Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, September 22, 2014

Mobley to Retire on Thursday

ESPN is reporting that Mobley will make the announcement on Thursday.

… And, big day for NY baseball, huh?

65 comments on “Mobley to Retire on Thursday

  1. David Crockett

    man, that’s some bad luck for us.

    Yeah, that’s a pretty crappy break given that the guy has been playing with the condition since college. I just hope Cat will be able to live his life first and foremost, obviously.

    But damn. Talk about having no backcourt depth. The Balkman trade was just dumb–or at least, it doesn’t seem like sound roster management.

  2. BigBlueAL

    Well at the least hopefully Marbury will be gone soon and these situations will be resolved and the Knicks could add PEJr and another guard and stop playing so damn short-handed. Of course, best of all would be Nate coming back….

  3. Reebok1303

    Does this affect the Knick’s cap situation for next season? Mobley was to make 9.5 million next season and New Yorks cap # looked around 69.5 million, without counting draft picks.

    I know this doesn’t change their 2010 plans at all, just curious if the team could actually be at or around the cap next year.

  4. Reebok1303

    Also, any guesses about a D league guy getting a chance to fill the roster spot – maybe a 10 day contract to get some minutes at least until Nate gets healthy?

  5. Gorky

    Seriously, why did this happen? Was it Cat or the Knicks who decided that he couldn’t play for the Knicks while he had played for many other teams? Did the Knicks refuse to sign that waiver that he apparently signed with other teams? IS this part of some (insane?) master plan? What’s going on?

  6. Brian Cronin

    I think he probably figured he’s towards the end of his career, why risk his very life (as well as the ability to sue the Knicks) to play for a team that doesn’t plan on winning (and if they do plan on winning, it’s not with him involved)?

    But yeah, this definitely sucks.

    You have to figure Dee Brown will be the pick-up, no?

  7. Be Wise

    I take issue when people constantly bemoan the idea that the Knicks are tanking the next two years. I have several points to make. The first is a general point. There are three types of teams in the NBA. 1 – Championship contenders. 2 – Teams that are improving and may become contenders. 3 – Teams that aren’t improving and aren’t contenders. The Knicks have, for years, been in the dreaded category 3, the worst category. Zack Randolph, Jamal Crawford and Stephon Marbury are destined to forever play for teams in category 3. They have never been ‘winners’. Without them we can play guys who try and with effort will improve (the post-Jailblazers Portland strategy). This brings me to my next point: purging the roster of those three players is an improvement in and of itself. The Knicks are right around .500, which is much better than we have been the last few years. This team would crush the teams of years past. I don’t think the Knicks are tanking. I think they are trying to have it both ways; both compete and position for the Lebronival of 2010. We are in the playoff picture, granted we will not get out of the first round, but we are there. That and we are improving. This is way more than we could say at any point in the past few years.

  8. Brendan

    So weird to read that he’s retiring tomorrow- I have a close family member getting out of the hospital after heart surgery tomorrow as well. Here’s hoping that Mobley leads a long and fulfilling life after the NBA (and that his roster spot is rapidly taken by a useful guard.)

  9. Ted Nelson

    Any thoughts on the J-Rich trade? I just read a Hollinger ESPN piece saying the Suns made a huge steal and will be a contender again in the West (http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=sunscatstradehollinger-081210&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab2pos2). I disagree in that I don’t think the Suns get much better.

    Hollinger says that they’ll regain their offensive identity, and they probably will improve significantly offensively, but the Suns were the 6th offense and 24th defense in the NBA before the trade. So they trade away their two best wing defenders for an average defender and slightly above average high-usage/low to medium-efficiency scorer who is likely to regress towards his career average as a 3-point shooter after a hot start? I don’t know that it makes them any worse, but with expectations suddenly raised and unlikely to be met this trade might help the Knicks pursue Amare in 2010…
    I guess I could see the Suns offense becoming top 3 in the NBA, them having fun, and their defense picking up as a result of the raised spirits… kind of a stretch though. This might have been the best move they could make, but I just don’t think they’re much better as a result.

    I also see this as another case of Hollinger’s analysis being handcuffed by PER. They got an “above average” player for two “below average” players, so clearly the Suns are on their way to a title (I’ll feel dumb if they win it this season).

  10. Brendan

    I blogged about this which should be up by now, and not to regurgitate that, but… I’d agree with you that I liked it a bit less than Hollinger for the Suns, but I do think they get a bit better. Bell has the big fork sticking out of his back at this point; he’s not at all what he was defensively and what he does on the other side of the ball Richardson does as well, except better, and he’s younger, etc. I expect him to keep his shooting up as well; he was over 40% from range last year, so there’s precedent. Diaw- is he really all that good defensively? He’s ok, but the drop from him to whoever the next reserve is (Dudley? Lopez? Amundson?) to my mind isn’t precipitous enough to offset the gain you get from Richardson. If Lopez sees more burn, maybe they even hold their ground on that side of the ball.

    I’d say the major gain for Phoenix from this trade is to have another useful young building block who can contribute to the current team, and possibly be a constituent of the next good Suns team as well. As such, maybe the expectations gap helps drive Amare out of town, but maybe the presence of other good young players who are also clearly sidemen instead of leaders helps keep him around. It gives the Suns the option to totally blow it up next year and move Shaq and Nash as expirings if they really want to, while still having some good young parts to fall back on.

    Now if you can tell me why the Bobcats did this I’d love to hear it, especially if the answer is something other than “Larry Brown hates whoever he’s currently coaching”….

  11. Duff Soviet Union

    I said my piece in one of the other threads, but yeah, what Brendan said. Good to see you blogging again btw.

  12. David Crockett

    I think he probably figured he’s towards the end of his career, why risk his very life (as well as the ability to sue the Knicks) to play for a team that doesn’t plan on winning (and if they do plan on winning, it’s not with him involved)?

    But yeah, this definitely sucks.

    You have to figure Dee Brown will be the pick-up, no?

    That’d be my guess. If I have time today (last day of final exams) I’ll try to put together a list of possibles.

  13. David Crockett

    Hollinger says that they’ll regain their offensive identity, and they probably will improve significantly offensively, but the Suns were the 6th offense and 24th defense in the NBA before the trade. So they trade away their two best wing defenders for an average defender and slightly above average high-usage/low to medium-efficiency scorer who is likely to regress towards his career average as a 3-point shooter after a hot start? < ...>

    I also see this as another case of Hollinger’s analysis being handcuffed by PER. They got an “above average” player for two “below average” players, so clearly the Suns are on their way to a title (I’ll feel dumb if they win it this season).

    It seems like the kind of deal where, had Isiah Thomas or Kevin McTimberwolf swung a similar deal, Hollinger would have nailed him to the wall. Jason Richardson gives a team an identity? Really John? You’re going with that?

    This deal seems like the proverbial shuffling of deck chairs. Phoenix got better talent coming back (and I think Jared Dudley is a useful player), but it’s hard to see any real direction.

  14. Ted Nelson

    Brendan,

    I’ll check out your blog.

    I do think Diaw is a significatly better defender than Richardson/Dudley/Amundson/etc., and I don’t know that he’s a much worse offensive player than Richardson (at least Richardson as a primary scorer as he was in Charlotte).
    I guess the Suns rotation is more balanced now: Nash, Richardson, Barbosa in the backcourt, Hill, Barnes, maybe Dudley on the wing. Their frontcourt’s a bit thin in the regular season, but Shaq will probably start playing heavy minutes in the playoffs (I assume they make them). It could help them in their move away from the 7-seconds system to a more traditional half-court set.
    Even if Richardon shoots 40% from 3 on the season, he’s going to be somewhere below 40% from here on in (I didn’t realize that the same can be said for both Diaw, TS% 60 3p% 36, and Bell, 3p% 47).
    I don’t hate the deal from the Suns’ perspective, but with a bottom 5 defense they’re not contending for anything and I’m not even sure their offense got better. It depends if Richardson can improve his efficiency when he (presumably) decreases his usage. Their O should get better and I can certainly see why they made the deal, I just don’t love it. Dudley could be a wildcard, but I don’t see him as much more than an adequate end of rotation guy and he may have to play a lot of minutes at the 4 for the Suns unless Lopez’s minutes increase.
    From a team building perspective, in 2010 Richardson is 30 and if Shaq, Nash, and Hill leave (presumably) the 2nd best player on their team (Barbosa? Lopez?). If the Suns get knocked out in the 1st round the next two years Amare may be motivated to leave. You’re right that he might value being “the man” in Phoenix (or somewhere else) more than (potentially) winning as LeBron’s wingman in NY, but with a couple 1st round exits stinging and the chance to reconnect with D’Antoni maybe he jumps. (I’d personally prefer Bosh, Wade and maybe even the cap flexibility over Amare. Because of the lack of D/rebounding and the possibility he’ll be losing a step at that point. His efficient scoring next to LeBron is probably enough for a dynasty with a good supporting cast, though.)

    Yeah, it probably mostly has to do with LB and/or MJ from Charlotte’s perspective. I think it’s a decent move from a basketball perspective for them, though. They seem to be betting that Bell hasn’t fallen off too far, which might bite them, t hbut with his short contract maybe they were well aware thae’s fallen off. It gives them two smart veterans, at least, something Charlotte has seemed to lack.
    They’re a defensive team (15th in the NBA) and I think they got better defensively. At least I think Diaw’s an improvement, we’ll have to see what Bell has left. Both guys they gave up are respectable defenders, but the two guys they got are potential difference makers. It’s also a rotation balancing move for Charlotte, giving them a passable PF while filling some of the minutes vacated by Richardson at the 2.
    Offensively I’m not convinced that they got worse. Richardson was a very high usage / medium-low efficiency player. Okafor hasn’t been getting many looks for them, so giving he and Augustin some of Richardson’s possessions could make them more efficient as an offense. Diaw’s passing in the frontcourt should improve their ball movement and make the offense more dynamic, take playmaking pressure off Augustin (especially if they want to move Felton). While he doesn’t bring much else offensively, Bell is an outside shooter who knows how to play.
    At 7 and 15 they had to change something, really they never should have traded the #8 pick for Richardson in the first place. I would have tried to move Richardson for an expiring contract with an eye on the future, but maybe they really like Diaw.

  15. David Crockett

    Does this affect the Knick’s cap situation for next season? Mobley was to make 9.5 million next season and New Yorks cap # looked around 69.5 million, without counting draft picks.

    I know this doesn’t change their 2010 plans at all, just curious if the team could actually be at or around the cap next year.

    I may be wrong on this, but my understanding is that a medical retirement does not impact the cap. The Knicks could apply for a medical exemption. However, if memory serves, the league guards those pretty jealously.

    Didn’t NY have to carry Luc Longley’s salary on its books for its full term, which stretched several years after his knees (and general suckiness) forced him to retire?

  16. Ted Nelson

    One assumption that I didn’t mention is that I think in the case of not having a high-usage “go-to scorer” your offense is better off spreading the ball then annointing a subpar “go-to scorer.” In this sense I think the deal will help Charlotte spread their possessions rather than using the crutch of their Crawford/Randolph type. Given that Diaw, Bell, and really whoever takes J-Rich’s minutes/possessions don’t totally stink from here on out. If they get Okafor (currently 10th on the team in FGA/36) a few more looks and Diaw’s playmaking load increases to where it’s been in prior seasons I don’t see the Bobs offense getting much worse.

  17. Duff Soviet Union

    “I don’t see the Bobs offense getting much worse.” That’s because it really CAN’T get much worse. Sorry, I know I’m quoting you out of context there, but I couldn’t resist.

  18. Brian Cronin

    It seems like the kind of deal where, had Isiah Thomas or Kevin McTimberwolf swung a similar deal, Hollinger would have nailed him to the wall.

    I think Hollinger sounds a bit biased in the piece, but I think it’s just to PER, not to Kerr.

    Hollinger ripped him to shreds for the Shaq deal last year, and has had many negative pieces about Kerr.

    I think it’s, as others have noted, Hollinger just over-relying on PER.

  19. o_boogie

    I am sorry to hear about Cat. I hope he is able to continue to live a fulfilling and safe lifestyle.

    If we sign Ewing Jr, what are the chances he would crack the rotation this season? Considering he is a 3/4 tweener (and possibly a 3/4/5 tweener under D’Antoni) he will have to compete with Lee, QRich, Harrington, Chandler, and Jeffries. I am intrigued by Jr’s skillset (poor man Marion), so I hope he is able to find minutes. Also worth noting that he is 24 yrs old, so he may be closer to reaching his ceiling compared to Chandler (21 yrs old).

  20. Italian Stallion

    I’m not a doctor, but it sounds to me like this is not the same condition he was playing with (and signing waivers for). Before, he was playing with an enlarged heart. This disagnosis seems to have something to to do with a thickening of the walls of the heart and is more of a risk.

    Perhaps someone with some medical background can clarify it a little.

    If my understanding is correct, I would retire too. There is no upside to playing. He’s already had a fine career, made plenty of money, and would only be a couple of years from retirement anyway. IMO, it would be foolish to play and add any risk to the existing probability he could die early.

    This sucks for the Knicks who more or less traded Randolph and Collins for Thomas, but random shit happens. I’d rather see Mobley walk away and have a long life. This trade may be the best thing that ever happened to him because it forced more thorough testing.

  21. Dan Panorama

    Regarding J-Rich — he seems perfect for Phoenix’s offense, though, right? He’s super athletic and can hit open threes like a maniac (he’ll probably get at least 2.5 a game with Amare, Nash, and Shaq opening things up, possibly over 3).

    Getting rid of Bell and Diaw seems to indicate they’re shifting their priority back to offense, but it also might indicate their faith in Robin Lopez to pick up the slack on D and play a larger role. He’s only playing 11 minutes a game now and the Suns seemed pretty confident that he would be a part of their long term plans when they drafted him.

  22. Ted Nelson

    “I don’t see the Bobs offense getting much worse.” That’s because it really CAN’T get much worse. Sorry, I know I’m quoting you out of context there, but I couldn’t resist.

    No, absolutely. That’s part of my point: J-Rich wasn’t helping them too much. I think it was smart to trade him, although they might have gotten a better deal elsewhere (maybe there’s some team out there that would trade Brandan Wright and a cap exception for J-Rich…kidding). I don’t think Diaw/ Bell was a terrible deal, although also giving up Dudley AND a 2nd rounder does push it distinctly in that direction. (The 2nd rounder sort of stinks of Isiah-like, it’ll be a late 2nd anyway, confidence.)

    Overall, I’d say that on paper this could be a (small) win-win. It solves some problems for both teams. I’d probably agree it looks a little better for Phoenix, but that also might have something to do with the other pieces on their roster (J-Rich comes into a supporting role, whereas Diaw and Bell had better produce or the Bobs will keep losing). I just think Hollinger went way too far, maybe in part to sell ads, Insider subscriptions, whatever.

    One thing that is really amazing is that between 2005 and 2007 the Bobs went a little against the more “consensus” opinion to make “safe” moves and ended up picking Felton over Bynum, May over Granger, Morrison over Roy, and trading a pick where B. Wright/Young/J. Wright/Noah/etc. were available. Augustin, Roy, Granger, Okafor, and Bynum with B. Wright/Young/J. Wright/Noah/etc. as a 6th man… I know they wouldn’t have ended up with those picks, etc. but even getting it right 1 out of 4 they could maybe be a playoff team in the East right now or looking like they would be next season, and in each case I think the “right” move would have been more approved of by others than the Bobs actual move.

  23. Gorky

    The Phoenix trade is terrible from the Suns point of view. They already had no backup to Nash, and now they lose their 2nd best ball-handler and distributor in Diaw. Stupid.

  24. Brendan

    Alen Hahn says the cap impacts of the Mobley deal aren’t quite certain yet- depends which clause he falls under, medical retirement or injured player exemption: http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/blog/2008/12/knicks_may_have_a_cba_debate_w.html

    Ted, I think the only place we really strongly differ is on Diaw, who drives me nuts whenever I watch him. I think he’s French Tim Thomas (in the sense of potential vs. actual) with a little more d and a little less shooting, and I will note that (as an alternative to PER) he produced a -0.04 Adj. +/- last year, Bell produced a +1.42, and Richardson produced a +2.61 (numbers from basketballvalue.com). Those aren’t be-all end-all numbers any more than PER is, but they’re part of what makes me so uncertain of Diaw’s value- to the eye he seems good but not great, and in a situation where he might have been the best defender on the team for half the year he still didn’t have enough to offset his offense and make an overall positive impact.

    Diaw’s got slightly better figures this year (+2.30) though there’s a lot of noise in quarter-season numbers, and he’s been a plus defender and negative scorer relative to Phoenix in both years, but I don’t know if he’s really a plus defender on a playoff team which doesn’t have Phoenix’s offense-first skew. Which he really has to be, since he does so little elsewhere. He and Okafor also make a pretty small frontline, and I can’t get away from the suspicion that the first time he refuses to shoot an open jumper or puts up a completely vacant box score for a half Larry will bury him under the bench; that just seems like a giant personality conflict waiting to happen.

    We shall see, though; if nothing else this trade suggests Larry’s got full control in Charlotte, which is always fun to watch from a safe distance.

  25. blackriderx

    Power that be,

    any progress or response to my request to number the comments? Just easier, especially for a well commented post, to return to where one had last read off.

    Thanks.

  26. Thomas B.

    Why Dee Brown? I know that slam dunk contest win was great back in 1991 but the guy just turned 40. Surely we can do better.

    Young cheap bodies…

    Jared Jordon
    Davon Jefferson
    Jamont Gordon
    Drew Neitzel

    Blasts from the past…
    L. Spreeeeeeeewell, Hey he’s got a family to feed.
    Fred Jones. If at first you really suck, try-try again.
    Mike Sweetney. “Hey Jerome, get your own sack of White Castle Sliders!”
    Allan Houston. “I can’t run, but I can still gun.”
    Herb Williams. It not the first time a player turned coach turned player again.

  27. TDM

    The Clippers still have a roster spot open. Any chance they’ll pull a McDyess and re-sign Mobley?

    On the PHX trade, Diaw took some parting shots and praised Mike D:

    Diaw lamented how his role had changed to being a traditional power forward and did not allow him to use his versatility. It affected his passion for the game.

    “It definitely wasn’t as fun,” Diaw said. “It wasn’t as exciting for the fans. It’s not as fun for everybody (on the team). I’ll always remember Phoenix with (previous coach) Mike (D’Antoni). We went from a winning team that was the most exciting team in the league to a half-winning team that wasn’t exciting at all.”

  28. Thomas B.

    Any thoughts on the J-Rich trade? I just read a Hollinger ESPN piece saying the Suns made a huge steal and will be a contender again in the West

    I think it means that just about everyone on the Cats’ roster is up for grabs. I’d look at Raymond Felton-he isnt hurt is he?. He could probably back up Duhon better than Roberson, who really should be playing the Eddie House role-get open and shoot when you can.

  29. TDM

    The Clippers still have a roster spot open. Anyone think they’ll pull a McDyess and re-sign Mobley?

    Regarding the PHX trade, Diaw took some parting shots and praised Mike D:

    “It definitely wasn’t as fun,” Diaw said. “It wasn’t as exciting for the fans. It’s not as fun for everybody (on the team). I’ll always remember Phoenix with (previous coach) Mike (D’Antoni). We went from a winning team that was the most exciting team in the league to a half-winning team that wasn’t exciting at all.”

  30. Ted Nelson

    Yeah, I’m not trying to generally disagree with you. As far as talent/production/the individual players traded… I agree Diaw is a bit maddening, but I also think he’s the kind of guy who’s most underrated by the general public or the PER formula: defends, passes well for a forward but not like a PG, low usage, poor rebounder. I think Richardson is exactly the kind of guy who’s overrated by PER or just the general public. Overall I would probably agree Richardson was the best player in the trade, at least offensively. I’m not too familiar with adjusted +/-, I know it adjusts for the talent on the floor but would it still matter who you’re subbing in for?

    In the end it’s not really about “winning” a trade (as we learned from Isiah), it’s about building a team. From that perspective I think both teams did ok.

    -The Suns added a guy who might thrive as a scorer being the 3rd, 4th, or 5th option on the floor at any given time, although I don’t think that’s a given (that his TS% will skyrocket to the 57-60% range where they need him to be… because that’s where Bell and Diaw were for the 6th ranked offense so far). Also, there’s only one ball to go around so it’s sometimes nice to have defenders, passers, and spot up shooters as the 4th or 5th option on the floor (anyone in this trade come to mind?). So, the Suns may or may not have improved their offense and they’re unlikely to have improved their defense as a direct result of this trade. In 2 or 3 seasons when Bell’s collecting his pension and the Suns potentially have 3 rotation players from the deal it might look better for them.
    -The Bobs offense was already terrible so, while it’s counter intuitive to a lot of people, I think removing the guy who takes the most shots is a good move. Get more shots for your more efficient scorers (Okafor, Augustin primarily) and move the ball to get better shots (we’ll see if LB goes for any sort of motion offense, unlikely). Their defense might improve, as long as Raja Bell’s not completely shot. If they did improve it might only be a bad thing for them in the long-run (lottery position) and I probably would have gone for cap-space/youth.

  31. Thomas B.

    Sadness in New York today as Cutino Mobley annouces the end of his long and storied career with “America’s Team”-the New York Knickerbockers.

  32. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger)

    Power that be,

    any progress or response to my request to number the comments? Just easier, especially for a well commented post, to return to where one had last read off.

    Thanks.

    blackriderx – you can easily refresh the page & return to where you just read off. My way – click on the link next to the person’s name (the date). Hit your home key (you will be at the top of the page) then refresh (F5). The page refresh & bring you right back down to the comment you last read.

  33. blackriderx

    Thanks for the reply PTB,

    But I meant it more in the sense of checking the comment number (say 28), closing the page, stepping out for meeting lunch or meeting, returning, going to bookmark, back to KnickerBlogger, see comments are at 52, etc.

    No biggie, not having everything is not the worst thing.

  34. Thomas B.

    Power that be,

    any progress or response to my request to number the comments? Just easier, especially for a well commented post, to return to where one had last read off.

    Thanks.

    blackriderx – you can easily refresh the page & return to where you just read off. My way – click on the link next to the person’s name (the date). Hit your home key (you will be at the top of the page) then refresh (F5). The page refresh & bring you right back down to the comment you last read.

    ? Nick Burns-Your Company’s Computer Guy. ?

  35. Thomas B.

    http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm

    “How do retired players count against the cap?
    Any money paid to a player is included in team salary, even if the player has retired. For example, James Worthy retired in 1994, two years before his contract ended. He continued to receive his salary for the 1994-95 and 1995-96 seasons, so his salary was included in the Lakers’ team salary in those seasons. It is at the team’s discretion (or as the result of an agreement between the team and player) whether to continue to pay the player after he has retired.

    There is one exception whereby a player can continue to receive his salary, but the salary is not included in the team’s team salary. This is when a player is forced to retire for medical reasons and a league-appointed physician confirms that he is medically unfit to continue playing. There is a waiting period of one year following the injury or illness before a team can apply for this salary cap relief. If the waiting period expires mid-season (on any date prior to the last day of the regular season), then the player’s entire salary for that season is removed from the team’s team salary. For example, in March 2003 the Knicks were allowed to remove Luc Longley’s entire 2002-03 salary from their books (and since the luxury tax is based on the team salary as of the last day of the regular season, the Knicks avoided paying any tax on Longley’s salary). This provision can also be used when a player dies while under contract.

    Teams are not allowed to trade for disabled players and then apply for this salary cap relief. Only the team for which the player was playing when he was disabled may request this relief.

    If a player retires, even for medical reasons, his team does not receive a salary cap exception to acquire a replacement player.”

  36. mhev35

    so im confused. is that article in newsday saying that the knicks wont be allowed to fill mobleys vacant roster spot or is it just stating that it doesnt allow them to use the 9million to sign another player and therefore have to sign a player at minimum value? hopefully its just the salary thing

  37. Italian Stallion

    so im confused. is that article in newsday saying that the knicks wont be allowed to fill mobleys vacant roster spot or is it just stating that it doesnt allow them to use the 9million to sign another player and therefore have to sign a player at minimum value? hopefully its just the salary thing

    I believe it’s just the salary they can’t use.

    There is a type of medical situation where the team can also use part/all??? of the salary, but the Knicks would not qualify because they KNEW about Mobley having a problem PRIOR to actually agreeing to the deal.

  38. mhev35

    thanks IS i was a little confused because of this sentence…

    The Medical Retirement only removes the salary from the payroll, but there are no exceptions that allow the capped-out Knicks to sign a replacement.

    but that makes more sense now that the “replacement” is just meaning salary wise. thank you

  39. Z

    Walsh says he’s in no rush to fill Mobley’s vacated roster spot. Not sure what he’s holding out for, unless he’s planning a 2 for 1 trade next week. (Or maybe he just likes what he sees in Tim Thomas at the point).

    And with all this talk of medical retirement, why oh why hasn’t Jerome James taken one?

  40. Brendan

    “And with all this talk of medical retirement, why oh why hasn’t Jerome James taken one?”

    Dunno…has anyone tried covering the documents for it in chocolate sauce?

  41. Ted Nelson

    It’s looks like as I suggested earlier today, Mobley’s condition is more serious than his previous teams thought and this trade may have saved his life.
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12/12/sports/basketball/12knicks.html?_r=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
    http://njmg.typepad.com/knickknacks/2008/12/saved-by-a-trade.html

    I thought there was no discussion on this one…

    Walsh says he’s in no rush to fill Mobley’s vacated roster spot. Not sure what he’s holding out for, unless he’s planning a 2 for 1 trade next week. (Or maybe he just likes what he sees in Tim Thomas at the point).
    And with all this talk of medical retirement, why oh why hasn’t Jerome James taken one?

    I would be in a rush to at least sign a fill-in if I were Walsh…

    I read some quotes a couple weeks back quoting James that he wants to play at least once more this season, and then he’d be more than willing to take a medical retirement. Basically said he wants to prove he’s really been injured and wasn’t just being lazy.

  42. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger)

    Thanks for the reply PTB,

    But I meant it more in the sense of checking the comment number (say 28), closing the page, stepping out for meeting lunch or meeting, returning, going to bookmark, back to KnickerBlogger, see comments are at 52, etc.

    No biggie, not having everything is not the worst thing.

    This better?

  43. blackriderx

    Wow, awesome!

    Power That Be is indeed powerful. Thanks, hope it wasn’t too much work.

    So I still don’t understand the Mobley situation. What relief if any might the Knicks get? Sounds like none, but that’s possible?

  44. Gian Casimiro (SSoM)

    Hahn:
    http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/ny-spknix125962039dec12,0,2040928.story?track=rss

    “The Knicks could look to former NBA players Carlos Delfino or Jannero Pargo, who currently are playing in Russia. They also will consider trades involving current NBA players, with names such as Sacramento’s Quincy Douby and Portland’s Sergio Rodriguez on the list.”

    Not sure if he’s just starting a rumor with the Delfino name-drop but I found it interesting. Checked out his stats and half of his shots came from downtown (hitting 38%) so it seems like he’d fit right in and he’s 6’6″ and can board (6.7/36 min). Does anyone know more about Delfino? I assume he’s making more money in Russia than what the Knicks could sign him for, though, so it probably won’t happen.

  45. Italian Stallion

    I read some comments from Walsh where he said there was no rush to find a SG because he felt D’Antoni could also use Chandler at the 2 and that once Robinson was back they would be in better shape. I think Chandler played some 2 against the Nets.

  46. Italian Stallion

    I have a quick question about PER.

    Is this correct?

    PER is generally believed to overrate inefficient scorers because any scoring with a FG% over 33.3% (poor) counts favorably in the PER rating. (2 points for a basket, but only 1 point subtracted for a miss).

    If that is correct, it seems to me a stat needs to be developed that more or less credits high scoring as long as the efficiency of it is at least average because some players can’t sustain their efficiency at higher usage rates.

    Personally (not asking for a debate on it), I think inefficient high scorers tend to be overrated by many fans and sports writers (like PER), but efficient low usage players tend to be overated by others.

    I’ve been trying to develop a stat that incorporates eFG, TS%, points scored, and the player’s role on the team (SG vs. C for example) to evaluate players, but it’s way too rough to use other than for my own personal tinkering.

    Am I understanding at least one criticism of PER correctly?

  47. blackriderx

    because he felt D’Antoni

    This is what I don’t get, why does Walsh have to feel and not know. They talk, correct?

    I’ve heard of coaches and players not talking, and coaches and GMs not talking too. But I find it hard to believe.

  48. Z

    I read some comments from Walsh where he said there was no rush to find a SG because he felt D’Antoni could also use Chandler at the 2 and that once Robinson was back they would be in better shape. I think Chandler played some 2 against the Nets.

    Sure, Chandler at the 2, but Tim Thomas at the 1? Jared Jeffries at the 1? Q at the 1?

    Nate being 100% is more than 10 days away. Duhon needs a back up or he is going to join Nate/Lee/Curry/Gallo/James/et al on the injured list.

  49. Italian Stallion

    because he felt D’Antoni
    This is what I don’t get, why does Walsh have to feel and not know. They talk, correct?
    I’ve heard of coaches and players not talking, and coaches and GMs not talking too. But I find it hard to believe.

    I think you took my use of the word “felt” too literally. D’Antoni used Chandler at the 2 and both must have been satsified that they could do that from time to time. I don’t recall the exact quote, but that was the gist.

  50. caleb

    Not sure if he’s just starting a rumor with the Delfino name-drop but I found it interesting. Checked out his stats and half of his shots came from downtown (hitting 38%) so it seems like he’d fit right in and he’s 6?6? and can board (6.7/36 min). Does anyone know more about Delfino? I assume he’s making more money in Russia than what the Knicks could sign him for, though, so it probably won’t happen.

    If I recall, Delfino signed a Childress-size deal — the equivalent of $10 million in US dollars – so he aint’ coming back this year. I don’t know what Pargo signed but it’s probably not worth it for him to come either.

    Pargo is just right, though – a combo guard. Our needs are weird — right now, a backup point is more urgent, but once Nate is back, any signee probably won’t see any time at the point… SG is a longer-term hole.

    I’d love to fill the spot, too, but c’mon people – it isn’t as easy as you’d think to find someone better than Roberson at this point. We’re (rightly) not willing to give up an asset for, or give guaranteed money to, a guy who’s going to be the 3rd string PG in 2 weeks. With that constraint, we’re limited to FAs who weren’t good enough to make a 15-team roster this summer.

    We’re not signing PEJ because we don’t have a “development” slot — we’re still scouting for a guard. PEJ isn’t going to asap ahead of Lee, Harrington, Jeffries, Chandler, Q or Thomas. IMO he never will — he’s already 24 and has never even been good enough to make a roster — but long-term, I guess you never know.

    If Marbs is ever bought out you might see PEJ get a 10-day contract.

  51. jon abbey

    “he’s already 24 and has never even been good enough to make a roster”

    this is slightly unfair. he is 24, but he just finished college ball last year, and has been trying to catch on with the Knicks since the summer (after he was drafted in the second round and his rights were traded twice).

  52. Z

    “Our needs are weird — right now, a backup point is more urgent, but once Nate is back, any signee probably won’t see any time at the point… SG is a longer-term hole.”

    Isn’t the only reason Nate is considered the back up PG because we don’t have a back up PG? If we sign a PG for the rest of the season, Nate can play the 2, which he is better suited for anyway.

    Duhon really needs a backup, especially with the road trip coming up. I would think Walsh would jump on the best PG available. Perhaps he wants the roster spot to use in a trade.

    Or maybe he is insanely conservative and is willing to wait until Jan. 5th when he can give a 10-day contract out, but Duhon may be forced to take a medical retirement himself by then for fatigue…

  53. Mike K. (KnickerBlogger)

    I’d love to fill the spot, too, but c’mon people – it isn’t as easy as you’d think to find someone better than Roberson at this point. We’re (rightly) not willing to give up an asset for, or give guaranteed money to, a guy who’s going to be the 3rd string PG in 2 weeks. With that constraint, we’re limited to FAs who weren’t good enough to make a 15-team roster this summer.

    Exactly the point from my last article. The Knicks failure to deal with Marbury and/or get a quality 10th man has come back to hurt them. Wafer had back to back double digit games. Balkman has started two games in a row and has more blocks in a handful of games than any Knick not named Wilson Chandler. Balkman could help with the point guard woes due to his ability to push the ball up the floor in transition. That Roberson isn’t even playing is an indictment on the Knicks weakness with evaluating players.

  54. caleb

    I was just reading the nytimes article… Says one of the options for the knicks is getting an injuered player exception – the league would have to approve it (which seems unlikely) – but if that cane through, knicks would have a 4.5m trade exception (or to sign a FA in-season). As long as that option is out there, walsh might be thinking he can save the spot for a whole different (higher) class of options.

    Of course if marbs is let go, he doesn’t have to wait for anything.

  55. Owen

    Delfino is a very solid player. Not a highly efficient scorer, but excellent in terms of possessions due to the fact that he averaged almost as many steals as turnovers and averaged 6.7 rebounds per 36.

    Toronto is struggling this year and Calderon is catching a lot of flack. Some have suggested they made a blunder letting Ford go. But it’s not hard to see what is going on there. They have lost a lot of productivity with the loss of Delfino and Ford, who were both well above average players. Ukic and Solomon are terrible. Jermaine Oneal has been less productive than Rasho. Moon has been in the doghouse and hasn’t played as many minutes, although his productivity has been almost exactly the same. Finally, Anthony Parker has lost the plot a bit. That is a pretty change also since he played a lot of minutes last year. That all adds up to a big swing in efficiency differential despite basically no change in the net productivity of Bosh and Calderon. The rest of the team matters.

    The more I think about stats, the more crucial turnovers seem. I don’t know how to model the relationship, but there is a direct tradeoff between scoring and turnovers. The more you score, the more you commit generally. And that costs points. At some point, you would rather have a less efficient scorer who commits fewer turnovers. And as a team, you would accept a loss in scoring efficiency if you got a bigger gain from a reduction in turnovers it seems to me. That probably is pretty obvious actually. I don’t know. It just seems a player like Delfino is the kind of guy who illustrates that argument. (They have a lot of guys like that in Toronto actually.) Most of his points come from spot up shooting, which is very efficient in term of turnovers. He only committed 1.4 per 36 last year. Compare him with a player like Rudy Gay, who is currently averaging 2.8 turnovers per 36 with a ts% of 51.3%. Delfino was at 52.7% last year.

    Alright, rambling wreck of a comment, cutting it short…

  56. jon abbey

    “The more I think about stats, the more crucial turnovers seem. I don’t know how to model the relationship, but there is a direct tradeoff between scoring and turnovers. The more you score, the more you commit generally. And that costs points. At some point, you would rather have a less efficient scorer who commits fewer turnovers. And as a team, you would accept a loss in scoring efficiency if you got a bigger gain from a reduction in turnovers it seems to me.”

    FWIW, I think that turnovers as an individual stat are terribly reported, I constantly watch games, then look at the box score later and think that the turnover column isn’t even close to reality.

  57. Italian Stallion

    I was just reading the nytimes article… Says one of the options for the knicks is getting an injuered player exception – the league would have to approve it (which seems unlikely) – but if that cane through, knicks would have a 4.5m trade exception (or to sign a FA in-season). As long as that option is out there, walsh might be thinking he can save the spot for a whole different (higher) class of options.
    Of course if marbs is let go, he doesn’t have to wait for anything.

    I read an article that quoted someone with a great deal of insight into this issue that said it was extremely unlikely the Knicks would get that exception because they KNEW about his health issue before he actually signed with the team. The rule is supposedly somewhat specific about the player being part of the team. He was still technically a member of the Clippers when the Knicks found out.

  58. Italian Stallion

    Alan Hahn made a few points about the Knicks handling of Marbury in a recent chat.

    Clearly, not having the roster spot is hurting though.

    “he avoided (Walsh) spending $20M to pay Marbury to play for another NBA team and instead played chess with him to the point where we’re into December and the guy is vacationing in Mexico and Hawaii instead of helping the Miami Heat or whomever else and damaged some of the tiny bit of empathy he developed in the preseason”

    “D’Antoni showed he is in control and by exiling Marbury he immediately got control and respect of the locker room, which the previous coaches could never do. And Donnie is playing this game of chess like Bobby Fisher. Look beyong the Starberman headlines, Dino….and learn from history.”

    “I think you are absolutely right on in suggesting the system has something to do with the success of the PGs. I’ve talked about it on the blog and in the print edition several times. You can not ignore what’s happening to Nash’s stats in Phoenix this season. A lot of it is confidence, too. Duhon came in here knowing this was his team. They eliminated Marbury as a distraction, which definitely helped. If Stephon was around, Chris would have to always wonder.”

  59. Brendan

    For whatever it’s worth, and I can’t find the article, I recall reading that Delfino’s Russian team has been having severe financial/sanity issue such that they were dropping paychecks and players were briefly on strike. That may be why his name’s popping up again.

Comments are closed.