New York Knicks 106 – Cleveland Cavaliers 86 – Game Recap

“It’s like raaaaaaaiiin on a wedding day
It’s a freeeee riiiide that you just didn’t pay
It’s Dolan’s Raaaaazor with no beard to shave
It’s a 20 point win when no one cares”

Life has a funny way of sneaking up on you. Stomach ailments, also. I was thinking about this while watching this awful bore of a blowout trying to keep my breakfast into my bowels (yup, food poisoning – there you go, ptmilo – isn’t this easy to shake off, especially while working a lot and often eating when and where you get the chance). It’s 2020. It means we’re 12 years past the last legitimately good draft pick made by the Knicks, which is Danilo Gallinari. Of course Gallo didn’t really pan out in NY (even if he was starting to blossom before the Melodrama, but that’s an old story, ain’t it?), but it’s hard to argue that from the list of Knicks draftees since 2008 he’s not the mostly accomplished, and by a wide margin.

In 2008 I was a wide eyed, stupid NBA fan with no real team affiliation (I liked the SSOL Suns, mostly because I had a soft spot for the Suns since the Sir Charles days, and followed closely the Raptors because of Bargnani, go figure) and no idea about advanced stats, efficiency and the whole “don’t just look at the box score” thing. To be fair, advanced stats did exist but weren’t all that available; NBA League Pass didn’t exist so in Europe you had to rely to a few select games being shown on pay-per-view channels and NBA.com recaps; player reputations count more than actual player contributions; Bill Simmons was thought of as a good basketball mind.

Why am I telling you this? Well it’s easy: at that time, if a team I was rooting for would have won a game by twenty, any game, I would have been ecstatic and if would have made half of my day (the other half would revolve around the chance that the sexy receptionist or shop clerk du jour would accept my invitation to go drink a glass of wine together – both things didn’t happen very often). As they say, ignorance is bliss, and so is youth. Somehow you’re 24, think you have all your life in front of you and so what’s the matter in trying to correctly weigh basketball results and processes alike? Now, it’s not like being 36 is the end of the world, and neither is being 71 like my mom or 74 like Clyde – wish I could get to 74 in Clyde’s shape – but life bashes on you and at the very least it teaches you the real value of time. Well guess what: a win like this one – for fuck’s sake, a season like this one – is just a complete waste of time.

The game went like this: the two teams kept close to each other for the entire first half, which ended 50-49 for Cleveland just right after Larry Nance Jr. hit a corner three with 00.2 to play in the second quarter (now that’s a definite 2020-like sentence). Then in the third Cleveland decided to suck even more that it already was doing and the Knicks instead followed on their normal brand of suckitude, which opened the gap to 15 at the end of the quarter (79-65 – yeah, the Cavs scored just 14 points on us in that period). From there on, it was just a lazy walk towards an almost meaningless win while playing all the wrong guys – but here’s the catch: pretty much everyone is the wrong guy on this roster! But more on that in a few seconds: let’s focus about the almost that was in the previous sentence. When I say “almost” meaningless is because there’s a chance this win will come and bite us back in the ass in perfect Knicks fashion: with our win the Cavs tied us for the third-worst record in the League. Losing is terrible, but winning is even worse when done against the wrong teams.

As for the Knicks performances:

– The good news is that no Knick played more than 29:59 minutes (Reggie “the fake French pronounciation” Bullock). The bad news is that the young guys played just 83 of the 240 available minutes. Some might correctly point out that the main young minute-soaker was out to an ankle injury, and he wouldn’t be wrong, but: what’s the point in playing Bobby Portis and Taj Gibson 20 minutes each and leave Trier and Iggy, suck as they may, glued to the bench in a game that’s been long decided? Why Mitch can’t break the 30 minutes threshold even when he blocks 4 shots and fouls just once? And most important of all: how is it even possible that Mitch gets only a single shot in 27 minutes of play? This is close to a fireable offense, but we’ve always had our share of bench turmoil this season.

– Needless to say, though, I’m growing more and more disappointed in Mike Miller. I understand his likely motives and I definitely can’t condemn them, so I probably should be disappointed in Pills, but since my Skyrim Pills disappointment bar has long reached 100 I have to focus elsewhere. Miller started pretty well, but then he kinda forgot a lot of the things that worked fine in the first 12 games and reverted to a mixed Fizdale (non) offense, hoping that the vets will bring him to 20 wins while playing unwatchable offense.

– Seriously, you know how Harden gets blamed everywhere for being such a pain in the ass to watch (and that’s even on his efficient nights, not only when he goes 1-for-17 from three like yesterday)? Well, Julius Randle is a weird crossbreed between Harden general tendencies and Z-Bo physical attributes. 19 and 9 – exactly his averages – for the night, but I had to resist the urge to gouge my eyes out every time he started to dribble. I’m literally sick of Randle isos. Also, I’m still waiting for him to perfectly recreate the famous Z-Bo fumble/airball from three combo that happened almost 11 years ago.

– Now that I think about it, it could make for a quick TV format: go around Penn Station and show that lo-res clip and ask people who’s the guy who’s shooting. I think at least 30% would answer “Randle”:

– Kudos to Taj for posting another good game. 10 points, 5 boards, +20 +/-. But why are we playing him? Who needs his mentorship on this team? Mitch? Doesn’t seem like the two of them like each other that much.

– For a moment the real worst case scenario materialized last night: Mook went up to shoot (and score) from three, and Kevin Love got his feet under Mook’s, causing him to apparenly injure himself. Luckily Morris brushed it off, but that’s what might happen when you don’t trade guys at the right time. It’s like waiting for the perfect Black Friday offer only to discover that the TV you always wanted just got sold out at 100$ more than you thought you’d been able to pay (but still with a discount of 220$).

– Another TV format that might work: Marc Berman going around your neighbourhood telling everyone that in the end you never wanted to buy another TV because the one you already have does wonders keeping family issues in check.

– One thing I’m liking a lot: Frank’s drives. They’re still kinda bush league ones, but at the very least he’s really attacking the basket nowadays. Maybe by year 5 he’ll have turned into a decent NBA player. We’ll have paid him 20 million dollars by then and signed him to another multi-year extension, but who cares, he’s still so young!

– You know who’s not really that young anymore? Damyean Dotson. Good game for him (12/5/4, +12 +/-) but maybe we should try to see if someone’s interested in netting him for a second round pick? He’s already 25 and never progressed that much.

– One last thing I started noticing in the Philly game (between dry heaves on my sofa): Miller’s looking like he’s half lost the team. After many a timeout huddle, his outstretched hand wasn’t met by all players, especially Payton. Mitch didn’t look him in the eyes once everytime he got subbed out. It’s possible they’re small, irrelevant things, but I have a very keen eye on those things and… hmmm. Looks like something’s not right.

Let’s get ready to get our asses handed to us by the Bronners on Wednesday, but for those of you who can, enjoy the win!

 

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Farfa

Just an Italian basketball fan with an insane passion for all things Knicks (and yes, linguine Alfredo is not a real Italian dish).

92 thoughts to “New York Knicks 106 – Cleveland Cavaliers 86 – Game Recap”

  1. Feel better, Farfa!

    From the previous thread:

    Which means Mills and Perry are paying attention to what Knicks fans are saying on social media…..

    This was Berman being personally snippy. He’s been attacked a bunch on Twitter for defending the rotations.

  2. Miller started the same starting five as Saturday, going with the five 2019 free agents in Morris, Randle, Elfrid Payton, Reggie Bullock and Taj Gibson. Four of the five reached double figures. It was also the team’s second straight game without RJ Barrett (ankle), and the team has played better.

    Some segment of Knicks fans on social media are crying for Miller to play those guys less and the young players more. Second-year center Mitchell Robinson posted four blocks but scored just two points in 27:25 while Kevin Knox added five points but Miller praised his defense.

    I seem to recall predicting this.

    Hubert
    December 4, 2019 at 10:10 pm

    Miller seems like the kind of coach that we have been drooling for…a non-retread, non-system, non-celebrity, non-ex-player who is best suited to developing and inspiring young players to go after it.

    This is complete conjecture. You have literally no idea if that’s what he’s best suited for. You don’t know if he runs a modern offense. You don’t even know if he’ll play the kids. For all you know, he might think “this is my chance, gotta play the vets to get wins.”

    Hubert
    December 5, 2019 at 9:38 am

    There’s nothing here other than the romantic idea of hiring someone whose name is associated with the word development. His coach of the year award was for going 32-18 with Trey Burke averaging 26 pts on 20 shots. He also had Luke Kornet (started 35 games), Nigel Hayes (35 games), Isiah Hicks (36 games) and even Damyean Dotson (13 games). That’s a really good team for the G League.

    Alas, I can’t recall who I was quoting there. I’m sure he had a measured response to the valid challenge of his wishcasting.

  3. It’s getting more obvious by the game that Mitch should spend next summer trying to expand his arsenal on offense beyond lobs and putbacks or he’s going to become irrelevant on too many nights when the opposing team game plans for him or he has a tough matchup. I’d start with his handle and a little post up and mid range game, but if they want to stretch him out to the 3 point line first, so be it. He just has to do more WELL.

  4. Did you also advocate for Dwight Howard to become the failed post player he forced himself to “evolve” into?

    Of course he should practice other skills, but if he cannot hit a jumper, he should not take jumpers.

  5. @3

    I’m not against the idea of Mitch expanding his arsenal, but… I mean… nobody is really game planning for him. It’s our guards/coach who don’t go out of their way to give him the ball around the hoop. For the life of me I can’t really believe these Cavs game planned for Mitch so good that he only had a shot in 27 minutes.

  6. Yeah, the holes in Mitch’s game have been thoroughly exposed, but he seems dextrous enough to get to the next level if he pushes himself. I love Taj, but he really isn’t the right mentor for him offensively (although maybe Mitch has learned a few things from him on defense). Does Olajuwan still do his summer intensives?

    Speaking of which, what would it take to get Tony Parker in here to mentor Frank and RJ? I still think the right training could turn them into a nice backcourt option by 2023.

  7. There’s no reason to wishcast or sugarcoat: He doesn’t run a modern offense, he isn’t playing or developing the kids, and he is playing the vets to try to win games. The organization is on no different path than it was in the era of Fizball. There are some minor distinctions, but they’re all distinctions without a real difference.

    No team has really ever willingly started five middle-aged mercenaries in modern NBA history. This is a new low for this abysmal organization.

  8. So… in our mid-season doldrums before the trade deadline, I thought I’d offer up a fun exercise to the group. I have been a member of the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences (Film Editor’s branch) for over 30 years and take Oscar voting very seriously. I have watched all the contenders and am getting ready to vote (members vote in all 23 categories, after voting to nominate in the best picture and your respective branch).

    With a couple of weeks left to vote, I am opening the floor for your Best Picture pick and supporting arguments. No promises, but try to convince me! (If this goes well I might bring in other categories).

    The Nominees Are:
    (In alphabetical order)
    1917
    Ford vs Ferrari
    The Irishman
    Jo Jo Rabbit
    Joker
    Little Women
    Marriage Story
    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood
    Parasite

  9. Daily reminder that this board is way too overqualified to toil away in obscurity rooting for a dismal team

  10. The Knicks understand the developmental aspects of the season, but they also know they have to turn the team around to save their jobs (all of them) and for their cap space to have good value next year. If they don’t show significant progress, they’ll be right back in the same position next year bringing in mediocre and lousy mercenary players by overpaying them.

    No matter what many people here think they should be doing (tanking and renting cap space) they are trying to make the team better using draft picks, trades, and free agents The latter two require that they be perceived as a pretty good improving team with upside. They can’t be seen as a perennial tanker or that’s exactly what they are going to be for quite a few MORE years to come.

    The problem is not their plan.

    The problem is their execution.

    They don’t value players correctly or fit the pieces together coherently.

    That’s why Mills and Perry need the boot.

  11. Honestly though we see it with every coach we’ve had, they refuse to commit to the tank or play the young guys for way too long. Even bringing in someone else the vets would start thanks to Pills’s orders.

    We played Knox all last season, he still sucks. We barely played Frank who missed time with injury, he hot significantly better. It’s whatever

    Miller is significantly better than Fizdale, but Fizdale is horrendous. The team still has no talent and too many mismatched pieces.

  12. I have to watch most of those movies still. Wish I had.

    It’s Dolan’s Raaaaazor with no beard to shave

    I quite enjoyed that

    I saw Mitch doing a little interview of Taj somewhere on twitter. They seemed friendly. Mitch has a bit of a funny voice. He doesn’t sound like the way he plays.

    I have to emphatically agree that if Mitch got one shot last night it wasn’t because the Cavs came up with some genius plan to stop him.

  13. We’ve seen this story already: team signs some vets for ‘culture’ and to ‘mentor’- vets play too many minutes because the youth sucks, and coach plus FO are trying to save their asses. We lose out on Doncic, KAT, Fultz, Curry.

    Morris, Gibson, Randle are legitimate pieces that Miller SHOULD be playing if he wants to win. And he wants to win like his job depends on it because it does. (I also think the vets won’t run his plays like in seasons past, because vets don’t listen to interim coaches in shitty losing seasons as we’ve seen before)

    I really, really hope the minutes allocation is just for the next two weeks when the trade deadline comes up. But, again, I’ve seen this story before. We just keep signing Afflalos.

  14. As I said before, when your uber-efficient dunking center isn’t getting any shots, there’s something wrong with the coaching – or the players just are not running the plays. Seems like the latter because we’ve seen them run plays in the first few games of Miller’s tenure

  15. The mercenaries have an average pre-Knick number of teams of 3.2, with a total combined contractual commitment of six years. It’s virtually unbelievable that an NBA organization would trot out such dreck to its fanbase, and unbelievable that the incentive structure established by the organization would lead the front office to compile such a roster and the coach to trot out such a starting lineup. Never in modern NBA history have wins been this hollow and meaningless; they’re like the basketball version of anti-matter. This is dysfunction of the very highest order.

  16. This team is completely what everyone expected now that Miller is in charge: a 30-win team. Sure, a 22-win team would be better – and maybe Fiz at least gifted us that – but this draft sucks, flattened lottery odds, etc. If these guys they drafted don’t get significantly better (and they probably won’t), then the team gets set back another 5 years. Nothing we aren’t used to at this point.

  17. @13

    The problem is that this is probably McKinsey’s plan as carried by mildly incompetent people:

    – Take no risks
    – Play your lottery pick the most you can
    – Don’t play young players if they suck, but don’t mind playing sucky veterans
    – Don’t trade away first round picks
    – Try to win as much as possible until the deadline and then be like “oh well it wasn’t meant to be”
    – Rinse and repeat

  18. Well, that’s one way to short circuit the discussion. We probably do need a rally point.

    Farfa, I can’t believe you have been sick this long. Maybe get that checked out.

  19. @4

    Peak Howard had way more offensive (and defensive) skills than Mitch has now. Even guys like Kanter/Hernangomez have more offensive skills than Mitch. You can at least dump it to them down low and they can create something with a dribble or two, good footwork, and using their body to get a good shot.

    There’s a reason Mitch got so few shots last night. It’s because he’s so ridiculously limited they could focus on and take away what he can do effectively. That’s not what we want Mitch’s future to look like. It would be a criminal misunderstanding of basketball and abuse of his talent to not try to make him a more complete offensive player. IMO, he can already do more.

    His ability to catch lobs and dunk is magnificent, but he needs more or he’s going to have a lot of nights where he’s irrelevant. That’s all I am saying.

  20. i gotta believe business productivity around the world goes up at least tenfold every time this site crashes…

  21. @8…well editman – just so we have things clear: the answer is always gonna start and end with Spartacus: Blood and Sand…and there you have it…

  22. Adam Johnson: The Long Island Nets have traded Henry Ellenson (acquired via 10 game exception) to the Raptors 905 in exchange for Justin Anderson according to a league source. – via Twitter realcommonname

    What’s Masai up to here?????????

  23. @4

    Peak Howard had more offensive skills than Mitch has now. Even guys like Kanter/Hernangomez have more offensive skills than Mitch. You can at least dump it to them down low and they can create something with a dribble or two, good footwork, and using their body to get a good shot.

    There’s a reason Mitch got so few shots last night. It’s because he’s so ridiculously limited they could focus on and take away what he can do effectively. That’s not what we want Mitch’s future to look like. It would be a terrible misunderstanding of basketball and abuse of his talent to not try to make him a more complete offensive player.

    Who cares if he misses some shots at this point in time?

    Mitch’s ability to catch lobs and dunk is magnificent, but he needs more or he’s going to have a lot of nights where he’s irrelevant. That’s all I am saying.

  24. okay farfa, this has been driving me absolutely crazy for the last few days – how do you know it was an olive that did this to you…

    trying to think back to if i’ve ever had food poisoning myself…one time i think, back in my 20’s i ate some imitation crab stuff (hmmm, i wonder what organic material actually imitates a crab) that has me steering clear of anything crab like other than a crab cake or two to this day…

    think i’ve just had alcohol poisoning once too…that’s a story for another time though…

  25. We probably do need a rally point.

    i tried to check out posting and toasting…it just doesn’t do it for me…

  26. The mercenaries have an average pre-Knick number of teams of 3.2, with a total combined contractual commitment of six years. It’s virtually unbelievable that an NBA organization would trot out such dreck to its fanbase, and unbelievable that the incentive structure established by the organization would lead the front office to compile such a roster and the coach to trot out such a starting lineup. Never in modern NBA history have wins been this hollow and meaningless; they’re like the basketball version of anti-matter. This is dysfunction of the very highest order.

    hmmm, and i thought our front office was just being “innovative” this whole time with their off-season roster strategy…

  27. There’s a reason Mitch got so few shots last night. It’s because he’s so ridiculously limited they could focus on and take away what he can do effectively.

    There was a possession last night where Mitch was deep in the post being guarded by one of Cleveland’s tiny point guards and we took a perimeter jump shot. Cleveland’s team also has nobody who can protect the rim, and are the second worst team in the NBA at defending the roll man in PnR, so both my eyes and the available statistical evidence suggests they did not take away what Mitch can do effectively because they were focused on it.

  28. We’ve seen this story already: team signs some vets for ‘culture’ and to ‘mentor’- vets play too many minutes because the youth sucks, and coach plus FO are trying to save their asses. We lose out on Doncic, KAT, Fultz, Curry.

    I’ve been saying this since before the Phil debates.

    Forget about what you personally think is the correct way to rebuild.

    There are certainly times when it is correct to tank, but once you do it “once” you are the clock to start turning the team around or you are out of a job. Every GM, president, and coach knows that.

    In the last 5 years we had a #4 pick, no pick, a #8 pick, a #9 pick, and #3 pick. That’s 2 high lottery picks, two top 10 picks, and we even found a few bargains outside the lottery. These guys are on the clock. They are currently trying to evaluate which vets to keep, which to trade, and hoping to make a deal to get better NOW. They are almost out of time and they know it.

    Even Hinkie, who ran the greatest tanking experiment in history, one that benefited from a series of injuries to keep him high in the lottery (as we did by having KP out last year), got the boot partially because things were moving along too slowly .

  29. @29

    Mitch can do two things.

    1. Dunk a lob
    2. Get and OREB and put it back.

    If he has a mismatch, you can throw it down to him but he has no idea what to do with it. He has no moves, can’t hand the ball etc… IMO, they should be working on that non stop, but I see no evidence they are. The only thing I hear about in his development is that he’s working on 3s pre game. That should probably be the last thing.

    The Cavs may be bad guarding the P&R generally, but they took it away last night. Maybe if Steve Nash was our PG he would have found a few more chances, but we don’t have Nash.

  30. Miller’s starting units smell power, corruption and lies…

    Trade Deadline will show if we’ll go ‘Decadent all the way’ or ‘Fresh as the morning breeze’ mode.

  31. I mean… nobody is really game planning for him.

    I’m not sure this is true. At the beginning of the broadcast of the Philadelphia game they either showed or quoted Brett Brown saying that the 76ers had to play harder and that by harder he didn’t mean put out more physical effort. He wanted them to execute the game plan better and do all the things consistently that the team’s analysis of the Knick’s tendencies said they should do. Mitch is certainly part of the Knicks tendencies so they are therefore game planning for him. If they are doing it so are other teams.

  32. The easiest way to score in basketball is by dunking.
    And you’re trying to convince yourself that teams are not trying to take away Mitch’s dunks?
    And what are they trying To stop?
    Portis hook shots ?

  33. Edit man, amazingly I have seen more than half of the nominees. I saw (In alphabetical order)
    Ford vs Ferrari
    The Irishman
    Jo Jo Rabbit
    Marriage Story
    Once Upon a Time in Hollywood

    I liked them all, but of the five, I actually would pick Jo Jo Rabbit. The story was inventive enough that even if you knew it would end with a change of heart, you had fun getting there. I like an interesting story, so this film suited me. Marriage Story is a great portrait of divorce and lawyers and as such was emotionally gruesome to watch at times. Overall a simple story done well. The Irishman kept my attention for its over three hour running time, which is a notable and good thing, but I wasn’t blown away by it. Ford vs. Ferrari is a somewhat formulaic but is a real crowd pleaser. My sister loved it. Of the five movies here I think it is the most Oscar typical and as such would probably win. I haven’t seen 1917, Joker, Little Women or Parasite so I can’t comment on them. I’d like to see them but who knows if I’ll have time.

  34. I don’t know how many times I gotta say this, but what the hell, I’ll do it again.

    If you’re gonna rebuild, you gotta go all in. That means no Afflalos, no Joakim Noahs, no Mega Max Melos, no Tim Hardaways, no Taj Gibsons, no Portises, no veteran mediocrities that do nothing except eat up cap space, get you pointless marginal wins and fuck up your draft position.

    Instead you should use the cap space to stash bad contracts and extract assets. Instead of the mediocre vets, use the roster spots on Dinwiddie/Oubre types, young guys with talent who have not yet realized it. Every piece you acquire should be a piece with upside and potential.

    If you’re not doing it that way, you’re doing a half-assed rebuild that will probably fail. You’ll be bad enough to be unwatchable, but you won’t have enough young pieces to dream on.

    In other words, you’ll have the last two decades of Knick basketball.

  35. When it’s all said and done, nobody will have won the Porzingis trade. That guy B L O W S.

  36. When it’s all said and done, nobody will have won the Porzingis trade. That guy B L O W S.

    Yeah but we don’t have $158 million on the books for the next 5 years

  37. I have a feeling losing Powell is going to mean a lot more for the Mavs than losing KP did for Luka. And sucks for him – feel for the guy.

  38. 3 of 14 now, in a 5 point game… but I guess he magically adds 20 points per game on non box score things so if the Mavs lose its Luka’s fault.

  39. Harrell is such a boss. Have loved him all the way but I can’t believe the year he is having.

    Boban is in that bucket too (me loving him) although I am far from his biggest stan. Making an impact tonight.

  40. it was just a lazy walk towards an almost meaningless win while playing all the wrong guys – but here’s the catch: pretty much everyone is the wrong guy on this roster!

    This. There’s four ‘young guys’ on the roster worth giving a shit about (which isn’t the same as them being worth a shit). One was injured. Frank got 20 minutes and probably should have had less since he’s apparently getting kicked in the fork like every 5th game and refuses to just wear a damn cup. Knox got 15 which is fine, Mitch got 27 which is an improvement but they’re really dropping the ball there. Barrett gets so many minutes when he’s healthy he’s getting free upgrades when he time travels. I guess we should care that Randle gets minutes but he does so what. Iggy should live in Westchester until he stops being useless and I legit don’t care about any of these other players at all. I don’t care which vets we play or for how long. I don’t care if they occasionally contribute a win since the odds are all jacked up and the Knicks will continue to suck ass even with an occasional win (Farfa, you should consider looking into getting the team to vacuum out your bowels so as to overcome your ongoing intestinal distress). I don’t care if Miller runs a ‘modern offense’ or not. As long as he’s got the team caring about defense and making the correct rotations ect the kids are, presumably, honing useful basketball skills. I’ll start giving a shit when Barrett decides he wants to elbow iso every third possession but until then fuck it. This roster is ridiculous. I’d rather be arguing about Mudiay. I’d rather be discussing this year’s best films but I haven’t seen any so. I saw a new opera Friday night. That was cool. Two full taiko sets and a hand-pump harmonium. A fucking harmonium! Here’s an unrelated song.

  41. We probably do need a rally point.

    I quite like Knicks Film School as my KB alternative, although you can’t comment on blog posts, so you would need everyone to jump on Twitter and I don’t really recommend that tbh. Jonathan Macri writes some nice pieces for the site though.

  42. I keep hearing that these veterans add meaningless wins that fuck up our draft position. Can we be a little bit more honest with these statements.

    We won 17 games the year we drafted Porzingis. That last game we won was won by Hardaway, who was on a rookie contract. Phil got rid of Shump, JR, Chandler and Stat that season before the trade deadline and a Melo was shut down by the all star break. Yet we dropped in the lottery to 4tj bc of the ping pong balls.

    Last year we had the worst record in the league and picked the worst spot we were able to pick bc of the ping pong balls.

    Pretty much every year we’ve had a lottery pick we’ve pick worst than our most likely statistical outcome bc of the ping pong balls.

    We’ve maybe played vets we shouldn’t have played but we’ve also had some REALLY bad lottery luck in pretty much every draft going back to forever ago.

  43. Hmm, definitely worth keeping in mind that Pills did have us tank to the very bottom last year and we got screwed by the balls. All the idiocy can mostly be laid at the feet of Dolan.

  44. With Dwight Powell tearing his Achilles yesterday the Knicks are a Luka ankle sprain away from the lottery……..

  45. Like, the reason why we’re doing this half-assed pretend we’re not tanking while basically tanking is they can’t deliberately tank two years in a row because Dolan*. So Randle gets hired as a long-term guy, which is reasonable. Payton is brought in so they can look like they’ve got a real PG for once but he’s a perennial back-up who mostly doesn’t translate into results. A bunch of short term shitty filler instead of renting cap space because Pills has to keep up appearances. Then Morris, who was a misstep because he really can win a few games, but was a last minute signing that only happened to get revenge on the Spurs FO.

    *and after Durant got injured the big power play didn’t make a lot of fucking sense anymore.

  46. Shit…. I forgot the Knicks get the 21/23 picks….. Watch Dallas play some 3 D chess and put Luka on a minutes restriction and KP, too……

  47. About the olive @geo:

    – it tasted bad (but Lady Farfa and I dismissed it during the meal, usually we digest rocks)
    – it was clearly the taste that got stuck in our throat
    – when we started feeling better that taste was completely gone
    – to be honest the problem wasn’t probably the olive itself but the method of preservation, there’s a high chance the real problem was the pickle

    Looks like I’m feeling better at last. Fingers crossed though!

  48. When it’s all said and done, nobody will have won the Porzingis trade. That guy B L O W S.

    We have two first round picks and they have three guys making over $60mm who went 8-29 last night with one DNP-CD. And it’s not like that’s a particularly abnormal night for those three guys.

    I don’t know, man. I think we actually won one for once.

  49. Shit…. I forgot the Knicks get the 21/23 picks

    It’s probably better for us, actually. If DeMarcus Cousins is a fair comp (he tore his achilles on Jan 26, 2018), we can reasonably expect Powell to miss most of next year and be fairly limited when he comes back.

    That’s a huge loss for Dallas, and a big gain for our unprotected 2021 pick.

  50. And anyway it’s exactly as you said, Hubert. Media pumped up KP’s image so much that he would have wound up as a max player whatever the case, so trading him and his soon-to-be max even for a bag of potatoes (which might as well be what we’ll get if we draft two Jerian Grants in 2021 and 2023) while also unloading THJ and Lee is a definite win.

  51. At this point there is no way to sugarcoat it: KP has stunk out the joint this season. I know the all-in-one stats don’t capture his ethereal, elusive awesomeness but I’m pretty sure there is no such thing as a .085 WS48, -1.6 BPM player who is worth $30M.

    I wonder how much non-boxscore stuff you’d have to be doing to offset a .467 eFG% and .503 TS% on 25.6% USG? That is a lot of possessions that bum is using up with his wayward bricks.

    He’s been bad. There’s no point arguing it anymore.

  52. Last year we had the worst record in the league and picked the worst spot we were able to pick bc of the ping pong balls.

    The 5th pick was the most likely individual outcome last year. And we still could have gotten Clarke, the league’s best rookie hands down, by trading down from #3, #4 or #5 alike.

  53. In light of Powell injury, might Mavs be interested in Mook and Reggie? TRADE

    We could add Kadeem to trade if they need a 1 guard.

  54. Mook would be of use for at least four teams (Philly, Clippers, Dallas, Portland if they still think they can get to the playoffs). I do think, however, that our bozo FO won’t trade him because they know that there’s no silver lining for this season and they need to say something positive in April. The only thing they have going for them is “Hey Jimmy, we signed Morris”.

    Anyway, I don’t think Dallas would send Brunson away. even that’s pretty much one of the few expendable assets they have.

  55. I’d take the Porzingis contract off their hands for a couple of unprotected firsts that they don’t have

  56. Swift,
    I have a feeling we end up drafting better than our position for the first time this year! Which sucks, because there’s no clear-cut Zion, Doncic, etc that this board would rally around.

  57. @63

    Can you imagine drafting James Wiseman and see him become an utter bust? That would be a Knicks masterpiece.

  58. There is no good way to explain why Porzingis is back around his rookie-year USG% but somehow setting a career worst in TS% while setting a career high in dunk rate.

    Also trying to figure out how he has 1 offensive foul drawn in 995 minutes when he averaged one every 129 minutes during his last full season.

  59. Maybe there is a talented lurker, who can pen an updated adaptation of Sartre’s No Exit where a group of highly intelligent accomplished people spends perpetuity rooting for the Knicks and posting solutions to correct this dystopian team without anything changing.

  60. We’re collectively writing our own pomo version of Ecclesiastes. “The thing that hath been, is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.”

  61. You can never take away my Marcus Morris memories. They’re right up there on my mantlepiece. They’ll be right up there next to my Arron Afflalo memories. Who can forget those couple of times Arron had a decent game and the Knicks eked out a win over the Charlotte Bobcats.

    I’ll be telling my grandkids about that ish

  62. why mess with perfection…our plight has already been well chronicled and has been encapsulated perfectly for all time in the simplest of all forms:

    The wheels on the bus go,
    Round and round,
    Round and round,
    Round and round.
    The wheels on the bus go
    Round and round,
    All through the town.

    The babies on the bus go,
    “Wah, wah, wah!
    Wah, wah, wah!
    Wah, wah, wah!”
    The babies on the bus go,
    “Wah, wah, wah!”
    All through the town.

    not to suggest that any of our devotion/infatuation with the new york knickerbockers is in any way a bit childish, but…

  63. “It’s nice watching Timmy make other fans angry.”
    Ha – Yes it is, very satisfying at a time it’s really hard to find anything close to satisfaction as a Knick fan.

    How long before Maverick Fan turns on Porzingis??

  64. note to self – watch out for olives…thanks farfa…

    one of my favorite exchanges ever captured on some celluloid…different circumstances, but talks a bit about folks getting “close” and finding out a little more about one another…

    Gus: How’s the Judge treating you?

    Roy: What’s it to you?

    Gus: Nothing.
    Except it’s a shame that son of a bitch
    is paying a player like you…
    …rock-bottom salary.

    Roy: I can live with it.

    Gus: You gotta look to the future.

    Roy: You can’t build on what you don’t got…
    …It’s nice to know you worry
    so much about a guy like me.

    Gus: Listen, I’m just bringing it up
    because I know Memo’s crazy about you…
    …I mean, I wouldn’t like to see you
    lose her to a better provider.
    Fame isn’t enough, kid.

    Roy: I’ll take my chances.

    Gus: Why should you, when we can all profit
    from these little chats?
    I mean, take tomorrow, for example.

    Roy: Tomorrow I wouldn’t bet against me.

    Gus: You’re missing the point, kid.
    I already have.
    You can’t hang on to the game forever.

    Roy: You can’t get back into it
    from jail either.

    Gus: Isn’t she something?

    Roy: Yeah, she is.

    Gus: What every guy would give
    to be in your shoes, huh?

    Roy: You’re standing awful close Gus. I can’t tell
    if it’s your toes I’m feeling or mine.

  65. Don’t despair. Dolan paid McKinsey millions of dollars to tell him not to trade 1st round picks. It’s possible Dolan more recently commissioned McKinsey at a few more million and maybe they told him: it’s good to trade 30+ yo middling vets like Morris for 1st round picks.

    But who are we kidding? I just checked and Keef has a 3m player option for next season. And guess which team has the cap space to sign both of the Morris brothers? You could almost hear Mills talking to Dolan: Jim we need mo Morris. Look how great Marcus performed this year. We rejoin Keef and Marcus and the two of them will be happy. The sum will be greater than the parts.

  66. Just read Windhorst reporting Mavs looking for vet able to score 15+/game. We got anyone?

    Which of these trades (all approved by NBA trade machine) do you favor:

    Trade #1: MAVS
    NYK….Brunson, Lee
    Mavs…Morris, Bullock, Kadeem

    Trade #2: CLIPPERS
    NYK….1st round pick, Harkless (expiring), Mann (expiring),
    Clips…Morris

    Trade #3: CLIPPERS
    NYK….Harkless, Shamet
    Clips…Morris

    Trade #4: LAKERS
    NYK……Kuzma, KCP
    Lakers…Morris

    Trade #5: 76ers
    NYK….Richardson, Scott
    76ers…Morris, Bullock

  67. The draft pool looks like it really sucks this year? The Mavs may be better next season, but maybe the draft will be deeper and we’ll have a better GM? I could see Morrey getting fired in Houston pretty easily.

  68. next year’s draft at the top looks to be pretty special and probably about 3 to 4 guys who would go #1 in this year’s draft….

    this year’s draft is about average to maybe below average…. the 2008 draft with rose #1 was not considered a great draft going in also and a lot of things broke right for a number of players and it turned out to be one of the better ones… there’s also the anthony bennett draft in 2013 and that was probably one of the worst drafts ever and i don’t think this year’s is anything close to that bad….

    you don’t need to hit on HoF type players to draft well… just pick a good player…. and good players are available in every draft….

  69. I would do the Morris/Clips trade for a first… maybe a Bucks trade for Indy’s first?

    Maybe Dallas wants Julius? They don’t have much to give back though.

    Re: the draft, maybe Killian Hayes or Obi Toppin, depending on where they land.

  70. Reading P&T’s profile on Elfrid Peyton (not bad btw)- he’s a terrible shooter, who can penetrate with very low efficiency at the rim, and very low free throw attempts, who also waves his hands on defense to look like he is defending… but with poor numbers. Sounds like Rose, right? Also, Shumpert, Baker….. Afflako, Courtney Lee, Trey Burke, Ramon Sessions…

    The more things stay the same the more things stay the same, folks.

  71. The thing about Payton, last year he recorded 5 straight triple doubles! And I know that stat is overvalued (see Westbrook, Russ) but he has to have some ability, right?

  72. The weird thing with Payton is that all his shooting percentages are way down, even compared to his weak career averages, he’s shooting a career low from 2, 3 and the line, everything else has remained pretty consistent compared to last season.

    It’s not encouraging that a 6th year player is somehow shooting worse in every category when his numbers were already bad, but there’s probably some level of regression to the mean that is probable. He might just never really improve, but at least he can pass and rebound which is not true of any of the other guards in the roster.

  73. Which of these trades (all approved by NBA trade machine) do you favor:

    Well….. Landry Shammet is a 22 yr old shooting guard who gets 27 minutes a game on maybe the best team in the league who can actually “shoot” so at least that would be “outside the box” thinking here……

  74. The weird thing with Payton is that all his shooting percentages are way down, even compared to his weak career averages, he’s shooting a career low from 2, 3 and the line, everything else has remained pretty consistent compared to last season.

    Yeah… they are way down….. way down from > 10,000 career minute numbers of 29.6% from 3 and 62.7% from the FT line….. abysmal for any NBA player.

    The man cannot shoot the bloody basketball even a bit outside of 3 feet and that causes all sorts of problems for the other 4 guys on the floor with him.

    He can drive and pass and rebound reasonably and that is why his career ceiling is a 12-18 minute back up on a decent team and likely not even a back up on a good team.

  75. i’m pretty certain he’s limited due to the earlier hamstring issues he had at the start of the season…. he also had lower leg injuries last year so it could be an accumulation of all that…. you just don’t lose core abilities at 25 unless there’s something physical going on…. i think it’s largely temporary tho or he might regain some of it next year…..

  76. He’s been terrible, no doubt about it, all along. A point guard who can’t shoot usually stinks, unless he’s otherworldly in other facets offensively- see: Giannis Antetokounmpo, MVP Rose.

    There’s really no good reason to have the guy as anything other than a placeholding backup.

    Also- isn’t it weird how so many players have career-lows on the Knicks? (Outside of crazy people like Marcus Morris and rookies like Fields and Lin) Other than being a piss-poor coached team, can there be any other reason?

  77. hmmmm, we’re all together a piss-poor organization maybe…

    not to be too repetitive but:
    “We review…
    all the fears and anxiety
    …which are so
    inherently symptomatic…
    …of a losing team.
    The mind is a strange thing, men.
    We must begin by asking it…
    …”What is losing?”

    Losing is a disease…
    …as contagious as polio.
    Losing is a disease…
    …as contagious as syphilis.
    Losing is a disease…
    …as contagious as bubonic plague…
    … attacking one…
    … but infecting all.
    Ah, but curable.

    Now, I want you to imagine…
    …you are on a ship at sea…
    …on a vast…
    …calm ocean…
    …gently rocking.
    Gently rocking.
    Gently rocking.
    Gently rocking.”

    there really is no better place to be more morose, than but here…

  78. Also- isn’t it weird how so many players have career-lows on the Knicks? (Outside of crazy people like Marcus Morris and rookies like Fields and Lin) Other than being a piss-poor coached team, can there be any other reason?

    See: Razor,Dolan’s

  79. Trade #3: CLIPPERS
    NYK….Harkless, Shamet
    Clips…Morris

    In lieu of getting a 1st for Mook (preference), I wouldn’t hate getting a young guy like Shamet. That being said I don’t think there is anyway the Clippers let him go for Mook, despite how well he has played.

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