But being paid is not, for Marbury, about maximizing his long-term financial prospects. It’s about getting what he feels that he earned; it’s about respect. To his mind, he earned the money, he earned communication from his coach, and he earned a starting position with no strings. Why should he accept anything else?

I’m not defending him. I think he’s a complete asshole. But I also think his motivations are pretty clear here, and it’s not reasonable, from his point of view, to accept a discounted buyout. I wonder if he’ll stay inactive for the year and then walk away from basketball altogether.

Sometimes it’s tedious to have a conversation with you. You just like to argue. Seriously, I may have to refrain because I don’t have the time for this.

1. Teams don’t cut players that have value around the league. They try to trade them, negotiate a buyout, etc… If the player is useless, then they cut them. It would be foolish to cut Marbury.

2. Yes Ted, they had this big meeting and just stared at each other like a bunch of idiots and didn’t discuss the various options for dealing with their mutual problems/interests.

3. There may be many players that will eventually prove valuable that could have taken Marbury’s roster spot, but they are theoretical. If there actually was a player Walsh/D’Antoni wanted him right now, I am sure it would impact the thinking. As I said, Walsh is not an idiot. We already know the spot is probably eventually going to PEJ. That means Walsh has looked at the universe of players and thinks PEJ is the best player available for these Knicks right now (correctly or not). The opportunity cost of waiting for PEJ is meaningless. The reputation cost is probably less than zero because everyone understands the business aspects of this. If Walsh actually gave Marbury his full salary in a buyout the rest of the owners would come to NY and shoot him for stupidity. That would hurt his reputation a lot more. LOL

That’s because their biggest free agent signing EVER was Cuttino Mobley.

Last point. LA is a major media market, but for some reason the Clippers are never mentioned as a major free agent destination…

To add to that… Walsh has publically said he’s never bought anyone out in his life and implied he would really rather never buyout anyone for the remainder of his life, is it unreasonable to think he’s playing hard ball? Dolan also choose not to pay Isiah his money when his job was taken from him, is it unreasonable to think he’d take the same stance with Marbury?

What discount rate do you apply with interest rates close to zero and risk in the market as high as ever? I know Marbury doesn’t have an agent, but I assume he has financial advisors. There’s deflationary pressure and a looming global recession… if Marbury takes all his money today and invests it he’s probably as likely to have less money at the end of the season as more. I doubt he’s getting signed for more than the veterans’ minimum, if at all. The Knicks aren’t in a position to ask him to take much less money than he’s owed. Whether he knows that or not, I don’t know.

It’s called getting cut. If you don’t want someone on your team but they have no interest in leaving you cut them, you do not buy them out. Why Marbury still wants to be on the Knicks, I don’t know. I suppose it’s stubborness. I would also take the buyout and get on with it if I were him and a buyout has in fact been offered, but he’s free to decide what’s in his own best interest.

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“Walsh, Marbury, and a union rep have met, so something has been discussed.”

It’s fair to assume that they didn’t all just stare at one another… Until Walsh says there’s a buyout on the table I don’t think you can say with 100% certainty. Maybe he did say there’s a buyout on the table and I missed it.

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“When you can come up with a player that the Knicks aren’t signing now because Marbury is on the team, we can discuss the opportunity cost. Until you can come up with an actual opportunity cost, you are just taking a theoretical contrian position. In addition, you assume that if there was an actual opportunity cost that Walsh wouldn’t consider it. IMO, if there was a player available right now that the Knicks were hot for, Walsh would change his thinking.”

Renaldo Balkman, Bobby Brown, Anthony Morrow, DeMarcus Nelson, the D-League and some guys playing abroad (see my earlier Bruce Bowen, Darrell Armstrong comments). Your stated position is that Walshtoni decided long ago that Starbury was not in their plans; therefore, they should have approached him about a buyout while other teams still had their MLEs to offer and the dollar was weak (since he may go to Italy, apparently). D’Antoni might have even pulled some strings to get him a nice setup with Benetton or something. If you know you’re going to buy someone out eventually don’t you do it when you can get the biggest discount? You can’t have it both ways: either they didn’t decide long ago to collude against Marbury or there’s a tanglible opportunity cost.

As I’ve said, Walsh does not pay the bills and would have to consult a certain wannabe rock-star before cutting Marbury. He has all say over personnel decisions, but I have a feeling that Walsh isn’t allowed to cut a $20 million check of Dolan’s money.

The other opportunity cost–the bigger one in my opinion–is the difference in the Knicks reputation with Marbury vs. without him. Walshtoni may come out of this looking brilliant for the way they handled Marbury, but one misstep or just a continued media circus could be bad for the Knicks’ already hurting rep. That could cost the Knicks LeBron James. It’s going to be almost impossible to say unless he comes out and publically says that I didn’t sign with NYK because of the way they treated Marbury (or is publically seen with Jay-Z and Starbury before or after signing with the Nets), but the guy as much as said his favorite borough is Brooklyn and his best buddy seems to be Jay-Z… (With Marbury speculating he might buy the Knicks one day, maybe he just takes a share of his soon to be hometown team from cash strapped Bruce Ratner, don’t know if that helps or hurts the Nets’ chances of signing LeBron).

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“I see nothing unreasonable about the Knicks position.”

Without having heard the Knicks position from Dolan or Walsh, I have a hard time saying whether or not it’s reasonable.

When you can come up with a player that the Knicks aren’t signing now because Marbury is on the team, we can discuss the opportunity cost. Until you can come up with an actual opportunity cost, you are just taking a theoretical contrian position. In addition, you assume that if there was an actual opportunity cost that Walsh wouldn’t consider it. IMO, if there was a player available right now that the Knicks were hot for, Walsh would change his thinking. He’s not an idiot. As of right now, it appears that as soon as Marbury is finally gone, PEJ is on the team. So there is basically no cost unless you think waiting on PEJ is big issue.

To me, this buyout is stuff is so basic I don’t even know why we need to discuss it.

1. Both sides have every right to negotiate the best possible deal.

3. The mathematically fair buyout is for the team to give the player the present value of his contract minus the amount he gets from a new team. That way the player gets exactly what he is owed and the team saves the present value of the services it is giving up.

3. Sometimes there are personal considerations that go beyond the fair values that might make a player take less (wanting to win a title, play in a specific city etc….) but I have never heard of a player getting bought out and making more money. That kind of thing would turn common sense on its head.

4. By initially insisting on getting every penny he is owed from the Knicks, Marbury was asking for more money than he is contracted for because he will be able to sign for something with someone. To me, he’s entitled to ask for whatever he wants, but it’s such a idiotic position that it can’t be taken seriously and the Knicks can’t be criticized for saying no or ignoring it. Every team in the league would say no to that.

5. It is Marbury that chooses to work without an agent that could facilitate negotiations with another team and explain the mathematics of buyouts and typical fair standards in these deals to him to maximize his value etc….

6. Walsh, Marbury, and a union rep have met, so something has been discussed.

I see nothing unreasonable about the Knicks position. If they offered him less than the present value of his contract or otherwise refused to talk to him, they would be wrong. However, they have talked and he was even privately advised by the coach to begin negotiations with other teams so both sides could move on.

I simply have no problem with the Knicks position and think if Marbury was an informed person behaving like a professional that wants to move with his career, this would have been over a few weeks ago.

Even is there is some opportunity cost for keeping Marbury around (and I see zero evidence that it is signficant if it exists at all), buying him out was never really an easy option. It was Marbury that stated he wanted every penny he was owed even before serious consideration or discussions with Walsh were started. When you start from an unreasonable (or ignorant) position, have no agent, are not negotiating with other teams as advised by your own coach, etc… nothing is going to get done even when your employer is willing to be very reasonable. That’s the part that some people are missing. AT no point in time has the organization said or offered him anything unreasonable.

There’s an opportunity cost to every decision. In this case it will be hard to tell what it is for a few seasons.

I’ve seen no evidence that his employer is reasonable in any sense, let alone very reasonable. His employer is James Dolan. The only Knicks employee I’ve heard say Marbury could be bought out is the coach, and he mentioned it as his personal advice. Donnie Walsh stated he doesn’t buy players out and Dolan hasn’t said a word publically as far as I know but refused to pay his other buddy Isiah not to work for the Knicks. I don’t know why you make the assumption that the Knicks are being the good guys in this situation and offering Marbury a reasonable deal unless you’ve seent he deal on the table yourself. I think you’re jumping to huge conclusions and putting a lot of faith in an organization that has done nothing to deserve it. Donnie Walsh is the President of Basketball Operations, he doesn’t write the checks.

Marbury has every right to demand his money. Other players don’t take less money out of the goodness of their hearts, it’s in their economic and/or personal interest to do so: time value of money + signing another contract and/or getting paid millions to go home with their family instead of getting paid more millions to not play for a team that doesn’t want them. Marbury has to understand that by demanding every cent he’s putting himself in a position to ride the bench all season. Judging from his public statements that he’s getting ready for next season, I think he does.

This opens the door a bit to swapping Camby for Mobley. Or we may get Zach back . . .