You POTENTIALLY give up 29 draft spots. You do potentially give up one pick, you just potentially get another. No one can say the number of picks you’ll give up, or even if Houston will be able to exercise the swap. It’s as ridiculous to pretend it’s only a few spots as it is to pretend it’s 20 spots, though.

The 2nd round pick is not far down the road… it’s this year. Why even worry about anything? Why not just give away all your picks and smoke your money and throw your poo at each other?

Thomas,

“I think Lee is worth giving up Hill and a second pick in order to create the space to keep him while adding a top FA.”

It’s not Hill and a second… It’s Hill, a second, a 2012 1st, and the right to swap 2011 firsts.

the second pick I spoke of is the 2012, all you give up in 2011 is potentially a few draft spots, so you dont lose a pick there. I don’t even count the second round pick as it has the value of a box of M&Ms. It is too far down the road to worry about. We dont know what spot the pick will be or who will at the spot. It could be Dejuan Blair or it could be Lester Hudson. Why even worry about something so uncertain?

I’ll make one new note which I haven’t yet seen posted, on New York’s strength as a media capital.

I’m still lukewarm on T-Mac (we’ve seen so many “late career comebacks” go bust — think Grant Hill, Alan Houston, and on and on). Like many here, though, I’d do the deal if we can dump Jeffries and not give up too much in future drafts.

(Actually, I’d love to hear if anyone on this list can name any late career comebacks that have worked out. There must be at least one?)

But I will note that T-Mac makes the case (that LeBron cannot) of the media power of New York City. People always babble about how LeBron *has* to come to New York so he can win his championship “on the biggest stage.” But as many have noted, endorsers will certainly find LeBron wherever he lives.

Not so for T-Mac. I’ll admit I hadn’t even realized he was injured, healthy, whatever. Who the hell is watching Rockets games these days?!? Nobody.

In NYC, he can attempt a comeback under the brightest lights. Not that everyone would want to do so. But if he can help to lead the Knicks out of the water, it will certainly be noticed. And his endorsement value will rebound anew.

I think the main reason to maximize 2010 cap space is because it’s the biggest FA class ever. 2 of the top players in the world–maybe the top 2–hitting free agency simultaneously before their primes with another All-NBA guy, a few other likely max guys around their primes, some aging studs, and really nice depth… Plus some of the top guys have incentive to get to bigger media markets. Plus lots of teams have space to throw around. 2011 is not nearly as impressive. Duncan and Parker are candidates to stay put. So is Melo. RFAs will sign deals with their old clubs, maybe more than usual with the labor issues but it always happens (only Lee, Gay, and Nate come to mind as bigtime free agents from their class).

“Walsh has obviously decided that they really have to be in with full steam ahead this off-season and not worry that much about 2011 and beyond. Obviously its a risk but its a risk that I and obviously Walsh and D’Antoni are willing to take.”

Until the deal goes through it’s not obvious. All I’m saying is that the rumored deal is a whole lot to give up. I understand why he might go all in this offseason, but you can’t just say screw everything after this offseason. If he strikes out with the top few FAs this offseason, this will most likely have been a miscalculation and possibly a costly one.

Walsh has obviously decided that they really have to be in with full steam ahead this off-season and not worry that much about 2011 and beyond. Obviously its a risk but its a risk that I and obviously Walsh and D’Antoni are willing to take.

Agree 100% on the 90′s Knicks thing. (You’d be surprised how many people don’t, though.)

I would say that this prospective trade represents more of the “Championship or bust” attitude, though. The Knicks can add one max guy + a good guy (maybe Lee) or maybe 3 good guys (maybe including keeping Lee) without making this trade. They would then have their young guys already on board, their picks after 2010, and 2011 cap space to continue building that strong team.
This trade would mostly be about LeBron James (and rightly so). About recruiting him through the ability to add a top notch (All-NBA) sidekick, and with that sidekick plus the Knicks’ leftovers (Gallo, WC, Douglas) and some cheap signings (2nd rounder left over, vets and young guys on minimum deals) become an almost instant contender.

Loathing,
“Yes, I’d love to see the Knicks sign LeBron and Wade then re-sign Lee and then steamroll everyone to a title. But we all know that’s not gonna happen.”

Hmmm??? If Donnie Walsh actually makes this deal it’s precisely because he thinks that can happen. Maybe not signing both plus Lee and maybe not steamrolling everyone, but sign two max players.

Teams CAN go from pathetic to powerhouse in one offseason. It’s hardly frequent, but teams that do things like sign the best player on the planet certainly can do it. The Knicks are hoping to do that.
The Celtics are the best recent example, by the way. Atlanta isn’t really a powerhouse yet, and they got where they are through a long process.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yg3yx4c

I mean, I’m completely out of it here, right?

Baby steps.

Yes, I’d love to see the Knicks sign LeBron and Wade then re-sign Lee and then steamroll everyone to a title. But we all know that’s not gonna happen. If we actually sneak in the playoffs next year I think most of us will be happy. Improvement is key here. Very rarely does a team go from pathetic to powerhouse in one offseason. Yeah, Atlanta did it, but they still did that mainly through the draft.

For the people complaining about not wanting to be a team who just makes the ECF every year and loses, all I have to say is huh???? The NBA has the least amount of parity of any sport by a mile. Hell 2 teams have combined to win almost HALF of every championship in the history of the league. Its hard to even give yourself a shot at reaching the Finals is this league so if you can put together a team that can make the 2nd round of the NBA for 9 years in a row like the 90′s Knicks you will be able to breakthrough once or twice to the Finals like they did and hopefully win 1 which unfortunately they were 1 win short of doing in 1994.

If these moves allow us to put together a team that at the minimum will be a consistent 50 win team and a Final 4 team in the East for the next 5 years or so then Im totally happy with that because hopefully 1 or 2 years in that stretch they will be able to get to the Finals and God knows maybe win one.

re: 104, I mostly agree with your point, except that what Hill having been a #8 pick so recently impacts is his upside potential. A lot of guys struggle as rookies and pull it together to have good or great NBA careers. Some guys (Frye comes to mind), blow their wads as rookies and never improve. On average, though, the #8 pick is going to have more value than the #25 pick.
As far as insight gained through 1/2 his rookie season… Maybe Walshtoni have already written Hill off as a bust because he doesn’t work hard, is an asshole, is stupid, and just isn’t as talented or athletic as they thought–totally hypothetical here–and even in that case they might be wrong. More likely, though, they might regret picking him a little and be a bit bearish on him, but see a lot of the same flashes we see: sweet J, good rebounding, and the shot-blocking/athleticism to become a good NBA defender if he works hard.
NBA production is more important now, but as a rookie ceiling and likelihood of reaching it is still an important thing. As a 6-9 interior player Hill’s at least a top 15 kind of value still.

Curry was never as talented as the hype in the first place, but I also think a lot of it is mental. As an 18 year old kid he had the ability to be a good, valuable NBA player. How valuable, I don’t know. So, I don’t think the reason he won’t log minutes again is because he’s one dimensional, but because he doesn’t have the mental make-up to play in the NBA. If he were really tough mentally he’d find work in the NBA once this huge contract expires. He’ll probably end up joining Marbury in China, though.