We’re on the hook for about $58 million in 2010, if Curry, Q, Crawford, and James don’t opt out. Considering Lee will have to be re-signed (and Nate), 2010 will not see the Knicks having much to work with on the free agent market, if the current philosophy continues. The reason we are going to be capped out still is Zach Randolph. He’ll make $17 million in 2011…

But if we just let those contracts expire, we could go for lbj or dw ourselves. We should be 12-20 under in 2010, the year those two can opt out. Either way we can get a good player. We just got one in randolph despite all the salary woes.

i see your reasoning. It does make sense. Whatever we have been doing it has not worked. For the record, i’d like kobe because the knicks can get him two years sooner than lbj or dw.

It’s true, Atlanta is a pro sports graveyard. The passion goes into college football and college in general, and the city is full of transplants like me who love their old teams.

But the Hawks will be exciting to watch this year, and they’ll make the playoffs. They would have been better than the Knicks last year had injuries not sunk them, and now the PG spot has improved from worst in the league to just bad – plus, they added Al Horford.

Let’s hope they’re too stupid to sign Josh Smith to an extension and IT finds a way to reel him in, though it won’t be cheap.

You have answered your question already:

“Just help me out with one thing. It seems that you, and a number of posters, think it is important to have contracts that expire early… I don?t see why that is so important.”

The answer is this:

“The Lakers can get about 30 million under the cap and make a move at LeBron or Dwayne Wade in 2010. They did the same thing to get Shaq back in the 90?s.”

It is not the $$ spent that matters. It is the fact that every $ spent on player X is a $ that can’t be spent elsewhere. Cap management is crucial to building a healthy, long lasting franchise. Taking on long term contracts in exchange for shorter ones is a completely acceptable strategy for a legitimate win-now team, but I don’t think it is conducive to rebuilding. Isiah inherited Layden?s contracts, but he also maintained Layden’s philosophy. As it has been posted here before, if Isiah had simply let Layden’s contracts sunset and not turned them into even higher paid, longer tenured deals, the Knicks would be significantly under the cap this year and probably have the same number of wins to show for it.

It is true Charlotte and Atlanta have not found suitable players to spend their cap space on. This is because nobody wants to play for either city. Charlotte saw its last franchise leave altogether. Atlanta is a passionless pit of apathetic lethargy (sorry Caleb– I love the city, but they have the worst sports fans in the country (no doubt the reason you’re a Knick fan…).

On the other hand almost every marquee name wants to play in NY or LA. This is not because the Garden is the world?s most famous arena, or because the fans are the most knowledgeable. It’s because they are worth more money playing in NY than in Cleveland.

The reason Shaq was even a free agent was because his agent knew that the Lakers were $30 million under the cap. If his only choices were to go to Atlanta, Toronto, or Vancouver, he’d probably have won three rings with the Magic. The same goes for LeBron, and the draft class of 2003. They all extended with their original teams because there was more money to be had there (since all the Knicks have been able to offer for years has been the mid-level exception). If there was even a chance the Knicks would be $30 million under the cap this year (which they could be if Isiah had spent every hour in his GM office prepping for the draft), LeBron, Wade, Bosh, et al, probably would have tested the waters, just as Shaq decided to do in 1996.

You say we can trade Malik and Marbury for Kobe and the Lakers can then sign Wade or LeBron with their cap space. Would you rather have Kobe than LeBron or Wade? Kobe’ll be a 13 year vet. Why not use the cap space Marbury’s contract gives us to sign LeBron instead? Oh yeah– I forgot. It’s because we are too maxed out with other contracts like QRich, Jamal, JJ, and most recently Zach Randolph.

Francis, for all of his worthlessness, was to expire with Marbury. We could have shed $45 million that summer. But hey, Randolph could get us over the hump this year, so it’s worth it.

The hump of 8th best team in the east…

Very insightful. Just help me out with one thing. It seems that you, and a number of posters, think it is important to have contracts that expire early. For example, you noted that the Kurt Thomas contract and the Narz Mohammed contracts would have epired by now. I dont see why that is so important.

Money and the salary cap are not huge deals in NY. Furthermore, very few marquee players leave via free agency. So being 10 mill under the cap doesnt do much for a team. Take the Bobcats and the Hawks, they have had cap room and do little with it. The Cavs had tons of room 3 years ago and they wasted it on Hughes, Marshall, and Jones.

Lets say we were 10 mill under the cap and we signed Jeffries and James. Would things be any better? The free agent crop has not been good. The last 3-4 years. The biggest free agents have been Ben Wallace, Larry Hughes, and Rashard Lewis. I dont really see them a difference makers.

Rose and Marbury come off the books next year. Kobe can opt out at the end of next year. If the Lakers dont move kobe now, they will have to next year. We could use the Marbury and Rose contracts to bring in Kobe, plus take back a few other unfavorable contracts from the Lakers. The Lakers can get about 30 million under the cap and make at move at Lebron or Dwayne Wade in 2010. They did the same thing to get Shaq back in the 90′s.

Help me understand why the salary is so important. It seems that Isaih is still able to bring in good players even with the Knicks over the cap.

Maybe i’m the only one.

Nazr wasn’t really under performing. He was playing the way he always had. He was playing the way he was playing when Isiah traded for him exactly one year earlier and declared him the center of the future.

“we took the Malik Rose contract, a contract that will have some value next year. This expiring deal could help us land a player if a team is looking to make room.”

Nazr’s contract has already expired. Plus, Rose’s contract doesn’t expire until ’09, when Marbury’s $20 million contract expires, so his contractual asset is really quite marginal.

Basically, Nazr is better than Rose straight up and Nazr’s contract was better than Rose’s so the only way this trade looks good is because we drafted Lee with one of the picks. As birchnbrook noted, that pick probably could have come from elsewhere (say the Mo Taylor trade… or at least Moochie, Vin, Nazr, the 2nd rounder that went to Houston, and/or cash could have some other way been turned into the 30th pick in the ’05 draft).

“On the QRich for Kurt Thomas deal… The problem is this – QRich, as much as I love him (I think things went south last year primarily when QRich went down), the problem is his uninsured back.”

The problem is definitely his uninsured back. I like Q and the trade made some sense player for player. But in reality, Q’s unisnured contract is way more than Q is really worth, even if it was insurable. He had a strong year in LA and got a long expensive contract for it. Then in Phoenix, where everybody looks like a $45 million player (even Tim Thomas!), he looked like a $45 million player. Even if his back holds up he’s on the books for three more years. Meanwhile Kurt’s contract expires this year. That’s about the time Q retires because he can’t stand up any more, but his $20 million will still be riding on our backs.

“Every player drafted thus far. Isiah has yet to pick up a bust.”

No argument there. Isiah is either the luckiest drafter or the best. I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt and say he’s the best. That is why it is so hard for me to accept the Nichols affair. He has yet to pick up a bust. So keep him and buy out James. Duh!

“I much prefer IT giving up money than Layden giving up draft picks. Money doesnt hurt the knicks all that much.”

Isiah has given up his share of draff picks…

Mr. Black– you make a noble attempt at defending Isiah’s moves since becoming GM. But even the good moves you note were often erasing bad moves that he had already made (Francis, Nazr, Tim Thomas…)

“Who would want to continue with Kurt Thomas as your tallest tree-surrounded by no-D Tim Thomas and an undersized 3.”

Tim Thomas was actually an oversized 3 and he still couldn’t rebound or play D. But Van Horn could rebound and Isiah chose to go with Tim Thomas instead, then trade his starting center for an undersized 4 (Malik Rose). So having Kurt surrounded by Tim Thomas and undersized players was really Isiah’s fault anyway. If he traded his starting center at the deadline confident that he’d replace him with Jerome James in June, then that makes the Nazr for Rose trade even worse since James sucked then just as he sucks now (if he could play he’d suck at least…)

You hit the nail on the head. It really doesnt matter if the trades are great or awful over payments, it doesnt matter if the free agents are overpaid. All that matters is the end result. We have zero playoffs wins to show for IT’s tenure. IT and Dolan must be held accountable for that.

Hell he could trade for Kobe and if all we get are first round exits for the next 5 years, if that, then he failed.

You are right, each of IT’s silver linings seem to have a cloud. To be fair, I much prefer IT giving up money than Layden giving up draft picks. Money doesnt hurt the knicks all that much.

On the Malik Rose deal – I would say that IT could have easily, easily moved into the late first round in that draft and grabbed Lee. Teams were practically begging to give those picks away. IT didn’t read the market correctly, and while it certainly is not my money – it is Dolan’s – it was a deal he overpaid for. You could say it is just money, because they were over the cap and it doesn’t matter, but that is besides the point – IT could easily have gotten those picks cheaper.

On the QRich for Kurt Thomas deal, not to get so locked into my position that I convince myself I am right, I’ll give it an even on the plus/minus scale. The problem is this – QRich, as much as I love him (I think things went south last year primarily when QRich went down), the problem is his uninsured back. He is now untradeable – no other GM will touch Q. So I have to believe IT overpaid for him, since Phoenix wanted to get rid of him so bad that they agreed to throw in Nate (actually, the pick that IT turned into Nate).

So even on the “good” deals, I would view IT as overpaying for them. The proof is this – when was the last time, in all of the many, many deals he has made over the years, that IT clearly got the better end of the deal? Maybe with Zach Randolph, but please – he was just poison to the Blazers, and they were dying to dump him.

Bottom line – IT blows. Big time. So does Dolan. For us fans – man, does it blow.