Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Friday, September 19, 2014

Open Thread NY @ LA Lakers

I’m in and out between this game, college hoops, and sleeping.

The Knicks start Duhon, Hughes, Gallo, Lee, and Chandler

144 comments on “Open Thread NY @ LA Lakers

  1. SeeWhyDee77

    This has been on my mind since last season..either they list D Lee as 6’9″ cuz he plays small or Al Harrington’s really 6’7″..b/c Lee looks 2 inches taller than Al. Also Rooster looks more like 6’11″ 215 as opposed to the 6’10″ 225 we list him as. I say jus stick the kid in at the 4 and let him grow into it..he’s gonna make a good 4..he may never post great rebounding numbers, but I see a ceiling of 20ppg, 7.5 rpg and 4 apg..i’ll take that from a frontcourt player no matter whether it’s from the 4 or 3

  2. d-mar

    I really can’t take Duhon anymore. He is the worst finishing PG I think I’ve ever seen, and that includes former Knicks like Rory Sparrow and Edmund Sherrod. And what is it with those 3′s from 2 feet behind the line? What exactly is the point? Please get hurt, I know that’s cruel, but it’s the only way to get him off the court.

  3. SeeWhyDee77

    ..continuation..if we learn to trust him..he may not be as explosive a scorer as Dirk, but he makes for a damn good comparison…or maybe a Stojakovic from his SAC days

  4. SeeWhyDee77

    man…if Harrington ever learns to pass and play to his strengths…with this guy’s talents-he should be a perennial all star

  5. cav0011

    curry is horrible….. but um he changes games O_o Really though once Gallo gets sat unless they put in TDug or Hill i have virtually no interest in the game. Most of the knicks make me physically ill to watch.

  6. SeeWhyDee77

    I know this has been said over and over..but why don’t we run the offense thru Rooster?I know it’s a video game, but I start him at the 4 and let him initiate the offense on NBA Live. He’s killer in the pick and rolls against opposing 4′s..just a thought

  7. Kikuchiyo

    Tell me we don’t lose 4-10 points every quarter with the following:

    *Lee getting steamrolled by centers
    *Duhon not finishing
    *Hughes firing up another almost good shot
    *Harrington and now Eddy forcing up shots where there are no shots
    *Chandler filling up space

    We do see some nice offensive plays most games, but there is so much leaking of this boat. Are there ever any consequences for failure in the D’Antoni system?

  8. Sandy

    Eddy Curry so far…

    Turnovers
    Missed Shots
    Offensive Fouls
    Owned by Bynum
    One very lucky shot

    What does he do for us. For every possession he scores, and give two away.

  9. d-mar

    My optimism on Curry is disappearing. Since the Indy game, he has really looked awful. He misses a layup to end the 1st quarter, and then on an incredible steal, save and pass by Nate, basically hands the ball back to the Lakers. What team would take this guy?

  10. BigBlueAL

    Damn quick hook for Nate, but of course they need to get Duhon back in the game since he was on fire in the 1st quarter.

  11. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    My favorite play of the night:

    Nate puts up a wild shot and clanks it. He follows his shot and strips Bynum (?) under the basket, firing a behind-the-back pass from the baseline to Curry, who’s sitting under the rim. He goes up for a lay-up (and come on, the guy is seven ____ing feet tall — a LAY-UP) and gets rejected.

    Nate hangs his head in disappointment as he runs up the court. The color-commentary guys don’t say a word about it and the production team doesn’t even show a replace of Nate’s flashy hustle play, instead cutting to commercial with Odom’s put-back slam that follows the play.

    Kill me now.

  12. Thomas B.

    cury looks like a guy that has not played ball in two years

    and why does stevie wonder get floor seats. that like a monk going to the strip club.

  13. Sandy

    You have to appreciate Hughes. He really makes some solid defensive plays and he doesn’t need to gamble to do it. Even though he misses shots, he has been taking good shots this year. The reason Duhon is in is because he knows how to move the ball (5 assists). But he sas been shooting terribly. Hopefully he gets that back soon.

  14. David Crockett

    “and why does stevie wonder get floor seats. that like a monk going to the strip club.”

    Isn’t there a blind high school coach somewhere. Seems like that was a story on ESPN at some point.

  15. d-mar

    On a positive note, I do agree with Breen that Chandler looks a lot more active and aggressive lately (despite his missed dunk and layup)

  16. David Crockett

    Chandler saying all the right things in his interview — going to the hoop and getting to the line.

  17. Thomas B.

    im not saying stevie cant go to the game but you know save the cash and sit in the club section, hell get an obstructed view ticket for all it matters.

  18. SeeWhyDee77

    with the way we’ve been playin the past few games, if Duhon ever finds his shot-we should be decent this season..and I agree with Sandy..Hughes has been a revelation this season. Or maybe it’s b/c it’s his contract year..he did the same thing in DC and landed that deal with Cleveland. Strong asset for us on the floor nevertheless

  19. Thomas B.

    gallo is a deft passer, why does Curry not run the pick and roll? it would help with the post entry but he still has to catch the pass

  20. David Crockett

    There really was no reason to take Nate off the floor. That’s when the offense fell apart. Nobody else can beat their guy and create space.

  21. d-mar

    Only Hughes would take a terrible shot, have the ball come right back to him, and then launch a longer shot. For all the good he does, that kind of stuff drives you crazy.

  22. cav0011

    I really hate when they put Gallo in the corner. Whenever they put him there in the offense he doesn’t see the ball and just gets take out of the play.

  23. David Crockett

    Thomas B,

    I actually think Curry has good hands. I don’t recall a lot of trouble with good entries.

    He has concentration problems (e.g., trying to make his move before the ball arrives). He is also a near-disaster if he takes more than one bounce, but he’s not Jared Jeffries. That guy plays in oven mitts.

  24. Thomas B.

    “There really was no reason to take Nate off the floor.”

    five words.

    Duhon photos D’Antoni bikini blackmail

  25. Thomas B.

    I actually think Curry has good hands. I don’t recall a lot of trouble with good entries.

    Maybe its the pressure or dribbling that results in the t/o

  26. Thomas B.

    Only Hughes would take a terrible shot, have the ball come right back to him, and then launch a longer shot. For all the good he does, that kind of stuff drives you crazy.

    Clearly Larry is wearing his W.W.D.D. wrist band.

  27. SeeWhyDee77

    U know what David? Now that I think of it, u may be rite when it comes to Curry’s hands..we don’t have any guards who are adept at the entry pass

  28. BigBlueAL

    Chandler’s game tonight reminds me of a line Bill Walton used to use about Camby alot when he was coming off the bench for the Knicks back in the 2000 post-season: “Never confuse activity with achievement”.

  29. David Crockett

    When Duhon’s not crapping all over his shoes he can enter the ball. This season Curry’s been bad, but he almost couldn’t be good with that kind of layoff. He’s rusty, bobbling passes and not in NBA playing shape.

    In the past, at least *some* of Curry’s turnover troubles were about Stephon Marbury. But a good bit of his troubles were about bowling people over, dribbling the ball off his foot, etc.

  30. Sandy

    yea, Gallo’s off so far. Some make-able shots. I also hate Derek Fisher. I almost hate him as much as Paul Pierce.

  31. Ted Nelson

    SeeWhyDee77,

    You can check out pre-draft measurements here:

    http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-pre-draft-measurements/?page=&year=All&sort2=DESC&draft=0&pos=0&sort=

    Some players grow after they’re drafted and some were never measured before the draft (especially true for international prospects). Pretty good resource, though.

    Lee was 6’7.75″ w/out shoes (same height as Kurt Thomas, Kevin Love, and Carl Landry among others) and 6’9″ with shoes. Harrington and Danilo aren’t listed, unfortunately, but Lee’s height gives you an idea of their relative height I guess. The NBA/ media heights are definitely BS.

  32. Thomas B.

    To the tune of Frère Jacques…

    where is douglas
    where is douglas
    here i am
    on the bench
    are you going to play sir
    no i do not think so
    duhon all day duhon all day

  33. d-mar

    I know they’re playing a 3-10 team, but that might be the quietest crowd for a defending champion team I’ve ever heard. Those fans don’t deserve another title.

    (Please delete my comments above re: Chandler.)

  34. BigBlueAL

    So the Knicks have a 3 on 1 fastbreak and Duhon has the ball with 3 options: take the layup himself, give it up to Nate, give it up to Jeffries.

    Of course he gives it up to Jeffries who commits a charge.

  35. Kikuchiyo

    Ah yes, I can get some sleep tonight. Didn’t need a 1:30 a.m. overtime loss.

    Maybe I’ll leave the TV on for the soothing, consistent sounds of Wilson Chandler jumpers hitting iron and bouncing out.

  36. tastycakes

    BTW, Lakers broadcast feature “courtside view” is awesome. The announcers shut the hell up and you get a close-up, low-angle view.

    Hey, there’s got to be some reason I’m still watching.

  37. cbrooklyn

    ok..i dislike duhon..but i think im disliking D’ANPHONI even more at this point..he leaves duhon in for three quarters until we’re BLOWN out the building..then he puts douglas in, AND MAKES HIM GUARD KOBE!!!..smh…

  38. SeeWhyDee77

    ah..there’s the Knicks I’ve grown to loathe this season…at least we’re gettin blown out by the defending champs and not GS or Milwaukee

  39. David Crockett

    Sometimes people get a little *too* hard core about Gallo’s minutes and touches. It ain’t like he’s Bernard King, but seriously D’Antoni. Why is Jared Jeffries on the floor?

  40. tastycakes

    Wow, I didn’t realize we had the second worst winning percentage (ahead of Charlotte) over the past decade.

  41. Ted Nelson

    I think it’s the touches more than the minutes, although the minutes have generally been a problem. Why has Wilson Chandler taken almost twice as many FGAs as any other Knick? The guy is a poor shooter and has been so his entire career, yet he has almost as many shots outside the paint tonight (8) as any other player has shots period (9). At least Al Harrington when Al Harrington jacks up a bunch of shots he generally scores efficiently.

  42. Ted Nelson

    haha… our scrubs are better than the Lakers scrubs… at least we can take something to boost our pride from this nightmare

  43. jon abbey

    it continues to amaze me how undisciplined and lazy this team is on offense. they settle for the first crappy shot that becomes available, and NO ONE MOVES WITHOUT THE BALL. everyone wants Gallo to get more touches, but the dude just stands in the corner most of the time.

    also, it’s pretty clear that D’Antoni could care less about winning or losing, given his rotation decisions (burying Nate tonight after he started out hot, burying Douglas for multiple games, etc, etc). I’m not sure why any of us should care any more than he seems to.

  44. Ted Nelson

    “they settle for the first crappy shot that becomes available”

    That’s what they in the business call seven seconds or less, aka D’Antoni’s revolutionary coaching style…

  45. jon abbey

    the shots were a lot higher percentage in Phoenix, but it’s looking more and more like that was more about Nash than it was D’Antoni.

  46. Sandy

    please, look at the players, don’t dump on several great years in Phoenix because he is struggling with crappy players for a year and change in ny

  47. jon abbey

    Sandy, I watched that Phoenix team a lot. I just can’t believe how inept this team is offensively, their personnel is not nearly as bad as they’re playing (this is also a factor of who has been playing, to be fair).

  48. Ted Nelson

    “the shots were a lot higher percentage in Phoenix, but it’s looking more and more like that was more about Nash than it was D’Antoni.”

    Agree. Not only Nash, but Amare, Marion, Johnson, Barbosa, Diaw, etc. He had great personnel.

    “please, look at the players, don’t dump on several great years in Phoenix because he is struggling with crappy players for a year and change in ny”

    Sandy, I absolutely am looking at the players. The players have had a whole, whole lot to do with making D’Antoni look terrible in Denver, great in Phoenix, and terrible again in NY. Give anyone with half a brain those Phoenix teams and they’re going to win a whole lot of games. It really helped that it was primarily an offensive team and D’Antoni is primarily an offensive coach, but a similar (probably less talented) Phoenix team is flying high again with another coach. The big question is how much of a difference any NBA coach makes… Personally I saw some, but not nearly as much as the average fan/pundit credits them with.

  49. Ted Nelson

    This season the Knicks have definitely underachieved, though. The shot distribution has been terrible. Chandler, Duhon, and Hughes accounted for 42% of the Knicks shots tonight. That’s on the coach, to me. The biggest value of a coach, IMO, is making sure that the best players are on the floor and the ball is finding its way into the hands of the best scorers. D’Antoni has largely failed on both counts this season.

  50. Robert Silverman

    On a positive note, even though it was during extended “gar-bage” time (as Marv so eloquently put it way back when), Hill looked good. He altered shots, played Bynum better’n anyone else on the roster, finished well at the basket, and didn’t settle for perimeter shots.

    Toney Douglas had a nice stretch as well.

    So there’s that…

    Lawdy, I hate Kobe tho. Lemme tellya

  51. rohank

    Hill and Douglas looked great tonight. The one thing I cringed at about Hill though was the following: To borrow from ESPN’s Gregg Easterbrook (TMQ), Sweet & Sour #1:

    Hill said he really wants to learn more and get better by asking questions, so he’s always running over to the coach during timeouts and such. That was sweet. He also mentioned asking Al Harrington and Jared Jeffries for advice. That was sour.

  52. totti

    Ok, Lakers are much much better, but watching all those ill shots from duhon chandler make me sick. It cannot be a real nba team! Hey Duhon, why don’t you kill yourself? Hey Chandler, ask for a trade! Hey d’antoni, you really really suck. Play the young plus lee and nate. Sorry for al, he’s a good guy not sharing the ball.

  53. BigBlueAL

    “The biggest value of a coach, IMO, is making sure that the best players are on the floor and the ball is finding its way into the hands of the best scorers.”

    You know its funny because under Van Gundy the Knicks were excellent defensively but pretty bad offensively (although mostly due to pace) yet that was Van Gundy’s basic offensive plan. Come hell or high water the guys who are going to have plays called for them and take the shots were always Houston, Spree, Ewing etc. It was mostly a post-up, isolation oriented offense but the reason those teams were so tough to beat late in games was because the best players on the team were the ones deciding the games. You didnt see Ward or Childs come up the court and just jack up a shot.

    I know I have heard him mention this many times about shot distribution and how the best players on the team should take the most shots period. It really sounds like such a basic offensive strategy but one that does makes the most sense….

  54. irvin

    Why does Gallo stand somewhere behind the arc waiting for a pass that never comes? The guy shows a lot of promise, but he has to RUN, instead of endlessly waiting for his temmates to find him – the net effect is that whjoeve guards him doesn’t need to work: they just stand there next to each other and the Knicks are playing with 4 guys. Somebody show this guy a Reggie Miller tape, for God’s sake!

    I put the blame on D’Antoni – his substitution patterns, his addiction to Duhon and his benching of the young players can’t be excused. I”m not saying the Knicks are a good team; I’m saying they are vastly underachieving, mostly because the coaching is horrendous. There is no strategy other than shooting at the first opportunity – regardless of shot quality. That’s why they can compete for a while – when the shots are going in or the other team plays really bad – but eventually they fall behind by a lot very quickly.

    That’s called BAD COACHING.

  55. mase

    holy crap!
    Arrest is quoted as saying 2010 free agents are scared of signing in from NY because of the scrutiny of the Fans and media!

    We are pretty rough I must admit

  56. Owen

    Why did Lee only play 20 minutes? Did we go “small?”

    And is Jordan Hill going to shock we stat gurus?

  57. Sandy

    i agree the D’Antoni it to blame for the shot distribution on the floor. but at the same time, the looks Duhon is getting are wide open looks. a lot of which he would have buried last year and if he doesn’t bury now, will close down other parts of our offense. And while Gallo does deserve more shots, he was incredibly passive on the offensive end last night and had a tough time creating off the dribble against artest. I def agree about chandler though. dude needs to pass. several times he was one pass away from an open Gallo and chucked it.

  58. totti

    A couple of things: good post irvin, we’re on the same wavelenght and i apologize for suggesting duhon to kill himself, i was just tired and disappointed, you know staying up all night and see the team playing like a children team…So duhon forgive me don’t kill yourself….maybe you can brake an arm or a leg, for the sake of team!!!

  59. BK

    Owen, I made note of this in my own recap, but the four guys who got major minutes against Boston got only 20+ minutes apiece last night. I personally think that the coach made a determination that he would yank his starters quickly if the game got out of hand, because of the (more winnable) Kings game tonight. One of those “unwritten” NBA secrets of the schedule that was blatantly obvious to anyone watching.

    Duhon is getting the Jeffries treatment at this point (sorry if that was mentioned somewhere else here and I didn’t see it) — it’s clear he has so little confidence in his shot and teams are letting him shoot. I don’t have a problem with the coaches telling him to take the shot (up to a point) because he’s made those shots in the past and because he’s wide open, but he just can’t make them.

    My biggest disappointment remains with Walsh, because he had lunch everyday with his coach last year and knows the coach values playmaking over heads-down scoring, and couldn’t even produce a Jason Williams as a second PG. I like Toney Douglas but DraftXpress had him (and I quote) “ranked dead last among draft-eligible PGs in passing metrics”. So we’ve got two Nates as “backup” PGs (and Douglas isn’t even as good as Nate at finding teammates).

    Must read: the latest piece at hoopdata talks about positional identity crises and the way certain players shoot relative to the norm for their position. One of their case studies is Wilson Chandler:

    http://www.hoopdata.com/recent.aspx?aid=49

    “Wilson Chandler’s shot profile hasn’t changed much this year compared to last. His mid-range game continues to be non-existent but he equally distributes his shots between the rim, long jumpers, and threes much like the typical point guard does. His effective shooting percentage has dipped largely due to some struggles behind the arc and currently his APER sits just below replacement-level. As athletic as he is, it’s disappointing that he has one of the lowest FTA/FGA rates for regulars at his position. He’ll need to attack the basket more if he wants to take the next step. He may be 6’8” but his scoring profile suggests he’s much shorter and less athletic.”

  60. d-mar

    Please, D”Antoni, let Douglas and Hill play more minutes! They both play defense as well as anyone else on the Knicks (I like the way Hill challenged Bynum a few times last night) so what do you have to lose? Duhon’s “floor leadership”? Does that include never finishing a layup and missing every 3 he takes? I’ll trade the occasional Duhon pass for an easy pick and roll basket for Lee for Douglas’ superior shooting and finishing around the basket. And he’s a better defender than Duhon. And as someone else noted earlier, why does he yank Nate when he was sparking the offense? I’ve been a staunch D’Antoni defender, but I’ve really had it with this absurd loyalty to Duhon. ENOUGH!!!!

  61. Sandy

    IMO, this is the only way the Knicks stay relevant in the playoff chase.

    Next Six Games

    Sacramento
    Denver
    Orlando
    Phoenix
    Orlando
    Atlanta

    Of these 3, they need to sneak out 3 wins. I think they can beat Sacramento, Phoenix (maybe the guys play hard for their coach), and maybe Atlanta. That puts them at 6-14.

    Following Seven Games

    New Jersey
    Portland
    New Orleans
    Charlotte
    Chicago
    L.A. Clippers
    Charlotte
    Chicago

    Here is where the Knicks need to get hot. Its a relatively easy part of the schedule. If they can win 7 of the 8, dropping the game to Portland, that puts them at 13-15, and back in the conversation. Even then, we will be off pace for the 8th spot. If we can’t get hot then, the season is over and we can start giving our young guns more time.

  62. jon abbey

    Sandy, our season was over before it started, but if it takes you a few more weeks to come to terms with that, ok.

  63. Ted Nelson

    irvin,
    The thing is that we don’t know what Danilo’s instructions are. He may be doing exactly what he’s been told by his coach (I would guess he is, in fact, since all indications are that he’s coachable and has a high b-ball IQ). The coach has to have some control over what’s going on and at some point has to at least be able to make a change if he doesn’t like what he’s seeing.
    I do hate how much emphasis NBA teams put on “creating your own shot” and how little they put on actually coaching and running a coherent/cohesive offense. Move the ball, move some people, and get an open shot. I suppose that is easier said than done against NBA defenses, but it’s possible.
    A big problem for D’Antoni is that he overvalues the veterans he has on the team (he’s gone as far as to say this is a playoff team if Nate Robinson weren’t immature…), probably because he doesn’t have a great understanding of advanced statistical analysis and some of his vets score at a decent volume and are visually appealing players. He was a terrible GM in Phoenix. That’s just my guess, who knows.

    Owen,
    Would be nice if Hill would get a few more minutes so we could find out. You know, god forbid, put two bigmen on the floor… simultaneously.

    Sandy,
    D’Antoni is also to blame for Duhon still being out there. I have no idea what’s wrong with Duhon, but clearly something is wrong with the guy. If it’s his fault bench him and if it’s something he has no control over (a personal matter, injury, depression, etc.) send him home for a few days. I have a hard time believing that this is just a string of 14 unlucky games in a row.

    “he was incredibly passive on the offensive end last night and had a tough time creating off the dribble against artest. I def agree about chandler though. dude needs to pass. several times he was one pass away from an open Gallo and chucked it.”

    There’s a fine line between passive and selective. Danilo might pass up a tough shot with time left on the shot clock in the hopes that the offense will work together and create a better shot. You know, perhaps he was actually taught to play the game correctly… Then maybe someone else (almost definitely a worse shooter) promptly jacks up a 3.
    This is my big problem with D’Antoni. Part of it is beating myself up for being stupid. I assumed that because of his offensive success in Phoenix and the great passers he had there that his was a motion offense. However, it seems now that the motion is mainly getting up and down the court fast and that the quick ball movement was largely installed by the personnel he had on those teams. I just don’t see how anyone can think it’s a sound strategy to take a team of chuckers and actively encourage them to take the first shot they can (yet he seems to be the second straight Knicks coach to cling to that offensive philosophy). That falls on D’Antoni, but also on Walsh for buying into the D’Antoni hype and not figuring out if the guy can coach beyond, “play D, get the rebound, get the ball to Nash, run up the court, and shoot if Nash or Johnson or Diaw or Hill or Barbosa passes you the ball.”

  64. Jafa

    “Sandy, our season was over before it started, but if it takes you a few more weeks to come to terms with that, ok.” – jon abbey.

    Jon, that was the absolute best thing I read on this whole thread. It hurts, but its true.

  65. Sandy

    yea, i have duhon’s back because I think he is as close to a playmaker as we have. but, ur right, at some point we have to start understanding whether this is the duhon we will have for the season. i just can’t get too excited about our backup prospects. i don’t see douglass growing into a distrubutor because of his anemic passing numbers and we all know nate’s problems. i wish someone would just get Duhon doing what he was at the beginning of last year. maybe he needs a psychologist.

  66. Nick C.

    “There’s a fine line between passive and selective. Danilo might pass up a tough shot with time left on the shot clock in the hopes that the offense will work together and create a better shot. You know, perhaps he was actually taught to play the game correctly… Then maybe someone else (almost definitely a worse shooter) promptly jacks up a 3.”

    Ted, and this may be esoteric, while all that you say above is true IMHO, do you think that at some point if he knows he’s on the court w/ lesser shooters to some extent he has to take those shots (or some of them)? I think he does but its probably a slippery slope.

  67. Ted Nelson

    BK,

    Nate is actually about as good of a playmaker as Duhon. Duhon has always been low assist/ high TO, but his value lay in unselfishness/b-ball IQ, good outside shooting, and defense. Nate has a tendency to dominate the ball, but if D’Antoni named him the primary PG I don’t think the offense would be any worse off than with Duhon. Even if Duhon were playing well I think that would be the case. The way he’s playing I have little doubt. Of course, Nate started slowly, too, but might have it together now.

    “the four guys who got major minutes against Boston got only 20+ minutes apiece last night.”

    Good point about resting them for Sacramento, but 3 of those guys were also a combined 7-25 for 15 points against the Lakers. Lee also getting benched probably makes you right, which worries me because it means that Duhon, Hughes, and Harrington might have been allowed to go 14-50 for 30 points if the Knicks weren’t playing tonight. Harrington’s the only one I really have much faith in to turn around a bad shooting night at this point. Hughes has been a pleasant surprise, but he’s got to regress to the mean at some point. He still has value on the defensive side and as a good playmaker for an off-guard.

    “As athletic as he is, it’s disappointing that he has one of the lowest FTA/FGA rates for regulars at his position. He’ll need to attack the basket more if he wants to take the next step. He may be 6’8” but his scoring profile suggests he’s much shorter and less athletic.”

    Very interesting piece, thanks for the link. Hardly news to Knicks fans, though. The back-to-back wins he seemed to be getting it. Especially against the Nets, where he took only one shot outside the paint (outside of zero feet, actually) and had as many FTAs as FGAs. Against Indy it was more just that his outside shots were falling.

    “knows the coach values playmaking over heads-down scoring”

    It’s very hard to make that statement watching the way the Knicks play. He constantly rewards the heads-down scorers with more minutes and more shots. If he doesn’t value what they are doing he should probably tell them to stop. Some of his best players in Phoenix (Nash, Hill, Johnson, Diaw, Barbosa to some extent) just happened to be good playmakers. I think he does value heads-down scoring, as it’s the pillar of his offensive system and exactly what two of his top scorers in Phoenix (Amare and Marion) made their living doing. Certainly Walsh has failed to find strong playmakers, but D’Antoni’s seemed very on board with questionable playmaking calls like signing Duhon to be the starting PG and drafting Douglas.
    Interestingly, Lee has really developed as a playmaker this season. His assist rate is 14.9, well above his career mark of 9 and career high of 10.2.

  68. Nick C.

    As much as it kills me to say it, in the limited chances i’ve seen Nate seems to be making the best entry passes to Curry. That’s interestign about Lee. I checked Gallo, who had a nice give and go early in the game with Lee, and while he seems to be the only one ever making the simple but astute pass, his asisst rate is 8.6. Maybe it’s just a function of the recipients have to make the shots for Gallo to get an assist. :-)

  69. Ted Nelson

    Sandy,

    Yeah Duhon is the Knicks best playmaker, but I don’t think the offense would skip a beat with Hughes or Nate as the starting PG (it’s already ranked 26th in the league right now, so there’s not much room to get worse). Especially with Nate AND Hughes in the backcourt together. Douglas is an interesting case, because he was a SG in college, looked like a good playmaker in Summer League, and hasn’t created for anyone else so far in the regular season. Maybe it’s just in his nature to look to score, but maybe it’s the role he’s been assigned and he’ll develop more as a playmaker as he gets comfortable in the NBA.

    Nick C.,

    Good point. In a perfect world he’d play on a good team, but on these Knicks he may have to force the issue a little.

    Yeah, Gallo’s playmaking seems to come in fits and spurts (is that the expression?). He certainly has the ability, so we’ll have to see if he can do it consistently. As everyone’s been saying, if this remains a bottom 5 offense much longer you just have to start running the offense through Gallo and see what he’s got.

  70. astrasberg

    Do you really think a different coach is the difference between this team winning and this team losing?

    Which coach would that be?

    Who could win with this group of players?

    This is a bad team. Is Phil Jackson a genius? Or did he win with Jordan and Kobe? What about Pat Riley? Give D’Antoni a break, this team is bad, but it’s only 14 games into the season.

    There are no quick fixes, no silver bullets, this is a process that will take time. D’Antoni can win with the right set of players, no one could win with these guys.

  71. Owen

    “it’s disappointing that he (Chandler) has one of the lowest FTA/FGA rates for regulars at his position.”

    Where have I heard that before?

    As for Hill, I can’t wait to be wrong about him…

  72. Sandy

    astrasberg,

    I definitely agree with you but i don’t think anyone is advocating a coaching change. i think what most people want is for D’Antoni to stress ball movement, a quick leash on selfish players who cannot shoot, and consistent minutes for our rookies. these are things he will do eventually. i do agree, though, that few coaches would be able to extract a 35 win season from this team. in fact I thought last years 32 win season was a pleasant surprise. but our team should, at the very least, get close to that win total with a roster that has had time to develop chemistry and the addition of a few bigs. otherwise, it certainly will have been a disappointing season from a player and coaching standpoint.

  73. jon abbey

    I’d be happy with seeing Gallinari running off a pick once in a while. whoever said above he should be watching Reggie Miller films was dead on.

  74. Robert Silverman

    Anyone else get vaguely nauseated watching Spike and Reggie yukking it up last night? I was half-hoping that whilst plugging their film, Reggie would have said something to the effect of, “Yeah, we had a really good documentary going for the first 3/4 of the movie, but then, in the last quarter of shooting, Spike…well…he choked. Just choked it away,” and then made the throat-slitting gestured, followed by Spike getting out of his seat and doing that, “What? What?” gesture.

    That would have been money.

  75. Z

    “is Jordan Hill going to shock we stat gurus?”

    His minutes have largely come during garbage time, when he’s put in to punish the regular usual suspects. He has certainly been productive during those times, but I’d say stat gurus still have a lot of time before they have to eat the pie on him.

    From a non-stat guru perspective, I’m still with you guys. He seems to me to lack intensity. Even when he gets extended PT it doesn’t seem like he breaks much of a sweat. I was hoping that since he was drafted for his size, he would be a bit more of a presence out there, especially as a hungry rookie. Think a taller, more ferocious Renaldo Balkman who can shoot the 15 footer.

    But what I see is a taller, less energetic Renaldo Balkman who can shoot the 15 footer.

    And I’ll take the energy over the 15 footer any day.

  76. Sandy

    “Anyone else get vaguely nauseated watching Spike and Reggie yukking”

    yes. especially R. Miller calling out Knicks fans. F*ck him.

  77. BK

    Ted, I plan to write an entry on my own site about the performance of the coach, but it’s fair to say that you and I are on different ends of the spectrum regarding his abilities and performance. That’s cool — I think he does deserve criticism and he would be the first to admit he’s underachieved in getting the most out of this group. It’s arguable that other coaches (Skiles, Popovich, one or two others) would get more out of this Knick lineup at this stage.

    I still don’t know how you saw a “motion offense” in Phoenix or how you think he values chucking at every opportunity, just because that’s what the current team is doing. I’ve watched him for years (in both Phoenix and NY) and seen him tinker with his lineups enough to see that he doesn’t want one-on-one heads down play unless there are obvious mismatches to be exploited and/or the pace can be pushed, and he’s very partial to a point guard and/or multi-position players with playmaking ability. But he hasn’t had much of a choice with these Knicks — if he wants offense, he’s got to let Harrington or Nate take it one on one, because that’s how they operate, and the pick and roll/post-up games he ran with such success in Phoenix can only be used so much with the personnel he has. That’s not the same as saying that Harrington and Nate represent the way he likes to run an offense.

    (Also, maybe we have different ways of using the term “heads-down scorer”, because over 60 percent of Amare and Marion’s shots inside were assisted in D’Antoni’s last season; the equivalent numbers for Al and Nate last season were closer to 30 percent. Those four players may have similar tunnel vision, but D’Antoni prefers his scorers, heads down or not, to get their shots from ball movement, not going one-on-one).

    You say that D’Antoni was on board for some of the bad decisions in both Phoenix and NY (which I agree with) but that he was given a lineup that “just happened” to be good playmakers. Really? And yet you don’t want to credit him for turning players like Lee or Diaw into good playmaking forwards? I can’t really go along with trying to have it both ways — that the coach deserves the blame for bad players doing bad things, but that the good things the players do just “happen”, and the coach was lucky enough to inherit them.

    The selection of Duhon was sound when Duhon played well for the first half of last year, and fell apart when Duhon couldn’t hold up. The evolution of Lee to more of a playmaking forward that can initiate the offense (which you pointed out) also makes the case for D’Antoni favoring a certain type of skillset. But the coach can’t make people into playmakers that don’t have the IQ (or just aren’t good players period). D’Antoni’s been quoted as saying he likes to have players who “get it” and don’t require a lot of micromanaging on the court — so he’s a coach that does better with good players that he can unleash with certain principles to running a potent offense and a passable defense (his Phoenix teams were better defensively than the current version being coached by his assistant).

    If that isn’t your type of coach (because let’s face it, this group of expiring contracts isn’t his kind of team), I understand that perfectly and respect that position. I think he’s struggling with this group but is still in the top tier of coaches to run a team with more talent as the 2010 team is expected to be. Many fans are frustrated and feel he’s being “exposed” with what’s happening at present. But Walsh is being exposed too, because it’s his scouts and group that were the engine for every draft and free agent decision and non-decision, and the Knick team right now is a very mismatched group of players that even with the best coach would struggle to get 30 wins.

  78. BigBlueAL

    Berman’s dream backcourt would be Marbury and Iverson. Ask Larry Brown how that worked out in the 2004 Olympics.

  79. SeeWhyDee77

    I know i’m gonna be on thin ice with this, but I don’t see why we’re so pumped up about Douglas. He’s great defensively, we drafted him to be a possible PG of the future and he did look good in summer league-but all this guy does is score when he enters the game. I may be wrong about this b/c maybe D’Antoni puts him in the game to be a scorer, but I haven’t seen him move the ball or find guys within the offense all season. Part of me thinks that we’ve been seduced by the couple of nice scoring games that he’s had so far. Look at the box scores-where’s the assists? That may be the reason why Duhon still gets so much PT. Regardless, I think D’Antoni owes it to us to play the rooks more. My fear is what if we get to a point where we have no choice but to play Hill and Douglas and they are nowhere near ready. It’s very possible, everybody in front of Hill (Lee and Harrington basically) are in the last year of their deals..and ditto for Douglas. On top of that, our best interior defender gets no PT. I’d say D’Antoni is doing a questionable at best job at coaching, regardless of the talent level he has to work with. I know the big FA’s would love playing for D’Antoni, but if he doesn’t do a better job (especially with the defense), we may all be chanting “Fire D’Antoni”-LBJ or not. He can at least lose one of the guys on his staff and hire a defensive specialist, or at least use Herb Williams as the defensive specialist on the staff. And not just give him a token 5 minutes to teach during practice either.

  80. totti

    Gallo moved his body on the court in a very different way 2yrs ago in europe. First, he was maybe a couple of inches shorter. Second, he did not have the back injury. The thing of him that captured my soul was his intangibles at the venerable age of 18, then his allround skills. i think that he is healed, still far from being completely recovered. He can’t push his body at full throttle so far. He will improve, little by little, no matter all this mess surrounding him at this moment. He will get his experiences, like to be blocked by some big men, to be stealed of the ball by artest or pierce, shooting airballs instead of driving to the rim, got frozen out by the rest of team etc… At the end he will be a knicks for the years to come always honouring the jersey. All those struggling and injuries problem will make him only mentally stronger. As for me, well, i’ll be up this night too, only to watch his game vs sacramento.

  81. tastycakes

    BK, well said.

    I just hope this year doesn’t turn out so badly that Donnie feels pressured into removing D’antoni. Mike should get another shot after the 2010 free agent bonanza.

  82. SJK

    Okay, I really hate to say this because I like to be optimistic, but what if there is no free agent bonanza?

  83. BigBlueAL

    Well there could still be the off-season of 2011, plus having all that cap room also makes it alot easier to make big trades so all would not be lost.

    Its been tough now but still the plan of getting all this cap space for next year was still the right way to go considering the horrible roster Isiah put together.

  84. totti

    It can turn out even worse if you think about….15/20 wins given this roster. It’s just like a sacrifice before redemption

  85. Thomas B.

    Berman’s dream backcourt would be Marbury and Iverson. Ask Larry Brown how that worked out in the 2004 Olympics.

    Yeah it sucked in the 2001 All star game too…oh no wait it didn’t.

    2004? was that not the year marbury set some kind of olympic scoring record?

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