Knicks @ Nets Previews & Game Thread
December 11th, 2012 by Jim Cavan | @JPCavan | Comments | Permalink |
Mike and Robert were both invited aboard the Mothership this afternoon to give their thoughts on the Nets-Knicks rivalry, fashion, architecture, and a whole bunch of other shit I don’t understand:
1. Knicks or Nets: Better leading man?
Mike Kurylo, KnickerBlogger: Knicks. The Knicks have two leading men who surpass any on Brooklyn’s roster. Carmelo Anthony is sporting the best PER of his career (24.0) while Tyson Chandler is the reigning Defensive Player of the Year. Whether you choose Brook Lopez or Deron — both have a claim for Nets’ best player — they are one tier down from the Knicks’ duo.
Robert Silverman, KnickerBlogger: Knicks. If owner James Dolan hadn’t upped the ante in 2011, both stars easily could’ve found themselves in the other borough, adding some serious “What if?” juice to this comparison. But by playing defense and sharing the rock in a manner that must haunt George Karl’s fevered dreams, Melo tops Deron’s career-low .392 shooting percentage and paltry 11.4 PPG over the last seven games.
Read the whole thing here and then make me an omelet. Please.
Meanwhile, Devin Kharpertian of The Brooklyn Game (formerly Nets Are Scorching) was kind enough to invite me over to get my take on a few burning questions… Right before he rips my heart out and puts it in a blender.
Devin: On a scale of 1-10, how confident are you in the Knicks winning tonight’s game now that we know Brook Lopez will sit?
Jim: A 19. How’s that?
In all seriousness, Lopez’s distinguishing threat — an intermittently feathery touch from midrange — is one Chandler isn’t forced to deal with often. That ability to draw Tyson out of the paint is itself reason enough to be glad that Brook ices his pixie feeler one more night. You could certainly argue that Chandler’s superlative performance back in November (28 point and 10 rebounds, including seven on the offensive end) would’ve gone even more gangbusters had it been up to Blatche or Evans to body up the Knicks’ bearded linchpin. For all his faults — and in this diluted era of franchise-driving pivots, no center is without one — Lopez still wields an admirable skill set that can pose problems for opposing defenders and defenses. So please, by all means, attend that Lena Dunham book proposal reading, Brook.
This will also double as your game thread. As always, have fun, be civil, and make fun of Reggie Evans as often as possible. Let’s roll.
Beyond his work for KnickerBlogger, Jim is a contributor to the New York Times Off the Dribble NBA blog, ESPN.com, and The Classical. He is currently working on a biography of Robert Silverman, titled "Clownin' and Astoundin.'" Follow him on Twitter @JPCavan.
You got away with one, Jim. Knicks actually have the 8th EASIEST schedule, per basketball reference. Either there is another source I should be using or you accidentally hit the sort key twice!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2013.html
a lil Shump
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcxpcAZqMo8
What kind of rim defender is Blatche?
Kidd Kidd!
This defense is offensive.
defensive kismatches every time down. who is kidd supposed to be guarding? joe johnson?
Knicks playing with the type of intensity you see in a pre-season game.
What an awful start, it honestly looks like they dont give a crap tonight.
This is embarrassing so far.
our defense is struggling but they are making shots as well. our offense looks offense and they arent doing anything special. move the ball jr!!!
What the fuck is going on here?
What shots are they making?? Everything for the most part have been from 5-10 feet.
White in early
OMG to who Felton?
these refs!!! they are really going to just lets evans jump into people and then call the defense for the foul?
and then they call that charge!!! unbelievable
you are right. i was just trying to make the point that our offense was awful. but yes, our defense has been too
What is up with all this needless double teaming???
we double team perimeter players too much
Not even worried about this bad start. Kinda sad also that Melo doesn’t even get the benefit of the doubt for the streetball rule, “no blood no foul”.
The Felton Double on Wiliiams against WHite was pointless. WHite has 2-3 inches and the size.
Double-teaming both Williams and Johnson is definitely not a move that worked out.
Hey, they finally called a foul on the Nets.
So I really like Prigioni, he’s a good defensive player and does a good job of at least starting off sets. This start sucks but it’s early enough that it doesn’t mean too much. If they’re still down 13+ at the half it’s time to be worried
Melo playing Center now.
Melo playing the 5. Don’t know how I feel about it. Also i hate this constant music
Just get it to single digits by halftime and all will be well.
Somehow the Knicks went up playing Melo at the 5. Crazy…
Nets just living in the paint.
So I’m gonna go on record and say Melo gets at least 40% on 3′s for the season barring injuries. It’s not just a hot streak, he used to really rush his spot off shots so that they weren’t that much better than his 3′s off the dribble. He has a much more smooth and consistent stroke this season, and he’s getting a ton of open looks.
Another Nets layup. If I had a drink for every Nets layup so far Id be wasted out of my mind lol
Melo trying his best to will the Knicks through this abysmal first couple quarters.
That play by Felton is EXACTLY what me and Jon Abbey mean when we talk about “Kobe assists” (should be Rose assists if anything). Felton didn’t have a passing lane so he just threw it up there since Chandler had an excellent chance of getting the rebound.
He tried to do it again! This time it happened to go in, but if it hadn’t Chandler gets the tip for sure.
Finally a flip by Felton goes in.
If Felton doesn’t realize how well Chandler is positioned and is indeed gunning for numbers, I’ll take back everything I’ve ever said about basketball and admit that the Knicks should trade Melo for Ryan Anderson…
Clyde’s recital of the “Sheed” crowd chant caught Breen by surprise and almost made him crack up on air.
Don’t call it comeback! Mama said, “Knock you out!”
Great end to the half. Time to heat up some leftover chinese food.
So Melo gets a… questionable whistle when driving to the hoop, leads the league in technicals despite not being as bad about complaining as Wade and Kobe (at worst as bad, not much worse) and also leads the league in offensive fouls. There’s starting to be a solid case that the refs have something personal against Melo, or maybe even the Knicks. Wonder what the Knicks would look like if they got Miami’s whistle…
the leage’s fine schedule for flopping is a joke. clearly, gerald wallace is not concerned. he didnt get touched by melo and fell back lke he was smacked in the face with a hammer
By the look of most of them it looks like he is doing that but at least one had nobody in position to rebound.lol
Now that quarter was more like it. Rasheed was actually pretty helpful.
Down four. Considering where it was with five minuted left. I’ll take it.
Oh he’s not perfect lol, he does drive me nuts with some of these shots, especially early in the clock. Still for $3 million a year he’s providing pretty excellent value, he actually has the highest offensive +/- on the Knicks.
I agree early in the season he was really rushing his 3s off transitions too. Like Novak their release are quick enough not to rush it.
He’s the only guy on the team who can drive and dish- Melo and to a lesser extent JR both get penetration but neither pass well off of the dribble.
Major subway fire kept us from getting to the game before the middle of the second. ..just in time for the comeback! Let’s go Knicks!
On another note: Brewer’s hand must be really jacked up because he can’t catch anything on the move.
Damn sounds terrible, everything ok?
This is where Shump would be awesome, he’d do a better job of anyone on this team of keeping him in check. Also what kind of fucking refereeing is this, Chandler gets mauled and Deron Williams is getting touch fouls?
They look a lot livelier on both ends. This could turn into a blowout.
This is some mind-boggling stupid defense by the Knicks. Helping and doubling for no reason whatsoever.
what the hell was I thinking
Maybe you were referring to the Nets?? lol
Our offense outside of Melo and Kidd is nonexistent
Seems like if Brooklyn goes into the paint there’s an automatic foul call.
I can’t believe we’re getting destroyed by Blatche
I must have got overexcited by a one point lead
J.R. playing his best basketball in a couple weeks while obviously laboring.
We’re probably gonna need a heroic effort by Melo in the 4th, the pick and roll isn’t there and no one else is stepping up
Damn JR looks like he’s wearing clown shoes
I want JR Smith on my team. Win or lose tonight, he is earning big respect in my eyes.
He should be wearing an orange headband, cause he is one tough mudder.
JR!!
Humphries mugged JR Smith to get that offensive rebound!
Tyson Chandler needs to step up right now, the Nets are getting constant layups.
That pass by Detonate Williams Washington sick. It’s stuff like that that makes basketball such a beautiful game
Melo has ice water in his veins.
I dont even shoot this good with Melo in NBA 2K13.
Tense, high-quality ball game.
Good to see this in the city.
Felton simply can’t guard Deron. Too strong
Melo with the three! Down one time out Nets. (Apologies for the autocorrect clusterfuck up above).
novak +12 while only taking one shot, and missing it. the nets are concentrating on staying with him, which is freeing up space.
i thought deron has a government name that i was never aware of
Felton a little sloppy
Melo is killing it
Bad shot Ray
Felton might single-handedly cost us another game vs the Nets.
can’t knock the Melo tonight, that’s for sure. It’s crazy we’re getting killed by the one two combo of Reggie Evans and Andray Blatche.
Felton has stunk. Not sure why they don’t try a little pnr with Candler here.
Kidd may never come back to earth if he keeps taking threes when he is wide open.
Man, Ray is a real liability right now.
melo is a man possessed. as is ray ray. they are just possessed by different spirits right now
Ray is what he is. He shoots too much. He’s still better than the crap we had last year. The Knicks should probably have Prigs in right now, but I don’t know if a coach in the league would do that.
Felton is trying to match Deron. This is a mistake
Knicks defense is ridiculous late in games. 12 points given up this quarter so far. No more blatche layups every possession
Hope Wallace is ok.
What a clusterfuck last 30 seconds lol
agreed. i like rayay. he just has some moments that really test your patience. he should be in though, not prigs
Wallace has really played well against the a knicks.
i like how woody challenged jr to cover deron there. he did a good job
JASON MF KIDD!!!!!
KIDD!!!!
Bullshit van gundy
truth be told, shoul;d ve be no call. ball dont lie
Phew! What a comeback.
Wowowowowowow
Well…. That was exciting
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
This is a great time to be a Knick fan. What a win!
Not just a great shot by Kidd, but great ball movement by all of the Knicks to get him the open look.
What an amazing finish!!! Kidd can drink as much as he wants tonight lol
J Kidd 6-6 from downtown, that’s just sick
What a team we have.
I’m glad Ray didn’t try to do too much down the stretch. He had a couple chances to take a shot and instead he found a pass. Important.
The D down the stretch was stifling
Don’t forget the tip-out by Chandler, after getting dominated by Evans all night!
We get much better moving Amare in for Wallace
Jason Kidd is a beautiful golden god.
what a game, wow.
Chandler should get about a D tonight, destroyed by both Blatche and Evans and not challenging almost any drivers.
Kidd and Melo, though, wow. that one would have been easy to give up on, but Kidd especially just refuses to let them lose games. and nice effort from Sheed in the firat half when it was badly needed…
so, yeah, it’s a rivalry. that took 2 games.
Melo had 45 points on 24 FGA. His TS% for the game was .780.
He also only had 2 turnovers.
Kidd could retire right now and his number should be retired by the Knicks lol
Shumpert as an option on Joe Johnson early will help too, right now they can’t physically match up with both him and Wallace with Kidd on the floor.
Great win but way too many points in the paint given up- last year Chandler didn’t block a ton of shots but he changed plenty by rotating a just getting he arms up. This year he’s been way too passive when guards penetrate. I get that he was really trying to keep the Nets off of the offensive glass but if you’re giving up good looks at the rim there aren’t going to be a whole lot of offensive rebounds anyway.
if he keeps shooting like this, maybe he will keep the bandages on even after he doesn’t need them, like Rip Hamilton and his goggles. :)
So this why everybody hates Kidd.
What a proud, he-man effort, give JR his props, he gave us all he had tonite!
agreed on all of this, with the addition that if that is his primary objective on D, he should be getting more than four defensive boards (although I assume he gets no box score credit for any tipouts, something else I’ve never understood). that being said, he is too old to play 100 or so games at max effort, so I have no problem with him not going all out all year, but it would be nice if more people noticed when he held back, like tonight.
Maybe the Knicks should consider not treating JR’s back, that’s the best he’s shot the ball in weeks.
Nice road win, but the Knicks still allowed the Nets a .559 eFG%. That’s a disturbing number. The Knicks are 23rd in eFG% allowed and this will probably bump them down a few notches. They’re 16-5 so I’m not gonna kvetch too much but they do allow too many easy buckets. Last year the Knicks were 12th in eFG% allowed, so that’s some significant slippage.
Against a guard oriented offense like the Nets, Shump will be a big plus for us when he comes back
Hat’s off to the Nets as well, they are a rugged, hard-nosed team. I told my son that at times tonight, I had flashbacks to the old Knicks-Heat games. The game at the Garden will be another slugfest.
Was anyone even worried after Knicks where down 21-5? So strange that I’m actually expecting them to come back and win. Previous years I would be so disgusted and turn to another channel.
I’ve definitely got the case Jason Kidd man-love.
that was only the 22nd game in NBA history where a player had 6 assists, 6 boards, and shot 6-8 or better from 3 point range, second time for Kidd.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player_id=&match=game&year_min=&year_max=&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=&opp_id=&is_playoffs=N&round_is_ec1=Y&round_is_ecs=Y&round_is_ecf=Y&round_is_wc1=Y&round_is_wcs=Y&round_is_wcf=Y&round_is_fin=Y&game_num_type=&game_num_min=&game_num_max=&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c1stat=ast&c1comp=gt&c1val=6&c2stat=trb&c2comp=gt&c2val=6&c3stat=fg3&c3comp=gt&c3val=6&c4stat=fg3a&c4comp=lt&c4val=8&order_by=pts
The problem is that Tyson Chandler (and nobody else) is protecting the paint. Once a guard gets penetration, nobody is stepping in to contest the shot or take a charge. This team is making me miss Jared Jeffries.
Horse$hit JLin could get to the hoop and was “money” and at least he could make a Layup and big enough to play “the “2″”
J.R. Smith may be wildly inconsistent, but wow his determination and gritty ass play spoke volumes about him tonight. Woody has molded him into a absolute warrior.
Pretty scary if the Knicks can play as disinterested as they did in the 1st quarter, spot the other team an early 16 pt lead and still win on the road. Also something I hope they dont get into a habit of doing ala the Miami Heat.
I think Mike Woodson is the reason Tyson Chandler is playing such tentative basketball. I think he’s neglecting his rim protecting job to stay on court and set a bunch of hard screens. Screens are a huge portion of this offense, which make Tyson Chandler a very vital part on that side of the ball. Maybe when Amar’e and Camby get back, he’ll be back to destroying other team’s hopes and dreams at the rim like last year.
Anyone catch the Lakers highlights? U mad, Kobe?
That team is Bryant, Howard and a huge pile of suck right now. When Jordan Hill an Christ Duhon combine for 59 minutes, the system doesn’t matter.
he’s got to be more aggressive at times on that end too, late in the game he got the ball 20 feet away from the basket on consecutive possessions with his man sagging way back and no one within 10 feet of him, and he didn’t look to do anything but pass it again.
When we got to the game, I told my wife, “Oh good, the Knicks are down big. This means we will get to see a big comeback.” No joke. It was like the charlotte game. I never doubted them for a second.
Guess melo was jealous of Lin again…how dare he one up linsanity. Selfish arsehole smh
Let’s hope this same crummy-looking Laker team shows up at the Garden on Thursday. They had 18 turnovers and 11 assists tonight, shot 25% from 3 and 62% from the line.
They also got shredded from 3PT by a Cleveland team that ranks 20th in the NBA in 3PT% and allowed CJ Miles, he of the negative WS/48, to light them up for 28.
Well, okay, maybe not exactly “shredded” from 3PT but still, Cleveland shot 41% from out there. They’re 4-8 under D’Antoni now and they have a very hangdog look about them so I’m hoping for a NYK blowout on Thursday.
You know it is possible that Tyson could be a little gassed. He started and played heavy minutes for 66 games where much of the time it seemed as if he was holding our entire defense together by himself. He then played in the Olympics over the summer. The year before he played 74 regular season games for Dallas and then their entire championship run.
Idk sometimes it just seems like he’s saving himself. Generally in our games against stiff competition this year he has stepped up his level. I’ll be more worried about this closer to playoff time when I fully expect him to headbutt balls and perform human sacrifices at the rim.
I used to never feel worried when the Knicks got down big early back in the day because they were notorious for having amazing 2nd half comebacks (mostly due to their defense) under Riley and JVG. I still get annoyed and assume a loss due to their recent horrible history but Im beginning to feel pretty calm down the stretch of close games now. Weird feeling lol
IDK, but TJ Simers is great. Amazed such an exchange never took place with the “tough” ny media.
people saw that after the game tonight, right?
I forgot to mention that Hill and Duhon combined for 4 points in their 59 minutes. I think the Lakers lost because they don’t trust each other enough on defense.
The Lakers were paper thin with Pau and Nash. Without them? Its just a bad team. There’s no mystery to why they’re not winning.
Yeah, this is the first time since pre-Spree that I feel confident in them in every game. They are not going to win every game, of course, but I feel like they have a chance in every one of them and I definitely don’t worry about big deficits early in the game. I was actually trying to remember the last Knick team that I felt that about, and I think I’d have to go to 1996-97. You see, the 1999 team actually was terrible at close games during the regular season. It was only at the very end of the season and then obviously very famously during the playoffs that they started getting clutch wins. During the regular season they were awful. So I’d say that this is the most confident I’ve been about the Knicks since that great 1996-97 team. I think this team might actually be better than that one…but maybe not.
yes, totally agree here, and it’s probably harder for him to match up with guys like Blatche and Evans than someone with a more traditional center’s body/game like Lopez. also he knows Dwight Howard is coming next game and those guys have talked a bit in the media about the DPOY award since they last faced each other.
so again I have no problem with his occasional weak effort, I just wish more people recognize it when it occurs (and the C above is very generous, Melo would have gotten a F with a similar effort IMO).