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Thursday, April 24, 2014

No To Brown & Walker?

In case you thought everyone in New York wanted Larry Brown, there are at least two guys that feel it’s not the best move for New York. The illustrious John Hollinger has a freebie in the New York Sun (that I’m sure everyone has read by now), and Tim from HoopsJunkie with a lengthy expantion on the topic. And my nomination for best post on a team-centered message board goes to the man named ‘tomverve’ on Antoine Walker vs. Mike Sweetney. It’s good. It’s long. It’s well thought out. It’s logical. It’s got numbers to back everything up. It links to my page :-). What’s not to like?

15 comments on “No To Brown & Walker?

  1. NYKnickLIFEr

    It has been almost 15 years since the KNICKS went out and hired a REAL COACH. No disrespect to Van Gundy, but ever since Pat Riley did his first “I’m burned out, let a Van Gundy do the Job”
    we have be getting Hand me down coaches. Even Van Gundy was a hand me down hire. Don Nelson was a joke pick when we had no swingman and Mason was the PointPower? So after Van Gundy, we go with Don Chaney? This guy is nothing, he’s not a winner or a loser, he’s nothing, he should be coaching UMASS or something. The Bright Lights or NYC demand a REAL COACH. You know how the Knicks used to keep pace with Bulls? not talent, not even coaching?(follow me) IT WAS THE RESPECT FROM THE REFEREES. Its simple as that. When you have a big name coach, who runs a system that the officials are familar with, you get the benefit of extra trips to the free throw line, you get to hand check a little bit more, hell you can get away with some real hacking and the REFS will look the other way.

    example:
    Remember LAL-PORT game 7, how does the Laker come all the way back down 17 in the fourth? They started playing “referee ball” and they chipped away. With PHil Jackson, you have a coach who can get verbal with the refs and his beef are taken into consideration. At the same time, Portland couldn’t get a call to save them from doom.

    Do you think in all those 3-7 pt loses the knicks had last year, that Herb or Lenny got the benefit of the doubt on those close calls that decide every nba game?

    Although, the game is ‘reffed’ a little different from the X-man,Oakley,Ewing bruise squad, I feel the knicks got penalyzed last year for trying to get physical. I believe a Larry Brown would have the knicks in a position to play real defense, like the spurs, and detroit, and to a lesser extent, the grizzlies and the Rockets.

    The Marbury-Brown beefs are real, I always wondered how Mauby, who is an Allen Iverson type, ALWAYS is criticized for shooting too much. Arenas,B.D,Franchise, and Bibby rarely get charged with being chuckers but they are. Besides Bibby, I’d rather Marbury shoot more than any of those other dudes. So will Brown let mauby do his thing? We’ll have to see.

    But first you have to get the BIG NAME COACH.

  2. Kevin Broom

    I think the Knicks should say “yes” to Larry Brown and “hell no” to Antoine Walker. The “yes” for Brown is with the understanding that it’s a short-term thing — one year, maybe two, and maybe not even a full season. But do it anyway because he’s frigging brilliant, and even a short time with him could help. The other thing you might get with Brown is quality assistant coaches, one of whom could be well-suited to carrying on when Brown decides to hang ‘em up.

    Walker’s been well dissected. He’s a guy with some talent, but he’s not a very good player. Dirt cheap, maybe. But, he hasn’t been efficient at any point in his career, even when he shot less and used fewer possessions in Dallas.

  3. Ted

    I can see why this article was free. First of all, it’s not exactly ground breaking news that LB’s health might prevent him from coaching next year. But this is a guy who has ditched winners for losers in the past and I think he gets more of a kick out of coaching underdogs into the playoffs then from coaching favorites to titles.

    Nothing wrong so far, but from here on in it’s garbage. Every team without an All-NBA player should just forget about even trying? Hollinger should stick to stats and leave the team building to guys like Dumars (who built a champion without an all-around star despite the fact that he lost one of the league’s best players) and Donnie Walsh (who instead of saying “man we’re getting old we should just forget it and get some talent in the lottery” went out and used Dale Davis and Jalen Rose to get Jermaine, Artest, and Brad Miller) and Jerry West (who could have waited for Kobe’s free agency as some suggseted he should and some are saying the Knicks should look to get LeBron, but instead built a playoff team whose star, Gasol, is no better than Marbury).

    And does LB really hate young guys so much? How’d Tayshaun do for him? Well his minutes tripled when LB replaced Carlisle. He made Okur pretty rich. What young guys did the Sixers really lose: a bunch of career underachievers. Would you really have taken a lower playoff seed when you were a serious contender to force feed an undeserving Darko minutes? And if Dumars wanted Darko to play, why’d he bring in McDyss and later Elden? LB doesn’t hate young guys: he hates raw young guys who may never develop or are 5 years away and lazy players who don’t want to play team basketball and don’t care if they win.

    If the Knicks wanted a youth movement 2 years ago would have been a good time. There’s no turning back now, and really no reason to do so. If LB can get us into the playoffs, maybe into the second round, the young guys who can actually play will still develop and maybe Isiah can find his Dale Davis and Jalen Rose. Now when LB leaves our young guys are a year or two older and have played for a winner (imagine if JC learned how to play team basketball).

    I know the Knickerblogger loves Sweets and I think he’ll be pretty good, but how far do you see a slow 6-8 center going? He’s an adequate starter maybe a Zach Randolph type at best (a guy who can score in the post and rebound, but can’t carry a team and will inevitably be overpaid in the NBA). I’m not dying to get him, but Toine has done nothing but win at every level.

  4. Kevin Broom

    Ted: I was pretty much with you until that final sentence. Walker has lost a lot as a pro. His teams have gone:

    15-67
    36-46
    19-31
    35-47
    36-46
    49-33
    44-38
    52-30

    Last season — he played for a Hawks team that finished 13-69 and a Celts team than finished 45-37.

  5. Rp

    I agree with the general consensus that Walker would be a ill fit on the team. We have enough perimeter players that demand shots (Starbury, JC, Tim Thomas if healthy, now Q Rich) that I can’t see adding another shooter w/o inside game (tomverve was on point with the analysis.) I am a fan of Herb W and hope that he gets a year to impliment an offensive and defensive system that can be judged on its own. Also, we’ll have a better team than last year and perhaps w/ Tim Thomas’ personal and physical ailments behind, he can flourish. What has me curious is the Larry Brown vs. Starbury thing. If we really find out what Brown can do for us, will this mean that Starbury is getting traded? They don’t have a good relationship stemming from the 2004 Summer Olympics. And clearly, the Starbury trade rumors were spreading even before the Larry Brown rumors were.

  6. Antoine Safford

    Larry Brown is exactly what the knicks need. The knicks looked horrible on defense last year. They need a coach to light a fire under their asses on defense. Also, brown coming to NYC could help guide Marbury into becoming more of a player leading his team to wins at the point guard position. Even though Brown doesnt like playing rookies, he will fall in love with Nate Robinson.

  7. Ted

    I guess that was a bit of an exaggeration all I was saying is that despite all the bashing he takes Toine has been one of the top players on several winning NBA teams and won an NCAA Championship as well. So while Sweetney has not (yet?) proven he can start at this level, Toine has a pretty good track record.
    The larger point I was trying to make is that if we traded Sweets and a bad contract for Toine and a bad contract I hardly think it would be Jermaine O’Neal for Dale Davis or Pippen for Polynice. At worst it might be a Rip Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse kind of deal. At best we would be moving a backup for a starter and could get a decent 7 footer (Blount) as well. Maybe we could even get a young guy or future pick thrown in.

    I would have my reservations about trading our best inside scorer for another compulsive 3-point shooter (although he limited himself to 3 a game, Sheed’s Detroit average, after rejoining the Celts and if LB’s coaching he won’t let Toine jack up 3s) with no D. I also think that Sweetney and Frye could complement each other nicely or if you’re going to trade him Sweetney might be more valuable at the deadline or next offseason if he goes out and plays big minutes and puts up good numbers (his numbers are pretty similar to Zach Randolph’s through two years, but they’re also similar to Greg Ostertag’s.).
    So really I wouldn’t be too upset if Sweets stays or Toine comes in and I’m just going to have some faith that either way the talent we have can translate into some wins (especially if we get LB). Whether Zeke can finish the job he’s started or not the Knicks are in a much better position talent wise than they were a year and a half ago.

  8. insanitarium

    If Toine comes, its going to be small-ball time.

    PG- Starbury/N-Rob
    SG- Crawford/Penny
    SF- Richardson/Ariza
    PF- Tim Thomas/Motay/Sweets/JYD/Allen/Lee
    C- Toine/Frye//Sundov

    It will be one of the worst defensive teams ever, and will cause Larry Brown to resign before 20 games are done. Isiah will commit seppuku, but it will only be enough to get rid of ~23% of his shame. The Knicks will move to Vancouver, and everyone will be happy. Btw, I am actually Nathan, owner of the Rocket’s Place, and am going to blog again, awful at it though I am. So please add me to your blog’s links, ok?

  9. mason

    …’Toine isn’t that bad of an idea for the Knicks if for any other reason to provide court chemistry thats my opinion at least…Its already a hodge podge of players this guy makes them a little more consistent as a point forward Marbury can play off the ball where he will be more effective; thats a nasty offensive trio with
    Q-Rich, ‘Toine and Marbury… Ariza as sixth man of the year and Sweetney winning most improved and G-nate as rookie of the year if Brown coaches(Frye sees no time).

  10. Michael

    So basically the Knicks players are going to win almost every individual award? Do you realize that the Knicks are going to be hard pressed to even make the playoffs in the lowly East? If they had players of the caliber that you are talking about, they’d be a sure thing for the playoffs.

  11. mason

    … With Larry Brown healthy coaching the KnicKs the whole year they are a lock to make the playoffs probably go 2nd round.

  12. McDaddy11

    I dont know why are they tryin to sign Walker, he keeps the ball in his hands too much, is that what this team needs? He doesnt play defence, is that what this team needs? He shoots the ball too much, if I remember right one year he was leading in 3-point attempts, is that what this team needs? Yes he can drible the ball good for a big guy, he is creative sometimes, but he is trouble, and if someone can remember one of his good preformaces lately in playoffs, please tell me. This team needs fighters not this wannabe Magics. i dont want to see this team goin into playoff gunfights holdin a knife in their hands.
    My opinion is that signing Brown is a good thing, for a simple reason, they need to practice team basketball, that is always a good start, and the right way.

  13. Chase

    As Marbury said, they should make the playoffs this season Larry Brown, Herb Williams or whoever. Sometimes leaders get tired of losing and notice the adjustments they need to make to help the team get better. I think Marbury is very aware that he has to do a better job of balancing his immense offensive talent with improved (team)defense. When your as good as Marbury but you’ve lost as much, your not as selfish as you used to be. Marbury sees how good Philly was when Iverson had Brown and he sees how much better Detroit was when Chauncey bought into Larry’s system. He’s not stupid, he’s exactly where Iverson was a few years ago and I doubt he’ll make it difficult for his team and Brown. Marbury leads (with the coaching of whoever) the Knicks past the 1st round of the playoffs this season – I’m optimistic. Out.

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