Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, July 30, 2014

Pacers 40, Knicks 17

New York Knicks 104 Final
Recap | Box Score
112 Indiana Pacers
Carmelo Anthony, SF 40 MIN | 17-31 FG | 4-5 FT | 10 REB | 2 AST | 39 PTS | -7

Melo was in straight up NBA ’95 mode for most of the night, with mid range darts and dastardly drives the decisive brushstrokes of a true masterpiece…. Until the hanging nails came straight out the wall, and Melo reverted to that generic store brand of iso-ball — the cheaply-made kind that prolongs a loss rather than assure a win. He was also pretty inconsistent on D, allowing guys to slip right past him for offensive boards, and letting Danny Granger — though Shumpert was equally at fault here — keep his own heat stoked.

But that’s not what I came here to talk about. The biggest Melo moment– to which many of you are probably privy – came in the second half, when the Knick forward passed some guy named Walter Frazier on the NBA’s all-time scoring list. Now, I’ve personally never heard of this Frazier cat. But I do know that the guy currently ahead of Melo is kind of a big deal. Name’s Porter. Terry Porter. Told you. Big deal.

Landry Fields, G 23 MIN | 5-8 FG | 3-4 FT | 4 REB | 2 AST | 15 PTS | +6

I’ll come clean. When Landry hit that first corner three, and then followed it up a few minutes later with a pair of free throws — as in two, all consecutive like — I took off my pants. Only for a second, though. Promise. Weirdly, despite a solid start at both ends of the slab, Landry’s ass was festooned to the bench for most of the second half, and only got the cold-legged summons with Indiana buckled in the driver’s seat. Luckily, Woodson won’t have to choose J.R. Smith over Fields down the stretch of the next game, because J.R. Smith was a colossal dumbass. More on that later.

Tyson Chandler, C 40 MIN | 3-5 FG | 6-11 FT | 14 REB | 1 AST | 12 PTS | -2

Free throw and pass-catching woes aside, Chandler did a pretty outstanding job keeping Hibbert – whose most impactful buckets came on absurd shot-clock beaters and off-balance jumpers – from wreaking any kind of offensive havoc. More importantly, Tyson’s defensive rotations were instrumental in forcing many an early Pacer cough-up. But he was also partially liable for some of the absurd glass-pounding administered by the Pacers during the second half…….. Y’all can just tweet me your death threats.

Baron Davis, PG 29 MIN | 2-8 FG | 1-1 FT | 3 REB | 3 AST | 6 PTS | -8

Holy shit.

I often wonder how many times Davis’ parental units used the phrase “JESUS BARON, WOULD YOU KNOCK THAT CRAP OFF?” growing up. I’ve since settled on “somewhere between one hundred and fifty thousand.” In the same way that Anthony Davis’ performance in the NCAA championship proved you can have an enormous impact on a basketball game without scoring much at all, tonight a different Davis — one whose facial hair issues have gone from “charming calling card” to “the wildlife nesting inside is probably slowing him down” — proved you can have a truly terrible basketball game, and it will be reflected in the box score with 100% accuracy. There were simply too many blunders to name, but suffice it to say most of them involved passes that more closely resembled a small child tossing a baby duckling into the air, only to realize that baby ducks actually don’t fly, let alone in the direction you want them to.

Iman Shumpert, G 37 MIN | 2-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 5 PTS | 27 GSPM | -14

Boy, do I feel like a twit for writing THIS! Shumpert’s game wasn’t equal opportunity offensive in the way Baron’s was; his catalyst D was hounding in spurts, and he again showed restraint with his offensive decision-making. But he also lost track of Granger about three too many times in the second half, on a night when the Pacer’s Captain — who, let’s face it, has an offensive game about as dynamic as a toaster oven — was locked in like Galileo. By the way, that GSPM stands for gallons of sweat per minute. Just felt like it was about time his contribution was acknowledged. Seriously though, he might have a thyroid issue.

Mike Bibby, PG 5 MIN | 0-1 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 0 PTS | -1

By far Blobster Bibb’s best moment – which also happens to double as the most fascinating case of rigor mortis ever recorded – came when he blocked a layup attempt by Leandro Barbosa, a living human being boasting roughly 60 times the vertical.

Steve Novak, SF 13 MIN | 3-4 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 9 PTS | -8

Burying that buzzer beater at the end of the first was colossal, momentum wise. Unfortunately, the next few minutes were wrought with examples of why Novak’s is the emergency breakdown lane, with saving a ball under Indy’s basket and taking a charge by basically trying to run in the opposite direction being the real highlights. But by far his most unlikely contribution came with his two blocks, which I will now re-enact by stretching to knock two jars of garlic salt off of this spice rack.

J.R. Smith, SG 29 MIN | 3-11 FG | 4-4 FT | 9 REB | 4 AST | 11 PTS | -6

You know it was only a matter of time before the more benign boners morphed — if only for a moment — into one of violent rage. The choke job all but complete, Smith reacted to a missed shot by taking both arms and throwing Leandro Barbosa to the floor like a sack of sorghum. The resulting Flagrant 2 means Smith will likely be enjoying Thursday’s date with the Magic — a team you know wants to feed us to a woodchipper — from the sidelines. Mostly because there are no houses of ill repute in Orlando. It’s Disney World, man.

Anyway, Smith was decent in spurts, man-crashed the boards, and hit a couple of timely buckets. Also, his four assists – all of them perfectly timed and delivered – beat his previous career best by 15. Which means a “FACILITATOR” face tattoo can’t be far behind.

Toney Douglas, PG 15 MIN | 1-6 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 3 PTS | +4

I know, we all went bananas when TD hit that first three — a 25-footer he could only find the courage to hoist after taking enough time to listen to both sides of Bitches Brew. After that, his claim to fame became his aiding and abetting perhaps the worst Knick rotation of the season. We’re happy he’s getting minutes, but kinda sorta wished it didn’t have to be, like, in an actual game.

Josh Harrellson, F 9 MIN | 2-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 4 PTS | -4

Admit it, when you saw Jorts and one time Poplar Bluff High School Muskrat King Tyler Hansbrough square off for that second quarter jump ball, you expected this. Admit it, when Harrellson’s first 16-foot baseline turnaround jumper hit nothin’ but nylon, you wanted him to shoot it 30 more times. Admit it, that’s the last time you’ll ever see a mustache and a protective facemask come that close to touching. Admit it, it kinda turned you on.

Five Things We Saw

  1. The Pacers grabbed 16 offensive rebounds on 45 misses, a rate that — as was pointed out by my boy Jared Dubin (@JADubin5) — would basically lead the NBA. By a solid 10 points. The Knicks had managed to do a pretty decent job of preventing this kind of systemic meltdown during their recent tear, but just couldn’t find the bodies to throw in front of the Pacers’ board hungry — if otherwise limited — front court.
  2. The Knicks managed to build their sizable second and third-quarter lead through a nice balance of in-rhythm jumpers (Melo, mostly) and aggressive drives (Melo, mostly). But once Indy started letting their offense fuel their D, the ‘Bockers tightened. And when you’re giving up 40 points in a quarter, as the Knicks did in the final frame, that fuel can be enough to burn a city.
  3. The Pacer bench was downright incendiary, outscoring the Knick reserves 40-27. It’s far too simplistic to say this is where the game was won, mostly because you just just as easily say that about the offensive rebounds, turnovers (India committed only 8), terrible down the stretch calls (I’m looking at you, Joey), or the fact that Reggie Miller was chosen for the Hall of Fame just days ago. But the fact is their bench brought a better game tonight, on both ends of the floor.
  4. FUN SQUAD ACID TRIP: Oh man, this TV’s way too close — too many gamma rays. Either that or the couch is using me as a ransom, paying the little men inside who feed me mind pills… Wait, what… what is this? Bibby, Douglas, Novak, Jorts, and Smith are on the court at the same time? Oh man I’m freakin’ out oh man oh man oh man oh man oh man… That stuffed octopus on the mantle, he’s getting pretty mouthy. Mouth. What a $#%^@ up word. Mouth. Mouth. Mouth. Mouth. Prolly wants me to swim in his ink, but the floor mud is a much better habitat. FOR LIZARDS… The Fun Squad is still out there. The Pacers, they keep running past them and leaving chem trails that stab the Knicks but they don’t die they just keep turning it over…. This can’t — maybe TD is really Shumpert and Jorts is Chandler and it just looks like a stache but really it’s the octopus ink! I gotta get rid of that octopus but I can’t touch it. I wonder if I can somehow lasso him with one of my hairs…. Jesus another turnover, this lead’s sure disappearing fast…. It just keeps getting worse, wha…. Bibby’s skeleton is trying to claw out of the skin! Jesus this is terrible, I need to go in the closet….
  5. No need to pussyfoot around it: That was a crippling, demoralizing, momentum-snuffing, humiliating, pride-squelching, soul-stabbing, horribly-timed loss. Coupled with Milwaukee’s taking care of business last night against the Bullzards, the Knicks’ hold on the 8th and final Playoff seed stands at a paltry game-and-a-half. Fasten your seat belt’s lady’s and degenerates, cuz the Bucks in the mirror are much, much closer than they appear. In fact, they’re getting ready to lay down a steamer right in our back seat.

65 comments on “Pacers 40, Knicks 17

  1. Thomas B.

    A few weeks ago the knicks blew out a team but let them score 40 4th quarter points. I said it was a bad idea to ever give up 40 because you should never let a team realize they can score 40 in a quarter. I was told to shut up because it was meaningless. Is it still meaningless I wonder.

  2. Brian Cronin

    A few weeks ago the knicks blew out a team but let them score 40 4th quarter points. I said it was a bad idea to ever give up 40 because you should never let a team realize they can score 40 in a quarter. I was told to shut up because it was meaningless. Is it still meaningless I wonder.

    I honestly don’t even know which game you’re referring to. Indiana? Portland? Toronto? Which game?

  3. Brian Cronin

    Oh, okay, gotcha. But didn’t they follow that game up with a defeat of Indy the next night in Indy? So I dunno if that game really had that much of an effect on things.

  4. 2FOR18

    Wow – you took your pants off and there are a couple of “boners” and a “pussyfoot” in your write up.
    I think you’re even more disturbed about this loss than I am.
    I need a bath.

  5. Robtachi

    As a lifelong Rangers fan (this season notwithstanding), I can tell you there is nothing more hopelessly frustrating than watching your beloved team, knowing there is absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel this season. It’s gonna be 7th, or 8th, if anything at all, and it’s gonna be a really short stay in the postseason.

    Depressing.

  6. Thomas B.

    Brian Cronin:
    Oh, okay, gotcha. But didn’t they follow that game up with a defeat of Indy the next night in Indy? So I dunno if that game really had that much of an effect on things.

    Letting a team back in became habit.

  7. 2FOR18

    Robtachi:
    As a lifelong Rangers fan (this season notwithstanding), I can tell you there is nothing more hopelessly frustrating than watching your beloved team, knowing there is absolutely no light at the end of the tunnel this season. It’s gonna be 7th, or 8th, if anything at all, and it’s gonna be a really short stay in the postseason.

    Depressing.

    I’m still hoping they win a top 3 pick in the lottery.

  8. Brian Cronin

    Letting a team back in became habit.

    I guess, but I think it is personnel more than anything else. Like others have mentioned as well as me, if Lin played tonight, the Knicks almost certainly do not lose this game.

  9. BigBlueAL

    If Lin was healthy the Knicks would have a real legitimate chance of winning the division. Now w/o him they are a 50/50 shot at best of making the playoffs unless I am (hopefully) overestimating the Bucks.

  10. jon abbey

    Thomas B.:
    A few weeks ago the knicks blew out a team but let them score 40 4th quarter points. I said it was a bad idea to ever give up 40 because you should never let a team realize they can score 40 in a quarter. I was told to shut up because it was meaningless. Is it still meaningless I wonder.

    oh, come on. you realize they played another game in between that, right? that second game played out exactly the same way, except Lin stepped up down the stretch the way no one did tonight (Melo was awesome overall, but did nothing during that massive spurt by Indy).

  11. Brian Cronin

    Hollinger still has the Knicks as a 65% chance to make the playoffs, with Milwaukee at 45% (the extra 10% from Milwaukee is in the slight chance that either Boston or Philly drops out of the playoffs).

  12. jon abbey

    Brian Cronin:
    Hollinger still has the Knicks as a 65% chance to make the playoffs, with Milwaukee at 45% (the extra 10% from Milwaukee is in the slight chance that either Boston or Philly drops out of the playoffs).

    that doesn’t update until the morning, even though the records update when the games end.

  13. Brian Cronin

    that doesn’t update until the morning, even though the records update when the games end.

    Aha. Thanks, I was surprised that it seemed to update so quickly (to have the correct records). Well, that’s annoying, then. I bet it still has the Knicks as the favorite, though, which I think is accurate. 65% probably was too much to hope for. Now I almost wish the Knicks didn’t kick the Magic’s ass so much, because then they might not take Thursday’s game so seriously.

  14. d-mar

    I think we all know where this is headed, the game against the Bucks on 4/9 will most likely determine whether we make the playoffs or not. Next 4 games, Bucks go 3-1, next 3 games, Knicks go 1-2 (hopefully) and both teams are 28-29 on 4/9. Lose that game, and with the tiebreaker going to Milwaukee, we’re pretty much fucked.

  15. Brian Cronin

    It’ll be interesting to see what the Knicks do on Thursday with regards to the offense when Melo is on the bench, since Smith will likely be out for Thursday’s game. I presume Melo will play at least 41 minutes on Thursday if it is a close game, but where do the Knicks get offense from in those other 7 minutes with Smith out?

  16. 2FOR18

    JR is getting suspended for that little love tap? Charles Oakley is spinning in his grave.

  17. Thomas B.

    jon abbey: oh, come on. you realize they played another game in between that, right? that second game played out exactly the same way, except Lin stepped up down the stretch the way no one did tonight (Melo was awesome overall, but did nothing during that massive spurt by Indy).
    No I did mot realize that. I thought this was the only game they played against anyone since that time.

    Good teams have good habits. This team does not have good habits.

  18. Thomas B.

    Brian Cronin: I guess, but I think it is personnel more than anything else. Like others have mentioned as well as me, if Lin played tonight, the Knicks almost certainly do not lose this game.

    Because they don’t blow leads when he plays?

  19. max fisher-cohen

    BigBlueAL:
    This night keeps getting worse:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_john_calipari_knicks_kentucky_040312

    John Calipari would last about 90 seconds on this knicks team. You thought D’Antoni was inflexible? Calipari has like 18 sticks up his ass. If it was possible to be more anal than PJ Carlesimo, Calipari would be. If it was possible to passive-aggressively strangle another person, we could very likely see Melo reenact Sprewell’s crowning moment over in California with William Wesley in between, trying to break them up.

  20. Brian Cronin

    John Calipari would last about 90 seconds on this knicks team. You thought D’Antoni was inflexible? Calipari has like 18 sticks up his ass. If it was possible to be more anal than PJ Carlesimo, Calipari would be. If it was possible to passive-aggressively strangle another person, we could very likely see Melo reenact Sprewell’s crowning moment over in California with William Wesley in between, trying to break them up.

    While you’re absolutely correct, do you seriously trust Dolan not to hire him if he can’t get Phil Jackson?

  21. ruruland

    Thomas B.: Because they don’t blow leads when he plays?

    Boy, that’s a little rough. What’s the last game they blew like this?

    Would you argue that Lin, Amar’e (the skinny version) and Jeffries are not 3 of the team’s top 7 players?

    baskets and loose balls turn stop surges as much as anything else. With no ability to generate offense outside of Melo, you have to imagine those guys would have been able to get some baskets during stagnation.

  22. ROUGH

    ruruland: Boy, that’s a little rough. What’s the last game they blew like this?

    Would you argue that Lin, Amar’e (the skinny version) and Jeffries are not 3 of the team’s top 7 players?

    baskets and loose balls turn stop surges as much as anything else. With no ability to generate offense outside of Melo, you have to imagine those guys would have been able to get some baskets during stagnation.

    It’s not the baskets they did not score tonight. It the defensive end! They scored 17 points in the fourth. Plus 15 points advantage from the third. That makes 32 points. That is, they would have gotten away with the W had they conceded 31 points! But no, they conceded 40!

    That is the main question. What caused such a collapse? Fatique? Bad habits? Bad team DNA?

  23. Robert Silverman

    I know we’re dealing with the King Kong of Stupid, but I can’t believe even Dolan would be dumb enough to consider Calipari — or that Calipari would be dumb enough to ditch KY for NY.

    What makes a TON more sense is that Cal’s (or his agent’s) leaking the story to leverage more $ out of the University, especially when his stock’s at an all-time high

  24. Robert Silverman

    Brian Cronin:
    You don’t think Calipari’s ego wants to prove that he can succeed in the NBA?

    Sure. I just can’t believe his ego would override common sense. There’s a reason Pitino never came back after the Celtics debacle — because his coaching style is far better suited to the college game. Same holds true for Cal. I can’t believe he’d give up the chance to be worshipped at KY like Coach K is at Duke, Knight was at Indiana, Smith at UNC.

  25. Brian Cronin

    But Coach K, Knight and Smith never tried the NBA, so we know that that life did not hold an appeal for them. Calipari, though, I dunno. Heck, even Pitino left New York on his own volition, so his NBA career was better than Calipari, so he does not have as much to prove.

  26. Robert Silverman

    Brian Cronin:
    But Coach K, Knight and Smith never tried the NBA, so we know that that life did not hold an appeal for them. Calipari, though, I dunno. Heck, even Pitino left New York on his own volition, so his NBA career was better than Calipari, so he does not have as much to prove.

    True. I just hope Dolan isn’t stup…Crap. I might as well hope the Sun rises in the West.

    I never expected it, but I do like Woodson. In the few games I saw him coach in ATL, I wasn’t impressed, but I think he’s a good coach. And more importantly, the Knicks on the roster think he’s a good coach.

  27. jon abbey

    so, Melo played really well for most of the game, he hit some really impressive shots in the first half especially, and 39 points in 40 minutes against a good team is tough to argue with. but…

    he came back into the game in the 4th with NY up 89-78, and he only scored 2 points in the next 8 minutes, while IND went on a 23-4 run. the great ones don’t let that happen no matter how little help they’re getting from their teammates, they just don’t.

  28. Brian Cronin

    I was actually thinking about that, too, Jon. I was trying to quantify it into words, but I was unsure of how to phrase it. What I was thinking was, let’s say Melo was shooting 3 for 15 but then at the end of the game, he makes three straight shots and the Knicks win. We would basically say, “Yeah, he struggled early but he came through in the end and that is what matters.” So, then, if that is what we would say then, shouldn’t we give him some grief for not coming through at the end of the game tonight?

    My thing is that I think that’s probably unfair of us to judge him like that, but at the same time, I know we would judge him on the end of the game if he succeeded there after failing most of the game, so maybe it is fair? I dunno, it just seems wrong to me to give a guy grief who just got 39 points on good shooting in an offense where him trying to shoot tough shots/driving to the basket was the only option for the Knicks for most of the game, and especially the fourth quarter, where every other Knick was just taking contested outside jumper after contested outside jumper.

  29. BigBlueAL

    From what I can tell Melo was 5 for 9 in the 4th quarter for 12 pts. Did have a couple of turnovers and committed a couple of shooting fouls but he certainly didnt play poorly offensively in that quarter.

  30. Brian Cronin

    He had a great stretch when he almost single-handedly brought them back into the game on just two possessions (a three-point play followed by a three), but I think Jon is talking about the stretch from 10:33 to 2:47 where the Knicks went from being up 89-78 to being down 101-93 (which is where Melo had the awesome back-to-back three-point plays). 89-78 to 93-101 is a huge turnaround, and in that time frame, Melo went 1 for 3, with two turnovers and two shooting fouls. You can blame Woodson for it, too, though, as there’s no way Melo should only be taking three shots in the midst of a 23-4 run, right?

  31. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL:
    From what I can tell Melo was 5 for 9 in the 4th quarter for 12 pts.Did have a couple of turnovers and committed a couple of shooting fouls but he certainly didnt play poorly offensively in that quarter.

    very misleading, he was invisible for a crucial 8 minute stretch. I don’t think it’s on Woodson, it’s not even like he was being swarmed by two or three guys when he touched the ball.

  32. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, Indiana was guarding him straight up. Now that you mention it, earlier in the game, he was getting to the basket and/or getting fouled with ease when they single covered him, but he did not do that in the fourth. I guess it was fatigue. A lot of the guys looked fatigued. Which is weird, since they had a couple of off days before the game.

  33. BigBlueAL

    I blame Baron Davis’s corpse.

    Anyway looks like Ryan Anderson is most certainly out on Thursday (was in a walking boot today). Dunno about Nelson and Howard though.

  34. Brian Cronin

    I blame Baron Davis’s corpse.

    I really don’t mean to blame Melo, as obviously, this loss is on the support staff who gave him no support. It is more disappointment than anything.

    And yeah, Davis…not his night. 20 foot jumper, 17 foot jumper, 21 foot jumper, 25 foot jumper, 28 foot jumper…is he just not physically able to drive anymore? He literally took two shots all night from closer than 17 feet. A lay-up (which he made, along with an “and 1″) and a four-footer (that he missed).

    Anyway looks like Ryan Anderson is most certainly out on Thursday (was in a walking boot today). Dunno about Nelson and Howard though.

    Good news. Hopefully Howard and Nelson miss the game, too. Al Trautwig made some weird comment about Quentin Richardson tonight. He said some snide remark about how Q is now in shape. Does Q really look like he got into better shape since he left the Knicks?

  35. jon abbey

    at least Baron has the excuses of being old and a hamstring issue. what excuse does Toney Douglas have for becoming entirely worthless at the age of 26?

  36. New Guy

    Calipari might not be so bad. We could sign Dwight Howard for the mid-level, while his grandmother suddenly finds a lost bag with $20,000,000 in it. Three years in a row. He’s got experience with this.

  37. New Guy

    jon abbey:
    so, Melo played really well for most of the game, he hit some really impressive shots in the first half especially, and 39 points in 40 minutes against a good team is tough to argue with. but…

    he came back into the game in the 4th with NY up 89-78, and he only scored 2 points in the next 8 minutes, while IND went on a 23-4 run. the great ones don’t let that happen no matter how little help they’re getting from their teammates, they just don’t.

    I’ve seen it happen to Jordan in a playoff game. Against us. It happens. Nothing tonight was on Melo.

  38. Bruno Almeida

    jon abbey:
    so, Melo played really well for most of the game, he hit some really impressive shots in the first half especially, and 39 points in 40 minutes against a good team is tough to argue with. but…

    he came back into the game in the 4th with NY up 89-78, and he only scored 2 points in the next 8 minutes, while IND went on a 23-4 run. the great ones don’t let that happen no matter how little help they’re getting from their teammates, they just don’t.

    yeah, surely they don’t.

    we’re going to be an 8th seed and a one-and-done in the playoffs, and I don’t see things getting much better in the next few years.

  39. drewbreez

    Watched the game. Our two leaders on the floor, Chandler and Anthony were spent by game’s end. Indiana, frankly, out-paced the Knicks. Team needs to learn how to win close games at the line, and through fatigue. I DO declare Lin seems more charged in end-game scenarios like the one that passed but his injury makes that moot. First-round exit because each of the top 3 seeds has better conditioned, less-injured core groups. (Chicago and Boston included.)

  40. WeirdJohn

    So, I was at this game last night. First time I got to see the Knicks play (I live in Indiana, but grew up in NJ, so I’ve been a Knicks fan for a long time). I have to say, I would have rather not had my 1st Knicks game be the one where they coughed up a 15 point lead in the 4th. Do I get a do over?

    In any case, some observations I had which I’m sure are pretty obvious to everyone:

    1. Landry probably had his best game going as a Knick this season. Problem is he only played one half. Why is this? I have no idea. I hope he can keep it up for the rest of the season, as we can’t win with just Melo. We need another option.

    2. Like Jim I can’t explain that whacked out lineup the Knicks had to start the 4th. It was crap. No other way to put it.

    3. Baron looked old, slow and stupid in that game, but especially after taking that hard fall on the foul on his break away layup. After that he looked like the walking dead. Are we sure he didn’t get more hurt on that play than we think? Are we sure he didn’t get bitten by Bibby’s corpse during some late night frolicking in NY?

    4. I can’t bring myself to pin this loss on Carmelo. He practically carried the offense in places. That being said, I’m also not sure he fits with this team. He looked great, but it was also a lot of ISO. That won’t win a lot of games, but it will ALMOST win a lot of games. I just get the feeling that if the Knicks become a team that is Melo ISO most of the time that is the best they will do. ALMOST win a lot of their games.

    All that being said it was a blast seeing the Knicks play. It was fun seeing Novak put up a shot and knowing it will be good. Seeing Melo in the zone was very different live. And even though it was the enemy, hearing a home crowd completely go nuts when their team just made a huge comeback was pretty cool. Just wish it wasn’t against the Knicks. Maybe I’ll try to get to the Boston game this weekend and see what it feels like to be…

  41. WeirdJohn

    feels like to be cheering with the home crowd.

    Sorry, not sure why it cut that last part off.

  42. jon abbey

    New Guy: I’ve seen it happen to Jordan in a playoff game.Against us.It happens.Nothing tonight was on Melo.

    I would like to see specifics on that, and even if that happened, it was against one of the best defenses in recent decades, which was totally keying on him, and it certainly didn’t win the series. but I’d still like to see specifics.

  43. Spree8

    Melo yes….a great scorer but a terrible leader. After what happened to D’antoni, I doubt any of his teammates respect him or even view him as a “captain” of the team. I really don’t blame them…maybe the team did “quit” in the end…? After all it was the “Melo Show” and no one else was getting their shots. Very sad but… what goes around comes around!

  44. ruruland

    Spree8:
    Melo yes….a great scorer but a terrible leader. After what happened to D’antoni, I doubt any of his teammates respect him or even view him as a “captain” of the team. I really don’t blame them…maybe the team did “quit” in the end…? After all it was the “Melo Show” and no one else was getting their shots. Very sad but… what goes around comes around!

    Why do I even post, seriously? if this is how people really feel, I don’t think there’s a point.

    The Nuggets won 67% of their games when Melo scored 30 or more points.

    Dude can’t win, even when he wins, even when he carries the team on his back when nothing else works on offense.

  45. ruruland

    Bruno Almeida: yeah, surely they don’t.

    we’re going to be an 8th seed and a one-and-done in the playoffs, and I don’t see things getting much better in the next few years.

    lmao

  46. ruruland

    jon abbey: very misleading, he was invisible for a crucial 8 minute stretch. I don’t think it’s on Woodson, it’s not even like he was being swarmed by two or three guys when he touched the ball.

    Happened to the Heat 3 times in the Finals last year. Happened to the great Kevin Durant twice in the west finals last year. Happened to Dirk quite a bit in his career. On and on and on. Yeah, though, Melo needed 50 last night…. Doesn’t matter how bad his teammates are playing it’s on him.

  47. New Guy

    jon abbey: I would like to see specifics on that, and even if that happened, it was against one of the best defenses in recent decades, which was totally keying on him, and it certainly didn’t win the series. but I’d still like to see specifics.

    Do you remember Game 6, Knicks/Bulls 1992 EC QF’s? The run we went on the 4Q? Xavier McDaniel standing over a prone Patrick Ewing who had just gotten the And 1 slapping his hand over and over and over? That sh** was legendary. And Jordan couldn’t stop it. Can’t recall the specifics, but we took something like a 6 point deficit and turned it into a 20 point lead. Final score for the quarter was 32-16.

    So yes, the great ones let it happen, too.

  48. New Guy

    PS – I am CERTAIN that my memory is incorrect, so please don’t rake me over the coals if it was less than a 6 point deficit and we turned it around to less than a 20 point lead. But it was one hell of a run.

  49. jon abbey

    ruruland: Happened to the Heat 3 times in the Finals last year. Happened to the great Kevin Durant twice in the west finals last year. Happened to Dirk quite a bit in his career. On and on and on. Yeah, though, Melo needed 50 last night…. Doesn’t matter how bad his teammates are playing it’s on him.

    you really come across as a paid PR guy, just so you know, albeit a very knowledgable one.

  50. ruruland

    jon abbey: you really come across as a paid PR guy, just so you know, albeit a very knowledgable one.

    I dig this board — the great writing and insightful posters, including Abbey. I’m going to stick around even if I annoy the shit out of most you. I’ll try my best to limit my reflexive posting on you know what.

  51. WeirdJohn

    Yeah I’ve got to go with ruru on this one. I don’t think Melo is the problem. I don’t know if he fits within the framework of other players they have and we won’t know until next season. He hasn’t had a full season yet with the complete roster. But color me crazy, but don’t you want someone who can just take over a game when needed? No, you don’t want Melo ISO all the time, but you do want him to do his thing when everybody else implodes like they did last night. Main reason they lost yesterday is the defense disappearing, crappy rebounding in the 4th and a point guard core that has two members from the Walking Dead extras crew.

  52. jon abbey

    yeah, I hope you do stick around, I enjoy your posts. all of us need to try to be less dogmatic and more flexible as events develop, players and roles change, and we gather more info and have more data points. I was asking for Fields to be put in midway through the 4th last night, so even I can do it. :)

    all I was saying was that I found it fascinating and at least a little disturbing that in the game where Melo looked the most unstoppable that he’s looked all year, he turned invisible during the most crucial stretch. that’s not a vote on his career yay or nay, it’s a one game observation, although it was a relatively big game and a tough loss.

  53. 2FOR18

    ruruland: Happened to the Heat 3 times in the Finals last year. Happened to the great Kevin Durant twice in the west finals last year. Happened to Dirk quite a bit in his career. On and on and on. Yeah, though, Melo needed 50 last night…. Doesn’t matter how bad his teammates are playing it’s on him.

    I honestly find it disturbing/creepy/scary that you are so sensitive about any post re: melo. No one has “blamed” melo for the loss last night. Even if there were a couple of melo observations that didn’t sing his praises, they were more than outweighed by all of the posts complimenting him.
    I take you at your word that you’re not reaping any benefits from your posts, so I just don’t get it.

    Also, sorry for my angry post last night. I was pissed off about the game.

  54. WeirdJohn

    I hope you both stick around. I’m stuck in Indy and don’t get to watch a lot of games, so it’s good to absorb information from knowledgeable posters. I’m just starting on trying to get involved in the posts and although I’m a fan, my basketball IQ isn’t that high. Hopefully I can tick it up a few notches while commenting on here.

  55. ruruland

    jon abbey:
    yeah, I hope you do stick around, I enjoy your posts. all of us need to try to be less dogmatic and more flexible as events develop, players and roles change, and we gather more info and have more data points. I was asking for Fields to be put in midway through the 4th last night, so even I can do it. :)

    all I was saying was that I found it fascinating and at least a little disturbing that in the game where Melo looked the most unstoppable that he’s looked all year, he turned invisible during the most crucial stretch. that’s not a vote on his career yay or nay, it’s a one game observation, although it was a relatively big game and a tough loss.

    Huge loss. I’d have to go back to that stretch to see what was going on there. He SHOULd have scored at least 9 in those last couple of minutes, which I think changes the perspective on things.

    He’s always been a strong fourth quarter scorer, obviously, much of his reputation staked on his ability to produce when it matters against set defenses.

    His clutch numbers have always been among the elite:

    http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM

    http://www.82games.com/0910/CSORT11.HTM (his free throw attempts per minute and ft conversion more than make up for relatively low shooting percentage this year)

    He was ridiculous in ’08
    http://www.82games.com/0809/CSORT11.HTM

  56. ruruland

    2FOR18: I honestly find it disturbing/creepy/scary that you are so sensitive about any post re: melo.No one has “blamed” melo for the loss last night.Even if there were a couple of melo observations that didn’t sing his praises, they were more than outweighed by all of the posts complimenting him.
    I take you at your word that you’re not reaping any benefits from your posts, so I just don’t get it.

    Also, sorry for my angry post last night.I was pissed off about the game.

    “disturbing/creepy/scary” That’s never a good sign. I’ll definitely slow down then.

  57. ruruland

    WeirdJohn:
    I hope you both stick around.I’m stuck in Indy and don’t get to watch a lot of games, so it’s good to absorb information from knowledgeable posters.I’m just starting on trying to get involved in the posts and although I’m a fan, my basketball IQ isn’t that high.Hopefully I can tick it up a few notches while commenting on here.

    On behalf of Brian and everyone else, welcome aboard.

  58. WeirdJohn

    Ruru, thanks for the links. Really impressive numbers for Melo. I’m wondering how much of the Knicks’ inconsistency is just due to not having a lot of time to come together as a team. It’s tough to figure it out over the course of season. Especially one as condensed as this one. Melo and company haven’t had a full training camp yet. I also don’t think anyone would argue that they have had probably the most turn over in their roster over the last couple of years than any other team. I’d love to see them get into the playoffs and advance a couple of rounds this year, but I have no expectation of a deep championship run. Next year? Once they have a full training camp (and if they avoid any more major mid season roster changes) it’s a different story. I’d be sorely disappointed if they didn’t make some noise next year.

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