Statistical Analysis. Humor. Knicks.

Monday, December 22, 2014

Steve Novak resigns… I mean re-signs! Re-signs! #keyhyphen

Multiple sores are reporting that the Knicks and Steve Novak have agreed to a new, four-year contract worth in the neighborhood of $15 million, with no options.

The talking sores are also reporting that I should really start wearing sunscreen if I plan on falling asleep at the beach for five hours or more.

News of the signing broke just as a shaving James Dolan crumpled up a wad of thousand dollar bills to use as a makeshift drainstop.

All ballyhoo aside, the contract — while not egregious in the $20-million-over-three-years-for-Landry Fields-sense — further proves what most have known for a while now: Guitar Jimmy is all in, luxury tax be damned.

Novak, who was grabbed off of waivers on December 21st of last year, averaged 16.8 points and 3.7 rebounds per 36 last year, and led the league in three point shooting at just south of 48%.

While Novak agent Mark Bertelstein had expressed vociferous interest in returning to New York since the end of last season, the Knicks’ precarious cap situation meant they were likely looking at choosing between the sharp-shooting journeyman and insta-offense specialist J.R. Smith.

However, after an arbitrator ruled last month that the language of the league’s new collective bargaining agreement would be amended to grant Novak and teammate Jeremy Lin so-called “Bird Rights” — essentially allowing New York to exceed the cap in order to sign them both — it was widely believed that the Knicks would make resigning both a top priority.

So there you have it! Seems like a little much to hand a near-30-year-old with a very limited — though highly-honed — skill set, but after watching Novak be able to buckle an invisible seat belt under both D’Antoni and Woodson, it seems like a relatively harmless gambit.

More details to come as they emerge.

117 comments on “Steve Novak resigns… I mean re-signs! Re-signs! #keyhyphen

  1. ephus

    RE-POSTED from prior thread:

    Like everyone else who has posted, I am happy that Novak is coming back. If he is working on one skill this off-season, I hope it is learning to pick and pop. It is a much less athletic move than learning to curl off of a screen. Since Lambeer could do it, I figure it is within Novak’s reach. A Lin/Novak PnP would be a devastating play.

  2. alsep73

    Only thing I don’t love about the deal is the fourth year, as the idea was that, if necessary, we could shed every contract but Shump’s at the same time. (This assumes, of course, that Lin turns back into a pumpkin, Amar’e’s wheels fall off, Tyson keeps getting injured, etc.) Now we’ll have two contracts on the books for that season, though neither is onerous.

  3. ephus

    I will be interested to see if the Knicks front-loaded the contract. Luxury tax this year will be 100%. In year two and year three, the Knicks will be paying a graduated tax starting at 150%. And in year four, the Knicks may be paying the repeater tax rate starting at 250%.

    Structuring the deal so that Novak starts at $4.25 million and goes down to $3.3 million would save the Knicks over $1.4 million in tax over the course of the deal (assuming the Knicks hit the repeater tax in 2016-17).

  4. johnlocke

    He also really needs to work on faking, taking a dribble or two inside the line and draining the jumper. Miami rendered him useless by closing hard, but not jumping. He would fake and then just pass the ball, he needs to be able to let the defense pay for hard close outs more than he has, especially when they don’t jump at him (where he usually just side-steps behind the line and drains it).

    ephus:
    RE-POSTED from prior thread:

    Like everyone else who has posted, I am happy that Novak is coming back. If he is working on one skill this off-season, I hope it is learning to pick and pop. It is a much less athletic move than learning to curl off of a screen. Since Lambeer could do it, I figure it is within Novak’s reach. A Lin/Novak PnP would be a devastating play.

  5. johnlocke

    So are Novak and Fields now getting paid more than J.R.? This can’t make him happy.

  6. ephus

    BTW, no matter how you slice it, the Knicks will be paying at least $14 million in tax on this deal over the first three years, and at least $8 million in year 4 if they hit the repeater tax.

    If the Knicks and Lakers are paying big tax bills each year, it will really intensify the incentive for other teams to stay under the tax threshold. Only non-taxpaying teams share in the money obtained through the luxury tax: 50% of the luxury tax goes to non-tax teams and 50% funds revenue sharing. When a team crosses the tax line, the effective rate will be well over 150%, because they will also lose out on the benefit of tax receipts.

    For teams like Milwaukee, OKC, Sacramento, Phoenix, Orlando, New Orleans and Utah, the tax-limit will be pretty close to a hard cap.

  7. Z

    ephus:

    Structuring the deal so that Novak starts at $4.25 million and goes down to $3.3 million would save the Knicks over $1.4 million in tax over the course of the deal (assuming the Knicks hit the repeater tax in 2016-17).

    And it would make the contract more desirous in a deldown the road.

    I lve the idea of front loading. Never understand why deals escalate as production inevitably goes down. Pay now for what you want, not later for what you can’t get.

  8. ephus

    Teams backload deals because of the time-value of money. Basically, a dollar today is worth more than a dollar tomorrow. The time-value of money increases when there is high inflation and high interest rates. In the current environment, there is much less economic advantage to back-loading deals.

  9. ephus

    BigBlueAL: Are NBA contracts even allowed to be front-loaded??

    You can front load a deal by using the maximum % decrease per year, which is the same as the maximum increase per year. So, for Bird Rights and Early Bird Rights contracts, the maximum decrease per year is 7.5%. For MLEs, the maximum decrease is 4.5%

    http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q53

  10. Jafa

    Did we discuss the proposed Howard Trade?

    http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/09/details-of-potential-dwight-howard-trade-leaking-magic-get-brooks-picks/

    Brooklyn getting Howard, Jason Richardson & Earl Clark

    Orlando getting two 1st round picks from Brooklyn, one 1st round pick from a 4th team, Brook Lopez, Damion Jones, Sheldon Williams, Luke Walton

    Cleveland getting Quentin Richardson, Sundiata Gaines, Kris Humphries, a 1st round pick from Brooklyn and $3 Million

    A 4th Team getting MarShon Brooks

  11. JC Knickfan

    ephus:
    RE-POSTED from prior thread:

    Like everyone else who has posted, I am happy that Novak is coming back. If he is working on one skill this off-season, I hope it is learning to pick and pop. It is a much less athletic move than learning to curl off of a screen. Since Lambeer could do it, I figure it is within Novak’s reach. A Lin/Novak PnP would be a devastating play.

    During Linsanity where Knicks won at Minnesota, there was a prime of a Novak PnP. Knicks where down by 3 with 36 sec go to. TC set screen, Novak ran to 3pt, inbound was to Lin and Lin hit bounce pass to Novak. His feet was set and he hit 3pt to tie it.

    This really one few time I saw them actually run a play for Novak. Given how deadly he was from 3pt I think it waste that Knicks did not run more plays for him. From what I saw he doesn’t seem agility to effective do curl screen, but PnP should be design play next season.

  12. Jafa

    Based on this deal the trade is:

    Neutral for the 4th team

    A mixed bag for Cleveland – landing a 1st, cash and Humprhies on a one-year guaranteed contract in exchange for Luke Walton and the use of your cap space is great, but you are helping create a super team that you are going to have a tough time getting by in your own conference

    Ok for Orlando – trading Howard is a no-win proposition unless your getting LBJ back in the trade. However, they are getting rid of several bad contracts for 3 1st round picks and Brook Lopez. This proposed trade would go from “Ok” to “Good” for them if they were able to get rid of Turk and Duhon’s contracts as well.

    Fantastic for Brooklyn – no explanation needed.

  13. ephus

    Jafa: Ok for Orlando – trading Howard is a no-win proposition unless your getting LBJ back in the trade. However, they are getting rid of several bad contracts for 3 1st round picks and Brook Lopez. This proposed trade would go from “Ok” to “Good” for them if they were able to get rid of Turk and Duhon’s contracts as well.

    According to the latest version of the trade circulated by ESPN, Duhon goes to the Nets as part of the deal.

    Clippers turn a late-first round draft pick into Marshon Brooks on a rookie contract.

    But the Magic will still be stuck with Turk and Big Baby on bad contracts. And Brook Lopez on a three year deal starting at $12.9 million is horrible, unless there are non-guaranteed years.

  14. Gideon Zaga

    I remember that play so clearly. And the only reason they ran that was because Melo was hurt. That play was originally designed for Melo clutch instances. I think it worked nice with Novak too. Gotta give it to Dantoni, as bad of an in game manager he was; the guy knew his pick and roll.

    JC Knickfan: During Linsanity where Knicks won at Minnesota, there was a prime of a Novak PnP. Knicks where down by 3 with 36 sec go to. TC set screen, Novak ran to 3pt, inbound was to Lin and Lin hit bounce pass to Novak. His feet was set and he hit 3pt to tie it.

    This really one few time I saw them actually run a play for Novak. Given how deadly he was from 3pt I think it waste that Knicks did not run more plays for him. From what I saw he doesn’t seem agility to effective do curl screen, but PnP should be design play next season.

  15. ephus

    JC Knickfan: During Linsanity where Knicks won at Minnesota, there was a prime of a Novak PnP. Knicks where down by 3 with 36 sec go to. TC set screen, Novak ran to 3pt, inbound was to Lin and Lin hit bounce pass to Novak. His feet was set and he hit 3pt to tie it.

    This really one few time I saw them actually run a play for Novak. Given how deadly he was from 3pt I think it waste that Knicks did not run more plays for him. From what I saw he doesn’t seem agility to effective do curl screen, but PnP should be design play next season.

    That was a pin-down screen, not a Pick and Pop. What I am talking about is having Novak set the screen for Lin at the top of the key and then pop to the three-point line for a quick pass. If Novak’s man hedges on the screen, Novak should be able to get an open look. If Novak’s man does not hedge on the screen, Lin should be able to turn the corner and get easy penetration into the lane.

  16. jon abbey

    Jordan Schultz ?@206Child

    Source confirms #Knicks are on verge of acquiring Marcus Camby via sign-and-trade for Toney Douglas, Josh Harrelson, Dan Gadzuric, JJordan.

  17. Jafa

    jon abbey:
    Jordan Schultz ?@206Child

    Source confirms #Knicks are on verge of acquiring Marcus Camby via sign-and-trade for Toney Douglas, Josh Harrelson, Dan Gadzuric, JJordan.

    Wow! We need to give up “all 4″ to get Camby? I know they are all young and unproven but still.

  18. jon abbey

    that would give us a lot of roster spots to fill, unless I’m forgetting someone:

    Lin
    Smith?
    Melo
    Amare
    Chandler

    Kidd
    Novak
    Camby
    Shumpert (when healthy)
    Jeffries?
    James White

  19. jon abbey

    the only one with much potential there really is Jordan, although I guess Douglas could inexplicably be good again just like he was inexplicably bad last year.

  20. Jafa

    I heard AJ Price is being let go by Indy. Should we go for him as our 3rd PG? Would he go for the minimum?

  21. thenamestsam

    ephus:
    Here is video of that Novak play.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=01-IhogLHNo

    Screen from Chandler was more of a cross-screen than a pin-down, but it was definitely not a Pick and Pop.

    And a seriously illegal one at that. Hate seeing the refs swallow the whistle, even if it is in our favor.

    On the Camby reported sign and trade that would mean the Kidd deal would have to be for the MLE and not a sign and trade correct?

  22. Z

    jon abbey:
    Jordan Schultz ?@206Child

    Source confirms #Knicks are on verge of acquiring Marcus Camby via sign-and-trade for Toney Douglas, Josh Harrelson, Dan Gadzuric, JJordan.

    I’ve been clinically depressed for exactly 10 years now… Here to hoping correlation = causation!

  23. Jafa

    What happened to Mikel Peitris (I know I am messing up the spelling of him name but you know who he is). Could we get him for depth at the SG position? And I thought Morrow was getting bought out?

  24. thenamestsam

    Now other reporters reporting that Camby deal is not close and that he hasn’t decided. Reporting standards on twitter not always the best.

  25. jon abbey

    this sounds better, giving up both Jordan and Jorts would be kind of a bummer:

    Jonathan Feigen ?@Jonathan_Feigen

    A deal for Camby is possible, maybe even probable “in next 24 hours.” Rockets would get back pieces, but won’t be for all 4 Knicks offered.

  26. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, agreed, I’d hate to give up both. Honestly, I think I’d just as soon give them Jorts over Jordan even though Jorts actually plays.

  27. Brian Cronin

    I love

    Humphries agent, Dan Fegan, is still trying to convince Humphries to settle for a deal that will be guaranteed for just one year. Fegan also represents Howard.

    “Yeah, uhmmm…it is a good idea because it helps my biggest client get where he wants to go…shit, no no, that’s not what I meant. It is a good deal for you because…uhmmmm…”

  28. johnlocke

    “Source confirms #Knicks are on verge of acquiring Marcus Camby via sign-and-trade for Toney Douglas, Josh Harrelson, Dan Gadzuric, JJordan”

    While this is not complete yet, does it really make sense of giving all this up for Camby? And just to be clear by “all this” I mean Jorts and Jerome Jordan, who both have potential and Toney Douglas (if he actually regains confidence and a jumper). I dunno I’d def do Toney, and Gadzuric, wouldn’t be so quick to throw in JJ and Jorts

  29. alsep73

    Gotta give something to get something, johnlocke. We’re asking Morey to do us a favor in allowing us to fit both Kidd and Camby under the cap. He’ll want more for that than to have to carry TDDWTDD on his books for a season. (Though he might either rediscover his stroke or have value as an expiring contract.) My assumption is it’ll be one of the two (more likely Jordan, even though I’d rather keep him and lose Jorts), and I can live with that. Both seems excessive, but one is fair.

  30. Brian Cronin

    Oh yeah, I think the Knicks would have to give up one of Jorts and Jordan to make it worth Houston’s time. I just wouldn’t want to lose both. Hopefully Jordan sticks around (well, provided that they, you know, play him some!).

  31. ephus

    It sounds as if the Knicks will pull back one of the four from the Camby S&T. Even though I love Jorts and think it is likely he will have a better career than Jerome Jordan, I would hold onto JJ because of his greater potential. If JJ develops, he could be another Mutombo or Hibbert — although it is much more likely he will be a washout. If Jorts develops, he could be another Brandon Bass — although it is much more likely he will be Brian Scalabrine.

  32. johnlocke

    agreed, but we’re talking about a back-up center that averages about a back up center that averages 4 pts per game, shoots about 40%, 1 block per game, is a HORRIBLE FT shooter and has no upside… he’d be a nice piece but not at that price. I’d give them TD and Gadzuric…but definitely not all 4. I wouldn’t include Jorts or Jerome Jordan for him. He’s a good rebounder….but not sure he’s worth all those assets

    alsep73:
    Gotta give something to get something, johnlocke. We’re asking Morey to do us a favor in allowing us to fit both Kidd and Camby under the cap. He’ll want more for that than to have to carry TDDWTDD on his books for a season. (Though he might either rediscover his stroke or have value as an expiring contract.) My assumption is it’ll be one of the two (more likely Jordan, even though I’d rather keep him and lose Jorts), and I can live with that. Both seems excessive, but one is fair.

  33. Brian Cronin

    I think you’re way underselling Camby. I think even Camby’s biggest critics allow that the guy would have major value to any contending team. Note that the defending champs really want him, as well. The guy can still bring it on defense and on the boards, and he allows Chandler to not have to worry about foul trouble so much. It used to be if Chandler got into foul trouble, the Knicks’ defense fell apart. With Camby as his back-up, that’d no longer be the case.

  34. jon abbey

    Camby has led the league in rebound percentage the last three seasons. he’s also a great shot blocker and would allow Chandler to play a few less minutes and stay fresher over the course of the season.

  35. StatsTeacher

    I have never heard of a front loaded contract but that would be exceptionally smart on the Knicks part to structure Novak that way.

    Just watched some Summer League on NBATV — Drummond is so fun to watch. He is a beast on the boards, moves well and shot two free throw airballs that were EXACTLY 2 feet short AND 2 feet left. It was awesome. 39% ft’er in college. The return of Ben Wallace maybe.

  36. Brian Cronin

    Camby has led the league in rebound percentage the last three seasons. he’s also a great shot blocker and would allow Chandler to play a few less minutes and stay fresher over the course of the season.

    Yes, exactly.

  37. Brian Cronin

    Re: The Knicks meeting with Rashard Lewis. Where, exactly, would he play? I mean, where is their minutes if the Knicks’ frontcourt is Melo, Amar’e, Chandler, Camby and Novak? Would he take Jeffries’ role? I think I’d actually prefer Jeffries to Lewis. That shot of Lewis, though, can be useful.

  38. StatsTeacher

    Still waiting to see them pursue 2’s and 2/3 combos. Courtney Lee? Brandon Rush? Not Lewis, no room. Hope we get Camby, Knicks would be on a real roll.

    Brian Cronin:
    Re: The Knicks meeting with Rashard Lewis. Where, exactly, would he play? I mean, where is their minutes if the Knicks’ frontcourt is Melo, Amar’e, Chandler, Camby and Novak? Would he take Jeffries’ role? I think I’d actually prefer Jeffries to Lewis. That shot of Lewis, though, can be useful.

  39. d-mar

    I have a question regarding the D-12 situation: why is any team other than Orlando or NJ interested in facilitating this deal? When Miami put together the super friends, they were all free agents and no other team had to be involved. But if you’re Cleveland, the Clippers and whoever else, unless you were getting some kind of steal in terms of draft picks, rising stars, massive cap relief or something, why cooperate and allow Brooklyn to create one more super team to kick your ass for years to come? Am I missing something?

  40. rohank

    I should probably wait to post this till JR re-signs as well, but just for fun: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkbG9JyBIGA&feature=related

    Also, to buck up our optimism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icTkbn9Sprs&feature=related

    Go to 1:28 in the video to make you feel great about Lin.
    Also:
    1) Look how many different ways Lin can score
    2) His chemistry with Shump is awesome

    Also, if you want more Lin and hilarity, I’m sure you’ve all seen this, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zExrVyTX_aw

  41. johnlocke

    Yes, he’s a great rebounder and a good shotblocker. I’m not against getting the guy, but not at the expense of Jorts and Jerome Jordan and TD, that’s just too expensive. If we get him for TD and Gadzuric, I’ll consider it a good deal. More than that, and we overpaid…we are talking about a free agent here guys.

    jon abbey:
    Camby has led the league in rebound percentage the last three seasons. he’s also a great shot blocker and would allow Chandler to play a few less minutes and stay fresher over the course of the season.

  42. Brian Cronin

    I have a question regarding the D-12 situation: why is any team other than Orlando or NJ interested in facilitating this deal? When Miami put together the super friends, they were all free agents and no other team had to be involved. But if you’re Cleveland, the Clippers and whoever else, unless you were getting some kind of steal in terms of draft picks, rising stars, massive cap relief or something, why cooperate and allow Brooklyn to create one more super team to kick your ass for years to come? Am I missing something?

    The Clippers get to make sure that the Lakers don’t get him. As for the Cavaliers, I suppose that they’re confident enough in their own team that they’ll take the extra players in return for just Luke Walton and some cap room (that wasn’t getting them anything of note this season anyways). And if Hump plays as well as he did in New Jersey, the Hump has major trade value for them. And yes, the ol’ conspiracy angel is that Dan Gilbert wants to help make things harder for Lebron. ;)

  43. Ben R

    We have a three year window to win with Melo, Tyson and Amare and limited resources each year to improve the team. We need to go after and develop players that will be useful for all three years so our bench can keep improving. By using our MLE and all our, admittedly limited, trade assets on two players who are over 38 we are going all in this year and will have to start over next year building our bench back up.

    We will be lucky if both Camby and Kidd have full productive years this year, next year is a crap shoot and the third year is a prayer. I hate to be ageist but most players retire before the age of 38 because our bodies cannot bounce back as fast as we age and our athleticism slips. Kidd and Camby have been very lucky to still be healthy and productive but they will hit the wall soon. We need to build with youth so hopefully we can get lucky ala Lin rather than build with age and have a repeat of Davis and Bibby.

  44. Z

    d-mar:
    I have a question regarding the D-12 situation: why is any team other than Orlando or NJ interested in facilitating this deal? When Miami put together the super friends, they were all free agents and no other team had to be involved. But if you’re Cleveland, the Clippers and whoever else, unless you were getting some kind of steal in terms of draft picks, rising stars, massive cap relief or something, why cooperate and allow Brooklyn to create one more super team to kick your ass for years to come? Am I missing something?

    The wolves took Beasley’s contract of Riley’s hands. And the Wizards helped the Bulls clear enough space to make a max offer by taking Hinrich. It’s good business for rebuilding teams to cash in on other teams’ desperation.

  45. Z

    The rockets probably figured they were gifting us LeBron when they agreed to take Jeffries off our hands.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if the Cavs win a title before the Nets do, even if this trade goes down.

  46. The Honorable Cock Jowles

    One thing that makes the Jordan thing not so bad is that he’s already 25 and will be 26 before the season begins. Berri’s stats (and WS48, I’d imagine) claim that players peak around age 24. While Jordan would likely peak later (due to playing time and experience), unless he’s getting serious minutes this year, he’s really not much of an asset. By the time he’s “ready,” he’ll already be getting old. Of course I’d rather have him from 25-30 rather then Camby from 38-40, but if he turns out to be a stud like I believe he could be, we won’t be able to resign him anyway.

    Camby is a sure thing for this year, barring injuries. This team is going to be worlds better with him playing 15-20 minutes a game.

  47. yellowboy90

    StatsTeacher:
    Still waiting to see them pursue 2?s and 2/3 combos.Courtney Lee?Brandon Rush?Not Lewis, no room.Hope we get Camby, Knicks would be on a real roll.

    All for pieces gets the Knicks up to a little over 7.4 mill back. They better get Camby and Lee for that price. Camby at 3.2 and Lee at 4.2 is pretty fair.

  48. Robtachi

    alsep73:
    Only thing I don’t love about the deal is the fourth year, as the idea was that, if necessary, we could shed every contract but Shump’s at the same time. (This assumes, of course, that Lin turns back into a pumpkin, Amar’e’s wheels fall off, Tyson keeps getting injured, etc.) Now we’ll have two contracts on the books for that season, though neither is onerous.

    Isn’t there value in setting yourself up to have valuable expiring contracts in different seasons so you have trade possibilities in more than one year?

  49. yellowboy90

    Does anyone think that Jordan or Harrelson will be cut after getting traded? I mean if Josh is included why would Houston keep him with all the PFs they have? Maybe play him at Center?

  50. The leg accessory that is JVG

    I’m going to be shocked if this deal goes down between the Nets and the Magic. I hard to believe other teams are willing to help build a super team after how disgusted other execs were when Miami’s big 3 formed. How else can you explain that Gar and Riley tied in exec of the year voting? I know the bulls did exceptionally well but Riley got the top talent in the NBA and the best PF currently in the East. If this trade does go down, Miami vs. Brooklyn will be looking spectacular next year.

  51. jon abbey

    wow, Douglas, Jordan, Jorts, two second round picks and cash. Camby better be good.

  52. jon abbey

    Camby signs a 3/$13.2M deal with NY. if the NBA goes to a 40 and over league, we will definitely be the early favorites.

  53. jon abbey

    so who fills out the roster now? I think we have at least four open spots (not counting Gadzuric):

    Lin
    Smith?
    Melo
    Amare
    Chandler

    Kidd
    Novak
    Camby
    Shumpert (when healthy)
    Jeffries?
    James White

  54. The leg accessory that is JVG

    jon abbey: Camby signs a 3/$13.2M deal with NY. if the NBA goes to a 40 and over league, we will definitely be the early favorites.

    Ouch. I’m glad the Heat backed away from Camby. He’s a good center but his productivity could easily go down next year due to age. At least Dolan isn’t scared of the luxury tax I guess.

  55. The leg accessory that is JVG

    jon abbey: so who fills out the roster now? I think we have at least four open spots (not counting Gadzuric):LinSmith?MeloAmareChandlerKiddNovakCambyShumpert (when healthy)Jeffries?James White

    Knicks need to desperately try to sign some bargain 3 point shooters. The roster as currently constructed is actually worse at 3s than last years team.

  56. JK47

    On the one hand, I’m sorry to see Jorts and Jordan go. On the other hand, you can find project big men in pretty much every year’s draft. So, yay, I guess. Unlike last year, we should be able to send a competent point guard and a true rim protector out on the floor at all times.

    I guess this increases the likelihood of Jared Jeffries coming back, since we’ll need to replace some bodies. Assuming we bring back JR Smith and Jeffries we’ll have:

    PG Lin, Kidd
    SG Smith, Shumpert
    SF Anthony, White
    PF Stoudemire, Novak, Jeffries
    C Chandler, Camby

    Could still use another 3-point specialist and perhaps a 3rd string point guard.

  57. jon abbey

    Ken Berger thinks Houston might release Jordan or Jorts or both.

    Grunwald needs to go out and scour the waiver wire again now, he did a great job last year with Lin and Novak.

  58. Frank

    Jeffries
    Michael Redd
    Bill Walker

    I’d cheer for that. Can’t say I am particularly sad to see any of those guys go. They are fringe players at best, although TD and JJordan have a chance at being average players.

    But guys- come on. This team is freaking stacked right now assuming JR comes back.

    We’ve got young guys, old guys, mid career vets, playoff experience, offesnive specialists, defensive specialists. We are on balance as talented as Miami IMHO although in a short series our depth will not be as important.

  59. d-mar

    JK47:
    On the one hand, I’m sorry to see Jorts and Jordan go.On the other hand, you can find project big men in pretty much every year’s draft.So, yay, I guess.Unlike last year, we should be able to send a competent point guard and a true rim protector out on the floor at all times.

    I guess this increases the likelihood of Jared Jeffries coming back, since we’ll need to replace some bodies.Assuming we bring back JR Smith and Jeffries we’ll have:

    PG Lin, Kidd
    SG Smith, Shumpert
    SF Anthony, White
    PF Stoudemire, Novak, Jeffries
    C Chandler, Camby

    Could still use another 3-point specialist and perhaps a 3rd string point guard.

    Wow, that’s a damn deep team with some solid veterans coming off the bench (we now have the 2007 and 2012 DPOY’s) It’s been said before, but the keys to this team’s success will be whether STAT can return to some semblance of his 2010-2011 self and Lin can be a consistently solid PG. I think we know what we’re getting with everyone else.

  60. jon abbey

    even with Jeffries, that’s four open roster spots. we’ll need at least a couple of those guys to contribute over the course of the season, very curious how Grunwald fills those spots.

  61. The leg accessory that is JVG

    I’m curious as to how much JR Smith will get now with Novak getting 3.75 mil a year and Camby getting 4.4. What is the most the Knicks can offer right now?

  62. SeeWhyDee77

    Steep price…nevertheless I’m glad he’s returning..but he has to work on more parts of his game to justify his new deal. Just becoming a better rebounder would make me happy

  63. Frank

    jon abbey:
    even with Jeffries, that’s four open roster spots. we’ll need at least a couple of those guys to contribute over the course of the season, very curious how Grunwald fills those spots.

    The minimum is 13, but given Grunwald’s ability to find talent it wouldn’t surprise me to see Dolan agreeing to fill all 15 slots. We’ve taken a flyer on James White- would like to see 2 vets and at least one more shot at the moon on a young guy.

    Speaking of Dolan- what is the statute of limitations on hating him for Isiah and for sabotaging the Melo trade? Because hate him or not, our owner is stepping up and agreeing to pay tens of millions of $ in luxury tax to put the best team he can on the floor.

  64. Frank

    The leg accessory that is JVG:
    I’m curious as to how much JR Smith will get now with Novak getting 3.75 mil a year and Camby getting 4.4.What is the most the Knicks can offer right now?

    2.8 as a non bird exception raise. I am a little nervous we haven’t heard anything about JR yet. He is certain to get more on the open market if he wants it.

  65. jon abbey

    here you go, Frank:

    John Hollinger ?@johnhollinger

    I’m hearing Knicks are now trying to wrap up J.R. Smith deal.

    KBergCBS: Knicks are intensely focused on re-signing J.R. Smith, source says.

  66. Frank

    jon abbey:
    here you go, Frank:

    John Hollinger ?@johnhollinger

    I’m hearing Knicks are now trying to wrap up J.R. Smith deal.

    KBergCBS: Knicks are intensely focused on re-signing J.R. Smith, source says.

    Lol- how intensely can you say- here’s our 2.8M offer?

  67. johnlocke

    Yeh once again, we’ll be one of the worst 3 pt shooting teams in the league. We need another knock down shooter that can be a combo 2/3. Not excited about Camby at the price we paid to get him, given his current age and production..hope it works out. I liked Jorts and JJ’s potential and TD had a horrific season, he has to be due for a better one.

    JK47:
    On the one hand, I’m sorry to see Jorts and Jordan go.On the other hand, you can find project big men in pretty much every year’s draft.So, yay, I guess.Unlike last year, we should be able to send a competent point guard and a true rim protector out on the floor at all times.

    I guess this increases the likelihood of Jared Jeffries coming back, since we’ll need to replace some bodies.Assuming we bring back JR Smith and Jeffries we’ll have:

    PG Lin, Kidd
    SG Smith, Shumpert
    SF Anthony, White
    PF Stoudemire, Novak, Jeffries
    C Chandler, Camby

    Could still use another 3-point specialist and perhaps a 3rd string point guard.

  68. johnlocke

    Outside of Novak, we don’t have anyone else that shoots threes close to 40%. That could be a big weak point

    Frank:
    Jeffries
    Michael Redd
    Bill Walker

    I’d cheer for that. Can’t say I am particularly sad to see any of those guys go. They are fringe players at best, although TD and JJordan have a chance at being average players.

    But guys- come on. This team is freaking stacked right now assuming JR comes back.

    We’ve got young guys, old guys, mid career vets, playoff experience, offesnive specialists, defensive specialists. We are on balance as talented as Miami IMHO although in a short series our depth will not be as important.

  69. jon abbey

    JR Smith is one of the best 3 point shooters in the league, he just had a lousy year last year.

  70. jon abbey

    and only 22 players in the whole league last year shot 40 percent from 3 point range.

  71. yehudi3000

    Damn way too much for a 38 years old. we could get much beter players at that price

  72. Frank

    Figure Lin will work on his 3point shot and be 35%. Kidd will prob shoot about the same. JR will shoot 40%. Novak will be 45%. Melo hopefully in high 30s. That’s not bad.

    Amazingly,I’m not sure this offense is a top 10 offense unless Linis really the second coming. But our defense should be a lot better with both Camby and Tyson, hopefully a healthy Jeffries, and a whole season to learn each other’s tendencies.

  73. Frank

    yehudi3000:
    Damn way too much for a 38 years old. we could get much beter players at that price

    Name one center who is better than Camby that we could get at that price with that short a commitment (2 years at a minimum). Freaking Brook Lopez is about to get a max contract.

  74. Robtachi

    Frank:
    Figure Lin will work on his 3point shot and be 35%. Kidd will prob shoot about the same. JR will shoot 40%. Novak will be 45%. Melo hopefully in high 30s. That’s not bad.

    Amazingly,I’m not sure this offense is a top 10 offense unless Linis really the second coming. But our defense should be a lot better with both Camby and Tyson, hopefully a healthy Jeffries, and a whole season to learn each other’s tendencies.

    I know it’s a tired narrative, but the culture of the organization really has changed. We have a defensive-minded coach who has cultivated a harassing borderline top-5 defense, improved with our recent moves. When you have a defense that can really frustrate an opponent and stifle runs, I can live with an offense that is not totally elite.

  75. johnlocke

    Lin is the key cog in all this, for sure — especially if he can become a better outside shooter. Melo in high 30s is optimistic, he has done that once for a whole season in his career (37% back in 2008). Defense and rebounding (which was a problem) should be improved. Miami Heat have Ray Allen, Mike Miller, James Jones and Chalmers right at 40% from three, and that doesn’t include the streaky Battier. We were 21st in three last season and also were 2nd in 3 point attempts, not a good recipe (we should get better by the subtraction of Fields and Douglas)…but unless Melo, Smith, and Lin show a big uptick on 3 pt shooting next year. Adding a solid 3pt shooter in Kidd helps, but would be good to get another shooter at the 2/3 spot like a Pietrus or Foye or Morrow…need more shooters to free up the paint, teams would just collapse in the paint against us last year.

    Frank:
    Figure Lin will work on his 3point shot and be 35%. Kidd will prob shoot about the same. JR will shoot 40%. Novak will be 45%. Melo hopefully in high 30s. That’s not bad.

    Amazingly,I’m not sure this offense is a top 10 offense unless Linis really the second coming. But our defense should be a lot better with both Camby and Tyson, hopefully a healthy Jeffries, and a whole season to learn each other’s tendencies.

  76. BigBlueAL

    I cant believe there are people here saying the Knicks gave up too much for Camby. SMFH

  77. yellowboy90

    The pkg for Camby is almost as good as the one for Howard. Gadz for Terrence Williams next?

  78. The leg accessory that is JVG

    yellowboy90: The pkg for Camby is almost as good as the one for Howard. Gadz for Terrence Williams next?

    lol good one.

  79. bockadoo

    Do we ever UNDERPAY for ANYTHING? Every deal we make seems desperate and we OVERPAY. I can’t wait for the day Dolan and his ridiculous culture is gone for good. The Melo deal was ridiculous. Paying Stat that $ without insurance was ridiculous. We overpayed Chandler. Too much for Kidd. Too much for Novak. Now this for Camby. Everything we do, no other team would have done. It’s like we operate as irresponsibly and planless as possible. We get good basketball minds like Walsh and Grunwald, and they are forced to make these deals only because the franchise is lucky enough to have all this money and Dolan says go ahead and do it. We would hve given away Shump for Nash. I’ve loved this team for years and will keep loving them, but I just wish we did things the right, respectable way. Our team is good, and if we are really lucky we can make some nice noise, but it just sucks how we do it. With the resources we’ve had, imagine if we had good instead of such inept ownership.

  80. Glew

    Robtachi: I know it’s a tired narrative, but the culture of the organization really has changed.We have a defensive-minded coach who has cultivated a harassing borderline top-5 defense, improved with our recent moves.When you have a defense that can really frustrate an opponent and stifle runs, I can live with an offense that is not totally elite.

    Couldn’t agree more and in a close defensive-type game with 10 seconds left down by one, there is no one I would rather have with the ball than Melo man. At worst he should be considered top 3 in the league.

  81. ess-dog

    This team is coming into shape. We still need a starting SG until Shump gets back. I like JR just fine, but he’s an ideal 6th man.

    I think there’s a real chance we match Fields. He’ll clearly be overpaid, but is he ultimately worse that Courtney Lee, Delfino or Pietrus? And those guys are probably out of our price range now, maybe not Pietrus, but Fields is much younger than the rest.

    So starters: Lin, JR (eventually Shump), Melo, Stat, Chandler.
    With a bench of: Kidd, Fields, Novak, Camby.

    Pretty solid 9 man rot., 10 when Shump is back. I would say a top 8 team, great bigs. A bit weak with the forward defense, but maybe the keep Jeffries too for just that reason?

    A lot of things would have to fall our way (including no injuries to starters) to have a shot at the ring though.

  82. BigBlueAL

    bockadoo:
    Do we ever UNDERPAY for ANYTHING?Every deal we make seems desperate and we OVERPAY.I can’t wait for the day Dolan and his ridiculous culture is gone for good.The Melo deal was ridiculous.Paying Stat that $ without insurance was ridiculous.We overpayed Chandler.Too much for Kidd.Too much for Novak.Now this for Camby.Everything we do, no other team would have done.It’s like we operate as irresponsibly and planless as possible.We get good basketball minds like Walsh and Grunwald, and they are forced to make these deals only because the franchise is lucky enough to have all this money and Dolan says go ahead and do it.We would hve given away Shump for Nash.I’ve loved this team for years and will keep loving them, but I just wish we did things the right, respectable way.Our team is good, and if we are really lucky we can make some nice noise, but it just sucks how we do it.With the resources we’ve had, imagine if we had good instead of such inept ownership.

    The right respectable way?? Like the Heat?? Like the Lakers and Celtics getting gifted their players?? Like the Nets who are gonna have a payroll even higher than the Knicks??

  83. ess-dog

    Oh and if JR doesn’t come back for some reason, we’re pretty screwed at SG. Probably looking at something like a Fields/Pietrus combo with some Kidd until Shump gets back…

  84. Z

    Frank: Lol- how intensely can you say- here’s our 2.8M offer?

    It’s not about intensity… It’s about the horse head that accompanies the $2.8 (Dolan sould consult the Nets owner for tips!)

  85. Robtachi

    bockadoo:
    Do we ever UNDERPAY for ANYTHING?Every deal we make seems desperate and we OVERPAY.I can’t wait for the day Dolan and his ridiculous culture is gone for good.The Melo deal was ridiculous.Paying Stat that $ without insurance was ridiculous.We overpayed Chandler.Too much for Kidd.Too much for Novak.Now this for Camby.Everything we do, no other team would have done.It’s like we operate as irresponsibly and planless as possible.We get good basketball minds like Walsh and Grunwald, and they are forced to make these deals only because the franchise is lucky enough to have all this money and Dolan says go ahead and do it.We would hve given away Shump for Nash.I’ve loved this team for years and will keep loving them, but I just wish we did things the right, respectable way.Our team is good, and if we are really lucky we can make some nice noise, but it just sucks how we do it.With the resources we’ve had, imagine if we had good instead of such inept ownership.

    Are you serious right now? Toronto is giving Fields 3yrs/$20mil. Hibbert is getting a max deal. Omer fucking Asik is getting more than Fields. Joe Johnson is making more than Melo. Chris Bosh makes exactly as much as LeBron James. Orlando is still paying Gilbert Arenas in excess of $20mil, it’s just off their cap. Same with Elton Brand and the Sixers. Is Rudy Gay really worth $16mil? How about this eye-opener: Tyson Chandler is making almost exactly the same amount as… wait for it… Emeka Okafor. Okafor is a nice complementary piece, while Chandler is the DPOY and backbone of this Knicks team. I could go on and on and on.

    Guys in professional sports get overpaid, constantly, by numerous organizations and GMs, particularly in the NBA, and sometimes it is somewhat justified by what those guys mean to the teams who sign them, sometimes it isn’t. This isn’t a Knicks problem, it’s…

  86. Z

    Honestly, these don’t seem like terrible contracts. Knicks are going to have a diverse portfolio. Lin is a buyer friendly contract. Novak is going to make less per year than Korver and Kapono and other 3 pt specialists. Kidd and Camby aren’t great considering their ages, but they have small enough per-year totals to be used to balance salary in a trade a year or two down the road.

    If Dolan doesn’t care about paying extra tax, is there really any reason not to match Fields? I still don’t have a perfect grasp of the apron and the mid-level exceptions that come and go with it, but if it’s just about tax, go Dolan go. (the new re-set date is February 2015– any good free agents due up that summer??)

  87. yehudi3000

    Frank: Name one center who is better than Camby that we could get at that price with that short a commitment (2 years at a minimum).Freaking Brook Lopez is about to get a max contract.

    i would rather get a SG and use amare on center- melo 4 somtimes

  88. Sebas94

    I’m sorry, but I feel like they gave up too much. I don’t mind losing the second rounders, but all three of the young guys? Bit much in m opinion. The knicks can’t resist giving up their homegrown players, i hate it. I get attached and they leave! Lol i sound like I just got dumped…

  89. StatsTeacher

    Broken record here: Brandon Rush shot over 45% from 3 pt last year. he is the fuckin’ answer for the last piece. Absent that, Dorell Wright or Courtney Lee. I am impressed with how Dolan has said, “Luxury Tax? What’s that again.” This ain’t Golden State! Try for those guys LONG before thinking about matching Fields.

  90. SeeWhyDee77

    Novak makin more than Camby is..wow. Welcome home Cambyman..we’ve missed u. Jorts will b sorely missed. Maybe we can bring in Lewis at the vet minimum to bring some more offense to that 2nd unit. Or at least find a cheap physical 4. Can’t say I’m upset at the way our bench is rounding out. Regardless of age, Camby and Kidd r what we need. As long as we don’t hafta rely on heavy minutes from them thy will prove to be invaluable. If Earl can discipline his game then we will have one of the deepest rosters in the league…kinda scary to have it all contingent on JR Smith ain’t it?

  91. Glew

    correct me if im wrong but i believe a team can not do sign and trades if they are over the apron

  92. BigBlueAL

    Sebas94:
    I’m sorry, but I feel like they gave up too much. I don’t mind losing the second rounders, but all three of the young guys? Bit much in m opinion. The knicks can’t resist giving up their homegrown players, i hate it. I get attached and they leave! Lol i sound like I just got dumped…

    You got attached to those 3 guys?? Really?? Get attached to Shump and Lin, Lee, Chandler and Gallo. Guys with actual NBA futures. Not those 3 players we just gave up for Camby.

  93. ABG

    Glew:
    correct me if im wrong but i believe a team can not do sign and trades if they are over the apron

    They can this year. Cant next year.

    As for whether we gave too much, this was the only way we could get Camby so the question becomes what else we could’ve gotten. I say it’s a good deal.

    The ability to throw out a Camby-Chandler-Melo-Shumpert-Smith defensive lineup against Lebron-Wade-Allen-Bosh-Anyone is worth it’s weight in crunch time. And yes, i may put Camby on Lebron in that circumstance.

  94. johnlocke

    Yeh, not a bad idea, too late now though. Our (next) priority should be (after signing JR) get a good shooter that can play 2/3 –bonus points if he/she can actually play defense. We need some cover for Melo / the 2G position.

    yehudi3000: i would rather get a SG and use amare on center- melo 4 somtimes

  95. The leg accessory that is JVG

    jon abbey: we are about to wildly underpay for JR Smith, if that helps.

    Smith must really like NY to take a decent pay cut. Its actually more amazing than Ray Allen taking less because Smith is young and really hasn’t made alot of money in the league thus far.

  96. Z

    StatsTeacher:
    Broken record here:Brandon Rush shot over 45% from 3 pt last year.he is the fuckin’ answer for the last piece.Absent that, Dorell Wright or Courtney Lee.I am impressed with how Dolan has said, “Luxury Tax?What’s that again.”This ain’t Golden State!Try for those guys LONG before thinking about matching Fields.

    Dolan paid $45,000,000 in luxury tax alone in 2007. (that was for a 23 win team featuring Eddy Curry, Steph Marbury, Zach Randolph, QRich, Crawford, JJ1, JJ2, and Malik Rose.) I think he’d consider matching that number if it guaranteed at least 24 wins next year.

    As for SG. Andy Rautins is itching to come home. (he could be had had for a mere $3.1 mil with tax!)

  97. bockadoo

    Couldn’t JR get $5-7 ml from somebody? Why hasn’t he been offered anything yet? Sorry if this is a dumb question…Would he really take $2.8 just to be on this team? Does he have that bad a reputation throughout the league? I would want him on this team more than Novak, Camby, Kidd, Fields…I think he’s gonna score 15 a game next year – stratch the floor and play good D.

  98. yellowboy90

    I guess rebuilding teams do not want JR and contending teams don’t have the money and the Knicks want S&T a player they want. Maybe I’m wrong?

  99. TheRant

    Robtachi: Are you serious right now? Toronto is giving Fields 3yrs/$20mil. Hibbert is getting a max deal. Omer fucking Asik is getting more than Fields. Joe Johnson is making more than Melo. Chris Bosh makes exactly as much as LeBron James. Orlando is still paying Gilbert Arenas in excess of $20mil, it’s just off their cap. Same with Elton Brand and the Sixers. Is Rudy Gay really worth $16mil? How about this eye-opener: Tyson Chandler is making almost exactly the same amount as… wait for it… Emeka Okafor. Okafor is a nice complementary piece, while Chandler is the DPOY and backbone of this Knicks team. I could go on and on and on.

    I think this is all true. The only thing we know about bad NBA contracts is that you notice the ones on your team and you don’t notice the other ones.

    And, answering your question, it seems Tyson Chandler and Jeremy Lin and Steve Novak were all on very reasonable deals this past year.

  100. mj1

    ephus:
    RE-POSTED from prior thread:

    Like everyone else who has posted, I am happy that Novak is coming back. If he is working on one skill this off-season, I hope it is learning to pick and pop. It is a much less athletic move than learning to curl off of a screen. Since Lambeer could do it, I figure it is within Novak’s reach. A Lin/Novak PnP would be a devastating play.

    A Novak/Melo PnP would also be effective. A mistake that the NYK made last season was never playing Melo and Novak on the same side. Melo was always strong side dribbling the ball and fighting through double teams while Novak was usually standing on the weak side waiting for the ball that usually never rotated to him when he and Melo were both in the game. In addition, the PnR using Novak to set screens then roll to a 3 pt spot would also be effective. Hopefully, during training camp and preseason Woody can work in some actual plays for Novak.

  101. The Infamous Cdiggy

    Sebas94:
    I’m sorry, but I feel like they gave up too much. I don’t mind losing the second rounders, but all three of the young guys? Bit much in m opinion. The knicks can’t resist giving up their homegrown players, i hate it. I get attached and they leave! Lol i sound like I just got dumped…

    I understand the base sentiment for trading young guys for old, but please look at the players in context instead of generalizing with past gaffes. Look at the three young homegrown guys individually: none of them have All-Star potential; none of them have even sixth-man potential, unless TD reverts back to ’10-’11, and he was horrible last year (I still think his shoulder had a lot to do with that).

    Let’s not get too carried away with the youth movement narrative.

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