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Saturday, July 12, 2014

Next Day Reaction: Sixers 98, Knicks 90

Editors Note: Sorry this took forever. I was watching the debate and then reading the post-debate polls and then checking the Liberal blogs for their reaction and the Conservative blogs for their reaction and then checking Nate Silver’s feed for any changes and intrade to see what the Presidential markets think and then worrying and re-reading the numbers and re-checking the blogs. Basically, the same as I was during LeBron’s Free Agency but this ish matters. I’m a wreck. A total nervous wreck. So I didn’t watch the game until the 1am MSG re-broadcast so I could properly engage in this recappitude. But I did it because I care. I care about you. As Americans. Well, more that I’m a twitching wreck and can’t sleep. But still, enjoy!

New York Knicks 90 Final
Recap | Box Score
98 Philadelphia 76ers
Carmelo Anthony, SF 35 MIN | 7-23 FG | 7-9 FT | 6 REB | 5 AST | 23 PTS | +1

We Knickerbloggeristas have worn our e-pencils down to the nubbin writing about Melo’s degree of effectiveness at power forward versus his stated preference for playing the three. Welp, day one of that experiment resulted in a line straight out of December 2011. Some nice boards and dimes and whatnot, but a whole lotta gettin’ his at the expense of things like running actual plays or ball movement — you know, basketball. More on this later…

Tyson Chandler, C 38 MIN | 2-5 FG | 5-6 FT | 11 REB | 0 AST | 9 PTS | -2

Some standard-brand (if low grade) Tysoning tonight, but I really hope he didn’t disembowel his fellow court-mates in the locker room after the game for their continued inability to close out on shooters, box out, play or even, at the barest minimum, keep the likes of Royal Ivey. (I repeat, ROYAL IVEY) from penetrating the lane at will. At one point in the 2nd, Robo-Center caved in Ivey’s chest on a pick and roll for no apparent reason. I’m going to ascribe that bit of random violence to misdirected anger. I grok that sentiment, Tyson. Totally grok that.

Raymond Felton, PG 33 MIN | 8-17 FG | 2-4 FT | 2 REB | 4 AST | 23 PTS | -3

Yes, those long-distance heaves went in, but Raymond Felton chucking away from downtown at a D’Antonian pace is not a recipe for success. Unless, of course, you are preparing a large feast in which your dinner guests will be dining on the world’s largest shit taco. In the unlikely case that this is so, proceed. And now I’ve written and deleted a mini-screed about how swell it would be to have an Ivy League-ish point guard right about now because I can’t let anything go.

Jason Kidd, PG 24 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 5 REB | 4 AST | 3 PTS | +3

Oh. So Jason Kidd’s our shooting guard. That’s outstanding. Really. What’s that you say? A shooting guard should probably be able to make an outside shot, especially since the Knicks’ offense has been reduced to “Get the ball to Melo in his super-favorite spots on the floor and either watch or wait until he kicks it out when doubled/tripled, kinda sorta if he feels like it”. It’ll totally work, and if you disagree with me, you’re just a haterz. Why? Because VETERAN LEADERSHIP and MENTORING, that’s why. Haterz…pfft.

Ronnie Brewer, SG 16 MIN | 0-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 4 REB | 3 AST | 0 PTS | -4

Pro-forma, boiler-plate statement(s) w/r/t Brewer, Ronnie: First game back, shaking off rust, becoming familiar with his teammates, getting back in basketball shape. Speaking of which…Er, is it just me, or did Ronnie look kinda zaftig out there tonight? It’s probably me. When it comes to weight issues, I have bodily dysmorphic tendencies equivalent to that of your garden-variety teenage girl. Does this blog entry make me look fat? You can tell me. Do I look fat? It’s probably just Jim making me look fat, the ectomorphic bastard. I hate him. Don’t tell him I said that. Thanks BFF’s!

Kurt Thomas, PF 9 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | -8

Considering the ‘Bockers rotation is starting to resemble the Russian Army towards the tail end of the Siege of Stalingrad during WWII, we may be seeing waaaaaayyyyyy more of Ol’ Crazy Eyes than any of us might of imagined as recently as say, three weeks ago. Seeing that baseline jumper is like putting on a t-shirt you’ve had for years. It may be threadbare and have some disturbing stains, but it’s oh-so-comfortable and comforting.

Steve Novak, SF 27 MIN | 2-10 FG | 2-2 FT | 3 REB | 1 AST | 8 PTS | -4

Every time Steve Novak misses a three, angels weep. Not recycle/paraphrase a Sorkinism (and since he’s recycled it in at least three of his shows, my conscience is clear), but the streets of heaven are too crowded with sobbing cherubim tonight.

Mychel Thompson, SF 1 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | +2

I’m still not entirely convinced that Mychal Thompson isn’t just Mike Bibby with a name change and a pair of Adler’s Elevators

Chris Copeland, SF 26 MIN | 6-10 FG | 3-4 FT | 1 REB | 2 AST | 15 PTS | -14

Chris Copeland has been the New Yorkers’ best player this preseason and appears to be the first forward off the bench as of this writing. Human sacrifice! Dogs and cats, living together! Mass hysteria! Discuss

Henry Sims, C 1 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 1 AST | 0 PTS | +2

Hi Henry!

Pablo Prigioni, PG 15 MIN | 1-2 FG | 0-0 FT | 1 REB | 3 AST | 3 PTS | -5

I really wish the Pablo had come to Dolanville four years ago at the beginning of the reign of the Pringle King. With a little more zip in his wheels, he’d have run that offense like a champ.

James White, SG 16 MIN | 1-4 FG | 0-2 FT | 1 REB | 0 AST | 2 PTS | -8

White’s a decent enough slasher, but if he could only hit that corner three — where Shawne Williams made his home and Landry Fields burned his to the ground — he’d be an interesting piece of the puzzle.

Four Things We Saw

  1. Blech. That was ugly. The Knicks clawed back into the game mainly on the strength of a flurry of threes and moving the indicator on the defense-o-meter a few clicks up from “vomit-inducing” to merely “putrid”. Look, I’ve been advocating for a small-ball lineup with STAT coming off the bench/playing center with the 2nd team for awhile. But my carefully calibrated roster-tweaking will only work if Amar’e's around and J.R. Smith gives them reasonable SG play until Shump can come back and Camby can give Tyson extended minutes to ensure that they have a shotblocker on the court all the time and on and on and on. Basically, they need to reassemble the 2001 Sixers, with Melo as Iverson and gobs of shooters and defenders surrounding him. We seem to be missing the shooters. And possibly the defenders, though this raft of recent injuries pretty much throws that formula out the window (for the moment). Of course, when you assemble a roster as geriatric as this one, frequent trips to see kindly ol’ Doc Hinds shouldn’t be much of a surprise. The end result of all this kerfluffling of the the best laid plans of mice n’ Melos and men is somehow, we’ve taken the way-back machine to March 2012. They may play .750 ball these first few weeks whilst waiting for the return of the walking wounded but in order to do so, Melo has to play at an ungodly level and the defense has to be top five for the team to compete. Past is prologue, mes gars. I’m willing to wager that George Santayana was talkin’ about our hometown team when he babbled about failures to remember the past and being doomed to repeat it.
  2. Speaking of my pro-smallball stance, take a look at some nifty opinin’ from newly-minted Grantland scribe, Zach Lowe here
  3. For those who don’t have the MSG feed, there were some quality Clydisms tonight:
    1. He repeatedly referred to Jason Richardson as “Q-Rich”.
    2. When Spencer Hawes abused Novak down low Clyde described it as “Bogarting his way in the low post.” [Insert drug humor here]
    3. Clyde is a handwriting expert. Awesome.
    4. This probably annoys me and only me, but someone needs to tell Clyde that a “Vacillating pace” means the exact opposite of what he thinks it means. Clyde means “fast” whereas vacillating means alternating or wavering between different opinions or actions. Of course, I’d never dare correct Clyde to his face so vacillating now does indeed mean “fast”. He’s getting loose-age with his usage! I’ll show myself out…
  4. And that’s going to do it. I am contractually obligated to remind you that it’s just preseason and there’s plenty of time to work out these kinks or even colossal, unsolvable structural flaws. Oh who the hell am I kidding. PANIC. PANIC. SOUND THE ALARUMS. RUN SCREAMING DOWN THE STREET WEARING NOTHING BUT KNICK-EMBLAZONED SOCKS. PANICKING!

60 comments on “Next Day Reaction: Sixers 98, Knicks 90

  1. ess-dog

    17 shots from Ray? BARF. I am not up for an 82 game Chuckfest from Felton/J.R. this year, I’m just not!

  2. jon abbey

    ess-dog:
    17 shots from Ray?BARF.I am not up for an 82 game Chuckfest from Felton/J.R. this year, I’m just not!

    you should probably pick another team right now then, there’s no way that’s not happening all year long.

  3. Brian Cronin

    Do you really think Felton will be taking shots at the same pace he did his last time here (where he averaged roughly 15 field goal attempts a game)? I sure as heck hope not.

  4. sisterray

    “The Knicks’ offense has been reduced to “Get the ball to Melo in his super-favorite spots on the floor and either watch or wait until he kicks it out when doubled/tripled, kinda sorta if he feels like it”. It’ll totally work, and if you disagree with me, you’re just a haterz. Why? Because VETERAN LEADERSHIP and MENTORING, that’s why. Haterz…pfft.”

    It’s been a while, but isn’t this basically what the Knicks’ offense looked like in the early 90s, with the Melo role being played by Ewing?

  5. johnlocke

    When Raymond Felton is the 2nd best scorer on your team (and right now with Stat and Who shot, JR? he is) it doesn’t bode well for the record in the first 2-3 weeks of the season. It’ll be ugly to start the season. When is JR back?

  6. d-mar

    I think the C- for Melo is WAY too harsh. Yes, his shooting % was bad, and I’d rather not see him taking 23 shots, but with this roster and STAT and JR out, where exactly is the offense supposed to be coming from? Kidd? Chandler? Brewer? Not saying I want to see Melo ISO’s every possession, but for now he’s our best offensive option.

    Oh, and 6 rebounds, 5 assists and 4 steals shouldn’t be ignored either. I’d give him a B.

  7. sisterray

    “And now I’ve written and deleted a mini-screed about how swell it would be to have an Ivy League-ish point guard right about now because I can’t let anything go.”

    I’ll never be able to let go of that one either, but come on! Are you giving up on our current backcourt already? It’s still only the preseason!

  8. Mike Kurylo

    sisterray:
    “And now I’ve written and deleted a mini-screed about how swell it would be to have an Ivy League-ish point guard right about now because I can’t let anything go.”

    I’ll never be able to let go of that one either, but come on! Are you giving up on our current backcourt already? It’s still only the preseason!

    I don’t think the Knicks should sign Copeland at thistime. Instead they should let him test the market and match whatever deal he’s offered by another team. #KnicksLogic

  9. johnlocke

    Still preseason yes – but don’t our rotations / communication on defense is not good and our offensive approach is not great. We are still jacking up way too many 3s. Last season we were 2nd in attempts (23.3 per game) and 21st in 3pt % (33%). So far in the pre-season we’re jacking up even more 3s per game (28.75) and shooting a worse %. Yes, the % will increase once we have JR back, but we need to establish some kind of inside presence. With Amare out, Carmelo needs to get his butt in the post and live down there and cut out the mid-range jump shots and threes unless it’s in transition. We don’t have anyone else that can play back-to-the-basket. If Copeland can do that, he should be getting some more burn. We’re just getting and taking way too many low-quality shots.

    sisterray:
    “And now I’ve written and deleted a mini-screed about how swell it would be to have an Ivy League-ish point guard right about now because I can’t let anything go.”

    I’ll never be able to let go of that one either, but come on! Are you giving up on our current backcourt already? It’s still only the preseason!

  10. johnlocke

    That was a great read and I would argue very spot-on. I’ve argued a similar point on this board using distance from the hoop in the past, but his analysis of open versus not open shots (even if his methodology is a bit qualitative) is really insightful — particularly the part about why he takes more contested shots than his peers. The danger is that Woody has not proven to be an innovator on the offensive end in his play-calling and Melo is more comfortable being on one spot on the floor and staring down the defense. He’s at his best coming of curls, down-picks, cuts to the basket and post-ups close to the basket…but that requires expending more energy than simply catching the basketball in the midpost and “going to work”.

    sisterray: Sounds like the Knicks, alright! It’s good that some things never change. Check out this article on Melo’s shot selection from TWO YEARS AGO (i.e. when Melo was still in Denver):
    http://www.roundballminingcompany.com/2010/10/19/carmelo-anthony-efficient/

  11. StatsTeacher

    I have watched some 50 minutes of Big Baby Felton the past few days— he does some good things! His 3 pt. shooting really helped last night and he got to the line 4 times. The comparisons to Lin are gonna bring some real heartache here — totally different skill set. Lin is not scoring at all right now, just trying to get guys shots. In Felton’s defense last night — whose gonna score when ‘Melo is 7-23. Copeland?

    ‘Bockers are starting more like 2-6 I think.

  12. nicos

    Lay off Clyde! When he uses vacillating he’s referring to back and forth, end to end action. One fast break does not a vacillating pace make, but both teams playing up-tempo back and forth basketball… okay maybe still not vacillating, but close enough.

  13. Jafa

    It took you guys long enough to hit the panic button. I’ve been hitting the panic button since we gave the job to Woodson (no offensive imagination), let Lin walk (and for nothing at that) and started signing everyone with an AARP card (veteran leadership? try old man production).

    Would we be panicking so much about our offense if SVG/Jerry Sloan/Nate McMillan was our coach right now? Would we be worried about our PG taking the 2nd most shots on the team (in STAT’s absence) if that PG was Lin? Would we be worried about JR being injured if we signed some players who weren’t too old to actually help you fill in when one (or two) of your rotation players gets injured?

    Could we use Andre Blache right now in STAT’s absence? Could we use Jason Terry right now in JR’s absence (instead of signing Felton)? Don’t get me started on the ways this team has been dysfunctional put together/torn apart.

    We will start 1-3 in the first 4 games. You can take that to the bank.

  14. StatsTeacher

    @Jafa, I tried to argue a few days ago that what the Knicks did via roster construction was a huge risk. I failed ’cause I talked about salary cap/tax stuff. The real risk is that this roster will guarantee several players unavailable all the time. The sad truth must also be confronted: STAT is using, what 30% of salary resource and giving zero back. The Knicks are spotting a 30% resource edge to other teams –> failure is assured.

  15. StatsTeacher

    I will say the narrative on the Knicks is sure a lot different than the LAL and they are 0-6 so far. The Knicks have some real issues, the question is are thy long term problems –panic justified — or short term issues — panic is stupid.

  16. Jafa

    I say they are long term problems, as the only hope we have for improvement this season is Shumpert returning from injury, and he helps you more on the defensive end of the floor. And we are short on tradable assets, so not room from improvement on the open market.

    And d-mar, we are concerned because unlike the Lakers/Nets who may start slow due to chemistry issues (new players playing together), our problem is a talent issue, specifically offensive talent. We have Melo (stud offensively), STAT (PG dependent offensively), JR (BB IQ challenged offensively) and Novak (athletically challenged offensively). These issues are not going to change with time, especially with a coach with ZERO offensive imagination.

  17. sisterray

    d-mar:
    Are we really writing this team off after like….. ZERO GAMES?

    Unbelievable.

    If you were paying attention last year, then you surely remember the way everyone laughed off early concerns. “Judge us at the end of the season,” Davis said. “Our whole goal, the way we talk, is be ready by April — clicking on all cylinders and ready to head into the playoffs,” Amar’e said.
    Well, it turns out that the early concerns were spot on, and the Knicks made zero progress towards resolving them over the course of the season. And then in the off-season, the biggest move they made was getting rid of anyone who was young and talented (besides Shump) and replacing them with old people who can’t really play significant minutes any more and aren’t even that good for the minutes they are out there any more.
    So, yeah, I’m not sure why we need to adopt a “wait and see” attitude here. The problems are obvious. They should be addressed. Sooner is better than later. Waiting until April again would be foolish.

  18. jon abbey

    d-mar:
    Are we really writing this team off after like….. ZERO GAMES?

    Unbelievable.

    I don’t know about writing off, and people always overreact to everything, but they looked horrendous last night in pretty much every aspect of the game, even when they were making a huge run. what’s worse is that they showed zero cohesiveness, Felton needs to focus on distributing more or Kidd and Prigioni need more minutes.

  19. Frank O.

    The Knicks looked horrible, unfocused and, well, like the same old Knicks.
    They aren’t playing together. Their guard play is not good, and Melo shot, what? 30%?
    They’re old and a bit slow. And they have already had injuries.
    Please don’t tell me they need to gel more. I’m so tired of excuses.
    And Ray thinks he’s a scorer…
    My tolerance this season is pretty low.

  20. Brian Cronin

    Felton needs to focus on distributing more

    Great googley moogley, yes. I am truly astonished that he has yet to adapt his game.

    But still, it is early! I, too, don’t give any credence to preseason. If they play like this in the regular season, then okay, panic time. But not now.

  21. chrisk06811

    I read the WHOLE thing, and found loose-age with his usage at the end. Well worth the investment.

  22. JK47

    Felton is a low basketball-IQ player. High usage, low efficiency. Not really what you’re looking for out of your starting point guard. There are at least two other key rotation players who are low b-ball IQ guys: Amar’e and JR Smith. Those three guys are going to have the rock in their hands an awful lot of the time.

    Other structural problems include: not enough shooting at the guard positions, PF and C backups are ancient, supposed starting shooting guard (Kidd) a liability on defense against NBA 2′s, not enough good two-way players on roster, questionable durability throughout roster.

  23. sisterray

    JK47:
    Felton is a low basketball-IQ player.High usage, low efficiency.Not really what you’re looking for out of your starting point guard.There are at least two other key rotation players who are low b-ball IQ guys: Amar’e and JR Smith.Those three guys are going to have the rock in their hands an awful lot of the time.

    Do you not think Melo is a low basketball-IQ player? Why not? He certainly meets your criteria of high usage and low efficiency.

  24. JK47

    I didn’t mention Melo because I didn’t want to subject everybody to an endless diatribe from you-know-who. Oh, who am I kidding, the diatribe is coming anyway.

  25. cgreene

    Yup. At this point I think @21 summed it up best. I have gone from optimist to pessimist in the course of the last 3 pre season games. We’ve all watched enough basketball to know it when we see it (and the stats also prove it). This team ain’t going anywhere. I didn’t think so before but Nets are better. Same old Melo. Same old guard probs. Same old Knicks.

  26. JK47

    It’s just hard to get excited about this team. Enjoy them now, because they’re as good as they’re going to be until the 2015-2016 season. However they do this year, they’re likely to be worse the year after that and then even worse in the final year of the Amar’e/Melo contracts. It’s going to be a long, slow slog with this bunch. I feel like I can see it coming from a mile away– midlevel seed this year, maybe a playoff series win, then a low seed in 2013-2014 and first round exit, then a terrible season in 2014-2015.

    At least they’ll have their lottery pick after the 2015 train wreck.

  27. JC Knickfan

    JK47:
    It’s just hard to get excited about this team.Enjoy them now, because they’re as good as they’re going to be until the 2015-2016 season.However they do this year, they’re likely to be worse the year after that and then even worse in the final year of the Amar’e/Melo contracts.It’s going to be a long, slow slog with this bunch.I feel like I can see it coming from a mile away– midlevel seed this year, maybe a playoff series win, then a low seed in 2013-2014 and first round exit, then a terrible season in 2014-2015.

    At least they’ll have their lottery pick after the 2015 train wreck.

    Melo going opt-out contract in 2014-15 and I fully expect Knicks resign him to 5 year max deal. Only way I don’t see this happening is if MSG get bought and Dolan is no longer the owner. Melo going huge cap# for 7 more year which continue affect ability to make deals.

    I do wish we could reboot in 2015-16, but I don’t see happening.

  28. Z-man

    I agree that the team has not looked good on either end thus far, but frankly am not very concerned. Even if they start out 3-7, it’s a long season and many a contender has stumbled out of the gate over the years. Regarding injuries, none of the recent ones seem all that serious. Camby has a tweaked calf and will be back shortly. Brewer is just getting back and should be fine. Amare has a cyst issue that should keep him out only a short while. JR Smith is being cautious with a sore achilles, also should be back shortly. Felton is playing so-so, and shot quite well from the perimeter yesterday, also missed 2 layups. Oddly, I am wondering why Chandler is not playing so well, is he holding back? Id Kidd also holding back? It’s possible that these guys just want the regular season to start already. It probably doesn’t help that all of the games are in strange arenas (the floor in Montreal looked like a bad CYO gym floor).

  29. Z-man

    On the positive side, Prigioni and Copeland are interesting so far. I am super impressed with Prig’s defense, both on and off the ball.

  30. knicknyk

    It is just pre-season. I think we should wait until the regular season starts until we panic. I do disagree with z-man in regards to injury. It isn’t as simple as he makes it out to be. Camby has been injury prone. I suspect there is a bigger issue with STAT & his knee & I feel that he will be in & out of the line up as well because of injury. Not so sure about JR.

  31. max fisher-cohen

    As a pessimist about this team, I have to say, “CALM DOWN, PEOPLE.” The Lakers just lost twice in a row to Sacramento, playing their starters significant minutes in both games. Do you think they’re trash now too?

    If you felt this team was going to win 55 games, I doubt you thought it was going to be on the back (or knees) of Amar’e Stoudemire. Based on these games, what is it that has changed about your impression of this roster? We already knew they were slow and old…

  32. ess-dog

    Yeah, jumping to roster moves in 2016 is a little, shall we say, extremist?

    I think Felton is fool’s gold more than anyone, but we still have great depth at the position. I just hope Woody has the nads to keep Felton on a short leash. Felton can’t act like he’s Gary Payton HE JUST CAN’T.

    I would love to see more Prig. He’s been great thus far and I’m sure Kidd will contribute as well.

    Also, I would hate for anyone to have increased expectations for Novak and Brewer. They’re not not Larry Bird and Ron Artest all of a sudden. They’re nice, strategically used bench pieces.

    I guess Thomas will start (the dude can still hit a jumper at least) until Amare gets back and Melo will play a lot of pf with a dash of Copeland? Maybe White and Novak get some run at the 3 with Melo in. That would be a ten man rotation right there, without Camby or JR.

  33. ruruland

    Novak is an incredible; he far outproduces any other 3pt specialist in the NBA. And he has a chance to be the greatest spot-up 3pt shooter in the history of basketball. He’s already shown improvement defensively and on the boards from last season. You’re not going to find much better bang for your 24-28 minutes.

    Brewer looked like shit last night. Maybe it had something to do with missing all of training camp, but I’m probably being way too optimistic. Brewer is garbage, he’s been the highest rated wing defender on the best defensive team in the NBA the last two years, and his trade was the beggining of the end of the Sloan/Williams Jazz, one of the biggest reasons that team started to fall apart.

    He’s horrible offensively, too.

    The fact that the Knicks played with two new starters last night, and the fourth different starting lineup in training camp had nothing to do with the slow start offensively.

    Melo and Felton’s shooting had nothing to do with compensating for an offense that’s trying to figure out how to generate good shots for each other. They will both average a combined 47 shots per 36 minutes on sub .500 combined TS.

    Last night’s 28-6 second half run was utterly meaningless. Sure, it was both team’s starters playing one another, but the Knicks will rarely replicate the 3-11 3pt shooting that generated the run.

    Also, Woodson is full of mularkey to suggest that his Felton/Kidd backcourt combination was actually good defensively.

    The Knicks gave up 98 points last night despite a horrible jump shooting game from the Sixers, where they connected on 43% from 3 and over 50% from the mid-range. Chandler lied when he said that the Sixers offense played well in the first half.

    More importantly, there is now way the Knicks improve from here o out, certainly not relative to teams that’ve played together (only an excuse) Camby and JR SMith’s have virtually no positive impact on the game. And Amar’e will be out most of…

  34. ruruland

    Right

    knicknyk:
    characters available

    Camby is injury prone. Some of us told you that he’d miss quite a few games, and he’d always be out longer than the prognosis.

    He’ll still likely give the Knicks 60-65 games, and understands when he can give himself xtra time. Hint: veterans hate training camp.

    When Amar’e comes back and is in the groove, and Sheed can play soe minutes, expet Camby to give himself some more time. Camby will also give Chandler some games off.

    There is no indication that Amar’e's injury is severe. He put himself through a few months of two-a-days and was fine through much of training camp.

    There is no structural issues with either JR’s ankle or achilles, and he’s practicing as though he’ll play in the opener.

    This is all just very normal preseason stuff.

  35. ess-dog

    Romney, I mean Ruru, you’re just flat out lying.

    The Sixers started maybe 2 of their actual starters in that game.

    And Brewer’s a nice team guy and a good defender, but c’mon. The Bulls were DYING to replace him with OJ Mayo. Couldn’t the Amazing Ronnie Brewer have landed a bigger contract that the minimum?

    I have no problem with Melo and there’s no need to panic. I’m just saying what I’ve said from the beginning: Bringing on Felton was a bad call. The guy’s just not very good. Clearly I’d rather have kept Lin and actually, I’d rather have Jeffries and the picks we gave up back.

  36. AvonBarksdale

    Prig has so much potential, and Copeland is def. a factor. For this particular game, even though he was triple or double teamed during the brief run…I demanded out loud to get Melo the damn ball…prig had to go explain why he didn’t pass which sucked but in Syracuse in preseason in this game, pass Melo the damn ball and let him do work. Anyway chandler is expecting Novak to d up his man maybe a little too much but he’ll be willing to do that as needed…his frustration wasn’t unreasonable but whatever. U guys have every reason to panic based on our history of dysfunction and lack of chemistry but this shit is retarded…we have the team we have so either root for them or don’t this we will fail no matter what attitude is depressing! I will be at the game so hopefully Deron doesn’t continue this trend of 3pt murderball. Whatever happens at this point coach Woodson is gonna have to show me something when the season starts. I liked and appreciated the hustle also, u can’t say it wasn’t entertaining…not like Toronto…that was torture.

  37. ruruland

    ess-dog:
    Romney, I mean Ruru, you’re just flat out lying.

    The Sixers started maybe 2 of their actual starters in that game.

    And Brewer’s a nice team guy and a good defender, but c’mon.The Bulls were DYING to replace him with OJ Mayo.Couldn’t the Amazing Ronnie Brewer have landed a bigger contract that the minimum?

    Ronnie Brewer turned down bigger offers to play with the Knicks. The Bulls let go of Brewer, along with other bench mobsters, to avoid paying luxury tax.

    Last year, Brewer got more minutes than Korver, Gibson, Asik and Watson,.

    Same thing the year before.

    Is he amazing? No, but is he one of the more underrated starting role players in the NBA? yes.is he one of the best defensive wings in the NBA? Yes. Were the Knicks incredibly fortunate that he wanted to sign here for the minimum? Yes.

    Also, how am I lying?

  38. max fisher-cohen

    Brewer is good. He would be a solid starter for the Knicks if they could get rid of stoudemire and add a shooter to the starting lineup. His last four seasons, he’s averaged like a 14 USG%, which is lower than Landry Fields’ rate last season. He needs an offense that can hide his inability to shoot or score off anything but cuts to the rim. It worked out on the bulls because they had three weapons around him: Boozer, Deng, Rose. The Knicks SL features really one weapon in Melo. Some will argue that Stoudemire can have an impact in this offense, but I’ll believe it when I see it.

    38% of Brewer’s shots last season were in the paint the same % as Dwyane Wade and higher than other wings who make a living at the rim such as his teammate, Rose, and Lebron James. Outside of the paint, his eFG% last season was 36.3%. For comparison, last season Mr. Landry “I lost my jump shot in the 2011 playoffs when Paul Pierce stole my manhood” Fields had an eFG% outside the paint of 40.4%.

    75% of Brewer’s FGs were assisted last season — more evidence of his reliance on others’ offense to be effective. He’s a good player on a sweet contract but he’ll only work in lineups that feature JR Smith or Novak along with Anthony.

  39. jon abbey

    I thought even an out of shape Brewer looked good getting offensive boards last night, I’m not worried about him doing his part.

  40. ruruland

    The Knicks starters should be a lot more focused to start game tommorow knowing its last tune-up.

    Could be a good one.

  41. BigBlueAL

    This board is more hostile toward the Knicks than Yankee blogs were during the playoffs and the regular season hasnt started yet lol

  42. ruruland

    Max:

    Actually, Amar’e has historically been the superior jump shooter.

    See for yourself:

    Boozer: http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Carlos%20Boozer

    Amar’e: http://www.hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Amare%20Stoudemire

    Raymond Felton is also a better 3pt shooter than Rose. Same with Kidd obviously.

    It’s looking like Kidd is going probably going to start for awhile.

    Kidd, Felton, Melo is a superior playmaking lineup to Rose, Deng and Boozer. In fact, you can easily make the argument that Felton is a superior playmaker to Rose, merely on the basis of assists.

    Two point guard lineups should eventually work really well with Brewer at the 3 and either Melo or Amar’e at the 4.

    Brewer was on two of the top offensive lineups that played

  43. jon abbey

    BigBlueAL:
    This board is more hostile toward the Knicks than Yankee blogs were during the playoffs and the regular season hasnt started yet lol

    the Yankees made the final four, this team will almost certainly not do that IMO, so it’s justified. plus I believe the Yankees have made 10 ALCSs in the last 17 years, pretty incredible track record.

  44. jon abbey

    ruruland:

    Kidd, Felton, Melo is a superior playmaking lineup to Rose, Deng and Boozer. In fact, you can easily make the argument that Felton is a superior playmaker to Rose, merely on the basis of assists.

    Two point guard lineups should eventually work really well with Brewer at the 3 and either Melo or Amar’e at the 4.

    superior playmaking, but who will they be making plays for? Rose/Deng/Boozer can all get their own shots, that is a decidedly better offensive troika than Kidd/Felton/Melo IMO. I’m really pessimistic about the offense right now, in case that isn’t clear.

  45. sisterray

    I have a question, especially for those of us who don’t see this team going far (that includes myself, but I can’t answer my own question):

    What do you think would happen if Melo and STAT did somehow develop a two-man game finally, something that could be used as Plan A on offense? (There are a number of possibilities conceivable here of course, but the idea is that they’re actually playing together instead of hiding from each other on opposite sides of the court.) How much of the Knicks’ problems do you think that would solve?

  46. jon abbey

    sisterray:
    I have a question, especially for those of us who don’t see this team going far (that includes myself, but I can’t answer my own question):

    What do you think would happen if Melo and STAT did somehow develop a two-man game finally, something that could be used as Plan A on offense? (There are a number of possibilities conceivable here of course, but the idea is that they’re actually playing together instead of hiding from each other on opposite sides of the court.) How much of the Knicks’ problems do you think that would solve?

    I’d say most of them, since there are a ton of great defensive role players on the team that could play alongside them and cover up their defensive failings (mostly Amare, Melo can play D when he wants).

  47. sisterray

    jon abbey: I’d say most of them, since there are a ton of great defensive role players on the team that could play alongside them and cover up their defensive failings (mostly Amare, Melo can play D when he wants).

    So you think there’s enough room on the court for their hypothetical two-man game plus Chandler (essential if you’re going to even partially make up for the stars’ defensive ineptitude/laziness)? And you think that the guards who contribute defense are reliable enough for that outside shot on the kick-out (essential both as a Plan B and for keeping the defense honest)?

    And if all that’s really the case, then why doesn’t Woodson just put his foot down and FORCE Melo and Amar’e to play on the same side of the court until they figure out some way to play off each other? (The penalty for failure would be what everyone thinks is already necessary: Amar’e loses his spot in the starting line-up and gets moved to the second string.)

    One of the most frustrating things about watching the Knicks for the last 1.5 seasons is that they don’t even seem to be TRYING to develop a two-man game between Melo and Amar’e. Is it because they are concerned about other holes that this would open up or enlarge, or is it because they’ve determined that there is ZERO CHANCE that these two guys can actually play together (in which case, why are they playing together?)?

  48. yellowboy90

    sisterray: So you think there’s enough room on the court for their hypothetical two-man game plus Chandler (essential if you’re going to even partially make up for the stars’ defensive ineptitude/laziness)? And you think that the guards who contribute defense are reliable enough for that outside shot on the kick-out (essential both as a Plan B and for keeping the defense honest)?

    And if all that’s really the case, then why doesn’t Woodson just put his foot down and FORCE Melo and Amar’e to play on the same side of the court until they figure out some way to play off each other? (The penalty for failure would be what everyone thinks is already necessary: Amar’e loses his spot in the starting line-up and gets moved to the second string.)

    One of the most frustrating things about watching the Knicks for the last 1.5 seasons is that they don’t even seem to be TRYING to develop a two-man game between Melo and Amar’e. Is it because they are concerned about other holes that this would open up or enlarge, or is it because they’ve determined that there is ZERO CHANCE that these two guys can actually play together (in which case, why are they playing together?)?

    Well I think you saw that when Amar’e played in the pre-season. They started it briefly last year when Woodson took over especially to close out Indy or the Sixers but that was wen Amar’e played the 5. They will not only PnR together but post and cut together from the wing and opposite wing and cuts to the rim.

  49. sisterray

    yellowboy90: Well I think you saw that when Amar’e played in the pre-season. They started it briefly last year when Woodson took over especially to close out Indy or the Sixers but that was wen Amar’e played the 5. They will not only PnR together but post and cut together from the wing and opposite wing and cuts to the rim.

    Well, we didn’t see much of Amar’e in the preseason, and I certainly didn’t see him and Melo working together a lot.

    Put it this way:
    In all the minutes Melo and Amar’e have been on the floor simultaneously in 1.5 seasons, how many times have they assisted one another?
    How many times has one of them set a pick for one another?
    How many times have they even passed to one another in a half-court set?

    I don’t have any stats to share here (anyone?), but every time Melo assists Amar’e everyone singles out that play and demands more just like it.
    And Amar’e even trying a PnR with Melo or drawing Melo’s defender and then hitting Melo for a spot-up 18 footer or setting up in the post and then hitting a cutting Melo? It’s just doesn’t happen.

  50. jon abbey

    sisterray: So you think there’s enough room on the court for their hypothetical two-man game plus Chandler (essential if you’re going to even partially make up for the stars’ defensive ineptitude/laziness)? And you think that the guards who contribute defense are reliable enough for that outside shot on the kick-out (essential both as a Plan B and for keeping the defense honest)?

    there are a lot of hypotheticals here, but I guess my answer is that Amare can be deadly shooting 15 footers (although he was awful at it last year), so in this imaginary world there’s room for Chandler or Camby to defend the rim and mostly stay out of the way on offense. if those two were both in their peak offensive form at the same time, I don’t think you would need much offensive help from the other guys on the court with them. that being said, I don’t see this happening, I was just answering your hypothetical.

  51. sisterray

    jon abbey: there are a lot of hypotheticals here, but I guess my answer is that Amare can be deadly shooting 15 footers (although he was awful at it last year), so in this imaginary world there’s room for Chandler or Camby to defend the rim and mostly stay out of the way on offense. if those two were both in their peak offensive form at the same time, I don’t think you would need much offensive help from the other guys on the court with them. that being said, I don’t see this happening, I was just answering your hypothetical.

    Yes, there are too many hypothetical about what exactly this two-man game would look like (I, for one, would not like to see Amar’e limited to 15′ jumpers; the guy needs to be able get to the rim without committing offensive fouls). But I do think an effective two-man offense that had STAT and Melo would only get you so far on it’s own: you’d need 3 very good defenders to complement them — and at least two of those guys need to be able to hit an open outside shot. There’s Chandler and JR, but I’m not sure how much defense or outside shooting you can get out of our 3 PGs.

    In any case, it seems like Melo and Amar’e should either be playing together on the same side of the court or they shouldn’t be sharing the court at all. I just can’t understand why we’re this far along since the trade and yet there’s not even an attempt to run plays that utilize both of them as genuine scoring options regularly, but there’s still reluctance to take Amar’e out of the lineup. It just doesn’t make sense.

  52. Put In Rolando

    Thanks for the continued fine writing. I cannot watch this Knicks team because I still respect myself too much. Your writing and the hilarious comments are much better. Thank you again.

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