I just can’t agree with your assertion that David Lee is not an NBA starter. That is a really ridiculous statement to me. If anything I would say he’s a lot better on a team where he’s not the best player: he moves well off the ball and has always scored efficiently before becoming a featured scorer, plus he’s a beast on the boards.
We very well might get to see what he can do somewhere else next season…

“Plenty of flawed players have played in the AS games.”

How many guys have played in an All-Star game who were not NBA starters? (At least in their prime years even if they got a ridiculous AI type of legacy vote-in.) I didn’t agree with Mo Williams being an All-Star, but he’s a solid starting PG if you’re looking for a bit of a scoring point who is not a great playmaker. Similar to Mike Bibby, I would say: http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=1&p1=willima01&y1=2010&p2=bibbymi01&y2=2010
I also didn’t agree with Rose making the All-Star game this season… not that he’s not talented enough, but that his production wasn’t there for the whole season up till that point. However, a friend pointed out to me that there just aren’t many very good PGs in the East. Williams also benefit from that, as did Jameer Nelson.

“What have you done for me lately? His drafting with the Knicks has been questionable, and his signings–Duhon– have as well. I guess we don’t have to worry about his drafting since we don’t have any picks anyway! But I don’t see any particular reason to think he’s not going to overpay somebody mediocre this summer.”

Lately he’s been trying to get under the cap for 2010, and he’s done it. The only draft pick I would deem questionable is Hill. And even Hill has plenty of promise (a chance to be a solid NBA bigman, not huge upside). Gallo has at least one bigtime skill, and shows plenty of promise. A solid pick, I would say. Walsh couldn’t know his back would give out after a collision with a 450 lb man his rookie summer league. Douglas looks like a solid very late first round pick. There was definitely one better player on the board and probably a couple others, but that doesn’t make it a bad pick just not a great one. At that point in the draft your odds are like 50/50. Douglas at least looks better than Mardy Collins.

Who knows what he’ll do this offseason, I think his track record of decades of success in the NBA is very relevant though. He’s the guy who called Tyreke Evans the 2nd best player in the draft behind Griffin. Started talking about Westbrook when everyone else thought he was a late lottery pick (besides Presti, obviously). Traded Dale Davis just before his decline for Jermaine O’Neal just before his ascent. Traded an overrated/overpaid Jalen Rose for young Artest and Brad Miller. Drafted the likes of Reggie Miller, Dale Davis, Antonio Davis (2nd round), Al Harrington (24th)… He’s not perfect and has made mistakes, but on the whole he’s made a lot of good calls and won a lot of games.

The one thing about his history that does concern me is who he chooses to entrust with power… He hired Isiah as a coach and let him apparently push to draft Fred Jones, and he left Larry “white power” Bird to kill the Pacers by going after every white American guy in the NBA. D’Antoni seems to be more of the same. Every time I hear about D’Antoni thinking someone will fit so well in his system I just role my eyes. I don’t consider Duhon a terrible signing, but given what was known there was no reason to think he’d fit this system. Tyrus Thomas, Eddie House, Sergio, T-Mac…

Good point in 50.

“Although before the Gasol trade, Pau was soft and just a good center on a really bad team; Bynum was injury prone; Odom wasn’t good enough; and Artest was a liability wherever he was.”

You have a god point about perceptions. These were all popular views, but largely stretches. The Lakers already had, I believe, the best record in the NBA that season before Pau arrived (maybe not right when he got there, but shortly before hand I remember them having it). Bynum went down, which might have hurt them had Pau not arrived. They were already a really good team though. It was a great trade, but you’re right that this trade and the ring only brought to light people’s misconceptions.

Gasol was the best player on a Memphis team that won 50, 45, and 49 games over a 3 year span. They were the 2nd best defense in the NBA in 05-06 and the 5th best defense in 04-05. The media just called him soft because he’s from Europe.

Bynum is still only 22. He was in his 20 yr old season when Pau arrived.

Odom has largely been the same player since he left the Clippers. His rebounding and scoring efficiency have fluctuated, but overall he hasn’t been any better since the Pau trade.

Artest is definitely a liability, but he’s held it together long enough in previous seasons to win DPOY and 60 games. He still hasn’t won a ring, and if the Cavs beat the Lakers in the finals I’m sure he’ll be “the reason why” according to the media.

“I want to remind everyone that in 93-94, the Bulls won 55 games. That’s 2 games less than 92-93 with Jordan. The freaking GOAT added only 2 wins, but obviously, Lebron adds about 30….

MJ and Lebron are difference makers, but they don’t reach 65+ wins if they don’t have a supporting cast that can get around 50. That’s why it is so important for NY to have spaces for 2 max FA; Lebron alone won’t get us farther than the 2nd round of the playoffs.”

Very good points.

d-mar,

“they’re all made into much better players with better stats because LeBron is on the court.”

This is just not true. Shaq’s stats are down this season. Williams had a similar season his last season in Milwaukee. Moon, Parker, Powe, etc., etc.

“without LeBron, who exactly would be their go-to guy? Shaq? Jamison?”

Shaq, Jamison, and Mo Williams isn’t a bad trifecta (Jamison is brand new, of course… sort of like moving Z’s talent to another position, though). They have some useful role players offensively in Parker and Gibson (spot-up shooters) and Varajao (low volume but decently efficient). Moon too to a lesser extent. Hickson is producing. They are the #3 offense with LeBron, without him I don’t think they’d be much worse than league average. It also depends if in this mock situation you just take away LeBron or give them a league average wing player in his stead.

[“it feels like we haven’t had a legit NBA starter on the team in four years.”

Yeah, that All-Star on the team is not an NBA starter… they’re a bad team, but that’s ridiculous. Zach Randolph was also an All-Star this season and started for the Knicks within the past 4 years.]

I did say it was hyperbole and used the word ‘feels’. Zach Randolph is clearly a legit NBA starter. ‘Starter’ to me by the way is someone who would start on a competitive team. Plenty of scrubs get to start on bad teams.

[“I don’t think either guy is more than a role player on a championship team.”

There’s a huge difference between being one of the best players on a championship team and an NBA starter. 2, 3, or 4 of the starters on a championship team are usually role players themselves.]

I guess the point is Lee and Nate are not pieces you build around and as far as Lee’s All-Star bid goes, BFD. Plenty of flawed players have played in the AS games. Mo freaking Williams? Sorry, he’s not an All-Star on any other team, and Lee’s not an All-Star on a team where he’s not the best player.

[“I’m more concerned about Walsh’s (and the organization as a whole) ability to identify talent. Sure, we have a lot of room to maneuver now, but these guys have not shown to me they can pick the winners from the losers out of the crowd.”

Yeah, 20 years of playoff teams in Indiana… a strong draft record… re-building on the fly without missing the playoffs… respected around the league… Plenty of reasons to question Donnie Walsh. You might need to actually look at Donnie Walsh’s resume before questioning him and praising D’Antoni after a few playoff trips with an uber-talented team that fit his coaching style beautifully.]

What have you done for me lately? His drafting with the Knicks has been questionable, and his signings–Duhon– have as well. I guess we don’t have to worry about his drafting since we don’t have any picks anyway! But I don’t see any particular reason to think he’s not going to overpay somebody mediocre this summer.

Where did I praise D’Antoni? I think he’s been terrible, and it’s clear his coaching style is to have players that are good and make good decisions and get out of the way. He’s a disaster for a young/rebuilding team.

When I said a 50 win team; i am supposing something like Lebron is injured till playoffs, and they try to do their best without him. Not Cavs in rebuilding mode (’99 Bulls also sucked)

I want to remind everyone that in 93-94, the Bulls won 55 games. That’s 2 games less than 92-93 with Jordan. The freaking GOAT added only 2 wins, but obviously, Lebron adds about 30….

MJ and Lebron are difference makers, but they don’t reach 65+ wins if they don’t have a supporting cast that can get around 50. That’s why it is so important for NY to have spaces for 2 max FA; Lebron alone won’t get us farther than the 2nd round of the playoffs.

50 wins? I would say they’re a bubble team for the playoffs at best. Before we get carried away praising the Cavs supporting cast, let’s not forget the obvious – they’re all made into much better players with better stats because LeBron is on the court. I understand they’re playing defense at a high level, but without LeBron, who exactly would be their go-to guy? Shaq? Jamison? How many open shots do Mo Williams and Gibson get? They’d probably be about as good as the Bucks I would say, which is not that bad but not 50 wins either.

And I’d say that Lakers without Kobe are about a 55 win team. Although before the Gasol trade, Pau was soft and just a good center on a really bad team; Bynum was injury prone; Odom wasn’t good enough; and Artest was a liability wherever he was.

I think the fact that someone has won, or hasn’t won a ring changes a lot the perception one has. So if Lebron stays in Cleveland and wins 3 rings, we will talk about how good Varejao is. If Lebron leaves and Cleveland is 50 win team, no one will care about Varejao (the same way no one cared about Odom when he was in Miami)