NBA Post-Draft Trade/Free Agency Thread

Here is the thread for discussing league-wide deals from draft night and the upcoming free agency period.

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Part-time blogger on the Knicks at and Seahawks at In my free time I hang out at the University of South Carolina and occasionally fill thirsty young minds with knowledge about various and sundry things related to consumer behavior and marketing.

49 thoughts to “NBA Post-Draft Trade/Free Agency Thread”

  1. Donnie on Fields: ““His game is ahead of him. If you look at his stats, he had tremendous stats.”

    I think people here should be happy to read Walsh quotes that include the word stats. This is the exact kind of outside-the-box, stats-over-status pick that posters have been hoping for for years. It may not erase the stench of last draft years past, but Donnie Walsh actually said the word stats!

  2. Fields averaged 25 pts and 12 rebounds against top 25 teams this year (according to the NBA’s Knicks website). Donnie Walsh may really have some gold on his hands.

  3. Z,

    Thank you. This blog was full of hate for these picks, but unlike last year, it looks like the Knicks went after players who project well statistically but perhaps don’t have the ESPN hype that other soon-to-be underachievers have. He and Jordan are more likely to be starters on NBA teams in 3 years than NBDL journeymen. The silver lining to the league-wide cap situation is that it may force the Knicks to play a team of rookie-contract/minimum players, so they can prove whether they can put up numbers while playing 30 MPG in their rookie seasons. If the LBJ/Wade plan fails, this is my most fervent hope. We could be looking at the youngest team in the league next year (so long as they don’t bring Malik Rose back).

    And I’ll just say it now: Wall’s going to be a bust. However, he’ll score 18 in 40 MPG next season on 42% shooting an a high TO%, so ESPN will faun over him like they do Rose.

  4. I’m slowly warming to the Fields/Rautins picks. Then again, if there was any way to spend Dolan’s cash, it would have been to move up in the 2nd round and grab HASSAN EFFING WHITESIDE.

    Sorry for yelling. But Whiteside…Whiteside…

  5. “This blog was full of hate for these picks”

    I just want to say that the blog itself really hasn’t said whether it likes or dislikes these picks, and would like to amend that statement to “some of the commenters on this blog…”

  6. “I just want to say that the blog itself really hasn’t said whether it likes or dislikes these picks”

    Well… not to use your own words against you or anything, but: “If Varnado is still on the board after New York is done with their second pick, I will throw something at my television screen.”

    Since Varnado was still on the board, I’d just figured it was your laptop you’d thrown against it, and just hadn’t been able to join in the hate… :)

  7. I really liked the picks. Fields is a quality player who knows how to score, and Rautins reminds me a lot of JJ Redick, which isn’t bad value for the second round. Now, we’re all just crossing my fingers that LeBron will come… lol

    So what do we think Plan B is?

  8. After initially hearing the picks I was full of…(looks at screen name) yeah. But you know what? After seeing the goodies posted here (and through some of my own digging too) you know what? These guys just may pan out. I’m kinda excited about these guys…didn’t ever think I’d say that about second rounders, but hey, there it is. Now we see if we can get some FA’s.

    I think our best shot is with bringing Lee back…not sure if I’d want Bosh over him (HERETIC!) but we know what Lee can do in this system, and I’m not a hundred percent positive Bosh can replicate that or even exceed that. Better the player you do know than the player you don’t.

  9. On”you can’t teach height,” probably an addendum to that is “you rarely can teach shooting, and if you can it takes many years.” So the mentality behind the Rautins pick is reasonable…and the JJ Redic comparison is interesting. I did like Rautins’ toughness in watching the rare ‘Cuse game. No doubt, the guy can flat-out shoot.

    Because of the JJ pick (although our recent experience with 7-footers with first name Jerome and last name that of an all-time great has not been so pleasant…who’s next, Jerome Bryant?) and the findings re: Fields after closer inspection of his stats, I am far less disappointed than I was on draft night. Honestly, when you hear names of two guys that were on nobody’s draft board (and we all looked at the many mock drafts out there, no? If not, what the hell are we doing on this blog?!) what was the initial late-nite reaction supposed to be?

  10. I’m hopeful about the picks, but don’t you think that the Redick comparison is a little too optimistic?

    Rautins shot about 3-4% worse than Redick in his prime years (and significantly lower FT%), which doesn’t sound too bad. And Rautins is actually considerably better with assists and rebounds. But let’s talk about volume. Redick scored *more than twice* the amount of PPG.

    Senior year:
    Rautins: 12 PPG
    Redick: almost 27 PPG

  11. @13

    Z — looks a bit like Doug Christie, no?

    In terms of play, the more I think about it the more I think a better comparison for Fields may be former Cardinal Josh Childress rather than Wilson Chandler. Childress and Fields are almost identical in size and build. Their birthdays are a week apart. Childress was just 21 when drafted but Fields will be turning 22 tomorrow. (Childress, of course, has far superior hair.) Chandler on the other hand was drafted much younger, at 19, right at the age where Fields and Childress were making the leap to becoming better players.

    True Shooting
    *Childress (3 years @ Stanford): yr1=47%, yr2=52, yr3=60
    *Fields (4 years @ Stanford): yr1=46%, yr2=47, yr3=57, yr4=56
    *Chandler (2 years @ DePaul): yr1=48%, yr2=52%

    *Childress: yr1=15%, yr2=29, yr3=37
    *Fields: yr1=19%, yr2=25, yr3=37, yr4=51
    *Chandler: yr1=29%, yr2=25%

    All three were similar shooters their first two college seasons, where Fields and Childress experienced a leap forward that third season primarily by getting to the line more. That’s a skill that Chandler has yet to develop. To my mind that alone puts Fields on a somewhat different trajectory than Chandler.

    Rebounds (per 40 pace adjusted)
    *Childress: yr1=8.6, yr2=9.4, yr3=10.3 (8, 6.8, 6.8, 6.6 with ATL)
    *Fields: yr1=7.0, yr2=6.7, yr3=8.8, yr4=9.6
    *Chandler: yr1=10.2, yr2=9.2 (7.3, 6.1, 5.9 with NY)

    Fields and Childress both became better rebounders over time in college. Childress held steady at just under 7 with ATL. By contrast, Chandler began as a very good rebounding freshman and has declined each season since.

    Assists (per 40 pace adjusted)
    *Childress: yr1=1.4, yr2=2.5, yr3=3.6 (2.3, 2.6, 2.1)
    *Fields: yr1=2.1, yr2=3.3, yr3=2.6, yr3=3.1
    *Chandler: yr1=1.4, yr2=1.9 (1.9, 2.3)

    Fields looks like a better passer than either Childress or Chandler.

    Of course, these comparisons shouldn’t be taken as gospel. The league environment that Childress played in versus Fields is like night and day. Childress’ era was the Pac10 at arguably its finest. Fields is arguably its worst. Nevertheless, Childress played on some stacked teams. I doubt Stanford currently has any other NBA prospects. It’s worth noting though that Fields played just as well or better than his overall numbers versus the best competition on his schedule.

    I think the extra year of seasoning makes Childress the better immediate comparison for Fields.

  12. Sorry to get off topic for a bit, but there was an article on ESPN, about the Clippers coaching search. The last sentence talked about the Clippers chances of signing Lebron, which stated:

    “According to a source close to LeBron James, the Clippers remain an outside shot at landing the high-profile free agent, with Cleveland, Miami, Chicago and New Jersey as the favorites.”

    I know others have written about how ESPN seems to never consider the Knicks as a possibility for Lebron. I guess this just provides more proof about their anti-Knick sentiment.

    I mean I cannot believe New Jersey would have a better chance than us. Someone at ESPN hates the Knicks I guess.

  13. New Jersey has a better roster than us, but their fans and current location have to be the deal breaker. In theory, New Jersey can look like Devin Harris/Joe Johnson/LeBron/Derrick Favors/Brook Lopez next season (assuming Joe Johnson signs for 10-11 mil with raises). We could look like Douglas/Fernandez/LeBron/Gallo/Bosh, which may or may not be better than Jersey with LeBron and Johnson.

  14. I still find it funny that Carmelo Anthony:

    1)Got an extension worth $60M+ over 3 years

    2) Is believed to be worth $20M a year by the Nuggets’ front office

    3) Claims to care about winning while accepting a contract that nullifies any chance they can contend for a title

  15. Something tells me that the real winners of this free agency are going to be the teams that give up on the big name FAs and instead play facilitator of teams that want to clear cap space. There is just too much cap room for too few worthwhile players. Most of these teams are going to come away losers/overpayers. Word is that the Nets will give you derrick favors if you take Yi’s $4 million contract. We already saw the heat throw bribe a team with a pick. The knicks already traded 2 #1s (hill and future) just to ditch jared jeffries’ contract, which was not really an albatross contract anyway.

    If Wade and LeBron stick at home, NY, Clips, Nets, Bulls are all fighting for scraps. Lets look at it this way – the total cap space between these four teams plus miami post resigning wade is like $145 million. Lets give our next four best players max contracts–
    Lee: 14 million
    Stoudemire: 17 million
    Boozer: 17 million
    Joe Johnson: 17 million
    Rudy Gay: 14 million
    Chris Bosh: 17 million
    that’s $95 million, and for most of these players thats overpaying.

    Of the remaining FAs, there are few worth more than $5 million (i.e. maybe outside of MLE range): Tyrus Thomas, Brendan Haywood (maybe) , Luis Scola, Ronnie Brewer, Udonis Haslem, Al Harrington, Mike Miller.

    If we give them an average of $7 million, that’s $49 million, for a total of $135 million. The rest, IMO, are table scraps — washups or role players, and cap space won’t matter with these player because capped out teams will still be able to afford them via the MLE:

    Drew Gooden, Raymond Felton, Shaq, Ilgauskas, Anthony Morrow, Chuck Hayes, Luther Head, Kyle Lowry, Steve Blake, Channing Frye, JJ Redick, etc.

    This is nearly the ultimate cap space filling situation, where no players use bird rights to resign with capped out teams, and all players are paid a premium. NOw, if James leaves cleveland and Nowitzki leaves dallas, the market cools down a little and pplayers like Lee and Joe Johnson maybe don’t get max contracts.

  16. I don’t know if this proves Utah’s pick sucked or ours was better than it seemed… Gordon Heyward’s stats vs. Landry Fields’ stats:

    Hayward…………………….. Fields
    age 20 ………………………….. 21
    Height w/o shoes 6’6.75………… 6’6.50′
    Weight 211 …………………… 216
    Wingspan 6’7.75′ ……………… 6’9.50′
    standing reach 8’7″ …………… 8’8.50′
    Vert 34.5……………………… 39.0

    PPG 15.5 ………. 22.0
    REB 8.2 ………. 8.8
    Assts 1.7 ………. 2.9
    Stls 1.1 ………. 1.6
    Blks 0.8………. 0.8
    T.o’s 2.3………. 2.6

    FG% 46.4 ………. 49.0
    3p% 29.4 ………. 33.7
    FT% 82.9 ………. 69.6

    Of course, Fields is a bit older, but a nice bit of irony considering that was our pick!

  17. Im still pinning my hopes on signing Bosh at the least and hope LeBron stays in Cleveland if he doesnt sign with the Knicks or if he does go to Chicago not w/Bosh. Wade stays with Miami and they sign Amare or Boozer to play with him. Not sure what happens with Joe Johnson but from what Ive read if LeBron doesnt go to Chicago its a lock the Bulls will sign Johnson instead.

  18. What do you guys think about Josh Howard? I know he’s coming off injury, but I think he can still be productive, weed scandal aside.

  19. Does anyone else hate Harvey Araton of the Times like I do? This last week he posted another one about how we wiffed on Jennings. I mean, I was as mad (madder, really) than the next guy about that, LIKE LAST NOVEMBER, and here’s a post on how LBJ may not come because no Jennings. I mean, gosh darn it, Brandon is a nice piece but not that nice. He also mentions nothing about the fact that, that player, Jennings or Hill, goes against our cap, or that Hill is actually pretty good and had nice moments for the Rockets. I mean, can this guy do some reporting please? Even coming here and learning a couple of things from the regulars would be refreshing. Also, those none of the Times “Blogger’s” actually seem to know what a blog is. I’ve never had a comment on one of my comments. Oy. Interview someone, Harvey!

  20. massive,

    Josh Howard is a bum. His career TS% of .525 is cringe-worthy, especially since he was paid $10M last season to put up a .496 TS% and a 12.7 PER. Every one of his advanced stats on Basketball Reference went down since the year before (or up, in the case of turnovers): ORB%, DRB%, TRB% (obviously), STL%, TOV%, EFG%, TS%, USG%, PER, and WS/48. He is a bum.

    Do I think he might bounce back next season? Sure. He might become a slightly below-average player instead of a waste of a roster spot.

    Do I think the Knicks will be a better team with him instead of a undrafted FA that will cost them $300k or less at SG? Absolutely, positively not.

  21. danvt,

    Jennings is okay. Can’t rebound, among the league’s worst in TS%, EFG%, etc. Okay with steals, but way too short to match up against bigger point guards. I think he’ll be a quality starter by the time he’s in his mid-twenties. Right now, he’s a product of the media hype machine for that scoring performance in November. Big whoop. I’ll take Lawson over him any day of the week. If there’s anyone Lebron should be mad at the Knicks about, it’s Blair. He could have been the Rodman of the 2010s Knicks Dynasty, but instead he’s going to learn how to dominate from the best power forward of the modern era and eventually turn a no-risk 2nd round pick into a few all-star appearances.

  22. THCJ,
    Comparing Blair to Rodman is a joke. Blair had a pretty good rookie year in a limited role on a very good team, but he has limitations that Rodman didn’t. Rodman would probably be a HOFer if not for the antics, and is certainly a HOF rebounder and defender.

    I don’t think he would have made any difference whatsoever in LeBron’s decision. Not to mention, we jettisoned Hill to clear cap space to further entice LeBron; if Blair was that good, maybe we keep him and can only sign one max FA, or trade him anyway.

    I loved Blair, but as a 2-time ACL surgery veteran and a tweener game, he would hardly make a difference.

    PS Hate both J Howard and Jennings. BJ will lose you as many games as he wins you.

  23. Charles Garcia is on our Summer League roster, anybody know anything about him? He’s a 6 foot 9 forward and weighs 220. From what I’m hearing he’s super athletic and hit a jumper (albeit 28% from 3. Could be because he was double teamed a lot), so maybe Mike is looking to make him a 4. I heard that he was a guard until his junior year in high school when he had a growth spurt, so he can handle the ball. He averaged 18.7 pts and 8.3 rebounds this year (I think). Sounds like a good pick-up, Mike might try to make him into a poor Lamar Odom, which may or may not work out. Not trying to compare him to Odom talent-wise, but it looks like they have similar skill-sets.

  24. @17, that’s a good point about the fans and I think if Lebron ends up in NY the fanbase will have something to do with it. Even with the season being a disaster right from the start the Knicks were 8th in attendance with 98.7% of their tickets sold for their 41 home games. They were the only team below .500 in the top thirteen and one of only two teams without 50 wins in the top 13(the Bulls being the other at 99.1%). On top of that, the Knicks have not been outside of the top 10 in attendance in any of the last 10 seasons. That’s a point I’d be hammering home to Lebron if I were Donnie Walsh, a guaranteed packed house full of long suffering and devoted fans desperate for a hero to worship for eternity has to seem better than being the guy who came after Michael Jordan, playing to a bunch of fairweather NJ fans or sharing the spotlight with Dwyane Wade.

  25. massive @ 28..Charles Garcia..I don’t seem 2 remember him-i’m havin a major brain fart-which school did he play 4?

    As far as the draft…I too was like who tha eff is Fields?? But i’m beginning to see a bit of a plan, especially with tha rights to Jordan. Fields seems like a better fit offensively than i’m thinkin we either land a FA big or bring Lee back and play him exclusively at the 4 and Rooster exclusively at the 3..and then use Wil as a part of a package to maybe get a guard like Tony Parker or any guard on a team who may be looking to shed salary. I’m not overly pessimistic on the chances of landin LeBron, but I think Walsh his linin up some sort of alternate plan to have us competitve in 2010 jus incase we lose out on LBJ. But who’s available via trade right now other than Parker or maybe Collison? What about tryin to pry Jason Thompson from SAC? U hafta think that with their trade for Dalembert an the drafting of Cousins, that he’s the odd mad out. Hmmmm….

  26. All the media narrative today is that LeBron to Chicago is a done deal, and now I find myself truly depressed.

    The man has already made up his mind. The whole “bring the teams to me” recruiting pass tells you as much. He doesn’t want to waste his time flying around for what would be an insane media frenzy. We’ll know on July 2nd where he is going.

    And really, if it is Chicago, well, that would make perfect sense on a number of levels, especially if he brings along Bosh. They would be ready to contend next year. No amount of justification is going to make the Knicks look like they are ready to contend out of the gate, and why the shit would he wait? He’s been right there throughout, he’s not going to jump to take a step backwards. The idea that we could pitch him on lowered expectations for the first year is a joke. He doesn’t want to be on a 50 win team that loses to the Magic in the second round.

    Ultimately, the blame for this (speaking pessimistically and assuming the worst) lies with Isiah and Layden. Over a decade of losing culture is impossible to shake overnight, and even with steadier hands at the wheel, it will be years before the Knick franchise regains its lustre. Unfortunately, the only way that happens is if we sign some decent players and make real forward progress, becoming that 50 win team that gets booted every year, short by approximately one generational superstar. If we miss on LeBron, I hope at least for that, and maybe we get one of the top dogs 5-10 years from now.

    /end suicide note

  27. Sheesh, tastycakes. The Bulls seem like the most logical destination but you make it seem like it’s a done deal just because the Times cites “one executive” who “thinks” so.

    And you know something? If LeBron signs w/ the Bulls, we don’t want him anyway. That will be a sure sign that he’s a bland, boring, safe, no balls megastar a la Tim Duncan or A-Rod; undeserving of NYC. He will have never participated in a dunk contest and he will have left his home in Ohio for just another Midwest city for no reason other than to join the team who gives him the best odds to win a championship someday. That’s what you do when you’re Karl Malone and you’re 38 and you’ve already given it all you got to win one in Utah, not when you can be the greatest star in the history of the sport.

  28. It is pretty silly for that Times article to be passed around as “Lebron to the Bulls a done deal” when the actual article is purely supposition.

    I have no doubt that the rumblings in the NBA is that he’s going to the Bulls, but I also have no doubt that those rumblings are mostly due to other executives’ best guesses.

  29. DS,

    That almost made me feel better. Thank you for it.

    But then I remembered that LeBron adds 25-30 wins to any team he’s on, and I got sad again.

  30. By the by, Chad Ford did a podcast with Simmons – I was curious to hear what Ford had to say. It was pretty annoying to see the Kenny Thomas for Jared Jeffries and Nate Robinson trade once again cited as a failure on Donnie Walsh’s part. I mean, perhaps Chad Ford knows better than we, but I am pretty darn sure that that trade was never verified.

  31. It’s interesting to note – how many win shares does an average NBA small forward have? I just wonder what Lebron’s
    “Win Shares Over Replacement Level” would be (and yes, “replacement level” is actually slightly below average, but you know what I mean).

  32. By the way, how is it news that the Knicks are “high on Joe Johnson’s list”?

  33. DS, I have been trying hard to maintain my optimism. Met a random sports fan the other night who was convinced LeBron was going to the Knicks — he gave me the whole “he wants to be a media superstar and can’t be any bigger than if he goes to the Knicks” angle.

    Maybe it’s that I want him to choose a team because it’s the best chance to win, and I wish that were the Knicks, but honestly every other team with cap space looks better from a *purely-winning* perspective. So if he did choose the Knicks, and it was for the aforementioned reason, what would THAT say about him? It would imply — to me — that winning was not the #1 most important thing to LBJ. Don’t get me wrong, I want him in NYC for any reason.

    In the public eye, the Knicks have become the Clippers, just replace spendthrift owner with clueless bimbo owner. Except the Clippers have been to the playoffs recently. *bows head in shame*

  34. Sad to say I’m feeling pretty gloomy like TC. If LeBron stays true to his mantra “it’s all about winning” then how can he not go to Chicago? What would he say at the press conference announcing he’s joining the Knicks? “It’s all about NYC?” “It’s all about the chance to play with Gallinari?” “I love coach D’Antoni”? So I guess we’ll have to settle for the leftovers like Johnson and Stoudemire and hope that we pick up another quality guy in 2011. But contending for a title? I don’t know what plan gets us to that point.

    Damn, I never anticipated the Bulls getting the cap space for 2 max FA’s, damn you Washington!

  35. It’s also just damned luck. If we had won the Derrick Rose lottery, it’d be a different story. Oh wait, wasn’t Noah part of the Eddy Curry deal? FIRE ISIAH

  36. Almost as disappointing as all the “Lebron leaning towards the Bulls” stories because this is actually definitive – it is irksome seeing how few of the notable undrafted players are playing on the Knicks Summer League.

    Charles Garcia is pretty much the only “big” name who has agreed to play for the Knicks so far.

    I mean, Michael Washington? Jaycee Carroll? These guys might not be bad players, but they’re not the top level guys like Jerome Randle, Sylven Landesberg, Jon Scheyer, Mikhail Torrance or even Zoubek.

    Granted, these guys could still play for the Knicks (as these guys are all mostly signing for the Orlando Summer League, leaving them open to the Vegas Summer League), but if they do well for their Orlando teams, they won’t be available, so I would have liked to have seen the Knicks be more aggressive with some of these guys.

  37. Charles Garcia is an exciting add… definitely one of the most exciting/highest upside undrafted guys! A lot of scouts were very high on him. NYK is the perfect situation for him. A team with tons of roster spots is a good play since he’s raw (and undrafted) and it could be best for him to stick around the NBA while he develops (lest he fall off the NBA radar elsewhere and never get another shot). Miami could be an option, but his athleticism should play well for D’Antoni. One interesting thing is that despite all the hype about his athleticism, his athleticism numbers at the combine were right in line with Derrick Character. Character moves well for a big fella, but he doesn’t jump out of the gym. (Played at Seattle, seewhydee77… Not UW, but Seattle University. So pretty weak comp.)

    Jaycee Carroll is another very good play. Guy lit up the Spanish ACB last season. Straight gunner who can put points on the board in a hurry. Also 27 years old, so might have a shot to make the roster and contribute. Could be direct competition for Rautins in a way, though the Knicks probably have enough roster spots to keep both.

    Michael Washington had a much better junior season than senior season, I would call him a good gamble. Can be a very good rebounder AND loves to shoot 3pters at about 6’8.5″ without shoes… so D’Antoni is going to love this kid.

    Would have liked to see the Knicks dominate some of the top undrafted guys a little more. I like their guys, but with all the roster spots I would have liked to see at least a couple of these guys: Jeremy Lin on the Mavs summer league roster, they have tons of guards already. Wiz got Scheyer despite already having Wall, Arenas, AND Hinrich on their roster… plus Nick Young. Kings got both Sylven Landesberg and Wayne Chism. Omar Samhan on the Hawks or Mavs. Bulls got Bouldin. Clipps got Marqus Blakely. Of the 5-10 most heralded undrafted guys, Knicks got maybe one. That’s good in a normal year, but I thought the Knicks could really dominate this season by dangling all those open roster spots.

    Anyone know if Zoubek has signed or whether Foote will participate (given his having signed with Maccabi Tel Aviv)?

  38. I think Josh Howard has to be an option as sort of a plan z for the Knicks. At some point you have to question whether it’s better to piece-meal together a team for the short-term than to overpay a FA you don’t really love long-term. Howard might get the MLE, but might not even get that. Could be a buy-low opportunity for him to resurrect his career and the Knicks to flip him before the deadline in return for a crap expiring and a draft pick. Or maybe he’s just done, I don’t know.

    Seewhydee, Kings signed Thompson’s brother to their summer league squad, so I’m not sure he’s going anywhere. (Ryan Thompson is a legit summer league guy who will play professionally in Europe if he wants, but that’s still a jesture to Jason.)

  39. Final thoughts and then I will gracefully step aside for the Garcia chat…

    Bosh has denied that he will follow LeBron to Chicago whereas the exec. in the Times article said LeBron AND Bosh to Chicago was the “done deal.” I know I’m nitpicking when Brian has already said it all: “I also have no doubt that those rumblings are mostly due to other executives’ best guesses.”

    Also, the Clips are not only incompetent; Sterling has gotten a reputation for being UNWILLING to build a winner if it means cutting into his profits. The Knicks can still hang their blame on Isiah and Layden to some extent and make the case that things will be better now that they’re gone.

    Everything negative Ford says about the Knicks is annoying. The only thing that is going to shut the media up is wins. Look at the Celtics. From 2007 to the end of this playoff run. They’ve been the most unlucky and poorly run franchise, the best team in the NBA, too old and unable to get along, one of the best teams again.

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