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Wednesday, November 26, 2014

On Cloud Nine

The lottery has passed, and it really could not have gone much better for the Knicks fans than what transpired Tuesday night.

The order?

1. Portland
2. Seattle
3. Atlanta
4. Memphis
5. Boston
6. Milwaukee
7. Minnesota
8. Charlotte
9. Chicago
10. Sacramento
11. Atlanta
12. Philadelphia
13. New Orleans
14. L.A. Clippers

Not only do the Bulls stay put at #9, but the Celtics dramatically fell to FIFTH in the draft, the worst POSSIBLE scenario for Boston, which, actually, as much as I didn’t want Oden or Durant in the Knicks’ division, I still felt kinda bad for the Celtics. I mean, FIFTH?!? That’s rough.

Not as rough as Memphis, which really didn’t even tank this season, and yet fell all the way to FOURTH.

Atlanta made out like a bandit, sneaking up one spot to avoid giving their pick to Phoenix, but also seeing Indiana FAIL to move up, thereby giving Atlanta’ Indiana’s pick. That is huge for Atlanta. However, as someone (Hollinger?) joked, they will probably use both picks on 6’9″ swing men.

Good night for Knicks fans, even if most of the “joy” comes from sour grapes.

40 comments on “On Cloud Nine

  1. Vicks

    Number 9 and Tyrus Thomas for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis?

    Neither team hurt themselves.

    The Eddy putback at seasons end in Charlotte kept the Bulls from ending up in that number 5 spot…which would have seen them jump.

    I’m sure Paxson is shaking his head at that one.

  2. Lefty

    O.K. so assuming Portland takes Ogden then Seattle takes Durant and lets R. Lewis go in a sign and trade. Assuming R. Lewis wants approx. 15Mil then how about: N.Robinson, Q Rich, M Rose and our pick for R. Lewis. Seattle gets a hometown hero, a great six man in Q and Malik gives them leadership till his salary comes off, oh and another draft pick. We get a real SF. Thoughts?

  3. jon abbey

    “Number 9 and Tyrus Thomas for Eddy Curry and Antonio Davis?”

    this should be #9 and Thomas for Curry, Balkman (acquired for Davis) and the #23 pick.

  4. JK47

    “I still felt kinda bad for the Celtics. I mean, FIFTH?!? That?s rough.”

    Feel bad for the Celtics? They got exactly what they deserved for tanking the season. Now they’ve disgraced their storied franchise, all for the right to draft Al Horford.

    Good going.

  5. Ted

    With Nate and Q, and (m rose and 23rd pick)I think we’re giving up too much for Rashard. the more I see these trade senario’s the more I’m convinced we need to stay pat unless we get a superstar, Rashard is not that.

    Yes I would swing for Oneil or Garnett. But if we are healthy we would do great with out team. If we trade we have to be careful not to give up too much for too little.

    Isiah has been doing great with that. Now we just need our health and another year or two.

  6. JK47

    Rashard Lewis? Meh. He doesn’t really solve any of our problems. This team needs a big, burly shot blocker, a player who’s going to be a force inside. Rashard Lewis is just another guy who needs the ball all the time to be an effective player, making him a bad fit for the Knicks. Which probably means he’ll be in orange and blue next yer.

  7. aug

    only solution is KG and we can’t get him with the assets we have. We’ll have better luck relying on Thomas’ drafting ability and trading that player after he does well during the year for a player we need.

  8. Caleb

    If you’re analyzing the Curry trade, we didn’t give up Tyrus Thomas – we gave up the #2 pick, which could have been Aldridge or Roy (or Paul Millsap). Not sure who will turn out the best, or who we would have taken – I’m just sayin’!

    I still think the Bulls win, but not in the rout it could have been.

  9. Kevin

    Caleb is getting closer. The Knicks unloaded Tim Thomas and Sweetney too. Thomas could have been moved to Toronto.

    Issues aside, the Knicks with Curry as opposed to Aldridge (or Tyrus Thomas & Kryhapa) would have won fewer games and moved up in the lottery. The number nine was the worst possible pick the issue is what record would the Knick have finished with and where would they have drafted. Now that we have crushed the butterfly, we will never know.

  10. DS

    It should be noted that Hibbert is out of the draft now. The Bulls must have been looking at him. I think I’m enjoying this too much.

    Also, it’s good that the Bucks did not land a top pick. I think they would have looked pretty scary with either of the top 2 in the fold.

  11. sean

    Kryhapa what are u talking about he was trade to Chicago from Denver. Paul Millsap was a second round pick people please pay attention. This trade only involves Tyrus Thomas who was who the Knicks would have taken if They had the Number 2 pick. How do I know this They weren’t gonna draft another Channing Frye este player like Aldridge and Thomas loves atlethics player hense it would have been tyrus thomas we drafted anyway

  12. sean

    An we cant include Balkman in this discussion even though we traded antonio to get his pick

  13. Dan Panorama

    Has anyone considered going the opposite route and picking twice in this draft? There are a bunch of shooters in the 23 area who would help us, but if we trade someone like Nate for a late draft pick we could also make room for a prospect like Sean Williams who’s worth a look at as a defensive complement to Curry.

  14. jon abbey

    I don’t think you could get a first round pick in this draft for Nate, it’s too deep with big men.

    and am I the only one who thinks we need to figure out a way to get a real PG, young or old, first and foremost?

  15. mase

    jon,
    I would agree PG is the biggest need except that Collins has shown signs and has the backup spot pretty much locked, plus Marbury looked was starting to look like the real deal…SG might be a bigger need.

    Does anyone think Steve Francis might be helpful on Utah(i’m trying to start a rumor mill)?

  16. mase

    “Marbury and Crawford are both better at SG than PG”

    not sure a lot of people would agree with you…Crawford is a decent PG in fast break offense and Marbury just had the best season of his career at PG.

  17. sean

    what are you guys smoking Marbury scarifice his games since hes been here to play a traditional point guard an when hes in the game the Knicks dont turn the ball over nearly as much as they do with anyone else at the point

  18. sean

    we need a shooter crawford and marbury are both streaky Richardson is always hurt that only leaves lil Nate as a shooter. An hes trigger happy

  19. jon abbey

    “Marbury just had the best season of his career at PG.”

    he doesn’t really distribute, though, and he has much more success guarding SGs than he does PGs.

  20. sean

    an Sean Williams honestly is probably gonna go undrafted he played in the weak ACC doesnt rebound well an average 5 blks a game in 15 games. Sure the 5 blks a games looks good but folks this kid will never be more than Steven Hunter, or maybe best case
    Keyon Clark

  21. sean

    oh did i forget to mention Almond has a 6’10 wingspan @ 6’6 thats almost impressive as Renaldo Balkman’s 6’8 with a 7’1 wingspan

  22. sean

    Jon What he doesn’t distribute? the offense calls for getting Curry the ball at all cost theres not a whole lot of distribution called for in this offense. Its pretty much inside out get the ball to the inside either curry scores or he kicks it back out. That why its so important for curry to work on his passing abilities. Where Marbury is best as a PG is in a offense where he penetrates breaks down the defense then dishes.(like most PG in this league)An lets not forget hes been playing on too bad legs this year, plus he only guards two guards because crawfords not a good defender

  23. sean

    Jon What he doesn?t distribute? the offense calls for getting Curry the ball at all cost theres not a whole lot of distribution called for in this offense. Its pretty much inside out get the ball to the inside either curry scores or he kicks it back out. That why its so important for curry to work on his passing abilities. Where Marbury is best as a PG is in a offense where he penetrates breaks down the defense then dishes.(like most PG in this league)An lets not forget hes been playing on too bad legs this year, plus he only guards two guards because crawfords not a good defender

  24. Bulls_Fan

    hey guys…since I’ve been a pest and intruder on your board all year wanted to be a man and show up to say that I’m completely depressed about the draft lottery. I can’t f—g believe Curry made that three pointer in Milwaukee to send the game into overtime…or the tip in in Charlotte.

    All the best and good luck next year.

  25. caleb

    Appreciate the thought, BF.

    I agree with Jon Abbey that Marbury (and Francis) would look better at SG, especially as they get older, and the league gets smaler and quicker, overall. Mardy Collins? Fughetit. Maybe a defensive role-player, if we’re lucky.

    So yeah, in theory we should look hard at PGs, but in practice, I don’t see anyone in our range, who would be an upgrade. Maybe Crittenden, but I saw him play a lot this year and I don’t think he’s gonna be a great pro. Next year might bring better options – Ty Lawson or Darren Collison would look great in orange and blue.

    The more I look, I don’t know if there’s anyone at 23 who would be an immediate upgrade – they’d just sit on the bench for two years while we wait for bad contracts to run out. I’d rather see us:

    a) try and package the pick and a player (anyone but David Lee) to move into the top 10 or 12, where there’s real quality

    b) take a flyer on a high-risk, high-reward guy like Williams…

    c) take someone we leave in Europe for a few years, like Tomic who everyone says will be great if he can eat enough to avoid looking like an anorexic…

    d) swap the pick for a 2008 pick, when there might be a better point guard available… plus, they’d get PT a year sooner.

  26. jon abbey

    on one hand, from the simulations, it doesn’t look like there will be too much left at 23. on the other hand, Isiah unearthed Balkman at 20 last year in a far, far thinner draft, so I’m very eager (yes, eager) to see what he does here.

    Lawson or Collison, both very exciting. how far down is our pick protected next year? tanking is something I feel like we could really excel at, although maybe they’d even mess that up and make the playoffs somehow. :)

    “I agree with Jon Abbey that Marbury (and Francis) would look better at SG”

    I think Francis would look best in another uniform or street clothes, he needs to be sent home like Tim Thomas and only recalled in case of emergency, like he was this past season, next year he’ll actually be a trade chip. statistics don’t seem to come close to capturing what a cancer that guy is, I don’t want to ever see him in a NY uniform again.

  27. Caleb

    I forget exactly, but it’s definitely protected into the 20s.. I don’t think we’ll be giving it up until protection runs out in 2010 (?)

    It’s hard to predict a draft this far out, but if I had to, Lawson will be a top-10 pick – hopefully too high for us – but for some reason Collison doesn’t have much buzz.

    re: Francis, Option A is see if another team – like Houston, Minny, LAL – is stupid or desperate enough to take him in a trade where we don’t take back a longer contract. But that seems pretty unlikely.

    I agree – he’s a complete jerk. But if he’s willing to make an effort, not stand on the court filing his nails while the other team’s fast-break is underway, he’s a useful rotation guy. If he can’t be bothered, send him home on the Tim Thomas/Anfernee Hardaway R&R program. I’d rather just wait until he comes off the cap, than reward him by giving him a buyout.

  28. jon abbey

    yeah, I wouldn’t buy him out either. this year, he’s a very mildly valuable trade chip for a team wanting to shed long-term salaries (O’Neal/Tinsley?), but next year he’ll be decidedly more valuable in his last year. I just don’t want him poisoning the atmosphere by staying with the team.

  29. mase

    “Mardy Collins? Fughetit. Maybe a defensive role-player, if we?re lucky. ”

    …I saw him take over games with an array of offensive moves(drives, good passer, he’s excellent at absorbing contact and can finish like a veteran). Also, he can play lock-down defense but needs to improve his outside shooting. He was just as impressive as Balkman this season which is why I support any trade with a team willing to take some of our vets(specifically Francis and JJ) for picks.

    I repeat for the record I do not want O’neal or KG or Lewis, maybe Pau. We could really have a good team with the core of of 1st or 2nd year players if drafted by Isiah.

  30. xduckshoex

    I don’t think Collins was anywhere near as effective as Balkman was. He used too many possessions and didn’t do much good with them. Of all the players on the Knicks who played 15 mpg or more, Collins was the absolute worst.

  31. Caleb

    Sorry… the full Collins line:

    FG 38%
    3-pt 27%
    FT 58%
    Asst/TO 1.5/1

    Can you honestly call that an NBA-level point guard?

    I agree he has some value as a defensive player, but would have to be Dikembe Mutombo in his prime to be even an average starter.

  32. Kdun

    What about Collin’s stats when he started in April?

    14.8 points, 6.7 rebounds, 5.8 assists, 2 steals. Sure the 4 turnovers has to be improved, but for a guy who sat for most of the season before seeing extended minutes at the end of the season, a few turnovers is expected.

    April 7 – 19 pts, 12 rebs, 8 assists, 5 steals
    April 15 – 12 pts, 8 rebs, 11 assists, 3 steals
    April 16 – 23 points, 10 rebs, 7 assists, 2 steals, 2 TOs, 9-12 FT

    Collins stats for the entire 82 game season are poo, but a 22 year old that can play perimeter defense, rebound, distribute, and get to the line = NBA-level point guard. When Steph’s gone, I think Collins has a 50/50 chance of taking over the starting spot.

  33. Gmal

    Mardy’s april stats where good considering the
    the other injuries to the team. I think he caught some teams by surprise but next season he will have to come up with a consistant outside shot, I’m not worried about the t/o’s at this stage. The late talk about getting Vince, Oneal etc shows that Isiah has tipped his hand here that he is comfortable about the pg spot. Of all the names out there I like Vince as the best fit.
    I agree, this team needs a real shooting forward, you can keep Oneal KG and Gasol as they are getting old and would cost us too many young players.

  34. Owen

    Kdun – Why you would pick just three games to make the point that Mardy Collins is an NBA level point guard, I don’t know. But even with this small sample size there are some problems with your analysis. Mardy Collins was 16-48 from the field (five three pointers) and 17-24 from the ft line. That’s really a terrible shooting performance as a starter.

    I agree with Caleb, Mardy has not yet shown he is ready for prime time. I hope he does so next year, I would love him and his game if his shot fell more frequently.

  35. Ken "The Animal" Bannister

    “I agree, this team needs a real shooting forward, you can keep Oneal KG and Gasol as they are getting old and would cost us too many young players.”

    Carter, like many players who rely on explosiveness, is going to decline quickly in his 30’s (he’s 30 now). And whatever package “Isiah could put together for Carter (not that he should) is going to be more or less the same as what he has to offer for the 3 PF’s you mentioned.

    Honestly, I think Lee will give the Knicks great production for 1/10th of the cost of any of the big 3.

    And regarding age — O’Neal is 29, Gasol is 27 and KG is 31. And PF’s tend to produce much more into their 30’s than SF/SG’s (like Carter).

    All of this is moot, really. The story in the Post regarding Carter was SO clearly fed to Berman by Carter’s agent in the hopes of starting a bidding war for his client. The Nets aren’t going to give him max money. The only way to secure a big payday is to get the Nets to do a sign and trade — hence the article mentioning Isiah’s “interest” from “A source close to Isiah”. Don’t believe the hype, people.

  36. Caleb

    Ken has a good analysis, but I would qualify it by saying that Carter is not just athletic, but a good shooter at any range, and a good playmaker for a swingman (lots of assists, good ratio)… so I don’t think his performance will fall off a cliff like some might expect.

    If I were Houston or the Lakers or Cleveland, any team that was a player away from contending, I’d be tempted to mortgage the future to get Vince on board for the next year or two.

    That said, it would be ridiculous for a rebuilding time like NYK to take him on – he supposedly has nagging knee problems, and post-30 would be a white elephant at a salary any higher than $7 or $8 million per – not to mention the 15-plus million that would be part of any sign and trade.

  37. MattinDC

    Being a life long Knicks fan in DC is tough, since I have seen what Ernie Grunfeld has done with the Wiz. I wish he was still GM in NY, with Isiah as the head of scouting/coach. Knicks would be much better at gauging free agent talent.

    Case in point: Jared Jeffries. There’s no good reason why Balkman should play less minutes than Jeffries, besides the fact Isiah overpaid for him. Same as “Big Snax” James.

    Best option for Knicks – do nothing in the free agent market, let the youth develop, stop playing Francis and James (limit Jeffries minutes too), shoot for a lottery pick in next year’s draft.

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