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Monday, October 20, 2014

Playoff Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers Game 6

Here we go!

Win and the Knicks will get to play an epic Game 7 on Monday night, lose and, well, you know.

Pacers starting point guard George Hill has been cleared to play. It will be fascinating to see how he deals with contact, or whether the Knicks will shy away from hitting him hard, fearing that the refs will call any contact with Hill tight.

Just like Game 5, the key for the Knicks is to take an early lead. The Pacers are not good at coming back. The team leading the game entering the fourth has won every game this series, so an early lead is very important (especially in terms of taking the crowd out of the game).

Let’s go Knicks!

522 comments on “Playoff Game Thread: Knicks @ Pacers Game 6

  1. Spree8nyk8

    Shump Shump
    Melo Melo
    Cope Cope

    @ jon abbey (copy pasted from old thread that won’t get read now)

    oh and just for humor in response to you saying “you know what we say doesn’t matter right”…..If I’m doing something while the Knicks are playing well and stop doing it and they start playing poorly, i’ll resume doing whatever I was doing. And if someone isn’t watching with me while they are playing well and they sit down and start watching and the game starts turning I’ll ask them to leave the room. I’ve asked my mom, my wife (ex), friends, sister and lots of others to do it. Sure it’s weird, but I am superstitious. Can’t help it.

  2. cgreene

    This whole scheduling thing is real weird in terms of the networks. I can’t imagine that the Saturday and Monday night thing is good for NBA. Anyone know if the ratings are down? Tirico and Barry??

  3. BigBlueAL

    No clue why TNT isnt showing this game. They have Game 7 and the East Finals. ESPN because of the West Finals Game 1 tomorrow is showing no respect for this game at all. Jon Barry doing the game and no NBA Countdown studio hosts at all. Treating it like some meaningless regular season game.

  4. BigBlueAL

    Defense looking awful to start. Back to mindless double teaming and helping. Leads to a layup and 2 wide open 3pters. Now they cant get a defensive rebound. Another WIDE OPEN 3pter.

  5. Frank O.

    Bad sign. Melo needed to go to the board with his left, away from Hibbert, but went to his right allowing or block. His shoulder.

  6. david

    The reffing is out of control this game. I have no idea how that shumpert drive wasn’t a foul

  7. Spree8nyk8

    Dude west just dribbled to the ft line picked up his dribble turned around and then dribbled again and that’s ok?

  8. Frank O.

    Stupid TOs, lagging in transition.
    By the way, every announcer is favoring the Pacers. There are a lot of pacer fans out there

  9. BigBlueAL

    Cant believe Knicks have come out so unenergized on the defensive end. Pacers looking 100X quicker than the Knicks.

    Actually like the way the Knicks are playing offensively though.

  10. AnonymousODG

    Christ, Chandler. Me sitting on my couch has a better chance of getting a rebound in this game.

  11. llcoolbp

    Melo needs to step up. He’s missing badly on open looks. Knicks look way overmatched right now. Tyson needs to sit. He doesn’t look right.

  12. Frank O.

    But honestly, I don’t think the refs have been bad. Pretty standard. They are not going to be ticky tac in an elimination game.

  13. Spree8nyk8

    This was always going to be a weather the storm first quarter, but yeah we really need to pick our intensity up. And the refs need to start watching the game.

  14. Frank O.

    AnonymousODG:
    Christ, Chandler.Me sitting on my couch has a better chance of getting a rebound in this game.

    He’s having to cover for the guards. There West had prigs on his hip and backing down. Tyson had to move over to challenge West leaving Hibbert.
    Unless we defend elsewhere Tyson is going to be out of position

  15. david

    There were three absolute howler calls — The push on Prigs (he embellished, but it was a foul), the double dribble, a moving West screen, and the Shumpert drive which led to a transition basket.

    We just need to hold the fort against this early run and stay in the game by the end of the first quarter. I hate losing Shump to early fouls because it means he’ll be less aggressive when he comes back, in addition to losing him for the first quarter…

  16. AnonymousODG

    Frank O.: He’s having to cover for the guards. There West had prigs on his hip and backing down. Tyson had to move over to challenge West leaving Hibbert.
    Unless we defend elsewhere Tyson is going to be out of position

    No that’s bullsh1t. I’m watching this game and I see Chandler right next to Hibbert. Stop making excuses.

  17. Brian Cronin Post author

    Wide open threes, Prigs. Just wide open threes. Don’t take other threes.

  18. Frank O.

    Hansborough really needs to be punched in the head.
    I’m already sick of this announcer. He’s clearing rooting for pacers

  19. Brian Cronin Post author

    It’s a three-point game in the first quarter. The Knicks are not in trouble at all yet.

  20. llcoolbp

    Kenyon banging down low just like the pacers do on melo every time down the court. Difference Kmart gets called for the foul. This is such bullshit.

  21. Juany8

    Frank O.:
    Hansborough really needs to be punched in the head.
    I’m already sick of this announcer. He’s clearing rooting for pacers

    Pretty much everyone is rooting against New York. Including the refs.

  22. Spree8nyk8

    david:
    There were three absolute howler calls — The push on Prigs (he embellished, but it was a foul), the double dribble, a moving West screen, and the Shumpert drive which led to a transition basket.

    Yeah those were all pretty wtf

  23. BigBlueAL

    The Knicks have played some awful 1st quarter defense this season but whatever doing so in the regular season where its easy to be disinterested is somewhat understandable. Doing so tonight is beyond unacceptable.

  24. llcoolbp

    Juany8: Pretty much everyone is rooting against New York. Including the refs.

    The anti ny bias is so strong and so ingrained in most of the country. In a sport like basketball where the refs can really influence the game, it’s hard to overcome that kind of ingrained subconscious bias.

  25. david

    Liking the fight from these guys (although the breakdown on the lance coast to coast drive was ridiculous). Thank goodness for Prigs.

    Anyone curious to see Camby on Hibbert? If he’s abusing Kmart and forcing doubles, it may be worth it

  26. AnonymousODG

    Frank O.: Dude….know what you’re talking about.

    Herp, derp. The 7th grade wants your retort back. I know exactly what I’m talking about. You’re focusing on one play. I could do the same on a George Hill miss, where Chandler and Hibbert were standing right next to each other and facing the basket and Hibbert just took the ball away from him.

    Luckily, I don’t need to base my entire argument on a single possession. Chandler is not rebounding. He’s not boxing out Hibbert. He’s not closing any lanes (how many easy layups have hey had lready????). The only thing he’s done is foul after being beat out of his position.

    So shut up, pretty please.

  27. Brian Cronin Post author

    Paul George isos are moronic. Let’s hope Indy keeps going to them.

  28. Frank O.

    llcoolbp:
    I can’t stand frank vogels accent either.

    There’s something about his over confidence. They’re dominant? They’re up by one and the Knicks played like shit. Please

  29. AnonymousODG

    BigBlueAL:
    For as much as Ive hated the D, absolutely love the Offense so far tonight.

    But Melo is such a selfish ballhog. He only has 1 assist. He shoots too much. He forces up difficult shots.

    /sarcasm

  30. surrenderyet

    Prigs <3.
    Actually kind of respect Vogel's swag during the mic clips. But hope they bloom next year, not now!

  31. david

    Although, Melo is getting hot, we need to sit him here — can’t play all 48, particularly with his shoulder. Wonder what the lineup will be — Felton, Smith, Kidd, Cope and Martin? I wish Kidd wasn’t in, as it gives them someone to sag off of.

  32. Nick C.

    llcoolbp: The anti ny bias is so strong and so ingrained in most of the country. In a sport like basketball where the refs can really influence the game, it’s hard to overcome that kind of ingrained subconscious bias.

    When the Daily News keeps using the word “hicks” in its headlines is it any wonder why?
    Be that as it may, down two is pretty good considering how they have played.

  33. llcoolbp

    Frank O.: There’s something about his over confidence. They’re dominant? They’re up by one and the Knicks played like shit. Please

    Every time I see vogels name I think of the SNL skit about the vogelchecks. The kissing family. And yeah he comes off as a douche when he made that comment about how “dominant” the pacers have been.

  34. smokinjoe

    im feeling ok about this,,as opposed to when Prigs hit that second 3 when i lost my mind..if Melo keeps playing like this, and we get just a little contribution from Prigs or Cope..and what about that found money Martin jumper??!! DEFENSE!! man i want this in the worst way

  35. Brian Cronin Post author

    I feel more confident on Cope catch and shoots than I am with JR catch and shoots right now.

  36. smokinjoe

    and JR buiiding a house..and more doubling..uhhgg
    and then COPELAND!!MAN I LOVE THIS GUY

  37. AnonymousODG

    If our second unit beats their second unit, it’ll be huge.

    In other news, the sky is blue. And sometimes black. At night.

  38. BigBlueAL

    JR still shooting awful but his energy is up there tonight on both ends of the court.

  39. Spree8nyk8

    BigBlueAL:
    OMG this lineup to start the 2nd quarter.

    I don’t mind them giving Amar’e a lil run, he’s working back in, if the game is close giving him a small burn to see where his progress is doesn’t upset me. Kidd being in is ridiculous though.

  40. Brian Cronin Post author

    Oh yeah, STAT is still on the team.

    Augustin is sooo dumb. I love it.

  41. Juany8

    I love how terrible the Pacers look when they try to run real offense. They really can’t do anything unless we double stupidly or they get a monster rebound differential

  42. Frank O.

    Augustine beat his guard and Amare at the five had to leave Hibbert. Fortunately Augustine is not a play maker

  43. Spree8nyk8

    Ok bring back stat and Felton/prigs and lets call it a win that we survived this.

  44. BigBlueAL

    Knicks are finally defending and putting bodies on people but everything is a foul on them.

  45. AnonymousODG

    STAT fouls Hibbert’s elbow with his chin. STAT’s such a thug attacking him like that. Especially with his 5 o’ clock shadow stubble. Refs shoulda called a flagrant or NBA should fine him.

  46. AnonymousODG

    BigBlueAL:
    OK enough of this lineup.Please get Melo and Felton or Prigs back in there.

    I was about to say they’re holding the line. Still 2 pt lead. Then I remembered that the refs called 5 fouls on them in 3:30 minutes.

  47. Frank O.

    Both teams are very good at keeping the other off balance. It makes for ugly basketball, but you have to respect it.

  48. david

    The only plausible story for playing Kidd is as a defender on Paul George. WHen George isn’t on the court? Er

  49. BigBlueAL

    Just fire Woodson now. Playing Kidd and Amar’e together for the first 5 minutes of the 2nd quarter was the dumbest thing you could have possibly fucking done.

  50. Frank O.

    Why does stat put the ball on the court in traffic?
    And why is the center the only man boxing in the paint?
    Where was Jr?
    What the hell is going on?

  51. maxwell_3g

    enough of kidd. get him out. these refs are a joke. enough of amare too. I know rge refs screwed that jump ball but only amare would allow that to screw him up

  52. Spree8nyk8

    dude he got away with this stupid lineup for so long, how the fuck is this guy an NBA coach? Dumbest shit I’ve ever seen. I mean you make the bad decision and it DOESN’T blow up in your face and you still don’t have the common sense to get away from it? I mean he could have taken them out 2 mins ago with the game tied.

  53. AnonymousODG

    Get Kidd the phuck out. He flailed and just fell on his stupid face, there wasn’t even a god damn screen, forcing Melo to come out from underneath the basket to contest the 3 and giving Young an easy rebound despite STAT properly boxing out his man. Kidd better be done for the night. I do not want to see him out there again.

  54. Frank O.

    Seriously, with Kidd and Kmart out there, every time Amare touches the ball, the pacers collapse. No threat of Kidd or Kmart to score…

  55. BigBlueAL

    yellowboy90:
    im ok if woody picks up an early T right now

    Im ok if he picks up 2 and gets tossed and someone else will be forced to coach.

  56. Frank O.

    Frank O.:
    Seriously, with Kidd and Kmart out there, every time Amare touches the ball, the pacers collapse. No threat of Kidd or Kmart to score…

    Wait. They have cope out there now…

  57. smokinjoe

    i just don’t understand this freaking team..they are sitting there moping while the Pacer outhustle them..this has got to change or we are finished..unbelievable how much JR is aiming his shot and then just the worst body language..yes he can defend and rebound but his production on that end seems to deflate with every missed shot..

  58. cgreene

    What about the double teaming does Woodson actually like in terms of what he sees?

  59. maxwell_3g

    gotdammit woodson. why r we doubling. seriously, if we don’t double, are we scared that west will go for 40? that hibbert will go for 50?

  60. Juany8

    Knicks are playing incredibly lazy and stupid. They’re making shots right now, but you can’t keep giving a terrible offense free points.

  61. Juany8

    How well does Prigs have to play to actually get playing time? He was the best player in the first quarter…

  62. Will the Thrill

    I think nearly every double leads to a wide open 3 or layup off of a missed rotation.

  63. Frank O.

    Tyson’s lack of scoring is allowing Bert to roam on D.
    JR is playing stupid. We have Earl tonight

  64. Juany8

    Damnit Chandler, you can’t just go straight up once this series? They’re not calling those fouls….

  65. cgreene

    Chandler does the stupid thing and brings his arms down and fouls. Hibbert would have gone straight up. Knicks are just a stupid stupid stupid team. Always have been. The 90s teams always did stupid shit too

  66. Hubert

    Stephenson is STILL getting coast to coast layups.

    We ain’t coming back from 8 down. Don’t have the stones.

    We lost this game in the 2Q w those STUPID fucking lineups and that WEAK ASS effort from JR Smith.

    Go fuck yourself, Knicks.

  67. Spree8nyk8

    Frank O.:
    Shump got robbed, but he’s not playing well

    No that was a dumbass foul, he definitely fouled there. Not that his other ones were all legit but why do you have to mob a guy that is 25 feet from the basket? We do stupid crap like that way too often.

  68. Brian Cronin Post author

    How well does Prigs have to play to actually get playing time? He was the best player in the first quarter…

    Great question.

  69. david

    We need to close out the quarter — If this is within 4 or so at the half it won’t be that bad….

  70. Frank O.

    I know. Chandler could have handled that differently. But he needed to send that message to Stephenson. He’s been able to get to glass too much, and Chandler needed to bring some pain

  71. Frank O.

    Spree8nyk8: No that was a dumbass foul, he definitely fouled there.Not that his other ones were all legit but why do you have to mob a guy that is 25 feet from the basket?We do stupid crap like that way too often.

    Fair, but it looked like hill hooked him, but he should never have been in that situation. You’re right

  72. cgreene

    This is where Melo will start to go solo and take bad shots because there is nothing else. Can you blame him?

  73. smokinjoe

    i like that Chandler volleyball spiked that Stephenson drive back in his face..Hill a surprising non factor.
    JR is the Pacers best player
    of course pacers making their freethrows..

    has anyone ever seen a player play as badly as JR?? maybe he can pick up the second tech and just get tossed..

  74. Juany8

    These Knicks are too fucking stupid to win regularly. Chandler being chief amongst them…

  75. Frank O.

    cgreene:
    This is where Melo will start to go solo and take bad shots because there is nothing else. Can you blame him?

    You’re right. He was just about to isolate. But he needs to play smarter

  76. maxwell_3g

    Frank O.:
    I know. Chandler could have handled that differently. But he needed to send that message to Stephenson. He’s been able to get to glass too much, and Chandler needed to bring some pain

    how about sending a message by getting a rebound? blocking a shot? making an open layup? I personally am completely sick of the Tyson chandler fake tough guy routine. hes been owned by hibbert and should be embarassed

  77. maxwell_3g

    marechal:
    Fuck these refs, fuck these announcers, fuck this coach, fuck JR.

    if JR is worth more than the mini MLE, then Lance Stephenson is a max player

  78. Juany8

    Somehow the Knicks might get it within a respectable distance by the half. Pacers are playing terrible, the Knicks just need to stop giving them free points.

  79. Spree8nyk8

    maxwell_3g: how about sending a message by getting a rebound?blocking a shot?making an open layup?I personally am completely sick of the Tyson chandler fake tough guy routine.hes been owned by hibbert and should be embarassed

    I vote just take the charge which he was perfectly set up for

  80. Spree8nyk8

    Just imagine where this game could be if we had any poise, and weren’t getting raped by the refs.

  81. EB

    I don’t know if Chandler should play the rest of the game. Amare has done better against Hibbert than he has.

  82. Spree8nyk8

    Jesus christ stephenson lowers the shoulder on priggy and then gets an and 1. The hits just keep on coming. This is fucking bullshit.

  83. Juany8

    Holy shit Lance Stephenson is making some utterly bs shots. He’s just jacking shit up at the rim and it’s going in. Still Knicks are plaiyng fucking dumb and without any kind of consistent intensity. You would think they had the series lead and a game 7 at home waiting…

  84. smokinjoe

    martin palying really well..when was the last game he made 2 jumpers in a game??
    holy shit,,Stephenson is MVP so far playing un stoppable..im giving us about 35% chance if we dont come out with our heads right and the Pacers dont give the game away..i really wanna see them get tight in the 4th if the game is close

  85. BigBlueAL

    Pretty fitting for the Knicks season to possibly end thanks to a pathetic defensive effort against a horrible offense.

  86. Bison

    Spree8nyk8:
    Jesus christ stephenson lowers the shoulder on priggy and then gets an and 1.The hits just keep on coming.This is fucking bullshit.

    Yeah, the Pacers have more than twice as many free throws as we do (21 vs 9). This has been happening all series. What is going on?

  87. AnonymousODG

    Bison:
    Pablo, be more careful!

    Pablo attacked Stephenson’s shoulder with his chest. Have you seen the pecs he’s got? Like steel plates. I hope Stephenson’s shoulder is ok. Doctors should test it out in halftime and refs should throw out that Argentine. Why do we let violent immigrants into this country like this?

    /sarcasm

  88. Juany8

    llcoolbp:
    Poor melo. He came to play today. Tyson, Felton and jr did not.

    Guess who’s going to get all the blame for this series?

  89. Z-man

    I have to say, this is a very entertaining game, a real battle of wills. Lots of big plays on both ends. Rignt now, the Knicks are getting out-willed, but at the same time, they are hanging in there. Hopefully they come out with more urgency in the second half.

  90. Frank O.

    maxwell_3g: how about sending a message by getting a rebound?blocking a shot?making an open layup?I personally am completely sick of the Tyson chandler fake tough guy routine.hes been owned by hibbert and should be embarassed

    Hibbert is out playing him.
    My point has been that the defense on the wings has been terrible. Hibbert has only 8 points and seven boards. Not dominant. Chandler has five boards and 2 points.
    Stephensen has been killing us. He has 16 points and as many boards as Hibbert.
    Felton is 0-5, Jr is 1-6. Cope 1-5.
    Chandler is the center, so we expect him to stop everything, but with him guarding a man who is 7’2 and 40 pounds heavier, the perimeter D needs to be better. Seeing more matador D from the wings than we have seen for a long time.
    Melo is playing well, but everyone else has mostly sucked.

  91. maxwell_3g

    Brian Cronin:
    That last 21 seconds could have gone better.

    lol. yep. we know that stephenson cant shoot, but it doesn’t matter if he gets to the rim every time

  92. Spree8nyk8

    er:
    shump needs to play stephenson, he is just bulldozing pablo badly

    Or the refs could do the right thing and call the offensive foul that it actually is.

  93. Bison

    AnonymousODG: Pablo attacked Stephenson’s shoulder with his chest.Have you seen the pecs he’s got?Like steel plates.I hope Stephenson’s shoulder is ok.Doctors should test it out in halftime and refs should throw out that Argentine.Why do we let violent immigrants into this country like this?

    /sarcasm

    Heh. If there is ever a good time for a Euro flop, that was it.

  94. Spree8nyk8

    maxwell_3g: lol.yep.we know that stephenson cant shoot, but it doesn’t matter if he gets to the rim every time

    Adrian Peterson could get to the rim I guess too. Not hard to do when you are allowed to bulldoze anything in your path. If melo did that they’d give him a flagrant lol.

  95. Spree8nyk8

    Bison: Heh.If there is ever a good time for a Euro flop, that was it.

    yeah bc obviously getting shoved 6 ft without flopping isn’t enough

  96. maxwell_3g

    er:
    melo has to go for 50 for any hope smh

    nooooooooo. melo is doing fine. really, we scored 47 points. 95 should beat the pacers. we need to stop the transition hoops and stop committing fouls in the beginning of quarters that leads to bonus free throws (yes Im looking at you amare and Kenyon)

  97. Hubert

    The worst part about this game is knowing Coach will go back to that Kidd-JR-Amare-Copeland-Martin lineup to start the 3rd.

    Time to face facts. Our coach is dumber than cow manure.

  98. ess-dog

    I was just going to say, jesus Woody, just glue Shump to Stephenson.

    And seriously, don’t play Amare and Copeland together, that’s just common sense. Unless you want to get killed on the boards.

    Woody is choking so hard tonight.

  99. smokinjoe

    hate to say it but it really feels like Vogel has just been one step ahead of Woody this whole series..Pacers pushing the pace (bad pun not intended) totally caught us off guard this game

  100. BigBlueAL

    First few minutes of the 2nd half will be the game. Knicks need to avoid letting the lead get into double digits. Just keep the game fairly close into the 4th quarter and hope they can make a run and make Indiana feel some pressure.

  101. Hubert

    Hubert:
    The worst part about this game is knowing Coach will go back to that Kidd-JR-Amare-Copeland-Martin lineup to start the 3rd.

    Time to face facts. Our coach is dumber than cow manure.

    I mean to start the 4th

  102. maxwell_3g

    I will say one thing. I think the pacers have a better shot against the Heat. im looking for a silver lining

  103. BigBlueAL

    Hubert:
    The worst part about this game is knowing Coach will go back to that Kidd-JR-Amare-Copeland-Martin lineup to start the 3rd.

    Time to face facts. Our coach is dumber than cow manure.

    Considering Kidd and Amare didnt play in 2nd half of Game 5 Im going to assume the same will happen tonight. Even Woodson aint that stupid. I think.

  104. AnonymousODG

    smokinjoe:
    hate to say it but it really feels like Vogel has just been one step ahead of Woody this whole series..Pacers pushing the pace (bad pun not intended) totally caught us off guard this game

    An inanimate block of wood could stay ahead of Woodsom’s coaching.

  105. ruruland

    Frank O.: Hibbert is out playing him.
    My point has been that the defense on the wings has been terrible. Hibbert has only 8 points and seven boards. Not dominant. Chandler has five boards and 2 points.
    Stephensen has been killing us. He has 16 points and as many boards as Hibbert.
    Felton is 0-5, Jr is 1-6. Cope 1-5.
    Chandler is the center, so we expect him to stop everything, but with him guarding a man who is 7’2 and 40 pounds heavier, the perimeter D needs to be better. Seeing more matador D from the wings than we have seen for a long time.
    Melo is playing well, but everyone else has mostly sucked.

    Wait, wait , wait, what do you think Hibbert does when guys drive into the paint?

    Chandler is always right there on the weakside, but Hibbert defends the ball.

    Chandler almost never comes off his man to contest shots. This is not something new. The numbers point to Chandler being a poor rim protector. When he does try to protect, he can’t do it without committing a foul.

    People think Chandler is injured, but he’s having the same issues he’s had all season and even last year.

    He’s much more of a power forward defensively, and it should be no surprise that the times he’s played well on defense this year is when he’s been allowed to play outside the paint.

    Like I said months ago, right now Amar’e and Kmart offer more rim protection than Tyson.

    It’s probably going to be one of the three biggest reasons the Knicks season ends prematurely, if it does.

  106. ephus

    I have been a steadfast JR supporter, but I am still shaking my head at the rebound in the corner that he nonchalanted into a Pacer possession. If JR is not going to sell out with effort, he should not play.

  107. smokinjoe

    just give me 2nd half with heart..all i ask, win or lose is..dont go out with a whimper..knowing the knicks though..we totally lose our cool over this terrible officiating and start piling up the techs and just implode..damn i sound pessimistic..

  108. MSA

    maxwell_3g:
    I will say one thing.I think the pacers have a better shot against the Heat.im looking for a silver lining

    The Pacers don’t have any shot against the Heat.

    Those turnovers will kill them in four games

  109. johnlocke

    He is a &$&$&#*#I* numbskull!! How do you play Kidd as the only PG for so many #&#&#& minutes!! How do you play Kidd so many minutes period? We were tied when he checked in and down 6 or 8 when he came out. He is just too slow and old against this damn team. Why is Melo running down the court with his back turned? Why is Chandler not giving ANY help at all. Why are we making Lance Stephenson look like Wade? Hope I’m wrong, but I see nothing, no indication that shows we are capable of pulling this one out. We don’t deserve to win with the effort we are giving, and that lack of effort is just fucking unforgivable. Going to get back to drinking now…

    BigBlueAL: Considering Kidd and Amare didnt play in 2nd half of Game 5 Im going to assume the same will happen tonight.Even Woodson aint that stupid.I think.

  110. ruruland

    AnonymousODG: An inanimate block of wood could stay ahead of Woodsom’s coaching.

    No excuse for keeping Jr Smith in the game over Prigs or Copeland.

    A couple games ago you could argue on his behalf. After this stretch from JR, with how he’s playing tonight (tunnel vision), it’s a fireable offense.

    Jr Smith has imploded, and Woodson has enabled it.

  111. smokinjoe

    ephus:
    I have been a steadfast JR supporter, but I am still shaking my head at the rebound in the corner that he nonchalanted into a Pacer possession.If JR is not going to sell out with effort, he should not play.

    that one killed me too..he is so busy feeling sorry for himself that he forgets to play..the only time he gets up a little is when he get the ball on offense and then he AIms the hell out of the ball and prays that it will bounce in somehow..he has really lost his confidence and he doesn’t play on both ends when his shots dont fall..

  112. cgreene

    I hate the fact that I know deep down the franchise is wedded to this cast including JR. They really think he can be great and they’re wrong. He can’t. He doesn’t have the mental fortitude.

  113. Frank O.

    Anyone believe Stephensen will play this well in the second half? I don’t.
    I think Woodson again gives Kidd a long ride on the pine.
    I think Felton’s ankle is affecting his mobility. I think Shump’s knee is affecting him. I think chandler as no lift, whether it was his knee or his ass from that fall.
    Simply put JR needs to get his head out of his ass. We then need some one else to step.
    This team has done nothing easily this season, and has a penchant for the dramatic.
    One half to get it right

  114. d-mar

    It’s pretty simple, if a stiff like Lance Stephenson is going to have a big game, we have zero chance of winning this game

  115. johnlocke

    That had me almost throw my bottled beer into my TV… luckily calmer heads prevailed. That and when he didn’t swing to a wide open Melo and dribbled off his foot instead…fuck JR.

    No more Kidd, keep JR on constrained minutes, and Kick Tyson in the nuts or sit him…

    ephus:
    I have been a steadfast JR supporter, but I am still shaking my head at the rebound in the corner that he nonchalanted into a Pacer possession.If JR is not going to sell out with effort, he should not play.

  116. Spree8nyk8

    well at least this was pretty cool lol

    NBA retweeted you
    4m:
    @JerseyGirlxo_ @NYPost_Berman @NBA Berman hates the Knicks, he’d tell you the game was called clean

  117. ephus

    If the Pacers are not going to double Melo, the offense needs to keep running through him in the low post.

  118. Frank O.

    ruruland: Wait, wait , wait, what do you think Hibbert does when guys drive into the paint?

    Chandler is always right there on the weakside, but Hibbert defends the ball.

    Chandler almost never comes off his man to contest shots. This is not something new. The numbers point to Chandler being a poor rim protector. When he does try to protect, he can’t do it without committing a foul.

    People think Chandler is injured, but he’s having the same issues he’s had all season and even last year.

    He’s much more of a power forward defensively, and it should be no surprise that the times he’s played well on defense this year is when he’s been allowed to play outside the paint.

    Like I said months ago, right now Amar’e and Kmart offer more rim protection than Tyson.

    It’s probably going to be one of the three biggest reasons the Knicks season ends prematurely, if it does.

    Right. Hibbert can come to help because Tyson has been no real threat to score. Hibbert inside is a far greater threat. If chandler leaves him, he kills us.

  119. BigBlueAL

    Forget it, this is over. The Pacers are so comfortable on offense everything they throw up now they expect to go in and is going in.

  120. maxwell_3g

    chandler sucks. just take him out. he has been the worst of anyone, including JR. we are better off with kenyon

  121. smokinjoe

    chandler sucks so bad..thank god he has 4 fouls..sorry i just cannot stand to watch him anymore

  122. mj1

    Is Chandler mailing it in or what? The dude MUST be hurt or something. HOW can you decide to suck in THIS of all games? Time to get real guys, we are not beating this Pacer team with Melo and a bunch of no shows.

  123. Frank O.

    Look at that. Martina’s the ball, Melo in the paint, and three Knicks standing around.
    Without Melo, this is a blow out

  124. maxwell_3g

    Never been a melo guy, but THIS AINT ON MELO. the pacers have to cool down soon

  125. AnonymousODG

    Why in the seven hells is Melo passing the ball to any of his sh1tty teammates (other than Prigs). Phuck. THERE’S NOBODY ELSE, MELO.

  126. ephus

    That was a perfect pass out if the post to JR for 3. JR has to hit everry assisted 3.

  127. BigBlueAL

    Really hope next postseason Shump is capable of torching PF’s who cover him. That would be a huge next step for him. Its a much needed next step too.

  128. smokinjoe

    maxwell_3g:
    chandler sucks.just take him out.he has been the worst of anyone, including JR.we are better off with kenyon

    i dunno quick poll, who sucks more this game JR or Chandler?

  129. ruruland

    Frank O.: Right. Hibbert can come to help because Tyson has been no real threat to score. Hibbert inside is a far greater threat. If chandler leaves him, he kills us.

    I’m telling you it doesn’t matter who Chandler is guarding, he will not leave them. Chandler is a better finisher than Hibbert, and Hibbert contests.

  130. Frank O.

    This has been Melo’s best game of the series. Good time for it.
    But one guy needs to step up

  131. mj1

    AnonymousODG:
    Why in the seven hells is Melo passing the ball to any of his sh1tty teammates (other than Prigs).Phuck.THERE’S NOBODY ELSE, MELO.

    I’m feeling you dude, but really, if all we got is Melo, how can the NYK possibly win this? The only hope is for the Pacers to go on one of those 10 min scoring droughts and it does not look like that’s in the cards tonight with the shitty defense we are seeing from the NYK.

  132. jaredrutledge

    i’m literally screaming at my TV for these idiots to cut without the ball. they’re just standing around.

  133. Frank O.

    JR is an emotion surfer.
    Watch him get hot. Shump may have ignited something, and Felton’s O board was major. He literally shoved west in the chest to get that board

  134. ephus

    There is nothing JR Smith cannot do on a basketball court. K I is need good JR for the next 15 minutes.

  135. BigBlueAL

    It would be nice if the Pacers were forced to make actual shots and not just FT’s.

  136. Spree8nyk8

    MSA:
    Do we have to foul them every single possession?

    The refs would say yes! Unless the pacers score

  137. ephus

    Paul George cannot handle Melo in the low post. It’s easy to miss that because Paul George can handle Melo when he posts at the elbow.

  138. Spree8nyk8

    They have no problem saying that every single foul by NY is legit and every non call for indiana is “straight up”

  139. AnonymousODG

    I love Shump’s offensive mind. Clearly something has clicked. But he’s been beaten off the dribble multiple times tonight. It’s the reason for all his fouls. He gets beat, is behind his man and grabs the guy’s waist. Need more defense.

  140. Brian Cronin Post author

    Wait, so whoever leads after 3 wins the game, so will this game just never end?

  141. BigBlueAL

    Just AWFUL D by JR to end the quarter. Couldve gone to the 4th with a lead.

    Well this is what we wanted, tie game heading into the final quarter.

  142. d-mar

    Ok fellas now’s the time to take a lead and make the Pacers think real hard about how they do not want to go back to NY

  143. llcoolbp

    moved to my desk top computer so i could check email. Watching the game on espn.com. I definitely can’t move back to big screen now.

  144. Spree8nyk8

    maxwell_3g:
    the key.no stupid fouls early in the quarter.we do not need to be in the bonus

    Well that didn’t happen but at least there has been fouls on Indy as well.

  145. maxwell_3g

    I would not be mad with woodson if he rolled with Kenyon for the 4th quarter. hes better than Tyson right now. which means….he will bring in Tyson immediately

  146. AnonymousODG

    Crap. Chandler’s back in. We need a patented redemption fourth quarter from him. We’ve seen it before.

  147. Will the Thrill

    If we can hold the lead for more than one possession I would be thrilled. COPELANDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD

  148. Frank O.

    HOW WAS THAT NOT A FOUL ON HIBBERT HACKING JR!!!!
    Goddamn. He even threw his hands in the air as a give away, and no call

  149. maxwell_3g

    we have the momentum. we need to get control of this game. JR…..if there was ever the time for you to show up instead of The Pipe…..please

  150. maxwell_3g

    I will say this again. hibbert shot in the low 40’s in fg % this year. this is not Hakeem. why are we fouling and doubling??

  151. Spree8nyk8

    God damn it, that is not an offensive foul. Come the fuck on refs just let them play

  152. AnonymousODG

    mj1:
    Thank god Chandler fouls out.

    +1

    Idiot misses a pass on the pick n’ roll which leads to a Pacers fastbreak and just fouls Stephenson like a cunt.

  153. BigBlueAL

    Getting eliminate by Lance fucking Stephenson. Fitting end to this Knick season, cant stop a fucking scrub.

  154. mj1

    bidiong:
    Going to let Lance fucking Stevenson beat us! Damn it!

    The Heat will eat his lunch and we’ll never hear from him again

  155. maxwell_3g

    I cant believe that lance Stevenson has done us in. and melo shrunk at the worst time. I kind of feel a little bad for him.

  156. david

    “Revitalized the NBA in this hotbed”???? Empty damn seats all season….

    This game sucks. Lance Stevenson? Uck

  157. AnonymousODG

    Everything was going so good when Chandler was out. Working a 3 pt lead. Then he comes in. -17 right now on +/-. God, I really hate him right now. I really… really hate him.

  158. Frank O.

    Melo just isn’t playing well.
    Two killer turnovers, 1-6.
    Now the Pacers have revitalized the nBA?

  159. llcoolbp

    bottom line we were right there in this game. Melo shit his pants these last few minutes. Woodson with ridiculous substitutions. Chandler has been absolutely useless this entire series.

  160. ephus

    Melo had been the reason the Knicks were in the game. Then he punched himself out. He has a second wind coming, I hope.

  161. Nick C.

    Wow what a game. I must admit once the Knicks got up by three I thought it was over. Did not expect Lance Stephenson to channel his NYC HS days.

  162. BigBlueAL

    For everyone here who kept saying during the season that the Knicks D was very good its just that they dont try all the time and are pacing themselves, really wish you guys were right.

  163. AnonymousODG

    Woodson too busy yelling at the ref to draw up a play during the free throws and forces the Knicks to burn their last timeout in a two possession game. smh

  164. llcoolbp

    29 year old melo next year (in his 11th season), 31 year old tyson, 31 year old stat. This is going to get ugly the next few years unless we get a miracle in the draft.

  165. mj1

    AnonymousODG:
    Everything was going so good when Chandler was out.Working a 3 pt lead.Then he comes in.-17 right now on +/-.God, I really hate him right now.I really… really hate him.

    That fucking guy needs to spend the whole god damned summer with the Dream getting some fucking offensive game. If he’s going to play like shit on defense, at least be able to score a point or two.

  166. Brian Cronin Post author

    Still just a two possession game! Just need to hit some threes! That call on K-Mart was terrible.

  167. ess-dog

    Man Indy is about as mediocre a team as you can find. They hustle on D and on the boards, but any team worth a shit should take them in a series.

  168. d-mar

    Will everyone who is blaming this on Melo please just stfu. If it wasn’t for him we would have been blown out much earlier

  169. Brian Cronin Post author

    Woodson should be fired just for not fouling there. Fuck the heck!?!?

  170. mj1

    Brian Cronin:
    Still just a two possession game! Just need to hit some threes! That call on K-Mart was terrible.

    Yep. Hate to say it, but this was a winnable game and I don’t blame it all on the refs, but most of it. Been a nice ride, but ended too soon. I’ll check out the last recap tomorrow. Hope this leaves this team hungry enough to do the off season work that needs to be done.

  171. AnonymousODG

    Let’s praise last year’s DPOY, Tyson Chandler, leading our team defense who let the Indiana Pacers score 106 pts in regulation.

  172. BigBlueAL

    Its simple, if this team truly wants to take the next step next season hire a Van Gundy. This team has the talent to compete for a title but they sure as hell dont have the coach to get them there.

    Oh and if they do re-sign JR it better be for a 2yr deal and no promises of anything better after. Letting him go would be fine with me at this point.

  173. Will the Thrill

    Can’t put the blame on Melo because he obviously carried us earlier, but his play in the 4th was disheartening. This series was lost with poor offense by mostly JR, Chandler and to a lesser extent Melo.

  174. Nick C.

    Great season, even if it didn’t last as long as I thought it would. That being said, the last Indy possession was about as close to a fireable offense as it gets

  175. Z-man

    I have to say, I’m not crushed as bad as I thought I would be, and I really admire the Pacers, they played like a team should play. Good for them.

    As for us, I think Shump is reason for hope, I would like for JR to move on, and Tyson has gone down many notches in my esteem.

    Maybe Amare gets humbled and realizes that he needs to be a 2-way player.

    Overall, disappointing but a great season compared to what we have endured, wait until next year!

    Thanks to all for the lively and lofty dialogue here. Now, back to my Scotch.

  176. Brian Cronin Post author

    The whole team is to blame for this loss. No need to pick scapegoats. Some played worse than others, of course, but come on, this is on everyone.

  177. david

    Really fun season, with a disappointing end. Horrific refs, bad coaching, and insane clock management to finish it off.

    That said, I really hate the Pacers, both as a team, and for what it signifies for basketball. A playoffs with the Grizzlies, the Spurs, and the Pacers is a step back for the NBA, a return to the insanity of early 90s basketball. The refs decided the series, but not through insane calls tonight (although there were certainly those), but by calling the playoffs differently from the rest of the season, with tons of rough play allowed. As long as they allow bullyball, we’re going to be at a major disadvantage. And the league is going to be worse — the post Suns NBA has been built on not letting big men clobber drivers. And if they go back on that, well, the product is going to be much, much worse.

    I’m rooting for the Heat to kill these guys. The future of the league depends on it….

  178. AnonymousODG

    Will the Thrill:
    Can’t put the blame on Melo because he obviously carried us earlier, but his play in the 4th was disheartening.This series was lost with poor offense by mostly JR, Chandler and to a lesser extent Melo.

    Mostly Chandler, then JR, then Woodson for letting Kidd take all of Copeland/Prigs’ minutes.

  179. d-mar

    I don’t think it’s possible to have a worse playoff series than JR just had, you can’t blame one guy but he was absolutely horrible in all aspects of the game.

  180. er

    Will the Thrill:
    Can’t put the blame on Melo because he obviously carried us earlier, but his play in the 4th was disheartening.This series was lost with poor offense by mostly JR, Chandler and to a lesser extent Melo.

    dont bring up melo dude, cut the shit

  181. Brian Cronin Post author

    I have to say, I’m not crushed as bad as I thought I would be, and I really admire the Pacers, they played like a team should play. Good for them.

    As for us, I think Shump is reason for hope, I would like for JR to move on, and Tyson has gone down many notches in my esteem.

    Maybe Amare gets humbled and realizes that he needs to be a 2-way player.

    Overall, disappointing but a great season compared to what we have endured, wait until next year!

    Thanks to all for the lively and lofty dialogue here. Now, back to my Scotch.

    Yeah, like i said, you convinced me that I should be disappointed by this loss, but enough of me is still happy by them getting this far. ;)

  182. smokinjoe

    BigBlueAL:
    Its simple, if this team truly wants to take the next step next season hire a Van Gundy.This team has the talent to compete for a title but they sure as hell dont have the coach to get them there.

    Oh and if they do re-sign JR it better be for a 2yr deal and no promises of anything better after.Letting him go would be fine with me at this point.

    JR and Chandler have just been shells of themselves this whole postseason..Chandler has got to he hurt..he cannot have truly fallen so far. .and JR..there are no words for this guy..hes entertaaining yes but he is the definition of a head case

  183. er

    d-mar:
    I don’t think it’s possible to have a worse playoff series than JR just had, you can’t blame one guy but he was absolutely horrible in all aspects of the game.

    3 plays cost us this game, the block on melo and the 2 backdoor layups given up by Earl Smith III

  184. AnonymousODG

    Brian Cronin:
    The whole team is to blame for this loss. No need to pick scapegoats. Some played worse than others, of course, but come on, this is on everyone.

    Disagree. Chandler didn’t do anything tonight except leave the lane wide open.

    JR at least made a clutch 3 to help tie it despite his 4/15 shooting and terrible defense. Felton kept George Hill quiet for the game despite shooting 0/7. Shump brought us back with four straight 3s despite getting constantly beaten off the dribble and fouling like an idiot from behind five different times. Melo carried us through 2 1/2 quarters singlehandedly despite the fourth quarter garbage play where he passed too much. Chris Copeland made three clutch 3s despite getting destroyed by West everytime he was fed the ball. KMart held the fort against Hibbert despite committing several meaningless fouls that sent the Pacers to the line.

    Chandler lost us this game. The rest of the team brought us back into it. Woodson fumbled our slim chances at the end. But Chandler lost us this game by providing absolutely nothing.

  185. Hubert

    I will always support this team. But I can never believe in them so long as that fool is the coach.

    He won’t get fired, either. Don’t get your hopes up. He probably ranks high as an MSG employee.

    But he’s a useless idiot. He was the Celtics’ best weapon in round 1. And he was Vogel’s B1tch in round 2.

    I’m listening to him talk right now, and he just has no clue that he had no clue. That 2nd quarter lineup gave them the game. End of story.

    God damn fool.

  186. BigBlueAL

    Im going to have a very hard time watching basketball the next 2 weeks. Probably wont be doing much watching of anything other than Yankee games in the immediate future.

    Hoping for a Heat-Spurs Finals because that would be real fun to watch.

  187. JR Sec 112

    Chandler, JR, and Woodson main culprits for sure. But Chandler is the most troubling. JR is volatile – we all knew that. He’s never been a consistent guy, so we had to live with the possibility he would have a terrible series. Woodson was bad, but at least he had the balls to admit he was wrong. He still coached better in game 5 and 6 than in the first 4.

    Chandler’s play was the difference in the series. I hope it was due to a lingering back/neck issue. If we got just average play at the C from him, we probably win the series.

  188. Frank O.

    The block on Melo, two key Melo turnovers that led to PAcers’ baskets, and some stupid stupid play in the end.
    The Jr failure to block out on that foul shot was just stupefying.
    Mental breakdowns, this team’s Achilles heel.
    And Tyson was a huge let down.
    Some poor coaching as well. Burned through too many timeouts.

  189. smokinjoe

    d-mar:
    Will everyone who is blaming this on Melo please just stfu. If it wasn’t for him we would have been blown out much earlier

    +1

  190. Will the Thrill

    Melo really played amazing tonight for 3 quarters, but his 4th quarter was pretty bad despite his heroic performance earlier on. Even if we wouldn’t have been in the position to win the game without Melo, he doesn’t get a pass for the 4th. And I meant the entire series as a whole, not just tonight. But really, it was mainly on Chandler and JR

    er: dont bring up melo dude, cut the shit

  191. Brian Cronin Post author

    He won’t get fired, either. Don’t get your hopes up. He probably ranks high as an MSG employee.

    You’re almost certainly correct.

    Did he even explain why they didn’t foul down 6 with 25 seconds left? They just gave up!

  192. BigBlueAL

    Also have to say as much as this loss hurts because of the blown 4th quarter lead and truly awful coaching decisions gotta give the team alot of credit for the way they fought tonight. There were a couple of occasions I thought they were about to get blown out but they showed heart and toughness.

    In a couple of hours I will be able to look back at this team and greatly appreciate the season and even how they didnt quit and give up when they went down 3-1 in this series.

  193. Spree8nyk8

    34-16 and we still took a 4th quarter lead, this was a heist. I don’t wanna hear about Indiana, this game was not won by the pacers it was stolen.

  194. smokinjoe

    Vogel..do we really need to see your kids too..are they taking questions? What a douche..just go to the podium by yourself..you didnt win the superbowl

  195. Will the Thrill

    George Hill missed a glaring amount of open 3 pointers today. Felton was shit all game.

    AnonymousODG: Felton kept George Hill quiet for the game despite shooting 0/7

  196. Brian Cronin Post author

    Looking at the replay, did Hibbert seriously block Melo’s dunk attempt with, like, the tips of his fingers!? Holy shit!

  197. Will the Thrill

    Overall, I am pleased with this season but really wanted to at least play against Miami. I pretty much have no idea what we are about to see roster-wise next year and don’t know if I should be excited or not but we’l see I guess haha

  198. duchamp fitz

    With the season over…my summary.
    Melo-in
    Shump-in
    Ray-in
    Cope-in
    Prigs-in
    Chandler-in (hopefully he was unhealthy)
    Stat-in (I still believe in his heart)
    Kenyon-in (but he needs to get smarter)
    Kidd-out (love him, but too old)
    Woodson-out (I tried to believe, but he’s not elite)

    What the Knicks need most for next year is a quick defender for guys like Roy Hill and all the lesser quick guards (Steph Curry) that torched them all season. Someone like Avery Bradley. That and a tall athletic defender.

  199. AnonymousODG

    smokinjoe: +1

    d-mar:
    Will everyone who is blaming this on Melo please just stfu. If it wasn’t for him we would have been blown out much earlier

    +1

    He singlehandedly kept a 12 pt lead from ballooning through five minutes of clutch scoring and brought it down to 7. Which gave Shump/JR their chance to tie and then give the Knicks the lead (brief as it was).

    Ironically, Melo’s biggest sin in the fourth quarter was passing too much. Both Chandler and KMart ran the pick and roll and somehow neither of them expected or looked for a pass on the switch for the mismatch. The Hibbert block is probably the greatest, most spectacular block I’ve ever seen live. Can’t blame Melo for that. It will be the signature play for this playoff run and be replayed for years in Pacer sports coverage.

  200. Brian Cronin Post author

    JR will be back, at least. So that’s good.

    I worry that Cope’s play in the last two games might get him a contract that the Knicks can’t match. If someone offers him $3,000,001 the Knicks can’t match.

  201. Brian Cronin Post author

    Woodson will be back, but he really shouldn’t. An owner less shitty than Dolan would hire a top coach. Dolan doesn’t want top coaches, though. He wants company men.

  202. smokinjoe

    AnonymousODG:
    +1

    He singlehandedly kept a 12 pt lead from ballooning through five minutes of clutch scoring and brought it down to 7.Which gave Shump/JR their chance to tie and then give the Knicks the lead (brief as it was).

    Ironically, Melo’s biggest sin in the fourth quarter was passing too much.Both Chandler and KMart ran the pick and roll and somehow neither of them expected or looked for a pass on the switch for the mismatch.The Hibbert block is probably the greatest, most spectacular block I’ve ever seen live.Can’t blame Melo for that.It will be the signature play for this playoff run and be replayed for years in Pacer sports coverage.

    2 of those 4th qtr Melo TOs were him passing to teammates who COMPLETLY did not expect a pass..but if Melo shoots and misses..ballhog..shooting us out of the game..

  203. Owen

    It was insane.

    I feel a contentious offseason coming on. But it was a fun one. Tough tough loss. But they gave it their all.

    Brian Cronin:
    Looking at the replay, did Hibbert seriously block Melo’s dunk attempt with, like, the tips of his fingers!? Holy shit!

  204. ruruland

    AnonymousODG:
    +1

    He singlehandedly kept a 12 pt lead from ballooning through five minutes of clutch scoring and brought it down to 7.Which gave Shump/JR their chance to tie and then give the Knicks the lead (brief as it was).

    Ironically, Melo’s biggest sin in the fourth quarter was passing too much.Both Chandler and KMart ran the pick and roll and somehow neither of them expected or looked for a pass on the switch for the mismatch.The Hibbert block is probably the greatest, most spectacular block I’ve ever seen live.Can’t blame Melo for that.It will be the signature play for this playoff run and be replayed for years in Pacer sports coverage.

    In most contexts I wouldn’t have had a problem with Hibbert’s block , but he had as much arm as he had ball. He had to get his arm to get to the ball.

    Given the kind of fouls the Knicks were getting called for, that was a foul.

    This series was decided as much by the Pacers physical superiority as it was the officials calling two separate games.

    The Knicks were not allowed to match the Pacers physicality.

  205. BigBlueAL

    Also since Woodson aint going nowhere the biggest key to next season really is his ability to look back on this season and specifically this series and hopefully truly learn and improve as a coach.

    I have no problems with this roster for next season. Would love to keep Prigs and specifically Cope but that might be hard to do. I dont care if JR leaves but again a 2 yr-10 mil deal which is around the most the Knicks can offer would be fine with me. Shump’s continued improvement is obviously HUGE. His stock has risen the most in my eyes this postseason. I truly love the kid right now.

    Also hey 24th pick in the draft this year, hopefully they can find a decent bench player. Amare and Camby being healthy for most of the season would be nice too, ditto having KMart from the beginning.

    I assume I will probably be in the minority but right now I fully expect another 50+ win season and hopefully a trip to the conference finals. That should clearly be the goal next season although it will be probably be a much tougher task with other teams in the East improving. But hopefully this postseason will add further fuel to their fire and make them that much tougher and motivated next season.

  206. JR Sec 112

    Shumpert is the key to next season. He’s shown signs of making the leap. he could be a Paul George-type 2 way impact player on both ends next year. If he does and bigs stay healthy, they might have a fighting chance.

    Also, need better offseason signings. using our limited resources to sign Jason Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, and Marcus Camby really hurt us. Thats on Grunwald.

  207. duchamp fitz

    Brian Cronin:
    Looking at the replay, did Hibbert seriously block Melo’s dunk attempt with, like, the tips of his fingers!? Holy shit!

    Body foul

  208. ruruland

    JR Sec 112:
    Shumpert is the key to next season.He’s shown signs of making the leap.he could be a Paul George-type 2 way impact player on both ends next year.If he does and bigs stay healthy, they might have a fighting chance.

    Also, need better offseason signings.using our limited resources to sign Jason Kidd, Rasheed Wallace, and Marcus Camby really hurt us.Thats on Grunwald.

    Kidd was very solid much of the season. Not playing Camby is on Woody.

    Shump can make that leap, and be a more efficient version of George. If he gets a reputation as a great defender, he might one day be allowed to play defense like him, too.

  209. maxwell_3g

    AnonymousODG: Mostly Chandler, then JR, then Woodson for letting Kidd take all of Copeland/Prigs’ minutes.

    agreed 1000000000% percent. I may go chandler, then woodson, then JR. im more understanding with JR because we all knew who he really was going in. that is why we only had to pay a 17 pt a game scorer 2.5 mill a year. hes a headcase and absolutely cant be relied upon

  210. BigBlueAL

    Anybody with criticism for Melo for this game tonight is nuts. I know he has his detractors here and always will but tonight even them if they are truly Knick fans should be proud of his play tonight.

  211. Brian Cronin Post author

    SAS isn’t impressed with the block. “He’s 7 foot 2, Melo’s 6 foot 8, you should make that play. I won’t give him cookies and milk for that.”

  212. John R.

    Honestly, I hope Copeland goes the JR route and sticks with the team for slightly less. You guys all get on Woodson, but he has really special bonds with his players. Sure, his philosophy did not pay off the first few games of the series, but at least he was man enough to accept that responsibility.

    It wasn’t all his fault: the Knicks offense was anemic, the usual producers eccentric, and the defense really just disappointing. Plus, we have to give the Pacers some credit- not doubling Melo disallowed us from getting our role players hot when they needed to be. Furthermore, their bigs were physically imposing forces that stayed anchored in the paint the entire time. All season, the Knicks did NOT match up well against teams like this. I specifically remember all of the games against the Bulls, a game against these Pacers and a game with the Grizzlies early in the season.

    We also need to give the referees a special shoutout all year for screwing us over constantly.

    Looking at Tyson now in his press conference, I know that this stuff bothers him. Same goes for Amar’e. We can expect their heart to be there next year.

    Knicks fans- Stop getting down on the guys we’ve all exalted. This team would be nothing without Tyson Chandler: his attitude adjustment is huge. Carmelo emerged as truly and unarguably dominant this year, our bench of mercenaries and unexpected folk did pretty well.

    The Pacers were a really bad match up for the Knicks. Going into next year, the Knicks need a quick, strong guy who can run the break and defend with tenacity. We also need a big man who is adept in the post, can spread the floor with good jumpshooting and play on ball post defense with strength and energy.

    Otherwise, I’m confident in our roster. The only thing stopping us is the salary cap. Stop getting down on the Knicks, our guys didn’t show up, from Felton to Tyson to JR to Ol’ Man Kidd.

    Marcus Camby?

  213. er

    ruruland: Watch Hibbert go through Melo’s arm prior to the peak of the play.

    i actually dont mind the no call here. But this verticality bullshit was too much for me, especially since it didnt go both ways

  214. ruruland

    BigBlueAL:
    Anybody with criticism for Melo for this game tonight is nuts.I know he has his detractors here and always will but tonight even them if they are truly Knick fans should be proud of his play tonight.

    He actually got 8 free-throws tonight. Amazing he even got those calls. Two of his fourth quarter misses were clearly fouls, especially in the context of the Pacers whistle.

    Melo needs to figure out a way to start getting some calls because it’s a HUGE factor in his game and for the Knicks.

    he needs to totally change his relationship with officials. One call a game would might mean 3-4 more wins a season.

    His free-throw to rim attempt ratio, from what I’ve looked at, is not comparable to any of the top scorers I’ve looked at the last 20 years.

    And Melo plays in more contact, with far fewer breakways, than most high scorers over the years.

  215. Brian Cronin Post author

    Anybody with criticism for Melo for this game tonight is nuts. I know he has his detractors here and always will but tonight even them if they are truly Knick fans should be proud of his play tonight.

    I think I have seen about 10 times as much pre-emptive defense against Melo criticism than I have seen actual Melo criticism. Where are these comments killing Melo for tonight?

  216. er

    Brian Cronin:
    SAS isn’t impressed with the block. “He’s 7 foot 2, Melo’s 6 foot 8, you should make that play. I won’t give him cookies and milk for that.”

    This made me smile. Thanks Steve

  217. JR Sec 112

    BigBlueAL:
    Anybody with criticism for Melo for this game tonight is nuts.I know he has his detractors here and always will but tonight even them if they are truly Knick fans should be proud of his play tonight.

    Agreed. He owned one of the best defenders in the league for 3 quarters, he willingly passed in the 4th out of the double, he kept his man off the offensive glass all night (outrebounded George and West). I thought his performance was bordering on heroic.

  218. ruruland

    er: i actually dont mind the no call here. But this verticality bullshit was too much for me, especially since it didnt go both ways

    I don’t either, generally speaking. But the Pacers were living off those kinds of calls all game.

  219. Bison

    AnonymousODG:
    Ironically, Melo’s biggest sin in the fourth quarter was passing too much. Both Chandler and KMart ran the pick and roll and somehow neither of them expected or looked for a pass on the switch for the mismatch.

    That’s been Melo’s problem over his entire career: he takes so many shots that his teammates mentally check out of the game.

    Michael Jordan and Lebron James realized what was happening and started trusting their teammates more. I’m not sure Melo is smart enough to learn this lesson; he’s probably thinking that he just needs a bigger portrait of himself over his fireplace.

  220. ruruland

    Brian Cronin: I think I have seen about 10 times as much pre-emptive defense against Melo criticism than I have seen actual Melo criticism. Where are these comments killing Melo for tonight?

    C’mon. You don’t think it’s coming? Because it was pre-empted, might hold it off for a bit.

    Owen “Tyson played a great series” and the crew will be here shortly.

  221. ruruland

    Bison: That’s been Melo’s problem over his entire career: he takes so many shots that his teammates mentally check out of the game.

    Michael Jordan and Lebron James realized what was happening and started trusting their teammates more.I’m not sure Melo is smart enough to learn this lesson; he’s probably thinking that he just needs a bigger portrait of himself over his fireplace.

    and we’re off…..

  222. Owen

    Melo finally had a good game. Whoopee….

    Great interview with JR Smith. Taking it super hard. Said all the right things and meant them. Wants to retire a Knick. Admitted he didn’t play well, allowing two backdoor cuts at the end. And that he took good shots and they didn’t fall.

    At the end of the day, he’s right. Our shots just didn’t fall this series. They are a great defensive team. They were bigger, younger, faster, and stronger and we couldn’t neutralize that with an outside shooting attack that worked for us all season. It was really close though. We had that game in our hand.

    That said, I don’t feel particularly good looking forward. This Pacers team is going to be a tough out for a long time to come.

  223. yellowboy90

    on another board people want to trade Tyson. Do you?

    Can you get Bledsoe and Jordan? maybe 3 way with the Blazers for Leonard the 11 pick and a trade exception which I believe gives the knicks room for S&Ts. I think I still will want Tyson back after a week or two. Also, teams that need him don’t have a Center I like..

    it’s early but…

  224. ruruland

    Owen:
    Melo finally had a good game. Whoopee….

    Great interview with JR Smith. Taking is super hard. Said all the right things and meant them. Wants to retire a Knick. Admitted he didn’t play well, allowing two backdoor cuts at the end. And that he took good shots and they didn’t fall.

    At the end of the day, he’s right. Our shots just didn’t fall this series. They are a great defensive team. They were bigger, younger, faster, and stronger and we couldn’t neutralize that with an outside shooting attack that worked for us all season. It was really close though. We had that game in our hand.

    That said, I don’t feel particularly good looking forward. This Pacers team is going to be a tough out for a long time to come.

    I wish I wasn’t so good at this.

    If you respect junior for being accountable, what is your take on Chandler finger pointing?

  225. jon abbey

    a lot to say, don’t feel like saying much of it now. that effort by my man Shump in the third was incredible, but Chandler killed us again tonight, and of course JR for the second straight playoffs was abysmal.

    can we make a case for Donnie Walsh being a Pacers employee all along? Andy Rautins over Lance Stephenson (the most angry I have ever been about a second round pick) will haunt this franchise until at least next year’s playoffs.

  226. yellowboy90

    ruruland: Watch Hibbert go through Melo’s arm prior to the peak of the play.

    look clean but George got him on the reach in. what might have been if his shoulder was right and he could go up with two hands.

  227. er

    Owen:
    Melo finally had a good game. Whoopee….

    Great interview with JR Smith. Taking it super hard. Said all the right things and meant them. Wants to retire a Knick. Admitted he didn’t play well, allowing two backdoor cuts at the end. And that he took good shots and they didn’t fall.

    At the end of the day, he’s right. Our shots just didn’t fall this series. They are a great defensive team. They were bigger, younger, faster, and stronger and we couldn’t neutralize that with an outside shooting attack that worked for us all season. It was really close though. We had that game in our hand.

    That said, I don’t feel particularly good looking forward. This Pacers team is going to be a tough out for a long time to come.

    Brian Cronin: I think I have seen about 10 times as much pre-emptive defense against Melo criticism than I have seen actual Melo criticism. Where are these comments killing Melo for tonight?

    melo actually had 3 good games but whose counting friend…..

  228. jon abbey

    and again, there is zero question in my mind that if Melo had played in his role this season like Chandler did in his, he would be ripped in the tabloids as much as Mark Sanchez. Chandler as the best Knick is laughable, not even close.

  229. Owen

    “I wish I wasn’t so good at this.”

    Huh?

    If Lebron had gone up for that dunk Hibbert would have a broken hand right now…..

    Chandler wasn’t good. But Melo was horrible. He is supposed to be the star of this team. And he showed once again he simply isn’t an elite talent. You can win a championship with Tyson as your center. You can’t win much of anything with Melo. I would trade him for one of Vogel’s daughters if I could…..

  230. bobneptune

    BigBlueAL:
    This team has the talent to compete for a title but they sure as hell dont have the coach to get them there.

    Honestly? The TALENT to compete for a title? Where? In what universe?

    Melo, while having suck fever in the playoffs actually made some progress this season. He can be the lynch pin of a top team, but the rest of the roster:

    The number 2 scoring option (JR) is consistently inconsistent and doesn’t have the maturity of an adult. This will be his 3rd consecutive playoff with a WS/48 <.000, which is quite a feat!

    The number 3 option (Felton) is a below average NBA player as shown by his lifetime WS/48 = .069 and even this year .087

    These are your 2nd and third options. Not the 2nd and 3rd options on a championship caliber team.

    Kidd, Novak and Camby will be sucking up 10 million of guaranteed cap space next season.

    The only bright spot on the roster and it will be the final gift from Donnie Walsh that will keep on giving is Shumpert. He's 95% recovered his explosiveness and developed a real shot so the sky is the limit with this guy who should be a cornerstone of the franchise moving forward once he learns the nuances of the game and harnesses his skill set. But his quick recovery from a devastating injury and and the development of a real shooting stroke virtually out of nowhere argues he is a hard worker which bodes well for his future improvement, remembering he is still only 22.

    Besides Melo and Shumpert, the rest of the roster could be flushed down the nearest loo.

    The coach is clearly not championship caliber either.

  231. Kikuchiyo

    I know y’all don’t love +/-, but you did see this, right:

    Chandler: -17

    Martin: +10

  232. Owen

    Yeah, great.

    The bottom line is that this team is going nowhere. And whether you assign the blame to Melo, purportedly our best player, or Chandler, generally though not lately our best player, doesn’t matter.

    I don’t see us beating this Pacers team. We just don’t have the guns. I don’t see us beating the Bulls next year either. This season was our best case scenario. And the Heat? We aren’t beating them either until they break up.

    After a very disappointing lesson, the thought of another 3 years of watching Melo shoot his way to mediocrity as the Big Iverson, is really really really frustrating…..

  233. Bison

    Owen: You can win a championship with Tyson as your center. You can’t win much of anything with Melo.

    Not with Melo as the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options, that’s for sure.

    Melo won’t win anything unless his team has a second scoring star. The Knicks may have had one last year, but Melo’s ego couldn’t handle it. So the potentially very strong 2nd option was pushed off the team.

  234. AnonymousODG

    John R.:
    Knicks fans- Stop getting down on the guys we’ve all exalted. This team would be nothing without Tyson Chandler: his attitude adjustment is huge. Carmelo emerged as truly and unarguably dominant this year, our bench of mercenaries and unexpected folk did pretty well.

    First, not to be a hater but I’ve been on Chandler’s ass ever since we came back down to earth after the 19-6 start to the season. Other than bullying PGs off needless switches on the perimeter, his defense was terrible for looooong stretches of the season and he never protected the rim. Chandler being voted onto the 2013 All-Defensive First Team was just an insult to humanity. So I just want to clear up this idea that I’m not been consistent with my criticisms concerning his play.

    Second, how many different players have saved our team over the season playing/sharing the 5 spot? In the beginning, it was Rasheed Wallace. Then, Kurt Thomas. Then, KMart. We played our best basketball at the end of the season going 18-7 against tough opponents who were fighting for their playoff seedings all without Chandler.

    Third, Chandler should have taken his head out of his butt after getting benched in the fourth quarter of Game 1 against the Celtics in favor of KMart. He never woke up. And now in the postgame conferences, he’s unsubtly and clumsily putting the blame on the coaching staff’s offensive game plans rather than on himself. Which is just bullsh1t.

    I’m basically done with Tyson Chandler. Until he actually is responsible for winning us a playoff game with his play, I will absolutely favor sending him off this team for some sort of package or future picks. We’re a playoff-bound team without him. We’re never getting past the Pacers with him. Nuff said.

  235. AnonymousODG

    Bison: Not with Melo as the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd options, that’s for sure.

    Melo won’t win anything unless his team has a second scoring star.The Knicks may have had one last year, but Melo’s ego couldn’t handle it.So the potentially very strong 2nd option was pushed off the team.

    Go away, dogrufus. Nobody even cares about Lin anymore.

  236. Bison

    AnonymousODG: Go away, dogrufus.Nobody even cares about Lin anymore.

    I am not dogrufus. You should note that I have never cheered for the Knicks to lose.

    But now that the team has indeed lost, I am angry. With Lin we could have blown the Pacers away, as we did last season in back-to-back games.

  237. smokinjoe

    Owen:
    Melo finally had a good game. Whoopee….

    Great interview with JR Smith. Taking it super hard. Said all the right things and meant them. Wants to retire a Knick. Admitted he didn’t play well, allowing two backdoor cuts at the end. And that he took good shots and they didn’t fall.

    At the end of the day, he’s right. Our shots just didn’t fall this series. They are a great defensive team. They were bigger, younger, faster, and stronger and we couldn’t neutralize that with an outside shooting attack that worked for us all season. It was really close though. We had that game in our hand.

    That said, I don’t feel particularly good looking forward. This Pacers team is going to be a tough out for a long time to come.

    JR doesnt get a pass soley on that Lazy ass rebound that he just ambled over to in the corner and Pacers just come up and steal it from him..only because his shots werent falling and he was feeling sorry for himself..yeah you f’d up dude..but I hate that feeling sorry for yourself attitude iN the game..goes hand in hand with complaining about EVERY call..

  238. smokinjoe

    Kikuchiyo:
    I know y’all don’t love +/-, but you did see this, right:

    Chandler: -17

    Martin: +10

    Didnt know that but watching the game, it felt about right..I actually cheered Chandlers 4th and 6th fouls cuz I knew we we get something better from Kmart

  239. er

    Bison: I am not dogrufus.You should note that I have never cheered for the Knicks to lose.

    But now that the team has indeed lost, I am angry.With Lin we could have blown the Pacers away, as we did last season in back-to-back games.

    lolz

  240. AnonymousODG

    Bison: I am not dogrufus.You should note that I have never cheered for the Knicks to lose.

    But now that the team has indeed lost, I am angry.With Lin we could have blown the Pacers away, as we did last season in back-to-back games.

    Sorry, I was legitimately confused.

    Something tells me you haven’t bothered keeping up with Lin’s play in HOU. With anything but “the-worst-he’s-ever-played” JR Smith, we could have blown out the Pacers. Hell we blew them out twice this playoff series with the worst JR.

    Seriously, of all the things to b1tch about Melo and this playoff series, you bring up Lin? Jebus H. Christ. Get. Over. It. Already.

  241. smokinjoe

    Owen:
    “I wish I wasn’t so good at this.”

    Huh?

    If Lebron had gone up for that dunk Hibbert would have a broken hand right now…..

    Chandler wasn’t good. But Melo was horrible. He is supposed to be the star of this team. And he showed once again he simply isn’t an elite talent. You can win a championship with Tyson as your center. You can’t win much of anything with Melo. I would trade him for one of Vogel’s daughters if I could…..

    Gimme a break..Chandler is a decent defender..definitely riding reputation .more than anything..but did he really have 2 points and 6 rebs this game? He has absolutely no offense unless rolling to the rim off a pnr..when he catches it..trade em while there are some fools out there who dont know how overated he is..maybe a GM whos been on vacation with tv or radio this postseason

  242. Bison

    Bison: I am not dogrufus.You should note that I have never cheered for the Knicks to lose.

    But now that the team has indeed lost, I am angry.With Lin we could have blown the Pacers away, as we did last season in back-to-back games.

    er: lolz

    I love how you are ignoring the fact that we did blow the Pacers away with ease last season, when Lin was running the show.

  243. Bison

    AnonymousODG: Sorry, I was legitimately confused.

    No problem.

    Something tells me you haven’t bothered keeping up with Lin’s play in HOU.With anything but “the-worst-he’s-ever-played” JR Smith, we could have blown out the Pacers.Hell we blew them out twice this playoff series with the worst JR.

    I watched practically all the Knicks and Rockets games this season, which is why I’ve had no time to post here. Something tells me you haven’t kept up with Lin; if you had, you would have noticed that Lin was averaging 18 points, 7 assists per 36 minutes over the last two months. As he was rarely allowed to be the PG — Harden did most of the playmaking — the 7 assists is downright remarkable.

    Seriously, of all the things to b1tch about Melo and this playoff series, you bring up Lin?Jebus H. Christ.Get. Over. It.Already.

    We could have kicked the Pacers’ butts this series if not for Melo’s and Dolan’s egos! That isn’t worth talking about?

  244. er

    Bison: er: lolz

    I love how you are ignoring the fact that we did blow the Pacers away with ease last season, when Lin was running the show.

    Is that you Landry?

  245. Bison

    er: Is that you Landry?

    I’m not sure who you mean by “Landry” (not Landry Fields, probably), but you are still ignoring the fact that we did blow the Pacers away — with total ease — last season when Lin was running the show.

  246. AnonymousODG

    Bison: No problem.

    I watched practically all the Knicks and Rockets games this season, which is why I’ve had no time to post here.Something tells me you haven’t kept up with Lin; if you had, you would have noticed that Lin was averaging 18 points, 7 assists per 36 minutes over the last two months.As he was rarely allowed to be the PG — Harden did most of the playmaking — the 7 assists is downright remarkable.

    We could have kicked the Pacers’ butts this series if not for Melo’s and Dolan’s egos!That isn’t worth talking about?

    I know exactly how well Lin was playing BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS. We also know how well JR and Melo were playing, BEFORE THE PLAYOFFS. Funny that a seemingly habitual Melo detractor like yourself would forget one of your biggest arguments against him: playoff performance.

    Lin averaged less than 7 pts on 25% shooting, less than 3.5 assists, and 3.5 turnovers per 36, DURING THE PLAYOFFS. And he got benched before taking an early exit out of the first round.

    Raymond Felton, on the other hand, averaged over 14 pts on 46.5% shooting, with 4.3 assists and only only 1.5 turnovers per 36, DURING THE PLAYOFFS. And he basically only had two bad games through two rounds.

    If we signed Lin with his awful joke of a contract, we would not have Felton. So if you’re going to criticize Melo for anything, losing Lin is not one of them. First, the tension between them was overblown by the media and/or simply a result of D’Antoni’s ineptitude. Second, even if Melo did push out Lin we should be thanking him, not blaming him.

  247. Bison

    AnonymousODG: Lin averaged less than 7 pts on 25% shooting, less than 3.5 assists, and 3.5 turnovers per 36, DURING THE PLAYOFFS.And he got benched before taking an early exit out of the first round.

    Raymond Felton, on the other hand, averaged over 14 pts on 46.5% shooting, with 4.3 assists and only only 1.5 turnovers per 36, DURING THE PLAYOFFS.And he basically only had two bad games through two rounds.

    Now I know you didn’t follow Houston much. If you did, you would have known that Lin got hurt in game 2 of the playoffs, and was still so hurt when he returned that he could barely raise his arms.

    He shouldn’t have returned at all, but he probably remembered all the ugly smears and character assassination that occurred in NY last year when he sat out the “85% healthy” flap. You probably remember that Ruruland was one of the chief assassins right here on this blog.

  248. max fisher-cohen

    The Knick offense is gimmicky. They have a lot of players who rely more on wiliness than actual ability. Kidd, Felton and Prigioni all want to pass off their drives, and most teams are willing to commit help when they penetrate or even feint at penetration. That’s because with most players that’s a smart play. Most guys don’t have the vision of Felton, Prigioni or Kidd. But then most players also are capable of scoring off the dribble, something that Felton, Prigioni and Kidd cannot do, and Vogel figured that out. Even the Celtics figured that out after 3 games. They just couldn’t score enough to take advantage of it.

    That’s why the only time the offense has looked good has been when ANthony has played transcendently, which unfortunately for NY, only happened for about 3 quarters tonight and even less in most other games.

    The funniest part to me is that we went through this exact same issue two 1/2 years ago, just before the Anthony trade. Felton started off the season shooting magically from the perimeter, and when he stopped, teams shrugged and started giving Felton space to try to score, and when Felton couldn’t take advantage, the Knick offense collapsed. What was the definition of insanity again?

  249. Bison

    AnonymousODG: If we signed Lin with his awful joke of a contract, we would not have Felton. So if you’re going to criticize Melo for anything, losing Lin is not one of themFirst, the tension between them was overblown by the media and/or simply a result of D’Antoni’s ineptitude. Second, even if Melo did push out Lin we should be thanking him, not blaming him.

    So you prefer Felton, who gets his ass kicked by the Pacers, over Lin, who torched the same team in back-to-back games. With fans like you screaming for the Knicks to make huge mistakes like that, it’s no wonder the team has been so frequently awful.

  250. AnonymousODG

    Bison: Now I know you didn’t follow Houston much.If you did, you would have known that Lin got hurt in game 2 of the playoffs, and was still so hurt when he returned that he could barely raise his arms.

    He shouldn’t have returned at all, but he probably remembered all the ugly smears and character assassination that occurred in NY last year when he sat out the “85% healthy” flap.You probably remember that Ruruland was one of the chief assassins right here on this blog.

    Oh, of course. Focusing rather on Jeremy Lin scoring 4 pts n 14% shooting, with 4 assists and 4 turnovers in 32 minutes in Game 1 and letting the OKC backcourt shower-room rape them to a 120-91 blowout improves the case you’re making for Lin so much.

    Excuse me while I laugh my way out of this conversation.

  251. AnonymousODG

    Bison: So you prefer Felton, who gets his ass kicked by the Pacers, over Lin, who torched the same team in back-to-back games.With fans like you screaming for the Knicks to make huge mistakes like that, it’s no wonder the team has been so frequently awful.

    Never go full retard. Sure, Felton’s average numbers of 11 pts, 4 assists, 1 turnover per 36 against the Pacers aren’t going to turn heads but you pretend like it was his fault we lost. Which is uproaringly hilarious in and of itself.

    But that you thought Lin was the magic bullet is divine comedy. I’ll take Felton’s “pedestrian” play against the tough Pacers in the playoffs where sh1t actually matters over someone who blew out spectacularly (both on offense and defense, tough to tell which was worse) in the first round.

    ESPECIALLY considering Felton was paid less than $3.5 million this year and Lin was being paid over $8 million.

    Ladies and gentlemen, your New York Knicks fans.

  252. Bison

    AnonymousODG: Oh, of course.Focusing rather on Jeremy Lin scoring 4 pts n 14% shooting, with 4 assists and 4 turnovers in 32 minutes in Game 1 and letting the OKC backcourt shower-room rape them to a 120-91 blowout improves the case you’re making for Lin so much.

    Anybody can have one bad game, especially if it’s the first NBA playoff game in hiis career. Lin was fine in the second game — against a healthy Westbrook mind you — before he got hurt a few minutes before the half.

    If no one can have a bad playoff game, then by your standards Harden must be a scrub, since in Game 4 he shot 4 for 12 and had 10 turnovers. Melo must also be worthless in your opinion when he shot 10 for 35 and had 7 turnovers in Game 4 against Boston.

    The fact is that Lin has proven himself a winner — in a big, big way — against the Pacers, and Felton has just had his butt kicked against the same team.

  253. AnonymousODG

    Bison: Anybody can have one bad game, especially if it’s the first NBA playoff game in hiis career.Lin was fine in the second game — against a healthy Westbrook mind you — before he got hurt a few minutes before the half.

    If no one can have a bad playoff game, then by your standards Harden must be a scrub, since in Game 4 he shot 4 for 12 and had 10 turnovers.Melo must also be worthless in your opinion when he shot 10 for 35 and had 7 turnovers in Game 4 against Boston.

    The fact is that Lin has proven himself a winner — in a big, big way — against the Pacers, and Felton has just had his butt kicked against the same team.

    A big winner against the Pacers? You seemed to be so obsessed with his performance last year. Y’know what, let’s consider his play against them this year. In two games against the Pacers this year, Lin averaged 9 pts, 3.5 assists, and 3.5 turnovers. HOU lost by an average margin of 10.

    The reverse of that is Felton playing OKC twice this year and averaging 16 pts, 5.5 assists and 2 turnovers. We lost the first game in a heartbreaker by only 1 pt but won the second game convincingly.

    So, yea. I didn’t mean to kick dirt onto the grave of this myth that Lin would have easily led us past the Pacers in the playoffs, but basically I just did.

    That this silly conversation all started with the notion that we needed a valid, proven second scoring option against the Pacers misses the most obvious point: we had a valid, proven second scoring option in JR Smith who averaged 14.5 pts a game against them this season through 4 games (2 wins, 2 losses). Unfortunately, he didn’t show up in the playoffs. And that has sh1t to do with Lin, who while I am a big fan of, does not in any way out-value what Raymond Felton just did these playoffs, let alone this series.

  254. Bison

    AnonymousODG: A big winner against the Pacers?You seemed to be so obsessed with his performance last year. Y’know what, let’s consider his play against them this year.In two games against the Pacers this year, Lin averaged 9 pts, 3.5 assists, and 3.5 turnovers.HOU lost by an average margin of 10.

    Different team, different situation for Lin. As any scientist will tell you, changing more than one variable at a time invalidates your experiment. This year, Harden was basically the PG, and Lin was relegated to the corner — unjustly in my opinion, as Lin was spectacular in the four games that Harden was out with injury (averaging 21 points, 7 assists). Houston was committed to Harden, so Lin had to sacrifice.

    If Lin were still with the Knicks, he would be playing with basically the same team as last season, against basically the same Pacers. He was spectacularly successful then, and there is no reason to believe that he wouldn’t be just as successful now.

    Face it, Lin has proven himself at leading the Knicks against the Pacers, and Felton has only shat the bed: shooting 0 for 7 for 2 points, when the team needed him the most, in an elimination game.

    That this silly conversation all started with the notion that we needed a valid, proven second scoring option against the Pacers misses the most obvious point: we had a valid, proven second scoring option in JR Smith who averaged 14.5 pts a game against them this season through 4 games (2 wins, 2 losses).Unfortunately, he didn’t show up in the playoffs.And that has sh1t to do with Lin, who while I am a big fan of, does not in any way out-value what Raymond Felton just did these playoffs, let alone this series.

    If JR doesn’t show up in the crunch, then he is not a “valid, proven” second option. The Knicks threw away a potentially great option for nothing last summer.

  255. AnonymousODG

    Bison: Different team, different situation for Lin.As any scientist will tell you, changing more than one variable at a time invalidates your experiment.This year, Harden was basically the PG, and Lin was relegated to the corner — unjustly in my opinion, as Lin was spectacular in the four games that Harden was out with injury (averaging 21 points, 7 assists).Houston was committed to Harden, so Lin had to sacrifice.

    If Lin were still with the Knicks, he would be playing with basically the same team as last season, against basically the same Pacers.He was spectacularly successful then, and there is no reason to believe that he wouldn’t be just as successful now.

    Face it, Lin has proven himself at leading the Knicks against the Pacers, and Felton has only shat the bed: shooting 0 for 7 for 2 points, when the team needed him the most, in an elimination game.

    If JR doesn’t show up in the crunch, then he is not a “valid, proven” second option.The Knicks threw away a potentially great option for nothing last summer.

    It was this year’s Pacers team and Lin shat the bed twice against this year’s Pacers backcourt, let alone what he did against OKC in the playoffs where it actually matters.

    Felton gave us 4 great performances against playoff Pacers out of 6 games (6 straight against BOS also). One of those in an elimination game: Game 5. Stop ignoring such obvious facts.

    If Lin doesn’t show up in the crunch, then he is not a “valid, proven” second option. The Knicks threw away a so far disproven playoff option because they didn’t want to waste $8 million/yr. Your entire argument relies on two months of pre-playoff basketball. By that logic, JR was easily our savior. Yet you dismiss JR for his sh1tty playoff performance but not Lin for his? Your double standard is glaring and would be insulting if you weren’t so blatantly dimwitted about it…

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