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	<title>Comments on: LeBron Agonistes</title>
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		<title>By: budfox07</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331394</link>
		<dc:creator>budfox07</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 17:30:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331394</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[LeBron is just the modern day Dominique Wilkins. That is to say he is great athlete with superior size and speed who has no winner gene inside in.  He&#039;ll dunk and look great during the regular season but when it counts, when it really counts, he&#039;ll just disappear. His game isn&#039;t made for New York where they value winning above all else.
http://dummybros.blogspot.com/]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LeBron is just the modern day Dominique Wilkins. That is to say he is great athlete with superior size and speed who has no winner gene inside in.  He&#8217;ll dunk and look great during the regular season but when it counts, when it really counts, he&#8217;ll just disappear. His game isn&#8217;t made for New York where they value winning above all else.<br />
<a href="http://dummybros.blogspot.com/" rel="nofollow">http://dummybros.blogspot.com/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Nick C.</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331383</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick C.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 10:37:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331383</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think we saw LeBron&#039;s post game ... it consited of elbowing/barreling into the defender.  Here it got whistled as the offensive foul that it is and, if it was an honest look of disbelief or not understanding, rather than just a standard look many guys make when they get whistled, perhaps he just was able to get away with such a game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we saw LeBron&#8217;s post game &#8230; it consited of elbowing/barreling into the defender.  Here it got whistled as the offensive foul that it is and, if it was an honest look of disbelief or not understanding, rather than just a standard look many guys make when they get whistled, perhaps he just was able to get away with such a game.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331379</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 04:47:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331379</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-331369&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-331369&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;JK&#052;&#055;&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: 
Asking LeBron to become a Karl Malone-style post-up player is a bit like asking Jimi Hendrix to play bass.


&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Hendrix often recorded the bass parts for his albums, actually.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-331369">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-331369" rel="nofollow">JK&#052;&#055;</a></strong>:<br />
Asking LeBron to become a Karl Malone-style post-up player is a bit like asking Jimi Hendrix to play bass.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Hendrix often recorded the bass parts for his albums, actually.</p>
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		<title>By: Z-man</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331374</link>
		<dc:creator>Z-man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 01:22:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331374</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Michael Jordan would have been happy to take jumpers if they were given to him, especially later in his career when he became a deadly mid-range shooter.  He also made many dagger 3-pointers in the finals when people laid off him.  He actually became much more of a jump shooter later in his career and was never really a post player.  

A post game would help, but LeBron passed up many perimeter shots that good post players like KG and Pierce would take in a heartbeat.  He had the same game when he averaged 30ppg four years ago and almost single-handedly brought his team to the finals a couple of years back.  The problem with LeBron in these finals was between the ears, much more than with any holes in his game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael Jordan would have been happy to take jumpers if they were given to him, especially later in his career when he became a deadly mid-range shooter.  He also made many dagger 3-pointers in the finals when people laid off him.  He actually became much more of a jump shooter later in his career and was never really a post player.  </p>
<p>A post game would help, but LeBron passed up many perimeter shots that good post players like KG and Pierce would take in a heartbeat.  He had the same game when he averaged 30ppg four years ago and almost single-handedly brought his team to the finals a couple of years back.  The problem with LeBron in these finals was between the ears, much more than with any holes in his game.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Cavan</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331371</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Cavan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2011 00:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331371</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@83 &amp; 84

Not sure I totally agree. If that&#039;s the case, then what do we call MJ developing a potent post game? Obviously he was a few years older at the time and it was done more out of necessity / dwindling athleticism than anything else. But there were times in that series where LeBron had Kidd, Barea and / or Terry on him, and he either a) played hot-potato, b) tried to drive with varying degrees of success, or c) settled for the outside jumper. Saying he should &quot;develop a post game&quot; is not the same thing as saying he should somehow &quot;become&quot; Karl Malone. Nor does it mean he needs to have McHale or Olajuwan-esque skillz. It simply means he should recognize that a) he&#039;s liable to be an inch or two taller than any perimeter player guarding him, b) significantly stronger than said player, and c) able to jump higher than said player. A baby hook and a turnaround J -- that&#039;s it. He develops those two things, it&#039;s a total game-changer. Unfortunately, I&#039;m not sure he really cares at this point.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@83 &amp; 84</p>
<p>Not sure I totally agree. If that&#8217;s the case, then what do we call MJ developing a potent post game? Obviously he was a few years older at the time and it was done more out of necessity / dwindling athleticism than anything else. But there were times in that series where LeBron had Kidd, Barea and / or Terry on him, and he either a) played hot-potato, b) tried to drive with varying degrees of success, or c) settled for the outside jumper. Saying he should &#8220;develop a post game&#8221; is not the same thing as saying he should somehow &#8220;become&#8221; Karl Malone. Nor does it mean he needs to have McHale or Olajuwan-esque skillz. It simply means he should recognize that a) he&#8217;s liable to be an inch or two taller than any perimeter player guarding him, b) significantly stronger than said player, and c) able to jump higher than said player. A baby hook and a turnaround J &#8212; that&#8217;s it. He develops those two things, it&#8217;s a total game-changer. Unfortunately, I&#8217;m not sure he really cares at this point.</p>
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		<title>By: Z-man</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331370</link>
		<dc:creator>Z-man</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 23:47:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331370</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Yeah, LeBron&#039;s problem isn&#039;t an inability to post up. I agree with Ted in @78 in that the Mavs were just the better team.  They didn&#039;t exactly luck into the finals.  You could actually argue that the Lakers and the Thunder could have possibly beaten the Heat.  The Heat, on the other hand, beat a depleted and aging Celtic team and an inexperienced and flawed Bulls team.  I had predicted the Mavs in 7 before the series here because of the way each of the teams got to the finals.  The Mavs are a very good, very balanced, very well-coached team, with a lot of weapons and a lot of ways to beat you...slow down, up-tempo, etc.  They have an all-time great in the latter part of his prime, an all-time great in his twilight years, a 4-time all star on the way down, a top 10 (maybe top 5) center, a 6th man of the year candidate, an X-factor-type PG, and some decent role players, stability and a talented, experienced coach.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, LeBron&#8217;s problem isn&#8217;t an inability to post up. I agree with Ted in @78 in that the Mavs were just the better team.  They didn&#8217;t exactly luck into the finals.  You could actually argue that the Lakers and the Thunder could have possibly beaten the Heat.  The Heat, on the other hand, beat a depleted and aging Celtic team and an inexperienced and flawed Bulls team.  I had predicted the Mavs in 7 before the series here because of the way each of the teams got to the finals.  The Mavs are a very good, very balanced, very well-coached team, with a lot of weapons and a lot of ways to beat you&#8230;slow down, up-tempo, etc.  They have an all-time great in the latter part of his prime, an all-time great in his twilight years, a 4-time all star on the way down, a top 10 (maybe top 5) center, a 6th man of the year candidate, an X-factor-type PG, and some decent role players, stability and a talented, experienced coach.</p>
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		<title>By: JK47</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331369</link>
		<dc:creator>JK47</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331369</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Asking LeBron to become a Karl Malone-style post-up player is a bit like asking Jimi Hendrix to play bass.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Asking LeBron to become a Karl Malone-style post-up player is a bit like asking Jimi Hendrix to play bass.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Nelson</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331368</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331368</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-331367&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-331367&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frank&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: my point wasn’t actually that this particular study was so awesome – just that league-wide studies that show no obvious “clutch” or “hot hand” importance don’t necessarily mean that such things don’t exist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, also fair enough. I had sort of thought about that. I just couldn&#039;t let the opportunity pass. I&#039;ve been thinking a lot about the difficulty of predicting and ascribing cause recently as it relates to sports, and this would an opportunity to use it and get back a little for saying I was improperly using stats previously. 


&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-331367&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-331367&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frank&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: And again – the article asserts that Mavs are a clutch team, year after year, and much more so than would be expected. That suggests that there may be something to the argument.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

This is a causation problem, too, though. If players come and go and they are still &quot;clutch&quot;... do they consistently find clutch guys, or is their some organization culture that breeds clutchness? 


&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;comment-331367&quot;&gt;

&lt;strong&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;#comment-331367&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Frank&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;: But again, absence of an easily explainable reason doesn’t mean that that reason doesn’t exist.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Absolutely, but the opposite is sort of confirmation bias. Just because something happened, doesn&#039;t mean the explanation is what you think it is. The Mavs made it out of the 1st once in 4 seasons prior, losing 4-1 in the 2nd. They win... and suddenly they were clutch all along? Maybe, maybe not.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="comment-331367">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-331367" rel="nofollow">Frank</a></strong>: my point wasn’t actually that this particular study was so awesome – just that league-wide studies that show no obvious “clutch” or “hot hand” importance don’t necessarily mean that such things don’t exist.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, also fair enough. I had sort of thought about that. I just couldn&#8217;t let the opportunity pass. I&#8217;ve been thinking a lot about the difficulty of predicting and ascribing cause recently as it relates to sports, and this would an opportunity to use it and get back a little for saying I was improperly using stats previously. </p>
<blockquote cite="comment-331367">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-331367" rel="nofollow">Frank</a></strong>: And again – the article asserts that Mavs are a clutch team, year after year, and much more so than would be expected. That suggests that there may be something to the argument.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is a causation problem, too, though. If players come and go and they are still &#8220;clutch&#8221;&#8230; do they consistently find clutch guys, or is their some organization culture that breeds clutchness? </p>
<blockquote cite="comment-331367">
<p><strong><a href="#comment-331367" rel="nofollow">Frank</a></strong>: But again, absence of an easily explainable reason doesn’t mean that that reason doesn’t exist.</p></blockquote>
<p>Absolutely, but the opposite is sort of confirmation bias. Just because something happened, doesn&#8217;t mean the explanation is what you think it is. The Mavs made it out of the 1st once in 4 seasons prior, losing 4-1 in the 2nd. They win&#8230; and suddenly they were clutch all along? Maybe, maybe not.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331367</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 21:07:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331367</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[@Ted -
Fair enough - my point wasn&#039;t actually that this particular study was so awesome - just that league-wide studies that show no obvious &quot;clutch&quot; or &quot;hot hand&quot; importance don&#039;t necessarily mean that such things don&#039;t exist. The famous Carl Sagan quote is &quot;absence of evidence is not evidence of absence&quot;.  

Meanwhile - if Mark Cuban is paying real statisticians real salaries to come up with the stuff that was written about in that article, and presuming these are all smart people who have many many many more resources than any of us - - my guess is that simple statistics don&#039;t bear out any &quot;clutchness&quot; but that if you do more sophisticated analysis (ie. with Synergy film/breakdowns, Sportvu tech, etc.) that something does come through. 

And again - the article asserts that Mavs are a clutch team, year after year, and much more so than would be expected.  That suggests that there may be something  to the argument. maybe it&#039;s not Jason Kidd, but the combination of Terry and Nowitzki. Or Terry + Nowitzki + Chandler. Or not.  But again, absence of an easily explainable reason doesn&#039;t mean that that reason doesn&#039;t exist.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Ted -<br />
Fair enough &#8211; my point wasn&#8217;t actually that this particular study was so awesome &#8211; just that league-wide studies that show no obvious &#8220;clutch&#8221; or &#8220;hot hand&#8221; importance don&#8217;t necessarily mean that such things don&#8217;t exist. The famous Carl Sagan quote is &#8220;absence of evidence is not evidence of absence&#8221;.  </p>
<p>Meanwhile &#8211; if Mark Cuban is paying real statisticians real salaries to come up with the stuff that was written about in that article, and presuming these are all smart people who have many many many more resources than any of us &#8211; - my guess is that simple statistics don&#8217;t bear out any &#8220;clutchness&#8221; but that if you do more sophisticated analysis (ie. with Synergy film/breakdowns, Sportvu tech, etc.) that something does come through. </p>
<p>And again &#8211; the article asserts that Mavs are a clutch team, year after year, and much more so than would be expected.  That suggests that there may be something  to the argument. maybe it&#8217;s not Jason Kidd, but the combination of Terry and Nowitzki. Or Terry + Nowitzki + Chandler. Or not.  But again, absence of an easily explainable reason doesn&#8217;t mean that that reason doesn&#8217;t exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Ted Nelson</title>
		<link>http://KnickerBlogger.Net/lebron-agonistes/#comment-331363</link>
		<dc:creator>Ted Nelson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jun 2011 19:22:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://KnickerBlogger.Net/?p=7323#comment-331363</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Continuing from above... the other really difficult thing to do is show causation with stats. This article fails in trying to use +/- to do so. It shows the entire Mavs team outperformed expectations in the clutch, then tries to use +/- for it&#039;s players to prove they are clutch. The causation with +/- is not at all clear. If your team was a + in the clutch... of course the 5 guys who mostly play in the clutch will be a +... it proves nothing. 

So... again... prediction and causation are the tough part of statistics. Observation is the easy part. The article gets at some interesting points... but it doesn&#039;t come close to showing causation or explaining how to predict clutch performance.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Continuing from above&#8230; the other really difficult thing to do is show causation with stats. This article fails in trying to use +/- to do so. It shows the entire Mavs team outperformed expectations in the clutch, then tries to use +/- for it&#8217;s players to prove they are clutch. The causation with +/- is not at all clear. If your team was a + in the clutch&#8230; of course the 5 guys who mostly play in the clutch will be a +&#8230; it proves nothing. </p>
<p>So&#8230; again&#8230; prediction and causation are the tough part of statistics. Observation is the easy part. The article gets at some interesting points&#8230; but it doesn&#8217;t come close to showing causation or explaining how to predict clutch performance.</p>
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