Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Tuesday, October 15, 2019

New York Knicks 103 – Detroit Pistons 120 – Game Recap

Tell me where you’ve already heard this story: Knicks go down double digits in the first quarters, a scrappy second unit helps bringing them back into the game, during the third quarter they make a run to tie the game (or at least to make it close), then proceed to lose the game by more than 10 points without offering even a sliver of resistance, and the starters all end up with highly negative plus/minus for the game while getting outrebounded and outshot. Oh, they also get killed in the pick and roll over and over. Same old story, right? Yes, it is. It is so much that we played Lance Thomas 13 minutes (Mario Hezonja 32!) and Kornet just 4 garbage time minutes.

The only thing that changed a bit from the last few games is that, at last, we reached the 100 points threshold for the first time since January, 24th. It’s more than two weeks in a League where the average team is scoring 110 points a night. If “eat what you kill” is our mantra (blech), I guess we’ve become fiery PETA supporters.

I wish I could tell you the game was fun to watch. It wouldn’t be true. There are snippets where it’s kinda fun to watch this team, sure. The fact that Kanter got bought out (and THJ got shipped out of town, and Mudiay is hurt) has left very few players on the roster you can be aggressively annoyed at, be they on the bench or be they on the floor. So, apart from the fact that you have all the right in the world to yell at your device of choice everytime Hezonja touches the ball or Lance tries a stupid foray to the rim that of course will not end in anything good, it’s hard to hate this team. Baby steps, they say. I might agree. But we still have 28 games to endure. I mean, we collectively. I wouldn’t ask anyone to watch them from start to finish out of pure basketball passion. Well, those 28 games better be at least half-full of basketball-related content. I have to say I’m not holding out hope for that, with an ever-churning roster (sign someone from the G-League and give him all Lance and Mario minutes, if you’re not playing Kornet, dammit!) and a coach who doesn’t look able to do anything apart from complaining for weird calls. I’ll stay on course for Mitch, for the new-toy-vibe of DSJ, and for everyone who’s still willing to read my half-digested takes on every Knicks game. When this season will be over, we’ll look at each other and we’ll feel the pride of having endured one of the worst slogs ever in Knicks history, head up high. And we’ll hope for something on lottery night, and then on draft night, and then on July, 1st.

But until then, let’s talk about our daily Knicks!

The good:

– If you want to know why the Frank vs. Dennis Smith Jr. (31 pts, 2 rebs, 8 ast, -18 +/-) debate ever existed, just watch DSJ play defense on the pick and roll. While not Mudiay bad, he really is bad. Andre Drummond had a monster first half (20 pts, 9 boards in the first two quarters), but apart from a couple occasions where he bullied the rail-thin Mitch, Andre feasted all night on the horrible rotations on the pick-and-roll. DSJ has real trouble staying in front of his man, and with a quite disengaged DeAndre manning the paint for now, that’s an easy recipe for opposing centers to rack up points very fast. “But hey, Farfa!”, you might say, “We’re in the good section. You sure you’re not lost?”. Yeah, I’m not lost. I was just doing some much needed lampshading on the defensive deficiencies of our guy before starting to sing his praises. Look, it’s not the 31 points. It how they came to be. A hyper-efficient night (31 points on 15 shots), coupled with 8 assists – and only one of them was of the cop-out variety, where the scorekeepers give an assist to someone just because they feel like Santa – pretty much offsets those problems. Speaking of problems: turnovers are a real problem for Dennis, but at this point I’ll take them. It’s clear that he has point guard instincts and that he cares about finding the open man, be it inside the paint or on the perimeter. Sure, he lacks the brain (or the stamina? He looked positively gassed by the fourth quarter) to always make the right play, but he’s a second year player. Contrary to what I foresaw when he came back in the KP trade, I’m kinda sorta liking what I see from him. I think this game will be an outlier in terms of efficiency, but throughout Knicks history, there have been only 53 games where a guy has scored 30+ pts on 15 shots or less, and Dennis Smith just netted one. Since 2012, there is no such game (Melo was the last one to do it). Now, granted, this says nothing about the projection for the kind of player DSJ is going to be, as I present you with some other names on that list: Toney Douglas, Nate Robinson, Eddy Curry, Quentin Richardson, Howard Eisley. But it doesn’t mean we can’t revel in a good game from our starting point guard from now till April. And he definitely has to learn to shoot better his free throws (I think it was mostly fatigue and nerves, though).

The bad:

– Kevin Knox (7 pts, 2 rebs, 2 ast, -21 +/-) has gone back to being useless/detrimental for the team. He shoots badly, he doesn’t do anything on defense, and generally speaking is a poor fit with the players who usually are on the court with him. But there comes a time when team chemistry can’t be the go to excuse. This kid is disorienting: what can he do on the court if he doesn’t hit his shots? He played 36 empty minutes, didn’t cut to the basket once, moved without the ball so that he could be found open on the perimeter just twice (and hoisted a corner three that missed so badly it ended up being corralled by a guy standing six feet from the rim – without the ball touching the rim). I’m stil all in on giving Knox all the minutes he can soak, but at the same time I hope he gets traded somewhere else by the end of the season, because I’m really afraid that’s gonna be his peak trade value. It’s good to see he can pass the ball a bit, but 2 assists to 3 turnovers still won’t do.

Fun-sized bits:

– Let’s get this out: Mitchell Robinson can’t stop being stupefying. In 15 minutes, 10 points, 6 boards (I counted seven but I might be wrong), 1 assist, 3 mind-numbing blocks. Two of those 3 blocks came in the same possession on 18+ feet jumpers. And he kept the ball in play after that. I think his defensive potential is unprecedented. Right now he can’t bang up inside with anyone, as he’s too skinny and gangly to be even a slight hindrance to beefy guys like Drummond, but that’s not a problem for the future. He’ll grow up. He seems to be a little better even on his defensive rebounding positioning. And the lobs, oh the lobs. I’ll say this: the fact that Mitch isn’t getting nation-wide praise while KP was heralded as a potential MVP in the making speaks a lot about how the big talking heads look at basketball. Which is to say, they don’t understand a lot. I hope the fact he played just 15 minutes is to keep him fresh for tomorrow or because he still is a bit sick, otherwise that’s just plain malpractice. He’s also so adrenaline-inducing that every minute he plays lasts at least three times a regular NBA minute.

– DeAndre Jordan looked a bit Kanter-esque in this one. He showed little-to-no fire, even while collecting another double-double. If this is the mentor they want for Mitch, I’m a bit afraid he might not be the right guy, character-wise.

– Damyean Dotson with a pretty meh game. 10 points, lackluster defense, only 2 boards. Still way better than seeing THJ on the court. Here’s hoping Frank will get the nod at the starting two when he’s healthy. I know, we’re going to be disappointed anyway.

– Allonzo played 30 minutes but seems to be suffering from DSJ’s presence. It’s ok anyway, it’s not like Zo was a surefire starting two guard in the league, he’s going to have ups and downs. I’m just sad he doesn’t get to the line much these days.

– What happened to Vonleh? I combed through the web but I could find no mention of an injury as to justify his 3 minutes of play (-12 +/-, he doesn’t have an answer for Blake), but I didn’t find any. We’ve not traded him for a second just to ditch him as soon he doesn’t hit his threes and gets killed inside by someone? Well done, yeah.

– Why are we giving 30+ minutes to Mario? No, really. I wasn’t even that horrified at his game tonight (very low expectations, yeah), but it makes no sense not to release him to free additional roster spots for G-League tryouts. Mario has grown up a little bit on me, but that’s not enough.

– I like Kadeem Allen. He’s the answer to the question “What if Ron Baker actually knew how to play basketball?”.

I’ll go get ready for the 4th game of the DSJ-era, a back-to-back against Toronto where there’s a high chance we’ll lose by 30. I don’t care. Give me Mitch and I’m ok.

 

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128 comments on “New York Knicks 103 – Detroit Pistons 120 – Game Recap

  1. alsep73

    Fizdale said Vonlehs been playing so poorly lately, he might benefit from sitting and watching for a bit. You could say the exact same about Knox, though.

  2. Early Bird

    Does Knox strike anyone else as remarkably unathletic for an NBA lottery pick? Occasionally he’ll do something that looks really smooth for a guy who is 6’10”, but he looks damn slow at times.

  3. Z-man

    I agree that we should try to win with the players we have, except maybe for DJ, who should be used as a placeholder that limits Mitch’s minutes.

    The only things we can say definitively about DSJ thus far is that:
    -he’s the best PG on this team
    -he has more potential and is way easier on the eyes than Mudiay
    -he’s got trade value
    -he plays with an edge
    -he’s way more exciting of a prospect than Ntilikina or Knox at this point

    Obviously he turns the ball over too much and makes mudiay-like decisions, so that has to change for him to develop into a net positive. The other thing is that he has a hitch in his FT form.

  4. Bruno Almeida

    I think he’s athletic, he just seems uncoordinated and out of control, truly a giraffe on skates. It’s been tough not to lose faith on him, he seriously has no idea how to attack inside from the proper angles and finish and he has 42 assists in 1320 minutes. I’m really not sure those things are fixable problems in a young man’s game.

  5. mase

    Knox seems like a good kid and all but I agree he looks to slow and unathletic. he is a full step slower than other guys his age. That was the kno on him in college. Low motor and no extra gear /twitch etc.

    I would love to make a pippen comp here because wasn’t the quickest guy but very long and could cover a lot of space and at times explosive … Let’s hope he adjusting to his body

  6. Z-man

    @2 the only hope for Knox is that he’s still growing and that he will become more coordinated once his body stabilizes. I’ve said a few times that he has enormous feet and he seems to get them tangled up, and doesn’t have a good base on anything but the most basic moves/shots. The 3-pt shot looks like something to build his game around and he’s not terrible in transition. But yeah, draft bust is definitely his floor.

  7. The KnickerBlogger's Apprentice

    When this season will be over, we’ll look at each other and we’ll feel the pride of having endured one of the worst slogs ever in Knicks history, head up high. And we’ll hope for something on lottery night, and then on draft night, and then on July, 1st.

    Let this pain be call’d the feast of Kristaps
    He that outlives this year, and comes safe home,
    Will stand a tip-toe when Draft Day comes
    And rouse him at the name of Kristaps!
    He that shall live this slog, and see old age,
    Will yearly on each Draft Day feast his neighbours,
    And say “To-morrow marks Saint Kristaps Day.”
    Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars,
    And say “These wounds I had in 2019”
    Old men forget; yet all shall be forgot,
    But he’ll remember, with advantages,
    What feats he did that year. Then shall our names,
    Familiar in his mouth as household words—
    Cock the Jowles, Farfa and Facehumper,
    Cronin and Z-Man, Almeida, and DRed—
    Be in their flowing cups freshly rememb’red.
    This story shall the good man teach his son;
    And Saint Kristaps Day shall ne’er go by,
    From this year to the ending of the world,
    But we in it shall be rememberèd—
    We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
    For he this year that sheds his blood with me
    Shall be my brother; be he ne’er so vile,
    This year shall gentle his condition;
    And gentlemen on laptops now a-bed
    Shall think themselves accurs’d they were not here,
    And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
    That fought with us until Saint Kristap’s Day.

  8. Brian Cronin

    @2 the only hope for Knox is that he’s still growing and that he will become more coordinated once his body stabilizes. I’ve said a few times that he has enormous feet and he seems to get them tangled up, and doesn’t have a good base on anything but the most basic moves/shots. The 3-pt shot looks like something to build his game around and he’s not terrible in transition. But yeah, draft bust is definitely his floor.

    That was the whole thing when he was drafted. If he grew the way that you would imagine (hope?), he could definitely have at the very least a very good body for the NBA. And that’s a very important thing. Important enough to draft him in the top ten now? I didn’t think so at the time, but I had to admit then (and I still believe now) that there still is the chance that he’ll grow said body and be a very good NBA player (knowing the Knicks, it won’t be for the Knicks, but still).

  9. Z-man

    @7 very nice! Although maybe you should have changed it to Ain’t Kristaps Day!

    And great recap as always, Farfa, much appreciated!

  10. Owen

    That’s actually pretty good KBA! Chaucer right? :-)

    And great work Farfa!!!

    I have got no problem with DSJ. I don’t expect him to amount to much. I especially worry he’s not a good long term bet to survive the rigors of banging in the NBA paint at his size and weight. But I will be delighted if he does come right.

    He really can dunk.

  11. The KnickerBlogger's Apprentice

    Yes. Keep up the great recaps Farfa. You have more readers than you know …

    @9 — Good point. How about S’Ain’t Kristaps Day …

    @11 — Shakespeare, Henry V

    ;-)

  12. Z-man

    Re: Kristaps, the only known commodity we received in return is DSJ, so if he develops into something between a solid starter and a star, that would soothe the pain somewhat should KP go on to become a dominant player. That in and of itself is reason to root hard for him.

    Of course, I’d rather see Dallas go down in flames in 2021 to max out the value of that unprotected pick, since by then we’ll be drafting in the bottom 5 with our own pick, right? ;-)

  13. JK47

    Knox has played pretty much like you’d think he would play: shitty. He was a bad pick. It was a bad pick when it was made and it’s a bad pick in retrospect.

    Should have drafted Mikal Bridges.

  14. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    If Dennis Smith Jr continues to play decent basketball, is Boston’s best offer for Anthony Davis really better than Smith Jr, Knox, Mitchell Robinson, a top 5 pick in this year’s draft AND Dallas’ unprotected 2021?

  15. Farfa Post author

    Thanks guys! :)

    Re: Dallas

    I watched a bit of last night’s game. I find special delight in watching THJ do the same dumb mistakes for another team. I just hope he won’t be too good a tank commander for them.

  16. Farfa Post author

    Should have drafted Mikal Bridges.

    I would have preferred SGA, but Mikal was a close second.

  17. Z-man

    @16 it might not be but I would NEVER want to make that deal or anything close to it. It would reek of the Melo trade…maybe worse, since Mitch might be a HOF-level defender and those picks might be hugely valuable.

  18. Z-man

    Mikal is old and has been nothing special, so I don’t get the love for him. Other than the unknown stupidity of PHX in making that draft day trade, of course.

  19. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Knox is very young and shows flashes, but he’s one of the worst two-way players in the NBA right now getting a lot of minutes. He IS the tank commander. I’m sure he’ll be a lot better in 4-5 years, but with each passing day Mikal Bridges looks like the better pick despite the age difference and more likely greater development from Knox.

    Dennis Smith Jr is a more athletic slightly younger version of this year’s Mudiay. He puts up empty stats. In his case, because he does it in a flashy way, people think he’s good. He’s likely to improve over time, but to me, he’s the typical player this management team likes. He’s athletic, flashy, can create his own shot, but he has a low basketball Q and at the end of the day is a bad player (at least now).

    Frank is one of the worst shooters in the NBA. But as bad as he is, he probably still has more value than both Mudiay and Smith right now. He defends his man, helps teammates, and keeps himself and the ball moving. He can still be a terrific piece next to primary scorers (if we ever get any) if he just makes a small leap in shooting. I hope he’s healthy enough to be working on his shot during this injury break. We have very few players on this team that can eventually clearly add wins, but Frank is one of them (Robinson being the other).

    I love Robinson. He needs more seasoning and I hope he can expand his offense a little over the years, but no complaints.

    Vonleh looks like he’s out of gas, but I said from day one that playing next to Jordan was going to reduce his value a little. He fit next to KP.

  20. JK47

    Mikal, on the other hand, has also played the way you’d expect: he’s a high-floor player, and he’ll be a rotation player in the NBA. Good defender, gets steals, has decent efficiency numbers, is that switchable type defender that everybody likes. Not a star, but playable.

    Knox is just a guy who shoots the ball (poorly) almost every time he touches it and does just about nothing else.

  21. Z-man

    It’s worth saying that Knox may have more trade value right now than either Bridges or SGA, if only because GMs are stupid.

  22. JK47

    He can still be a terrific piece next to primary scorers (if we ever get any) if he just makes a small leap in shooting.

    Yeah, if he just makes a “small leap” from that .400 eFG% he’ll be “terrific”

  23. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    It’s worth saying that Knox may have more trade value right now than either Bridges or SGA, if only because GMs are stupid.

    I agree with that sentiment, but feel compelled to add that speaking of stupid, our management was the one that drafted him and currently has no clue how awful he’s been so far.

    He’s so ridiculously young I haven’t given up on him becoming a very good player in a few years, but he’s soooo bad on both sides now it’s hard to imagine it happening any time soon. A real organization wouldn’t even be playing him yet other than in garbage time.

  24. Stratomatic "I'm tired of the Knicks paying lip service to DEFENSE. Get defenders & two-way players. Then play them!

    Yeah, if he just makes a “small leap” from that .400 eFG% he’ll be “terrific”

    lol

    Lots of players add a shot over time. At least his is not broken. Take a look at Tobis Harris’s development with his 3 point shot. Of course he was better inside because he’s bigger, but baby steps. :-) It’s going to take YEARS for some of these kids to get any good.

  25. Hubert

    Caught some highlights, and they got me thinking about Mitch. I would love to see a breakdown of where on the court he gets his blocks. It seems like he gets many more on the perimeter than at the rim. It’s quite possible that he would a more effective defender if we designed a system that allowed him to protect the three point instead of the rim.

    Denver has done something like this with Jokic, and it’s turned out that he’s not a terrible defender after all. He’s just a terrible rim protector.

    Mitch isn’t a bad rim protector, it just seems like he is an out-of-this-world perimeter defender. Aside from the fact that he’d foul it 3 minutes, I think one of most equipped players in the league to cover someone like Harden. Such an incredible player.

  26. JK47

    Frank is like a good (not great) defensive shortstop with an OBP of .280. The sweet glove is nice, but that .280 makes him unplayable. DSJ is like a below-average fielding shortstop, but who can put up like a .330 OBP.

    If you absolutely have to start one, you go with the guy with the .330 OBP, because you just can’t carry a .280 OBP in your starting lineup. It’s not worth the extra outs the glove gets you.

  27. Farfa Post author

    Growing older I stopped thinking that a player might somehow harness new powers from the basketball gods. Instincts define the mold of the player.

    I seriously doubt Knox will become a good player. I think his ceiling is fourth starter on a mediocre basketball team (which is not a bad outcome per se, but it’s something you have to consider in terms of trade value).

    You ship guys like him as soon as you get the chance to take something better.

  28. JK47

    Lots of players add a shot over time. At least his is not broken. Take a look at Tobis Harris’s development with his 3 point shot.

    Tobias Harris’ worst eFG% in a season came as a 19-year old rookie. It was .485.

    Frank’s right now is .400. That’s four, with two zeroes after it. He could add 50 points of eFG% and still be terrible. He also can’t dribble and is pitiful with the ball near the basket, so pretty much all of that eFG% bump is going to need to come from perimeter shooting.

    He’s bad. It’s okay. Sometimes draft picks don’t pan out.

  29. Farfa Post author

    I would love to see a breakdown of where on the court he gets his blocks.

    MSG actually showed a nice tidbit that said that 55% of Mitch’s blocks come from 4+ feet (25% from 16+ feet). Essentially Mitch blocks a long-two/three once every two games.

  30. Hubert

    It does make me a little sad, as others have noted, that we never got to see Mitch and Porzingis defend together.

    There might be an alternate timeline where Frank can shoot 3’s and him, Durant, Mitchell, and KP are defending the floor for the Knicks. I would have loved to have seen that.

  31. d-mar

    Hopefully, there are GM’s out there who are as dumb as some of the NBA reporters who think Knox is a having a great rookie season every time he scores 20+ points, but don’t bother looking at his 6-20 shooting (and not exactly filling up the box score with other contributions)

  32. Hubert

    Frank is like a good (not great) defensive shortstop with an OBP of .280. The sweet glove is nice, but that .280 makes him unplayable.

    I don’t know how I never noticed this before. Frank is Rey Ordóñez.

  33. ess-dog

    The Frank and Knox picks were brutal and will set the team back 5 years. No one liked the Knox pick at the time… at least Frank has one NBA level skill (though he’s still unplayable).

    But Knox, Jesus, that’s a gamble you take lower in the draft, not with the #8 pick. It’s why Mitch was taken in the 2nd round – where gambles are taken. To be fair, it looks to be a pretty shitty draft after the top 5 of so, but just get a solid role player instead then!

    Idk, maybe the theory is that you take the home run swing in the first round and if it doesn’t work out, you cut bait like Orlando did with Hez? All while building a cheap and competent team with 2nd rounders while you wait for your stars to come?

    I hope I eat my words and Knox grows into a top NBA forward in a few years, but I just can’t imagine a path to that.

  34. Hubert

    I think maybe we’re too hard on Knox here. It’s never wise to appeal to authority as weak as NBA GMs and media writers, but our estimation of him is so much lower than everyone else’s. And I do think decades of nothing turning out well has given us something of a reverse endowment effect bias.

    Knox is 20. Are you really telling me you can’t see him turning into Tobias Harris, a guy who’s about to make $30mm?

  35. Z-man

    Mikal has a reasonably high floor but also has a very low ceiling, unless he somehow evolves into a Draymond Green-type player, which is surely what PHX was thinking when they squandered an unprotected #1 and a much higher ceiling pick (Zhaire Smith might be a stud) to get him. The most likely ceiling is a Jerami Grant-level player. I just don’t think you use a top-10 pick on the hope of that type of player. If not Knox, then either SGA or Zhaire was the way to go…again, unless you knew that PHX would offer that deal for Mikal.

    I hope it never comes out that we were offered the same deal and refused it. That would set whatever’s left of my hair on fire…

  36. JK47

    Tobias Harris wasn’t terrible as a 19-year old rookie (albeit in limited minutes) and he was close to league average as a 20-year old. Ol’ Knoxy, on the other hand, is one of the worst players in the league, cruising along at a WS48 of -.034.

    Harris was also a clearly better player in the NCAA than Knox. So Knox is pretty far behind Harris’ curve as a player, has massive amounts of catching up to do.

  37. chriskZIPCODE

    dallas lost. I don’t like that. they are currently in a 5 way tie for 10th worse. if they get the top 5 pick, the KP deal takes an immediate nose dive.

  38. Hubert

    https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.fcgi?request=1&sum=0&player_id1_hint=Tobias+Harris&player_id1_select=Tobias+Harris&player_id1=harrito02&y1=2012&player_id2_hint=Kevin+Knox&player_id2_select=Kevin+Knox&y2=2019&player_id2=knoxke01&idx=players

    I don’t see much in their age 19 seasons that suggests Knox is far behind.

    Harris was a bad three point shooter and didn’t shoot very much at all. Sometimes that’s discretion but sometimes it’s just a shy kid not thinking he should take a shot bc he’s a rookie.

    Knox, unfortunately, is not shy, and he’s been encouraged to shoot at will bc this is a joke of a basketball season so he’s taking terrible shots.

  39. JK47

    I don’t see much in their age 19 seasons that suggests Knox is far behind.

    I see 50 points of eFG% and 2 rebounds per 36 separating them. Those aren’t small things.

  40. Z-man

    Funny how things evolve around here…I was originally the voice of abject pessimism on Frank and now I’ve evolved towards the center.

    I still believe he’s on his way to being a decent role player, and that his shooting this year is not reflective of who he really is as a shooter. I think it hit him hard that after a year of being slotted at PG (and he finished his rookie year on sort of a high note) that the PG rug has been pulled out from beneath him. As I’ve said from the start (and I’m still waiting for apologies from those who crucified me for it) was that he would NEVER be a NBA-level PG and that developmental efforts should be immediately changed to define him as what he is…an off-the-ball defensive 2-3 who can hit the corner 3. All he’s heard is BE MORE AGGRESSIVE WITH THE BALL! when he should actually be doing the exact opposite…BE MORE AGGRESSIVE WITHOUT THE BALL! He should be working on rebounding and using his body more rather than just his length. His role model should be Marcus Smart, not Jrue Holiday.

  41. vincoug

    I see 50 points of eFG% and 2 rebounds per 36 separating them. Those aren’t small things.

    Also 70 points of TS% despite the fact that Knox is a much better 3-point shooter than Tobias and 120 points of WS/48.

  42. Mike R

    Knox does nothing well. Yeh he’s young. But he has literally showed nothing to demonstrate they he will ever be a starting caliber player on a playoff team. He has a lot of growing to do and has not really done much at all this year. I think you give guys like him and frank three full seasons before you really decide if they’re part of your future or not.

    I also don’t understand why some still want to decimate this team for Anthony Davis. Trading dsj Mitch and multiple firsts including next years would leave us exactly how it did after the Melo trade maybe even worse because that number one pick could slightly turn into Zion. I wouldn’t trade Zion and Mitch for ad straight up. But either will the pelicans probably. The nba is about household names. And right now jayson Tatum and who ever the Celtics offer would be much more of household names.

  43. Z-man

    To be fair, Knox will have played more minutes this season than Harris did in his first two seasons combined. If Knox was limited to 479 minutes this year, it’s possible that he would have better stats.

  44. ClashFan

    I love all the Shakespeare references lately. Today Henry V, the other day Hamlet (though misidentified as Julius Caesar). I highly recommend the 1989 film version of Henry V, directed by and starring a young Kenneth Branagh. My favorite Shakespeare film of all time and Branagh is magnificent as the title character.

    Check this out: the Crispan’s day speech used earlier in the thread, done by Branagh (and check for a couple of glimpses of a very young Christian Bale):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y1BhnepZnoo
    Awesome stuff!

    In other Knicks news, the new Deadwood movie will debut this spring, according to HBO!
    :-)

    (BTW, there are a few spelling errors in the captions in the video by whoever uploaded it to Youtube)

  45. Z-man

    Knox does nothing well.

    I would say that he does nothing consistently well. He has shown flashes of good rebounding, shot-blocking, 3-pt shooting and making plays in transition. There are things to build a game around.

  46. Mike R

    What’s Knox’s ceiling tho? I feel like when you draft a project early in the draft like a Knox or a frank it should be because the upside and ceiling may be an all star level or superstar level player. It’s a project because it might take a while to develop but it’s worth the risk of it early in the draft because there’s tons of potential. I don’t see tons of potential with these two. I see maybe decent role players for a play off team at best. I know it’s still early with them both but it is frustrating on most nights to have to try and look for the positives in their play when a lot of times there isn’t much. I’m not ready to call either of them busts yet but they have a very long way to go. And idk why any top free agent would look at this team and see a potential to win with these guys. Unless we win the Zion lottery.

  47. thenoblefacehumper

    From reading the comments here you’d never know that DSJ has absolutely trounced Ntilikina in AST% and it doesn’t look like that’s changing anytime soon.

    If you count tossing the ball to the nearest perimeter player and running to a corner as “keeping the ball moving” then I guess I can see how you might think Frank is better at keeping the ball moving. However if you use the phrase the way it’s been used in basketball parlance for decades, meaning “puts his teammates in a better position to score,” DSJ is quite clearly superior.

    Frank is a Jan Vesley type bust–you don’t even really need to see more to confirm it. I mean sure play him because we don’t have anything better to do, but the numbers, eye test, etc. all scream “non-NBA player.”

    I’d have a slightly longer leash with Knox because he at least looks like he could someday turn the 3PT shooting into a weapon, but he’s probably headed the same way. Someone who cares about him should tell him to focus overwhelmingly on 3PT shooting.

  48. Hubert

    JK & Vin, Harris shot 42% on long 2s and 21% from three that year. His assisted shots are also way higher than Knox’, and you know that matches up with this bullshit “eat what you kill” offense we’re running. If you think his eFG%, derived from that noise, constitutes conclusive evidence that Knox is far behind him as a shooter, there’s no point in arguing.

    Knox is the youngest player in the NBA. He’s not Frank. Chill a little before we surmise that he’s a wasted draft pick and everyone in the media is wrong about him. Understanding the age curve is an important part of statistics, too. You don’t write a guy off bc of his shooting % in his age 19 season on a 10 win team where everyone has to chuck to avoid being in some stupid dungeon.

  49. thenoblefacehumper

    Frank is one of the worst shooters in the NBA. But as bad as he is, he probably still has more value than both Mudiay and Smith right now.

    So why is every single metric that exists wrong about this, at least as it relates to Smith? I mean metrics are even in agreement that DSJ adds more value on defense alone (I have some theories as to why this might be, but I digress).

  50. DRed

    If Dennis Smith Jr continues to play decent basketball, is Boston’s best offer for Anthony Davis really better than Smith Jr, Knox, Mitchell Robinson, a top 5 pick in this year’s draft AND Dallas’ unprotected 2021?

    Yes-assuming we don’t get the first pick. Boston can offer several good relatively young NBA players (say Smart and Brown), a young player people think is going to be an all star in Tatum, the Grizzlies pick-which has a decent chance of being unprotected in 2021, a bunch of their own picks and a lottery protected Clippers pick. The Knicks can offer a PG who already played his way out of Dallas, a backup center on the worst team in the NBA, a good pick in a bad draft and the Dallas 2021, when people in the league think Dallas will be good already. Now, you could argue that Robinson is more valuable than those Celtics players, but most people in the NBA won’t agree with you. Boston just has more assets that the league thinks are valuable.

  51. DRed

    Knox gets up a good number of 3 point attempts and makes them at a good clip for a forward-especially for a 19 year old. He is terrible at everything else. He is 6’10”-ish and somehow shooting sub-40% from 2pt range. He and Frank are probably 2 of the 10 worst players in the NBA, although it’s harder to say with Frank because he might be a good perimeter defender on a team loaded with shitty perimeter defenders and I don’t know how well the stats we have capture that.

  52. Z-man

    Only the delusional think that Frank is a better prospect than Dennis. There is no evidence whatsoever to support that claim. None.

    The odds of Frank having a better career than DSjr have to be worse than 50-1 at this point.

  53. ess-dog

    DSJ could have a Lowry ceiling, just has to work on his shot and turnovers. Of course, he could also top out at Nate Robinson. He definitely needs some good vets to push him though (like Durant).

  54. Jack Bauer

    Agree Knox looks a step slow and not very athletic. He doesn’t attack the basket and looks like he has no clue on offense about what he’s doing (other than jacking up the first available shot).

    The question becomes isn’t that what the coaching staff is employed for? I put a lot of blame on the lack of improvement from the young guys on Fizdale and his staff. We’re well into the season and there hasn’t been much improvement, if any, from the young guys. The losses are great for the tank, but it is pretty disappointing that the coaching staff seems unwilling or unable to teach these players anything about getting better at basketball.

  55. BigBlueAL

    I’ve been thinking about this and wonder what you guys think. I’ve read alot that if the Knicks win the lottery they’d become the favorites to trade for AD because Zion would be by far the best trade chip. My thing is would it really be worth trading basically all the young players plus Zion for AD?? The team would be AD and hopefully KD then what?? There’d be no more cap space for anyone else significant. Wouldn’t keeping Zion (plus all the young players) and signing 2 max FA’s (hopefully KD and Irving) be a better way to go then trading Zion and all the young players for AD and 1 max FA?? Or am I wrong and trading for AD they’d still have cap space for 2 max FA’s??

  56. thenoblefacehumper

    Just catching up on the recap and KBA’s beautiful sonnet. Great work all around, though the latter brought back bad memories of my English teacher certification test.

    I’ve been thinking about this and wonder what you guys think. I’ve read alot that if the Knicks win the lottery they’d become the favorites to trade for AD because Zion would be by far the best trade chip. My thing is would it really be worth trading basically all the young players plus Zion for AD?? The team would be AD and hopefully KD then what?? There’d be no more cap space for anyone else significant. Wouldn’t keeping Zion (plus all the young players) and signing 2 max FA’s (hopefully KD and Irving) be a better way to go then trading Zion and all the young players for AD and 1 max FA?? Or am I wrong and trading for AD they’d still have cap space for 2 max FA’s??

    If we won the lottery I’m not even sure I’d want to trade Zion alone (+ cap filler obviously) for AD, so I agree with you that Zion + Mitch + DSJ or something wouldn’t be smart.

    The only thing worth mentioning is that, yes, it is possible to sign two max free agents and then complete an AD trade.

  57. BigBlueAL

    Right, I figured it would depend on the timing of the trade and FA signings. Although depending on both teams cap space at the time I don’t know if they’d have problems matching salary numbers with AD’s contract.

    I’d just be pretty bummed to finally win the lottery in a year with a surefire #1 pick but then trade it immediately, granted a Big 3 of AD-KD-Irving would be pretty awesome to watch.

  58. Bruno Almeida

    The only way I would entertain the idea of trading Zion is if it guaranteed us 100% Kyrie + AD + Durant, and still left some players on the roster (Mitch specially).

    I would probably be just as excited or even more about a Zion + Durant + Kyrie core, it seems like such an amazing fit on paper and Zion would be on a much more manageable 4 year contract to get help around them. It also lets Mitch start at the 5 with them, in what would be basically my dream lineup to watch next season, while Davis would clash in terms of position a lot more with Mitch.

  59. Mike R

    if we land the number one pick I would not trade it for anything.

    Now if it ends up being 2-4. I would consider trading the pick plus others for Davis. It’s just Zion is so far and ahead of everyone else in this class you simply cannot trade him away even for a guy like AD. Probably cuz the pelicans would want more than just that. They’d want Zion Mitch and more picks at the least. Which is a non starter for me. Only way I trade this years pick for ad is if the 86% chance of not getting number one comes to fruition. And then who knows if the pelicans even go for that even with more pics/young players thrown in. I truly wonder what kind of value the league puts on guys like frank or Knox in a trade like this.

  60. ClashFan

    @61

    +1 on Branagh and looking forward to the Deadwood movie.

    Al Swearengen certainly knows how to handle a longtime Knicks fan.

    Al Swearengen IS a longtime Knick fan!
    :-)

  61. Z-man

    I would not trade Zion under any circumstances. his excess value on his rookie scale contract plus his first max deal will be off the charts.

    It almost makes the far more likely outcome of not drafting Zion more palatable, because it sounds like he’ll never play in a Knicks uniform and we will gut the team for the privilege of paying AD $50 million a year. Fuck that. PLEASE!! NOT AGAIN!! NO MELO TRADES!!!

  62. danvt

    Knox is like the son of the guy you play pick up basketball with. For a few years, when he was in elementary school, he sat and watched, now he’s in the game, makes an occasional shot, everyone wants him to do well and be a player one day. He’s cute and gangly and everyone’s happy for him when he makes a shot. He represents one of my pet peeves with the NBA. See list to follow:

    1. A year of college is nothing. 30 games plus a post season tournament. It’s like AAU. NBA 1st round is High School players. The first three years of their careers are inconclusive. Then they demand a max salary. You’re still looking for upside. Frank would be a Junior and Knox would be a Sophomore. There’s not many Kevin Garnett’s, LBJ’s, etc, and the evaluation process for players is flawed.

    2. I hate the term “upside”. I’d prefer bust. I’d prefer “don’t draft that Junior or Sophomore”. Larry Bird never was bad. No one ever said, “If that kid develops he might be Kent Benson…” he was great and then got better.

    3. The ESPN analysts actually got mad at NOP for winning. I mean, “Tank” has become familiar parlance….excepted practice…something smart teams are supposed to engage in. NBA=WWF. What does it say about GSW that they beat PHO the other night? Bupkis (Yiddish to English translation= goat shit.) Tanking devalues wins for good teams.

    4. Players that demand trades and say they won’t sign in public should be stuck on the end of the bench unless they apologize to the fans and say (even if it’s not true) that they’re wholly and totally committed to their current organization and will handle their contract status at the appropriate time. The damage to fans and fellow players of these type of public trade demands is gigantic. If we were to trade Zion for AD I’d be done with the NBA, even if it’s a win on talent. He’s a selfish asshole. Ditto Jimmy Butler (watch NYK sign him, LOL.) Handle it in house or you’re a fucking dick.

    5…Floss Cam (Just Cuz)

  63. nicos

    Re Knox’s athleticism: I think his biggest problem is his lack of explosiveness- he can get a step on guys but just doesn’t explode to the rim at all. He’s also weak as all get out- even the slightest bump completely discombobulates him. On the plus side, I think his end to end speed is pretty good- he’s been good in transition all year. I also think he’s shown the ability to change speeds/direction with the ball in his hands that could pay dividends if he ever learns to actually do anything-and I mean anything- with his off hand. I think his strength issues will take care of themselves- he’s got a solid frame. I’m less sure about his ball-handling but I’m sure it’ll improve a bit. He has zero defensive awareness right now so I don’t see him ever being a plus on that end- the best you can hope for is average. He’s definitely been one of the worst players in the league but almost every game he has a play or two that makes you think there could be a really solid player somewhere in there. Doubtful he gets there (and I don’t think playing him 30 minutes a night when he’s clearly not ready is doing him any favors) but I think it’s too early and he’s way too raw to draw any definite conclusions about his future.

  64. Z-man

    If it weren’t for the moronic Russian that made those historically bad trades for Pierce and Garnett, Boston might still be a non-contender in the aftermath of the short-lived Big 3 era. It would be great if for once we patiently build a solid core of young talent on reasonable contracts before signing a max player or two. I really think we can build around Zion and Mitch. We have 7 draft shots at a good/great young player in the next 5 years.

  65. Mike R

    @70 Signing jimmy butler to the max would be a disaster. I seriously doubt philly let’s him walk tho. He’s got way to many miles on him.

  66. JK47

    I would not trade Zion under any circumstances. his excess value on his rookie scale contract plus his first max deal will be off the charts.

    Agreed. You don’t just get his rookie contract, you get his Bird rights and all of that. That’s what, like seven seasons of big surplus production.

  67. Mike R

    Best case scenario is they make and keep their pick whoever it is. And take there best shot at two top free agents – kd, kyrie, Kawhi. If you can’t land any of those guys you make team friendly signings and trades(rent cap space) and continue building through the draft.

    Worse case scenario is they panic. And there’s a million different ways they could that. (Cousins, trade everyone and picks for ad, etc)

    Unfortunately I feel like we will only be able to sign a superstar or two if we win the lottery. Stars will want to play with Zion. A core of kyrie dsj zion kd and Mitch would be the best and most competitive team we’ve had in decades. Pretty much everything has to go right for that to happen tho.

    Kawhi would probably be my number one wish in free agency but we know that’s highly unlikely.

    I’m intrigued to see what kind of contract klay Thompson is going to get. And if entertains leaving golden state. Someone would massively overpay for him for sure.

  68. vincoug

    Knox is the youngest player in the NBA. He’s not Frank. Chill a little before we surmise that he’s a wasted draft pick and everyone in the media is wrong about him. Understanding the age curve is an important part of statistics, too. You don’t write a guy off bc of his shooting % in his age 19 season on a 10 win team where everyone has to chuck to avoid being in some stupid dungeon.

    No one’s complaining just because of his shooting and no one’s writing him off yet. We are saying that the one thing he seems to be able to do on a court, scoring, he isn’t good at and he doesn’t add any other value on the court. His rebounding for a 6’10” forward is Bargnani-esque and he has absolutely no court vision or passing ability (he has the worst assist rate on the team except for Lance Thomas). He also isn’t the youngest player in the NBA, that would be Jaren Jackson Jr.

    Can some of these problems be chalked up to terrible coaching? Sure. Does it mean that Knox is a finished product and can never be good? No. It does mean that he’s one of the worst players in the NBA and has to make huge leaps just to become average.

  69. thenoblefacehumper

    It’s amazing that a player who didn’t demonstrate any plus skills in college has continued to not demonstrate any plus skills in the NBA.

    (It’s not amazing)

  70. vincoug

    It’s amazing that a player who didn’t demonstrate any plus skills in college has continued to not demonstrate any plus skills in the NBA.

    Yeah, but how does he look in 3-on-3.

  71. Jack Bauer

    “Yeah, but how does he look in 3-on-3.”

    Maybe they can add that event to the skills challenge at the all star game weekend activities. Knox would presumably be a star.

  72. BigBlueAL

    The only saving grace so far this season for Knox is that you can kinda see a potential very good 3pt shooter.

  73. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    That poem was gorgeous. Like, in a way that made me throw up in my mouth a little. Sort of like Crash by Ballard. Also about a series of car wrecks, so… apt.

    42 assists in 1320 minutes

    One assist every 31 minutes. That’s a Knick, right there.

  74. geo

    knox (and maybe frank) were both stash and develop projects from the beginning…I don’t think they saw them as becoming key “contributors” on the roster for a while (2 years maybe?)…

    sort of like what philly, and last year denver, did when selecting their first round picks…

    only they were/are simply young – pretty much the youngest guys in their draft – instead of hurt…

  75. geo

    yes, perhaps more punishment is in store – we’ll see lotto day…

    I’m a little confused though on the whole: give some back part of the speech…

    whatcha think al meant – like burning gear and cancelling our nba league pass…

  76. The KnickerBlogger's Apprentice

    @84

    Off the top of my head:

    “Give some (pain) back” ~ Tim Hardaway Jr?

  77. Grocer

    I mean metrics are even in agreement that DSJ adds more value on defense alone (I have some theories as to why this might be, but I digress).

    I think this is mostly based off of rebounds, but DSJ’s BPM suggests he’s better at defense than at offense which is head scratching. But then DBPM is just BMP minus OBPM, it doesn’t really tell you anything other than ‘got blocks/steals /rebounds.’ I’ve been watching his defense trying to see if there’s any there there but the team integration isn’t what it should be yet so who knows. Relatedly, I’m hoping Jordan’s minutes are just to try and make Smith more comfy.

  78. Grocer

    Players that demand trades and say they won’t sign in public should be stuck on the end of the bench unless they apologize to the fans and say (even if it’s not true) that they’re wholly and totally committed to their current organization and will handle their contract status at the appropriate time.

    Respectfully, trying to have some control over where you play is not something immoral. Likewise, Davis is doing the Pels a favor by being upfront and letting them know in advance. You want him to just walk in the off-season, no warning? If I’m a team/fanbase I’d greatly prefer the warning, even if it is public.

  79. thenoblefacehumper

    Respectfully, trying to have some control over where you play is not something immoral. Likewise, Davis is doing the Pels a favor by being upfront and letting them know in advance. You want him to just walk in the off-season, no warning? If I’m a team/fanbase I’d greatly prefer the warning, even if it is public.

    +a lot

  80. Grocer

    Agree Knox looks a step slow and not very athletic. He doesn’t attack the basket and looks like he has no clue on offense about what he’s doing (other than jacking up the first available shot).

    The question becomes isn’t that what the coaching staff is employed for?

    Knox was attacking the basket much more earlier in the season. I too am curious about why that changed. Not too worried though, inconsistency in a young rookie isn’t something to get worked up about. Also he’s been better than I expected. Looking forward to seeing what he does next year.

  81. The Glass Half Rebuilt

    I don’t think we should trade Zion Williamson and the farm for Anthony Davis.

    I would definitely try to Kevin Knox as soon as possible. If the draft ends up falling with us at 2 and Atlanta at like 6, I’d try to trade Knox and the #2 to Atlanta for their pick, Dallas’ pick this year (assuming Atlanta gets it), and Kevin Huerter. I don’t think he ever turns into a good basketball player, and if we land Kevin Durant we have no time to wait for him.

  82. Grocer

    KBA, very nicely done. “We happy few,” lmfao. Thankfully no one has to die for the Knicks. Can you imagine if NBA teams had ultras? You’d only be able to visit Philly in disguise.

  83. bockadoo

    @87 I think the player/his agent should let the team know in private or right after the season ends. Going public mid season put three teams and their players in ridiculous situations.

  84. d-mar

    Love the “if we get Zion” discussion. Sort of like “if I win $30 million in the lottery, should I buy a big ass yacht or an oceanfront estate?”

    It’s like that old Steve Martin joke “How to be a millionaire and never pay taxes! Ok, first, get a million dollars”

  85. ClashFan

    @84

    I’m a little confused though on the whole: give some back part of the speech…

    whatcha think al meant – like burning gear and cancelling our nba league pass…

    Heckle James Dolan at every opportunity. Sneak in to JD and Straight Shot shows (don’t pay, of course) and heckle. Join Charles Oakley’s legal defense team. Etc.

  86. vpac

    @93

    There is a 14% chance the Knicks get Zion and a .00000001% chance that you will $30M, your comment is nonsensical.

  87. danvt

    @87 I think the player/his agent should let the team know in private or right after the season ends. Going public mid season put three teams and their players in ridiculous situations.

    Thanks. Plus what about NOP fans or what’s left of them? Plus, look at AD now. A deal did not get worked out and he’s getting booed every time he touches the ball, benched in the 4th quarter, he’s alienated his teammates who he has publicly repudiated, and he has to answer question after question from reporters about the situation. All he had to do was keep his contract status between him, the club, his agent, and Lebron (lol). He tried to use the press to help him leverage his way out of town. This is my problem with him and, increasingly a real problem in the league, IMHO.

  88. The KnickerBlogger's Apprentice

    Also, not sure if the board has weighed in on the Melo piece on HuffPo — https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bhm-carmelo-anthony_us_5c59e2f1e4b00187b555a864.

    I guess “PR reps gonna rep,” and Melo seems genuine about being active, but he does choose an unfortunate metaphor (for a basketball player) that might bring a smile to our board:

    Melo: “I think for the most part when you talk about building something, you got to get brick by brick. Right? Whatever that brick is, first of all you got to lay down a foundation before you build something. Have a plan, lay the foundation. Every brick is going to build towards something. It’s a room. It’s a basement. It builds something. We need each and every brick for that.”

    I’m thinking we needed fewer bricks.

  89. Grocer

    @87 I think the player/his agent should let the team know in private or right after the season ends. Going public mid season put three teams and their players in ridiculous situations.

    Somebody is going to be put out no matter what, it’s just the nature of the CBA and player control. Doing it midseason vs end of season, fair enough. I think mid-season gives the Pelicans more options and gives everybody who wants to be involved enough of a heads up that they can position themselves for the off-season. As for roster woes, the Pels were going to have that anyway and the Lakers problems are really down to poor negotiating on their part and vindictiveness on the Pelicans’ part. That’s not on Davis or his agent.

    If he doesn’t do it publicly then he’s giving up a lot of his leverage over where he goes. I think it worked out for the Knicks, but the Mavs just took a big risk on a player who didn’t really want to go there and KP lost a bunch of leverage precisely because he didn’t go public. If he had gone public it would have played out differently, probably to the Knicks detriment but to his advantage.

  90. thenoblefacehumper

    The most befuddling thing about the Knox pick is the eye test might be the only thing that makes him look worse than the numbers, both in college and the NBA.

  91. d-mar

    @93

    There is a 14% chance the Knicks get Zion and a .00000001% chance that you will $30M, your comment is nonsensical.

    Dude, I wasn’t comparing the odds. Just pointing out the “dilemma” of what to do if we get the #1 pick.

  92. Grocer

    @99. I don’t think the player deserves any leverage.

    Why the fuck not? Why shouldn’t a player use whatever means available to try to live somewhere they want to live, work with an organization they want to work with? Beyond denying them any agency at all being immoral, a player indicating preferences saves teams from getting fleeced if he doesn’t want to be there and bounces at the first available. Your way is bad for both sides.

  93. bockadoo

    I think his decision to go public during the season affects other teams, players and fans adversely. He signed a contract. Keep it private or wait until the offseason. Just how I feel. I’m so happy NO didn’t cave to LeBron, Magic and the Lakers.

  94. MSA

    I think his decision to go public during the season affects other teams, players and fans adversely. He signed a contract. Keep it private or wait until the offseason. Just how I feel. I’m so happy NO didn’t cave to LeBron, Magic and the Lakers.

    I agree. This whole leverage thing has been overrated as hell.

  95. thenoblefacehumper

    I don’t think the player deserves any leverage.

    What’s your favorite flavor of boot?

  96. Grocer

    I think his decision to go public during the season affects other teams, players and fans adversely.

    Fair enough I guess, but keeping it private or waiting both negatively effect other teams, players, ect. as well. Somebody ends up butthurt no matter what happens. Davis didn’t pull a Melo-esque ‘that team and only that team,’ setting somebody up to get fleeced. Davis didn’t make LA and NO jerk around other players. NO got fair warning, as did all the teams where Davis doesn’t want to play long term. Davis didn’t fail the fans, NO failed the fans in not building a contender. It’d be a far worse move to not tell anyone he’s gonna bounce.

  97. d-mar

    Zion looking a bit human so far against UVA

    Pretty high bar, he’s got 12 points on 5 shots, 2 rebounds, 4 assists, 2 steals, 2 blocks

  98. bockadoo

    @109 Yeah, I see your point. Tough situation all the way around. As the wise Ron Burgundy said “Agree To Disagree”.

  99. Henry George

    Only the delusional think that Frank is a better prospect than Dennis. There is no evidence whatsoever to support that claim. None.

    None, except Knicks Film School.

  100. ess-dog

    Yeah seems like Reddish is trying to be more of a 3 and D guy now.

    Ugh Hezonja starting tonight. Glad I got rid of cable.

  101. Mike R

    Fizdale is trying to not win a game the rest of the year with all this playing time he gives hezonja

  102. wetbandit

    Heckle James Dolan at every opportunity. Sneak in to JD and Straight Shot shows (don’t pay, of course) and heckle. Join Charles Oakley’s legal defense team. Etc.

    Yeah, if there was an organized campaign to heckle Dolan, I’d think it’s more likely than not that he does or says something egregious. It may even work.

  103. Grocer

    Game thread for the ass-kicking?

    Only the delusional think that Frank is a better prospect than Dennis. There is no evidence whatsoever to support that claim. None. None, except Knicks Film School.

    And that’s mostly evidence that maybe Frank has a chance to not be a total bust, not that he has more promise than Smith.

  104. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Who the fuck is this team and what have they done with the Knicks?

    stay tuned, they comin back

  105. Brian Cronin

    Sorry, folks, the last game thread went up automatically, so I thought it was fixed. Oops. No worries, I’ll put up a game thread (and I’ll look out in the future)!

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