Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Wednesday, September 17, 2014

BREAKING NEWS: The New York Times Reports That Knicks Will Not Match Lin’s Offer Sheet

Howard Beck of the New York Times just tweeted:

Lin will be a Rocket. Knicks deliberations over.

Welp, it’s official. Linsanity will have a new home come fall, thanks to Knicks management going out of their way to ignore the reams upon reams of arguments in favor of matching the Rockets’ three year, $25 million offer sheet.

Details about the deliberations — to say nothing of quotes from management itself — have yet to be disclosed.

Seconds after Howard Beck broke the news, Nate Taylor of the New York Times tweeted that Mike Woodson had been seen sitting with James Dolan in the stands at the opening tip of the Knicks’ summer league game in Las Vegas. For what that’s worth.

Here’s a link to Beck’s piece, which was just posted.

More to come soon. As our good friend Seth Rosenthal is wont to say, please be kind to one another.

353 comments on “BREAKING NEWS: The New York Times Reports That Knicks Will Not Match Lin’s Offer Sheet

  1. BigBlueAL

    Figure I should post this again here since this new thread is started.

    Hahn/Breen/Clyde have spent entire Summer League broadcast so far basically talking about how and why the Knicks should keep Lin. This whole thing is just so odd.

  2. BigBlueAL

    In honor of Z possibly leaving for good I feel like I should change my avatar to an Anthony Bonner pic to keep his memory alive.

  3. Frank

    I’m hoping that since Beck said his story was going up “momentarily” 14 minutes ago, someone called him in the interim and said – “no, the other team!”

  4. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin:
    Hehe, DRed had the best response to that, Al. It is almost as if MSG is run someone like Dolan.

    You know Im not devastated by this news and am still looking very much forward to next season but man this move just makes no fucking sense at all.

  5. Thomas B.

    Thank God. Boy did we dodge a bullet there. Mark my words; 35 games from now you’ll be glad your point is being manned by Kidd and Felton, or as I call them, “Brakes and the Fatman.”

  6. thenamestsam

    Beck is damn good but even good reporters have been wrong before (Do I sound desperate? I’ll admit it, I’m desperate).

  7. Frank

    never mind, the article is up.

    he did leave some wiggle room though saying there was still a chance for a reversal – but i think i’ve given up.

  8. 2FOR18

    Hi Nets. My name is 2for18. Wanna hang out? At least until Dolan leaves NY?

    Thank you in advance for your consideration in this matter.

    2for18 – 35 year Knicks fan. RIP

  9. rohank

    The poor management decisions of this team make me want to cry.

    Will we ever catch a fucking break?

  10. massive

    This is tragic for me. Why must the Knicks do things to take away from being competitive?

  11. PaulStreetBoy

    rooting for Melo, JR and Amare was really hard already. Shump is out for another while. anybody other than Tyson we can root for in this team now that Lin, Jeffries (and even Fields) is gone?

    anybody knows a good Nyets blog? any Russian language courses offered free in the city somewhere?

  12. Frank

    BigBlueAL:
    Figure I should post this again here since this new thread is started.

    Hahn/Breen/Clyde have spent entire Summer League broadcast so far basically talking about how and why the Knicks should keep Lin. This whole thing is just so odd.

    I’m not in front of a tv – what are they saying now?

  13. Jafa

    Are these the ripple effects of the Melo trade? I feel like I haven’t been happy as a Knicks fan since Melo got here. He seems to have cost us every good, young, homegrown player we ever had.

  14. BigBlueAL

    Frank: I’m not in front of a tv – what are they saying now?

    They havent acknowledged Beck’s report at all. Assuming no decision will be announced during the broadcast.

  15. Brian Cronin

    The Nets just signed the Hump for $12 a million, making the total charge to the Nets next year (2013-14) for the Hump (salary and luxury tax) roughly $40 million. Nice to know that Brooklyn will lay out that money for the Hump, but the Knicks won’t for Lin.

  16. Caleb

    Silver lining: we won’t have to listen to any more Tim Tebow crap.

    But this goes down as the worst day in Knicks history since Starks ’94, and more lasting impact.

    Other moves (Eddy Curry, Stephon Marbury, Isaiah Thomas) have sabotaged the franchise even more and longer, but for sheer idiocy and snatching defeat from the jaws of victory, this is an all-timer. This is the one that was literally impossible to F__ up, and they F__’d it up.

    The team is run by an idiot sociopath – the fact that everyone around him and every intelligent basketball mind said he was dead wrong, set his determination to do it.

    F___ this.

  17. dogrufus

    Barring a miraculous reversal I’m done.

    I just can’t do it anymore. This is one heartbreak too many.

    Am I the only one?

  18. Spree8nyk8

    27 years, up in smoke. lol. I knew better too. So many chances to just get away from this team. At work right now wearing my Lin tshirt jersey which upon my arrival at home will be burned, but only the New York side, the Lin side is going in a frame. So that when I try to talk myself into going back I can see why I shouldn’t.

  19. Frank

    Jafa:
    Are these the ripple effects of the Melo trade?I feel like I haven’t been happy as a Knicks fan since Melo got here.He seems to have cost us every good, young, homegrown player we ever had.

    You cannot blame Melo for this. If this is really the way it goes down, this is 100% Dolan. Melo hasn’t cost us anything. Dolan was the one who traded the house for Melo when he didn’t need to. Dolan’s the one making the call on Lin. Blaming Melo is just stupid. He’s a player, not the owner.

  20. Caleb

    Have to say, I just read Beck’s article and it is really weird – weird that NYT would let him publish something where he really doesn’t seem sure.

    “Linsanity is just about over in New York.

    The Knicks plan to cut ties with Jeremy Lin on Tuesday night, according to a person briefed on the decision, ending a brief, spectacular and now bittersweet love affair between the 23-year-old point guard and his adoring fan base. Lin will play next season for the Houston Rockets, who signed him to a three-year, $25.1 million offer sheet that the Knicks have elected not to match.

    The Knicks are not expected to announce their decision until this evening, and there is still a chance — albeit incredibly small — that it could be reversed. But as of 4 p.m. the decision had been made and was considered final by those with knowledge of the deliberations. Indeed, the deliberations were said to be over.”

  21. Frank

    so glad I gave up my season tix this year before all this. my poor 2 year old has a Lin jersey and shirt. Not sure if I can put it on him anymore.

  22. Thomas B.

    So let me see if I got this right:

    The one time this organization doesn’t overpay for talent is the one time it is a mistake?

    Wow, this really is Stockholm Syndrome. You are so used to the Knicks making the wrong move that when they don’t make the wrong move you feel abandoned.

  23. BigBlueAL

    Great tweet I just read:

    Theory: The Knicks are New York’s punishment for the Yankees

  24. Caleb

    Thomas B.:
    So let me see if I got this right:

    The one time this organization doesn’t overpay for talent is the one time it is a mistake?

    Wow, this really is Stockholm Syndrome.You are so used to the Knicks making the wrong move that when they don’t make the wrong move you feel abandoned.

    Is this the real THomas B.? You didn’t use to troll so hard.. or at all… ?

  25. johnlocke

    Not only am I pissed we’re losing Lin, I’m pissed we have incompetent management and a DUMB owner.

    BigBlueAL: You know Im not devastated by this news and am still looking very much forward to next season but man this move just makes no fucking sense at all.

  26. johnlocke

    From now on anytime the name Dolan is mentioned or an NBA player named Dolan steps into MSG, he/she/it will be booed! I don’t even care in what context. Who’s with me?

  27. Gideon Zaga

    Oh don’t be silly, Lin wasn’t homegrown and we still got Shump.

    Jafa:
    Are these the ripple effects of the Melo trade?I feel like I haven’t been happy as a Knicks fan since Melo got here.He seems to have cost us every good, young, homegrown player we ever had.

  28. BigBlueAL

    K Berg confirmed Beck’s report and added this:

    New York has until 11:59 p.m. ET to formally cut ties with Lin. While decision not unanimous, source characterizes reversal as unlikely.

  29. ruruland

    johnlocke:
    Not only am I pissed we’re losing Lin, I’m pissed we have incompetent management and a DUMB owner.

    There is no reason to believe it’s management. These are smart gentleman.

    they may take the fall for this, perhaps Melo is scapegoated as well, but this has to be the makings of just one very stupid man.

  30. Frank

    Now the beat writers are giving themselves some wiggle room. Ken Berger says that’s the “current decision” and that the decision isn’t unanimous but chances of reversal are unlikely.

    this is stupid. i should just go to sleep and wake up tomorrow and find out what actually happened.

    if it was anyone but Beck, I wouldn’t believe it at all.

  31. Degree_Absolute

    On the bright side, at least this shitty, shitty move saves me at least $300 as I won’t be shelling out dough to watch this ancient Knicks squad on my computer for at least the next two seasons. Thanks Dolan for teaching me about fiscal responsibility!!!!

  32. Gideon Zaga

    Hey Ruru how’s it feel to be kicked in the gut by your team. Ain’t no fun eh?

    ruruland: It’s obvious.

    It’s personal grudge or something we don’t know about yet.

    Forbes estimates Lin is worth at least 25-50 million every year off the floor, not including how contributes to winning and advancing in playoffs.

  33. SSS

    From Beck’s article:

    “The Knicks are not expected to announce their decision until this evening, and there is still a chance — albeit incredibly small — that it could be reversed.”

    They do like to prolong the torture.

  34. DRed

    Gideon Zaga:
    Oh don’t be silly, Lin wasn’t homegrown and we still got Shump.

    We already tried to trade Shump this offseason, and he has never played as well as Lin. I’m sure he’s going to be touted over the next year as the key for some fanciful scheme that’s going to somehow land us CP3 and then will eventually be traded for an overrated malcontent chucker on the downside of his career. This team is owned by a fucking meddling idiot. There’s no way around it. He’s fucked up the efforts of two competent GM’s in the last 5 years. We might as well just bring back Isaiah at this point.

  35. johnlocke

    This is just an incorrect analogy. We have been overpaying for ‘stars’ beyond their primes in TMAC, Steve Francis, Starbury and getting burned for years. Here comes a 23 year old PG who falls out of the sky into our laps, and we manage to fuck it up. This was a move with a lot of upside and lots of options to minimize downside…that’s a trade you make every day of the week, including Sunday. Are you kidding me? Dolan is just a petulant child who was pissed that a guy from Harvard outmaneuvred him so he’s exacting his revenge by stabbing himself in the eye…what a fucking retard. #RANT OVER , …maybe

    Thomas B.:
    So let me see if I got this right:

    The one time this organization doesn’t overpay for talent is the one time it is a mistake?

    Wow, this really is Stockholm Syndrome.You are so used to the Knicks making the wrong move that when they don’t make the wrong move you feel abandoned.

  36. Thomas B.

    Caleb: Is this the real THomas B.? You didn’t use to troll so hard.. or at all… ?

    In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    I’m not trolling. I just think you guys are overreacting. All this “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory”, “costing us a chance at a title”, and “I’m going to be a Nets fan” stuff is just a really odd reaction to have to a guy who only played well in about 18 of 35 games. None of those games against good teams in the conference.

    I’m not a troll. I am trying to talk you guys back of the ledge. I really think you guys are looking at some idealized version of Lin as some direct from heaven savior of the team.

    C’mon guys this is Lin we are talking about, not some First team NBA player. Look if this is the “We are here to mourn the loss of Lin club” then fine I’ll stay out of your pity party. I’ll keep my comment window shut.

    I may not agree with you, but I aint a troll.

  37. Frank

    I’m totally heartbroken right now, but we should be clear on one thing – if Lin sucks in Houston (which I don’t think will happen) – we probably all need to collectively eat some crow and give credit where it is due.

    Except Thomas B I guess.

  38. PrecociousNeophyte

    The image of Dolan, Woodson, and JR Smith laughing it up in the stands at the summer league game right now is sickening.

    Is there any doubt Lin would be a Knick right now if he was a CAA client?

  39. Gideon Zaga

    Oh please u and me know you already paid that already. But you’re allowed to overreact for now.

    Degree_Absolute:
    On the bright side, at least this shitty, shitty move saves me at least $300 as I won’t be shelling out dough to watch this ancient Knicks squad on my computer for at least the next two seasons.Thanks Dolan for teaching me about fiscal responsibility!!!!

  40. ruruland

    Gideon Zaga:
    Hey Ruru how’s it feel to be kicked in the gut by your team. Ain’t no fun eh?

    It’s not so much this kick as it’s knowing that any coherent plan for building a championship team can be sabotaged at any moment.

    prior to this, the off-season was providing a real reason to believe the Knicks were focused on building a team that could compete with the Heat, as the continuum of prior moves seemed to be coming together to form a real stratgey, perhapsmuch of that was merely fortune, but a picture was forming…. and then a whim and it’s probably over the next few years — Melo and Chandler’s primes will be over by then…..

    This is awful for everyone involved.

  41. rohank

    It doesn’t matter whether Lin sucks or not in Houston. The fact is that given the information we are currently presented with, the overwhelmingly correct choice was to match. And they screwed it up.

  42. rohank

    Well at least we have plenty of cap space for the summer of 2015 when Lin will be a free agent again…..???????? amiright?

  43. DRed

    rohank:
    It doesn’t matter whether Lin sucks or not in Houston. The fact is that given the information we are currently presented with, the overwhelmingly correct choice was to match. And they screwed it up.

    Exactly.

  44. ruruland

    PrecociousNeophyte:
    The image of Dolan, Woodson, and JR Smith laughing it up in the stands at the summer league game right now is sickening.

    Is there any doubt Lin would be a Knick right now if he was a CAA client?

    This is Dolan level idiocy.

  45. Mulligan

    Okay, so we can have a fresh start beginning in 2016, right? Maybe starting in 2015 if we shed contracts? So we have 3 years to get regime change at MSG, otherwise there just ain’t no point.

    Chandler and Shump are the only 2 guys on this team that I really like. This is such a bummer.

  46. PrecociousNeophyte

    JR Smith just retweeted the article about the Knicks letting Lin go while sitting next to Dolan and Woodson.

    These are the types of players the Knicks willfully associate themselves with. But Jeremy Lin gets run out of MSG for maximizing his earning potential.

  47. thenamestsam

    ruruland: This is awful for everyone involved.

    I have to say you may not have been a “real” knicks fan before ( I don’t personally draw a distinction, but some people clearly have), but you are now. This is your baptism to the horrible world of what it means to be a Knicks fan. Welcome to the club!

  48. KJG

    utterly disgusting… pi$$ poor… the entire time i was holding out hope that the knicks were going to match… i did it to myself…

    the team is near impossible to root for… let’s be real, even tho we are knick fans through and through, this TEAM and ORGANIZATION are VERY hard to root for…

  49. ruruland

    Thomas B.: In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.

    I’m not trolling. I just think you guys are overreacting.All this “snatching defeat from the jaws of victory”, “costing us a chance at a title”, and “I’m going to be a Nets fan” stuff is just a really odd reaction to have to a guy who only played well in about 18 of 35 games.None of those games against good teams in the conference.

    I’m not a troll. I am trying to talk you guys back of the ledge.I really think you guys are looking at some idealized version of Lin as some direct from heaven savior of the team.

    C’mon guys this is Lin we are talking about, not some First team NBA player.Look if this is the “We are here to mourn the loss of Lin club” then fine I’ll stay out of your pity party.I’ll keep my comment window shut.

    I may not agree with you, but I aint a troll.

    It’s still going to be a very good team, and certainly the current talent is more likely to be optimized, but the championship upside is pretty much gone.

    Lin was the over-the-top piece the Knicks can no longer get with this core. The Knicks can’t trade for CP3 after next July. And unless something quite unforeseen happens, this is it — and it’s not quite good enough….

    And when you’re not quite good enough and you’re getting older and there’s no hope of getting outside improvement, atrophy and underachievement set in…

    I expect a great yeaar next year and then a drop off…. Melo’s prime is basically fucked and the heat will string together a bunch of em.

  50. arthurprescott2

    Is JR happy? I hope the guy’s happy. He just retweeted ESPN’s “not matching” story.

  51. DRed

    PrecociousNeophyte:
    JR Smith just retweeted the article about the Knicks letting Lin go while sitting next to Dolan and Woodson.

    These are the types of players the Knicks willfully associate themselves with. But Jeremy Lin gets run out of MSG for maximizing his earning potential.

    No no. It’s because he was acting entitled! You have to be an overrated gunner like Carmelo for years before you’ve earned the right to quit on the team that’s paying you millions of dollars because you don’t like the coach.

  52. Jafa

    PrecociousNeophyte:
    JR Smith just retweeted the article about the Knicks letting Lin go while sitting next to Dolan and Woodson.

    These are the types of players the Knicks willfully associate themselves with. But Jeremy Lin gets run out of MSG for maximizing his earning potential.

    JR Smith’s comments about the contract not sitting well in the locker room were probably about him than they were about anyone else in the locker room.

  53. daJudge

    Thomas B.-There are a lot of folks who find that Lin has an exceptionally high rootability index. It’s not just his numbers, which were undeniably impressive. There are many factors. So, after losing other popular players, like Gallo, for instance, people just ain’t happy and actually feel betrayed. I am one of those who are not happy at all because the arguments in favor of signing this kid were strong and, IMO, the arguments against scant. This is particularly irksome since we get nothing back after this dude fell in our laps. Talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth. I do not believe you are a troll at all as I have read many of your posts. Frankly, I felt the same about Gallo.

  54. Jafa

    Mulligan:
    Okay, so we can have a fresh start beginning in 2016, right? Maybe starting in 2015 if we shed contracts? So we have 3 years to get regime change at MSG, otherwise there just ain’t no point.

    Chandler and Shump are the only 2 guys on this team that I really like. This is such a bummer.

    In 2008 we had to wait until 2010. Now we have to wait until 2016?

  55. Frank

    rohank:
    It doesn’t matter whether Lin sucks or not in Houston. The fact is that given the information we are currently presented with, the overwhelmingly correct choice was to match. And they screwed it up.

    Look – I think this whole thing is stupid too. But the overwhelmingly correct choice won’t be apparent probably until mid-season next year. What I can say for sure, though, is that THIS choice is STUPID. If you’re even considering letting him go, you need to get SOMETHING for him. Now we have nothing.

  56. Degree_Absolute

    Gideon Zaga:
    Oh please u and me know you already paid that already. But you’re allowed to overreact for now.

    Hey, I can still watch Knicks games if someone at a network is dumb enough to put them on national TV, but I won’t be spending a dime out of pocket on this team for a good, long while. I would not be surprised if others felt the same way.

  57. johnlocke

    He’ll be trying on an extra large jersey with his huge gut. How can you be a professional athlete at the PG position and be so chronically out of shape …FML

    Jafa:
    Raymond Felton, meet pressure.Go ahead and try on these big shoes.

  58. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    rohank:
    It doesn’t matter whether Lin sucks or not in Houston. The fact is that given the information we are currently presented with, the overwhelmingly correct choice was to match. And they screwed it up.

    Contrarily to my own opinion, I’ve heard so many people on this board tout the expertise and professional opinion of NBA front offices so often.

    This is probably the worst time to be right.

  59. ruruland

    Frank:
    I’m totally heartbroken right now, but we should be clear on one thing – if Lin sucks in Houston (which I don’t think will happen) – we probably all need to collectively eat some crow and give credit where it is due.

    Except Thomas B I guess.

    No because the downside was quite manageable. The only thing that could get Dolan off the hook on this is if Lin’s knee injury is causing issues that no one knows about yet. That’s certainly a possibility. Because if that’s the cause, and he still tries to play on it for a few years but is less effective, there doesn’t seem to be recourse.

  60. Frank

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Contrarily to my own opinion, I’ve heard so many people on this board tout the expertise and professional opinion of NBA front offices so often.

    This is probably the worst time to be right.

    Gotta hand it to THCJ. He is right today, and about this stupid FO.

  61. johnlocke

    Here are your Atlanta Hawks North everyone… enjoy the next three years… Dolan is such a fucking idiot, if he thinks he’s hurting Lin, by allowing him to go to the Rockets, make tons of money in a city with a much lower cost of living and be mentored by Yao Ming, he truly is a MORON. He’s just stabbing himself in the eye, to spite his arm.

    ruruland: It’s still going to be a very good team, and certainly the current talent is more likely to be optimized, but the championship upside is pretty much gone.

    Lin was the over-the-top piece the Knicks can no longer get with this core. The Knicks can’t trade for CP3 after next July. And unless something quite unforeseen happens, this is it — and it’s not quite good enough….

    And when you’re not quite good enough and you’re getting older and there’s no hope of getting outside improvement, atrophy and underachievement set in…

    I expect a great yeaar next year and then a drop off…. Melo’s prime is basically fucked and the heat will string together a bunch of em.

  62. thenamestsam

    ruruland: It’s still going to be a very good team, and certainly the current talent is more likely to be optimized, but the championship upside is pretty much gone.

    Lin was the over-the-top piece the Knicks can no longer get with this core. The Knicks can’t trade for CP3 after next July. And unless something quite unforeseen happens, this is it — and it’s not quite good enough….

    And when you’re not quite good enough and you’re getting older and there’s no hope of getting outside improvement, atrophy and underachievement set in…

    I expect a great yeaar next year and then a drop off…. Melo’s prime is basically fucked and the heat will string together a bunch of em.

    Perfectly said. The championship upside is what Lin represented, and it’s gone. I can’t believe how much my spirits about this season have changed in 4 days. When Ruru can’t even be optimistic you know you’re royally fucked.

  63. Mulligan

    Jafa: In 2008 we had to wait until 2010.Now we have to wait until 2016?

    If we’re lucky. As many folks have said for many years, we will never contend for a championship while Dolan owns the team.

  64. Brian Cronin

    Look – I think this whole thing is stupid too. But the overwhelmingly correct choice won’t be apparent probably until mid-season next year. What I can say for sure, though, is that THIS choice is STUPID. If you’re even considering letting him go, you need to get SOMETHING for him. Now we have nothing.

    It is definitely an interesting discussion. Like, say, you’re up one run and there are no outs in the bottom of the ninth inning. You decide to walk the first three batters intentionally. A bad decision by any stretch of the imagination. Then the next three batters all strike out and you win. Does that make the decision to intentionally walk the bases loaded suddenly a good one?

    I don’t think so, and I think that applies to this situation, as well. Even if Lin shits the bed in Houston, this is a terrible decision. Lin shitting the bed will just make it easier to bear.

  65. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Frank: Gotta hand it to THCJ. He is right today, and about this stupid FO.

    There’s a great piece on Wages of Wins about “expert opinion” from a couple days ago. I recommend it.

  66. dogrufus

    ruruland: It’s still going to be a very good team, and certainly the current talent is more likely to be optimized, but the championship upside is pretty much gone.

    Lin was the over-the-top piece the Knicks can no longer get with this core. The Knicks can’t trade for CP3 after next July. And unless something quite unforeseen happens, this is it — and it’s not quite good enough….

    And when you’re not quite good enough and you’re getting older and there’s no hope of getting outside improvement, atrophy and underachievement set in…

    I expect a great yeaar next year and then a drop off…. Melo’s prime is basically fucked and the heat will string together a bunch of em.

    No it’s not going to be a good team. We have no chance at beating any of the top 3 teams in the conference. We have the worst PG play in the league easily, assuming out 38 year old backup and his 35 year old rookie backup stay healthy.

    Amare is shit without a good PG. This team is lotto to average, the league’s most predictable underachiever.

    Anything we do achieve will be bitter disappointment because we’ll know we could have got a level beyond had we avoided this colossal mistake.

    If this holds I’m done forever.

    Fuck the Knicks, fuck James Dolan.

    FUCK HIM.

  67. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Contrarily to my own opinion, I’ve heard so many people on this board tout the expertise and professional opinion of NBA front offices so often.

    This is probably the worst time to be right.

    Jesus, so you’re letting Dolan off the hook? You’re going to try to twist this to bolster your WOW is God arguments?

  68. thenamestsam

    ruruland: No because the downside was quite manageable. The only thing that could get Dolan off the hook on this is if Lin’s knee injury is causing issues that no one knows about yet. That’s certainly a possibility. Because if that’s the cause, and he still tries to play on it for a few years but is less effective, there doesn’t seem to be recourse.

    Even if that was true some simple foresight could easily have gotten them assets out of the situation. All they had to do was offer to sign and trade him to Houston. Even if they didn’t want Lin because of injury or chemistry or w/e simply letting an immensely valuable asset walk for nothing is mind boggling. Only the Knicks man.

  69. Jafa

    thenamestsam: Perfectly said. The championship upside is what Lin represented, and it’s gone. I can’t believe how much my spirits about this season have changed in 4 days. When Ruru can’t even be optimistic you know you’re royally fucked.

    Yep. I expected ruru to come on here and be upbeat. But even he sounds depressed.

  70. johnno

    I realize that I’m in the minority, but I blame one person and one person only — Jeremy Lin. If he really wants to play for the Rockets, he played his cards right. If he really wanted to play for the Knicks, he shouldn’t have double-crossed them (yes, I think that HE double-crossed THEM) and squeezed the Rockets for more money. He overplayed his hand. I’m sorry to see him go, but I’ll get over it. Like most fans, by tomorrow, I will have talked myself into believing that it was the right basketball decision. In fact, I’m halfway there already. And face it guys, the vast majority of you who are threatening to leave for the Nets won’t do it.
    P.S. Can someone please send Felton a treadmill and some P90X DVDs? Thanks.

  71. JK47

    So long Knicks. It’s been a mostly shitty 25 years. Rot in hell, losers. Enjoy the abject failure that is headed your way. You’re a laughing stock and always will be.

    GO LAKERS.

  72. arthurprescott2

    I understand the frustration, but to jump ship now? Yes, this might be the feather that broke the camel’s back (your belief in this team), but that said, Knicks will still be in contention for #3-4 seed though the brick wall that is Miami will not be overcome (barring fluke injuries).

  73. Thomas B.

    coolzz:
    I had a great time in this site. But I’m not a Knicks fan any more. Good bye guys.

    See what I mean? Cats are jumping off a bridge over this. Look I didn’t quit when they traded Mark Jackson for Charles Smith (an epic failure of a trade mind you) and I’m not jumping off now. I doubt Lin’s career numbers will ever be anything close to Jackson’s.

    People please you have bought in to a slick marketing campaign that has you sold on Lin as the key to everything.
    Jeremy Lin is not a Thneed.

  74. PrecociousNeophyte

    The Knicks have signed three guards his winter. One just crashed his car into a telephone pole, one is dumb enough to think being fat makes him stronger, and the last is JR Smith (no explanation needed).

    Yet the smear campaign for Lin over the next few days will probably be epic.

    This team is just so difficult to root for.

  75. Frank

    Brian Cronin: It is definitely an interesting discussion. Like, say, you’re up one run and there are no outs in the bottom of the ninth inning. You decide to walk the first three batters intentionally. A bad decision by any stretch of the imagination. Then the next three batters all strike out and you win. Does that make the decision to intentionally walk the bases loaded suddenly a good one?

    I don’t think so, and I think that applies to this situation, as well. Even if Lin shits the bed in Houston, this is a terrible decision. Lin shitting the bed will just make it easier to bear.

    I don’t think that’s a good analogy. The better analogy is selling a stock that you are pretty sure will tank while everyone else thinks it’s getting ready to blow up. If you’re right, you’re a genius. If you’re wrong and everyone else is right, you’re an idiot.

    I think the Knicks are being idiots right now.

    BUT-

    If they’re right, and Lin ends up being bad (which I don’t think is what will happen) – and not just bad, but BAD – then the marketing goes away, the off-court stuff goes away. And then you’re left with a crappy contract that no one wants, and luxury tax that needs to be paid even if it’s made better by the stretch provision.

    Look, I’m not saying I agree with any of this – I don’t think he’ll be bad – but if he IS bad, then they will have been proven right.

    It’s just weird though. How often does a GM give up on a diamond in the rough that he found? They usually hold onto those guys like trophies forever. So this HAS to be Dolan and it has to be personal.

  76. ephus

    Even if this is the final answer, I will continue to root for the Knicks in spite of their owner, much as I rooted for the Yankees in spite of George Steinbrenner from 1992 until his death.

    In 1983, as young teen, I abandoned the Yankees in favor of the cellar-dwelling (but hopeful) Mets, because I could not stand to root for a team owned by George Steinbrenner. I got the joy of watching Daryl Strawberry come to the Mets in 83, Dwigh Gooden’s arrival, the 1986 World Series and the heartbreak of 1988. But when the Mets devolved into Worst Team Money Could Buy, I followed my heart back to the Yankees.

    It’s a different calculus for me now. I have bonded with my nine-year old daughter over the Knicks. I understand why others decide the heartache is not worth it, but I will not be joining you. For good or for bad (mostly bad), the Knicks are my team. I will miss those who leave.

  77. Mulligan

    Also, get ready to watch the accelerating deterioration of Felton. I cannot imagine a worse situation to be put in. He would have to play at an impossibly high level to withstand the scrutiny.

  78. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, to be fair, we don’t know if this was a Front Office decision or a Dolan decision. Until we do, we can’t fairly rip the front office.

  79. steveoh

    I love this site. I hate James Dolan. I live in San Francisco, so I can (and probably will) adopt the Warriors.

    I don’t know what to do.

  80. Ben R

    After the Melo trade I was really angry, I barely watched the Knicks for the rest of the season and was even slightly happy when they struggled though I was still rooting for them. The Chandler signing and then Linsanity brought me back from the brink but this time I’m not angry I just feel tired, I feel done.

    During the past decade it was tough but we never had hope so it was impossible to really be hurt by the bad decisions but lately there were glimmers of hope so I open myself up to be happy about the Knicks, excited even and then they just crush that feeling, over and over.

    I liked Gallo, Lee, Mozgov, Fields, Chandler, Lin, Jorts, and even liked TD and had hope he would bounce back. Now they’re all gone. We went from one of the youngest teams a year and a half ago to what I’m guessing is the oldest team. We have no upside anywhere and we are capped out for three years with limited draft picks.

  81. JK47

    I want to thank all the regulars here for being really smart, funny and insightful through all these years. You guys deserve better than this bullshit.

    I’ll miss this place but I won’t miss this POS loser team.

  82. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: Jesus, so you’re letting Dolan off the hook? You’re going to try to twist this to bolster your WOW is God arguments?

    Because he is directly involved with basketball related operations, I hold him accountable as well. Still, the release option before year three should be a point of vehement disagreement between Dolan and anyone in his front office with half a brain. I don’t care that he’s the boss; it’s a terrible personnel move and since they’ll (Grunwald, et al.) will get the boot after they get bounced from the first round over the next few years, they might as well stick their necks out now for a chance for future income.

  83. rohank

    Someone should contact Lin and tell him to call Dolan and beg him to match. That’s the only way this happens now.

  84. daJudge

    NY Giants–Superbowls each of the last four decades. Look to the ownership for that record. The one thing I was sure of was that Dolan would spend the dough and even though he done bone headed stuff, this would not be an issue. But sure enough…I wonder if the arbitrator’s decision was really a curse somehow (I don’t mean metaphysically).

  85. ruruland

    dogrufus: No it’s not going to be a good team.We have no chance at beating any of the top 3 teams in the conference.We have the worst PG play in the league easily, assuming out 38 year old backup and his 35 year old rookie backup stay healthy.

    Amare is shit without a good PG.This team is lotto to average, the league’s most predictable underachiever.

    Anything we do achieve will be bitter disappointment because we’ll know we could have got a level beyond had we avoided this colossal mistake.

    If this holds I’m done forever.

    Fuck the Knicks, fuck James Dolan.

    FUCK HIM.

    yes, it will still be a very good team. Kidd’s going to be an excellent piece, Felton for his other faults, is a proven pnr player that can get the tempo going….

    I still expect a deep playoff run this year.. The problem is that when you’re getting older and there isn’t a chance to get better from the outside, you lose the willpower to push again…. Line was the guy you need to take it all the way, now and in the future years…..

    Like I said, melo’s prime is basically fucked now. He is going to have a monster year, Amar’e will be excellent, but it won’t have the staying power.

    So, the hope is to somehow get really lucky this year or figure out some ridiculous formula for trading for CP3 before next July.

  86. max fisher-cohen

    Thomas B.:
    So let me see if I got this right:

    The one time this organization doesn’t overpay for talent is the one time it is a mistake?

    Wow, this really is Stockholm Syndrome.You are so used to the Knicks making the wrong move that when they don’t make the wrong move you feel abandoned.

    Here are the qualifications for the shit moves NYK has made over the last 12 years:

    1) Trading youth and picks. This move doesn’t fit that description. IN fact, it’s the opposite. We’re trading our youngest player.

    2) Going for “proven” veterans over younger players whose future was more uncertain (higher ceiling, lower floor). Lin does not fit this description.

    3) Bringing in players with character issues. Lin seems to be a very high character guy.

    4) Spending when we needed to be rebuilding and saving cap space. This team is blatantly in win-now mode, so this move doesn’t fit this category.

    5) Coddling the egos of those veterans we overpay rather than encouraging a culture of humility and support. Looks like the decision to NOT sign Lin fits this description.

    Lin was as close to the sort of low-risk, high-reward type deal that this team has seen in my 20 years as a Knicks fan. The worst case scenario was that we trade him in three months for some assets. The best case scenario was that he fulfilled the promise showed, and statistically speaking, having played only 1200 minutes, he’d played better than probably 95% of the players do in their first years. 1,200 mins is like 1/3 of season! Most players blossom after at least a full season, sometimes longer, so there is a great chance Lin ends up BETTER than he was last year.

    It’s just absurd and further supports my impression of James Dolan as a psychotic moron with the delusion that he is some bad ass mafioso.

  87. Brian Cronin

    What is up with no one in the media picking up on the stretch provision angle until today, three days into the discussion? That was really weird. It was almost like no one wanted to write about it until another established NBA writer wrote about it. Once someone did, then everyone started writing about it.

  88. rohank

    rohank:
    Someone should contact Lin and tell him to call Dolan and beg him to match. That’s the only way this happens now.

    I just tried messaging him on Facebook…

  89. BigBlueAL

    Thomas B.: See what I mean? Cats are jumping off a bridge over this.Look I didn’t quit when they traded Mark Jackson for Charles Smith (an epic failure of a trade mind you) and I’m not jumping off now.I doubt Lin’s career numbers will ever be anything close to Jackson’s.

    People please you have bought in to a slick marketing campaign that has you sold on Lin as the key to everything.
    Jeremy Lin is not a Thneed.

    To be fair the Knicks also got Doc Rivers in that trade :-)

  90. ruruland

    thenamestsam: Even if that was true some simple foresight could easily have gotten them assets out of the situation. All they had to do was offer to sign and trade him to Houston. Even if they didn’t want Lin because of injury or chemistry or w/e simply letting an immensely valuable asset walk for nothing is mind boggling. Only the Knicks man.

    I agree.

  91. Jafa

    johnno:
    I realize that I’m in the minority, but I blame one person and one person only — Jeremy Lin.If he really wants to play for the Rockets, he played his cards right.If he really wanted to play for the Knicks, he shouldn’t have double-crossed them (yes, I think that HE double-crossed THEM) and squeezed the Rockets for more money.He overplayed his hand.I’m sorry to see him go, but I’ll get over it.Like most fans, by tomorrow, I will have talked myself into believing that it was the right basketball decision.In fact, I’m halfway there already.And face it guys, the vast majority of you who are threatening to leave for the Nets won’t do it.
    P.S.Can someone please send Felton a treadmill and some P90X DVDs?Thanks.

    Jeremy Lin did what was best for him and his family. You are blaming him for squeezing the Rockets for more money?

    Ummm….you mean like when Melo forced the Nuggets to trade him before the new CBA so that he could lock in a lucrative extension? You mean like when STAT canceled his Chicago visit after the Knicks offered him $100 M? You mean like when Tyson Chandler didn’t return the Warriors calls after we offered him more money?

    Please, give me an example of one of our current players who didn’t go for the most dollars they could get?

  92. johnlocke

    Yes, he overplayed his hand, yes it was a little shady, I said as much a couple days, but that doesn’t mean you cut off your nose to spite your face. If I told you, you could make a trade where there was significant upside, while minimizing the downside, and that your opportunity cost was not doing any other trade…how in the hell could you say no to that? That’s just simple logic and clearly Dolan let his emotions/arrogance/i will not be fucked with attitude get in the way of good managerial decision-making. Lin at $5M a year for 2 years is a good deal, lots of options to deal with that third year if he ends up sucking. I have no respect for the intelligence of Dolan …and the yes men I’m sure he surrounds himself with.

    johnno:
    I realize that I’m in the minority, but I blame one person and one person only — Jeremy Lin.If he really wants to play for the Rockets, he played his cards right.If he really wanted to play for the Knicks, he shouldn’t have double-crossed them (yes, I think that HE double-crossed THEM) and squeezed the Rockets for more money.He overplayed his hand.I’m sorry to see him go, but I’ll get over it.Like most fans, by tomorrow, I will have talked myself into believing that it was the right basketball decision.In fact, I’m halfway there already.And face it guys, the vast majority of you who are threatening to leave for the Nets won’t do it.
    P.S.Can someone please send Felton a treadmill and some P90X DVDs?Thanks.

  93. Frank

    Brian Cronin:
    What is up with no one in the media picking up on the stretch provision angle until today, three days into the discussion? That was really weird. It was almost like no one wanted to write about it until another established NBA writer wrote about it. Once someone did, then everyone started writing about it.

    you should have written a Legends Revealed and snuck it in somehow.

    I doubt Grunwald didn’t know about the stretch provision. This is his job and his livelihood, and he has seemed pretty competent until this decision. This is a straight up call that they don’t think Lin is good. It’s just shocking.

  94. max fisher-cohen

    Frank: Look – I think this whole thing is stupid too. But the overwhelmingly correct choice won’t be apparent probably until mid-season next year.What I can say for sure, though, is that THIS choice is STUPID. If you’re even considering letting him go, you need to get SOMETHING for him.Now we have nothing.

    Looking at things retrospectively is foolish. If Eddy Curry had woken up after his first morning in NYC with the mentality and game of Shaq and led us to 18 straight championships with d-league talent around him, playing at all-NBA level through age 44, would it make the trade any smarter at the time? No, it would just mean the team was epically lucky.

  95. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Because he is directly involved with basketball related operations, I hold him accountable as well. Still, the release option before year three should be a point of vehement disagreement between Dolan and anyone in his front office with half a brain. I don’t care that he’s the boss; it’s a terrible personnel move and since they’ll (Grunwald, et al.) will get the boot after they get bounced from the first round over the next few years, they might as well stick their necks out now for a chance for future income.

    That’s guilt by association. I know for a fact Warkentein is a very smart man….. We don’t know the extent to which the FO fought this… Let’s also remember that in these kinds of small group dynamics, you’re going to get flacky’s who will side with Dolan to improve their own situation with he and MSG.

    That’s the power of corruption.

  96. dogrufus

    arthurprescott2:
    I understand the frustration, but to jump ship now? Yes, this might be the feather that broke the camel’s back (your belief in this team), but that said, Knicks will still be in contention for #3-4 seed though the brick wall that is Miami will not be overcome (barring fluke injuries).

    Who the fuck cares? We have zero chance of beating any of the top teams or winning 55+. The best we can possibly do is give Miami a tough series and hate life because we know Lin could have put us over the top. Instead we’ll be relying on a fucking tubby mediocrity of a bottom 5 starting PG, an ancient wifebeating drunk for his backup, and a 35 year old rookie who never even showed NBA talent in his prime.

    This is the worst guard rotation in the league! The worst by a lot! We’ll have a bottom 5-10 offense, a defense that’s good only because of Chandler, and we’ll be Hawks East. No hope, no future, team full of unlikeable assholes except Chandler, Novak, and Shump (who will never be the same).

  97. Caleb

    You can’t make this stuff up. This is like tie-game, 3 FTs to win it and you brick them all, lose in OT. Or running down to make a game-winning uncontested layup and tripping over your shoelaces.

    Jon Abbey was right – there is no hope while Jim Dolan owns the team.

    Best case scenario: we’ve cut a Kevin McHale deal with J.R. Smith and when Stern gets wind of the promise a certain someone gets a lifetime ban… it would be worth losing a pile of draft picks.

    But who am I kidding, it’ll never happen.

  98. JK47

    Deep playoff run my ass. This team– the Melo/Stat Knicks– will never win a playoff series.

  99. ruruland

    Brian Cronin:
    What is up with no one in the media picking up on the stretch provision angle until today, three days into the discussion? That was really weird. It was almost like no one wanted to write about it until another established NBA writer wrote about it. Once someone did, then everyone started writing about it.

    That’s how it works. The top posters on this board, and we have a few of them, are both smarter and are more knowledgeable than the vast majority of these guys…..

    Sure, a few exceptions, but this is the place to get real analysis.

    Journalism has become pr over the last 40 years.

  100. SSS

    I will say this, there are only 3 reasons why I’m undecided as to whether to continue following the NBA (I don’t consider jumping teams an option):

    1) Chandler
    2) Shump
    3) this site

  101. BigBlueAL

    Im sure it means nothing but seeing all these pics being tweeted of Dolan/Woodson/JR Smith/Amar’e all smiling and laughing while Grunwald looks depressed.

  102. Caleb

    DRed:
    Don’t worry, everyone.We’re going to get CP3 in a couple years. . .

    I suspect you’re right, in 2015 when he’s 30 on two crippled knees.

  103. ruruland

    dogrufus: Who the fuck cares?We have zero chance of beating any of the top teams or winning 55+.The best we can possibly do is give Miami a tough series and hate life because we know Lin could have put us over the top.Instead we’ll be relying on a fucking tubby mediocrity of a bottom 5 starting PG, an ancient wifebeating drunk for his backup, and a 35 year old rookie who never even showed NBA talent in his prime.

    This is the worst guard rotation in the league!The worst by a lot!We’ll have a bottom 5-10 offense, a defense that’s good only because of Chandler, and we’ll be Hawks East.No hope, no future, team full of unlikeable assholes except Chandler, Novak, and Shump (who will never be the same).

    Felton won’t be that bad. Kidd is still a great quarterback, and you’ve got two potentially very good shooting guards….

    I think ceiling came down 5-6 games this year… But I can see 55-56 wins if things go very well.

  104. Frank

    max fisher-cohen: Looking at things retrospectively is foolish. If Eddy Curry had woken up after his first morning in NYC with the mentality and game of Shaq and led us to 18 straight championships with d-league talent around him, playing at all-NBA level through age 44, would it make the trade any smarter at the time? No, it would just mean the team was epically lucky.

    That’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever read here. If Isiah was able to predict that Curry become Shaq and he did that, how is that not a smart trade?

    You should read Michael Lewis’s book – The Big Short. It’s about guys who made trades that looked stupid by conventional wisdom, then they became billionaires when they were right. Choices can only be evaluated in retrospect. Like the Houston Texans picking Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush, when 99% of the media thought Bush was the greatest thing since sliced bread. It was the right choice, and it was smart.

  105. SeeWhyDee77

    This only sucks to me cuz I hoped to see Woodson start Kidd at the 2 while Lin starts at the point. Seriously..a Felton/Kidd/Prigs triumvirate can’t be that bad can it? Lol..I know Felton had a horrible season and is prone to bad shooting nights..but the hope here is that he runs the offense and tightens his shot selection up. Still..i’d rather Lin be option 3 rather than Earl. Woodson told Melo to get in shape..will he say the same thing to Felton? Dude looks like a bowling ball. Like he should be a RB in tha NFL.

  106. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    JK47:
    Deep playoff run my ass. This team– the Melo/Stat Knicks– will never win a playoff series.

    WHOA, BLOOD OF MY BLOOD

  107. ruruland

    JK47:
    Deep playoff run my ass. This team– the Melo/Stat Knicks– will never win a playoff series.

    You better not run from this statement in trolldom.

  108. johnlocke

    I’ll be dating Kate Upton in a couple years too..

    DRed:
    Don’t worry, everyone.We’re going to get CP3 in a couple years. . .

  109. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: You better not run from this statement in trolldom.

    You also better not come up with some long winded explanation for why his prediction was right. You know, a lot like you did when I predicted the Knicks’ record this year…

  110. johnlocke

    I take back what I said to whoever gave Dolan’s shorter life expectancy as a sign of hope to which I said this is the “coldest, crudest thing I’ve ever heard”. I now share your feelings…apologies for my stupidity yesterday.

    ABG:
    I’ve gone from waiting for Jim Dolan to die to praying for it.

  111. yehudi3000

    You guys are crazy. I love(d) Lin, but with Kid and Felton this team still be beter from the team that lost to Miami.
    I think we still got a chance to be realy good.

    Just hope for the best.

    And i think there is still a chance of matching. Just wait.

  112. personifa

    Hi everyone,

    I’m Asian American. I grew in NYC (Forest Hills) until middle school, when I moved to California and have been living since then. While I’ve always taken pride as a New Yorker and casually cheered on the Knicks/Yankees, it wasn’t until February that I became a diehard basketball fan. I never missed a single game, I read every single knickerblogger recap, I refreshed bleacher report a million times a day.

    I’m pretty upset Lin is gone. I’m not the type to ever post in a topic like this (I’m never vocal online), but this has brought me out of the woodworks. I don’t care nearly enough about the Rockets (even with Lin) to follow their games like I did the Knicks, and I don’t care nearly enough about the Knicks sans Lin to follow Knicks games like I used to. It’s a shitty place to be in right now!

  113. ruruland

    BigBlueAL:
    Im sure it means nothing but seeing all these pics being tweeted of Dolan/Woodson/JR Smith/Amar’e all smiling and laughing while Grunwald looks depressed.

    Post please.

  114. DRed

    Frank: That’s the weirdest thing I’ve ever read here.If Isiah was able to predict that Curry become Shaq and he did that, how is that not a smart trade?

    You should read Michael Lewis’s book – The Big Short. It’s about guys who made trades that looked stupid by conventional wisdom, then they became billionaires when they were right.Choices can only be evaluated in retrospect.Like the Houston Texans picking Mario Williams instead of Reggie Bush, when 99% of the media thought Bush was the greatest thing since sliced bread.It was the right choice, and it was smart.

    Wrong. It was the smart choice because a good defensive lineman is much harder to find than a running back. The process was right.

  115. garfangle

    The problem with your analogy that Dolan thinks Lin is a flash in the pan is that they were prepared to sign him for only $6M less in year 3 his contract and make him the started no questions asked.

    Frank: I don’t think that’s a good analogy. The better analogy is selling a stock that you are pretty sure will tank while everyone else thinks it’s getting ready to blow up.If you’re right, you’re a genius. If you’re wrong and everyone else is right, you’re an idiot.

    I think the Knicks are being idiots right now.

    BUT-

    If they’re right, and Lin ends up being bad (which I don’t think is what will happen) – and not just bad, but BAD – then the marketing goes away, the off-court stuff goes away.And then you’re left with a crappy contract that no one wants, and luxury tax that needs to be paid even if it’s made better by the stretch provision.

    Look, I’m not saying I agree with any of this – I don’t think he’ll be bad – but if he IS bad, then they will have been proven right.

    It’s just weird though. How often does a GM give up on a diamond in the rough that he found? They usually hold onto those guys like trophies forever. So this HAS to be Dolan and it has to be personal.

  116. BigBlueAL

    Hahn just talked about the reports online about Lin leaving. He did stress that no final decision has been made.

  117. Aharon

    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    *crying sounds*
    (that’s as articulate as I can be right now- when does acceptance come into play?)

  118. Ben R

    The thing that got me through all the lean years were having young likeable players I could root for even when the team sucked or was full of assholes. Sweetney, Lee, Gallo, Lin they were the light in an otherwise dark room for a long time. Now we might be better than the 2000 era teams but we are certainly no more likeable and honestly have about the same chance of winning a championship.

  119. arthurprescott2

    BigBlueAL:
    Im sure it means nothing but seeing all these pics being tweeted of Dolan/Woodson/JR Smith/Amar’e all smiling and laughing while Grunwald looks depressed.

    Link?

  120. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: You also better not come up with some long winded explanation for why his prediction was right. You know, a lot like you did when I predicted the Knicks’ record this year…

    Please. You’re above sophistry.

  121. Jafa

    yehudi3000:
    You guys are crazy. I love(d) Lin, but with Kid and Felton this team still be beter from the team that lost to Miami.
    I think we still got a chance to be realy good.

    Just hope for the best.

    And i think there is still a chance of matching. Just wait.

    We were once this naive and ignored all reasonable signs of the inevitable. Hang in there buddy. Keep hope alive.

  122. BigBlueAL

    ruruland: Post please.

    I think Nate Taylor of the NY Times posted a bunch but I dont follow him just saw them RT’ed. Also Im watching the Summer Legaue game and they have shown them in the stands alot (although not Dolan).

  123. ruruland

    Colin Cowherd just said the reason the Knicks aren’t matching is because Melo doesn’t like Lin. I’m going to fucking blast this guy relentlessly.. all these fucking fools.

  124. Brian Cronin

    It really has to be Dolan, because Grunwald would not have let it get to this point. Going into the offseason, the odds of Lin getting a deal with a “poison pill” third year had to be high. Once Asik specifically got one of those deals, the Knicks absolutely had to know it was a possibility. Therefore, if they knew Houston was interested and the Knicks were planning on letting Lin go if there was a poison pill third year, they would have offered him to Houston in a sign and trade for the MAX that the Knicks were able to pay (4 years/$24 million). Houston would obviously not outbid that contract, seeing as how this way they’d be guaranteed to get Lin (and at a lower salary, even). So the Knicks would then get something, even if it was, like, a first rounder three years from now or whatever (or hell, a couple of second rounders).

    That they didn’t do that sure does suggest that the Knicks knew about the likelihood of the poison pill and still planned on matching.

    Until Dolan got involved, of course.

  125. ABG

    ruruland:
    Colin Cowherd just said the reason the Knicks aren’t matching is because Melo doesn’t like Lin. I’m going to fucking blast this guy relentlessly.. all these fucking fools.

    Don’t blame the unruly child who screams and interrupts your dinner. He’s just doing what he can get away with.

  126. BigBlueAL

    Its obvious this is all about spite and money from the revised contract offer sheet not their belief in Lin considering last week Woodson was talking about Lin is the starting PG and they will definitely bring Lin back.

  127. Thomas B.

    ruruland: That’s how it works. The top posters on this board, and we have a few of them, are both smarter and are more knowledgeable than the vast majority of these guys…..

    Sure, a few exceptions, but this is the place to get real analysis.

    Journalism has become pr over the last 40 years.

    Aww gee thanks but I’m hardly a “top poster.”

  128. ephus

    I am waiting until the morning to break the bad news to my daughter. If this is the final word, nothing is lost by waiting. If a miracle occurs, I will have spared her one unnecessary heartache.

  129. daJudge

    Maybe we are all (including Beck) just being played at this point. I mean we are all tuned in now—right? Probably stupid, but I guess we will know soon. How come the team didn’t let Hahn break the story for Newsday?

  130. rohank

    Aharon:
    BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
    *crying sounds*
    (that’s as articulate as I can be right now- when does acceptance come into play?)

    I’m pretty sure I’m still in denial and will be till I see him in a rockets jersey

  131. dogrufus

    ruruland: Felton won’t be that bad. Kidd is still a great quarterback, and you’ve got two potentially very good shooting guards….

    I think ceiling came down 5-6 games this year… But I can see 55-56 wins if things go very well.

    Actually, Felton is that bad. He’s never been above average at any point in his career except playing D’Antoni ball with us, which he won’t be doing. That stretch was characterized by him shooting hot and hitting way more off the dribble and midrange shots, which opened the offense for Amare as well. At his usual shooting clip, Felton is fucking useless. There’s literally nothing above average about his game and in this era of great PGs trotting out this shit as our starter is pathetic.

    Oh, and Kidd fucking sucks too, even assuming he’s healthy and sober at the ripe age of 88. His 3 point shooting has fallen off a cliff, and considering he only takes WIDE FUCKING OPEN ones his percentages are pathetic. There’s no way he hits over 30% here because we don’t have a Dirk to get him open looks. When Kidd is in we are 4 on 5 on offense. Think Mike Bibby.

    And where’s your second very good shooting guard? I count one potentially average on in JR, who by the way is a complete headcase and douchebag with consistent bad decision making and low IQ. Where’s the second? The same Kidd who was one of the worst scoring threats in the league three years ago?

  132. Caleb

    ruruland:
    Colin Cowherd just said the reason the Knicks aren’t matching is because Melo doesn’t like Lin. I’m going to fucking blast this guy relentlessly.. all these fucking fools.

    I don’t blame Melo for this decision, but do you doubt that if he asked for Lin to come back, Lin would be back?

  133. Brian Cronin

    And yes, this is unlikely a statement on Lin’s talents when they were thrilled to sign him for #9 million in year three and name him the starter before training camp even began.

    “Lin’s great at $9 million in year three, but $15 million in year three, he’s garbage!” – Words no one would ever say.

  134. Spree8nyk8

    I could throw a dart at a list of NBA franchises and have about a 90% chance of hitting a team that is going to win a title before this franchise does.

  135. Caleb

    Brian Cronin:
    It really has to be Dolan, because Grunwald would not have let it get to this point. Going into the offseason, the odds of Lin getting a deal with a “poison pill” third year had to be high. Once Asik specifically got one of those deals, the Knicks absolutely had to know it was a possibility. Therefore, if they knew Houston was interested and the Knicks were planning on letting Lin go if there was a poison pill third year, they would have offered him to Houston in a sign and trade for the MAX that the Knicks were able to pay (4 years/$24 million). Houston would obviously not outbid that contract, seeing as how this way they’d be guaranteed to get Lin (and at a lower salary, even). So the Knicks would then get something, even if it was, like, a first rounder three years from now or whatever (or hell, a couple of second rounders).

    That they didn’t do that sure does suggest that the Knicks knew about the likelihood of the poison pill and still planned on matching.

    Until Dolan got involved, of course.

    If Grunwald has a second nut he’ll be leaving soon to spend more time with his family, or with Donnie Walsh.

    That might have been part of this, anyway. Wasn’t he a Walsh hire? And Warkentien is with CAA?

  136. SSS

    rohank: I’m pretty sure I’m still in denial and will be till I see him in a rockets jersey

    Agreed. I think the next post on this site needs to address the stages of grief.

  137. BigBlueAL

    Caleb: If Grunwald has a second nut he’ll be leaving soon to spend more time with his family, or with Donnie Walsh.

    That might have been part of this, anyway. Wasn’t he a Walsh hire? And Warkentien is with CAA?

    Actually Grunwald was an Isiah hire.

  138. errkgolub

    Once a Knicks fan, always a Knicks fan. Good or Bad. Mostly Bad. So much hurt will make our championship (however long it takes) taste so much better. Those who convert will never feel the satisfaction that a true fan will feel. Orange and Blue through and through

  139. johnlocke

    What was your beef with George? He actually used his money to get great players and we won championships, the antithesis of the Knicks.

    ephus:
    Even if this is the final answer, I will continue to root for the Knicks in spite of their owner, much as I rooted for the Yankees in spite of George Steinbrenner from 1992 until his death.

    In 1983, as young teen, I abandoned the Yankees in favor of the cellar-dwelling (but hopeful) Mets, because I could not stand to root for a team owned by George Steinbrenner.I got the joy of watching Daryl Strawberry come to the Mets in 83, Dwigh Gooden’s arrival, the 1986 World Series and the heartbreak of 1988.But when the Mets devolved into Worst Team Money Could Buy, I followed my heart back to the Yankees.

    It’s a different calculus for me now.I have bonded with my nine-year old daughter over the Knicks.I understand why others decide the heartache is not worth it, but I will not be joining you. For good or for bad (mostly bad), the Knicks are my team.I will miss those who leave.

  140. johnno

    Of course, you are ignoring the fact that his agent made it quite clear that he wouldn’t sign a deal at the max that the Knicks could offer and the Rockets didn’t need to trade anything to the Knicks when they could simply outbid them.
    Everyone is also ignoring one thing — Lin also betrayed Woodson after Woodson told him that the Knicks would match his deal and named him the starter. Can the head coach trust a guy who would screw him like that?

    Brian Cronin: It really has to be Dolan, because Grunwald would not have let it get to this point. Going into the offseason, the odds of Lin getting a deal with a “poison pill” third year had to be high. Once Asik specifically got one of those deals, the Knicks absolutely had to know it was a possibility. Therefore, if they knew Houston was interested and the Knicks were planning on letting Lin go if there was a poison pill third year, they would have offered him to Houston in a sign and trade for the MAX that the Knicks were able to pay (4 years/$24 million). Houston would obviously not outbid that contract, seeing as how this way they’d be guaranteed to get Lin (and at a lower salary, even). So the Knicks would then get something, even if it was, like, a first rounder three years from now or whatever (or hell, a couple of second rounders). That they didn’t do that sure does suggest that the Knicks knew about the likelihood of the poison pill and still planned on matching. Until Dolan got involved, of course.

  141. PrecociousNeophyte

    I can’t believe this came down to $6M tacked on in year 3.

    Mind you the Knicks will we paying a 41 year old Jason Kidd and 30 year old Raymond Felton $6M that year.

  142. johnlocke

    Ummm…I’m a Giants fan, I know how snatching victory from the jaws of defeat feels — it feels awesome. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is just asinine and is what defines the Knicks and their stupid ownership

    errkgolub:
    Once a Knicks fan, always a Knicks fan. Good or Bad. Mostly Bad. So much hurt will make our championship (however long it takes) taste so much better. Those who convert will never feel the satisfaction that a true fan will feel. Orange and Blue through and through

  143. Brian Cronin

    Of course, you are ignoring the fact that his agent made it quite clear that he wouldn’t sign a deal at the max that the Knicks could offer and the Rockets didn’t need to trade anything to the Knicks when they could simply outbid them.
    Everyone is also ignoring one thing — Lin also betrayed Woodson after Woodson told him that the Knicks would match his deal and named him the starter. Can the head coach trust a guy who would screw him like that?

    Houston cannot outbid the Knicks. The Knicks can match anything they offer. The only way they could guarantee they’d get Lin is a sign and trade.

  144. alsep73

    Camel’s back, meet straw. I can’t stay invested in a franchise whose owner will inevitably find a way to ruin everything, up to and including a miracle player who fell out of the sky.

    This is a great blog, but I need to cut the chord on all things Knick.

  145. garfangle

    The thing is the unless Lin completely is overwhelmed in Houston, he’ll likely put up better numbers because he’ll be the primary scoring option for the Rockets assuming the don’t get Howard. I could easily see him putting up 23-7-4-1 (pts-ast-rb-st) next year. That is not to say the Rockets will be more than a .500 ball club or worse.

  146. Brian Cronin

    Camel’s back, meet straw. I can’t stay invested in a franchise whose owner will inevitably find a way to ruin everything, up to and including a miracle player who fell out of the sky.

    This is a great blog, but I need to cut the chord on all things Knick.

    We’ll still have fun this season! If only in snarky comments about the Knicks not having Lin. ;)

  147. Caleb

    BigBlueAL: Actually Grunwald was an Isiah hire.

    You may be right – I think they were in Toronto together, no? But they came up with Walsh in Indiana, I think… not sure who actually hired him here. He seemed to come out of the woodwork.

  148. Thomas B.

    garfangle:
    The thing is the unless Lin completely is overwhelmed in Houston, he’ll likely put up better numbers because he’ll be the primary scoring option for the Rockets assuming the don’t get Howard.I could easily see him putting up 23-7-4-1 (pts-ast-rb-st) next year.That is not to say the Rockets will be more than a .500 ball club or worse.

    And how many turnovers?
    What will his TS% be?
    How about his defense?
    What will he do against Westbrook, Parker, Paul?

  149. ephus

    Brian Cronin:
    It really has to be Dolan, because Grunwald would not have let it get to this point. Going into the offseason, the odds of Lin getting a deal with a “poison pill” third year had to be high. Once Asik specifically got one of those deals, the Knicks absolutely had to know it was a possibility. Therefore, if they knew Houston was interested and the Knicks were planning on letting Lin go if there was a poison pill third year, they would have offered him to Houston in a sign and trade for the MAX that the Knicks were able to pay (4 years/$24 million). Houston would obviously not outbid that contract, seeing as how this way they’d be guaranteed to get Lin (and at a lower salary, even). So the Knicks would then get something, even if it was, like, a first rounder three years from now or whatever (or hell, a couple of second rounders).

    That they didn’t do that sure does suggest that the Knicks knew about the likelihood of the poison pill and still planned on matching.

    Until Dolan got involved, of course.

    That does seem to be the most likely explanation, given the available evidence.

    Lin (and his advisers) maximized the value to him. If Lin had demanded (and received) the full poison pill offer during the Moratorium, the Knicks would have had time to cut a deal with the Rockets for a sign-and-trade at 4 years/$24 million. By waiting until he could actually sign an offer sheet to make his final pitch, Lin guaranteed that the Rockets and Knicks could not cut a side-deal to reduce his salary to their benefit.

  150. arthurprescott2

    Brian Cronin: We’ll still have fun this season! If only in snarky comments about the Knicks not having Lin. ;)

    I’ll be here specifically for the Felton jokes. :)

  151. Ben R

    The bright side is in 2018 when we’ve rebuilt and have a promising young nucleus we can gut the team for a maxed out Jeremy Lin that only wants to play in NY with his buddy a recently signed maxed out Landry Fields.

  152. Garson

    Can we start a movement to get 19,000 fans in msg to wear those Lin masks popularized during linsanity?

  153. errkgolub

    johnlocke:
    Ummm…I’m a Giants fan, I know how snatching victory from the jaws of defeat feels — it feels awesome.Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory is just asinine and is what defines the Knicks and their stupid ownership

    Well put. It sucks, but I can’t flip flop. I’m a young Knicks fan (23) and haven’t given up on the Knicks since I watched Sprewell nail his first 8 three pointers against the Celtics. My only hope is Dolan dies before I’m 50 and I can watch the Knicks win a championship with my preteen children.

  154. BigBlueAL

    Hahn on air questioning Lin’s desire to really be a Knick with the change contract offer sheet. Let the spin truly being??

  155. johnno

    Yes they can, and they did. But you are STILL ignoring the fact that Lin would not have agreed to a sign and trade at 4/24! This is NOT the Knicks’ fault. It is Lin’s fault!

    Brian Cronin: Houston cannot outbid the Knicks. The Knicks can match anything they offer. The only way they could guarantee they’d get Lin is a sign and trade.

  156. Robtachi

    Direct quote from my girlfriend:

    “I have no reason to watch the Knicks anymore.”

    That is the direct cause and effect of this blunder. She is one of millions upon millions of fans who’s sole reason for maintaining interest in the Knicks was tied to Lin. She was a dedicated fan while Jordan was playing and lost interest in the game after his final retirement, only to be rekindled by the magic that was Linsanity. THAT’S how profound his effect was. And THAT’S what Dolan has simply flushed down the toilet. Unbelievable heights of stupidity.

  157. johnno

    Hahn is right! If Lin wanted to be a Knick, he would be a Knick! Plain and simple!

    BigBlueAL: Hahn on air questioning Lin’s desire to really be a Knick with the change contract offer sheet. Let the spin truly being??

  158. ephus

    johnlocke:
    What was your beef with George? He actually used his money to get great players and we won championships, the antithesis of the Knicks.

    The 1981 elevator incident with the Dodger fans. The 1982 “speed” roster. The ugliness of Reggie Jackson’s exit. Reading the behind-the-scenes revelations by Billy Martin, Sparky Lyle, Nettles and others.

  159. Brian Cronin

    Yes they can, and they did. But you are STILL ignoring the fact that Lin would not have agreed to a sign and trade at 4/24! This is NOT the Knicks’ fault. It is Lin’s fault!

    Lin would have had to agree to the sign and trade because if the Knicks were proactive, he wouldn’t have a bigger offer. The only bigger offer was from Houston, who the Knicks would have made their sign and trade deal with, therefore the bigger offer would not be there.

  160. Jafa

    Thomas B.: And how many turnovers?
    What will his TS% be?
    How about his defense?
    What will he do against Westbrook, Parker, Paul?

    Thomas,

    Lin does not have to even make the playoffs to make this decision look bad. He does not even have to be better than what he has shown to make us look bad. He just need to be consistent.

    If he plays just the same way he did here over the course of a season, we already lost.

  161. ruruland

    dogrufus: Actually, Felton is that bad.He’s never been above average at any point in his career except playing D’Antoni ball with us, which he won’t be doing.That stretch was characterized by him shooting hot and hitting way more off the dribble and midrange shots, which opened the offense for Amare as well.At his usual shooting clip, Felton is fucking useless.There’s literally nothing above average about his game and in this era of great PGs trotting out this shit as our starter is pathetic.

    Oh, and Kidd fucking sucks too, even assuming he’s healthy and sober at the ripe age of 88.His 3 point shooting has fallen off a cliff, and considering he only takes WIDE FUCKING OPEN ones his percentages are pathetic.There’s no way he hits over 30% here because we don’t have a Dirk to get him open looks.When Kidd is in we are 4 on 5 on offense.Think Mike Bibby.

    And where’s your second very good shooting guard?I count one potentially average on in JR, who by the way is a complete headcase and douchebag with consistent bad decision making and low IQ.Where’s the second?The same Kidd who was one of the worst scoring threats in the league three years ago?

    Melo creates as many doubles as Dirk does.

    Kidd’s ability to make others better in a variety of ways is goingto add a lot. despite middling efficiency and low point production Carlisle couldn’t keep him off the court…

    The guy is a genius. Shumpert and Smith, assuming full health, will be a dynamite sg combo,,, not top 5, but very goood.

    this idea that the Knicks will be worse on offense with Kidd is insanity…… I don’t have the time to re-explain why he’s such a good addition. Whatever you want to think at this point, I don’t care.

  162. johnlocke

    Dude, it’s over. I have an unshaken belief in the stupidity and childishness of Dolan. He’ll come through and verify, via one of his lapdogs, that Lin has not been matched, you’ll see.

    daJudge:
    Meanwhile, we’ve got nothing official yet.

  163. BigBlueAL

    ephus: The 1981 elevator incident with the Dodger fans.The 1982 “speed” roster.The ugliness of Reggie Jackson’s exit.Reading the behind-the-scenes revelations by Billy Martin, Sparky Lyle, Nettles and others.

    Trading Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!!

  164. PrecociousNeophyte

    I wonder why Hahn never questioned Carmelo’s desire to be a Knick despite using the Nets to leverage the Knicks into gutting their team and making sure he got paid before the lockout.

    Smear campaign just getting started.

  165. arthurprescott2

    johnno:
    Yes they can, and they did.But you are STILL ignoring the fact that Lin would not have agreed to a sign and trade at 4/24!This is NOT the Knicks’ fault.It is Lin’s fault!

    So you’re placing blame on Lin based on your own personal assessment that he would not have signed an offer from the Knicks (which never happened). Ok.

  166. sourdoughboy

    That annoyed me too. But I am finding that:

    (1) It would be very sensible for Lin to prefer playing for the Rockets organization than playing for our beloved and deeply dysfunctional Knicks.

    (2) Thinking that Lin would prefer to play for the Rockets–minus all the “double-cross” nonsesne–is helping me get over my immense frustration. There’s a good chance that this is what Lin wants, so I’m happy he’s going to a place that’s probably a better fit for him anyway.

    BigBlueAL:
    Hahn on air questioning Lin’s desire to really be a Knick with the change contract offer sheet.Let the spin truly being??

  167. ephus

    BigBlueAL: Trading Jay Buhner for Ken Phelps!!

    That came years after I left the Yankees, and I cited it constantly as validation of my decision to leave.

  168. johnno

    They could not force him to sign a 4/24 deal. If they offered it to him, he would have turned around and “shopped it” to the Rockets who would have offered him a deal with a poison pill. Do you really think that they would have given the Knicks any of the precious assets that they’ve been hoarding for Dwight Howard. I know that everyone is desperate to conclude that the Knicks’ front office is incompetent, but you are simply wrong. And, as much as I feel like the Knicks should spend all the money that I want then to spend, I really can’t say that it was stupid not to do so.

    Brian Cronin: Lin would have had to agree to the sign and trade because if the Knicks were proactive, he wouldn’t have a bigger offer. The only bigger offer would be from Houston, who the Knicks would have made their sign and trade deal with.

  169. garfangle

    What was the starting lineup during Linsanity? That is about what Houston will offer for him to run the show.

    Thomas B.: And how many turnovers?
    What will his TS% be?
    How about his defense?
    What will he do against Westbrook, Parker, Paul?

  170. thenamestsam

    johnno:
    Yes they can, and they did.But you are STILL ignoring the fact that Lin would not have agreed to a sign and trade at 4/24!This is NOT the Knicks’ fault.It is Lin’s fault!

    So lets go over this. The Knicks told him explicitly (and announced to the world) that they were going to let the market set Lin’s price and then they were going to match. Then Lin went to the market and the market set his price. Then the Knicks didn’t match. And this is Lin’s fault? I’m sorry, I’m really not clear on how you’re reaching this conclusion.

  171. Brian Cronin

    They could not force him to sign a 4/24 deal. If they offered it to him, he would have turned around and “shopped it” to the Rockets who would have offered him a deal with a poison pill. Do you really think that they would have given the Knicks any of the precious assets that they’ve been hoarding for Dwight Howard. I know that everyone is desperate to conclude that the Knicks’ front office is incompetent, but you are simply wrong. And, as much as I feel like the Knicks should spend all the money that I want then to spend, I really can’t say that it was stupid not to do so.

    Again, if the Rockets really wanted him, the only way they could guarantee they’d get him is a sign and trade. Note that the Rockets were proceeding under the impression that the Knicks were matching. So if the Knicks offered them a chance to guarantee they would get Lin for less money and all they’d have to give up is…anything (as, again, the Knicks are getting nothing here) then they would not turn that down.

  172. 2FOR18

    ruruland: Melo creates as many doubles as Dirk does.

    Kidd’s ability to make others better in a variety of ways is goingto add a lot. despite middling efficiency and low point production Carlisle couldn’t keep him off the court…

    The guy is a genius. Shumpert and Smith, assuming full health, will be a dynamite sg combo,,, not top 5, but very goood.

    this idea that the Knicks will be worse on offense with Kidd is insanity…… I don’t have the time to re-explain why he’s such a good addition. Whatever you want to think at this point, I don’t care.

    LMAO.. On cue. Though about 2400 words less than I predicted. Since you don’t have the time for such a post, can I subscribe to your newsletter?

    I look forward to the mental gymnastics you’ll be performing this coming season as the Knicks are on their way to 45 wins and a 6 seed. Probably something about reps, the Olympics, new pieces and shocking injuries to old fat players.

  173. Caleb

    ruruland: not top 5…

    We can agree on at least one thing!

    ruruland:

    this idea that the Knicks will be worse on offense with Kidd is insanity…… I don’t have the time to re-explain why he’s such a good addition. Whatever you want to think at this point, I don’t care.

    Knicks with Kidd at PG should be better than they were with Baron Davis or Shump at the point, but they certainly won’t be better than they were with Lin at the point.

    It isn’t 2002… Kidd was a backup for an 8-seed last year (with a mediocre offense) and he’s almost 39 years old.

  174. BigBlueAL

    ephus: That came years after I left the Yankees, and I cited it constantly as validation of my decision to leave.

    When did you leave exactly in the mid-80′s?? Watching Mattingly alone from 1984-1987 shouldve been worth staying a fan. 1988-1992 wouldve been a good time to bail lol

  175. Brian Cronin

    LMAO.. On cue. Though about 2400 words less than I predicted. Since you don’t have the time for such a post, can I subscribe to your newsletter?

    I look forward to the mental gymnastics you’ll be performing this coming season as the Knicks are on their way to 45 wins and a 6 seed. Probably something about reps, the Olympics, new pieces and shocking injuries to old fat players.

    I don’t think it is fair to give ruru shit for in effect agreeing with us. He agrees that this a terrible move by the Knicks. So you’re going to give him shit for thinking that the Knicks are going to have at least one good year where he allows that they won’t be a title contender? Why argue with people who are agreeing with you?

  176. Brian Cronin

    When did you leave exactly in the mid-80?s?? Watching Mattingly alone from 1984-1987 shouldve been worth staying a fan. 1988-1992 wouldve been a good time to bail lol

    I was just talking to a guy the other day about that walk-off home run by Balboni. Like, every good game the Yankees had in the early 1990s stuck in my mind because they were so rare. :)

  177. daJudge

    Ruru–I respect your stuff a great deal, but I am very down on Kidd. I know how great he has been and many will think this is irrelevant, but I don’t. Accident, DWI, breathalyzer refusal, god knows what his BAC was, sleeping pills, DV….Sorry, I personally need more from a professional who just signed with my team. BTW, Contrast David Diehl. This whole thing has a real bad stench and so does this team at this point. Sorry for the negativity and sure, we have talent with or without Lin. Rootability means much more to me and I doubt I’m in the minority.

  178. Degree_Absolute

    sourdoughboy: I’m happy he’s going to a place that’s probably a better fit for him anyway.

    I like that. Yes, he is in a better place now – with all his friends and a million puppies and he can eat all the ice cream he wants.

    Strange how the tragedy that is being a Knicks fan has made me understand the very real human need for a Heaven. Religion makes sense to me now. Thank you James Dolan!!!!

  179. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin: I was just talking to a guy the other day about that walk-off home run by Balboni. Like, every good game the Yankees had in the early 1990s stuck in my mind because they were so rare. :)

    Mel Hall hit a walk-off HR vs the Red Sox on a holiday I remember lol

  180. Ben R

    Congratulations Jeremy Lin!

    Though I do believe you truly wanted to return to the Knicks our stupidity has sent you to Houston where you will not be undermined by your teammates and your unimaginative coach, where you will not be picked at by a fickle media and not be moved at a later date by our moronic owner.

    You will get to run the offense you should be running with other young exciting players or even better with Dwight Howard a player better and more valuable than our entire “big 3″ combined.

  181. Robtachi

    ephus:
    Even if this is the final answer, I will continue to root for the Knicks in spite of their owner, much as I rooted for the Yankees in spite of George Steinbrenner from 1992 until his death.

    In 1983, as young teen, I abandoned the Yankees in favor of the cellar-dwelling (but hopeful) Mets, because I could not stand to root for a team owned by George Steinbrenner.I got the joy of watching Daryl Strawberry come to the Mets in 83, Dwigh Gooden’s arrival, the 1986 World Series and the heartbreak of 1988.But when the Mets devolved into Worst Team Money Could Buy, I followed my heart back to the Yankees.

    It’s a different calculus for me now.I have bonded with my nine-year old daughter over the Knicks.I understand why others decide the heartache is not worth it, but I will not be joining you. For good or for bad (mostly bad), the Knicks are my team.I will miss those who leave.

    ephus the key difference, and you have to know this, is that hate him or not, The Boss did everything, spent everything at his disposal, to put a winner on the field and was god damn successful at it (well, from 1994-onwards).

  182. Brian Cronin

    Mel Hall hit a walk-off HR vs the Red Sox on a holiday I remember lol

    YES! I totally remember that! See what I mean?

    By the way, Balboni’s home run wasn’t a walk-off. It was just a go-ahead homer in the ninth.

  183. 2FOR18

    ephus: The 1981 elevator incident with the Dodger fans.The 1982 “speed” roster.The ugliness of Reggie Jackson’s exit.Reading the behind-the-scenes revelations by Billy Martin, Sparky Lyle, Nettles and others.

    Ha! Dave Collins replacing my hero Reggie in RF!
    They did some good years in the mid 80′s until Mattingly’s back injury. The Henderson, Mattingly, Winfield teams were fun to watch, though we never had any pitching.

  184. BigBlueAL

    BTW Brian my first real memories of following the Yankees was being mad that Mattingly couldnt pass Boggs for the batting title in 1986 partly because Boggs sat out the final few games of the season which coincidentally was vs the Yankees in Boston. Also being excited that Righetti broke the saves record that weekend.

  185. johnlocke

    People are just pissed–myself included — it’s like we’re in the in-game Knickerblogger mode, which is much more emotional and visceral than non-game mode Knickerblogger mode. I have about 30 rants in this thread, so I’ll go back to work now. Felton better show up with 8 pack abs!

    Brian Cronin:
    I don’t think it is fair to give ruru shit for in effect agreeing with us. He agrees that this a terrible move by the Knicks. So you’re going to give him shit for thinking that the Knicks are going to have at least one good year where he allows that they won’t be a title contender? Why argue with people who are agreeing with you?

  186. BigBlueAL

    2FOR18: Ha! Dave Collins replacing my hero Reggie in RF!
    They did some good years in the mid 80?s until Mattingly’s back injury.The Henderson, Mattingly, Winfield teams were fun to watch, though we never had any pitching.

    I grew up on those teams. Loved Pagliarulo too. Righetti and Mattingly were my fave players as a little kid.

  187. Brian Cronin

    BTW Brian my first real memories of following the Yankees was being mad that Mattingly couldnt pass Boggs for the batting title in 1986 partly because Boggs sat out the final few games of the season which coincidentally was vs the Yankees in Boston. Also being excited that Righetti broke the saves record that weekend.

    Haha! Yeah, that was what rooting for a non-great team was like back in the day. You’d be celebrating stuff like Righetti’s save record. I know I sure was. It is sort of like us celebrating Lee’s tip-in or Crawford’s amazing game-winner against Denver or Marbury’s game-winner against Utah. You celebrate what you can get! :)

  188. thenamestsam

    johnno:
    They could not force him to sign a 4/24 deal.If they offered it to him, he would have turned around and “shopped it” to the Rockets who would have offered him a deal with a poison pill.Do you really think that they would have given the Knicks any of the precious assets that they’ve been hoarding for Dwight Howard.

    They couldn’t force him to sign it, but the Knicks had all the leverage. Not only could they match any deal, but every person in the entire world believed that they WOULD match any deal. It was a foregone conclusion. All the Knicks had to say to Houston (and every other team) was: “Look you can offer him whatever poison pill you want. We’re matching any offer up to a billion dollars. If you want to actually get him you’re making a deal with us.” If the Rockets call your bluff then you should actually match the damn contract and trade him in 3 months.

    The bottom line is this: The Knicks had something that other teams wanted that no one but the Knicks could get without the Knicks agreeing. And yet now we have nothing. That doesn’t seem like a failure to you?

  189. Kurt

    If Knicks really wanted to screw Houston, they would have matched Lin and Houston wouldn’t have a single point guard other than Tony Douglas.

  190. dogrufus

    ruruland: Melo creates as many doubles as Dirk does.

    Kidd’s ability to make others better in a variety of ways is goingto add a lot. despite middling efficiency and low point production Carlisle couldn’t keep him off the court…

    The guy is a genius. Shumpert and Smith, assuming full health, will be a dynamite sg combo,,, not top 5, but very goood.

    this idea that the Knicks will be worse on offense with Kidd is insanity…… I don’t have the time to re-explain why he’s such a good addition. Whatever you want to think at this point, I don’t care.

    Really? That we’d be worse on offense with Kidd than we would be with Lin is insanity? This is your argument now?

    And Melo draws doubles and creates open shots like Dirk does? Is that why our offense and shooting was complete shit all of last year except when Lin played? Even though we have the best 3pt shooter in the league?

  191. garfangle

    If the Rockets get Howard I could see a Lin-Howard combo akin to the Orlando Magic under Penny Hardaway-Shaq as the peak upside.

  192. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin: Haha! Yeah, that was what rooting for a non-great team was like back in the day. You’d be celebrating stuff like Righetti’s save record. I know I sure was. It is sort of like us celebrating Lee’s tip-in or Crawford’s amazing game-winner against Denver or Marbury’s game-winner against Utah. You celebrate what you can get! :)

    Favorite Knick moment from that horrible time was easily Crawford’s 52 pt game vs the Heat. AMAZING performance.

  193. ceh

    Thomas B.: And how many turnovers?
    What will his TS% be?
    How about his defense?
    What will he do against Westbrook, Parker, Paul?

    What will Felton and Kidd do against Westbrook, Parker, Paul? Combined TS? LOL

  194. Brian Cronin

    Really? That we’d be worse on offense with Kidd than we would be with Lin is insanity? This is your argument now?

    No, that they’d be worse on offense from last season. He agrees that they are worse than if they had Lin.

  195. er

    Good riddance to all the fraud fans who would jump ship after this but not the isaiah years wow ….don’t let the door hit you

  196. BigBlueAL

    ceh: What will Felton and Kidd do against Westbrook, Parker, Paul?Combined TS? LOL

    In fairness his point was Lin will be facing those type of PG’s on a nightly basis playing in the West. Felton/Kidd have much easier competition at the PG position playing in the East.

  197. BigBlueAL

    Great tweet by Nate Taylor:

    Amare Stoudemire just took a photo with a Knicks fan wearing a Jeremy Lin T-shirt before leaving the arena.

  198. SeeWhyDee77

    DING DING!!! DING DING!! DAMN!! Ok..yes..Dolan’s decisions r putrid. Yes Lin’s a good player with a higher ceiling than Felton. And no, Felton’s not an all star. But cmon..it’s not the end of the world!!! Count me as one of the many who wants to see Lin return. But Felton’s not a scrub. Kidd is old yes..but still productive. He had a bad year in a truncated season in which he was subjected to too many back to backs while still playing starter’s minutes. The reality is we’re gonna be ok at the point this year. Woulda been better with Lin..but alotta folks are acting like Felton/Kidd/Prigs are worse than Douglas/Bibby/Davis. People overreacting on the downside of playin Felton seem to fail to realize that MAYBE he took so many shots as a Knick because he was our 2nd option on offense. We gotta have faith and bet on him havin a bounce back year. Felton’s too smart to shoot more than Stat and Melo, so maybe he tightens up. Why on earth would we think that we won’t get competent PG play out of Felton and Kidd? I don’t trust Dolan, but I do trust a motivated Melo, an embarrassed Stat, a focused Chandler, a refreshed Kidd (since he doesn’t hafta play big minutes), and hopefully a rejuvenated Felton. Before Lin took the world by storm we were getting way below average PG play. No way we get the same with our current group. Granted, with Lin we could have possibly gotten even better PG play..but let’s not forget he still is very unproven. No one knows how well he will play. Not sayin Linsanity was a fluke..but seriously it was 25 games!! 25 games with no real scouting report. The 2 teams who actually thoroughly scouted him either torched him (Nets) or shut him down (Miami). I’m just sayin..besides we know Felton’s gonna score a little, pass well and shoot about 42%. He can improve on those #’s easy as teams double Stat and Melo. Let’s just all take a deep breath here and trust that Woody can get the team playin like they did when he took over, then we’ll…

  199. Brian Cronin

    Good riddance to all the fraud fans who would jump ship after this but not the isaiah years wow ….don’t let the door hit you

    In general, I agree. I’m never giving up on this team, no matter what awful decisions they make. And I agree that it is fair to say, “We rooted for some awful teams, we can root for this decent team.” But if guys are fed up, I also think that that’s fair enough. They thought the Knicks were getting past the Isiah-esque decisions and then the Knicks are right back to making Isiah-level decisions. I get that that could drive people away.

  200. formido

    Dammit. Lin on the Knicks was a combination I could root for. Lin on Houston? Ugh. Knicks under Dolan. Ugh.

    Time to find a new bandwagon.

  201. Brian Cronin

    The 2 teams who actually thoroughly scouted him either torched him (Nets) or shut him down (Miami).

    That is awesome. That is hilarious. “The two teams that did the best against him, they scouted him and not the other teams he did well against, including the teams that he played well against multiple times. They had no idea what was coming.” Come on, that’s just silly.

  202. garfangle

    when the Rockets play the Knicks next year who will you root for? Will you hope NY loses just to stick it to Dolan?

    Brian Cronin: In general, I agree. I’m never giving up on this team, no matter what awful decisions they make. And I agree that it is fair to say, “We rooted for some awful teams, we can root for this decent team.” But if guys are fed up, I also think that that’s fair enough. They thought the Knicks were getting past the Isiah-esque decisions and then the Knicks are right back to making Isiah-level decisions. I get that that could drive people away.

  203. SeeWhyDee77

    I will say this..if the deal doesn’t hurt the cap..then obviously u match in this situation. MSG made 600 mil since Linsanity started. Luxury tax is nothing compared to that. Worst case scenario we bank off of maybe a season..season and a half and then trade him if he isn’t what we expected on the court. This 1 is a bad business decision if we let him leave. Basketball wise we’ll hafta wait and see

  204. Brian Cronin

    when the Rockets play the Knicks next year who will you root for? Will you hope NY loses just to stick it to Dolan?

    Knicks to win, Lin to have a good game. Same thing I feel when they play Golden State with Lee and Denver with Gallo and Chandler. Same thing with Toronto and Fields.

  205. thenamestsam

    Brian Cronin: In general, I agree. I’m never giving up on this team, no matter what awful decisions they make. And I agree that it is fair to say, “We rooted for some awful teams, we can root for this decent team.” But if guys are fed up, I also think that that’s fair enough. They thought the Knicks were getting past the Isiah-esque decisions and then the Knicks are right back to making Isiah-level decisions. I get that that could drive people away.

    I’m not giving up either, but I think it’s really harsh to call someone a “fraud fan” if they do decide to give up. This team can really wear you down, and if you stop having fun with it you really should stop being a fan. If a part of your life that is purely for your own enjoyment stops being enjoyable that doesn’t make you a fraud. In fact, at this point with the Knicks it probably just makes you more rational than all of us who will keep on trucking. I’m sad for anyone who has had the enjoyment of being a Knicks fan crushed by this awful organization, and I hope they find something to do with their spare time that makes them happy, whether that’s the Nets or the Lakers or crocheting. The Knicks still give me joy even if it is in a perverse, twisted way so I’ll still be here.

    But calling someone a fraud because they no longer find the joy in being a fan of an organization that has come to stand for incompetence in the eyes of the basketball world is unduly harsh.

  206. SeeWhyDee77

    Brian Cronin: That is awesome. That is hilarious. “The two teams that did the best against him, they scouted him and not the other teams he did well against, including the teams that he played well against multiple times. They had no idea what was coming.” Come on, that’s just silly.

    Maybe I shoulda said the teams that actually focused on him. All teams scout..that was silly of me.

  207. Brian Cronin

    I’m not giving up either, but I think it’s really harsh to call someone a “fraud fan” if they do decide to give up. This team can really wear you down, and if you stop having fun with it you really should stop being a fan. If a part of your life that is purely for your own enjoyment stops being enjoyable that doesn’t make you a fraud. In fact, at this point with the Knicks it probably just makes you more rational than all of us who will keep on trucking. I’m sad for anyone who has had the enjoyment of being a Knicks fan crushed by this awful organization, and I hope they find something to do with their spare time that makes them happy, whether that’s the Nets or the Lakers or crocheting. The Knicks still give me joy even if it is in a perverse, twisted way so I’ll still be here.

    But calling someone a fraud because they no longer find the joy in being a fan of an organization that has come to stand for incompetence in the eyes of the basketball world is unduly harsh.

    Oh yeah, definitely. I don’t think any of the people leaving are “frauds.”

  208. thenamestsam

    Brian Cronin: That is awesome. That is hilarious. “The two teams that did the best against him, they scouted him and not the other teams he did well against, including the teams that he played well against multiple times. They had no idea what was coming.” Come on, that’s just silly.

    Plus you have to love playing the “seriously it was 25 games!!” card and then immediately following it up with the “These two games were really bad!” card.

  209. PrecociousNeophyte

    This decision also means there’s no chance they would have retained Lin if they pulled off that S+T for Nash, right?

    So they were willing to essentially trade Shumpert and Lin for Nash….

  210. Brian Cronin

    This decision also means there’s no chance they would have retained Lin if they pulled off that S+T for Nash, right?

    So they were willing to essentially trade Shumpert and Lin for Nash….

    It is a great question to see what they would have done if Nash had been acquired.

  211. Ben R

    I’m not jumping ship, I’m still a Knicks fan, I just won’t watch as much if at all right now. There is nothing to root for, I am a fan of the laundry but I watch for the players and I cannot imagine stomaching Iso-Melo ball with a bunch of players I don’t like.

    First the Melo trade, then firing D’Antoni and now this. It’s like Dolan wants this team to be as unlikeable as possible. It’d be one thing if we were creating a superteam that was horrible and unlikeable but really good like the Heat but were not. Were creating a slightly above average team that is horrible and unlikeable.

  212. dogrufus

    Brian Cronin: No, that they’d be worse on offense from last season. He agrees that they are worse than if they had Lin.

    Well that’s the whole point. Don’t we all agree last season’s offense was a total disaster? That’s not the bar we should be measuring against if we’re going to compete (and frankly, given our complete lack of a future we might as well try to).

    We are a mediocre-good team from now until 2018. This is not a thing to be celebrated. There is ZERO chance of us having a top 5 offense next season. There is a VERY LOW, probably ZERO chance of us having a top 10 offense. Kidd ran a shit offense last season with one of the best offensive players of all time. He can’t score or get to the basket at all, and can barely shoot when left wide open. He’s older and drunker. The effort he gave last year was playing for his last contract, so he could slack off into a comfortable retirement.

    If this player makes our offense better than last season at all it’ll be only because Melo/STAT happened to have better offensive seasons than the abortions they submitted last year, which they’re pretty damn likely to do. It’ll also help Kidd/Felton that we jettisoned Fields, whose close to league-worst shooting i have no doubt will mysteriously pick up in Toronto.

    Fuck the Knicks, Fuck Dolan. From this day forward and forevermore, that is my mantra, as a Knick fan of 21 years since age 8.

    Unless it’s somehow reversed of course, but it won’t be. Dolan doing something smart is as impossible as rain falling up.

  213. SeeWhyDee77

    I was tryina make the point that he is still very unproven. So we don’t know what he’ll become. What if those 25 wasn’t the real Lin? Don’t get me wrong..i’m all for matching because it does not hurt the franchise. But I can understand some of the reasons not to..and 25 games is one of them. Like..when u draft a 1st round PG..u don’t know what he’s gonna be on the court..but u also won’t be paying him 25 mil guaranteed either.

  214. arthurprescott2

    SeeWhyDee77: Maybe I shoulda said the teams that actually focused on him. All teams scout..that was silly of me.

    When D-Will chooses to care (not often last year) doesn’t he break everyone down (other than CP3)? Not that big of an indictment of Lin’s game.

  215. ceh

    BigBlueAL: In fairness his point was Lin will be facing those type of PG’s on a nightly basis playing in the West.Felton/Kidd have much easier competition at the PG position playing in the East.

    Sure, because the East has overall weaker PG play, we don’t need an advantage at that position. And I forgot that the NBA did away with interconference games next season, and that in the miracle that the Knicks get that far, the Western Conference Champ next year will have a terrible PG.

    How is it that someone can argue a Lin/Kidd tandem is worse than a Felton/Kidd tandem because Lin is an unproven quantity, when Felton is a proven (at best average) quantity, unless you truly believe that Lin will be a below-average PG over the next 2 or 3 years?

  216. nicos

    From the grasping at straws dept- go to hoopdata and compare Felton’s passing stats during his run with the Knicks and Lin’s. Felton was a better playmaker pretty much across the board- better Assist Rate, Assist to Turnover, etc… If he just wouldn’t shoot so much, the difference between them wouldn’t be catastrophic. Of course, if you’re re-signing Lin you’re hoping he’ll improve and Felton’s tenure with the Knicks certainly looks like his ceiling…

  217. jon abbey

    hmm, I’m definitely not as upset about this as most of the rest of you, but maybe that’s partly because I’ve been saying for years that this team will never win under Dolan, as Caleb cited upthread.

    but also I’m just not that sold on Lin as an impact player on a good team over the long haul. he’ll put up great numbers with that cast of scrubs in Houston, at least until he gets hurt again, but I don’t think that the difference between him and Kidd/Felton, on this team over the next 2 years, is that much. I also still think there’s something cooking under the table with Chris Paul.

    just my two cents, no need to yell at me about it, as I know most of you don’t agree with me.

  218. arthurprescott2

    I can’t believe this “Lin didn’t want to play for the Knicks” crap circulating in the media now. First off and most importantly, Rockets jerseys are terrible! :)

  219. iserp

    Frankly, the kind of turnovers Lin had, and the “almost turnovers” he miraculously turned into something useful, i believe that Lin will end up being below average. However, “below average” might be better that what we currently have.

    To give a positive spin to all these, if Felton comes back in shape, i think he will be great for this Knicks. He is more of pure PG, and he can be a very good defender; i wish he had a 3pt, though. Lin’s scoring wouldn’t be as necessary with Melo already on the team, and his TO’s are pretty dangerous against the best transition teams in the NBA, which coincidentally, are the best teams right now. I’d rather have Melo bricking lots of shots against Miami, than scoring with good efficiency but with TO’s.

    But yep, it is tough to say good bye to a player that gave us so much hope.

  220. DRed

    er:
    Good riddance to all the fraud fans who would jump ship after this but not the isaiah years wow ….don’t let the door hit you

    Well, the thing with the Isaiah years was that we thought we knew what the problem was-Isaiah Thomas was a horrible GM. We replaced him with a good GM who, incredibly, in a short period of time was able to clear out many of the shit contracts Isaiah had accumulated. So we had money to sign legit superstars. Instead, our idiot owner panicked and we got Stat, a fading player whose best days were likely behind him. But then, okay, we got a good coach who started building a likeable young team of players who fit our system. But then our idiot owner panicked and traded all of them for an overrated ‘superstar’. By some crazy miracle we had a player who might actually be an all-star essentially fall to us out of the sky, and we’re letting him go for nothing and running out a team of overrated malcontents and some productive players who are very, very old and likely to steeply decline soon. Oh, and Tyson Chandler. So what do we have to root for?

  221. SeeWhyDee77

    arthurprescott2: When D-Will chooses to care (not often last year) doesn’t he break everyone down (other than CP3)? Not that big of an indictment of Lin’s game.

    true..but Avery Johnson is on record for saying things like “we’re gonna make sure he’s always guarding u”..which doesn’t matter this season in the east..so i’m problee nitpicking. And it worries me that a defense led by Chalmers sticking Lin can stop him. Granted Miami had that luxury because they have James, Wade and Bosh to offset any focus on Lin. But wouldn’t u agree that we’d be paying Lin to find ways to affect the game positively for us in spite of the extra defensive attention?

  222. DRed

    jon abbey:
    hmm, I’m definitely not as upset about this as most of the rest of you, but maybe that’s partly because I’ve been saying for years that this team will never win under Dolan, as Caleb cited upthread.

    but also I’m just not that sold on Lin as an impact player on a good team over the long haul. he’ll put up great numbers with that cast of scrubs in Houston, at least until he gets hurt again, but I don’t think that the difference between him and Kidd/Felton, on this team over the next 2 years, is that much. I also still think there’s something cooking under the table with Chris Paul.

    just my two cents, no need to yell at me about it, as I know most of you don’t agree with me.

    It has nothing to do with whether or not we agree with you. It’s that you don’t seem to recognize your mistakes (remember Baron ‘led the league in points per assist’ Davis). Just like our owner.

  223. er

    I feel you Brian but it’s just so unseemly to quit on a team who I think can win 50 because they lose a player at a position where we are 3 deep as opposed to 0 going into last year

    Brian Cronin: In general, I agree. I’m never giving up on this team, no matter what awful decisions they make. And I agree that it is fair to say, “We rooted for some awful teams, we can root for this decent team.” But if guys are fed up, I also think that that’s fair enough. They thought the Knicks were getting past the Isiah-esque decisions and then the Knicks are right back to making Isiah-level decisions. I get that that could drive people away.

  224. ABG

    I have absolutely no problem with anyone reassessing how much or whether they want to be a Knicks fan anymore. Following our team is supposed to bring us entertainment, connectivity to other fans through shared experience and memories, joy at times and bittersweet despair at others due to the nature of competition.

    Unfortunately, the way this franchise is run, we get far too little of everything other than connectivity to each other–and even that is ruined by the false memories this organization creates. Our entertainment is mitigated by embarrassing and sordid tales; our joy is limited by incompetent management and our despair has nothing to do with competition and everything to do with the limitations placed on us by a childlike megalomaniac.

    Why are we so attached to a guy who played only 25 games? Because he gave us not only the joy and entertainment, but vastly increased our connectivity to each other; and even reinvigorated our sense of despair at being bested not by our own internal failings, but through true competition.

    So if someone wants to walk away now, realizing that any of the core emotions we have a right to as fans will be trampled by the over-fortunate and under-developed son of a billionaire, I can hardly blame him.

    I just wish I could join him.

  225. johnlocke

    UPDATE FROM HOWARD BECK: there is no update..

    “Brief Lin update: Since posting story, I’ve been assured again that this decision is not going to be reversed” — Howard Beck

  226. jon abbey

    DRed: It has nothing to do with whether or not we agree with you.It’s that you don’t seem to recognize your mistakes (remember Baron ‘led the league in points per assist’ Davis).Just like our owner.

    wow. first of all, running the Knicks isn’t my job. if it was, you’d almost certainly be a lot happier than you are right now. secondly, it’s not like NY passed on someone else to get Baron. it was a good gamble, he just never got healthy, but it could have paid off big.

    but yeah, I make tons of mistakes as a semi-casual hoops observer. hell, I thought Tim Duncan was going to be a bust in the NBA, doesn’t get much dumber than that (in retrospect).

  227. DRed

    jon abbey: wow. first of all, running the Knicks isn’t my job. if it was, you’d almost certainly be a lot happier than you are right now. secondly, it’s not like NY passed on someone else to get Baron. it was a good gamble, he just never got healthy, but it could have paid off big.

    but yeah, I make tons of mistakes as a semi-casual hoops observer. hell, I thought Tim Duncan was going to be a bust in the NBA, doesn’t get much dumber than that (in retrospect).

    I’m just saying, nothing personal.

  228. arthurprescott2

    SeeWhyDee77: true..but Avery Johnson is on record for saying things like “we’re gonna make sure he’s always guarding u”..which doesn’t matter this season in the east..so i’m problee nitpicking. And it worries me that a defense led by Chalmers sticking Lin can stop him. Granted Miami had that luxury because they have James, Wade and Bosh to offset any focus on Lin. But wouldn’t u agree that we’d be paying Lin to find ways to affect the game positively for us in spite of the extra defensive attention?

    Totally true. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a gamble. As we’ve been repeating over and over in this thread and threads before, Lin had upside. Low-risk, high-reward gamble (though whether you agree with this I’m not sure). But if your point is – he doesn’t pass my eye test. I’m cool with your position. He was humiliated in a few games last year.

    That said, age 23-24 is right around when players (especially good players) improve the most. The historical analysis of the 25 games point to Lin not being a fluke. Moreover, the advanced stats analysis of those 25 games puts Lin fairly high in terms of skill (we’re not talking CP3, but more like Andre Miller).

    It all boils down to whether you stay stagnant as a team or move forward dynamically. I guess I was sorta hoodwinked by the excitement last year and expected some kind of positive direction out of Dolan. Well that was stupid.

  229. thenamestsam

    er:
    I feel you Brian but it’s just so unseemly to quit on a team who I think can win 50 because they lose a player at a position where we are 3 deep as opposed to 0 going into last year

    We’re only 3 deep as opposed to 0 deep under some dubious assumptions. Assumption 1 is that Prigioni is a better NBA PG than Bibby or Shump or Douglas. I can’t see any evidence for this. This is a guy who was backing up Sergio Rodriguez in the Euroleague for a time. Then you’re assuming Kidd is still a PG. I think a lot of people are going to be very surprised when they see the Kidd we’re getting. He’s more of a 2 than a 1 and honestly his game is a lot like Bibbys. Last year he was clearly a very rich mans Bibby. But at 38 you’re approaching the edge of a cliff. Will this years Kidd be better than last years Bibby? I don’t think it’s a foregone conclusion.

    And then we have Felton. Sweet, fat Felton. Even fat I still think he’s an indisputable upgrade on our pupu platter from the start of last year. But I don’t think he’s much better than fat Baron Davis in the fat PG category. Honestly I think there’s a decent chance our PG rotation ends up reminding us a lot of this years. Only without Lin to ride to the rescue.

  230. arthurprescott2

    The good thing coming out of this is that the Knicks now come out next season with a chip on their shoulder (namely Felton and JR). They are going to be burning to prove that they are better with Lin. So let’s hope that works out.

  231. micdan

    I have been a Knicks since 99 when I started watching basketball. I enjoyed our run from 99 to 2002 (the last time that we were really relevant). I am really disappointed on them for a lot of reasons.
    1. They always makes the mistakes to overpay players just for names and not considering if they have something left on their tank or their age. Can someone explain me how taking kidd, thomas, and camby helps us to archive a championship??? The first reason that we chose Kidd was to be a mentor to Lin, but now Lin is 90% gone so why do we have him with that ridiculous contract for 3 years?? He would need help to even get up of the bench when his contract will be over. I don’t know how he help us. He barely can guard anyone and the only thing that he brings is leadership and 3 point shot which could have been acquire for much less. Camby I know that he is going to come of the bench, but seriously 13 mill for 3 year?? for a guy of 38 year?? and they are crying for 15 mill for a 23 years pg??? and for the worst part they gave this year second round pick the greek guy and another second round pick for a 38 years old center. Thomas I don’t even know why he is here he should already retire.
    2.I don’t blame too much the organization for not matching Lin contract because of the money. The money is theirs and they can do whatever they want, but this wouldn’t have happened if they had offer a contract to Lin at the first place instead of waiting that others team dictate his value. Also they were so open mouthed with telling that would match any offer that they gave the houston rocket chance to fix the offer sheet.

  232. DRed

    arthurprescott2:
    The good thing coming out of this is that the Knicks now come out next season with a chip on their shoulder (namely Felton and JR). They are going to be burning to prove that they are better with Lin. So let’s hope that works out.

    the bad thing is that they’re not good basketball players. (to be fair, I think they can both be about average in the best case scenario) And JR Smith, at least, seems to be an asshole.

  233. SeeWhyDee77

    arthurprescott2: Totally true. I’m not saying it wouldn’t be a gamble. As we’ve been repeating over and over in this thread and threads before, Lin had upside. Low-risk, high-reward gamble (though whether you agree with this I’m not sure). But if your point is – he doesn’t pass my eye test. I’m cool with your position. He was humiliated in a few games last year.

    That said, age 23-24 is right around when players (especially good players) improve the most. The historical analysis of the 25 games point to Lin not being a fluke. Moreover, the advanced stats analysis of those 25 games puts Lin fairly high in terms of skill (we’re not talking CP3, but more like Andre Miller).

    It all boils down to whether you stay stagnant as a team or move forward dynamically. I guess I was sorta hoodwinked by the excitement last year and expected some kind of positive direction out of Dolan. Well that was stupid.

    LOL..that makes all of us stupid. We were all swept away last season. But I can dig it. Personally, I don’t think Lin is a fluke. I don’t think he’s elite either but I think it’s stupid not to match. One point that just hit me is this Lin issue woulda been a whole lot easier to analyze and talk about if we had a full season. But..I think it was Stephen A who brought this up..Lin chose to protect his investment than go battle with his team in the playoffs. Come playoffs no one is 100%..and if ur cleared to play then 85% doesn’t matter. He was gonna get paid a helluva lot more than he was makin regardless. But he took a gamble and lucky for him it paid off. Maybe that 85% went into the decision making process of Knicks brass. Maybe there is some animosity on the team now..especially after he did that and got this rich new deal.

  234. SangaD

    this team is better off without Lin, with the roster full of healthy guys Felton fits better, simple as that.

  235. arthurprescott2

    DRed: the bad thing is that they’re not good basketball players. (to be fair, I think they can both be about average in the best case scenario)And JR Smith, at least, seems to be an asshole.

    Oh, no doubt. I can’t dispute any of that. Just trying to find the silver lining in this mess. :) At least its more motivation for Felton to come to training camp in shape.

  236. SeeWhyDee77

    SangaD:
    this team is better off without Lin, with the roster full of healthy guys Felton fits better, simple as that.

    Not sure if Felton is overall a better fit. Defensively he certainly is. And he’s played long enough to have a voice out there but..offensively Lin fits better with what Woodson is likely to do on offense.
    http://espn.go.com/blog/new-york/knicks/post/_/id/22098/lin-has-the-edge-over-felton-at-pg
    But even still I can’t be sour at havin Felton..he’s no scrub. He had a horrible season last year tho. He certainly won’t repeat his D’Antoni numbers this season..but he can improve his FG% an shot selection with Melo and Stat out there.

  237. garfangle

    I think it came down to a mismatch of playcalling. Lin thrives when he has the ball and making the decisions, while Woodson wants his veterans to get the ball most often, namely Melo and Stat.

    I feel bad for Novak b/c he does fit into the system going forward w/o a dynamic pg like Lin to get him the ball.

    SangaD:
    this team is better off without Lin, with the roster full of healthy guys Felton fits better, simple as that.

  238. SeeWhyDee77

    arthurprescott2: Oh, no doubt. I can’t dispute any of that. Just trying to find the silver lining in this mess. :) At least its more motivation for Felton to come to training camp in shape.

    Oh boy..I would be extremely happy if Felton reported at 195.

  239. garfangle

    does NOT

    garfangle:
    I think it came down to a mismatch of playcalling.Lin thrives when he has the ball and making the decisions, while Woodson wants his veterans to get the ball most often, namely Melo and Stat.

    I feel bad for Novak b/c he does fit into the system going forward w/o a dynamic pg like Lin to get him the ball.

  240. arthurprescott2

    SeeWhyDee77: LOL..that makes all of us stupid. We were all swept away last season. But I can dig it. Personally, I don’t think Lin is a fluke. I don’t think he’s elite either but I think it’s stupid not to match. One point that just hit me is this Lin issue woulda been a whole lot easier to analyze and talk about if we had a full season. But..I think it was Stephen A who brought this up..Lin chose to protect his investment than go battle with his team in the playoffs. Come playoffs no one is 100%..and if ur cleared to play then 85% doesn’t matter. He was gonna get paid a helluva lot more than he was makin regardless. But he took a gamble and lucky for him it paid off. Maybe that 85% went into the decision making process of Knicks brass. Maybe there is some animosity on the team now..especially after he did that and got this rich new deal.

    Yea, all of MSG’s mouthpieces are making those points. So it very well could have factored into it, especially since Dolan’s known for being petty/vindictive. And JR’s tweets yesterday and today clearly point to some animosity, not great for team chemistry. I’m even open to the argument that Felton is a better fit. For Lin to be very effective last year, he did need to go to the rim a lot, more than might be best to exploit Melo’s talents. But again, Lin is still so young and everything indicates he would have tried to adjust and learn.

  241. micdan

    I hate the Knick when they overpays or over trade( carmelo anthony trade) for others teams free agents or player but cannot pay their own free agents accordingly. I don’t know if Lin would deserve a contract of that magnitude but at least he would have deserve an offer from them and evade this fiasco. Maybe they would have him back at a reasonable price but they preferred letting him test free agency.
    3. So the knicks didn’t pay lin because of the tax but overpaid for, anthony, amare, chandler, camby, and kidd ???? The way that this team is constructed is to be mediocre at best. I believed that with Lin at least we could have a chance for a second round or even eastern conference final if things works out good, but know we have an overweight and overrated pg in Felton (who people believe that he can still play because he play well here, but that was with DÁnthony which let him do whatever he wanted) old pg in Kidd who cannot guard any pg or any player in this league right now/ Prigioni who I think he can help us if he adapt well to the nba game style, but still I worry about his age which is 34. We have “superstar” in anthony which is a good player but not great. He is not the type of player that will carry the team to a finals or even a championship. Amare he is already washout after the second year of his ridiculous 5/100 mill contract. Chandler I really like him. The bench we are good but OOLLLLDD!! we should change the name of the team to the NY Museum with all the relic that we have.
    The way that this team is headed is for another decade of mediocre basketball.
    So much for Dolan been a Billonaire and matching any offer he got outplayed by houston and will be mocked by the nets owner and their fans.

  242. PrecociousNeophyte

    I can’t imagine Jason Kidd thought he was signing up to be Raymond Felton’s backup.

  243. JC Knickfan

    DRed: the bad thing is that they’re not good basketball players. (to be fair, I think they can both be about average in the best case scenario)And JR Smith, at least, seems to be an asshole.

    JR kill a person on DWI and spent a total 30 day in jail. Enough said what kind person he is.

  244. Brian Cronin

    I can’t imagine Jason Kidd thought he was signing up to be Raymond Felton’s backup.

    No, no, no…you got it all wrong. He’s here to be Raymond Felton’s mentor. ;)

  245. Robtachi

    Regardless of how you feel about him (I myself am ambivalent), there is one and only one reality now for Carmelo Anthony.

    He has to put this entire franchise on his back and accomplish something really fucking significant, or be deemed a total failure, and there is really no way around it. I truly hope he realizes that. Hell hath no fury like a New York fan/media-base scorned.

  246. DRed

    Felton, unfair (although he should be booed if he’s still really fat when the season starts). Melo, absolutely deserved.

  247. yellowboy90

    How different would that be than normal

    Brian Cronin:
    Yeah, fair or not (and I would argue “unfair”), if the Knicks struggle at all, Melo and Felton are going to be abused by the fans.

  248. PrecociousNeophyte

    This really isn’t just about Jeremy Lin. I don’t think any one player could make me want to/not want to be a Knicks fan. It’s just the whole way they handled this situation seriously makes me reflect on what exactly I’m rooting for and investing my time/money in. And of course this is not the first time this organization has failed to cover itself in glory. We are after all still recovering from the Isiah Thomas Era.

    They have already started and likely will continue having their media goons disparage a hard working, intelligent, and extremely likeable young kid that saved their season and gave Knicks fans 2 weeks of unprecedented joy. All to cover for themselves and soothe the ego of their corrupt totalitarian owner.

    I love the Knicks, but it feels dirty to be a fan of this team. Rooting for this team over the next few years is going to be very bittersweet.

  249. max fisher-cohen

    My guess is it’s going to be a Kidd/Felton backcourt. Both can guard twos. If/when Shumpert gets to 90-100%, he may jump into the SL but more likely he’ll be a 30 MPG guy backing up the 1, 2 and 3 with JR.

    Kidd: 20 MPG
    Felton: 30 MPG
    Melo: 24 MPG (at SF, 12 more at PF)

    Shumpert: 24 MPG
    JR Smith: 24 MPG
    Novak: 11 MPG

    Front court would ideally be

    Chandler: 28 MPG
    Camby: 15 MPG
    Stoudemire 32 MPG
    Melo: 12 MPG
    Novak: 5 MPG

    I mean, basically what we’re looking at is last year’s post Lin injury team with some minor upgrades if you say these things:

    Camby is a slight upgrade on Jeffries
    Kidd is a slight upgrade on BD
    We’re slightly weaker at SG (Fields was bad but he was still a decent minute filler.)

    Whether or not Amar’e is an upgrade over having Melo at the 4 and giving extra minutes to Smith and Novak is an open question, so we’ll just ignore the Amar’e factor.

    With Melo shooting the lights out, that team went 9-5 against some tough competition, so if we assume Melo doesn’t post a sick TS% all season, that balances out with the tougher schedule and slight roster upgrades, making us, with great health, a 53 win team.

    When factoring in the big question mark that is Amar’e, in regard to his health and the team chemistry, I’d put the range at 42-55 wins assuming no catastrophic injuries. So we peak as a dark horse conference finalist and bottom out as an easy first round out.

  250. JK47

    Yes, the bad player (Felton) is a “better fit” than the good player (Lin).

    You people have Stockholm Syndrome.

  251. AlmostFanatic

    Watching PTI, and Michael Wilbon went off on the Knicks trying to say that they aren’t matching b/c Jlin is a bad teammate and didn’t push himself to play in the playoffs. He called the Knicks a “low rent organization” that clearly only cares about winning every 45 year

  252. Brian Cronin

    How different would that be than normal

    Melo has fared pretty well with the fans so far. I don’t believe he’s ever gotten specifically booed the way that New York fans can certainly do to players (like Yankee fans with A-Rod).

  253. Brian Cronin

    I’d imagine that a priority, of sorts, for the Knicks would be to get a deal with Extra E done. He would become the third-string at the 3 and the 4 behind Novak.

  254. BigBlueAL

    Brian Cronin: Melo has fared pretty well with the fans so far. I don’t believe he’s ever gotten specifically booed the way that New York fans can certainly do to players (like Yankee fans with A-Rod).

    In fairness to Melo he has had some pretty huge games down the stretch of the past 2 regular seasons which were vital in the Knicks making the playoffs. He has also had a couple of 40+ point playoff games.

    In reality except for his horrible stretch of play after hurting his wrist in Memphis and then his groin vs Utah Melo has played pretty damn good as a Knick.

  255. rohank

    How soon will the “we want Lin” chants start on opening night? I say 20 mins before tipoff.

    Book it!

  256. matte sideburns

    dogrufus: Well that’s the whole point.Don’t we all agree last season’s offense was a total disaster?That’s not the bar we should be measuring against if we’re going to compete

    This is the part that gets me. Yes, we’ve upgraded the roster from last year, but we’ve jettisoned the player who single-handedly revived our season. ruruland said it perfectly: championship upside is out the window. Without Lin, this roster as it stands today feels not so much “better” as merely “not as bad” as the one that started needed Linsanity to save it last year. Win Now is on hold for at least a year, and after that we try and find pieces to put us over the top armed with nothing more than the mini-MLE and vet’s minimum contracts.
    I’m also trying to understand how we’ve gone from thinking Toney Douglas had shown enough to be our opening day point guard, to doubting Jeremy Lin’s credentials.

  257. chrisk06811

    Some of this is nuts. we are a better team than last year.

    -Lin was great at PG, but for less than 1/2 a year. The rest of our PGs were horrible. Kidd / Ray are a BIG upgrade.
    -We went most of last yr with a coach who lost his team.
    -Amare was not himself last year. he may never be himself again, but he kinda sucked. He’s back w/ a PG he worked well with.
    -Camby is a HUGE upgrade over any backup 4/5 we had last year.

    We played very well going into the playoffs last year, with no Lin, no PG, and Melo carrying the load. The only thing we are missing is Shump for a few months. We are a better team. We will be a 3-5 seed. We would have been no better with Lin.

  258. matte sideburns

    rohank:
    How soon will the “we want Lin” chants start on opening night? I say 20 mins before tipoff.

    Book it!

    The Rockets’ first visit to MSG will be the biggest regular season game since LeBron returned to Cleveland.

  259. PrecociousNeophyte

    Classy organization we root for

    @Jonathan_Feigen: Quick Lin update from Rockets summer league: NY still has not told Lin of their intentions and likely will not. He can read it in the paper.

  260. Count de Pennies

    All I’ll say is that if I were one of the backup musicians in JD & The Straight Shot, I’d ask for a new contract which stipulates that all future live gigs be played on a stage screened off by chicken wire, a la the shitkicker bar scene in the “Blues Brothers” movie.

  261. BigBlueAL

    Berman just tweeted:

    Confirmed Rockets in dark on Knicks intentions with Lin. Still believe Knicks would’ve matched current #s had that been first agreement.

    If that really is the case (which it probably is) how stupidly petty would that be.

  262. rohank

    Count de Pennies:
    All I’ll say is that if I were one of the backup musicians in JD & The Straight Shot, I’d ask for a new contract which stipulates that all future live gigs be played on a stage screened off by chicken wire, a la the shitkicker bar scene in the “Blues Brothers” movie.

    RAWWWWWWWWWHIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIDE

    RAWHIDE!

  263. DRed

    PrecociousNeophyte:
    Classy organization we root for

    @Jonathan_Feigen: Quick Lin update from Rockets summer league: NY still has not told Lin of their intentions and likely will not. He can read it in the paper.

    This franchise is an embarrassment.

  264. chrisk06811

    DRed: This franchise is an embarrassment.

    I say bullshit. How would Feigen know that for sure? And, there is probably a process for this, with when the teams / agents get notified.

  265. Count de Pennies

    BigBlueAL:
    Berman just tweeted:

    Confirmed Rockets in dark on Knicks intentions with Lin. Still believe Knicks would’ve matched current #s had that been first agreement.

    If that really is the case (which it probably is) how stupidly petty would that be.

    The way this is all playing out, one does get the feeling of watching a king-sized temper tantrum in full throe.

  266. No More Jimmy D

    I’m a long time lurker here and I just wanted to say I don’t think I can follow this team anymore. I grew up listening to Clyde and Marv on the radio with the volume down low so my parents wouldn’t hear. I’ve been a fan through all the tough losses and disappointments over the last twenty some odd years, but I can’t deal with this. It hurts too much and I refuse to give James Dolan another penny for as long as he lives.

    I was just as big a Mets fan my whole life, but when the Wilpons, short on cash because of their greed and arrogance despite having relentlessly squeezed every penny out of their fans that they could, decided not to offer Jose Reyes a contract, I decided I couldn’t follow them anymore. Now I have to do the same thing a half year later with this team. I only have the Giants left for now. I’ll just have to pick up a new hobby or two, I guess.

  267. JK47

    No More Jimmy D:
    I’m a long time lurker here and I just wanted to say I don’t think I can follow this team anymore.I grew up listening to Clyde and Marv on the radio with the volume down low so my parents wouldn’t hear.I’ve been a fan through all the tough losses and disappointments over the last twenty some odd years, but I can’t deal with this. It hurts too much and I refuse to give James Dolan another penny for as long as he lives.

    I was just as big a Mets fan my whole life, but when the Wilpons, short on cash because of their greed and arrogance despite having relentlessly squeezed every penny out of their fans that they could,decided not to offer Jose Reyes a contract, I decided I couldn’t follow them anymore.Now I have to do the same thing a half year later with this team.I only have the Giants left for now.I’ll just have to pick up a new hobby or two, I guess.

    The Mets are finally doing things right after many years of falling into the stupid “win now” trap that the Knicks are always in. They’re playing a very likable lineup made up almost entirely of players from their farm system, they’re avoiding bad contracts, they’re going overslot in the draft (at least they did last year) and even though they’re surprisingly in contention, they’re not about to trade their best prospects to make a quixotic run at a playoff spot.

    They’re showing patience and a commitment to building something for the long term. I’m excited about the Mets.

    The Knicks, however, can go fuck right off.

  268. Nick C.

    Seems like an endless loop with this team. Anytime there is a bit of hope, joy they blow it up. Ben has pretty much expressed by thoughts on the matter. Sure they should be decent but that’s about it.

  269. No More Jimmy D

    I couldn’t tell you anything about the Mets. I stopped following them. To hell with Freddy Coupons.

    JK47: The Mets are finally doing things right after many years of falling into the stupid “win now” trap that the Knicks are always in.They’re playing a very likable lineup made up almost entirely of players from their farm system, they’re avoiding bad contracts, they’re going overslot in the draft (at least they did last year) and even though they’re surprisingly in contention, they’re not about to trade their best prospects to make a quixotic run at a playoff spot.

    They’re showing patience and a commitment to building something for the long term.I’m excited about the Mets.

    The Knicks, however, can go fuck right off.

  270. JK47

    This team had a lottery talent fall into its lap by sheer accident, saw this lottery talent take the NBA by storm, become an instant NYC icon and global phenomenon, giving the team its best feel-good story since winning the first NBA lottery almost 30 years ago, and still they managed to let this player walk away– when they had a chance to match his salary– for absolutely nothing.

    This team deserves every bit of the epic failure they are going to endure over the next several years.

  271. ABG

    Its now 9:48. This is officially classless, regardless of what you think of the bball implications.

  272. TheRant

    chrisk06811: Some of this is nuts. we are a better team than last year.

    -Lin was great at PG, but for less than 1/2 a year. The rest of our PGs were horrible. Kidd / Ray are a BIG upgrade.
    -We went most of last yr with a coach who lost his team.
    -Amare was not himself last year. he may never be himself again, but he kinda sucked. He’s back w/ a PG he worked well with.
    -Camby is a HUGE upgrade over any backup 4/5 we had last year.

    Much of what you say is accurate, Chris K, except you leave out the obvious and main point of the thread:

    However good the team might be compared to last year with Camby and Woodson and a hopefully better Amare — your team can only run as well as the point guard can run it.

    With all respect to Jason Kidd and his Hall of Fame game, I’m exasperated with the whole “bring in a 40 year-old legend” thing to raise box office. That’s classic Dolan bullsh*t and it didn’t make a difference with McDyess or Grant Hill or McGrady or any “big name” over the hill person we’ve banked on.

    Which means we have Felton on point. Which means we’ll be an okay team, but we won’t be competitive in a conference where we meet Derrick Rose and Deron Williams and Rajon Rondo on a regular basis.

    I actually see good reason for letting Lin walk — it was crazy money. But I’ve also lived through decades of James Dolan spending crazy money on absolute garbage. And then when it comes time to spend crazy money to buy a dangly new toy — isn’t that what dumb rich people are supposed to do?

  273. formido

    Did anyone notice that on the 11th Lin tweeted about hating the dream where your teeth are falling out. It’s really common and I’m pretty sure it’s about insecurity or feeling out of control of your current circumstances. It’s interesting because that’s about the time when all the machinations were being planned/executed.

  274. DRed

    Anytime you can let an exciting young player walk away for nothing so you can start a fat guy and and old drunk, you just have to do it.

  275. Brian Cronin

    I also like the idea of Dolan being okay with Isiah Thomas sexually harassing an employee, but Lin renegotiating a contract before signing it is just too much.

  276. SSS

    At this point, I almost don’t want them to match for Lin’s sake. He’s going to be so much better off out of this mess, especially given the damage done over the last week or so.

    And can you imagine if the Rockets turned around and dealt him for something sweet in January? I think that’d probably be the biggest kick in the n*ts.

  277. JK47

    The Knicks are still paper thin.

    There is one– ONE legitimate 2-guard who will be able to suit up on opening day. There is no legitimate power forward to step into the rotation when Amar’e Stoudemire goes down with his inevitable injury.

    The Knicks’ bench will be made up of a 39-year old point guard, a 40-year old power forward, a 38-year old center, a 36-year old rookie point guard, a scrub from the Euro league, Steve Novak and whatever minimum salary scrubs choose to suit up.

  278. daJudge

    Been following the Knicks since 67. I’ve watched many poor teams. Sometimes I pull hard for those teams. I guess for me it is less about statistics (which work pretty well for predictions) than my own subjective choice to like a team. That’s based on a whole lot of stuff. At this point, I really don’t like this team. If that sounds irrational, it probably is. But really, it is no more irrational than Ruru deciding to like the Knicks because he digs Melo. BTW, because it’s irrational doesn’t mean it’s wrong. Anyway, I’ll definitely watch some games, but no more obsession for awhile. This team is just such a shitty mess. Of course, Lin’s just a symptom. Once, being a professional basketball player meant being player that was so good that he could play for money. Didn’t have to work. How cool is that? Now it’s all about the money—-so obvious and clear and disappointing. Like a professional musician that sells out and turns to shit. I don’t care how many games this squad wins, but it is becoming one of my least favorite teams all time.

  279. StatsTeacher

    Just wanted to thank Knickerblogger for being a GREAT place to go after Knicks games this year. Stumbled here after the Lin NY Nets game and the quality of the “Quick Reactions” , incredible. Such great analysis and writing — inspiring. I’ll still buy League Pass and check on the Knicks occasionally just to try and wrap my head around the meth ride that the Knicks are. The Rockets have a VERY intriguing roster right now. And I gotta keep tabs on GS too. Knicks drop to third place for me, but I will still see some Knicks games.

  280. arthurprescott2

    If Kidd goes down, can we go and get AI? I think he’s in Turkey and wants to come back to the states. :)

  281. DRed

    Dolan paid 23 million dollars to Larry Brown in exchange for Larry Brown agreeing to do nothing so that he could hire Isaiah Thomas.

  282. formido

    Has there ever been anything like this situation before? I dearly wish one of those 10 part Pulitzer-winning Times series would come out tomorrow.

  283. SSS

    If they actually match Lin, do we even have it in us to be happy about it? Or has the damage been done?

  284. Brian Cronin

    If they actually match Lin, do we even have it in us to be happy about it? Or has the damage been done?

    I’d be over it in an instant if it actually happened.

  285. Brian Cronin

    Has there ever been anything like this situation before? I dearly wish one of those 10 part Pulitzer-winning Times series would come out tomorrow.

    I definitely is a unique situation.

  286. Kikuchiyo

    formido:
    Has there ever been anything like this situation before? I dearly wish one of those 10 part Pulitzer-winning Times series would come out tomorrow.

    This is very, very weird. Is Dolan with Jim Gray somewhere? I can’t remember a situation where an owner played a game like this with everyone else. Just have someone make an official announcement already.

  287. joshn728

    http://nysb.blogspot.com/2012/07/the-death-of-linsanity.html

    ” I didn’t think anyone with any inkling of intelligence could ever let happen what is about to happen. But, in less than four hours, if all of the reports that we have been hearing are true, billionaire James Dolan and the New York Knickerbockers are prepared to sit idly by as the clock ticks from 11:59 on Tuesday, July 17th to 12:00 Wednesday, July 18th without matching the Toronto Raptors offer sheet for Jeremy Lin. In about four hours, the Garden faithful will have the rug pulled right from under them on the greatest thing that has happened to them since Patrick Ewing. In less than four hours, the clock will strike the death of Linsanity.”

  288. formido

    I like how New York had Steinbrenner, who would do anything whatsoever to win, and then Dolan, who repeatedly snatches defeat from the jaws of victory. It’s symmetrical.

  289. JK47

    Fun fact:
    Ray Felton, WS/48 2011-2012
    .042

    Mike Bibby, WS/48 2011-2012
    .061

    Maybe, if Felton improves his game by 50%, he can be as good as Mike Bibby was last year!

  290. garfangle

    If a team’s bench is made up of over 30 yr old players you have no bench to speak of b/c of injury/ineffectiveness risk.

    JK47:
    The Knicks are still paper thin.

    There is one– ONE legitimate 2-guard who will be able to suit up on opening day.There is no legitimate power forward to step into the rotation when Amar’e Stoudemire goes down with his inevitable injury.

    The Knicks’ bench will be made up of a 39-year old point guard, a 40-year old power forward, a 38-year old center, a 36-year old rookie point guard, a scrub from the Euro league, Steve Novak and whatever minimum salary scrubs choose to suit up.

  291. JK47

    Jeremy Lin stinks! He turns the ball over all the time, not like Jason Kidd, who is teh awesomest because he has playoff experience.

    TOV%, 2011-2012
    Jason Kidd 24.2
    Jeremy Lin 21.4

  292. DRed

    So does Jimmy’s band ever play in NYC? I would absolutely be up for knickerblogger night out at the club.

  293. AlmostFanatic

    formido:
    Did anyone notice that on the 11th Lin tweeted about hating the dream where your teeth are falling out. It’s really common and I’m pretty sure it’s about insecurity or feeling out of control of your current circumstances. It’s interesting because that’s about the time when all the machinations were being planned/executed.

    I didn’t see that tweet, but that is crazy. I had the teeth falling out dream about a month ago, and it scared me shitless. It scared me so much that I researched it relentlessly. Its the most researched dream scenario on the internet and appearantly every person will have it atleast once in their life. Given the situation hes in, it would stand to reason that now would be a spot on time for the dreaded teeth falling out dream to rear its creepy head.

  294. Garson

    Thinking the starting role they promised felton was at the 2 guard spot…. With intentions on matching Lin…. 2 more hours

  295. Spree8nyk8

    Brian Cronin:
    I also like the idea of Dolan being okay with Isiah Thomas sexually harassing an employee, but Lin renegotiating a contract before signing it is justtoo much.

    Actually I think it’s funny that we can talk to every free agent pg on the market while ignoring our own free agent but then get pissed off when he talks to the team that actually showed that they wanted him twice. If he doesn’t wanna be here I can perfectly understand why.

  296. Kikuchiyo

    From Freud website (http://psychohawks.wordpress.com/2010/04/07/dreams-freud/):

    “One or more teeth falling out, crumbling, rotting or becoming loose.
    These dreams are often vivid, and usually leave dreamers waking up thanking the sweet heavens their teeth are okay. One main interpretation of this dream is anxiety concerning how others perceive you. Teeth are a big feature on our faces, especially when smiling, so defects with teeth reflect thoughts that others may not like you or accept you. They also play a big part sexually, with kissing, nibbling and flirting, so losing them may indicate fears of rejection or sexual inadequacy. It has been found women in the menopause dream about this much more, suggesting it is related to getting older – and therefore feeling less attractive and feminine (in women, of course). Another theory is that of powerlessness; teeth are used to bite, tear and chew which convey power (apparently…). This is linked to the dream of screaming but having no voice.”

    Sounds about right to me. K.

  297. Robtachi

    1 hour and 33 minutes until I curl up into a sobbing ball on the sofa clutching my bottle of Manischewitz.

  298. BigBlueAL

    Sorry guys, its official:

    The Knicks just confirmed they are not matching Houston’s offer sheet to Jeremy Lin.

  299. JLam

    StatsTeacher:
    Just wanted to thank Knickerblogger for being a GREAT place to go after Knicks games this year.Stumbled here after the Lin NY Nets game and the quality of the “Quick Reactions” ,incredible.Such great analysis and writing—inspiring.I’ll still buy League Pass and check on the Knicks occasionally just to try and wrap my head around the meth ride that the Knicks are.The Rockets have a VERY intriguing roster right now. And I gotta keep tabs on GS too.Knicks drop to third place for me, but I will still see some Knicks games.

    Ditto
    I tried to join the fan club fan but this idiotic management makes it impossible to cheer any longer
    The descision not to match for Lin and instead offer a contract to Felton is the last straw for me.
    I will check in here from time to time
    You die hard Knicks fans deserve better.

  300. maxwell_3g

    i will be upset because logically, this move makes no sense, but not nearly as upset as I was when we traded Gallo. lin, unlike Gallo, overplayed his hand and decided that being a knick was not that big a deal. it was his right, but im postive he will regret trying to squeeze out every dollar. he needs ny a lot more than ny needs him

  301. ABG

    FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN. FUCK YOU DOLAN.

  302. formido

    I can’t imagine what confusion of ideas led you to this conclusion. The Knicks organization is toxic.

    maxwell_3g: i will be upset because logically, this move makes no sense, but not nearly as upset as I was when we traded Gallo. lin, unlike Gallo, overplayed his hand and decided that being a knick was not that big a deal. it was his right, but im postive he will regret trying to squeeze out every dollar. he needs ny a lot more than ny needs him

  303. AlmostFanatic

    maxwell_3g:
    i will be upset because logically, this move makes no sense, but not nearly as upset as I was when we traded Gallo.lin, unlike Gallo, overplayed his hand and decided that being a knick was not that big a deal.it was his right, but im postive he will regret trying to squeeze out every dollar.he needs ny a lot more than ny needs him

    I’m confused as to how he overplayed his hand. The Knicks did not make the kid an offer. In fact the Knick’s were the ones who wanted to wait to see what kind of value the market would place on Lin. So then when they decide they don’t like the value the market set, all of a sudden he’s an ingreat for making the right move? What the hell did they want him to do, sit and hope he’d get a contract?

  304. maxwell_3g

    AlmostFanatic: I’m confused as to how he overplayed his hand. The Knicks did not make the kid an offer. In fact the Knick’s were the ones who wanted to wait to see what kind of value the market would place on Lin. So then when they decide they don’t like the value the market set, all of a sudden he’s an ingreat for making the right move? What the hell did they want him to do, sit and hope he’d get a contract?

    its not that hrd. they publically stated that they would match the rockets offer. in other words, the market had set his price. however, lin wanted to suck out every dollar he could. that is his right. however, it proved too much for the knicks to match. now he is in houston instead of madison ave. he will be on a losing team instead of a winning one. he will be the lead man with a bulls eye instead of playing a more complimentary role. hes going to crash hard, ts not because he is not good, but he is not suited to be the main man over a season. untimately, the knicks will move on but i dont think lin’s career will ever be taken seriously in houston. all over an extra 5 mill, where he could make that sooo easily in endorsements in ny. im not a dolan fan. im not a melo fan. but i’ll be happy that the knicks for once make a decision other than throwing money at things. bext thing you know we may start saving our picks, etc

  305. Caleb

    Over the next 3 years we’re paying about $30 million to Kidd, Camby and Felton… (about $24 million of that guaranteed)… there’s your Jeremy Lin money.

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