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Friday, October 31, 2014

Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Nov 21 2012)

  • [New York Newsday] Carmelo Anthony scores 29 as Knicks cruise past Hornets (Wed, 21 Nov 2012 00:10:45 EST)
    Carmelo Anthony had it going early and looked as if he was headed for a 40- or 50-point night. But his services weren't needed for most of the second half and not at all in the fourth quarter Tuesday night.

  • [New York Daily News] Melo drops 29 points as Knicks top Hornets (Wed, 21 Nov 2012 04:00:49 GMT)
    Mike Woodson’s club is working on another winning streak after the Knicks defeated New Orleans, 102-80. At 8-1, the Knicks once again own the NBA’s best record and they head into Dallas tonight having won two straight after losing for the first and only time Friday in Memphis.

  • [New York Daily News] ESPN error activates coach Woodson (Wed, 21 Nov 2012 03:36:05 GMT)
    Just when you thought the Knicks couldn’t get any older. During the Knicks’ 102-80 rout of the New Orleans Hornets Tuesday night, ESPN.com’s box score listed 54-year-old coach Mike Woodson, 6-5, on the bench as a guard/forward.

  • [New York Post] Anthony pumps in 29 as Knicks rip Hornets (Wed, 21 Nov 2012 06:08:03 -0500)
    NEW ORLEANS â?? Maybe it’s a good thing rookie sensation Anthony Davis didn’t try to play on a bum left ankle Tuesday night. He might have been spared the embarrassment of getting torched by Carmelo Anthony in their power-forward matchup.
    Anthony dominated in the low post last night, scorching…

  • [New York Post] Woodson won’t commit to starting Amar’e (Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:49:58 -0500)
    NEW ORLEANS â?? Mike Woodson was asked the $100 million question at yesterday’s morning shootaround at New Orleans Arena. Will Amar’e Stoudemire return as starting power forward when he recovers from his left knee surgery?The Knicks coach danced around it like he was at a Mardi Gras parade…

  • [New York Post] Knicks go to Knight school (Wed, 21 Nov 2012 01:45:53 -0500)
    NEW ORLEANS â?? Bobby Knight, who coached Mike Woodson at Indiana, dropped by the Knicks practice facility Monday and gave the coaching staff a lecture on his philosophy, The Post has learned. Knight also taped a segment for Woodson’s TV show on MSG Network.At one point, Woodson showed the…

  • 57 comments on “Knicks Morning News (Wednesday, Nov 21 2012)

    1. billybaggs

      Amare has to come off the bench when he’s healthy….Woodson is the perfect coach to get Amare to realize this and if he buys in…look out, this team is going to be scary going forward!!!!

    2. ess-dog

      You’ve gotta hand it to Melo. The dude looks like a man on a mission this year. Of course, above average guard play will always help. .200WS/48 on top ten league FGAs – I’ll take that from my “superstar”. And our 3 pt shooting hasn’t even really kicked in yet!

      I’ll give ruru credit, this team looks like a top 2 seed in the east.

      And it’s weird seeing D’Antoni on the Laker bench, right?

    3. rohank

      Is there a number of technical fouls after which the COACH gets suspended like the players? How many does Woodson have already, 4?

    4. JK47

      It’s going to be interesting watching this Miami Heat team and how they perform for the rest of the season. They are not playing much defense at all– they rank 24th in Defensive Rating. They don’t rebound well– 28th in offensive rebounding and 20th in defensive rebounding. They’re small– the closest thing they have to a true big man is Chris Bosh at 6’10”. They have two other guys who are 6’10”– and one is a wing (Rashard Lewis) and the other never plays (Jorts).

      On a team that already had plenty of 3-point specialists, their major offseason acquisitions were more 3-point specialists. They’re terrific on offense, but they’re mediocre all around defensively– 25th in eFG% allowed, 15th in defensive TOV%, 20th in DRB%, 16th in FT/FGA.

      I’m sure they’ll kick it up several notches when the playoffs start but they are far from invincible.

    5. Z-man

      This has been a great stretch and a fantastic start to the season, even better than my very optimistic outlook going in. However, I’m not going to get TOO excited until we start playing real games Miami and Boston (and to a lesser extent, the Bulls and Nets.) While we have clearly proven that we are a force to be reckoned with in the regular season, the Heat and Celts are unconcerned about their regular season record, they both are in tinkering mode and know that it’s all about the playoffs. They’ll be up for games against us, though, count on it! Especially the Heat after what we did to them opening night.

      I have to wonder how big of a break it was to have that Nets game postponed, maybe we’re 6-3 instead of 8-1?

    6. Eternal OptiKnist

      I’m unapologetically excited. I hate when people say “its too early”…so I’m not supposed to get excited when things are good because i have to wait to be miserable when the bottom drops out?? I’m not stupid, i know its only 9 games but i’m friggin thrilled. If we can stay healthy i dont see why we cant contend. Everything thats driving our wins are sustainable..d.efense, protecting the ball and taking good shots. We’ve won even when our 3s arent falling. Our lone weakness on rebounding seems to be being addressed…there’s nothing to complain about right now. We’re well rested for what will be the toughest game on this trip tonight and by Friday could be 4-1 1/3rd of the way through our western cnf road games. Here’s to not “taking it easy because its early”….GO KNICKS!

    7. lavor postell

      Z-man:
      This has been a great stretch and a fantastic start to the season, even better than my very optimistic outlook going in. However, I’m not going to get TOO excited until we start playing real games Miami and Boston (and to a lesser extent, the Bulls and Nets.) While we have clearly proven that we are a force to be reckoned with in the regular season, the Heat and Celts are unconcerned about their regular season record, they both are in tinkering mode and know that it’s all about the playoffs. They’ll be up for games against us, though, count on it! Especially the Heat after what we did to them opening night.

      I have to wonder how big of a break it was to have that Nets game postponed, maybe we’re 6-3 instead of 8-1?

      Are you serious? The kings of the minnows over in Brooklyn? The team who got smoked in Miami by 30 without ever even looking like they deserved to be on the same court? The team who’s two best performances include a 4 point win at home to a Rondo-less Celtics team and last night’s 3 point loss at the Lakers who missed an ungodly amount of free throws without Steve Nash and just made a coaching change.

      Versus the Knicks who have played the league’s most difficult schedule so far and have 6 wins by double digits while looking dominant on the defensive end of the floor. It’s hard to be a fluke team when your portfolio of wins includes a 20+ win against Miami, a comeback 4th quarter win in SA where road wins are rare, 2 20+ road blowouts.

      Sure the Knicks might have some growing pains when STAT, Shump and Camby, but those additions when fully acclimated have the potential to even further raise our offensive and defensive standards thus far.

      The Nets can look forward to Sasha Teletovic maybe becoming a rotation player.

    8. d-mar

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      I’m unapologetically excited.I hate when people say “its too early”…so I’m not supposed to get excited when things are good because i have to wait to be miserable when the bottom drops out??I’m not stupid, i know its only 9 games but i’m friggin thrilled.If we can stay healthy i dont see why we cant contend.Everything thats driving our wins are sustainable..d.efense, protecting the ball and taking good shots.We’ve won even when our 3s arent falling.Our lone weakness on rebounding seems to be being addressed…there’s nothing to complain about right now.We’re well rested for what will be the toughest game on this trip tonight and by Friday could be 4-1 1/3rd of the way through our western cnf road games.Here’s to not “taking it easy because its early”….GO KNICKS!

      I’m with you, EO, I think we’re all conditioned as Knicks fans to expect something bad to happen. But this team is different, there are no gimmicks, no one is playing completely out of their heads, and it’s built on bringing it defensively every single game. Plus, we’ve built such a nice cushion record-wise that if we do falter (and at some point we will, for whatever reason) we’ll still be in good shape in the standings.

    9. Z-man

      @8 agreed. However, unlike in previous years, I actually have believed that this team is a title contender well before the season started and before most posters here. In that sense, I have already made the jump past worrying about playoff seed (barring disaster, we will surely be top 4 and maybe 1 or 2) and am already thinking of how we will match up vs. the Heat, Celts or Bulls (with Rose) in the playoffs. The road win vs. San Antonio was a good sign, but took a pretty heroic comeback. The opening day win vs. the Heat was also a great sign, but I think the next meeting will be much more telling.

      Don’t get me wrong, I’m absolutely giddy, but come playoff time, if we lose in the first round or bet waxed in the second round, I will consider the season a huge disappointment. What I’m saying right now is that I haven’t yet seen anything that convinces me that we are destined for the finals, but beating the Heat and the Celts would go far in making me feel less apprehensive aboth that. On the other hand, if we get waxed by the Heat and then lose to the Celts at home on a buzzer-beater by Pierce, it would definitely have an impact on my confidence.

    10. Z-man

      And I agree, the Nets are way overrated, but still want to see how we play against them as another measuring stick.

    11. Eternal OptiKnist

      I dot think the nets are terribly overrated. Good teams beat the teams they should beat; they’re playing their schedule and winning. Its still early in the season and a new team like that should only get more comfortable. I’m just happy about what we’re doing regardless of them.

    12. ruruland

      J.R. Smith played in a Knicks offense run by Jeremy Lin last season.

      This year, he’s playing in an offense run by Raymond Felton.

      So, which point guard is better? To Smith, that’s an easy one to answer.

      Listen to the complete interview:

      The Knicks guard said in an interview Tuesday on “The Michael Kay Show” on ESPN New York 98.7 FM that Felton is much more adept at running the pick and roll — a staple of New York’s offense.

      “He’s so much (more) dynamic in the pick and roll than Jeremy was last year,” Smith said. “Just finding the lob and finding the guys in the corner for a 3 … not always just looking for his shot.”

      The Knicks are off to an 8-1 starting entering Wednesday’s game against Dallas, and Felton has been a big reason behind the team’s success. He had 15 points, six assists and one turnover in 30 minutes in the Knicks’ win over the Hornets on Tuesday. Felton and Jason Kidd have provided stability at the point for the Knicks, who have the lower per-game turnover mark in the league.

      Turnovers are an area in which Lin struggled last season, even while leading the Knicks to a 10-3 mark during his remarkable “Linsanity” run last February.

      Smith said Felton, who was brought in to replace Lin, is “so much different” from his predecessor at the point.

      “Ray is out there, he’s attacking, attacking, attacking,” Smith said. “He’s attacking to look like he’s scoring and he’s finding other people open as well as attacking to actually score.”

      Smith also touched on other Knicks-related topics with Kay and Don LaGreca:

    13. ruruland

      ON THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MIKE WOODSON AND MIKE D’ANTONI: “All (Woodson) talks about is defense, defense, defense, [and] wanting to keep teams under 25 points per quarter. Our goal as players is under 20 per quarter.”

      “When coach D’Antoni was here, our thing was we should score over 120 points per game. And I think that right there is the total difference,” Smith added.

      “(Woodson) was there with Larry Brown. They won a championships solely on their defense (with the Pistons in 2004),” he said. “I think it’s a totally different situation.”

      ON JASON KIDD’S IMPACT: “Jason Kidd has been unbelievable. I’ve always been a fan of his, just his play how he keeps his composure. But I never really knew how much he actually knew about the game or how much he actually could teach someone one … He taught me so much about … finding the open man, bringing the right attitude to the court every night. He’s an ultimate pro and definitely a Hall of Famer.”

    14. ruruland

      Melo and JR wanted to be coached by a defensive-minded coach.

      Did anyone ever find it a tad ironic given the accepted meta-narrative that Melo has preffered playing for a disciplinarian as opposed to a free-style, gimmick defense coach, and a hands-off, defensive-low-priority coach??

    15. Eternal OptiKnist

      ruruland: ON THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN MIKE WOODSON AND MIKE D’ANTONI: “All (Woodson) talks about is defense, defense, defense, [and] wanting to keep teams under 25 points per quarter. Our goal as players is under 20 per quarter.” “When coach D’Antoni was here, our thing was we should score over 120 points per game. And I think that right there is the total difference,” Smith added. “(Woodson) was there with Larry Brown. They won a championships solely on their defense (with the Pistons in 2004),” he said. “I think it’s a totally different situation.” ON JASON KIDD’S IMPACT: “Jason Kidd has been unbelievable. I’ve always been a fan of his, just his play how he keeps his composure. But I never really knew how much he actually knew about the game or how much he actually could teach someone one … He taught me so much about … finding the open man, bringing the right attitude to the court every night. He’s an ultimate pro and definitely a Hall of Famer.”

      We get it, Carmelo..Lin and D’Antoni were satan’s minions. Just enjoy the success.

    16. ruruland

      Eternal OptiKnist: We get it, Carmelo..Lin and D’Antoni were satan’s minions. Just enjoy the success.

      Those are JR Smith’s quotes.

      I find it puzzling MDA is still held in high regard here, and I find it repulsive the way he’s being talked about in LA.

    17. jon abbey

      D’Antoni is certainly not still held in high regard here, and I think the bloom is quickly coming off the Lin rose too.

    18. Nick C.

      jon abbey:
      D’Antoni is certainly not still held in high regard here, and I think the bloom is quickly coming off the Lin rose too.

      I was a big … “they shouldave kept Lin, Melo’s being mean to him, wawawa guy”. I stopped caring about two games into the season. Now I can’t help remembering guys like Bubbles Hawkins when the name comes up. Maybe he is/was the Shane Spencer-Kevin Maas-Joba Chamberlain (there I said it) of the Knicks.

    19. ruruland

      jon abbey: D’Antoni is certainly not still held in high regard here, and I think the bloom is quickly coming off the Lin rose too.

      There are so many things that bother me about MDA that I don’t want to even get into.

      I have issues with Lin, but I still think he’s far more likeable than MDA, even if they both seem to do the best they can to maintain their well-crafted images.

      I will never bring myself to openly rooting against MDA, not when I’d like to see Steve Nash have some late-career success, but I have to admit I would really enjoy seeing him fail.

      Lin? Not so much. And I think coming back down to the earth was necessary if he even has a chance at developing into a quality starting point guard, which looks more questionable with each game.

    20. ess-dog

      Let’s Not get carried away. The narrative always was: the Heat will reign supreme for 3-4 years and the Knicks will never get over the hump with an Amare/Melo team. People were excited about Lin because he’s YOUNG and would make a nice piece in a trade or whatever team we have when he matures. A Lin/Shump backcourt is a nice backcourt of the future.
      While Felton and Kidd have no upside at this point in their careers (although I will say that Felton looks a bit improved) they are clearly a better fit for a Melocentric team.
      What JR says us somewhat true: Lin’s value is driving the paint to score/dish/get fouled. At his age, there’s no reason he can’t eventually master the pick and roll (he’s smart enough.)
      He’s clearly ideal for a D’Antoni offense, in fact hell probably be traded to the Lakers when Nash retires.
      Look, we’re off to a great start, but I’m with Z-man. Let’s see how we play in pressure games against elite east teams. I think we’ve caught up with Boston and passed Indy, but the Heat are still the Heat. At least we probably won’t see them in the first round this year, lol.

    21. ruruland

      ess-dog: Let’s Not get carried away. The narrative always was: the Heat will reign supreme for 3-4 years and the Knicks will never get over the hump with an Amare/Melo team. People were excited about Lin because he’s YOUNG and would make a nice piece in a trade or whatever team we have when he matures. A Lin/Shump backcourt is a nice backcourt of the future.While Felton and Kidd have no upside at this point in their careers (although I will say that Felton looks a bit improved) they are clearly a better fit for a Melocentric team.What JR says us somewhat true: Lin’s value is driving the paint to score/dish/get fouled. At his age, there’s no reason he can’t eventually master the pick and roll (he’s smart enough.)He’s clearly ideal for a D’Antoni offense, in fact hell probably be traded to the Lakers when Nash retires.Look, we’re off to a great start, but I’m with Z-man. Let’s see how we play in pressure games against elite east teams. I think we’ve caught up with Boston and passed Indy, but the Heat are still the Heat. At least we probably won’t see them in the first round this year, lol.

      get all of that for sure and I’m with you 100 percent in the sense of the rationale.

      But I think the counter-rationale is that you play for this window and then recalibrate in two years.

      The whole idea that I liked was that they were inclusive, but the more I think about it, I’m not sure if you could have achieved both maintaining Lin as an asset or future core piece while also maximizing the synergies on the current team the way felton has.

      Obviously, if this is an evidence thing, then we’re getting an entirely new perspective on it.

      But, I still think Shumpert is the potential all-star piece. I think he’ll need to play like a psuedo-all-star to beat Miami. He’s capable of breaking out like that.

    22. Eternal OptiKnist

      ruruland: Those are JR Smith’s quotes. I find it puzzling MDA is still held in high regard here, and I find it repulsive the way he’s being talked about in LA.

      I was calling you Carmelo; I remember when you started posting here we all thought you were part of his entourage but i think you may actually be him :)

      I’m just tire of talking D’antoni and Lin. Whether you wanted them to be here or not…they are gone. For the first time in i don’t know how long, we can positively look forward.

    23. jon abbey

      ess-dog:
      Let’s Not get carried away.The narrative always was:the Heat will reign supreme for 3-4 years and the Knicks will never get over the hump with an Amare/Melo team.People were excited about Lin because he’s YOUNG and would make a nice piece in a trade or whatever team we have when he matures.A Lin/Shump backcourt is a nice backcourt of the future.
      While Felton and Kidd have no upside at this point in their careers (although I will say that Felton looks a bit improved) they are clearly a better fit for a Melocentric team.
      What JR says us somewhat true: Lin’s value is driving the paint to score/dish/get fouled.At his age, there’s no reason he can’t eventually master the pick and roll (he’s smart enough.)
      He’s clearly ideal for a D’Antoni offense, in fact hell probably be traded to the Lakers when Nash retires.
      Look, we’re off to a great start, but I’m with Z-man.Let’s see how we play in pressure games against elite east teams.I think we’ve caught up with Boston and passed Indy, but the Heat are still the Heat.At least we probably won’t see them in the first round this year, lol.

      this is slightly revisionist, quite a few people expected Lin to be way better than Felton for NY this season and beyond. I also disagree that Lin has much of a future as any kind of impact player, I’m really not a fan.

    24. ruruland

      Eternal OptiKnist: I was calling you Carmelo; I remember when you started posting here we all thought you were part of his entourage but i think you may actually be him :)I’m just tire of talking D’antoni and Lin. Whether you wanted them to be here or not…they are gone. For the first time in i don’t know how long, we can positively look forward.

      snort.

      I won’t infer an insult there ;)

      I’m ready to not talk about it, but that seemed to be too provocative a quote to pass up reposting.

    25. jon abbey

      meanwhile, DAL is favored by 1 1/2 points tonight according to the Post. I’m counting on Chandler and Kidd to be extra fired up and focused for this one.

      Kidd by the way is 3rd in the entire league in WS/48, behind only Chris Paul and Kobe, ahead of LeBron and everyone else. NY actually has 4 of the top 14 players, Chandler is 8th, JR is 12th, and Melo is 14th.

    26. Eternal OptiKnist

      You’re a good man, Ruru and seemingly quite knowledgable. Help me with something i’ve been struggling with if you will. The thinking about Amare and Melo not being able to co-exist is well documented and the data suggests that that is true. That and the success we’re having now increases the clamoring for Amare to come off the bench. My struggle with this is that whether he starts or comes off the bench he is going to HAVE to share the floor with Melo for at least 10-15 minutes..the game is only 48 minutes long, unless you believe Amare has become a 12 minute a game player and can be completely separated from Melo. I dont believe that..a 25-min a game player? Maybe. So what i’m saying, is have him start..allow the man his confidence..they’re going to have to share floor time anyway..might as well be at the beginning of the game! Further, we dont know what Amare is yet; i’m so curious to find out what he’s capable of. Plus we’ve allowed Melo to prove he can get it done on defense….now we need to afford amare that same opportunity. Thoughts?

    27. Nick C.

      ruruland: http://donruss1982.blogspot.com/2012/02/before-there-was-jeremy-lin-there-was.html

      hahaha thanks Bates was the other guy I was thinking of. I think that was the last window before Bird-Magic came along. As a tween I received Sport Magazine and for the few months it existed Inside Sports which seemd to like doing articles on these sorts of off the straight and narrow topics. (FWIW the Reggie Jackson “straw that stirs the drink” quote was almost certainly from a Sport and not a SI interview.

    28. jon abbey

      Eternal OptiKnist:
      You’re a good man, Ruru and seemingly quite knowledgable.Help me with something i’ve been struggling with if you will.The thinking about Amare and Melo not being able to co-exist is well documented and the data suggests that that is true.That and the success we’re having now increases the clamoring for Amare to come off the bench.My struggle with this is that whether he starts or comes off the bench he is going to HAVE to share the floor with Melo for at least 10-15 minutes..the game is only 48 minutes long, unless you believe Amare has become a 12 minute a game player and can be completely separated from Melo.I dont believe that..a 25-min a game player?Maybe.So what i’m saying, is have him start..allow the man his confidence..they’re going to have to share floor time anyway..might as well be at the beginning of the game!Further, we dont know what Amare is yet; i’m so curious to find out what he’s capable of.Plus we’ve allowed Melo to prove he can get it done on defense….now we need to afford amare that same opportunity.Thoughts?

      if Amar’e starts, they will have to play more minutes together over the course of the game than if he comes off the bench. also, if Amar’e starts, Melo will be pushed back to SF, whereas if he comes off the bench, NY can get away with him at C sometimes.

      Nick, I remember that Reggie issue of Sport!

    29. Nick C.

      Lin, as noted, has not palyed or posted numbers as good as he did last season. Felton is playing like the Ray-Ray that the board was so crazy about first time around. So for the present Felton is an upgrade. I did not think the Knicks sans the pick-ups were ready to do much more than win a few games in the second round. It didn’t seem like a win now or next year (since these guys are near 40) was realistic, instead they should stockpile young players. I saw Kidd Camby Kurt and Sheed as exponentially declining players. So far (fingers crossed) my calculations were wrong. Playing like the best tema in the NBA makes them a finals contender in which case all moves are worth it.

    30. ruruland

      Eternal OptiKnist: You’re a good man, Ruru and seemingly quite knowledgable. Help me with something i’ve been struggling with if you will. The thinking about Amare and Melo not being able to co-exist is well documented and the data suggests that that is true. That and the success we’re having now increases the clamoring for Amare to come off the bench. My struggle with this is that whether he starts or comes off the bench he is going to HAVE to share the floor with Melo for at least 10-15 minutes..the game is only 48 minutes long, unless you believe Amare has become a 12 minute a game player and can be completely separated from Melo. I dont believe that..a 25-min a game player? Maybe. So what i’m saying, is have him start..allow the man his confidence..they’re going to have to share floor time anyway..might as well be at the beginning of the game! Further, we dont know what Amare is yet; i’m so curious to find out what he’s capable of. Plus we’ve allowed Melo to prove he can get it done on defense….now we need to afford amare that same opportunity. Thoughts?

      I’m going to have an actual post that should be up on the site by Monday or so on this issue.

      … I’ve been working on some analysis similar to what I did with Lin a few months back (which by the way, was the one thing I was totally off on the last year or so, especially when it came to Lin’s off-ball abilities. Just WAY off.), but looking at certain synergies and some other cool stuff like how Amar’e performed with Woodson and some other historical context that I think needs to be applied when trying to understand this ostensible dilemma.

    31. ruruland

      jon abbey: if Amar’e starts, they will have to play more minutes together over the course of the game than if he comes off the bench. also, if Amar’e starts, Melo will be pushed back to SF, whereas if he comes off the bench, NY can get away with him at C sometimes. Nick, I remember that Reggie issue of Sport!

      Right, but there are a bunch of other things that need to be considered. Just think about all the permuations a true 11 man rotation has.

      I think the Knicks need to have an 11 man rotation to maximize the team;s potential, which can go down to 10 if Woodson’s doesn’t get incredible effort in those shortened minutes…

      Trying to maximize an 11 man rotation is going to take incredible micro-managment and precision in substitutions. And naturally there will be times where the flow of the game and guys playing particularly well will change it.

      The most important thing is that Amar’e needs to maximize his minutes with Felton and either Camby or Wallace.

      Let’s remember that it’s not Melo who Amar’e struggles with, it’s Chandler (though this will change a lot, too, with the Knicks newfound playmaking and half-court sets).

      One of my favorite hypothetical lineups is Felton, Shumpert, Smith, Amar’e, Camby.

      Now, can you imagine bringing those five guys off the floor and replacing them with a Kidd, Brewer, Melo, Wallace, Chandler lineup???

      It’s virtually unprecedented to have the potential of two elite 5 man units on the same team.

      Managing the crossover of thse ideal synergies will be somewhat of a challenge. there is some room to go wrong.

    32. ruruland

      Nick C.: hahaha thanks Bates was the other guy I was thinking of. I think that was the last window before Bird-Magic came along. As a tween I received Sport Magazine and for the few months it existed Inside Sports which seemd to like doing articles on these sorts of off the straight and narrow topics. (FWIW the Reggie Jackson “straw that stirs the drink” quote was almost certainly from a Sport and not a SI interview.

      Interesting. There’s a journalism project I’m involved with where we’re trying to recapture that form. It’s much harder to do today in a way that’s sustainable, both from a business model perspective of course but also from simply trying to create these stories and getting through all of the access firewalls.

      There are a lot of bad attempts at Gonzo, or even embedding, that it makes it a real challenge to pitch people who are self-interested in giving up privacy and being vulnerable to image distortion.

    33. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      It’s not about Amar’e being unable to coexist with Carmelo. It’s about him being not good at basketball.

    34. Nick C.

      ruruland: Interesting. There’s a journalism project I’m involved with where we’re trying to recapture that form. It’s much harder to do today in a way that’s sustainable, both from a business model perspective of course but also from simply trying to create these stories and getting through all of the access firewalls. There are a lot of bad attempts at Gonzo, or even embedding, that it makes it a real challenge to pitch people who are self-interested in giving up privacy and being vulnerable to image distortion.

      I was in inverterate magazine saver but I am certain that my mom long since had me toss them in the trash. It was the late 70s so life by definition was a bit freewheeling. Stevie Nicks, an in form Aerosmith and Van Halen, disco, smoking, pre-Aids, an 18 year old drinking age …

    35. ess-dog

      jon abbey: this is slightly revisionist, quite a few people expected Lin to be way better than Felton for NY this season and beyond. I also disagree that Lin has much of a future as any kind of impact player, I’m really not a fan.

      I still think Felton will fall to earth like he did 2 years ago, but you never know. And his defense is better than I remember, probably thanks to Woodson.

      I think the absolute most anyone thought of Lin was a “very low level all star” which I equate with David Lee. I don’t think that is revisionist and it’s still a possibility for Lin. Of course, without the refs on his side, Lin is a much less effective player. In retrospect, the 25 mil does seem like a legit deal breaker.

    36. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: It’s not about Amar’e being unable to coexist with Carmelo. It’s about him being not good at basketball.

      What do you make of the fact that he had a +.600 TS to finish the final 20 or so games of the season including playoffs, and that that stretch coincided with the purported health and psychological improvements stemming from the time off he took with his brother’s death that also led to significant weight loss (back to his normal playing weight?)

      What do we make of the fact that his resurgence also coincided with at least competent pick and roll play?

      How do you view the facts that Amar’e’s finishing and efficiency in virtually all play scenarios stayed roughly the same from his Phoenix days, expect for spot-up shooting, which went way down?

      Does it make sense that a player with rapidly declining physical abilities should not suffer declines at the rim or paint, but in jump-shooting?

      How do you view these factors that drove down Amar’e’s efficiency?

      Do you believe it’s unlikley that Ama’re inability to get any shots up last off-season could have perhaps affected his jump shot, and should the three months of two-a-days, along with possible skill improvements, at least give Amar’e a good chance of returning to a semblance of the highly-efficient guy he was with the Suns and prior to the Billups trade, especially when we factor lower usage???

      Or do we just look at his TS% two year trend, disregard usage and everything else I just mentioned, go with the uncontextualized age decline boilerplate analysis, and move on?

    37. ruruland

      Nick C.: I was in inverterate magazine saver but I am certain that my mom long since had me toss them in the trash. It was the late 70s so life by definition was a bit freewheeling. Stevie Nicks, an in form Aerosmith and Van Halen, disco, smoking, pre-Aids, an 18 year old drinking age …

      Before me man, but I’d trade the milieu of the generation I grew up in for the 60s-80s any time. 90s were okay I guess but I was still pre-high school.

    38. JK47

      Amar’e can be a good asset for this team if they use him right.

      Get him some minutes at C when you can, get him involved in the pick and roll, use him to create mismatches, discourage him from driving too much and thus turning the ball over. The field goal attempts he will be taking will mostly be coming from guys like Felton and Sheed, so it’s not like he’s going to kill the offensive efficiency.

      I’m not a big fan of the man’s game because he is a pretty limited player, but the things that Amar’e CAN do can be very valuable to this team.

    39. nicos

      I think Amar’e can be successful with the starters in this offense- He’d basically be a much more active, efficient Ronnie Brewer. While Brewer has been good from 3 point range thus far, he hasn’t really spaced the floor because nobody guards him out there (and most teams are already guarding Melo with a three so it’s not like the coverages on Melo will change that much). I don’t know how many times Amar’e flashed into the paint last year and waived his arms around while Fields pump faked or TD just held the ball- that’s not going to happen with Kidd and Felton.
      Obviously, defense is a huge issue- even if Amar’e plays like he did under Woodson, you’re still swapping Amar’e for Melo at the four and Melo for Brewer at the three- both real net loses. I still think it works out in the Knicks favor as long as he’s only getting 10-15 minutes a night with the starting unit- they should be better offensively, worse defensively but even if he’s net minus in those minutes he should pay enough dividends by giving the second unit a real offensive focus to outweigh what he gives back with the starters.

    40. Z-man

      http://knickerblogger.net/knicks-morning-news-tuesday-jul-31-2012/

      I went back to read some of the threads from the summer, especially about the Lin non-signing. This one made for particularly entertaining reading!

      What it came down to, imo, is what ess alluded to in @22. This is the year that the Amare-Melo-Chandler experiment is put to the test. Lin was too much of a gamble at the price he commanded, especially when Felton was available on the cheap. I disagree with ess in his assertion that Felton has no upside at his age (he’s 28; look at Pierce’s career pre- and post-28; look at Nash’s career pre- and post-28. Even Kidd dramatically improved his 3-pt shooting at age 28. While he doesn’t have the upside of Lin, clearly he doesn’t have the downside either. Lin has pretty much sucked so far this year and would not start on nearly every team in the league based on his current level of play. Felton, on the other hand, has been a sollid, if middling, starting PG. He will probably never be an all-star level player, but what is he doing right now that is unsustainable? Can he learn how to get to the line more with JKidd tutoring him? There’s one area for improvement that would definitely affect his advanced stats in a positive way. I actually think that Lin will improve, but not sure if he will develop much in the next two years, it may take a while for him to get settled. He just would have cluttered up things around here for now. And clearly, neither Woody, Melo, JR or Chandler were big fans; even JKidd was lukewarm in assessing Lin’s approach to the game.

    41. Z-man

      As to Amare, the question for me is not whether he starts, but whether he finishes. Will he be on the floor during the last 5 minutes of close games? I think yes, and as such, why assume that we are better with only one of he or Melo on the floor? So I think Amare should be finessed into being the Kevin McHale (the player, not the coach or GM!) of this team.

    42. ruruland

      nicos: I think Amar’e can be successful with the starters in this offense- He’d basically be a much more active, efficient Ronnie Brewer. While Brewer has been good from 3 point range thus far, he hasn’t really spaced the floor because nobody guards him out there (and most teams are already guarding Melo with a three so it’s not like the coverages on Melo will change that much). I don’t know how many times Amar’e flashed into the paint last year and waived his arms around while Fields pump faked or TD just held the ball- that’s not going to happen with Kidd and Felton.Obviously, defense is a huge issue- even if Amar’e plays like he did under Woodson, you’re still swapping Amar’e for Melo at the four and Melo for Brewer at the three- both real net loses. I still think it works out in the Knicks favor as long as he’s only getting 10-15 minutes a night with the starting unit- they should be better offensively, worse defensively but even if he’s net minus in those minutes he should pay enough dividends by giving the second unit a real offensive focus to outweigh what he gives back with the starters.

      Right all of this nonsense about Melo needing the 4 to be effective.

      He’s playing against the team’s opposing best wing defender regardless.

      Also, Melo’s two most efficient scoring seasons came when he had the least amount of floor spacing.

      I’m a big believer in floor spacing, but Melo can operate in any offensive role you need him to, and some of the time with Amar’e on the floor that means Amar’e spaces the floor it means Melo spaces the floor, just as it’s happening.

      The Knicks are playing out of their skulls with the starting 5, and it’s hard to argue that Brewer is forcing his defender to the perimeter.

      Amar’e is actually, at least historically, a much better floor spacer than Brewer.

    43. Juany8

      I literally don’t care what Amar’e gives this team on offense, if he can’t defend, rebound, and pass consistently he doesn’t belong on the team’s core lineups. I do think Amar’e can have some pretty significant value to this team on the second unit, where recently the offense has devolved into JR isolations most of the game. This isn’t JR’s fault, there’s no one else out there that can draw a second defender in any meaningful way, so Amar’e would be a big boost over hoping Sheed can dominate people in the post. This team’s best lineup will be Kidd Felton/Shump, JR, Melo, and Chandler, Amar’e could play at his career best offensively and it wouldn’t help as much as having 4 capable passers/ballhandlers and 3 point threats. You don’t need two bigs to run the pick and roll with unless one can hit long jumpers efficiently, and does anyone really want Amar’e trying to guard Shane Battier like Ibaka did last Finals?

    44. ruruland

      Juany8: I literally don’t care what Amar’e gives this team on offense, if he can’t defend, rebound, and pass consistently he doesn’t belong on the team’s core lineups. I do think Amar’e can have some pretty significant value to this team on the second unit, where recently the offense has devolved into JR isolations most of the game. This isn’t JR’s fault, there’s no one else out there that can draw a second defender in any meaningful way, so Amar’e would be a big boost over hoping Sheed can dominate people in the post. This team’s best lineup will be Kidd Felton/Shump, JR, Melo, and Chandler, Amar’e could play at his career best offensively and it wouldn’t help as much as having 4 capable passers/ballhandlers and 3 point threats. You don’t need two bigs to run the pick and roll with unless one can hit long jumpers efficiently, and does anyone really want Amar’e trying to guard Shane Battier like Ibaka did last Finals?

      But Amar’e is always going to rebound better than the small player he’s replacing in a more conventional lineup.

      He will not defend as well as Brewer of course, but there is strong reason to believe he’ll be much improved defensively.

      I think he starts, and with Melo he’ll play when both passing guards are in the lineup. he’ll be the feature piece when Smith is in the game in place of Kidd, who gives the Knicks a high pnr threat and a side pnr threat. I think it will be an Amar’e-cntric attack for 10-15 a game, which is just the offensive versatility this team needs and currently lacks.

    45. Juany8

      By the way, pretty hilarious that the specific post Z-man linked to about Lin also had a big argument about how Harden would fare as the main player on a team. Considering I’m pretty sure he’s actually gotten better since last year (young players tend to improve and all) I hate to see what would have happened if Harden had been a main option all year. He gets enough turnovers as it is…

    46. Juany8

      ruruland: But Amar’e is always going to rebound better than the small player he’s replacing in a more conventional lineup.

      He will not defend as well as Brewer of course, but there is strong reason to believe he’ll be much improved defensively.

      I think he starts, and with Melo he’ll play when both passing guards are in the lineup. he’ll be the feature piece when Smith is in the game in place of Kidd, who gives the Knicks a high pnr threat and a side pnr threat. I think it will be an Amar’e-cntric attack for 10-15 a game, which is just the offensive versatility this team needs and currently lacks.

      I fully agree about running an Amar’e centric offense for 10-15 minutes, but that’s not the argument.

      Actually Amar’e is high on my list of players who’s rebounding numbers overstates his rebounding impact (Javale McGee is number 1 in this category and Tim Duncan is number last, which is a good thing. First of all, because of all the issues with game strategy about whether or not it’s smart to go for offensive rebounds, I’m only focusing on defensive rebounds. By that measure, Melo has actually been just as good as Amar’e has been, both get around 6 a game at PF, and Brewer is a good defender. My problem, however, is that Amar’e is incredibly bad and lazy about boxing out, and so he often surrenders easy offensive rebounds. Basically, someone like Tim Duncan or Chandler will box out and try to tip the ball so that their team gets the rebound more often, even when they can’t get to it. Amar’e gets less rebounds than those guys, AND he gives up rebounds the other team wouldn’t get if he simply boxed out. He might put up a roughly respectable number of rebounds, but he hurts the team overall on that end. McGee is the worst player in the league about this, he puts up awesome numbers but his teams are terrible at rebounding with him playing

    47. The Honorable Cock Jowles

      ruruland: What do you make of the fact that he had a +.600 TS to finish the final 20 or so games of the season including playoffs, and that that stretch coincided with the purported health and psychological improvements stemming from the time off he took with his brother’s death that also led to significant weight loss (back to his normal playing weight?)

      What do we make of the fact that his resurgence also coincided with at least competent pick and roll play?

      How do you view the facts that Amar’e’s finishing and efficiency in virtually all play scenarios stayed roughly the same from his Phoenix days, expect for spot-up shooting, which went way down?

      Does it make sense that a player with rapidly declining physical abilities should not suffer declines at the rim or paint, but in jump-shooting?

      How do you view these factors that drove down Amar’e’s efficiency?

      Do you believe it’s unlikley that Ama’re inability to get any shots up last off-season could have perhaps affected his jump shot, and should the three months of two-a-days, along with possible skill improvements, at least give Amar’e a good chance of returning to a semblance of the highly-efficient guy he was with the Suns and prior to the Billups trade, especially when we factor lower usage???

      Or do we just look at his TS% two year trend, disregard usage and everything else I just mentioned, go with the uncontextualized age decline boilerplate analysis, and move on?

      No. Let’s just contextualize it so it fits your narrative, and move on.

    48. ruruland

      Juany8: By the way, pretty hilarious that the specific post Z-man linked to about Lin also had a big argument about how Harden would fare as the main player on a team. Considering I’m pretty sure he’s actually gotten better since last year (young players tend to improve and all) I hate to see what would have happened if Harden had been a main option all year. He gets enough turnovers as it is…

      yep.

    49. ruruland

      The Honorable Cock Jowles: No. Let’s just contextualize it so it fits your narrative, and move on.

      Do you believe personnel evaluators should only look at the prior year’s WP/48 normalized for future age when making personnel decisions?

      Or do you think that for the 30% of players that fall outside one standard deviation of where they should be or where they were previously projected to be, is it a personnel evaluators job to try to understnad the confluence of factors that led to their projection being wrong?

      And what about anticipating the 30% of players who will fall at least one standard deviation outside of their preseason projection that’s based on past performance?

      Are those also always random, or are there ways to anticpate those changes?

      It’s scary to go down that rabbit hole, the whole idea that basketball is a complex team game where players have roles and there are interaction effects oh my, but maybe you should trust when Morey says that basketball cannot be understand by a single number.

    50. daJudge

      I think Melo is simply a better power forward than Stat. He’s like a power forward with nasty small forward skills. He should embrace that role, which I think he has done in spades. Melo is absolutely thriving at this position. I would really hate to see this tampered with by adding even the talented Stat. Stat would absolutely rule as a 5 off the bench, with a 1 that can run the pick and roll and a serviceable power forward (pick any one of the three). It really can become 2 pretty darn elite units. I just think trying to meld Stat and Melo is a mistake and the way this team is configured, frankly unnecessary.

    51. yellowboy90

      Can someone tell me why Carmelo is the only player who screens an area and not the man? The only time he does make the initial contact is when he dips his shoulder which is an offensive foul. It jus looks odd to me.

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