Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Thursday, April 17, 2014

New Knicks Uniforms Leaked?

I’ve always been unusually obsessed w/sports uniforms. Throughout my so-called formative years, I could routinely be found doodling my fave players in their respective uniforms, with a scrivener’s obsession for getting all the details – the piping, the logo design – precisely right. This caused me no undue grief w/my teachers who seemed for some strange reason to think that the drawings of Richard Todd et al. splattered all over my notebook was an indication that I wasn’t paying attention in class. I just think it was an early incarnation of multi-tasking, if you will. Maybe it’s because the teams I pulled for ranged from the routinely awful to the tragically flawed (the early 80’s Mets, Jets, Knicks, and Rangers), but sometimes the sartorial decisions were far more fascinating than the actual product on the field.

For example, when the ‘Bockers ditched their Reed-Fazier era digs for a “modern” design, I was positively floored. Having the team name underneath the uni number? That just seemed fundamentally wrong. Going from royal blue and orange to navy and maroon? Unthinkable! It’d be like waking up one morning to a purple sky.

Well, today Chris Creamer gave us mock ups of this season’s long rumored return to the “classic” ‘Bocker look. The illustrations below are taken from screenshots of NBA@k13 (which is apperently some kinda videya game thingy). Check ‘em out.  (Those are last year’s on top as a point of comparison. There aren’t four different sets for this season)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Interesting…let’s break down the changes one-by-one.

1. The black/orange side panels are gone and black has been completely removed from the team’s color palate. This is good. The black trim always seemd to be a pointless nod to the mid-90′s fad off adding black to every team’s uniforms (See: Mets, New York) whether it was historically accurate or worked in any basic compositional sense. The side panels (no matter what color) that extended down the shorts has also been a league wide, pointlessly stultifying trend. Nice to see the Knicks resist conformity here. The added bonus is that one will no longer confuse our guys with the Oklahoma City Thunder. (In terms of their garb — no one would confuse them in terms of their respective level of play.)

Verdict: VERY GOOD THING

2. Unfortunately, they’ve replaced black with a silver/gray, which can be seen in the shoulder piping on both unis. Ugh. There’s no need for a 4th color. Blue, White and Orange are certainly sufficient. You got rid of something stupid (the black) and replaced it with something slightly less stupid.

Verdict: DUMB

3. You’ll also note that “NEW YORK”  is considerably less arched than it used to be. Once again, it’s change for change’s sake that doesn’t add anything to the overall design and actually takes away from whatever “classic” look they were trying to create.

Verdict: DUMB

4. Here’s my biggest problem with this design: The shoulder piping doesn’t go all the way around. We’ll have to see what this looks like on the court, but to me, it’s silly, like the collar pattern that the Charlotte Bobcats just ditched. Not to get repetitive, but it looks like some designer was trying to be clever/add a distinctive element and instead cobbled together something that’s going to be distracting more than anything else.

Verdict: RILLY DUMB

Overall, I still think this is an improvement, but as you can tell, there are a few elements that take away from the impact of the redesign. If you put you’re corporate CFO hat on for a set, it does make sense. By tweaking the “classic” look, it allows us fans to fork over fistfuls of dollars for shirts made for pennies by small children/the indigenous peoples of [free trade zone country X] and still have the privilege to cough up additional ducats for yet another overpriced garment if/when the Knicks have a “throwback” night. I realize the Knicks are a for-profit organization (even if spending by the parent company on the team amounts to 3% of their total budget), but golly, couldn’t they have make a decision that doesn’t just seek to bolster the bottom line and just brought back these?

Clean. Simple. Perfect. And nice beard, Clyde. Make the shorts a little a lot baggier to accommodate the current predilection for wearing freakin’ bloomers out there, though I for one, long for a return of the nut-huggers.

And you, fair Knickerbloggeristas? What say you of this momentus event?

[UPDATE: 2:00pm] Jonah Kaner over at The Knicks Wall (which has been doing some fantastic detective work sussing out all the rumored uni changes), has an image that includes the shorts. You’ll note that the logo has returned to the left leg and there’s now an orange/blue waistband (as opposed to the color of the waistband matching the home white/road blue). Nice old school touch, says I.

Verdict: A GOOD THING

 

34 comments on “New Knicks Uniforms Leaked?

  1. steveoh

    Based off these jersey designs, I look forward for ABCDEFG #46 to become a big star out of nowhere, have Melo get jealous of all the attention he gets, become a restricted Free Agent and then have him walk away for nothing because of spite.

  2. DS

    steveoh: Based off these jersey designs, I look forward for ABCDEFG #46 to become a big star out of nowhere, have Melo get jealous of all the attention he gets, become a restricted Free Agent and then have him walk away for nothing because of spite.

    ABCDEFG #46 is the OLD jerseys. C’mon!

  3. Matt Smith

    I can’t stand the new jerseys judging by the pictures, for most of the reasons you gave. But I can’t even agree with you on the coloring. The black trim makes the orange in the logo/number pop much more in the old ones. I didn’t think the side paneling was excessive, but I don’t mind getting rid of it. These new ones are terrible.

  4. Vctr

    DS: ABCDEFG #46 is the OLD jerseys.C’mon!

    Yea, ABCDEFG was a part of the Kidd deal. Haven’t you heard?

  5. Robert Silverman Post author

    Matt Smith:
    I can’t stand the new jerseys judging by the pictures, for most of the reasons you gave. But I can’t even agree with you on the coloring. The black trim makes the orange in the logo/number pop much more in the old ones. I didn’t think the side paneling was excessive, but I don’t mind getting rid of it. These new ones are terrible.

    But Matt, there was no black trim around the logo/number, just on the piping/side trim. You’re telling me these don’t pop enough for you?

    http://oi52.tinypic.com/903hwj.jpg

  6. Jafa

    steveoh:
    Based off these jersey designs, I look forward for ABCDEFG #46 to become a big star out of nowhere, have Melo get jealous of all the attention he gets, become a restricted Free Agent and then have him walk away for nothing because of spite.

    Hilarious!

  7. Frank O.

    It’s a lock now. Definitely 55 wins. lol

    In my opinion, you either change it, or you don’t.
    This nipping around the edges is a huge waste of time.
    Give me throw back uniform, circa Harry Gallatin, only loose-fitting.
    Keep the uniform simple. Leave the flash to the players.

  8. danvt

    Richard Todd!

    You are the best, Silverman

    I never really cared about unis or numbers. I do remember the Sly Williams era costumes and being relieved when they got back to basics.

    I agree the neck thing is hideous on the new ones though I may buy one because I’ve actually never had one. I had a Philipe Lopez era Red Storm warmup thing. That’s the closest I got. Pathetic.

  9. Z-man

    From Mike K a couple of threads ago:

    “I don’t have the ability to read the site during hours when everyone else is commenting, so it’s actually pretty frustrating when I see a comment that I’d love to jump on but can’t. Although I think you guys are doing a great job without me. Maybe in the future I’ll have the ability to have my voice heard, so be careful what you wish for. ;-)

    Also I think it doesn’t matter where we come from. Just like the athletes we follow, I’m sure many of our favorites are people that we would find repulsive in real life. Basically we are, to each other, just words on a page. In a way it’s a good thing that all the rest is left behind, and it’s our content that we have to stand upon.”

    Understood, Mike, and thanks for responding. Hopefully the “old breed” will be resurrected once the season gets started, there’s clearly lots of good stuff to debate.

  10. Z-man

    From Jafa a couple of threads back:

    “But man, I was getting depressed reading Z-man, ruru and juany8 fawn endlessly about our team and how we are the 2nd best team in the East and should give Miami a run for their money. Like you guys said, we will be very lucky to get past the 2nd round and we will all exhale when the Knicks get past the 1st round.”

    I can’t speak fot the others, but we actually aren’t that far apart. I never said that we should give Miami a run for their money, only that we are likely to have home court in the first round and should win that series, and that if we have home court in the second round we should be the favorite, or at least even money vs. Boston. Why is that so radical to you? Are you convinced that Indiana, Brooklyn, Philly, or Atlanta have less question marks than we do? And if it’s just Boston you believe is better than us, wouldn’t you at least agree that it is very, very close (hence, it wouldn’t necessarily be “lucky” if we beat them, we might just prove to be better?

  11. massive

    Brooklyn hasn’t played 1 game together as a unit and all of their hopes lie on Brook Lopez being worth the money (which is laughable) and Deron Williams playing like he did when he was with Utah.

    Philly’s starting unit projects to be Holliday, Turner, Richardson, Young, and Bynum. Do people seriously believe that is a better starting 5 than what the Knicks will offer?

    Who exactly is a good basketball player on the Hawks outside of Al Horford. I guess Devin Harris is better than Felton, and WP/48 seems to like the season T-Mac had last year, but that’s as far as that goes. If you think they’re better than us, that makes me sad.

    I can see an argument for how Indiana is better than us, but we (potentially) have the best 3 players on both teams in Chandler, Anthony, and Stoudemire. Superstars, more often than not, decide who wins playoff games. I’m taking New York over Indiana in a playoff series (unless Paul George or Roy Hibbert become a top player in the league).

    I refuse to believe the Knicks are clearly, with clearly being the key word here, worse than the Boston Celtics. It’s probably just me being a hater of everything from the Bean town, but these guys were 3 games better than us, and arguably got worse this summer. Does anybody remember when we played the Cs in the last game of the season? Steve Novak and JR Smith combined for as many 3 point makes, that night, as D-Wade had in an entire season. We were clearly the better team heading into the playoffs, they just had better seeding.

    Mind you almost everything imaginable went wrong this year. Every player in our projected play-off starting 5 (Lin, Shumpert, Melo, Amar’e, and Chandler) missed time this year. Then the team stopped giving effort under D’Antoni, Mike Bibby got playing time, etc. It’s not all doom and gloom, people. We’ll win a playoff series this year, for sure.

  12. sidestep

    I’m really disappointed by the new jersey design. What made the old blue jersey look so damn good — the best in the league IMO — was the black and orange stripes running down the sides that formed a continuous line from the sleeve hole to the bottom of the shorts.

  13. Brian Cronin

    I just like how you could be, like, on fire or something like that, Robert, and if new uniform news broke, you’d still be here to talk about it. :)

  14. Jafa

    @13:

    I only think 2 teams are legitimately better than us in the East: Miami & Boston. I think we agree on Miami. As for Boston, barring injuries, in a 7 game series, for us to win I think we would need:

    1. Home court advantage
    2. Amazing play by Melo on offense (think Game 2 of the 2011 playoffs)
    3. Key stops at the end of games by our defense
    4. Key buckets at the end of games by players not named Melo (simply because they will game plan to take the ball out of Melo’s hands late in games)
    5. Smart coaching and play calling by Woodson

    That team is so well coached, so battle tested and so deep that each game will be close and it would come down to us doing a lot of things better than them. As for the regular season, they will do what they always do, which is limit their veterans minutes. Each year they have done so since 2008, they have had a better record than us (including the past 2 seasons). I don’t expect that to change this year.

    So is it close? Yes. Very, very close? No, just close.

  15. Z-man

    @17, I mostly agree, but the one point you make that I take issue with is coaching. Doc Rivers was on the chopping block after the Big 3 trades. What saved him was that he had a virtual coach in KG on the floor. As much as I don’t dig KG’s shtick, he brought the “sacrifice all for the sake of the team, defense and intensity for 48 minutes, go hard at all times in practice” mentality to the Celts and led by example. That, together with the high b-ball IQ of Rondo, Allen and Pierce is what has made them great. I don’t think Doc has done much more than any other good coach would have done, aside from his gift for exhortation. So the question for me is: are the Knicks players smart enough to beat the Celts in the playoffs, and that is a very legit question. And I think that Kidd, Camby, Thomas and Prigioni are very positive steps in that direction.

  16. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Jafa:
    @13:

    I only think 2 teams are legitimately better than us in the East: Miami & Boston.I think we agree on Miami.As for Boston, barring injuries, in a 7 game series, for us to win I think we would need:

    1. Home court advantage
    2. Amazing play by Melo on offense (think Game 2 of the 2011 playoffs)
    3. Key stops at the end of games by our defense
    4. Key buckets at the end of games by players not named Melo (simply because they will game plan to take the ball out of Melo’s hands late in games)
    5. Smart coaching and play calling by Woodson

    That team is so well coached, so battle tested and so deep that each game will be close and it would come down to us doing a lot of things better than them.As for the regular season, they will do what they always do, which is limit their veterans minutes.Each year they have done so since 2008, they have had a better record than us (including the past 2 seasons).I don’t expect that to change this year.

    So is it close? Yes.Very, very close?No, just close.

    The key to the teams’ success will be Kidd and Camby. If aging hits them hard, we’re screwed and will end up with 48 wins. If they somehow maintain their level of play, play significant minutes, and Ronnie Brewer gets 2x the minutes of J.R. Smith, this team could very well end up with 57 wins. Do I think this will happen? No.

  17. Jafa

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: The key to the teams’ success will be Kidd and Camby. If aging hits them hard, we’re screwed and will end up with 48 wins. If they somehow maintain their level of play, play significant minutes, and Ronnie Brewer gets 2x the minutes of J.R. Smith, this team could very well end up with 57 wins. Do I think this will happen? No.

    Couldn’t agree more. That is why I am advocating starting Kidd over Felton. I think we can win 48. I think we can win 50. But I’m allergic to making 57 win predictions for our team as it stands right now.

    Also, Brewer getting more minutes over JR? I don’t think Woodson is that astute of a coach to limit JR the way George Karl did.

    JR is so polarizing – I love his game when he’s on (especially at a 3PT shooter from a double team down low or due to efficient ball movement and when he decides to play hard nosed defense) and hate his game when he is off (especially when he tries to initiate the offense because it tends to end in him taking a low percentage shot). He is good is small doses.

  18. Jafa

    Z-man:
    @17, I mostly agree, but the one point you make that I take issue with is coaching. Doc Rivers was on the chopping block after the Big 3 trades. What saved him was that he had a virtual coach in KG on the floor. As much as I don’t dig KG’s shtick, he brought the “sacrifice all for the sake of the team, defense and intensity for 48 minutes, go hard at all times in practice” mentality to the Celts and led by example. That, together with the high b-ball IQ of Rondo, Allen and Pierce is what has made them great. I don’t think Doc has done much more than any other good coach would have done, aside from his gift for exhortation. So the question for me is: are the Knicks players smart enough to beat the Celts in the playoffs, and that is a very legit question. And I think that Kidd, Camby, Thomas and Prigioni are very positive steps in that direction.

    I give Rivers more credit than that, especially after seeing what he did in Orlando before getting to Boston and hearing those future HOF players talk about his coaching, play calling and leadership. It would be easy to discount SVG as an average coach if you simply said he had D12 playing for him and stop there, but we have evidence from his days coaching Miami that he knows what he’s doing.

    While Kidd, Camby and Thomas help us bridge the veteran leadership, smart playmaking, playoffs battle tested gap, they are new to our team vs. Boston whose vets have been there playing together for a while.

  19. Z-man

    Understood, and they did replace Allen with another veteran in Terry. Re: Doc, not saying that he is bad, or even average, but I’m in the camp with THCJ on this one in that I think there is only a marginal differences in most coaches, so long as they aren’t respected by their key players (SVG) or rigid system guys (D’Antoni). Popovich wasn’t “outcoached” by Brooks, and Rivers wasn’t outcoached by Spoelstra. With deep playoff teams, most coaching is “do no harm.” In key spots, strategy can make a difference, but I doubt that Rivers brings much more to the table than Woodson, i.e. if you switched coaches, the Knicks-Celtics outcome would probably be the same.

  20. sideQuest

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: The key to the teams’ success will be Kidd and Camby. If aging hits them hard, we’re screwed and will end up with 48 wins. If they somehow maintain their level of play, play significant minutes, and Ronnie Brewer gets 2x the minutes of J.R. Smith, this team could very well end up with 57 wins. Do I think this will happen? No.

    Yea this is exactly it. It’s so hard to predict minute allocations though.

  21. Brian Cronin

    Did everyone see the report that the Kings could theoretically move to Virginia Beach? While I doubt that actually happens (I don’t see the Maloofs wanting to actually sell their entire stake in the team and I certainly don’t see them moving to Virginia, so I presume this is all meant to push Sacramento or Anaheim to up their offers), I think that area could definitely support an NBA franchise. They’ve had a population boom and it is pretty upper class money, as well.

    The thing that interests me, though, is that the two teams most likely to move (I would imagine) would be New Orleans and Sacramento – both Western Conference teams. So who would have to move to the Western Conference if either of those teams became the new Virginia Squires? WOULD they even move (as Memphis and New Orleans, while further west than any Eastern Conference teams, are just barely further west than Milwaukee, Chicago and Indiana)?

    What do you all think? Which team would most likely move if New Orleans or Sacramento moved? Would three teams have to move divisions if Sacramento moved East (a Northwest team moving into the Pacific division, a Southwest team into the Northwest division and then a Central team moving into the SouthWest Division)? Or would the Central team move into the Northwest division?

    Milwaukee is the furthest West eastern team, so I guess it would be them.

  22. Z-man

    I wonder if at some point it would make sense to go to a non-geographic division of two conferences, like MLB and NFL. I understand that not all teams play each other every year in those leagues, but it might still work. You could still have an east, middle and west in each conference, split up the NY, FL and TX teams, etc.; or, you could put “local” rivalry teams in the same divisions.

  23. ruruland

    sideQuest: Yea this is exactly it. It’s so hard to predict minute allocations though.

    5 of Smiths last 6 seasons he’s been above .120 WS/48…..in an off ball role where he shot between 573 and .605, on this defense, his WS/48 is likely to be well above that for what it’s worth.

    Smith is not the elite defender Brewer is, but he’s not been as statistically blessed either, never played in a great defense like Chicagos for a full season or the flex offense.

  24. ruruland

    sideQuest: Yea this is exactly it. It’s so hard to predict minute allocations though.

    Def agree with THCJ point regarding Camby, Kidd falling off cliff. That is likely to happen within next 3 years. But why not apply that argument to Boston, San Antonio, LA? All of those old guys carry a much larger offensive and defensive responsibility, and will be asked to play more minutes.

  25. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    ruruland: Def agree with THCJ point regarding Camby, Kidd falling off cliff. That is likely to happen within next 3 years. But why not apply that argument to Boston, San Antonio, LA? All of those old guys carry a much larger offensive and defensive responsibility, and will be asked to play more minutes.

    Because Camby is 38 and Kidd is 40.

    http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Age-model-v2.png

    Garnett and Duncan aren’t THAT old yet. And Kobe, Pau, and company aren’t even close. Nash is a freak of nature, this decade’s John Stockton, and doesn’t eat sugars. He’s insane.

  26. ruruland

    The Honorable Cock Jowles: Because Camby is 38 and Kidd is 40.

    http://wagesofwins.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Age-model-v2.png

    Garnett and Duncan aren’t THAT old yet. And Kobe, Pau, and company aren’t even close. Nash is a freak of nature, this decade’s John Stockton, and doesn’t eat sugars. He’s insane.

    The fundamental differences here are what each player is being asked to do and how much their respective teams rely on those things getting accomplished. I’ve already read that post and if you authored it and the analysis, great job. I think minutes are more important than age, however.

  27. Brian Cronin

    I wonder if at some point it would make sense to go to a non-geographic division of two conferences, like MLB and NFL. I understand that not all teams play each other every year in those leagues, but it might still work. You could still have an east, middle and west in each conference, split up the NY, FL and TX teams, etc.; or, you could put “local” rivalry teams in the same divisions.

    It’s fascinating how the various leagues evolved and solidified. For instance, as you note in your next post, you couldn’t really imagine the NBA ever doing that (and I agree), but it is exactly what the NFL and MLB does.

    Did the NFL ever go the Eastern/Western route in the early days? I honestly don’t recall.

  28. Z-man

    I guess the key time to do it would have been when the NBA and ABA merged, which is what the NFL did. It makes more sense with Football because there are so many fewer games, and in baseball because the leagues were so independently established so long ago, although interleague play muddles things up.

    I will say that it was great in the olden days when the Knicks and Celts would play like 8-10 times a year. I truly wish the league would contract by 5-6 teams, it would make for a better league. Just get rid of the bottom 100 players. You’d also have better rivalries as teams in the same division played each other more. There could be two levels of D-league, similar to baseball, and the Sacramentos and Toronto’s of the world would be in the better league and would win a few championships.

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