Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, September 1, 2014

NYT: Why Odom Could Make Sense for the Knicks

Over at the Timeseses, I wrote about the prospects of a Lamar Odom homecoming, and how — at a friendly price — it might be the right move for both parties:

In a season not exactly lacking in dramatic narratives, Lamar Odom’s fall from championship complement to tabloid punch line provided perhaps the best combination of strangeness and sadness.

On Dec. 11 the Lakers dealt Odom, the mercurial forward who had just posted the highest player efficiency rating of his 11-year career (19.4), and a second-round pick in the 2012 draft to the defending champion Dallas Mavericks. The price: a future first-round pick and an $8.9 million trade exception for the cap-strapped Lakers, who felt compelled to make the move after being stymied in their efforts to land point guard Chris Paul in a broader deal days earlier….

…Now, the Knicks may be in a position to bring the versatile forward aboard.

You can read the rest here. Or not. Up to you, really. This is America.

37 comments on “NYT: Why Odom Could Make Sense for the Knicks

  1. thenamestsam

    Nice article. Makes a lot of sense to me. As you said, the attributes he brings to the 2nd team would be valuable, but I think they’re an even better fit with the starters if Woodson decides to make the logical move and bring Amare off the bench. Odom would be a perfect fit as a 4 in a starting lineup with Lin, Shump, Chandler and Melo. He’s more comfortable playing off the ball than Amare and his floor spacing and passing would be valuable when we run Lin-Chandler PnR, and when we go to Melo on the block. He’s very comfortable in the 17-20% usage range which makes him a much better fit next to Melo and Lin, and then Amare becomes your primary option for the 2nd unit, a more comfortable role for him than being the 3rd option for the starters.

  2. Garson

    True true…what would make more sense is … Trade chandler and Amare to orlando. and Sign odom.

    Lin, Shump Odom Melo Howard…

    i know i know… no insurance on amare but its nice to dream. Sure beats the Lopez Brooks garbage nets offer their going to cave into.

  3. KnickfaninNJ

    Tsam,

    It’s true that Stoudemire had a bad year this year, but Odom’s was a lot worse. And Stoudemire’s best years are better than Odom’s best years. Chances are Stoudemire will be better than Odom next year too. Starters typically play twice as many minutes as people coming off the bench. I don’t see why we should play a lesser player more minutes for a fit reason I am not sure exists. I think with pre season and such, the first unit we have will be fine.

  4. Cousyfan

    For the past two months I could not understand what you people were talking about when ‘lottery’ was discussed. Today, Colin Cowherd mentioned pingpong balls. Then, a 100-watt light bulb went on. Now, I can enjoy this afternoon’s event. :-) :-) :-)
    Cheers

  5. thenamestsam

    KnickfaninNJ:
    Tsam,

    It’s true that Stoudemire had a bad year this year, but Odom’s was a lot worse.And Stoudemire’s best years are better than Odom’s best years. Chances are Stoudemire will be better than Odom next year too. Starters typically play twice as many minutes as people coming off the bench.I don’t see why we should play a lesser player more minutes for a fit reason I am not sure exists.I think with pre season and such, the first unit we have will be fine.

    You’re right that Amare is the better player and deserves more minutes, but this part “Starters typically play twice as many minutes as people coming off the bench” doesn’t make much sense. Of course that’s true, because starters are typically better players, but you’re acting like it’s written in stone that you have to play your starters more. Plenty of smart teams who have players without massive egos bring important players off the bench because they recognize that playing coherent units as much as possible throughout the game is very important. They also recognize the value in splitting up your best scorers so that you don’t go into a lull by bringing all those guys to the bench at the same time.

    For example, there was a game on last night in which the two best teams in the league each brought one of their top 3 players off the bench for exactly those reasons. And those guys got plenty of minutes. Last year’s champs did the same thing.

  6. thenamestsam

    Garson:
    True true…what would make more sense is … Trade chandler and Amare to orlando. and Sign odom.

    Lin, Shump Odom Melo Howard…

    i know i know… no insurance on amare but its nice to dream. Sure beats the Lopez Brooks garbage nets offer their going to cave into.

    Eh, with the rebuilding job they’re heading towards I think I’d rather have Lopez and Brooks. Amare+Chandler puts you right back in the same cap hell you’re trying to escape from and it’s not like you’re a contender with two clashing front court pieces that also clash with probably your best remaining player (Anderson).

    Anyway I still think they should be able to get at least Bynum and possibly Bynum+Gasol if they’re patient. Dwight doesn’t want to go there but if the Magic wait for Deron to sign somewhere other than Brooklyn then what are his other options? Join a terrible Brooklyn team and hope they can lure Chris Paul to join him after next year (worst nightmare for Knicks fans)? Chicago maybe? Dwight might start to rethink the Lakers possibility.

  7. 2FOR18

    The Nets’ pick is top 5 protected, right? So if they don’t get a top 5 pick then they lose their pick, right? Just asking because this would have D Howard/Deron Williams implications, which would lead to my theory that if the Nets lose out on Howard and Williams we can trick them into taking Amare since they have to fill out their cap space, and no big time FA is going to want to play on such a crappy team.

  8. jon abbey

    2FOR18:
    The Nets’ pick is top 5 protected, right?So if they don’t get a top 5 pick then they lose their pick, right?Just asking because this would have D Howard/Deron Williams implications, which would lead to my theory that if the Nets lose out on Howard and Williams we can trick them into taking Amare since they have to fill out their cap space, and no big time FA is going to want to play on such a crappy team.

    top 3 protected, and Woj says that Williams won’t stay in NJ even if they get Anthony Davis, unless it lands them Howard:

    http://sports.yahoo.com/news/nba–nets-need-more-than-anthony-davis-to-hold-onto-deron-williams.html

  9. KnickfaninNJ

    Tsam,

    I am OK in principle with bringing Amare off the bench but giving him lots of minutes. But Odom would have to be at least close to Amare in effectiveness and Woodson would have to sell Amare on this. Those are big ifs.

  10. thenamestsam

    KnickfaninNJ:
    Tsam,

    I am OK in principle with bringing Amare off the bench but giving him lots of minutes.But Odom would have to be at least close to Amare in effectiveness and Woodson would have to sell Amare on this.Those are big ifs.

    On the first if, I guess I don’t think it matters that much. If Odom is good enough to get playing time then why does it matter whether he starts or not? If that’s the unit where he fits best that’s where he should play. There’s no big reason that your better players need to start the game. And if Woodson can’t command the respect of the players enough to make this kind of move then he really shouldn’t have been chosen as the coach.

  11. Caleb

    Odom at the minimum is a fantastic signing. if it’s a rerun of this year, you don’t lose anything. If he’s motivated and gets in shape, he’s a good or very good player for the minimum – and a guy who doesn’t need shots, either.

  12. ephus

    Agreed that Odom at the minimum is a great signing. If Kourtney and LaLa meet with their respective camera crews at a game, will it be like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters?

  13. Frank

    Caleb:
    Odom at the minimum is a fantastic signing. if it’s a rerun of this year, you don’t lose anything. If he’s motivated and gets in shape, he’s a good or very good player for the minimum – and a guy who doesn’t need shots, either.

    As a vet’s minimum signing it’s a total no-brainer. Question is whether you use part of an MLE on him (if we win the NBPA arbitration thing or if J-Lin somehow doesn’t require all of the MLE if NBPA loses) or give him the biannual exception. Would we rather have him than Novak? I would say yes, even in spite of our shooting issues. Odom (when motivated) brings defense, rebounding, ballhandling, distributing, etc. which are all good things. Seriously, in 2010-11, he basically averaged 16 pts, 10 rebounds, and 3.5 assists per 36. his shooting numbers were sort of a career outlier though.

    Would be a tough choice. My feeling is that he might get the mini-MLE from a team like Miami anyway.

  14. TelegraphedPass

    Z-man: If JR opts out, can that money be used for Odom?

    Nope. We’re over the cap. JR stays either through the player option or 20% raise. That money has nothing to do with the exceptions that would be needed to sign Odom.

  15. johnlocke

    wasted 30 minutes one night watching Lala’s full court press. Melo shows up at the end after a long-break between them and he was as giddy as a school girl.

    ephus:
    Agreed that Odom at the minimum is a great signing.If Kourtney and LaLa meet with their respective camera crews at a game, will it be like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters?

  16. thenamestsam

    Frank: As a vet’s minimum signing it’s a total no-brainer. Question is whether you use part of an MLE on him (if we win the NBPA arbitration thing or if J-Lin somehow doesn’t require all of the MLE if NBPA loses) or give him the biannual exception.Would we rather have him than Novak?I would say yes, even in spite of our shooting issues.Odom (when motivated) brings defense, rebounding, ballhandling, distributing, etc. which are all good things.Seriously, in 2010-11, he basically averaged 16 pts, 10 rebounds, and 3.5 assists per 36. his shooting numbers were sort of a career outlier though.

    Would be a tough choice. My feeling is that he might get the mini-MLE from a team like Miami anyway.

    Miami would be a really nice fit for him. As becomes amazingly obvious when Bosh goes down they could use another skilled big on that team. They have a lot of grinders but not one who can shoot, pass or dribble (Haslem can sometimes shoot I guess). However, I think I remember reading somewhere that Odom has some bitterness towards them for trading him, so maybe he’s not interested.

  17. jon abbey

    the new issue of SI has a paragraph each on 8 upcoming NBA free agents, and the Ray Allen one is interesting. it says that “his relationship with Rajon Rondo has created tension in the locker room” and “Sources say tha Heat and the Knicks are at the top of Allen’s list”.

  18. BigBlueAL

    ephus:
    Agreed that Odom at the minimum is a great signing.If Kourtney and LaLa meet with their respective camera crews at a game, will it be like crossing the streams in Ghostbusters?

    Its Khloe he is married to not Kourtney. Get your Kardashians straight!!

  19. johnlocke

    Hope he keeps bricking free throws and missing threes to drive down his value

    jon abbey:
    the new issue of SI has a paragraph each on 8 upcoming NBA free agents, and the Ray Allen one is interesting. it says that “his relationship with Rajon Rondo has created tension in the locker room” and “Sources say tha Heat and the Knicks are at the top of Allen’s list”.

  20. jon abbey

    johnlocke:
    Hope he keeps bricking free throws and missing threes to drive down his value

    he shouldn’t even be playing, I don’t think anyone thinks this has much to do with the real Ray Allen.

    and if those are really the teams he’s interested in (big if there), his main motivation may be to go at Boston in the postseason, and he knows Miami or NY can’t pay him much.

  21. d-mar

    The Nets can’t catch a break, goodbye 1st round pick. D-Will just called Mark Cuban to say hello.

  22. yellowboy90

    jon abbey: he shouldn’t even be playing, I don’t think anyone thinks this has much to do with the real Ray Allen.

    and if those are really the teams he’s interested in (big if there), his main motivation may be to go at Boston in the postseason, and he knows Miami or NY can’t pay him much.

    One thing NY has over Miami is starters minutes but who knows if its those quotes a true.

  23. Frank

    Wow. Could get ugly in Brooklyn. Knicks are on the rise, and they could be looking at a roster devoid of much talent. Unless they can somehow trade for Howard (resigned Lopez, Brooks, and draft picks every other year forever?), DWill is going to walk. They’ll be forced to overpay Lopez which will probably leave them enough cap space to hand out a max contract, but who is out there to throw a max deal at other than DWill?

    This is for sure though- they are going to throw a huge offer at Jeremy Lin, if only to piss us off. Like a wounded animal just lashing out.

  24. ephus

    Lopez/Brooks/2013 First Round/2015 First Round is probably not enough to get Howard. Nets literally do not have any other assets (unless you think Morrow at $4MM/yr has positive value).

    If Deron Williams leaves, I fear that the Nets will make the big $36MM offer to Lin. Guarantees a sold out Barclays Center (with season tickets) for the first year. The big question would be: Should the Knicks match? I hope that Grunwald has good scouts at the Olympic training center.

  25. SeeWhyDee77

    I don’t know..I’ve wanted Odom to be a Knick for years..but this past year showed how truly fragile his psyche is. I’m not tryina say he didn’t have his share of hardships..but mentally he kinda reminds me of Marbury. Maybe this was a series of extraordinarily tough events for him and he would bounce back and thrive in NY, who knows? As a player..his skills woulds be a perfect fit as the 1st forward off the bench. Especially as another seasoned vet who has actually won a championship. But at this stage, if we can’t get him for the minimum I say no to signing him. I would even trade for him and let him ride out his deal..if it means movin Stat’s deal (http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=84urht3). Maybe as a strarter alongside Melo, Chandler and Lin he rediscovers his passion. But I just don’t know about him mentally. He does have a great skill set and rebounds and defends better than Stat tho.

  26. jon abbey

    Rajon Rondo one of the few players capable of being the best player on the court in a big game against LeBron, incredible half there. he didn’t sit down!

  27. Z-man

    Ugly win for the Heat, glad to see the Celts suffer and at the same time see LeBron blow the win in regulation (he also left Allen open for the three to tie it up.)
    Man, Rondo was FEELIN’ IT!

  28. jon abbey

    53 minutes in a game like that and still be busting threes at the end, we haven’t seen many games like that from anyone since Jordan.

  29. johnlocke

    Lol. All hail Rondo! Horrible way to lose though.
    Celtics are done…and the spurs are crazy. Heat spurs should be fun. Spurs in 6.

    jon abbey:
    so I picked the right day to argue Rondo over Paul, huh? :)

  30. Frank

    interesting to see how switching all PNRs works better when you have LBJ, Wade, Battier, and Joel Anthony out there.

  31. 2FOR18

    Frank:
    Wow. Could get ugly in Brooklyn. Knicks are on the rise, and they could be looking at a roster devoid of much talent. Unless they can somehow trade for Howard (resigned Lopez, Brooks, and draft picks every other year forever?), DWill is going to walk. They’ll be forced to overpay Lopez which will probably leave them enough cap space to hand out a max contract, but who is out there to throw a max deal at other than DWill?

    This is for sure though- they are going to throw a huge offer at Jeremy Lin, if only to piss us off.Like a wounded animal just lashing out.

    I predicted your Lin thing a couple of months back. Along with us dumping Amare on them for G Wallace and cap space.

Comments are closed.