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Sunday, November 23, 2014

MLK Day Game Thread and KnicksNow Chat: Knicks vs. Nets

So it’s the final round of our little inter-borough donnybrook with the recent arrivals from Brooklyn.

The Martin Luther King Day game is a bit of a tradition here in Knick-ville, even if, ironically, one of the more memorable moments is the 2001 fight between a then-spry Marcus Camby and the Spurs’ Danny Ferry (Yes, the same cat who’s currently the Hawks’ GM. I feel old.). As is his wont, Jeff Van Gundy once again tried to step in and got straight cold-cocked. Alas, youtube doesn’t have any vidz of this seminal moment, so let’s just enjoy the far more appealing and productive violence from the last time these two teams met, when Tyson Chandler positively wrecked the MSG rims.

And, if you’d like to chat during the game with our own Robert Silverman, and read his musings throughout, like an overly-wordy, Knick-loving gnat buzzing in your cyber-ear for the next 2.5 hours, go to KnicksNow.com. There’ll be a button in the upper left hand corner and you can come join the party. Bring snacks!

206 comments on “MLK Day Game Thread and KnicksNow Chat: Knicks vs. Nets

  1. maxwell_3g

    why do nba refs call the most ridiculous techs like the nba is a 2nd grade rec league. these are grown men. they should be allowed to call eachother bad words

  2. flossy

    Copeland is really not a good player unless he’s on fire and scoring in bunches. He should honestly be headlining the garbage time all-stars, not starting for this team. The sooner his minutes go down, the better.

  3. cgreene

    I am not watching the game but it seems like we get nothing going at all towards the basket or in the paint. How many paint shots have we taken? 1?

  4. DRed

    cgreene:
    I am not watching the game but it seems like we get nothing going at all towards the basket or in the paint.How many paint shots have we taken?1?

    We’ve missed some wide open 3s. Can’t really complain about those shots.

  5. flossy

    DRed:
    We need Joe Johnson to remember that he’s not really good.

    We need to remember that Joe Johnson is good (at least, too good to be left open).

  6. cgreene

    DRed: We’ve missed some wide open 3s.Can’t really complain about those shots.

    9 3’s w 3 mins remaining in 1st q is just too many. It just is.

  7. hegotgame

    well JJ’s 3pointer from about 5 feet behind the line was kinda ridiculous though.
    And we’re def launching a lot of threes even though they are mostly open. Sometimes you gotta pump fake it and go to the rack for either an and1 or an easy assist now that ur man’s been left up in the air. It really destroys a teams defensive cohesion over the course of the game and massively benefits the offensive flow of a 3pt shooting team like ours if we sprinkle that pump n run in there sometimes.

  8. cgreene

    To me Woodson is trying too hard to keep Amare and Tyson off the floor together and has pigeon holed Stat into a bench only role. I think that’s a mistake.

  9. BigBlueAL

    flossy: Was just going to say–is Amar’e seriously the 10th man??

    Nah but looks like for today early on at least Woodson only plans on playing with 1 big on the court.

  10. flossy

    cgreene:
    To me Woodson is trying too hard to keep Amare and Tyson off the floor together and has pigeon holed Stat into a bench only role.I think that’s a mistake.

    I guess Amar’e has become our own Andray Blatche :(

  11. ruruland

    Melo really does a great job of finding Amar’e. He’s created every foul shot the Knicks have taken.

  12. flossy

    ruruland:
    Melo really does a great job of finding Amar’e. He’s created every foul shot the Knicks have taken.

    True, and Stat has great timing on his cuts behind a defense preoccupied with Melo.

  13. cgreene

    I want to see more of the Melo, STAT, Tyson frontline before it’s decided that it’s not a good fit. Like I want to see it for extended minutes.

  14. ruruland

    flossy: True, and Stat has great timing on his cuts behind a defense preoccupied with Melo.

    Yes, he always seems to figure out space and timing. He could be an even more efficient Nene with Melo on the floor, and high-screen and roll master with Melo and Chandler off.

  15. ruruland

    cgreene:
    I want to see more of the Melo, STAT, Tyson frontline before it’s decided that it’s not a good fit.Like I want to see it for extended minutes.

    Chris Copeland was giving really good minutes. It will come.

  16. DRed

    Friend of a friend went to dinner with JR and worldwide wes in London. They were drinking shirley temples.

  17. flossy

    I’m sorry but Ronnie Brewer should be made to run sprints every time he takes a jump shot before Melo/Amar’e even touch the ball during a given possession. I don’t care if he’s open–if there’s 5 seconds or more on the clock there’s time to get a better shot.

  18. cgreene

    We simply don’t have to ever have this many bad players on the floor. And we don’t have to isolate Amare as the defensive stopper rebounder.

  19. johnlocke

    Cosign he’s hot garbage right now

    flossy:
    I’m sorry but Ronnie Brewer should be made to run sprints every time he takes a jump shot before Melo/Amar’e even touch the ball during a given possession.I don’t care if he’s open–if there’s 5 seconds or more on the clock there’s time to get a better shot.

  20. hegotgame

    This is some shitty 1st half D on the whole. Luckily we’re converting turnovers. Gotta make it a lot harder to get to the paint.

  21. domiknick

    Ya something tells me a front court of Amare, Melo and Novak isn’t going to cut it defensively.

  22. BigBlueAL

    Knicks are lucky they are only down 7 right now. Nets killing them in all facets of the game. Nets turnovers is only reason Knicks arent getting blown out right now.

  23. cgreene

    This is on Woodson. Why is Amare the lone big on the floor when both Humphries and Blatche are out there? Does Woodson think Amare is Charles Oakley all of a sudden? Use frickin Kurt Thomas or something.

  24. llcoolbp

    if we aren’t going to get camby or sheed back any time soon, they need to cut white or brewer and bring in kmart. Right now we have no defense and interior presence once tyson goes out.

  25. flossy

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    My jumpshot form is better than Brewer’s. That’s a fact.

    He fell off a water slide as a kid and can’t bend his arm into the proper shooting form. I’m more displeased with his shot selection than his ugly-ass shooting form.

  26. hegotgame

    Very weird call there on STAT. Looked like they made the wrong call on Chandler then adjusted to stat cos they messed up the call. Cos on that replay chandlers taking a bow in the chest and stat is more or less standing there…

  27. johnlocke

    Im displeased with both the selection and the non-making ability. Noah is a better shooter right now with worse form

    flossy: He fell off a water slide as a kid and can’t bend his arm into the proper shooting form.I’m more displeased with his shot selection than his ugly-ass shooting form.

  28. BigBlueAL

    Thats 9 minutes of playing time Amar’e and everyone who watched him play will like to forget.

  29. BigBlueAL

    Its going to be really annoying reading everyone talking about how the Nets are going to win the division after this game if the Knicks dont wake up and somehow win this game.

  30. hegotgame

    How can we not have any offensive sets all of a sudden? Not even a simple pick and roll?? At least Melo is starting to take it to the rack. Catching fire as I write….

  31. BigBlueAL

    I still love JR but if he somehow makes the All-Star team it would be the biggest travesty in the history of sports lol.

  32. ruruland

    DRed:
    Make a fucking shot, Earl.

    A lot of these looks he’s getting he’s typically much more efficient with.

    Nets are putting a big on Melo and only helping when he drives. It’s Melo’s job to score against this kind of defensive strategy, disregard the inane ramblings of Frazier and Breen.

  33. DRed

    Only down six despite everyone but Melo not showing up on offense. I think we’ve got a solid chance to take this in the second half.

  34. d-mar

    ruruland: A lot of these looks he’s getting he’s typically much more efficient with.

    Nets are putting a big on Melo and only helping when he drives. It’s Melo’s job to score against this kind of defensive strategy, disregard the inane ramblings of Frazier and Breen.

    Agree, they’re daring him to shoot midrange shots, which he has to take (and then hear from Breen about lack of ball movement)

  35. hegotgame

    Well bright spots. Only 2 turnovers, shooting 35% and still in the game… Looked like we had a bunch of fouls but Tys has only got one and Melo’s got 2. If we can pull our normal ‘lock down in the 2nd half’ move we’ll be aii. If we have a 3rd quarter collapse though it could be deadly. This 5point lead feels bigger than it is. I’m uncomfortable. Hopeful…. but uncomfortable….

  36. ruruland

    d-mar: Agree, they’re daring him to shoot midrange shots, which he has to take (and then hear from Breen about lack of ball movement)

    it’s probably a very smart strategy because Melo was eating their double teams up….

    We’ll see how Woody adjusts.

  37. ruruland

    Nets are having a good shooting game yet only have 47 points at half. That is typically a very good sign.

  38. johnlocke

    Shot himself in the leg ain’t happening…Tyson needs to man up and play better defense on Lopez and play more aggressively. He’s having very little impact out there right now

    BigBlueAL:
    I still love JR but if he somehow makes the All-Star team it would be the biggest travesty in the history of sports lol.

  39. BigBlueAL

    For the life of me I will never understand doubling the opposing center when Chandler is covering him.

  40. BigBlueAL

    johnlocke:
    You watch the 1st half?

    Lopez scored on wide open jumpers off PnR’s. When did he actually just post up Chandler and score?? Both times they doubled it lead to a wide open Nets 3pter.

    If you have the reigning defensive player of the year on your team you should never have to double team the guy he is covering period.

  41. johnlocke

    Chandler has not been playing like DPOY and brook scores well against him, several of those jumpers were where Chandler just watched him shoot. I’m more comfortable with doubling him than Joe Johnson but it needs to be doubles off the dribble.

    BigBlueAL: Lopez scored on wide open jumpers off PnR’s.When did he actually just post up Chandler and score??Both times they doubled it lead to a wide open Nets 3pter.

    If you have the reigning defensive player of the year on your team you should never have to double team the guy he is covering period.

  42. BigBlueAL

    I am genuinely scared whenever JR has the ball on offense now and is dribbling trying to decide what to do lol.

  43. Douglas

    BigBlueAL:
    I am genuinely scared whenever JR has the ball on offense now and is dribbling trying to decide what to do lol.

    You mean you weren’t white-knuckled cross your fingers before? hehe

  44. Aharon

    LOVED the pick with Chandler in the high post, drive by Melo and dish to Stat on the baseline. Awesome!

  45. BigBlueAL

    Douglas: You mean you weren’t white-knuckled cross your fingers before? hehe

    Heh, well it happened alot less before with Felton playing so it wasnt as bad lol.

  46. maxwell_3g

    crap. i fell asleep on the couch at some point during half time. apparently things have gone well in my absence

  47. flossy

    BigBlueAL:
    I am genuinely scared whenever JR has the ball on offense now and is dribbling trying to decide what to do lol.

    That turnaround fadeaway from the foul line with 20 seconds on the shot clock and most of the Knicks still in the backcourt was… something else.

  48. d-mar

    If the Knicks extend this lead the Nets are gonna start believing that the Knicks just own them in the 2nd half

  49. ruruland

    flossy: That was pure sex

    This was the kind of play I never got to actually posting about but can be seen all over Stat’s Synergy clips and stats prior to coming to NY.

  50. BigBlueAL

    DRed:
    anyone see what happened to prigs?Breen said he looked shaken up, but I didn’t see him get hurt

    Hurt his ankle/foot on a Humphries screen at the end of 3rd quarter is what I read on Twitter.

  51. BigBlueAL

    As ruru has noted many times, JR really is alot better when he plays off the ball and can just shoot or quickly attack off the dribble on the catch.

  52. maxwell_3g

    DRed:
    anyone see what happened to prigs?Breen said he looked shaken up, but I didn’t see him get hurt

    he got shaken up running into a humphries screen when he was pressuring the ball full court. he got blindsidedby it but did not fall down

  53. DRed

    BigBlueAL: Hurt his ankle/foot on a Humphries screen at the end of 3rd quarter is what I read on Twitter.

    The last thing we need is to lose another PG.

    I forgot about Camby throwing that haymaker on MLK day. Poor JVG always got the worst of the brawls.

  54. BigBlueAL

    Will the Thrill:
    Our perimeter D is horrrrrrible.

    Anybody can just dribble right by them which with the way the Knicks play D means the entire team then runs at the dribbler leaving open 3pt shooters left and right.

  55. AnonymousODG

    Novak is becoming a real liability on the defense. Not breaking news I know, but it seems like the Woodson is just ignoring it and I don’t know why he would since he’s so defensive-minded.

  56. Brian Cronin

    Wow, the Knicks are lucky that the Nets are looking like clowns on offense the last two minutes. The Nets are leaving the door wide open. Let’s just hope that the Knicks accept the invitation.

  57. johnlocke

    They stopped going to Lopez. They should post him up

    Brian Cronin:
    Wow, the Knicks are lucky that the Nets are looking like clowns on offense the last two minutes.

  58. d-mar

    Why does Melo get the touch fouls 20 feet from the basket but never gets calls when he takes it to the hoop?

  59. Brian Cronin

    Wow, I can’t believe how terrible the Nets are playing on offense. They haven’t scored in nearly five minutes! This is awesome. The Knicks would be so fucked if the Nets weren’t just playing completely ineptly (missed layups, balls bouncing off guy’s hands, etc.).

  60. johnlocke

    Woody let’s get that three pick n roll up top with Melo amare and Tyson with Kidd and smith on the wings. Thanks

  61. yellowboy90

    There is no other guys unless you move Melo to the for and Bring Brewer in. I would like his size on Johnson.

  62. Brian Cronin

    Ball game. There is no way that the Nets won’t be doing something moronic here. It is just like the game in Brooklyn. The Nets get tight when the game is close. They play like morons. This is all the Knicks.

  63. ruruland

    Brian Cronin:
    Humphries was playing Melo so well, so thanks for putting Johnson on him, Nets!

    Humpries was playing off and using length to contest. Nets help defense behind their ball defense has been great. Every time Melo gets by his defender there’s 1-2 at the rim.

  64. johnlocke

    Wrong?

    Brian Cronin:
    Ball game. There is no way that the Nets won’t be doing something moronic here. It is just like the game in Brooklyn. The Nets get tight when the game is close. They play like morons. This is all the Knicks.

  65. BigBlueAL

    Knicks played very good D on that possession though, they doubled Lopez and actually rotated very well not leaving an open shot.

  66. ruruland

    Johnson’s been great today. He makes big shots when the offense gets bogged down. He’s better than his numbers.

  67. AnonymousODG

    AnonymousODG:
    Only 1 team foul I believe, Woodson and the Knicks better remember that and use em smartly.

    And of course Smith didn’t foul him there before he pulled up which would have left the Nets only 5 seconds on the shot clock and in a sticky situation. smh

  68. SSS

    I was wondering who would get to take the low percentage pull-up jumper Melo or JR. Turns out it was Melo.

  69. flossy

    Terrible play, awful shot by Melo. Nets go scoreless for 5 minutes and the Knicks can’t close this game out at home? Not a good look.

  70. ruruland

    SSS:
    I was wondering whoa would get to take the low percentage pull-up jumper Melo or JR.Turns out it was Melo.

    Yeah, should have gotten dunk and 1 there or the wide open 3. Selfish

  71. Brian Cronin

    And of course Smith didn’t foul him there before he pulled up which would have left the Nets only 5 seconds on the shot clock and in a sticky situation. smh

    Yeah, weird decision. Like I said, this has been Smith’s worst game on both ends. The Nets really SHOULD foul them here.

  72. johnlocke

    Just caught the strategy in the huddle they will

    Brian Cronin: Yeah, weird decision. Like I said, this has been Smith’s worst game on both ends. The Nets really SHOULD foul them here.

  73. maxwell_3g

    flossy:
    Terrible play, awful shot by Melo.Nets go scoreless for 5 minutes and the Knicks can’t close this game out at home?Not a good look.

    it wasnt a bad look for melo. he just missed it

  74. SSS

    ruruland: Yeah, should have gotten dunk and 1 there or the wide open 3. Selfish

    Not necessarily blaming him, blaming the fact that we immediately went to an isolation like we always do in these situations, which inevitably ends up in a long, contested jump shot (though this one wasn’t nearly as long – or nearly as close). Just because JR hit two earlier this season certainly didn’t make them good looks.

  75. BigBlueAL

    Nets now tied with Knicks in win column, Pacers with 1 more win than the Knicks. Knicks with 2 less losses though but still not as fun looking at the standings.

  76. maxwell_3g

    bad loss. when you look st personnel, we shpuld be better than this team. we have the best player and equal supporting casts. maybe felton makes a difference.

  77. Brian Cronin

    I don’t get why you foul them with 11 seconds left but not with 5 seconds. Odd strategy.

    Anyhow, I obviously did not think that would happen, but I guess occasionally the Knicks will blow a close one. Wish it was against a different team, though. ;)

  78. Brian Cronin

    As for why the Knicks go isolation at the end, every team goes isolation at the end of the game down one. Every team. The Nets did and they got a bucket. The Knicks did and they didn’t get a bucket. C’est la vie.

  79. ruruland

    BigBlueAL:
    Well get ready for talk of the Nets being the best team in NY again.

    Who cares? All that matters is which team goes further in the post-season.

  80. flossy

    Well, that sucked. We need Felton back badly. Kidd’s too old to play PG and Melo can’t run the offense and score efficiently for 45 minutes. Nets tried really hard to give this game away but the Knicks wouldn’t have it.

  81. hegotgame

    That one really hurt. Damn. If we lose to Boston on thursd I will be in a horrible mood all wknd. Melo’s airball was just brutal. Absolutely brutal. sigh.

  82. SSS

    Brian Cronin: As for why the Knicks go isolation at the end, every team goes isolation at the end of the game down one. Every team. The Nets did and they got a bucket. The Knicks did and they didn’t get a bucket. C’est la vie.

    Is this true (I ask seriously)? Sure feels like I see teams go pick and roll or run plays off screens a fair amount.

    Second question – just because they all do it, does it make sense? The Nets made their shot, but it wasn’t a high or even medium percentage shot either.

  83. d-mar

    DPOY -0 blocks, Lopez – 4 blocks (2 huge ones late in the game)

    Lopez should be pissed if Chandler goes to the All Star game

  84. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    Wow. This exchange on MSG is amazing. Trautwig is taking it to Hahn for not buying into the “rivalry” narrative.

  85. yellowboy90

    I would have liked to see Melo and Amare/Chandler on a PnR to close the game. I know its opportunity for a trap but in that case good passing could get a wide open shot.

  86. Brian Cronin

    Is this true (I ask seriously)? Sure feels like I see teams go pick and roll or run plays off screens a fair amount.

    Second question – just because they all do it, does it make sense? The Nets made their shot, but it wasn’t a high or even medium percentage shot either.

    Obviously not 100% of the time, but close to it. The issue is that teams don’t like risking anything fancy at the end of the game when an errant pass could end the game (or the aforementioned trap on the pick and roll). Isolation is the safest, as far as controlling the ball, as the other team can either choose to double (in which case you pass to an open man) or give you the shot one-on-one, in which case you hope that your man is good enough to beat the other guy one-on-one.

  87. yellowboy90

    I know Woody is not Holding back plays on O but he really only goes to more motion plays only when the knicks get really down. There needs to be more cuts and back screens off Melo’s posting and Amar’e when he posts up.

    I still see some positives that Felton can easily fix. Hopefully he is in good condition. The Knicks are still one of few teams that can take their D and O to levels most teams can’t.

    By the way why keep White if he doesn’t play. Pick up a Martin or try to get Henderson from Charlotte.

  88. nicos

    Too many missed opportunities- Missed free throws by Chandler, Stat, and Kidd in the fourth- those blocks on Stat and Melo. A little surprised they switched out Stat for Novak on that late possession down one- you know you’re going iso-Melo so why not have Amar’e in to cut off of any rotation on Melo’s penetration? Novak’s floor spacing isn’t really going to help because the Nets were going to be rotating a big to help on Melo- not Novak’s man.

  89. AnonymousODG

    The Honorable Cock Jowles:
    Wow. This exchange on MSG is amazing. Trautwig is taking it to Hahn for not buying into the “rivalry” narrative.

    I liked the entire postgame conversation. Distracted me from the sting of that loss and how in the past 5 games we’ve lost to 4 of the top 5 Eastern Conference teams.

    Not looking forward to Thursday. Everybody’s reporting that Doc Rivers lit a fire under his team’s butt. Ya’ll just know Pierce, Garnett, Rondo and Bradley are itchin to make a statement game at our expense.

  90. nicos

    Also- This is Melo’s fifth game of over 40 minutes (3 45+!) game since Felton went down. Kidd was great today but his inability to run the PNR forces everything to run through Melo and that can’t continue without completely wearing Melo out long before the playoffs.

  91. ruruland

    The Knicks — same with every team in the NBA and most of the best teams — simply aren’t going to beat a quality team (top 10) when they give up 6 more 3-point shots on the same amount of attempts.

    Knicks outscored the Nets in the paint.

    Knicks missed a lot of quality 3-point shots, and the Nets made theirs. Among top teams, that’s frequently where the game is decided.

  92. Juany8

    On a positive note, the Knicks are still only 2 games behind the Heat in the standings. The Knicks are missing their third most important player right now, and they are losing close games to solid opposition. This isn’t the end of the world, let’s evaluate everything when Felton comes back a few games.

  93. jon abbey

    with Felton/Sheed/Camby out, Brewer contributing nothing, and Novak taken out of the game entirely more often than not, we are a thin team. we really need another big man, whether it’s Camby, Sheed, Kenyon Martin, or someone else.

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