melo and Gallo were shooting basically the same 3 point percentage that really isn;t a huge loss

  130. Frank

    now twitter is saying that the 2014 pick may actually be Minny’s pick as part of the AR trade. that would be much more palatable.

  131. Ben R

    Maybe a trade for Okafor? The Hornets like saving money and maybe Brewer+Turiaf+Mason+3mil would get it done. Or maybe a trade for Haywood? He’s old and has a really long contract but we need a center. Or maybe we can get Pheonix to give us Lopez if we took Childress’ contract. Childress isn’t playing and Lopez has lost most of his minutes to Gortat.

    I hate this. I love the Knicks, but I hate being a Knicks fan. We are cursed.

  132. art vandelay

    So if this deal isn’t approved by wednesday night we basically can chalk up that milwaukee game as an L I assume…we will be playing with what, 5 players total?

  133. jaredrutledge

    something tells me that by the end of the season most of the negativity concerning this trade will go away. let’s face it, chandler was going to walk and felton was a rental, regardless of how much we liked them. the probability of mozgov really developing is pretty low, and we’ve all been frustrated by gallo disappearing for long stretches. it’ll be interesting to see how they fare on other teams – i think we’ll be pretty happy with the deal once those eventualities play out.

  134. John Kenney

    Just posted a poll about the actual deal.

    Also, getting this trade to happen in my 2k11 franchise was nearly impossible. Had to do 3 or 4 trades.

  135. Brian Cronin

    now twitter is saying that the 2014 pick may actually be Minny’s pick as part of the AR trade. that would be much more palatable.

    That would make a whole lot more sense than Minnesota getting AR just for Corey Brewer.

  136. Kevin McElroy

    My girlfriend was just making a root beer float but I was afraid she might drink it and it looked SO GOOD so i gave her an apple pie, a 2-liter bottle of coke, 3 coupons for free gallons of ice cream, and $3 million dollars for it. You guys like that trade for me?

  137. nicos

    Corey Brewer is basically AR minus the shotblocking & rebounding- good defender, awful on the offensive end- no way he’s cracking the rotation so you have to think they’ll look to move him though I can’t imagine he’ll bring much though he was a lottery pick and GMs do tend to remember that.

    As for Melo- If he can play the two man game with Amar’e with decent efficiency I can live with the trade. Neither Gallo nor Chandler were able to and Melo, being a better ball handler, passer, and mid-range shooter than either of them at least has a chance to be effective though as Latke noted in a previous thread, they’ll have to run the P & R closer to the hoop than D’A likes as Melo’s not much of a threat from 3. And maybe with Melo here, Amar’e won’t be quite as concerned with foul trouble and give a consistent effort for 4 quarters. Unfortunately, I think both are pretty unlikely.

  138. jon abbey

    Thomas B, Billups is shooting 44% from 3 point range this year and 92% from the line, pretty sure he is an asset in both 3 point shooting and can handle the Ts.

  139. rohank

    Kevin McElroy: The fact that you’re watching Lopez tonight: weirdest.  

    Interestingly enough, I love Conan, and I inadvertently watched part of lopez recently and HATED it. He’s stupid. I’m only watching tonight b/c I heard Amare is on.

  140. jon abbey

    Billups is second in the league in FT percentage right now, behind only Steph Curry and just ahead of Nash. Gallo/Felton are 6th/17th.

  141. jaylamerique

    John Kenney: Just posted a poll about the actual deal.Also, getting this trade to happen in my 2k11 franchise was nearly impossible. Had to do 3 or 4 trades.  

    you gotta online update the rosters man. so much easier

  142. Brian Cronin

    This really is NOT an ideal team for D’Antoni. Wenesday should be interesting.

    Yeah, it really will be an interesting situation. I love the idea, by the way, of Jerome Jordan playing a role on the Knicks in 2011-12. That’d be hilarious.

  143. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, Billups’ free throw shooting is amazing. That was always a big part of why the Pistons were so tough to beat in close games. Billups and Rip would always get the ball and then they’d nail their free throws.

  144. John Kenney

    @jaylamerique In the middle of my franchise season it would update the deal? I thought online rosters only made the current teams change– my b haha

  145. jaredrutledge

    it’s really interesting to me how modern NBA fans completely leave out the effort factor. i mean, i know a lot of players nowadays seem entitled and lazy. and i know there was a talent dearth in the late 90′s, but we made the finals in 99 with ward, houston, spree, LJ, kurt thomas and camby.

    if KB had been around then we probably would have been complaining about what the advanced metrics said about those guys. ewing had the highest PER on the team at 19.4 and he missed most of the playoffs! i understand it was a JVG team and defense wins playoff games, but i think a motivated melo makes a big difference to this team. we mortgaged our future a bit, yeah. and i hate the mere thought of isiah’s slimy hands working this deal. but i think with the proper motivation (and some inspired post defense from turiaf and earl the pearl barron) we might be better.

  146. Robert Silverman

    Kevin McElroy: Also what are they gonna do with the backs of Shawne and Shelden’s jerseys?Is Shelden’s going to say “She Williams?”  

    Comment of the night. I laughed, finally. Since he is Mr. Candace Parker, “She Williams” would be perfect

  147. d-mar

    I hate the fact that we gave up so many players in this deal, but guys, come on, this isn’t doomsday.

    Felton vs. Billups – a wash, both are gone in 2012
    Gallo vs. Melo- no comparison
    Chandler was probably gone anyway
    Mozgov – had 1 good game, has potential, may be a good backup center someday
    Randolph- this site has been crucifying the guy all year, why do we want him so bad all of a sudden?

    Plus we get Brewer, Williams and Balkman, for whatever that’s worth

    I do feel like we got hosed, and if it was Dolan’s doing with Isaiah the weasel whispering in his ear, then it’s doubly hard to take. But we got one of the most talented scorers in the NBA to take some of the load off of Amare, and NY is now one of the pre-eminent destinations for free agents for years to come.

    Let the abuse begin.

  148. Brian Cronin

    if KB had been around then we probably would have been complaining about what the advanced metrics said about those guys.

    The advanced metrics would have helped them a lot, as the advanced metrics showed what they ultimately learned anyways, that they should play Marcus Camby more. In addition, advanced metrics would have told them to shoot more threes, which they eventually ended up doing in the playoffs. So the two things advanced metrics would have told them were exactly what they ended up doing in the playoffs that led to them making the NBA Finals.

  149. rohank

    d-mar: I hate the fact that we gave up so many players in this deal, but guys, come on, this isn’t doomsday.Felton vs. Billups – a wash, both are gone in 2012
    Gallo vs. Melo- no comparison
    Chandler was probably gone anyway
    Mozgov – had 1 good game, has potential, may be a good backup center someday
    Randolph- this site has been crucifying the guy all year, why do we want him so bad all of a sudden?Plus we get Brewer, Williams and Balkman, for whatever that’s worthI do feel like we got hosed, and if it was Dolan’s doing with Isaiah the weasel whispering in his ear, then it’s doubly hard to take. But we got one of the most talented scorers in the NBA to take some of the load off of Amare, and NY is now one of the pre-eminent destinations for free agents for years to come.Let the abuse begin.  

    THANK YOU

  150. Mike R

    I feel like Dolan and Isiah should either have a reality show or even better a cartoon made after them. It can be called Jimmy Goes to Los Angeles and Causes Mayhem with Isiah on Speed Dial…. Just kidding, well kind of.. I cant help but feel that if Dolan had never gotten involved and just trusted Donnie to do his job, we would have given up a lot less. MAYBE wouldn’t have had to give up Gallo or at the least Mozgov to preserve some size. What happened to Chris freakin Broussard and his damn proposed trade rumor of Wilson Chandler, Corey Brewer, and 1st round pick to Denver, Fat Boy and Randolph to Minnesota, and of course Carmelo in NY. LOL Wasn’t that just like a week ago?? I never believed it would be that easy but at the same time did not think it would end up with NY giving up this much.

    One last thing – I really don’t understand why Denver really did not want Randolph at all. I mean doesn’t he have more potential then a mid to late -first rounder or for sure a second rounder. I mean no matter how off he has been this year he is what most would consider a young talent which is exactly what Denver was looking for. Its hard to get over how much his trade value went down even if he did or did not play himself into that position.

  151. art vandelay

    So what is the deal with this first round pick? Are we receiving one from minnesota, or are they simply conveying their pick and sending it to denver in exchange for AR and curry (rather than our having to send the 2014 pick to denver)???/

  152. Brian Cronin

    So what is the deal with this first round pick? Are we receiving one from minnesota, or are they simply conveying their pick and sending it to denver in exchange for AR and curry (rather than our having to send the 2014 pick to denver)???/

    Good question. I think it is the latter, which would make more sense for Denver (Minnesota’s first rounder being better than the Knicks, god willing), but the former would be pretty awesome.

  153. Robert Silverman

    At this point, you might as well go all-in. Offer Azubuike, Turiaf and Fields For Marcus Camby and Rudy Fernandez

  154. cgreene

    Ben R:
    Maybe not this year but our team was built for the next 5+ years, with lots of youth and cap space. Now all of a sudden we are in win now mode. We are the Atlanta Hawks. A good team, but absolutely stuck outside of the elite with no room to get better and the clock ticking on our 3rd best player.  

    Billups > Bibby
    Johnson > Fields
    Melo > Williams
    Amare > Smith
    Horford > Ronny
    …and that’s just today. Knicks actually have decent flexibility if the cap stays soft. If the cap becomes hard then Miami and everyone else is screwed too. They will probably have to shed Bosh. The 3 star system becomes the 2 star system.

  155. cgreene

    Robert Silverman: At this point, you might as well go all-in. Offer Azubuike, Turiaf and Fields For Marcus Camby and Rudy Fernandez  

    Should have offered that for Nene and Lawson I thought…

  156. Thomas B.

    jon abbey: Thomas B, Billups is shooting 44% from 3 point range this year and 92% from the line, pretty sure he is an asset in both 3 point shooting and can handle the Ts.  

    39.1 for his career from 3 is very good. 34 and playing 32 minutes a game–6.5 fewer than Felton–I have to wonder about whether he will continue to be as productive if he has to log more minutes. I think he might have to with no back up point to spell him.

    The technicals was the standard poor attempt at humor.

  157. Robert Silverman

    If the trade had been Melo/Nene/Billups/Lawson/Afflalo for Gallo/Chandler/Curry/AR/Moz/Fields/Turiaf/Azu, I’d be a hella lot happier right now

  158. danvt

    I think all the haters here have lost their way. We get Melo and Billups, which is an upgrade over Gallo and Felton. We give up Chandler, who was kind of the same as Gallo minus the range on the shot. This had to happen because that second sentence doesn’t happen without us giving up something more. We still have some low first round picks, which, are all about how you use them. We still have some cap space, though we’ll have to make a deal to afford another max contract.

    Hey, Jeff Van Gundy likes the deal. He says that Carmelo is that much of a difference maker. That helps me with optimism going forward. A lot of people do and their not all Jack-offs from ESPN.

    I have rooted for our young players for years now. Lee, Robinson, Frye became Chandler, Gallo, Fields and all went to Milwaukee and lost to the likes of Ersan Illyosova. All got schooled by the likes of Jrue Holliday.

    I want to have some fun now. I want to win some games and be the better team most nights. I want to be in a game six in the second round and have the opportunity to beat someone good. I’m tired of knowing, by the middle of the second quarter, that we’re hopelessly overmatched.

    It’s hard emotionally to see guys go. I had my own nickname for Felton. He was “Little Ray” to me. I really loved Gallo and that’s what hurts the most. However, what’s killing me now it that the writers I respect most in the world are equating this deal with the worst moves of the Isiah era. It’s not that bad. Carmelo is not Curry, Zach Randolph, Jamal Crawford, Stephon Marbury or Steve Francis.

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