Phoenix Suns 121 – New York Knicks 98 – Game Recap

I wish I possessed the (basic) Photoshop skills to make a montage of the Scooby Doo meme – you know the one – where Shaggy goes to unmask Mike Miller and finds that, behind the polite middle manager mask, it was David Fizdale all along. That’s how depressing this game was,

Seriously, if I showed you the whole footage of the game, only removing date and sideline shots, you all would think Fiz was coaching this team. The team was disjointed, the play was lackluster, iso-time abounded, three point shots were conceded and some rotations didn’t make sense. It was all extremely disappointing.

Honestly I don’t even know what to say about the game apart from a few thoughts, but I’ll make amend with a section dedicated to numbers and half-season grades of our crucial (?) players.

– First things first: everything – everything – goes to shit if Payton doesn’t give a damn on defense. Guess what? It’s several games that Elfrid just looks totally uninterested on that side of the ball. Now, I guess being a new dad sucks a lot of energy out of you, but why does that energy be only on the not fun side of the court? Or can it be that Payton has always been a very overrated defender and these days it’s just more apparent than before (the latter without a doubt)? Anyway, when your primary point of attack defender just becomes a turnstile everything else becomes useless. I don’t really know what can be done about it (Frank, while being a much more enthusiastic defender, ended up committing five fouls in 25 minutes, which is definitely not ideal), but if Payton can’t be counted on being held accountable, I guess that should be bench or buyout time after the deadline.

– Mook’s back! Yay! (Said nobody). I’m frankly appalled at every notion that Mook shouldn’t be traded to ensure continuity. So far he’s been regarded as a valuable mentor for a team that currently sits at 11-31 and for a young point guard (?) who’s maybe improving but stands at .028 WS/48 and .494 TS%. That’s lazy thinking, not love for continuity. There’s nothing to be salvaged here in that sense, honestly. I get holding onto him until the deadline and/or until a good offer comes around, but for god’s sake, get him out of here. When the offense doesn’t click, he only jams it further, and he can’t cover for glaring defensive issues from other players. Coincidentally, he had the lowest plus/minus of every player in the game at a very round -20.

– Hey, good news! Mitch finally played more than 30 minutes. 30 minutes and 7 seconds, to be precise. And he didn’t even get into foul trouble (only two for the night). That said, while the numbers were kinda good (12 points, 8 boards, 3 steals, 2 blocks, 5/7 from the field – two missed dunks! – and 2/3 from the line) Mitch is looking very uninspired and unfocused. It’s hard to understand if this should fall on Miller’s shoulders, because it looked like he found a way to untap his potential after all, but it’s a worrying trend. I’m more than willing to write it up to the Drummond trade rumors, but then again being a professional in the NBA means also not getting swayed by whatever it is that floats around your name. Maybe it’s a big deal to ask from a 21 year old, but that’s the harsh destiny of the closest thing to a budding superstar this team had since big ol’ Pat.

– Miller’s record for his first 20 games is 7-13, “good” for a .350 winning percentage that would put the Knicks at 29-53 over the course of a full season, which is exactly what you should try to avoid with a team full of mercs. I think Miller should be given the chance to work with a better roster, because honestly some of his choices stink of Pills orders to make them look good (lineups with Randle at the 5 and Portis at the 4 are an insult to creation itself), but it has to come on the heels of a new FO; if a new FO comes around, though, it’s unlikely Miller will stick around. Take your time to bid farewell to Miller, you have three months to do that.

And now your 2019/20 Knicks half-season report! (PPG/RPG/APG; TS%, WS/48; other notable stats if any)

– Julius Randle (19/9.1/3.3;   .532, .051;  .294 3P%): after an abysmal start for the season, Julius’ numbers and impact all went through a heavy detox program courtesy of Mike Miller. The result is that now his numbers look a bit better, but considering we needed him to be a viable three point shooter to unlock some interesting feature in our offense (mainly his fit with Mitch) and that his defense is exactly how advertised, which means Amar’e bad, the Randle experiment for now goes down as a failure. Grade: C-. In a nutshell: Fumblebee.

– Marcus Morris (19/5.5/1.5;  .584, .105;  .467 3P%): as Brain would say, how ironic that the best free agent acquisition of the offseason was the mulligan given to us after Bullock failed his medical? Honestly there’s not much to dislike about Mook’s production this season; the same can’t be said about his proclivity to halt the ball-sharing activities, but I guess he’s been given the green light to hoist it up. Enough said about the need to trade him. Grade: B-. In a nutshell: (Hope he’s) gone with the wind.

– RJ Barrett (14.1/5.2/2.5; .470, -0.026; 0.6 DWS, 93 ORtg): rough first season for the rookie, who also rolled his ankle badly tonight and will probably be out for a while. His demeanor, rebounding numbers and NBA-ready body are source for hope, as is his trending up FT% (still at 60% for the season); everything else, especially offense-related, is a mess. My 5 dollars are on RJ becoming a good not great player, which isn’t that bad after all. Grade: C+ (for a rookie). In a nutshell: The one who stayed while Ja got away.

– Mitchell Robinson (9.9/6.6/0.5; .710, .212; 1.7 BPG, 139 ORtg, 3.4 FPG): not quite the leap we expected, but still a blessing for aching souls and desperate eyes alike everytime he’s on the court. Still averaging a shame-worthy 22.6 MPG because everyone involved in his management on this team is a fucking moron, he should be the undisputed building block of this franchise but no, let’s see in how many more ways Portis can suck at this thing called basuketuboru. League-best in TS% and ORtg. Pass him the ball under or over the rim and let him go to work! Grade: B+. In a nutshell: Teenage wasteland.

– Frank Ntilikina (6.1/2.2/3.2; .494, .028; 2.4 STL%, 1.6 BLK%): sporting for the first time a positive WS/48 and improved in both steals and blocks percentage, still light years away from being good. Two dunks in traffic and an attempted posterization of KP though already render this season a roaring success. He’s also dispatched every DSJ attempt at usurping his place, but that’s because DSJ sucks badly. Grade: C——– verging on D–. In a nutshell: French milquetoast.

– Kevin Knox (7.6/3.2/1.1; .492, .023; .336 3P%): I don’t know what’s there to say about Knox that could even pass for a backhanded compliment. Oh okay, let’s try with this: he’s playing out of position. I would like to see him man the PF spot for 15 MPG consistently as to really evalue what we have in him. If we keep on playing him at SF we’ll never develop the few things he could potentially do well while exposing him to all sorts of embarrassment on defense. I see no reason in that. This is what happens when you sign 4 PFs in the offseason. Grade: D+. In a nutshell: youth is wasted on the young.

– Everyone else: they’re all Afflalo to me.

The real good news, though, is that I’m almost over with the horrible food intoxication I got between Tuesday and Wednesday (I got to eat a whole sandwich today!), so if my stomach can do it, then we all can do it!

See you after the Sixers game.

 

Liked it? Take a second to support Farfa on Patreon!

Farfa

Just an Italian basketball fan with an insane passion for all things Knicks (and yes, linguine Alfredo is not a real Italian dish).

115 thoughts to “Phoenix Suns 121 – New York Knicks 98 – Game Recap”

  1. Ricky Rubio is also a new dad and he seemed to have plenty of energy.

    Said it on two other threads but that was another level of losing.

  2. For the third worst team in the league, I can’t help but think we should have a lot more Fs.

    Knox: F, he’s just bad

    RJ: F, even for a rookie his numbers are terrible. REB not impressive. Worse passer than advertised.

    Randle: F, unplayable w/ his below avg TS% and TOs

    Mitch: D, fouls, out of position, needs lobs on offense or useless. But he’s REALLY good at lobs

    Frank and Morris are the only bright spots play-wise. But of course we had to mess Morris up and Frank still sucks overall.

  3. This has become my nightmare season :
    Knicks suck again and are basically unwatchable

    Lakers are playing like the best team in the league

    What could be better than that?

    This team is virtually devoid of any legitimate above average NBA talent which is quite a statement considering how long it’s been going on for and the draft picks they’ve had or should have had. Tuning in to college basketball more and more – Go Aztecs

  4. Nice recap!

    Maybe Payton’s hammy is still bothering him when he tries to move horizontally, etc. on D. Or, maybe he’s just lazy. Either way, he’s just a decent, at best, backup forced to start b/c he’s the best the Knicks have at PG.

    Frank’s probably still got groin issues, and I’m not using that as an excuse for him. It’s another reason to be mighty suspicious that he’ll pan out as a good rotation player, esp. as a one. IIRC, he’s had this injury before.

    Many of us here have been calling for Knox to play the four for quite some time, for him to have any chance to be a useful rotation player. But the folks running the team are idiots, so…

  5. What bugs me the most is that the young guys who need to work on their games are not good enough to do so in NBA games without embarrassing themselves or the team. I say send them all to the G-League and play them 40mpg. Have Mitch work on some moves, have Frank work on driving and shooting, let Knox work on, well, being good at anything, let Trier get back to what he does best. Let them win the G-League title and play the vet FA’s and RJ and Dotson (they don’t need G-League time because they are pretty much what they are except for consistency) lose their way to a top-5 pick and try to trade any of the vets for a 2099 top-59 protected 2nd rounder. Maybe run Wooten and Kaz out there for a few games. Something…anything!

  6. For the third worst team in the league, I can’t help but think we should have a lot more Fs.

    Hey! The trade deadline is not here yet. Let’s not waste our chances in case Vlade reads KB.

  7. The only good thing about these recent embarrassing losses is that it might just make Mills and Perry finally realize this is a garbage team that should be tanking. There’s no possible reason to try to keep any veterans if the team’s ceiling with them is 3rd worst record in the NBA. It will be impossible to outtank the Warriors but the Hawks are still trying to win and making trades to improve their roster.

  8. farfa i, oddly, stupidly, didn’t realize food intoxication meant food poisoning. i got food poisoning on wednesday and just now went at a bowl of soup like i was hubert davis defending in transition. fingers crossed.

  9. The team is all ready losing its way to a top 5 pick.

    Its rough but not unexpected that we’re this bad. If Miller had coached the team from the get go, we probably have a few more wins. We will probably beat our win total from last year.

    Improvement isn’t always incremental and it doesn’t always go forward. I think the team/organization is close to a breakthrough but when/where that will happen, I don’t know. The long term outlook, if managed properly, is not bad. It just seems so bad right now cause they brought in all these average vets and the team is below average. But once a team starts losing, decent players become average and average players become bad.

    That’s my take. We have some young players who could be good long term. We have our picks plus a few others. Management needs to trade vets for more picks. We need as many chances in the draft as possible. We need lottery picks, late first round picks, second round picks. We need as many chances as possible to stumble upon a great player.

    I don’t think people realize how much our past management pre-Phil set us back. And this is not a Phil endorsement at all. But not having draft picks for most seasons for the past 2 decades and trading those young players we did have, hurt us so much. Phil at least stopped that madness of trading picks but didn’t tear it all down from the get go and tried to half ass it. So it feels like we’ve been in a rebuild for longer than we actually have. Its really only year 2 of a real rebuild and even then our current management still tried to do the competitive thing with vets. But at least they didn’t do long term contracts.

    The most important goal, IMO, should be getting a legit point guard. The second goal should be getting some good shooters (from 3). I think our organization is still stuck in this recreating the glory days of the 90’s idea (some real dawgs if you will) when the game has changed. RJ should be surrounded with shooters to use his full…

  10. @7
    Totally agree, but Pills are probably in self preservation mode. They build this team, signing of bunch of vets in the offseason, thus they might continue to try to squeeze as many wins out of it as possible.

    I may start watching the Grizz. They’re on the other side of TN from me, but I wonder what it is like to watch a young team with upside?

  11. farfa i, oddly, stupidly, didn’t realize food intoxication meant food poisoning.

    That’s because I, oddly, stupidly, didn’t remember that food poisoning is the correct wording :D

  12. Farfa, I’m glad you are getting healthy. Thanks for the recap. I 100% agree, they looked just like Fizdale’s Knick’s last night, even down to the long lasting Randle Isos.

  13. Project “Sign Mediocre Vets And Fake Contend For An Eighth Seed To Lure Superstar Free Agents” has failed. It was a moronic plan from the jump and it doesn’t look any better after half a season. The young players haven’t been super encouraging and there doesn’t seem to be any coherent plan to move forward in a positive direction or any competent voices in the front office.

    I’m gonna go huff some paint and dream of an alternate timeline where Guitar Jimmy sells the team to Warren Buffett, who lures Masai Uijiri to MSG. Now where’s that paint can.

  14. @10

    I’m already on the Grizzlies bandwagon, even if it hurts a little every time I remember we got unlucky in the lottery and ended up not being able to draft Ja.

    But that’s the life of a Knicks fan, watching players we didn’t tank enough to get, and then on the one year they did tank drafting 3rd in a draft with 2 guys clearly above the rest. I’m still happy enough with Barrett, I still find things to be encouraged about him, but I don’t expect much from anyone outside him and Mitch. The Knox pick just hurts so much because so many players from that draft are already becoming stars.

  15. It was a 2 person draft. Ja and RJ. Zion has yet to play a game. He’s going to be the next Greg Oden. Bookmark this post. Dude has injury bust written all over him. Can you imagine how pissed we’d be right now if we got Zion and he hadn’t played a single game yet?

  16. Can you imagine how pissed we’d be right now if we got Zion and he hadn’t played a single game yet?

    I wouldn’t be happy about the injury, but I’d be thrilled if the Knicks had Zion right now. You think the Pelicans would trade Zion for Barrett right now? It’d take less than a millisecond to say no. And that’s not even meant as a knock on Barrett.

  17. The only good thing about these recent embarrassing losses is that it might just make Mills and Perry finally realize this is a garbage team that should be tanking. There’s no possible reason to try to keep any veterans if the team’s ceiling with them is 3rd worst record in the NBA. It will be impossible to outtank the Warriors but the Hawks are still trying to win and making trades to improve their roster.

    This team is just so depressing. Why Dolan is letting Pills continue to make decisions when their decisions are all about keeping their jobs is beyond me, but whatever his reasoning, it sucks.

  18. Watching that very depressing performance last night, I was thinking about which franchises I wouldn’t trade places with right now. (The list of franchises I would trade places with is WAY longer)

    All I can come up with is Charlotte and Detroit. I was going to add Washington and Cleveland, but they both have a decent # of promising young players with upside (Hachimura, Brown, Sexton, Garland)

    Maybe Chicago, who has all their equity tied up in Zach LaVine?

    Of course, none of those teams are owned by James Dolan, so maybe the answer is I’d take any team but ours.

  19. This team is just so depressing. Why Dolan is letting Pills continue to make decisions when their decisions are all about keeping their jobs is beyond me, but whatever his reasoning, it sucks.

    maybe he’s not that bright

  20. Watching that very depressing performance last night, I was thinking about which franchises I wouldn’t trade places with right now. (The list of franchises I would trade places with is WAY longer)

    If the Knicks had more assets, I could see the argument of “Even a terrible front office couldn’t fuck this up,” but since it’s really just Barrett and Mitch, I honestly would take any team over the Knicks at this point, because even godawful asset situations can be turned around fairly quickly with a good front office (like the Nets, who started with, like, no picks and no good players), since cap space is an asset in and of itself. And any front office has to be better than the Knicks.

    Well, maybe not Sacramento.

    Terrible front offices just sap all of the energy out a team and the Knicks have had mostly terrible front offices every year since Dolan took over.

    Even Donnie Walsh, who was better than most of these guys, wasn’t that good. Their one sort of competent guy was Grunwald, and Mills convinced Dolan to run him out of town after Dolan first forced the Bargnani trade on him. And shockingly, their only good seasons were when Grunwald was in charge. And Grunwald wasn’t even that good! He was just mediocre and that was a huge step up and the difference was clear immediately.

  21. HEY GUYS, did anyone know that our top 4 earners were signed this past offseason, and are all PF’s? Randle (18m x 2yrs), Morris (15Mx1yr), Portis (15mx1 yr), and Gibson (9Mx1 yr), are all our top earners!! Isn’t that great?

    Did you know that the only players to crack 33% from 3 are Morris, Portis, and Knox? They’re not even guards! Trier played less than 300 minutes but would make this list, but wtf we dont need young shooters right!

    Did you know that out of the top five players in minutes played only 2 were drafted by us, Barrett and Mitch (the latter is playing LESS lately!)

    Did you know that out of the top five players in minutes played, 3 are power forwards, and one is a center (HOLY SHT WTF). Out of our top ten in minutes played, only 3 are guards! (RJ is a small forward to me because thats what he should be go to hell man)

    BUT NO LETS KEEP OUR FRONT OFFICE INTACT UNTIL WE GET MASAI #LOLKNICKSIMNOTCOMINGIMGETTINGARAISEMAN

    If we don’t trade a PF for a first round pick I’m gonna do the same shit ive been doing every year i say something like that

  22. The New York Knicks have no interest in trading for Andre Drummond, according to a source that spoke with Marc Berman of the New York Post.

    Drummond can become a free agent this offseason.

    While the Knicks believe in the potential of Mitchell Robinson, it wouldn’t preclude them from pursuing Drummond in free agency.

    The quote above is from RealGM.

  23. So, who would Andre Drummond like as a sidekick?
    :-) ?

    Wait, I’ve got it….Reggie Jackson! Solves the PG problem, right, Pills?

  24. Here’s how depressing the team is right now, summed up by the most Pollyanna Knicks blogger of them all, Jonathan Macri, when I tweeted at him about how much damage Mills and Perry can still do in a futile attempt to save their jobs:

    And in case anyone was wondering, THIS is Knick fan hell: praying that James Dolan is the responsible party within the Garden who will prevent evildoers from executing their sinister plot.

  25. I would add that this smarter than what we did with Carmelo, where we traded the farm for him just before he was due to be a free agent.

  26. That Berman article is clearly him carrying water for Mills’ plan to sign Drummond in the offseason. What an idiot our POBO is.

  27. If they sign Drummond and pair him with Randle, they could be in the mix for the 8th seed in 2012 as soon as next season!

  28. While that is obviously what the Berman article is all about, you have to have a little faith that Dolan will just fire them. I mean, “We can sign Andre Drummond and add him to our terrible team!” is the sales pitch of a madman and even Dolan has to see that, right? Right?

  29. I’m starting to think no one really wants Morris, and especially doesn’t want Randle or Portis. In the end, it might be a very quiet trade deadline for us.

    And that’s ok. As bad as our picks were In the past, I’m fine trying to coach them up for a few more years while adding as many drafted players as we can to the mix.

    As a fan, I’ve got my eye on 2024!

  30. The thing is, if the best offer for Morris is a second rounder, just take the second rounder! Whatever the best value you can get out of Morris. He needs to be traded. It’s the bare minimum of what a competent front office would do. If you want to argue they shouldn’t trade him for a non-expiring to get a late first, then fine, trade him for multiple seconds. If no one is willing to part with multiple seconds, take one second. There is no way that there is zero interest in Morris.

    The others, sure, I could see no one wanting to take Portis, Payton or Ellington period.

    Randle is tricky. Since he’s signed longer term, I don’t mind holding on to him and trying to get something better for him later. I’d prefer to see him dealt, too, but only for a good return. Morris, though, should be dealt for whatever they can get (outside of taking on a bad longterm contract for a bad pick).

  31. long time viewer…first time poster…

    What will be the tipping point for Dolan to finally ax the two of them (or at least Mills).. a 10 game losing streak? losing 14 of our next 16, etc., if that doesn’t do it…is it possible these incompetents survive another off season and screw up the future even more with terrible picks and signings (perhaps they are selling him on the magical abilities of Dave Blatt that won’t be fully realized for another few years)?

  32. Hiring Drummond as a free agent is better than trading for him, but it is the story of our current management. They get reasonable deals on players instead of trading away picks, but we don’t understand why they want the players they do.

  33. While that is obviously what the Berman article is all about, you have to have a little faith that Dolan will just fire them. I mean, “We can sign Andre Drummond and add him to our terrible team!” is the sales pitch of a madman and even Dolan has to see that, right? Right?

    I’m going to stay optimistic and note that, other than in a “if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice” sense, Dolan hasn’t let Pills make any basketball decisions since Fizdale was fired (other than David Blatt, which really isn’t a decision).

    I detest Julius Randle and Marcus Morris on the floor together and watching them together is an aesthetic insult to basketball. There’s not more there than just a rant, but yeah, obviously they should trade and not resign Morris.

  34. What will be the tipping point for Dolan to finally ax the two of them (or at least Mills).. a 10 game losing streak? losing 14 of our next 16, etc., if that doesn’t do it…is it possible these incompetents survive another off season and screw up the future even more with terrible picks and signings (perhaps they are selling him on the magical abilities of Dave Blatt that won’t be fully realized for another few years)?

    I don’t think there is a tipping point, sadly. There’s really no material difference between 11-31 and, say, I dunno, 14-51. Whatever decision Dolan is going to make about Mills and Perry has likely already been made. And since we haven’t heard any “Mills is going to be fired” buzz in quite some time, I think the most likely scenario is that he’s not firing them.

  35. (perhaps they are selling him on the magical abilities of Dave Blatt that won’t be fully realized for another few years)?

    Incredibly, this is one of the great snake oil pitches still around in modern sports. Just sign a bunch of guys who won’t be “fully developed” for five or six years and just… wait. Collect a paycheck and wait. If they’re slow to develop, blame the coaches. If they’re wildly inconsistent, blame their work ethic. If they get injured, blame the injuries.

    The fast path to getting fired is signing aging win-now players and failing.

    James Dolan is worth $1.5B according to the internet. He could hire McKinsey to come in and evaluate his management structure and performance. He could hire any of the Big 4 analyze where he has gone wrong for the last twenty years. Hell, he could throw cash at a program like Yale’s PhD in Marketing to figure his bullshit out. Yet here we are, doing the wrong shit over and over and over, despite a bunch of nobodies (plus ptmilo) on the internet pillorying his decisions and being proven right over and over and over.

    It’s fucking madness. If he had inherited a small-market team the NBA would have stripped it from him years ago. But since it’s MSG, he prints money.

  36. But since it’s MSG, he prints money.

    I don’t disagree with your post, but want to use this last sentence to note that, actually, Knicks and Rangers attendance is down this year. There are roughly 1,000 empty seats a night for both, and a lot of the empties are in the pricey sections. Street value for Knicks tickets on StubHub is down a lot. It’s especially noticeable at Rangers games. What that means exactly in DolanLand is unclear, most likely he attributes the Knick decline to not having any stars, so let’s go get a star.

  37. He could hire McKinsey to come in and evaluate his management structure and performance. He could hire any of the Big 4 analyze where he has gone wrong for the last twenty years. Hell, he could throw cash at a program like Yale’s PhD in Marketing to figure his bullshit out.

    He could simply hire me. Running a good NBA team isn’t that difficult. (building a title winner if you aren’t lucky enough to draft a top 5 guy is hard)

  38. If the attendance is down, then TV ratings are probably down, which means advertising revenues are down, which is real money. I am not surprised the Knicks aren’t selling out, but I am surprised if ticket sales are worse than last year. We are actually a little better than last year (although some nights it is hard to tell)

  39. it is madness..Dolan is on the mount rushmore of legendary clueless wealthy widely despised (even by non fans of the team) sports team owners with the likes of Snyder in DC, the Bidwells of AZ Cardinals fame, Donald Sterling, Peter Angelos and there is no end in sight….but the rub is that the Rangers appear to be in a successful rebuild in spite of his ownership given he hired some marginally competent FO personnel…it all comes back to Mr. Mills….

    btw…while I was typing this I googled worst team owners to see if I forgot one of the real bad ones and founds this article from a few yrs back…he was #3…

    https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-lists/the-15-worst-owners-in-sports-144598/

  40. Dolan actually hired McKinsey to fix the Knicks in 2013 and 2005.

    Yeah, and rumor is that he actually stuck with one of the things that McKinsey told him back in 2013, which was stop trading first round picks (he brought them in, sadly, after already trading a pick for Bargs and after firing his one competent GM, Grunwald).

  41. I just don’t think Dolan cares at all. I think after Phil, when he came out and said he was handing over the basketball operations and wouldn’t interfere anymore, he was just done with it. As long as it is just the typical brand of incompetency and bad basketball we’re all used to, he won’t care. Since Phil got fired MSG has been relatively drama free, for Knicks standards at least, so he just won’t move to do anything as long as the money keeps flowing, and we all know it’s going to flow no matter the product on the court.

    I really don’t know what to think, if he was more involved in basketball decisions it would be a disaster like it’s always been before, but this brand of management where they simply take no risks at all and opt to do nothing everytime they have a choice is still terrible. I’m glad they’re not doing stupid shit like trading for Drummond or giving up first rounders for bad players, but it’s so obviously not going to result in any relevant success that it feels more hopeless than infuriating, like a never ending Baudelarian spleen instead of rage.

  42. I’m glad they’re not doing stupid shit like trading for Drummond or giving up first rounders for bad players, but it’s so obviously not going to result in any relevant success that it feels more hopeless than infuriating, like a never ending Baudelarian spleen instead of rage.

    It seriously feels like the Isiah years, which is insane, since they have all of their picks plus the Dallas picks plus the Charlotte second rounders! Plus Barrett and Mitch. If this was almost any other franchise, I’d say, “Okay, there’s reason for hope here.” But with this management, not so much.

  43. I was wondering the other day when you all were moaning about just missing out on the #2 pick if we actually would have just stuck with RJ even if we had a chance at Ja. Feels like something we would have done.

  44. I was wondering the other day when you all were moaning about just missing out on the #2 pick if we actually would have just stuck with RJ even if we had a chance at Ja. Feels like something we would have done.

    From before the lottery, it sounded like they weren’t even all that interested in Barrett, he was just so obviously the guy at #3 that they sort of “had” to take him. So no, I think they were definitely taking Ja if they were #2.

  45. not sure what i would do without kyrie irving bringing this kind of joy to my life:

    Brooklyn Nets guard Kyrie Irving said he has spoken to teammates about comments in which he listed the players he saw as being a part of the team’s future.

    “I reached out to make sure nothing was taken out of context — making sure that the guys knew exactly what I meant,” Irving said on Friday after practice. “And that is the only thing that matters. Everyone can say, ‘If I was in this position, I would’ve said this, I would’ve done this.’ They have have no idea because they’ve never been at this level, so how could you even comment on it?”

    i’m pretty sure everyone knows exactly what he means…

  46. zero inside info that was just from the stories. tho maybe one day I’ll spill about the time i met dolan.

  47. maybe one day I’ll spill about the time i met dolan.

    pray tell…was there any platonic seduction taking place…

  48. sad sad day…just read cari champion is leaving the 9am p.s.t. sportscenter show…damn, now i got one less reason to wake up and get going in the mornings…

  49. The Knicks could cheat like the Houston Astros and still be horrible.

    Except the punishment would be keeping Pills another year instead of a suspension

  50. Great ‘cap Farfa. I missed the game, but it sounds like I missed literally nothing at all.

    Anyway, not much left to say. If we actually don’t trade Morris (and any other mercenary we can get anything for) it’ll be pretty difficult to stay as invested in the future of this team.

    Then again, it’s already tough to get invested in the draft because we can talk all day about stats, tape, intriguing second rounders, etc. but these guys are just gonna take someone who impresses them in 3-on-3.

    The ship be sinking!

  51. People talk about the Isiah years as though they are a step below anything since, but here are the seasons (some partial) during which Isiah was with the Knicks:

    03/04 (starting December 22): 29-35
    04/05: 33-49
    05/06: 23-59
    06/07: 33-49
    07/08 (through April 2): 20-55

    Overall: 385 games, 138-247, .356 win %

    And here’s the Knicks’ last 385 games:

    14/15 (last 15 games): 3-12
    15/16: 32-50
    16/17: 31-51
    17/18: 29-53
    18/19: 17-65
    19/20: 11-31

    Overall: 385 games, 123-262, .319 win %

    And remember, this only includes the last 15 games of the accidentatank into KP season.

    So this is the worst run by a wide margin of any Knicks team in the Dolan era. How that affects Dolan’s outlook is an interesting question. One of his favorite strategies for dodging culpability is to fire people, but at the same time, he must understand by now, having hired and fired so many executives, that any new front office is going to expect at least a couple seasons of tinkering before shifting towards building a competitive team. So a new hire means Dolan can’t push for short term success like he can with his current team, and with KD coming back to Brooklyn next season, my guess is he’ll be extra motivated to go for short term success.

  52. People hate Isiah because he burned every other draft pick for the Knicks for forever to assemble the highest paid team in the league to play like shit

    Might have been nice to have LaMarcus Aldridge and Joakim Noah instead of Eddy Curry

    Or Gordon Hayward instead of Marbury eating vaseline

  53. So this is the worst run by a wide margin of any Knicks team in the Dolan era.

    But the only time they’ve actively tried to tank has been after the Isiah years, which, in turn, makes the Isiah years seem even more depressing, no? All that losing and not even any draft picks to show for it, because they kept trying to win even when the team was terrible. Not to mention, of course, the #2 and #8 picks during that period both going to other teams instead of the Knicks.

    Oh man, just thinking of the past reminded me of all the drafts the Knicks had, like, the #8, 9 or 10 picks.

    This franchise is so fucking dumb.

  54. I am #ActuallyWatchingTheGames and Luka is having a completely nutso half despite his trusty floor spacer missing his 10th straight game with an unspecified knee injury

  55. The thing that’s dumb about dallas giving all that cash to kristaps is they have Maxi Kleber making like 8 million

  56. I did the Serious Eats recipe, subbed honey for the rice syrup and didn’t have time to go to the huge (like fucking huge) Asian market down the road for red Thai pepper so I went with a jalapeno, which I minced small enough that you couldn’t tell it was there from looks alone. It was the perfect level of spice, too. We could probably do one red chili but not two without having milk on the side. You really spaced the floor.

  57. @62

    Yeah, they didn’t tank because they traded their picks, but Isiah was very good (or lucky) with the picks he didn’t trade… Wilson Chandler, Nate Robinson, Trevor Ariza, David Lee. You could argue Isiah made out better in the draft as well. The real painful part of that era was the bad contracts, but even a lot of those were more from the Layden era. Jerome James and Eddy Curry though were pretty darn awful signings.

    I think though another thing is people don’t realize that the context is different… like, teams can’t give 6 or 7 year contracts anymore. Sitting massively over the cap year over year is no longer a financially viable strategy, and the loopholes that made it easy to maintain such a high payroll have largely been closed.

    So many of the dumb things the KNicks used to do back in the 2000s simply aren’t possible or would be far more stupid in the context of the rules today. I think if you compare the behavior of this franchise over the last 5 years or so relative to the league they’d be about as backwards as the Knicks were relative to the league under Isiah. Trading draft picks for 2nd rate stars has just evolved into trading young players for cap room and then using that cap room to sign 2nd rate stars or 1 year contracts.

  58. Yeah, they didn’t tank because they traded their picks, but Isiah was very good (or lucky) with the picks he didn’t trade… Wilson Chandler, Nate Robinson, Trevor Ariza, David Lee. You could argue Isiah made out better in the draft as well. The real painful part of that era was the bad contracts, but even a lot of those were more from the Layden era. Jerome James and Eddy Curry though were pretty darn awful signings.

    Two unprotected first round picks for Eddy Curry (we won’t even get into Trevor Ariza for Steve Francis). I mean, how can anything from the recent regime even compare?

    Don’t get me wrong, Phil was terrible and Mills and Perry are bad, too, but Isiah was worse, relative to the league, than these guys. Mills and Perry at least briefly had a vision. They quickly dropped it, but they had a normal NBA front office vision for a season. Isiah never had one.

    To be fair, though, neither did Scott Layden and I think it’s totally fair to note that people don’t give Layden enough crap for being just as delusional in his team planning (and Marcus Camby plus the #7 pick for McDyess is at least in the same basic vicinity of the Eddy Curry deal).

    Tanking or not, NBA teams have done rebuilds for decades. It’s just completely logical, in a league that rewards the bad teams with higher draft picks, to tear down veteran teams that are just good enough to not get high draft picks. And Layden and Isiah just didn’t get it.

  59. Here’s how insane Layden was.

    Look at the 2002-03 Knicks. Here was their rotation (everyone who averaged over 20 minutes a game):

    32-year-old Latrell Sprewell
    31-year-old Allan Houston
    30-year-old Kurt Thomas
    30-year-old Howard Eisley
    32-year-old Clarence Weatherspoon
    29-year-old Othella Harrington
    32-year-old Charlie Ward
    29-year-old Shandon Anderson

    That team of incredibly mediocre (outside of Kurt Thomas and Allan Houston) players, who were almost entirely 30 year olds, won 37 games and made sure that, in one of the greatest drafts in NBA history, that the Knicks would be drafting 9th.

    How big of an asshole do you have to be to think, “Can’t break this team up!”?

    Or rather, “That team was just Antonio McDyess away from playoff success!”?

    Think about it. Layden traded the #7 pick and Marcus Camby just to add 28-year-old Antonio McDyess to that team, but then McDyess got hurt. Now, would having McDyess at the 4 instead of Harringtion and Weatherspoon be the difference between winning 37 games and winning 42? Sure, but (and here’s the big question that has plagued the Knicks for decades now) WHY WOULD THAT BE THE GOAL?! Why was Layden trying to put together a veteran team that, if everything broke juuuuuuust right, might compete for the #6 seed?

  60. Also the #7 pick turned into Nene. We gave up Camby and Nene for Antonio McDyess

    There is a 99.9% certainty than the Knicks take Wilcox with that pick if they keep it. So even the “What If?” scenarios with the Knicks are depressing as fuck.

  61. @70

    And now looking in retrospect, the most annoying thing is that literally none of those players stayed on the Knicks past the 04-05 season… Spree got traded right after the season, Houston retired after 04-05, Eisley got traded midseason in 2004 (together with Ward and McDyess), Anderson was waived in 2004, Weatherspoon was dumped in 2004 to the Rockets and Harrington went to the Bulls in the Jamal Crawford trade. Kurt Thomas was the one that lasted the longest, until 2005, when he was finally traded too in the Nate Robinson + QRich trade.

    So the Knicks kept a garbage team of veterans for no reason at all, just to completely blow it up over the course of the next season when Isiah came on board while making more idiotic trades in the process. As much as I hate Mills and Perry right now, nothing they have done can touch this level of absolute awfulness.

  62. So after Mills/Perry finally decide to tank the season in the next week or so and get worse instead of trying to get better, which terrible veterans or recycled draft busts are we going to put into our cap space next year because no one any good wants to come to a very young rebuilding team that sucks without being overpaid.

    At least our young players are SO young they haven’t started thinking about where they might want to play next. That’s another year or two away unless things start turning around soon.

  63. @70

    It was idiotic in execution, but not necessarily wrong in strategy. If you can accumulate veteran players with a few good years left in the tank “on attractive contracts”, you can sometimes combine them or throw in a pick and get a young disgruntled star or very good prospect. You can’t do it if you overpay them or they have nothing left in the tank.

    It’s the same thing with picks.

    There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with trading picks. There’s something wrong with trading top picks that are not adequately protected, etc.. for older players that aren’t any good.

    We should not being looking at all the Knicks failures over the years and learning the wrong lessons.

    We should be hiring people that understand basketball, that value players and their skills correctly, that fit players together coherently, that understand that very good/great players want to play on good teams, and that are willing to use a combination of picks, free agency, renting cap space, and trades to slowly move up the food chain. It’s not the strategy that matters as much as the execution and seeing where the value is at any given point in time, but the optimal strategy is to not to be closed minded and think only one way works.

  64. I don’t think Pills are going to do anything to accelerate the tank. Or trade Morris. Or do anything at all. I think Dolan has lost faith in them, all decisions now run through him and he doesn’t have any faith in his own basketball choices either so they’ll do nothing. The funny thing is they might not even get fired! Pills will submit a plan for the offseason, and if Dolan thinks that’s just as likely to work as a search for a new FO then that’s what he’ll go with.

    Isn’t Masai’s contract up in 2021? It’s entirely possible that Dolan just punts next year and waits. Next year’s team could very easily be exactly the same as this year’s, plus whoever we draft. That’ll suck, but honestly it could be one of the most positive possible scenarios, all things Dolan considered.

  65. Next year’s team could very easily be exactly the same as this year’s, plus whoever we draft. That’ll suck, but honestly it could be one of the most positive possible scenarios, all things Dolan considered.

    This is very true. And several years of doing nothing special but drafting new players and letting our young players get better might actually eventually result in a decent team. It’s just aggravatingly slow.

  66. This is very true. And several years of doing nothing special but drafting new players and letting our young players get better might actually eventually result in a decent team. It’s just aggravatingly slow.

    The problems with this approach:

    1) If you don’t trade veterans who give you marginal wins, your picks will look more like Ntilikina and Knox than, say, Fox and WCJ.

    2) If you don’t acquire surplus picks, this is going to be an incredibly slow process and you’ll probably have to make decisions on rookie-extensions before you’re a good team. That’s not good, because your cap will be clogged up despite having a bad/mediocre team e.g. Minnesota. The only way out of this is by resetting the clock with something like the Porzingis trade, but that’s going to be a painful choice if you wind up with a player(s) better than Porzingis.

    We’re not asking for strokes of genius here! Trade the guys who nobody can even pretend will be on the next good Knicks team. Is that really so hard? Do we really have to settle for “just do nothing at all and hope everything falls into place somehow?”

  67. Next year’s team could very easily be exactly the same as this year’s, plus whoever we draft.

    This is basically what I was saying, and a big part of the plan these guys probably presented to Dolan was that “the kids” will need to improve over multiple years because they are so young, after all. Sadly, they picked the wrong guys with Knox/Frank, but in the end, those guys could improve to league average by the time they’re 24. Not saying that’s a win, but maybe they’ll at least get some homegrown role players out of it.

    The other part was signing the vets, who were brought in to teach the kids how to win. That didn’t go very well either but is why they want to keep Morris – because he’s really the only “winner” and team leader they signed who is playing well. But regardless, Mills’ argument can be that – either way – the team wins. If they win with the vets, they keep them, and if they lose, they can cut them free and get a great draft pick and lots of cap space out of it.

    I think that was probably the extent of the plan – one that was meant to buy Mills/Perry like 4 years. So I wouldn’t be surprised if the current administration stays along with Miller if he can show some improvement with the kids.

  68. There’s nothing intrinsically wrong with trading picks. There’s something wrong with trading top picks that are not adequately protected, etc.. for older players that aren’t any good.

    Sure, but have you ever stopped to think about why it is that you’re never able to name a specific situation in which it would make sense for the Knicks to do this?

    It’s because when it comes to players actually on the trade market, even young ones, the value that comes from picks (with their 4 guaranteed cost-controlled years, subsequent RFA rights, etc.) always blatantly outweighs whatever value the players on the market can bring to this team.

    Notice how just about everyone agreed that trading for Drummond would be a bad idea? That’s because he’s exactly the kind of young player that tends to be on the trade market–somewhat productive, but deeply flawed with dwindling team/cost control.

    So yeah, when someone like KAT is on the market we can have a legitimate conversation about the value of picks vs guaranteed production from a youngish veteran. Until then, every time you say the Knicks should trade picks for players but name neither the picks nor the players, you are saying nothing at all.

  69. Just to clarify, I’m not a fan of this “plan” – just trying to expose it. I don’t believe in paying big money for mediocre players just to get “leadership” or whatever, and I agree that they could use more draft assets to help speed up this process.

    But really, they need to pick better players in the draft! Those players are there – draft position doesn’t matter. Mitchell, SGA… those guys were there! Pick them!!

  70. Alternatively we can sign shittier vets like Taj who in no way impede the tank. Morris, Portis is the issue.

    Also if you are signing shitty vets. Don’t start them over Mitch and don’t over pay Ellington and Taj for no reason

  71. At some point strategy and execution become indistinguishable. But trading picks to improve a mediocre to bad team is neither good in execution or strategy.

  72. Trading picks has never been a problem per se, Houston traded picks for Harden, LA traded picks for Davis, it’s what you do when you can get legitimate superstars on board. Nobody would be against trading picks for KAT, it’s just a discussion of how many picks and what picks to give.

    The Isiah plan failed simply because he traded good picks for trash players, not because he traded picks. If you trade good picks for good players, like the Mavs did for Doncic for example, it’s a perfectly fine situation. It’s just that having the opportunity to trade picks for established superstars or sure-fire prospects is very rare and unreliable, Ainge hoarded a ton of assets and is watching those assets devalue, like the Kings pick last year and the Grizzlies pick this year, because he couldn’t find a trade using those assets, and we’re talking about the Celtics, a team who has been close to contention for years and has a stellar reputation in terms of management.

  73. The problems with this approach:

    1) Our mediocre vets mostly eat ass. We’re something around the 4th worst team in the NBA under Miller. With the new draft odds that’s mostly fine for positioning. Obviously worse is better but given the actual options that appear to be available, whatever it’s fine.

    2) We do have some surplus picks. We could probably get another late first but whatever. It’s Dolan Rules out there, actions are constrained whether he’s involved in making decisions or not.

    Yes, it’s been a long two decades. But another year of this bullshit then Masai would be not horrible.

    On the other, I’m on the internet composing an elaborate fantasy that involves Dolan forcing inaction on people he doesn’t trust because McKinsey told him not to trade first rounders so he has to wait a year to hire the replacement (that I imagine, but it’s really just wishful thinking) he actually wants. For lunch today I’ll be ordering “Questioning your life choices” with a side of “the Knicks will suck forever.” There’s a lot of fiber in those dishes, which is odd cause they seem to take forever to digest.

  74. I don’t know. Maybe I’ll argue that Mills is worse than his predecessors b/c he was around to see the shit show that was Thomas and Jackson, yet under his watch the show continues, just in a slightly different form.

    OTOH, yeah, he doesn’t trade away/waste first round picks like Thomas (the sole positive lesson Mills seems to have learned from Jackson), but he wastes cap space and opportunity just like Jackson did. Not in length of years like Noah, but just in smaller increments like Portis. Don’t forget Timmy, though he was able to wriggle out of that one.

    It looked for a fleeting moment that he might have figured out the value in acquiring assets with the KP trade, but that was really just him getting rid of a massive headache. Maybe he’ll surprise us by dealing Morris for a 1st rounder and dumping the garbage for whatever conditional 2nd rounders might be available?

    And it would be nice to hire a coach that can actually show progress with the youngsters (Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox). I think it is fair to say that all of those guys are being misused to some extent.

  75. This is a bit off topic (true to myself here) but I’m not sure how to find the answers.

    How many agents control the entire landscape of NBA players? Is there a graph somewhere that maps agents to players? Who are the strongest agents and who are they managing? Are their players making more money?

    Which front offices are tight with which agents, meaning they have hired many players represented by these agents? Specifically this question for the Knicks in the past 20 years?

  76. And it would be nice to hire a coach that can actually show progress with the youngsters (Mitch, RJ, Frank, Knox).

    Isn’t Miller supposed to be solid at development? Either way he’s normal and fine. Like, you can put all the hot sauce on it you want it’s still going to have an after taste of feces. Cause it’s a shit sandwich.

    Might skip lunch after all.

  77. @89
    Hopefully Miller will handle the youngsters well, but we’ll see. First the FO needs to clear the way for those guys to be used where they might develop (no guarantees, of course): Knox to the 4, Frank to 2/3, RJ to the 3, and Mitch to get consistent time, etc.

    Get Trier some time, too. I’d actually start him at the 2 with Frank off the bench. Knox off the bench, too, b/c of Randle.

    Dump those vets that are in the way, and that includes Morris. I’m fine with keeping Payton, ugly warts and all, at the 1 to help organize the kids.

  78. First the FO needs to clear the way for those guys to be used where they might develop

    Look, the shit is the most important part of a shit sandwich. We can’t kick it to the curb.

  79. Luka went 8/12 from 3, a career high in made 3s, including this incredible rainbow to ice the game. The lesson as always: supremely talented basketball players find ways to win basketball games.

    He now leads the league in BPM, just ahead of Giannis, and is also tied for first in VORP.

  80. 1) If you don’t trade veterans who give you marginal wins, your picks will look more like Ntilikina and Knox than, say, Fox and WCJ.

    But even if we do trade veterans for picks it’s not going to be the sort of picks that got Fox and WCJ. They will be late first round picks at best. And trading Morris will make the team worse, but it’s hard to say that the team will be much worse, so the eventual 2020 pick is likely to be about the same. Given the new draft lottery structure, you basically have to be lucky to get a top pick. Assuming we don’t get lucky (because Knick’s, of course) we are going to have to build slowly with middling picks.

    Don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against getting another pick or two. Every one we get improves our chances of drafting a hidden gem. But they don’t improve our chances of that by much, and we still will probably have to wait a year or two for a hidden gem to develop. Also, Perry and Mills clearly want to make NY an attractive free agent destination, which I support. But that means being careful your trades don’t give the impression you are constantly flipping players.

  81. He now leads the league in BPM, just ahead of Giannis, and is also tied for first in VORP.

    I mean, who could have guessed that the kid who was the European MVP at 18 would turn out to be a great NBA player?

  82. But that means being careful your trades don’t give the impression you are constantly flipping players.

    Seeing as how they’ve never flipped a player before this, that does not seem like a realistic concern.

  83. I was just reminded of the fact that Phil had a Rose for Rubio deal on the table and he said no, that the Wolves had to throw in more to the deal. The Wolves, of course, said that the Knicks are lucky enough that Thibs is brain-addled enough to want Rose for Rubio. There’s no way they’re adding to the deal. The Knicks then gave in on the bluff with minutes to spare before the deadline and now Minny was, like, “I dunno…” long enough for the deadline to pass without a deal getting done.

    Phil might not have been Isiah bad, but you guys get why saying Mills and Perry aren’t Phil level bad means little when I say Phil wasn’t Isiah level bad. In other words, it’s a difference without a distinction. They all suck.

  84. @97 yeah, but I defy Rubio to score 22 points on 22 shots. No one can touch Rose in the “shots equals pointz” department.

  85. Seeing as how they’ve never flipped a player before this, that does not seem like a realistic concern

    True, but what I think what’s important here is that whatever player it is doesn’t end up bad mouthing the organization. If Morris goes to Philly, where he’s from, he might be all smiles and hint to Philly he’d be interested in re-signing. If he gets traded to the Timberwolves, I doubt he would feel the same.

  86. I have to say, I was a little surprised to discover Rose is posting an all-time high in TS% and the same WS/48 as Rubio.

  87. One of the first things Sean Marks did was trade Thad Young for the pick that turned into Caris LeVert. About a year later he traded Brook Lopez, who was literally the face of the Brooklyn Nets, to the Lakers for DAR and Mozgov.

    Two years after that he signed Kyrie Irving and Kevin Durant.

    So yeah, not sure this is a thing.

  88. Isiah DID flip a player. His trade of Nazr Mohammed for 2 1RPs from San Antonio is I believe the last true vet for youth trade the Knicks made. They even absorbed Malik Rose’s pretty horrific deal in the process. The picks became David Lee and Mardy Collins, so it worked out wonderfully. No wonder the Knicks never did it again.

  89. Both the Suns and the Blazers could really use Morris at the 3/4 to help them get into the playoffs (which they could use I assume?) but I haven’t heard anything on those fronts. Maybe playoffs aren’t worth a 1st to them?

  90. @99

    I really think you argue this in good faith, but are you really worried about the New York Knicks taking a reputation hit? Like Morris becoming angry because he was traded to the Timberwolves will be the last straw that makes anyone say “oh my the Knicks are a mess”?

    The Celtics have done so many players, even legendary ones they had dirty, and they still have a pretty good reputation around the league. The Lakers are willing to trade anyone and their mothers to build a contender… you first need to build a good reputation before you worry about losing it.

  91. Bruno?that is a good question. I don’t know how big a hit to the Knicks it would be. I was basically speculating that Perry and Mills might worry about it, but it could be not.

  92. Not sure how realistic a destination Portland was for Morris, but it’s off the table now. They just traded Bazemore’s expiring and two seconds for Ariza.

  93. Isiah DID flip a player. His trade of Nazr Mohammed for 2 1RPs from San Antonio is I believe the last true vet for youth trade the Knicks made. They even absorbed Malik Rose’s pretty horrific deal in the process. The picks became David Lee and Mardy Collins, so it worked out wonderfully. No wonder the Knicks never did it again.

    I was specifically referring to Mills and Perry as “they.” But yeah, it’s ridiculous how this team never tries to repeat the shit that actually worked for them in the past but instead repeats the shit that didn’t over and over again.

  94. That Luka stepback caused Bazemore to get instantly traded to the Kings

  95. Not sure how realistic a destination Portland was for Morris, but it’s off the table now. They just traded Bazemore’s expiring and two seconds for Ariza.

    Well that sort of gives you a rough idea of a 34 yr old player playing poorly even Vlade can extract 2 #2’s. If they are the least bit interested they should certainly be able to get Philly’s 2 early #2’s or better for Morris…..pull the effin trigger plz…..

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Trevor+Ariza&player_id1_select=Trevor+Ariza&player_id1=arizatr01&y1=2020&player_id2_hint=Marcus+Morris&player_id2_select=Marcus+Morris&y2=2020&player_id2=morrima03&idx=players

  96. Well that sort of gives you a rough idea of a 34 yr old player playing poorly even Vlade can extract 2 #2’s. If they are the least bit interested they should certainly be able to get Philly’s 2 early #2’s or better for Morris…..pull the effin trigger plz…..

    Yeah, sure seems like that has to be the floor of Morris’ trade value, right?

  97. Yeah, that does make me think Morris is worth a first then (or a former 1st rounder that’s playing decently). Pointless move by Portland. Ariza is a shell of his former self.

    Edit: I guess it’s more of a money-saving move.

  98. Interestingly, the trade fails in the ESPN trade machine.

    The Ariza deal? Did you include the other guys the Kings sent along?

  99. Edit: I guess it’s more of a money-saving move.

    I’m guessing a couple of million isn’t even a rounding error for the estate of Paul Allen……

Comments are closed.