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Friday, December 19, 2014

Knicks at Pacers: Game Four Preview and Game Thread with Pick and Roll Stats

With Tyson Chandler’s recent comments about sharing the ball, the storyline that has resurfaced pretty much every time the Knicks have struggled is with us once again: Are the Knicks deferring to Anthony too often and easily? Shouldn’t they run the pick and roll more consistently, especially with Anthony as the ball handler given his great success there?

According to Synergy, on the season, 22% of New York’s plays ended as a result of a pick and roll and 16% are isolations. Here are the numbers for games 1-3:

Game 1 –36.9% pick and roll, 13.6% isolation

Game 2 — 28% pick and roll, 9% isolation

Game 3 — 28.2% pick and roll, 14.6% isolation

In every game so far then, NY has utilized the pick and roll more often than in regular season and isolated less. At least according to Synergy. The problem with Synergy is that it only cares about the attempts that result in a shot, foul or turnover. Furthermore, a play is only counted as a pick and roll if the possession is used by either the pick and roll dribbler or the roll man. If the ball rotates out to a shooter who didn’t set the screen, the play is no longer labeled as a pick and roll. Even if the pass leads to a wide open three, that shot is tossed into the category of spot up along with any other perimeter shot that isn’t off the dribble.

Now, one thing you probably have noticed in this series is that the beautiful ball swings around the perimeter that often came off of pick and rolls are all but gone. This is because Indiana is treating New York exactly the same as they treated Miami in last year’s six game series (and, ironically, like teams started to treat Felton back in 10/11 as his shooting fell off  before the Anthony trade). Rather than doubling off a jump shooter, they are having Hibbert split the distance between the dribbler and the roll man while ball-handler’s defender is chasing the ball handler hard, forcing him to rush into a midrange (although open) midrange jumper, drive into Hibbert or reset. That means that the regular season numbers are likely deflated compared to those in this series — NY created a lot more uncounted shots off pick and roll in the regular season than they are in this series.

Here are Synergy’s pick and roll ball handler takes a jump shot numbers from games two and three, after NY stopped trying to drive into the Great Wall of Hibbert, along with numbers for those times pick and roll ball handlers did attack the rim:

GAME 2

pick and roll ball handler FG FGA TOs %scored
Shumpert 0 0 0 -
Prigioni 2 2 0 0%
Felton 1 3 0 33%
Anthony 2 5 0 40%
Smith 0 3 0 0%
Layup/Floater 3 6 - 50%

GAME 3

pick and roll ball handler FG FGA TOs %scored
Shumpert 1 5 0 20%
Prigioni 0 3 0 100%
Felton 0 3 3 0%
Anthony 2 2 0 100%
Smith 1 2 0 50%
Layup/Floater 1 4 - 25%

Synergy shows us already that there have really only been two great options out of the pick and roll in games two and three: Prigioni and Anthony. It also reveals how rare it has been for NY to attack the rim, and how ineffective it has been. Why though don’t these two effective players attack more often? I wondered if the answer lay in the way Synergy tracked the stats, so I decided to re-watch all of NY’s offensive plays in games one and two and count all the pick and rolls, including those that didn’t use a possession. Here are my results:

Game 2

pick and roll results reset Pass – FG make Pass – FG miss Shot – FG make Shot – FG miss Foul TO total successful total attempts %scored
Shumpert 5 1 0 0 0 0 0 1 6 17%
Prigioni 4 1 0 4 0 0 0 5 9 56%
Felton 3 2 3 2 2 1 0 5 13 38%
Anthony 5 3 1 2 4 0 0 5 15 33%
Smith 8 0 0 1 5 1 0 1 15 7%
Kidd 1 1 2 0 0 0 0 1 3 33%
TOTAL 26 8 6 9 11 2 0 18 61 30%
PROPORTION 43% 13% 10% 15% 18% 3% 0%

Game 3

pick and roll results reset Pass – FG make Pass – FG miss Shot – FG make Shot – FG miss Foul TO total successful total attempts %scored
Shumpert 0 1 0 1 5 0 0 2 7 29%
Prigioni 3 2 0 0 3 0 1 2 9 22%
Felton 8 2 0 1 5 0 3 3 19 16%
Anthony 5 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 6 17%
Smith 3 0 1 1 3 1 0 2 9 22%
Kidd 3 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 4 0%
TOTAL 22 5 2 4 16 1 4 10 54 19%
PROPORTION 41% 9% 4% 7% 30% 2% 7%

These numbers suggest that Woodson’s instructions between the two games was for everyone to be more aggressive off of screens. The percent of times ball handlers passed for a shot dropped from 23% to 13%, and the proportion of shots increased from 33% to 37%. This added aggression likely also resulted in the increase in turnover numbers. Felton in particular dribbled himself into traffic numerous times and ended up having a pass batted away by one of the Pacers’ long arms. Then, of course, guys missed shots when Knick dribblers did pass, and Shumpert is just not an effective shooter off the dribble.

As far as an explanation for why New York doesn’t utilize Anthony more in the pick and roll, it seems that Anthony played excessively conservatively out of the pick and roll last game. While he was the one who most needed to take the message of aggression to heart, Anthony reset the ball 83% of the time when he was the pick and roll ball handler in game three compared to only 33% of the time in game two.

The first thing that this all adds up to is that more than anything, New York will live and die by Anthony’s willingness and ability to hit midrange shots. George is a great defender. He fights over screens with gusto and effectively bothers Anthony with his length, even when he’s trailing him.

This is fool’s gold though because Hibbert is shading towards Anthony, and Indiana’s length and quickness makes the interior pass to Chandler nearly impossible. Again, Anthony will have to make plays from eight feet and out, regardless of how aggressively George plays him. His better option will remain playing aggressively off the pick and roll as the ball handler. Prigioni should be able to help as well, but with Woodson’s resistance to playing Prigioni big minutes and Prigioni’s general passivity on offense, Pablo alone will not solve New York’s problems.

Perhaps more important than any of this though is NY’s defense, particularly its ability to force turnovers. NY only had five shots in transition in game three compared to eleven in game two. They also gave up eleven fewer offensive rebounds in game two. However, these are effort stats. With locker room issues spilling over into the press, tonight’s game more than any other will reveal whether this team has the mental strength to respond to adversity.

After the game, you can catch our own Robert Silverman on the Radio Machine at 11:05 to either revel in our glorious triumph or wallow in a sea of misery. The link to listen is here.

341 comments on “Knicks at Pacers: Game Four Preview and Game Thread with Pick and Roll Stats

  1. BigBlueAL

    KMart starting for Prigs tonight. Might be a good thing Im going to miss most of the game tonight.

  2. thenamestsam

    BigBlueAL:
    KMart starting for Prigs tonight.Might be a good thing Im going to miss most of the game tonight.

    I do not care for this move. The positive I see is that Prigs can naturally slide into Kidd’s spot in the rotation and Kidd can move to a nice old folk’s home, or join me at the bar for a pint, or do anything else he feels like as long as it’s not playing in this game. The negatives are that we scored 71 points in the last game and we’re going to a starting lineup with less spacing, shooting and ball movement than the last one. Also I really hate as the higher seed and favorite before the series allowing the other team to dictate the style of play.

    Hopefully they put in enough stuff for this lineup at practice to keep it humming for a few minutes. Presumably JR for Kenyon will happen fairly early since they want to bring Kenyon back when Tyson goes out.

  3. maxwell_3g

    i have noticed that we were going with more p and r than the regular season. we have had less iso, but the iso’s have also been less effective. all year i watched us iso melo on the block or elbow and watch teams stupidly double team, allowing us to swing the ball and either launch 3’s or drive into the cracks of the rotating d. both the celts (with bass) and the pacers have refused to give us the obligatory double team, instead again choosing to have hibbert shade over towards melo. in other words, in the iso, they are forcing melo to beat them one on one with help instead or allowing us fluid offensive ball movement off of a double

  4. Knicks4Eva

    Ugh.
    Bad idea, unless we end up with more Prigioni in the 4th and more minutes for him in general.

  5. Hubert Davis

    This is so Woodson.

    He has an extra day to look at tape, study the numbers, and make a positive adjustment.

    And he decides to take off an effective, ball moving offensive player to go with a veteran who can rebound and play D.

    Frank Vogel is dying of laughter right now.

  6. Hubert Davis

    johnlocke:
    If Woodson and Dumb are synonyms I guess you’d be right. The Pacers scored 80 points last game. Our problem really isn’t defense. Our offense has been terrible. What I like about Copeland is that he is a diverse offensive player. He can drag West out to the three point line, he can post smaller players and he can take his defender off the dribble from close outs. We need some more offensive flexibility, stand-still shooters at the three point line (Prigs, Novak, Kidd) are really not that helpful when the Pacers are not leaving the three point line…

    Woodson is now officially a synonym for dumb.

  7. Hubert Davis

    Chris Herring’s twitter is worth a read right now.

    Woodson basically said he’s discounting Copeland’s success because it happened in April and this is the playoffs.

    Also, Vogel seemed to be very pleased that we were making no attempt to pull Hibbert away from the rim.

  8. Hubert Davis

    I’ll stop before I turn into dogrufus.

    Hey, sometimes all the evidence points to a negative outcome, you go that way anyway, and a massive anomaly occurs. Here’s hoping that happens tonight.

    I’m going to get drunk. Cheers, fellas.

  9. Kikuchiyo

    On the positive side, we learn a LOT about this team tonight. Should be interesting.

  10. Spree8nyk8

    I’m not going to jump all over this move, it’s easily reversible and it’s not like the pacers are the kind of team that is going to absolutely jump all over us early on. If it’s not working he can opt out of it, but it’s a good thing (especially for woodson) to offer at least a different look at things. I mean going big to match up with them could work out. And it’s not like we were scoring a ton before. I mean the predominant feeling amongst most were that the game has been lost on the offensive glass, so giving a shot at going big doesn’t seem all that bad, and another thing is giving JR the chance to play with Priggy might jump start him tonight. I’d rather see an adjustment tried now then waiting for a desperation move if we didn’t win tonight. Give it a look in the first quarter and see how it goes.

  11. Spree8nyk8

    Melo’s 1st foul is something weird I’ve noticed in the nba playoffs this season that I have simply not gotten. I’ve seen countless times where players have gotten up on other players so tightly that there is simply no way you are not going to foul, mostly at distances where the player being guarded is no threat at all to score. Why? I mean especially for a player like melo 2 mins into the game.

  12. Spree8nyk8

    Uggh ok well guess this lineup isn’t going to work, but not sure what lineup works when you don’t make wide open shots.

  13. MeloDrama

    Give up 81, score 70.

    Shove more D into lineup at expense of offense.

    Mike Woodson, everybody!

  14. Spree8nyk8

    I mean they are rebounding well, but not defending well, and the shots just aren’t going to be more open. What the hell has happened to our shooting touch?

  15. maxwell_3g

    i really hate the way we are playing. can chandler wither block the shot or take the charge, instead of leaning his arms in and getting called for the foul?

  16. Spree8nyk8

    maxwell_3g:
    i really hate the way we are playing.can chandler wither block the shot or take the charge, instead of leaning his arms in and getting called for the foul?

    honestly on that foul call I thought Chandler did a roy hibbert version of going straight up

  17. maxwell_3g

    we are sooo lucky the pacers are turnover machines….of course they are lucky we cant shoot

  18. AnonymousODG

    Spree8nyk8:
    I mean they are rebounding well, but not defending well, and the shots just aren’t going to be more open.What the hell has happened to our shooting touch?

    The pressure of IND’s defense. They did take MIA to 6 games last playoffs. But I’m liking the big lineup with Melo at SF. Seems to be working so far.

  19. d-mar

    Indiana really really sucks offensively, I’d be very disappointed if we didn’t win this series

  20. Spree8nyk8

    maxwell_3g:
    we are sooo lucky the pacers are turnover machines….of course they are lucky we cant shoot

    Not going to be fair to blame the Knicks for every Indy score and then give them no credit for Indy turnovers. Some have been unforced but I think after a few horrible plays early on they have clamped down sufficiently.

  21. maxwell_3g

    are we really going with martin all game tonight and no prigs?? i like martin, but i would not mind going small when hansborough is in the game with hibbert. make him guard melo at the 4

  22. Spree8nyk8

    Definitely didn’t see Martins insertion into the starting lineup leading to 3 first quarter assts

  23. Hubert Davis

    You know what? It is what it is.

    Woody is challenging his guys to beat them at their game. It’s not smart, and it flies in the face of evidence.

    But it could work. Because Indiana JUST ISN’T THAT GOOD.

    We can beat them 78-75 if Melo, Chandler, and JR have their best games.

  24. Juany8

    Glad I missed the first few minutes and got home in time to watch the Knicks run to catch up lol.

  25. Juany8

    JR logic: Big man on me on the perimeter? Let’s back up as far as possible and try to shoot over him. Also it seems that Woodson decided to start Martin so that he could bench Prigs entirely. Kidd has become entirely useless on offense, but by no means should a veteran be benched in favor of someone who’s playing well

  26. AnonymousODG

    Kidd is a complete moron. We had a 3-2 in transition and a foul to give and he just let’s them take it to the basket.

  27. Spree8nyk8

    That shot by Kidd just shows that he has completely lost faith in his shot entirely. Why he’s in there instead of Priggy is definitely mind blowing.

  28. max fisher-cohen Post author

    hilarious that woodson is benching the third best player of the series — prigioni — so he can play the worst player.

  29. DRed

    How is it possible for everyone to lose the ability to hit a shot at the same time? put in prigs and novak or cope. i cant watch these bricklayers

  30. Frank O.

    Melo drives, draws two guys and Tyson is standing there two feet from the basket waiting for a dish and an easy dunk. But Melo challenges the two bigs in front of him, trying to force and play and turns it over.
    Not to over emphasize this, but this is what I was talking about. Bully ball against two guys is silly when your 7-footer is open two feet from the basket.

  31. maxwell_3g

    max fisher-cohen:
    hilarious that woodson is benching the third best player of the series — prigioni — so he can play the worst player.

    heads nodding throughout knickerblogger nation

  32. Juany8

    We’re on pace to give up as many rebounds as last game. I give up, Knicks can’t even do the simple things, like making wide open shots, rebounding the ball, and not getting stupid technicals for no reason. JR Smith is more likely to be out of the league than getting a nice contract last year, who the fuck is going to want some sixth man who thinks he’s Allen Iverson.

  33. maxwell_3g

    what is amare doing?? why is he trying to start fights with hansborough and mahimi?? how about you go after the big dogs amare instead of trying to scrap with scrubs?

  34. Brian Cronin

    I have no internet or cable in my area, which is awesome. I am soooo happy I can’t watch the biggest game of the season.

  35. Juany8

    Also I’ve been very supportive of Woodson but he sucks at coaching. There is no excuse for benching Prigs so that Kidd can do literally nothing on offense.

  36. coyle022

    this 2 pg lineup has been our demise. 2 pgs + small ball Melo @ 4 = terrible coaching.

  37. Spree8nyk8

    When JR was taking that tech ft he looked more anxious than I’ve ever seen him. He looked like starks shooting 2 at the end of game 1 when the knicks choked.

  38. maxwell_3g

    Knicks4Eva:
    Grunwald should be on the phone to Phil right now.

    im annoyed with woody, but if the coach’s name doesnt end with “gundy” im not interested

  39. Juany8

    I can’t even describe how angry I am at Woodson right now for benching Prigs so he could keep playing Kidd more. There are probably people on this board who would have a bigger chance of making a shot than Kidd right now. Vogel is just coaching rings around Woodson and it’s totally pathetic. I have never seen a team go so far out of it’s way to sabotage its own chances of winning in the postseason. Even George Karl’s ridiculous lineups didn’t include players who hadn’t score in like 6 games.

  40. coyle022

    typical woodson. melo commits the foul, he thinks its on Amare. amare to the bench

  41. DRed

    Holy shit Jason. what does he have to do to get benched at this point? he’s missed 14 shots in a row. 14 fucking shots.

  42. Juany8

    DRed:
    Holy shit Jason. what does he have to do to get benched at this point? he’s missed 14 shots in a row. 14 fucking shots.

    Pretty sure he could fuck Woodson’s wife at MSG and Woodson would play him after he finished.

  43. maxwell_3g

    DRed:
    Holy shit Jason. what does he have to do to get benched at this point? he’s missed 14 shots in a row. 14 fucking shots.

    pics of woodson with a baby goat. thats the only explanation. actully, i wonder if kidd even wants to be out there at this point

  44. Spree8nyk8

    I mean it’s completely unexplainable for kidd to be on the floor right now. I mean you’d think priggy or shumpert weren’t an option. Priggy and Felton were so effective during our best stretches of the season together so I’m just at a loss. I mean does Woodson have ANY asst coaches? I mean shouldn’t ONE of them be in his ear a little bit?

  45. yellowboy90

    Can Andy Dufresne go ask Woody why he is being so obtuse and take Kidd out and play prigs and Cope.

  46. d-mar

    This is so depressing, Indy isn’t even playing that well and they’re about to be ahead by 11

  47. Juany8

    Changes the knicks need to make: Fire Woodson right now and upgrade Jason Kidd to head coach, forcing him off the floor. Would solve 2 of the biggest issues we’ve had this series. Or we could finish getting blown out then pretending we can win 3 in a row playing Jason Kidd major minutes.

  48. DRed

    kidd and JR have played 17 minutes and have on basket and one rebound. combined. they’re murdering our offense.

  49. Juany8

    I really can’t get over the fact that the Pacers can hit open 3’s better than the Knicks. Everything is going wrong this series all at once.

  50. nyk8806

    Juany8: Pretty sure he could fuck Woodson’s wife at MSG and Woodson would play him after he finished.

    He’s bending over the entire team’s playoff hopes right now, so why not give a courtesy reach around?

    Amazing how much improved our guard situation is compared to last year vs. the Heat and yet…..this.

  51. maxwell_3g

    i cant believe that they didnt give chandler a call there. and they give hibbert a whistle every time he falls

  52. Juany8

    Lol they refuse to call a third foul on Hibbert. Forgot to mention that the refs like fucking the Knicks

  53. flossy

    Juany8:
    Changes the knicks need to make: Fire Woodson right now and upgrade Jason Kidd to head coach, forcing him off the floor. Would solve 2 of the biggest issues we’ve had this series. Or we could finish getting blown out then pretending we can win 3 in a row playing Jason Kidd major minutes.

    Even Jason Kidd wouldn’t play Jason Kidd right now

  54. coyle022

    jesus christmas what is so difficult about Roy Hibbert to handle? It’s like this guy is Dikembe Mutumbo + Shaquille O’Neal with some David Robinson in there. Completely dominating the boards and paint defense

  55. AnonymousODG

    I have to say this about Hibbert and West. They really have a strong rebounding sense.

  56. DRed

    i dont mind physical basketball, but tyson needs to put that energy towards maybe getting a rebound

  57. AnonymousODG

    JR apparently really wants to be a Knick. After all, he is doing his best to make himself a complete untouchable for any other team in the playoffs.

    Also, that was such a stupid foul call.

  58. coyle022

    JR SMITH 1 of 8!!!!!! if he’s on any other team still standing does he even see the court? same goes to JKidd

  59. maxwell_3g

    how the hell did the mavs beat the heat 2 years ago?? kidd was anncient and chandler was clearly a head case. why would you blatantly goal tend a shot that may miss when you are down 9??

  60. Spree8nyk8

    We can’t shoot, we get ticky tack foul after ticky tack foul, when we aren’t getting actually outrebounded the ball is bounding 18 feet off the rim over the heads over everyone. I mean nothing is going right.

  61. d-mar

    PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOODY LEAVE JR ON THE BENCH FOR THE REST OF THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!

  62. AnonymousODG

    AnonymousODG:
    How is it that we have a 14-6 foul disparity through the 1st quarter???????

    I meant 1st half.

    Juany8:
    I don’t want JR back next half actually

    Woody is old school. And old school mentality dictates that JR has earned the right to shoot us directly out of these playoffs.

  63. yellowboy90

    Your playing zone on D there is no reason not to have Cope out there instead of jr. I’ll settle for Prigs woody.

  64. Juany8

    coyle022:
    JR SMITH 1 of 8!!!!!! if he’s on any other team still standing does he even see the court? same goes to JKidd

    Actually yes. The Thunder have the same fucking problem with Perkins and Derrick Fisher (who has admittedly played well these playoffs)

    Brooks is just as big a moron as Woodson.

  65. hegotgame

    That Jr Smith “offensive foul” had me a bit heated. But when hill hits that 3 of a completely broken play it pisses me off so damn much. Killing our vibe from all angles.

  66. AnonymousODG

    Shump is playing even worse than Kidd somehow. Doesn’t bother jumping for a rebound. Dribbles with no time on the shot clock. 0-4 shooting.

  67. maxwell_3g

    for the first time ever, i actually feel sorry for melo. he is not as good as some would claim, but he really has no shot to succeed. our other max player is worthless for the 3rd straight playoffs. our center is being dominated. melo’s partner in crime from denver has gone to hell at the worst possible time. our coach is a mental midget who is intent n playing a guy who hasnt scoreed in 7 games big minutes, and has managed to screw up another player’s rhtyhm and confidence in the meantime. our owner is the worst. melo would be better in denver at this point

  68. bocker84

    AnonymousODG:
    Shump is playing even worse than Kidd somehow.Doesn’t bother jumping for a rebound.Dribbles with no time on the shot clock.0-4 shooting.

    Our joke of a coach put him in cold after having him ice an injury for 259 hours. What do you expect? Honestly, all I’m doing is spending time trying to decide who I hate more – JR or Woody.

  69. Juany8

    Knicks training staff is the worst in the league. Is there any doubt of this? I mean is there a single other team who has every single player injured in the playoffs every year? How many times are we going to see Melo try to go one on 5 in a playoff series? This time he has a dislocated shoulder so he can’t go off for 40 points in a game to make it fun.

    Ironically, it ended up being Felton who outplayed every other point guard the Knicks could have had this season. What are the odds lol?

  70. coyle022

    just heard the stat. JR “I AM THE PIPE” Smith, a robust TWELVE (12) OF FIFTY (50) thus far in the series. Throw in JKidd’s genetic inclination to throw up bricks and there’s the series right there, Rebounding notwithstanding. It’s just a downer to watch this team succeed all season long, damn near sweep the Celtics, and then completely shit the bed against a good but very beatable Pacers team.

  71. maxwell_3g

    Juany8:
    Knicks training staff is the worst in the league. Is there any doubt of this? I mean is there a single other team who has every single player injured in the playoffs every year? How many times are we going to see Melo try to go one on 5 in a playoff series? This time he has a dislocated shoulder so he can’t go off for 40 points in a game to make it fun.

    Ironically, it ended up being Felton who outplayed every other point guard the Knicks could have had this season. What are the odds lol?

    and our response will be to come up with all sorts of far flung scenarios on how we can acquire chris paul to replace felton. falton has been great and should be back next year

  72. AnonymousODG

    maxwell_3g:
    for the first time ever, i actually feel sorry for melo.he is not as good as some would claim, but he really has no shot to succeed.our other max player is worthless for the 3rd straight playoffs.our center is being dominated. melo’s partner in crime from denver has gone to hell at the worst possible time. our coach is a mental midget who is intent n playing a guy who hasnt scoreed in 7 games big minutes, and has managed to screw up another player’s rhtyhm and confidence in the meantime.our owner is the worst.melo would be better in denver at this point

    Melo’s used to it. Don’t feel sorry for him.

    Feel sorry for JR. He completely shot himself out of the hearts and minds of NY Knicks’ fans in less than two weeks.

  73. Juany8

    I would take Barkley over Woodson as a coach right now. He’s pointing out all the stupid things Woodson are doing with total clarity

  74. nyk8806

    lalalalala if I pinch myself hard enough I will wake up from this nightmare where the Knicks have been kidnapped and replaced by lookalikes with expensive plastic surgery and makeup, and woody is a remote control Mr. Potatohead being controlled by Pritchard from his booth.

  75. Hubert Davis

    So now that his strategy failed spectacularly, does ANYONE have ANY faith that Woodson will scrap it at HT?

    I am 100% sure that he will go back to the same well.

    Thing that drives me nuts the most:

    Why go to a defensive lineup AND double constantly?!!

  76. flossy

    AnonymousODG: Melo’s used to it.Don’t feel sorry for him.

    Feel sorry for JR.He completely shot himself out of the hearts and minds of NY Knicks’ fans in less than two weeks.

    Yeah that honeymoon period is O-V-E-R

  77. maxwell_3g

    i must say that i would rather bow out to the oacers than be embarassed by the prima donna Heat team. seriously, with spoelstra planning for us, and woodson intent on playing kidd, and with JR unable to make a shot, how many would we score against the Heat? would we get to 65?

  78. maxwell_3g

    AnonymousODG: Melo’s used to it.Don’t feel sorry for him.

    Feel sorry for JR.He completely shot himself out of the hearts and minds of NY Knicks’ fans in less than two weeks.

    i normally cant stand melo. but i know he will get a big part of the blame for this debacle, and I honestly dont think this is on him. i dont think hes a top 5 players, but he’s def top 10. i would never have said that 1 year ago

  79. JK47

    Well, it was kind of a good season. I’m tired of watching the Pacers beat our brains in… I’m just gonna turn this off. Not sure what this team is gonna look like next year when all of these guys are a year older and a year more broken down.

    Sigh.

  80. yellowboy90

    After this Knicks win I would love for Jr to call out Chandler and see the media’s reaction.

  81. flossy

    Does every year have to end with some old-ass PG’s career crumbling to dust before our very eyes in the playoffs?

  82. Juany8

    maxwell_3g: and our response will be to come up with all sorts of far flung scenarios on how we can acquire chris paul to replace felton.falton has been great and should be back next year

    Chris Paul needs to join up with Melo. That way people will keep ignoring that Chris Paul has only ever won 2 playoff series in his career lol.

  83. maxwell_3g

    Juany8:
    I would take Barkley over Woodson as a coach right now. He’s pointing out all the stupid things Woodson are doing with total clarity

    lol. i noticed the same thing. and he would play shump too

  84. nyk8806

    btw we have exactly 0 fast break points and have actually given up 3 more points off of turnovers even though we have 2 fewer turnovers.

  85. coyle022

    having bad flashbacks to 1998. vaguely remember a 4-1 defeat. maybe next year we slip in to the finals as an 8 seed. this is, assuming, that we trade JR pipe for latrell sprewell immediately + allan houston comes out of retirement (again)

  86. yellowboy90

    The funny thing about Woody is that he is playing his big lineup to defend but is forced to zone. Yet if you use the zone you can hide your weaker defenders and play your better offensive players.

    Give me Cope, Prigs and Novak. Yes, even Novak atleast he won’t play patty cake like Kidd and Shump did. I still like you shump get well

  87. coyle022

    since game 3 of boston series Papa Pipe has shot a remarkable 20-77. 57 misses that’s just insane how do u not realize “hey I’ve missed 57 of my last 77 shots maybe I’ll pass up this contested turn-around Jumper?”

  88. Juany8

    Chandler doesn’t even bother rolling to the rim. Knicks need to see if they have a chance of getting value out of him this off season, this is the second playoffs in a row where he is totally worthless

  89. maxwell_3g

    i rhink vogel has some splaining to do…..when i see hill and augustin and paul shoot, i have no idea why they cant score more

  90. coyle022

    carmelo is saucy man. get him some damn help. Amare, Novak, at this point run out QRich. Let’s be real it cant get any worse than Pipe+Ghost of JKidd

  91. Juany8

    maxwell_3g:
    it feels like a miracle when they call hibbert for a foul

    Pacers are in for quite the rude awakening when Hibbert mysteriously stops being Dikembe Mutombo on defense becaause theyre actually calling fouls.

  92. coyle022

    he just doesnt get it. JR smith jacks up a 25 footer. rims out. we’re making George Hill look like Penny Fucking Hardaway right now

  93. maxwell_3g

    felotn is playing dumb all of a sudden. no need to be fouling hill and putting him on the line

  94. johnlocke

    Why is JR in the game? Why is Kidd in the game? Why do we have 3 non scorers and the struggling JR in the game? Why are our most capable jump shooters—prigs, Novak and cope not playing? Where is Amare? Why is Woodson such a stubborn fucking numbskull? Why? My kingdom for a made jumper.

  95. yellowboy90

    Melo has got to pass to Tyson down low regardless if Tyson misses he may pick up a foul. Pass the ball more to open your offense Melo!!!

  96. flossy

    Wow, JR has managed to go 1-9 in under 14 mins. I’m almost impressed by that volume of suck

  97. Juany8

    This is why you need to try for a full 48 minutes in games 1 and 3. You have a game where everything goes wrong at the same time and you take a loss, it happens to everyone. When you’ve already lost games by simply being out hustled, you don’t get any cushion for the games where George Hill is making heavily contested jumpers and Sam Young is making 3’s.

  98. coyle022

    he waits until halfway through the third quarter of game 4, down 2-1, as we’re getting our asses kicked by 18, to roll out Copeland. too late now woody

  99. johnlocke

    This game is over…the series is over. Blame Woody, blame JR, blame Kidd, blame Chandler….most of all….blame Woody. Now cope is in…sarcastic cheer

    flossy:
    Welp, Melo’s limping now.The fat lady is screaming directly into my ear.

  100. gmoney_nz

    ok 17 minutes before this season is essentially finished…just give the ball to melo and let him go hero from now till the finish – even if his efficiency drops he still scores for than Kidd and JR right?

    as for the other spots roll out your best defensive 4 – prigi, shump, kmart and tyson – leave it to Melo for the O cause no one else is helping

  101. Juany8

    Knicks have no intelligence. Hibbert goes out and they decide they’re just going to drive straight at the rim and jack it up like that actually works. You still have to get open….

  102. AnonymousODG

    Unbelievably, our transition defense has been the worst thing about our game. Yes, I know exactly how bad we’re shooting and rebounding.

  103. Robtachi

    I’m not a fan of oversimplification, but there’s no other way to say that the Knicks just look like shit right now.

  104. coyle022

    well it looks like the “FIRE WOODSON” chants will start to gain some traction. this thread is nothing compared to the bashing he is receiving on Twitter

  105. maxwell_3g

    i would almost just play JR at this point. realistically, our only chance is if good JR kiraculously returns for games 5, 6, and 7, so why not just keep him out there and hope he gets it back. and someone bring kidd some ensure and red jello and roll him in front of the tube for Golden Girls reruns.

  106. johnlocke

    Our lineups have been fucking stupid. Hubert called it, but I really didn’t think Woody was that dumb. We have to be just one of the lowest IQ teams in the playoffs. So much stupidity…and so many bricks

    Juany8:
    This is why you need to try for a full 48 minutes in games 1 and 3. You have a game where everything goes wrong at the same time and you take a loss, it happens to everyone. When you’ve already lost games by simply being out hustled, you don’t get any cushion for the games where George Hill is making heavily contested jumpers and Sam Young is making 3?s.

  107. maxwell_3g

    i can forgive woodson for some stupid coaching decisions…but i cant forgive the constant stupid doubling

  108. coyle022

    tyson chandler POINT BLANK alley oop and he muffs it. amnesty him ASAP if thats even possible at this point

  109. Juany8

    Well if it wasn’t obvious that Chandler was injured before, that lob confirmed it lol.

  110. nyk8806

    too bad dogrufus got banned, he would have “predicted” everything that happened tonight ;)

  111. Juany8

    Every time the Knicks have a nice run going, either Melo, JR, or Felton just runs in and takes a stupid shot. How fucking stupid is this team?

  112. Frank O.

    God. Get Jr out of the game. He is killing us.
    He’s making John Starks look like a rank amateur bricklayer

  113. coyle022

    Woodson Logic: we’re down 16 and cant buy a bucket so I bring in Jkidd for Melo

  114. johnlocke

    Real dumb…

    Juany8:
    Every time the Knicks have a nice run going, either Melo, JR, or Felton just runs in and takes a stupid shot. How fucking stupid is this team?

  115. Nick C.

    I can’t get over how this team can look like one of the best teams in the NBA for weeks at a time, if not longer, to this.

  116. hegotgame

    Did Reggie Miller give George Hill his lucky boxer shorts to wear tonight? wtf is going on?

  117. flossy

    How can Prigioni go from starting to playing less than 4 minutes in the course of ONE game?!

    How is it that Amar’e is on the verge of fouling out after 5 minutes?

  118. maxwell_3g

    the only thing giving me any hope is that if i were a pacer fan, i would be sweating this out, because the knicks shouldnt be this close

  119. Juany8

    Juany8:
    Every time the Knicks have a nice run going, either Melo, JR, or Felton just runs in and takes a stupid shot. How fucking stupid is this team?

    Lol as I just said. Whenever the Knicks do something good, they play stupid immediately after.

  120. nyk8806

    someone call the lakers and see if they want to trade coaches. Hell, call Michael Jordan/Clint Eastwood. An empty chair couldn’t be worse, right?

  121. Frank O.

    Okay. Time to show the grit that got the Knicks the 2nd seed.
    Something is going to happen that helps them rise.

  122. hoolahoop

    If the knicks ever need a big quarter, this is it.
    Everybody think positive thoughts.

  123. maxwell_3g

    johnlocke:
    He made his FTs. I like Amares aggressiveness…leave him in with Melo

    go ahead, keep him in. he has about 2 more minutes before he fouls out. team fouls kill you when points are at a premium

  124. DRed

    If Prigioni isn’t hurt Woodson needs to be fired. sticking with Earl the Bricklayer is unacceptable.

  125. d-mar

    Well it’s not over, but it will depend on someone other than Melo stepping up. And unfortunately, that’s JR, so despite my earlier comment, I think you have to leave him in and assume the law of averages kicks in. It’s about the only hope we have.

  126. Juany8

    You know what’s sad? If the Knicks were pulling a black sox and purposely throwing these games, they’d probably be playing better. When you’re in the 4th quarter of game 4 in the playoffs and your lineup is Chandler-Amare-Copeland-JR-Kidd, you’ve gone past the point where people will suspect you of anything except being a moron. I don’t even think we win game 5, if this game ends like this the Knicks are going to implode.

  127. maxwell_3g

    woodson really just brought in melo for cope. and then kidd gets lit up for a 3. unbelievable

  128. Juany8

    Just want to remind everyone that Lance Stephenson shot sub 30% on 3’s during the season. Of course he makes them against the Knicks

  129. flossy

    Amar’e is the invisible man on offense. JR Smith really is allergic to passing the ball to him

  130. Frank O.

    How is it that Melo thinks he can just push a guy down? A veteran team. Every time we get something going, they do something stupid to fuck up momentum

  131. johnlocke

    Felton, Melo, Amare, Cope Chandler please…no more Kidd, no more JR…I just can’t take it anymore.

  132. Juany8

    The Knicks 3 most disappointing players this postseason are Chandler, Kidd, and JR. So obviously they get to play all the minutes. Woodson actually changed up the lineups so he could knock Prigs out of the rotation. I really don’t think Jason Kidd even wants to be out there right now

  133. maxwell_3g

    i cant even defend woodson any more. this is pathetic. its so obvious that we have a negative sero percent chance of coming back with martin and kidd in there. i hate our coach all of a sudden. i want van gundy, either jeff or stan

  134. Matt Smith

    The best part about all of this is I will feel absolutely nothing but relief when JR walks in the offseason.

  135. d-mar

    WTF were Kidd and Melo doing there? That’s our offense?

    Why am I still watching this shit?

  136. Nick C.

    flossy:
    Amar’e is the invisible man on offense.JR Smith really is allergic to passing the ball to him

    Thanks. I thought I just wasn’t paying close attention and Amare really was involved in the offense.

  137. johnlocke

    Agreed. Regular season front runner…head case and dumb

    Matt Smith:
    The best part about all of this is I will feel absolutely nothing but relief when JR walks in the offseason.

  138. maxwell_3g

    another stupid three by melo. as soon as we get anything going, he insists on chucking it up

  139. thenoblefacehumper

    I am so confused right now. What is Kidd supposed to be bringing that Prigioni can’t? You can’t go 4-on-5 on every play and expect to win against even an above average team. This is one of the weirdest coaching games I’ve ever seen.

  140. nyk8806

    The spurs came back from a bigger hole against GS with less time last week…too bad JR isn’t Ginobli and Chandler isn’t Duncan.

  141. yellowboy90

    maxwell_3g:
    another stupid three by melo.as soon as we get anything going, he insists on chucking it up

    A wide open three off of penetration by Felton is not a bad shot.

  142. AnonymousODG

    yellowboy90: A wide open three off of penetration by Felton is not a bad shot.

    Particularly when he was 2/3 before that miss from the 3 pt line.

  143. Spree8nyk8

    I mean jesus christ not even a run? I mean do we have any fucking heart at all?

  144. maxwell_3g

    er: I guess you’d rather jr shoot

    he gets shot in his mind and rushes threes in those situations. i can tell by his stroke that they are not going in. that last one he just missed was fine though. its the rushed ones that are bad. but really, thats the least of our problems

  145. Juany8

    I give up. It’s been fun guys, but you don’t win in the playoffs when your second best player is Raymond Felton, and your third best player is on the bench for a guy who hasn’t scored this series. The Knicks medical staff is just pathetically bad at this point, Woodson has been exposed as an awful coach (and somehow still better than D’Antoni) and having Dolan watching over it all doesn’t exactly make me feel better. I’m gonna pull my inner dogrufus here and say that I don’t think the Knicks stand much of a chance in game 5, much less of winning the series (even with time still left in this game)

    Like the Finals last year, when one coach stubbornly refuses to use intelligence in favor of BEING A MOTHERFUCKING NUTHUGGING MORON (sorry I had to, Brooks pissed me off last year pretty badly as well) your team is both going to be handicapped against equal or greater opponents, and the team is eventually going to give up on him. Not going to watch much of game 5, the only reason I’m not putting money on a big Pacers win is because I would feel dirty betting against a team I liked.

  146. maxwell_3g

    wow, what do you know. cope hits a three. next time down he flares to the corner and west has to go with him….leading to an….aley oop for chandler and the fifth foul on hibbert!!! i hate woodson so much right now

  147. bidiong

    Nope, can’t okay fucking Copeland at all, he might hit threes. All you idiots bitching about defense, we need offense.

  148. flossy

    Did Mike Breen just announce the result of this game going into the commercial? Come on man, there is 2:48 left! I know we’ll never make up a 12 point deficit, but it’s the principle of the thing!

  149. maxwell_3g

    can we get kurt back and have him suit up for game 5. he could handle huibbert

  150. Juany8

    You know I’m starting to think Memphis is going to win it all. Even Lebron is going to have a hard time scoring against this defense if Wade is dead. People are giving too much credit to the bulls, they’re more injured than we are, they just don’t have a retarded coach at the helm.

  151. Frank O.

    maxwell_3g:
    melo essentially gave up by committing that foul.not cool

    He shot poorly again tonight and the shove there was pretty stupid.
    Defining game, indeed. They filed in the mental game, again

  152. Kikuchiyo

    Olajuwon, I mean Hibbert, really seems to intimidate the Knicks. And, speaking of 1995 flashbacks, every time Smith shoots I shout “PUT BLACKMAN IN ALREADY!”

  153. nyk8806

    hey, at least tyson had a double double and wasn’t Hibbert’s bitch for once. Too bad there’s so much shit wrong with this team that it didn’t matter.

  154. flossy

    Juany8:
    You know I’m starting to think Memphis is going to win it all. Even Lebron is going to have a hard time scoring against this defense if Wade is dead. People are giving too much credit to the bulls, they’re more injured than we are, they just don’t have a retarded coach at the helm.

    Heat are a lot better than the Knicks even without Wade. LeBron > Carmelo and Bosh > whoever the 2nd best player on the Knicks is (Felton…?)

  155. maxwell_3g

    i know im in the majority here, but JR isnt even on my shitlist for tonight. i thought he competed at least. of course, the first 8 pages of the list is woodson’s name written again and again, line after line. after that comes Chandler and Kidd, and then more pages of woodson

  156. gmoney_nz

    Novak – 9 secs 1/1 from 3pt land – Woody keeps proving hes an idiot through fouls forcing his hand

  157. maxwell_3g

    nyk8806:
    hey, at least tyson had a double double and wasn’t Hibbert’s bitch for once.Too bad there’s so much shit wrong with this team that it didn’t matter.

    of course, we are doubling hibbert every time and they never double chandler

  158. Frank O.

    What the hell is felton doing? He has dribble in the paint several times and picked up his dribble. Shades of Duhon.

  159. flossy

    Correct me if I’m wrong, but going 6/21 actually brings JR’s FG% for this series up, no?

  160. flossy

    Amar’e sitting all alone on the bench after the game. He knows this season is over.

  161. johnlocke

    We can’t shoot …so Woody puts in Martin in the starting lineup…then wonders why we started 1-10….this game was over in the 1st quarter. Kidd needs to be benched. Cope and Novak need to play more. Woody is not a good playoff coach…two years in a row now…idiotic adjustments or lack thereof. Season was fun while it lasted.

    maxwell_3g:
    i know im in the majority here, but JR isnt even on my shitlist for tonight.i thought he competed at least. of course, the first 8 pages of the list is woodson’s name written again and again, line after line.after that comes Chandler and Kidd, and then more pages of woodson

  162. Bison

    Ugh, Melo fouled out. The worst part of that is, I was actually expecting it to happen.

    I really want JR gone next season. Isn’t there some way to get Francisco Garcia? He should be old enough to suit the Knicks.

  163. nyk8806

    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of Vogel is that Prigioni should do nothing.”

  164. max fisher-cohen Post author

    I wouldn’t be surprised if Memphis beat Miami. I love that team. Conley and Gasol especially — just balanced players who will always contribute on both ends of the floor whether they’re featured scorers or always off the ball. Unlike w/r/t the pacers, Memphis actually DOES force you to play big, which is Miami’s greatest fear.

  165. smokinjoe

    If I hear that they have to address the rebounding issue one more time im gonna break something..can they not understand that they have to OUTSCORE these frigging guys?!!
    They will NEVER outrrebound this team..
    Truly sad to see the Knicks (Woodson) not TRUSTin the style of ball that won them 54 game this year..even Hill said it in postgame..we want to make them play our style of basketball..

  166. Bison

    yellowboy90:
    Novak and Cope scoring makes me want to cry like Arsenio from Harlem Nights.

    Well, to be fair, the Pacers were probably celebrating already.

  167. hoolahoop

    Juany8:
    You know I’m starting to think Memphis is going to win it all. Even Lebron is going to have a hard time scoring against this defense if Wade is dead. People are giving too much credit to the bulls, they’re more injured than we are, they just don’t have a retarded coach at the helm.

    Maybe the knicks make them look better than they are, but I can see Indiana winning the whole thing.

  168. er

    smokinjoe:
    If I hear that they have to address the rebounding issue one more time im gonna break something..can they not understand that they have to OUTSCORE these frigging guys?!!
    They will NEVER outrrebound this team..
    Truly sad to see the Knicks (Woodson) not TRUSTin the style of ball that won them 54 game this year..even Hill said it in postgame..we want to make them play our style of basketball..

    woodson is so stupid. Pablo doesnt play, novak gets garbage time mins and cope doesnt play till the second half. Oh yea Jr gets to play all game and J kidd gets plenty o burn. Yup sounds right.

  169. AnonymousODG

    nyk8806:
    hey, at least tyson had a double double and wasn’t Hibbert’s bitch for once.Too bad there’s so much shit wrong with this team that it didn’t matter.

    Chandler wasn’t the reason we lost tonight. He played well. Hibbert scored 6 points. Had 1 less offensive rebound than Chandler even. There were definitely a bunch of numbskull loose ball fouls, but he was far from the reason for this loss.

    Shump, Kidd, JR played terribly. Shump meandering with the ball and not grabbing loose balls. Kidd refusing to shoot and being too slow to rotate to the open 3 pt jump shooter. JR just completely losing the ability to score.

    Melo and Felton didn’t help matters by forcing it into the paint in high traffic. At this point though, I don’t blame Melo for not passing out of those situations anymore. Not even when there are three defenders. Nobody hit their open shots when Melo passed out (happened 3 times in the first half alone). Melo had a 40% chance of getting a foul call if he forced it. He had a 20% chance of another player actually hitting a god damn wide open shot.

    Of course, enough has been said about Woodson. Prigs only played 3 minutes. The Knicks starting point guard of your last 20+ games, was benched. And Novak and Cope (3/4 from the 3 pt line) got garbage minutes when JR was 2/12 for like the sixth game in a row.

  170. er

    hoolahoop: Maybe the knicks make them look better than they are, but I can see Indiana winning the whole thing.

    no the other teams have smarter coaches. And i dont think the role players will be getting outplayed by lance stephenson and george hill

  171. Brian Cronin

    Yeah, the Cope/Novak stuff is probably the most aggravating aspect of the game. Well, next to the Kidd/Prigs thing, of course.

  172. nicos

    I can understand still playing JR heavy minutes but Kidd playing over Prigs is just crazy. Also, there’s no real point in playing Amar’e if you’re not going to at least make an attempt to get him the ball- he scored on a nice hook the one time they got him the ball in the post and had a good look at a 14-footer late in the clock that didn’t go down on the other. Hopefully JR going 6-12 after starting 1-10 helps him break out of his slump. Amazingly, I still think the Knicks will find a way to win game five and have a shot to win the series- if they control their defensive backboard they win but it looks very doubtful they can do that three games in a row.

  173. d-mar

    If we had lost 2 close ones in Indiana, I would have a tiny shred of hope, but they kicked our ass in 3 of the 4 games. There is no chance that we suddenly figure it out and win 3 in a row the way we’re playing.

  174. nyk8806

    It seems like the team is just generally low on confidence right now–they’re not even hitting many of the shots they normally would be. That leads to a downward spiral, unfortunately. Hope the MSG crowd can ignite something in Game 5. If not, just seal the locker room after the game, pump it full of gas, as light a match.

  175. Juany8

    The reason I say Memphis and not the Pacers is because Memphis is actually a good team. The Pacers are playing out of their asses on offense and yet still doing awful, they’re not going to dominate even Miami on the boards and thus will not be able to score enough. Problem is I don’t think Miami is either, they’re having trouble with a totally crippled Chicago team that plays negative defensive players at 2 positions (Boozer and Robinson). Memphis is incredible defensively and unlike David West, there is no serious hope that Battier can hold his own against him.

  176. AnonymousODG

    d-mar:
    If we had lost 2 close ones in Indiana, I would have a tiny shred of hope, but they kicked our ass in 3 of the 4 games. There is no chance that we suddenly figure it out and win 3 in a row the way we’re playing.

    Not to sound unrealistically optimistic, but I’d rather lose big then get closely eked out. The former means adjustments need to be made (which there were in the Game 2 win, ffs). And I’d like to think the obvious will smack Woodson directly in the face.

    Woodson went unwillingly with a big lineup and kept us in a tight ballgame for nearly the entire first quarter despite our terrible shooting. It was really clicking and we even went on an 11-3 run. Then he brought back double PGs and promptly let them go up by 7 to close it out. Then he basically forgot about the big lineup concept and kept throwing more double PG lineups in there instead of bringing in Shump (who was kept out of there for an interminably long amount of time), and never thinking to bring Copeland or Novak.

    The double PG lineup wouldn’t be so bad though… if it had included Prigs who is a quicker defender and an actual outside threat. But it didn’t. Woodson has to see this. JR is shooting us out of these playoffs. And Kidd is defending us out of these playoffs. It’s as simple as that.

  177. MarvsTeeth

    To quote myself from this morning:

    It is extremely disappointing to go down to a lesser foe, which the Pacers are, in a macro sense.

    But at the end of the day, playoff basketball isn’t about the best NBA team winning. It is about making adjustments and tailoring your game to the other team’s weaknesses during a seven-game series. I will feel bad as a fan if we lose – like something that we all deserved was taken away from us. But we can’t say the Pacers were worse. So far they have definitely been the better team. Hats off to them. Whether it is coaching, smarts, composure, heart, or whatever, they have showed up, and outside of a 30-2 run, the Knicks haven’t.

    It hasn’t been about refs or freakish plays or anything. The Knicks have just been outplayed. The nice thing about a seven game series is that it becomes awfully tough to find excuses. We can at least rest assured that whatever the result of this series, we will know what we have in this team. Is it a team with the skills and composure and coaching to adjust and triumph, as their supposed regular season performance would indicate? Or is it a team that fell apart strategically/tactically/physically when it mattered most?

    I guess I am taking a rambling path to saying that there is not more space for over- or under-achievement. The playoffs define what you are. You achieve what you deserve in the playoffs. This isn’t one-and-done like the NCAA or the NFL. We will know what we have in this team pretty soon.

    —————————————-
    This team is better than the Knicks. Simple as that. The Knicks still have a 10% chance of pulling this series out, but barring that statistical improbability, the Knicks got what they deserved. It’s a shame…umm..fire Woodson?

  178. d-mar

    Is there an expression for the opposite of “pushing all of the right buttons”? Because it seemed like every move Woody made in this game was the wrong one.

  179. MarvsTeeth

    Hypothetical question:

    If we had Phil Jackson coaching the Knicks, how far would we have gotten this season? What about Pop?

  180. AnonymousODG

    Post-game report has Woodson retorting to a question about Prigs’ lower minutes, “I’m not going to sit here and explain it.” WTH else are you suppose to do in a post-game conference you dumb f@ck?

  181. thenoblefacehumper

    AnonymousODG:
    Post-game report has Woodson retorting to a question about Prigs’ lower minutes, “I’m not going to sit here and explain it.”WTH else are you suppose to do in a post-game conference you dumb f@ck?

    What the hell? At least attempt to defend your horrible fucking decisions. This is just bizarre.

  182. AnonymousODG

    Anybody else remember when Kidd let a 3 on 2 Pacer fastbreak run its course to the hoop without fouling, even though we had a foul to give? I do. It capped off that 9-2 run at the end of the first quarter.

    Anybody else know what Prigs always does when the other team has a fastbreak developing? Quickly foul, correct.

    And, no, I still haven’t gotten over that.

  183. mcliff05

    What can I say that hasn’t already been said. The whole game I was scratching my head or pulling out tufts of hair from my scalp. The double teaming played right into their hands. Everytime (or I should say both times) Cope got in we cut the lead. Seeing Prigs buried on the bench was maddeningly unfair. And I don’t care what the box score says Chandler was a BUM!

    I started the game frustrated at the refs again for letting Hibbert unequivocally foul by bringing his arms down and seeing Melo and JR get the softest Donahee-esque offensive foul calls, but honestly this team has so little heart. They are petulant and weak-willed in addition to lacking championship caliber talent.

    And with all that we need to win game 5 at home to show me that they at least have some pride.

  184. DRed

    We outshot the Pacers tonight, Tyson actually got some rebounds, we stopped the offensive juggernaut that is Roy Hibbert and we still got killed. That was seriously pathetic. awfu, awful job by Woodson.

  185. maxwell_3g

    max fisher-cohen:
    I wouldn’t be surprised if Memphis beat Miami. I love that team. Conley and Gasol especially — just balanced players who will always contribute on both ends of the floor whether they’re featured scorers or always off the ball. Unlike w/r/t the pacers, Memphis actually DOES force you to play big, which is Miami’s greatest fear.

    want to bash your forehead with your palms?? we got rid of randolphafter a winnign start to the season (a move that I was in full support of at the time) to free up cap room so that we could sign amare as a free agent….our franchise is perennially fucked

  186. er

    DRed:
    We outshot the Pacers tonight, Tyson actually got some rebounds, we stopped the offensive juggernaut that is Roy Hibbert and we still got killed.That was seriously pathetic. awfu, awful job by Woodson.

    the offensive juggernaut george hill got loose tho

  187. maxwell_3g

    MarvsTeeth:
    Hypothetical question:

    If we had Phil Jackson coaching the Knicks, how far would we have gotten this season? What about Pop?

    2 seperate answers. i would MUCH rather have pop than Phil Jax at this point….we dont want Phil Jackson

  188. Hubert Davis

    MarvsTeeth:
    Hypothetical question:

    If we had Phil Jackson coaching the Knicks, how far would we have gotten this season? What about Pop?

    If any one of 10,000 NBA bloggers were coaching the Knicks this series, we’d have done better.

    If THCJ and his “I want to see an NBA team play without a coach” theory was coaching the Knicks, we’d have done better.

    You know what the worst part about W*****n is?

    HE WILL START THE SAME LINEUP FOR GAME 5!

    You know it, I know it, fucking Martians know.

    If that man had any honor he would commit hari kari tonight.

    Knickerblogger would make a fortune if they sold T-Shirts with this design except instead of “coach” it said “idiot”.

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/article/media_slots/photos/000/742/272/Such-a-luscious-goat.-Image-via-ahahnmsg-on-Instagram_original.jpg%3F1361914071&imgrefurl=http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1545353-knicks-coach-mike-woodson-wears-t-shirt-destined-to-make-every-nba-fan-jealous&h=630&w=630&sz=67&tbnid=g3smXdfu01egnM:&tbnh=97&tbnw=97&zoom=1&usg=__RNFcAgAuGJkN69CablxD6HSI0cI=&docid=BZieCJfkyjXHQM&sa=X&ei=NvWSUcvRAcu40AHIxYDAAg&ved=0CEMQ9QEwAQ&dur=632

  189. AnonymousODG

    I don’t have a twitter account, but if I did, I’d be posting that t-shirt with that “Idiot” label everywhere I could. Along with some appropriate captions like, “Has starting point guard who won his first 13 starts in a row. Plays him only 3 minutes in most important game of playoffs.”

    If somebody could take the torch and start this meme, all of Knicksdom would thank you for giving us a voice.

  190. MeloDrama

    Juany8:
    The reason I say Memphis and not the Pacers is because Memphis is actually a good team. The Pacers are playing out of their asses on offense and yet still doing awful, they’re not going to dominate even Miami on the boards and thus will not be able to score enough. Problem is I don’t think Miami is either, they’re having trouble with a totally crippled Chicago team that plays negative defensive players at 2 positions (Boozer and Robinson). Memphis is incredible defensively and unlike David West, there is no serious hope that Battier can hold his own against him.

    They’ve got no real shot at Miami. Maybe the Heat let it go 6 if Wade’s gimpy. They got it to 6 last year with Bosh out. Miami is going to nuke them in transition the way Indiana turns it over, and Hibbert is going to have to follow Bosh out the middle. Their goose is cooked.

  191. Robtachi

    Come on, just lock up the title for Miami already. The rest is just unimportant details.

  192. Owen

    Just finished watching it. Depressing. No worse feeling than taping a game and then getting a stinker. Have to agree with the consensus. Don’t understand the personnel changes. Liked how Chandler played although he could have amped it up a little bit. Wish the threes had fallen. But that’s what the Pacers do well, defend the three. That’s been the difference.

    And yeah, not MVP stuff from Carmelo. I give this round to Paul George too, just on defense alone….

  193. maxwell_3g

    Vogel on the Pacers and finding out about the change in the knicks starting lineup- “the beauty of the team is that we font really adjust to other teams.”
    In other words, “woodson is an idiot and i have owned him all series”

  194. Owen

    Vogel is a good coach. And tip of the hat to the Pacers FO. Done a good job the last few years building an excellent team.

  195. Juany8

    Owen:
    Just finished watching it. Depressing. No worse feeling than taping a game and then getting a stinker. Have to agree with the consensus. Don’t understand the personnel changes. Liked how Chandler played although he could have amped it up a little bit. Wish the threes had fallen. But that’s what the Pacers do well, defend the three. That’s been the difference.

    And yeah, not MVP stuff from Carmelo. I give this round to Paul George too, just on defense alone….

    Shame Tyson Chandler couldn’t outplay Mahini. Wonder how Hibbert feels about Chandler being on the first all defense team and all star teams. It’s like Hakeem and Robinson back in 95, only neither of these guys is nearly as good. It would have been really cool if Tyson Chandler could have maybe gotten more than 3 defensive rebounds this game, but it’s cool that he had 7 offensive rebounds on a night where the Knicks missed 56 shots.

  196. steveoh

    Woodson always had a reputation of being outcoached in Atlanta.

    Then we saw him last year, refusing to change anything in his offensive scheme (like ball movement) the playoffs when Boston overplayed Melo.

    And this year? No explanation needed.

    This organization has a lot of self-imposed limitations, beginning at the top, rolling through the coaches and players and ending with the medical staff. You get the destiny you ask for.

  197. Juany8

    Just realized the very sad fact that in one minute, Novak has outscored Jason Kidd this entire series. He also outscored Kidd, Kenyon Martin, and Shumpert combined. Wonder if that had anything to do with the lousy scoring output

  198. Brian Cronin

    Damn, Juany, that’s a crazy ass stat.

    Also, from ESPN’s Stats crew:

    In his last 8 games, Jason Kidd has 0 Pts on 0-16 FG and 0-10 3-pt FG in 177 minutes.

  199. mr.JayP

    Woodson is what we thought he was. a good regular season coach that cant get you deep in the playoffs. he showed this in ATL. no surprise here.

  200. smokinjoe

    Juany8:
    The reason I say Memphis and not the Pacers is because Memphis is actually a good team. The Pacers are playing out of their asses on offense and yet still doing awful, they’re not going to dominate even Miami on the boards and thus will not be able to score enough. Problem is I don’t think Miami is either, they’re having trouble with a totally crippled Chicago team that plays negative defensive players at 2 positions (Boozer and Robinson). Memphis is incredible defensively and unlike David West, there is no serious hope that Battier can hold his own against him.

    Watched the Grizzlies come back from I think 17 down at one point..over almost the whole 2nd half..damn they are good..just solid smart and steady..everything the Knicks arent..fun to watch when things are going well..but not much when tested..thats what hurts..actually not as much as them winning game 5 and then slowly wheezing out of this season in game 6 while crushing our collective ability to even like this team..correction. .assemblage of entitled whiners led by a stubborn goatee..yes im bitter..after watching this whole season..just a really crappy way to go out

  201. Brian Cronin

    Also, seriously, a little bit of silver lining in all of the gray is that at least the Knicks get to keep JR. As annoying as he can be, you’d still rather have him on the team than not have him on the team. Besides, I think playoff success is a bit overrated. Yes, it is important, but come on, you don’t just write a guy off because he has a bad playoffs. JR has shown himself to be a good player. And the 2013-14 Knicks are better if he is a member of the team.

  202. yellowboy90

    Brian Cronin:
    Damn, Juany, that’s a crazy ass stat.

    Also, from ESPN’s Stats crew:

    Add on to that the open looks he passes on to create a worst shot for others. He should not be on the floor at all.

    The this game he plays as the back up pg. Woody why.

  203. mr.JayP

    yellowboy90: Add on to that the open looks he passes on to create a worst shot for others. He should not be on the floor at all.

    The this game he plays as the back up pg. Woody why.

    i hate to bring this up but, i wonder how much of this sucky-ness is based off the fact that woody ran him to the ground when felton was out. he did not seem the same after that extended period of play…

  204. BigBlueAL

    Looks like I didnt miss much. Not surprised Woodson basically shitted the bed with his decisions tonight.

    Just hope they win Game 5. I can accept losing to the Pacers in 6 games, hell at this point I wont even be mad about it. But losing in 5 which means getting eliminated at home would be real disappointing.

  205. d-mar

    While I doubt the Knicks can turn this series around at this point, if they do win game 5, then all the pressure will be on the Pacers in game 6, much more than they’ve faced in any game so far in this series.

  206. JK47

    Three minutes for Pablo Prigioni is just inexplicable. Especially considering the moribund play of all the other guards. Woodson really deserves all the vitriol that is coming his way.

    It’s weird, I don’t really feel deflated after this loss. It’s like a burden has been lifted. I don’t have to kid myself that this team is a contender anymore.

    Let’s be brutally honest– this iteration of the Knicks has probably reached its peak. Next year’s roster is probably going to be pretty much the same as this year’s, except with another year of wear and tear on it. There is exactly one player on the team with room to improve– Iman Shumpert. Meanwhile, Amar’e Stoudemire, Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby and Steve Novak represent about $34M of dead salary cap space for the next two seasons.

    This is not a great time to be a Knick fan.

  207. mr.JayP

    JK47:
    Three minutes for Pablo Prigioni is just inexplicable.Especially considering the moribund play of all the other guards.Woodson really deserves all the vitriol that is coming his way.

    It’s weird, I don’t really feel deflated after this loss.It’s like a burden has been lifted.I don’t have to kid myself that this team is a contender anymore.

    Let’s be brutally honest– this iteration of the Knicks has probably reached its peak.Next year’s roster is probably going to be pretty much the same as this year’s, except with another year of wear and tear on it.There is exactly one player on the team with room to improve– Iman Shumpert.Meanwhile, Amar’e Stoudemire, Jason Kidd, Marcus Camby and Steve Novak represent about $34M of dead salary cap space for the next two seasons.

    This is not a great time to be a Knick fan.

    it doesnt matter. Dolan will milk this combo dry. the team will still be a “pretender”. The seats will still be full.

    This new york team is eerily similar to the Atlanta hawks of prior.

  208. smokinjoe

    d-mar:
    While I doubt the Knicks can turn this series around at this point, if they do win game 5, then all the pressure will be on the Pacers in game 6, much more than they’ve faced in any game so far in this series.

    Did you see JR and Melos postgame pressers? Their hearts aint in it..time to pack it in..only questions are who sticks around next year..

  209. smokinjoe

    Kikuchiyo:
    On the positive side, we learn a LOT about this team tonight. Should be interesting.

    House of cards..thats what I learned tonight..

  210. ruruland

    Owen:
    Liked how Chandler played although he could have amped it up a little bit.

    You imagine if I came on here and said I liked the way Carmelo Anthony played tonight?

    3 defensive rebounds in 40 minutes !!!!!

    But oh yeah, those offensive rebounds that are created by his absolutely lack of utility anywhere outside of the restricted area combined with the penetration of other players CREATING WIDE OPEN OPPORTUNITIES on the weakside, seriously a game-changer.

    You got to be fucking kidding me.

    Hey, three blocked shots tonight! That’s insanely impressive for one of the league’s worst rim protectors.

    If Tyson Chandler cannot defend Roy Hibbert 1-1, exposing the entire team to offensive rebounds, he ain’t worth anything close to $13, no matter how well he games advanced metrics because of a COMPLETE DEARTH OF OFFENSIVE ABILITY!!!

  211. ruruland

    When a team is able to limit the Knicks high pnr, Tyson Chandler becomes a very average basketball player, maybe worse.

    He really has very little offensive impact on the game.

    The one thing he does well defensively is overhelp on shooters, and that exposes the interior.

    His inability to attempt an open 15-foot jump shot is the cause of at least 6 turnovers this series (where he attempts to pass to a double-teamed Melo).

    Roy Hibbert has totally exposed Tyson Chandler. And no, it’s not the neck, these are issues Chandler has had all season!

    Copeland should start at center.

  212. MeloDrama

    ruruland:
    When a team is able to limit the Knicks high pnr, Tyson Chandler becomes a very average basketball player, maybe worse.

    He really has very little offensive impact on the game.

    The one thing he does well defensively is overhelp on shooters, and that exposes the interior.

    His inability to attempt an open 15-foot jump shot is the cause of at least 6 turnovers this series (where he attempts to pass to a double-teamed Melo).

    Roy Hibbert has totally exposed Tyson Chandler. And no, it’s not the neck, these are issues Chandler has had all season!

    Copeland should start at center.

    I think the neck is killing Chandler’s game, especially in terms of rebounding, and the fact that Hibbert can pretty much completely ignore him these days. The P&R evaluation is valid but he’s a better player than this. These issues were limiting him in the regular season as well, so its not just great D.

    Copeland should start at center cause they’re desperate. They should have gone small late in either game, just to see if they could spark something. I am still baffled that you basically broke Indiana the final regular season matchup by going small and pulling Hibbert out and then you refuse to even TRY it when all else is failing.

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